it's about social justice, and the cost never, never matters. christopher, great stuff. you guys on top of this like nobody else, and we appreciate it. >> thank you. charles: thanks, of course, at home for watching. if you can't see the show, dvr it. lou dobbs next. ♪ ♪ lou: good evening, everybody, i'm lou dobbs. we've seen other presidential candidates try what appears to be jeb bush's newest political strategy. the governor trying to revive his presidential campaign by attacking republican front runner donald trump. finish bush escalated his war of words with trump, releasing a scathing attack ad mocking trump's admission that he gets some foreign policy from cable news shows. and for his part, trump is calling out both jeb bush and his brother george insisting his strong immigration policies would have prevented the september 11th attacks had those policies been in effect at that time.

also tonight a big week for hillary clinton. she testifies thursday on the benghazi terrorist attacks. democrats on the select committee already launching an offensive on her behalf, putting out a helping think report that they -- lengthy report that they say proves clinton is not at fault and republicans arguing a total disconnect between clinton's state department and the security needs of the americans in libya. we'll have a full report for you. and clinton could be facing new competition in the race for the white house. sources tell fox news vice president biden is expected to announce he will enter the race. but there's some debate over when that announcement might come. we take all of that up with pulitzer prize-winning journalist michael goodwin and the blaze's amy holmes and legendary investor wilbur ross among our guests here tonight. we'll talk about whether a republican or a democratic president would be more likely to restore american prosperity.

our top story tonight, the bitter fighting between donald trump and jeb bush. trump arguing that his hard-line stance on immigration would have prevented the september 11th attacks. but bush says he has, quote, grave doubts about trump's ability to lead the country. he says trump talks about foreign policy like a reality tv star. fox news' chief political correspondent carl cameron with our report. >> reporter: had he been president in 2001, donald trump says the 9/11 attacks might not have happened. >> i am extremely, extremely tough on illegal immigration. i'm extremely tough on people coming into this country. i believe that if i were running things, i doubt those families would have -- i doubt those people would have been in the country. >> reporter: except most of the hijackers were legally in the united states. trump was defending his criticism of jeb bush for saying his brother did keep the nation safe after the attacks.

trump took it in a pre-9/11 context. >> i'm not blaming george bush, but i don't want jeb bush to say my brother kept us safe because september 11th was one of the worst days in the history of this country. >> my brother responded to a crisis, and he did it as you would hope a president would do. he united the country, he organized our country, and he kept us safe. and there's no denying that. >> reporter: bush went after the billionaire front runner's character. >> it looks as though he's an actor playing the role of candidate for president, not having a broad sense of the responsibilities of what it is to be a president. >> the commander in chief controls the nuclear arsenal and questions trump's fitness for office. >> i will be so good at the military, your head will spin. let me tell you, i'm a really smart guy. >> reporter: trump backed up on "fox & friends" this morning and focused on iraq. >> did he keep us safe at home? >> we have a major problem at home, i agree with that. but we attacked a country, and you know what we have for it

right now? zero. >> reporter: meanwhile, dr. ben carson clarified his claim that he would have avoided the war this afghanistan -- in afghanistan causing moderate arab state toss hand over bin laden in two weeks. >> i think that would have trumped any loyalty to people they had like osama bin laden. being able to use our drones and intelligence can and things of that nature, i think that's probably all that was necessary in afghanistan. >> reporter: the gop front runners are at odds with party hawks. >> the idea that the saudis and other gulf arab states would find bin laden if we declared energy independence makes no sense to me when trump says that he would have prevented this, 16 of the 19 hijackers were here legally. so i guess you would say nobody could ever come to the country. >> reporter: nine days til the next debate, and republicans are at war not just with democrats, but with one another. lou? lou: carl, thank you. carl cameron.

fox news has also learned the secret service is moving to provide 24-hour protection for republican presidential candidates trump and carson. it's rare for such protection to be granted before a candidate receives their party's nomination, but secret service making exceptions based on threats, and both campaigns reportedly requesting the protection after receiving threats. on the democratic side, hillary clinton already has secret service protection as a former fist lady. clinton is also scheduled to testify this thursday before the house select committee on benghazi. the clinton campaign accuses the committee of bias particularly after house majority leader kevin mccarthy said the committee's work had driven down clinton's popularity with voters. but congressman trey gowdy utterly dismisses the claim. >> i have told my own republican colleagues and friends, shut up talking about things that you don't know anything about.

and unless you're on the committee, you have no idea what we've done, why we've done it and what new facts we have found. lou: tonight we take a look at many of the facts that will be raised by that committee thursday. fox news chief intelligence correspondent catherine herridge with our report. >> reporter: in the year leading up to the september 12 terrorist attacks, 50 attacks took place in benghazi, including this assassination attempt on the british ambassador as well as an ied attack that blew a hole in the wall. the e-mails from ambassador chris stevens were only now released to the select committee. >> he even joked in an e-mail, maybe we should ask another government because our government isn't willing to do it. >> reporter: two months before the attack, this cable shows stevens requested another 13 security personnel to help him safely travel the country. the request was turned down by mrs. clinton's deputy, patrick

kennedy. security mismanagement has been investigated at the state department. >> patrick kennedy, who was the chief administrator of the department, has testified on quite a number of occasions about this, yet the pattern repeats, so one has to question what is really being done? >> reporter: a state department security officer later told senate investigators he was so short staffed that he had to choose between guarding the tripoli airport -- their lifeline to the outside world -- and sending a team with stevens to benghazi on september 11th. in august 2012 it had become so violent, there was an emergency meeting with the cia whose secret annex was across town. the conflict could not withstand a, quote, coordinated assault. yet like other requests, no security was added. and on september 11th when the attack came in three phases, documents suggest the local guard force blue mountain libya was operating without a valid

license because a contract dispute, and cia security told bret baier they were ordered not to immediately help. >> i gave you that 30 minutes back and some air power, would ambassador stevens and sean smith be alive today? >> yes. to me, without the delay, they would still be alive. >> reporter: a state department spokesman said today there was no gap in security. a, quote, depp i to ambassador stevens reports security personnel had dropped from 38 to just 9 at the time of his death, and stevens was in benghazi because clinton wanted him to establish a permanent operation there. lou? lou: hillary clinton's problems and failures at the state department continue to pile up. interviews compiled by the associated press say the state department was among the worst federal agencies on the issue of cybersecurity while she was in office. and the report says that the department has not improved.

the situation has deteriorated under john kerry. clinton's e-mails reportedly show she was aware of the state department's technology shortcomings but was focused on other issues including diplomacy. will he or won't he? the speculation is reaching a fever pitch in the democratic party. vice president biden apparently struggling to decide whether to jump into the race for his party's presidential nomination. could it be that the democratic race is about to get a lot more interesting in three sources tell fox news white house correspondent ed henry that biden has decided to run, he will enter the race, but there is no indication oz to when -- as to when he would kick off his candidacy. biden could make an announcement within the next 48 hours before clinton testifies on benghazi. other reports suggests he might wait until after she testifies and some just don't know what he will do.

i feel like i'm one of those. we're coming right back. much more straight ahead, stay with us. donald trump is jeb bush clash -- and jeb bush clash over the september 11th attacks, and just who is winning that battle? we take it up with amy holmes and michael goodwin here next. and lessons from europe and the middle east as they struggle with illegal immigration and border crises. it turns out walls and fences do work. why does the left say it won't work here? kt mcfarland here with us next. we're coming right back, stay with us. good. very good. you see something moving off the shelves and your first thought is to investigate the company. you are type e*. yes, investment opportunities can be anywhere...

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we're doing everything we can to give you the best experience possible. because we should fit into your life. not the other way around. lou: a new cnn/orc poll shows hillary clinton's debate performance has not significantly boosted her standing in the race for the party nomination. clinton now at 45%, that's still up three points since mid september despite everything that has befallen her. sanders at 29%, up five. biden is at 18, down four but not bad for a guy who's not a candidate. and in a head-to-head matchup, carson still beats clinton 48-47, well within the margin of error, needless to say but i wanted to say it. clinton beats trump by five points, 50-45, and more bad news for biden, 47% want the vice

president to run down from a 53% in august. i somehow don't think that will be persuasive to the vice president. joining us now, pulitzer prize-winning columnist michael goodwin. good to see you. and blaze tv news anchor, amy ohms. good -- amy holmes. good to have you here. she's at 45. this woman has been hit with everything but the kitchen sink and the barn door, and she is doing well. >> well, when you consider where she started, she's doing very poorly, and look at that -- lou: i just was going from mid september. >> look at that matchup with ben carson. i mean, lou, this is a woman who has been in public life nearly four decades, two of which you've covered. it's surprising to me that she isn't doing much better. [laughter] lou: you know, for saying it was only two, i appreciate it. whenever you want to join us, please do so. [laughter] michael, your thoughts here. there is nothing, it seems to me, to be touching this fundamental base that she has

that has cocooned her in terms of public opinion. >> i think that's right. i think that at this point it would take probably an indictment over the e-mail or the classified material to really shake those numbers further. this may be the bottom that she can, she will hit until some absent some big news event against her. lou: let's take a look at this appearance on cnn, i believe, in which she has -- i'm going to just describe it as she laughs at her, some of her problems. and here we go. >> your that'll e-mails. [laughter] through there are a lot of people who are not. [laughter] including fbi officials. [laughter] hooking into -- looking into -- lou: fbi officials. that seemed to sober her up for just a moment there, amy. [laughter] >> let's do an imitation cackle. lou: you throw back your head

and cackle, that's a stunning performance. >> it is a performance k and i'm wondering who is her stage manager encouraging this? i mean, that has been replayed in many news media, many different online platforms because it's phony, it's inappropriate, and what people really want are answers. so who's ever come up with this cackle response needs to be fired. lou: the select committee thursday -- >> right. lou: presumably, we'll get some of those answers. what do you think? >> i hope so but i don't think so. i think that mccarthy's mistake to say that this was a political exercise, essentially, i think has neutered the panel, frankly, at this point. yeah, absent big news coming out of there, i don't think anything she says or they say will make a difference without big news, maybe e-mails that show something really horrible on her part. but otherwise i think that we've seen the worst of the damage for her. >> from the panel but not

necessarily the fbi which has an ongoing investigation. lou: and i'm, by the way, not anyone who's hopeful about this fbi. believe it's compromised as well as the justice department, of which it is a part. let's turn very quickly to the speaker, the speakership. we're hearing nothing x the entire party seems frozen as paul ryan plays hamlet here. >> right. lou: he's disavowed any interest in it. what do you think? >> i spoke with a close friend of his from washington, dave, who says what he knows of paul ryan -- though he hasn't spoken with him recently about this -- is it really is something that he wants, and mitt romney just came out and said if paul ryan has future ambitions to run for the president of the united states, stepping up for the speakership would be a pretty bad idea. lou: how many people do you think are paying attention to mitt romney's opinion at this point? [laughter]

>> maybe paul ryan. it is a difficult job right now with the split in the republican caucus x not having a big enough majority to let people go and vote how they want because you can't get anything done. i don't e so any reason why ryan would take it unless he gets some assurances that he won't have to campaign for it, he'll get it, and he'll get support for a couple of things which i don't think is going to be forthcoming. hugh hugh i think i could almost -- lou: i think i could almost guarantee that isn't going to happen. interesting, we've got a president who finds it hard work to work with congress. it's just too tough for him, and we have got, apparently, a presumptive speaker who thinks, oh, my goodness, this would be difficult where i'd actually have to talk and compromise and bargain and deal. wow. american government has reached a peculiar point, hasn't it? michael goodwin, good to see you, thank you.

amy holmes, thank you. >> thank you. lou: is the mainstream media ignoring how effectively walls and fences all around the world aren't stopping illegal immigration? in 65 countries, imagine that. remember where you heard it first. cast your vote at loudobbs.com. scientists blasting california's governor, jerry brown, because he's linked the state's recent wildfires to, are you ready? climate change. global warming, i guess, you know, fires create heat, i got it. scientists interviewed by the l.a. times say there's not enough evidence to support such a claim, nor brown's assertion that fires are unpredictable and unprecedented. [laughter] good lord. some scientists have predicted a warmer planet could mean more fires, but only several decades from now, so these are irrelevant to their forecasts. and on the east coast, parts of central new york an early taste of winter.

up to 9 inches of snow creating dangerous driving conditions and dampening spirits one would think as well. the snow blamed for more than 50 traffic accident in syracuse alone. up next, a few thoughts on the president's struggle to be taken seriously. and hungary says its border wall is working just fine. why is the left-wing media ignoring the story? it's a global story. we'll take that up and much more. stay with us, we're coming right back. ♪ ♪ ♪ i built my business with passion. but i keep it growing by making every dollar count. that's why i have the spark cash card from capital one. i earn unlimited 2% cash back on everything i buy for my studio. ♪

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teenager claims brennan's account that he claims contains sensitive files including brennan's 47-page application for top secret clearance. obviously, authorities are taking his claims very seriously. a few thoughts now, if i may, on lame duck presidents and latter-year two-term presidents. in president obama's case, he is burdened by both. and there is the question now of his relevance or lack thereof. are there any world leaders actually taking mr. obama seriously with a little over a year left in office? do leaders of other nations even pay attention to him? last month at the white house president obama stood tall with president, chinese president xi jinping and said both sides would stop engaging in cyber attacks on each other. that was the big, breakaway deal. or as mr. prime president receny

said, quote, he ate my food. the more accurate expression, apparently, would have been president xi ate my lunch. cybersecurity firm crowdstrike reporting today since president xi's state visit, the chinese have stepped up their attacks. president xi laughed at obama's warning for china to, quote, stop throwing elbows in the south china sea as well, but the chinese didn't pause for even a moment, building artificial islands to further assert its territorial claims. while china is rapidly building up its military, and pointedly, joining with russia in massive joint military exercises on land, air and sea. the russian president mocked obama and the united states after the white house vowed, quote: very serious consequences if russia went into crimea.

a year and a half later, of course, crimea is now a russian province. well, president putin simply ignored obama in that instance and others. the so-called threatened obama sanctions turned out to be more puny than punitive. now putin has asserted russian innuance in the middle east -- influence in the middle east while president obama watches as american influence in that region declines. so, yes, president obama is becoming less relevant with each foreign policy blunder. but unfortunately, he is empowering civilizations' greatest enemies at this very moment. now our quotation of the evening on weak leadership. quote: a cowardly leader is the most dangerous of men. the words of author stephen king.e words are as scary as they are true. we're coming right back. restoring american prosperity, does it really matter whether our next president is republican or

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. lou: top news stories at this hour, new reports showing the

state department among the worst performing agencies in protecting its computer networks while hillary clinton was secretary of state. president obama signed the iranian nuclear deal officially putting the international agreement into effect. and secretary state kerry to travel to the middle east this week to try to end the violence in israel. second kerry will meet with prime minister netanyahu and palestinian authority president. well, people in border states in this country have had enough of the massive unflux of illegal immigrants they're demanding that elected officials do something about it. and there has been some response, at least by politicians. and of course i'm not talking about the united states, i'm talking about europe. in switzerland, the swiss' people party today celebrated the biggest win ever in a national election. all over europe there is a definite powerful palpable shift to the right in politics because of the refugee and

illegal immigrant crisis in germany chancellor merkel under fire for allowing almost a million million migrants into her country. merkel is now demanding that turkey secure its border to keep more migrants out of europe. merkel has a problem, so does germany. hungary closed its border with croatia, which was a primary corridor for immigrants and refugees to travel. they built a fence. this summer 10,000 people a day were crossing their border, yesterday 41 people did. hungary declaring the fence stopped them. there are, by the way, 65 major fences or walls at borders all around the world, and they work, including along parts, parts only small parts of the u.s. mexico border. joining me tonight fox news

analyst,let's start with the deal done with iran. how soon will iran get that $150 billion? how soon will -- do we just solute? >> well, they said they're going to use their money and support the terrorist groups in the middle east. i think what you've seen in the last two days, which is the increased violence in israel by the palestinians is an education that that's now going to heat pick up iran will get this money in different tranches but it's not even the money but all the contracts being led in iran where the international communities racing to do business. right where they want to be, they don't need to pa bide by the agreement because they got up front what they wanted. lou: up front meanwhile resolutions we're testing there on the screen ballistic

missiles, clear un violation and the president and his folks go to great lengths that is, well, the missile restrictions on this side and then there's the yo uranium enrichment on this side. the overall behavior, the largest state sponsored terrorism in the world and all unrelated in the mind of this president. >> well, one of the reasons they sold this deal, obama and kerry -- sold it to who? >> the united states. lou: they haven't sold it to united states, but not the american people. they may have sold it to the left wing people but not the americans who oppose it by 70%, not even the united states congress. >> yeah. where do you start with the inability. lou: what did she sold it to the un security counsel. of course it was their deal to begin with. >> but at the same time the deal was supposed to give us a

better relationship with iran. within 24 hours iranians start hooking up with russia with this new alliance to against our interest. so what good was this? it just faded away. lou: except $150 billion, an easy pass to a nuclear weapon for the iranians and this president will be god knows where doing what when it all comes to pass. >> well, and the other countries in the region have already said whatever iran gets, we want too. particularly because they now feel they're on their own. so i think what we're seeing is the early stages of a nuclear arms race in the middle east and not even iran getting nukes. not even the other countries. it's what happens when those countries and those governments get toppled. we saw during the arab spring it can happen in a week. what happens when islamic extremists take over. then you have bare hands in nukes. lou: i think it is fair to say in iran that is a problem. as we, you know, as we listen

to the house foreign affairs committee chairman ed say ambassadors are saying from the uae, they've got to have nuclear weapons. that's where we are. >> well, and remember they're so rich they can buy them. money is no object. this countries in the middle east can buy them from pakistan, other places, so you can see this happening very quickly. lou: and speaking of wealthy with $150 billion in additional funds, iran doesn't have to violate sanctions, they don't have to do any kind of enrichment, with the centrifuges, they'll grand jury out and buy the weapons that they want. always good to see you. thank you for being here. >> thank you. lou: be sure to vote on our poll tonight. the question is is the mainstream liberal -- make this left-wing media ignoring how ignoring the wall stopping immigration in 65 countries around the world.

when was the last time you heard this particular fact? it doesn't happen in the left-wing media, does it? cast your vote at lou dobbs.com. and law enforcement investigating after a scary motorcycle accident was captured on video. watch this. dash -- oh, man. laid it down right there. a car veers left on a rural north texas road crashing into that passing motorcycle. the motorcyclist, his girlfriend thrown onto the road, hospitalized with a broken wrist and of course deep arm lacerations and abrasions. the car's driver facing felony charges in the incident. he reportedly said, quote, unquote, i don't care when eye witnessed asked him what he was doing when he hit the biker. up next, legendary investor billionaire joins us to talk about the 2016 race for the white house and which party in his judgment would be more likely to restore prosperity.

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lou: on wall street stocks ended a choppy session moving slightly higher, the dow up 15 points, the s&p up a fraction, the nasdaq up 19. volume on the big board backing off a little down to 3.2 billion shares within it's a monday, though. china's economy doing violently better the way of growth in the third quarter but everything counts. 6.9%, 6.8 the expectation. a reminder to listen to my reports coast to coast on the network, and ceos to end the white house and he didn't want to talk about prosperity, he wanted to talk about climate change of course, already been a point of campaign trail and

will destroy thousands upon thousands of manufacturing jobs, the true unemployment rate, by the way, it's not 11% down, not the 5.1, more than -- about 20 million people still enable secure full-time work in this country who want it. and joining us now billionaire investor wilbert, chairman, ceo, one of the world's leading private equity firms and wilbert is one of the leading great americans in the world. great to have you here. >> good to be on, lou. lou: we've been watching all of this back and forth between the republican candidates, the democrats decide socialist -- but who really in your judgment right now amongst all the candidates, 15 in the republican party, five over there in the democratic party, which of them gives you the sense that it will be better under that person's presidency? >> well, i think each of them

has his own way of trying to articulate it. i think marco rubio has done a good job of articulating a lot of policies, i think jeb has done a pretty good job articulating some policies. on the democratic side, what seems to be a tug-of-war how far to the left can bernie sanders pull hillary clinton? lou: i would say he's inverting influence right now. it is extraordinary to hear a woman who is pretty well established as a centerrist in the administration of his party not as centrist as her husband, she has moved all the way to where many said she should have been back then. >> well, i view bernie sanders as her main policy advisor. . lou: well, i'm taking it that bernie's influence is widening within the democratic party, not narrowing. >> uh-huh. lou: so that's going to make for an interesting race.

you mentioned two candidates,nd. among those polling well, carson, cruz, trump certainly, and to a lesser degree fiorina her numbers have backed off as well. what do you think of those policies, are they sufficiently refined, articulated well enough for you at this point? >> well, i think donald has made clear that his policies are a work in progress at this point. so maybe by the next debate he'll clarify some of them. carson has put out some fairly thoughtful items, and he may very well be a sleeper in this thing. lou: well, we look at history, and history tells us that the republican candidate, the republican president does not do as well as a democrat in markets, describing about 40% better over time in terms of the growth of the economy a significant advantage again to

the democratic president. what do you make of that? >> well, i don't think that's been true under this presiden. lou: well, actually the market has been pretty impressive. >> you mentioned the economy. lou: yeah, well, we haven't had an impressive president on the economy since bill clinton really. >> right. lou: the extraordinary thing here is that we also have a debate about tax can you tell us, regulatory cuts, and a lot of the discussion seems to be off the market because the reality is our corporate tax rate is an effective rate on average of about 17%, not the 35.5 what the 35% -- and secondly the idea that tax cuts lead to growth is not true in all instances. george bush demonstrated that in 2001 and 2003. what are we to make and was this what are the republican candidates going to have to do? >> well, i think they awe ought to come with some new ideas. lou: amen.

>> if you look at what they're coming up, it's the same ideas maybe packaged a little bit differently, maybe tweaking with the numbers. but i haven't seen a really dramatic new economic policy initiative out of any of them . lou: well, knowing you, you might influence a change in that direction. wilbur, always good to have you here. >> thank you, lou. lou: the obama administration announcing today its expediting new to register drones. we need more government. by the way, recreational drones be amongst the first you must register. the government, the state wants to track down any drone pilots who collide with any airliner rules, when nearly a million drones are expected to be sold this holiday season, what are you going to do with government? unbelievable. up next.

some lottery winners in cash strapped illinois. have made getting paid off in i owe yous. and illinois' problem not newton land of lincoln, we take up the crisis of unfended pension liabilities that is pinching this country. stay with us passion. but i keep it growing by making every dollar count. that's why i have the spark cash card from capital one. i earn unlimited 2% cash back on everything i buy for my studio. ♪ and that unlimited 2% cash back from spark means thousands of dollars each year going back into my business... that's huge for my bottom line. what's in your wallet? when a moment turns romantic why pause to take a pill? or stop to find a bathroom? cialis for daily use is approved to treat both erectile dysfunction and the urinary symptoms of bph, like needing to go frequently, day or night. tell your doctor about all your medical conditions

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from a partner who knows how to make your enterprise more agile, borderless and secure. hp helps business move on all the possibilities of today. and stay ready for everything that is still to come. lou: winning the state lottery should be a happy time. except if you live in illinois.

the state's on going budget and pension crisis has forced the illinois lottery to issue i owe yous on winnings over $600. two winners have filed lawsuits in federal court, good luck with that, accusing the illinois lottery of fraud. seems like that's a pretty good case. illinois not alone in the pension crisis, however. kansas, alaska, connecticut, and kentucky all have less than 60% of their pension liabilities funded. joining us tonight, diana, and chief market strategist for united investors fox news contractor scott martin, good to have you both here. diane, let me start with you. illinois is not alone but is certainly taking primacy in the national spotlight by acting and behaving in such an irresponsible and i think shocking way to most people

across the country. >> well, the thing, lou, is that illinois has been out of money for years. the democrats who ran illinois for more than a decade did a really good job covering up how bad our finances were by raising taxes, borrowing money and running a deficit year over year and now we have a new governor, a republican, who says enough is enough, we have to be honest with people just how bad this problem really is. that's why you see the story. unfortunately, it's going to get a lot worse before it gets better but this is the pain that has to happen before the state turns around. lou: the state turns around. that's -- there's a hopeful note in your voice as you say that, dinah, but, scott, i have to wonder. are you hopeful? >> no. lou, i'm scared, i'm a resident of the city of chicago, which has another host of problems, and i think diana's right, there is light at the end of the tunnel, there is hope but here's the

problem. the state's running out of time to convince people of that. and if you're somebody of my age, a businessman that has a family that says a lot of problems both in the city and statewide how long do people put up with it and do they eventually maybe just take off and go somewhere else? . lou: diana, what scott's saying, i'm hearing from a number of states, we're watching a maximum exodus in high funded states in particular, we're watching states -- well, they're differentiating themselves right now and we're going to see what looks like a mass exodus cumulatively over the next five years and one decade of just simply people leaving states that are hostile to their economic interest. >> you're right and that's overseen in illinois. so get this, lou, by the time this segment is over, one

taxpayer and about $50,000 of taxable income will have just crossed the border to another state. will have just left the state of illinois. that is how fast we're losing people in illinois. but this budget crisis, this budget impact is a watershed moment. this is that opportunity that illinois has to change course because we finally have a governor who doesn't go along with the status quo. now, if we have yet to see what will happen but this is the first time in over a decade that taxpayers even stand a chance because this governor standing up and saying i will not pass a budget, i will not spend money that we don't have without significant economic reforms first. but there's hope for us, it's not been good but there is hope. lou: teachers, scott, i mean teacher unions are just -- they're digging in. they're not cooperating, whether chicago, you pick the state. they're demanding full payment of their pension, pensions

respective of the state economy, the state budget. is there any hope that we're going to see public employees change attitudes and direction? because it's going to come one way or the other, and i hate to be the bear of that bad news but things got to change. >> they've got to change soon, and i think the only way there's hope, lou, if something where diana said where people as in voters start figuring out there's some hard choices that have to be made here with regards to to the pension. see, that's the problem. i don't blame as many of the will d legislatures, even our mayor has tried to taken a harder line with the pension reform in the teachers union. but guess what happens? the public has lashed out against him. there's been a lot of outcry about that. so until the general populous starts figuring out that the lies that, say, the left is perpetrated with respect to covering up a lot of these mistakes and these unfunded labels have been fourth decades, until the public

comes around to understanding what really needs to be done here, i don't think that public perception changes. lou: diana, i think we should also note on this discussion governor chris christy, the governor of new jersey facing many of the same problems as illinois other states, in some instances even worse. he has managed to start pushing back those liabilities and to push back against fiscal irresponsibility whether -- and he's at war with teachers unions but some understanding what he's doing because of the way he's doing it is absolutely imperative. what are the prospects nationwide? >> this is a really telling year for a state like illinois that's negotiating a number of contracts. but hopefully governor chris christy or even scott walker in wisconsin provide a model. even look at detroit. the retirees in the city of detroit are not getting the pensions they thought they would. lou: diana, i'm sorry to do this, we're right flat out of time.

i appreciate it, come back soon, scott, join us again. we're going to be taking this up a lot in the days and weeks ahead. the and did you say russia headed toward military conflict, 66% of you say "yes." we thank you for being with us, join us tomorrow. good night. lisa: welcome to the best monday of the week. i am still watching larry david's turn as bernie sanders from saturday night live this weekend, a lot of people watching nodding their heads going, oh, nice, bernie sanders playing himself on snl but larry wasted no time going full sanders. >> i'm going to dial it right up to a ten. go right ahead. we're doomed. we need a revolution. millions of people on the streets. lisa: i loved it so much. and all larry had to do was exaggerate some of bernie's claims and tag on some classic larry