debate. fox business has a scoring opportunity. neil, maria and crew. let's show how to moderate a fair, balanced debate with real we thank you for being with us ambassador john bolton monday. have a great weekend. good night. >> would do you fear? john: some people want to be scared. these people wait in line to be frightened. in real life there is so much to fear. >> the worst drought in a thousand years. john: what should you fear? that's our show tonight. >> let's all have a great halloween. >> and now john stossel.

[applause] john: happy halloween. we celebrate halloween because 2000 years ago the celts in northern france the harvest season was wounded people were turned to wreck crops and do other mean things. they believe wearing costumes might scare up the ghost. i'm not sure how we got from that to children wearing costumes and wolfing down candy, but that's what we have in america today. we also have some seasonal businesses making millions now off of fear. these people in new york city are waiting in line to pay $30 so they can be scared by actors who jump out of the dark. the owner of the business called what manner says the idea is when customers get so scared they fall down. when you see someone hit the ground and crawl out we have three different chicken doors

and normally they pans. john: great, they had chicken doors? people paid to be that scared? why? margee kerr study sphere. she's a fierce sociologist at the university of pittsburgh peerage he works in the place in pennsylvania called scare house that's similar to blood manner and people pay because they want to be frightened? why? margee: our ancestors were those who had that drive to go out and explore new territories for new food sources and new mates and they were rewarded with survival. that's who we are. we want to go out and explore and feel that sense of anticipation because we know on the other side comes a lot of satisfaction and survival. john mackey be don't die. margee kerr research the science and has a new book entitled

scream, chilling adventures in the science sphere. the main science as i understand it is our ancestors heard sound, wrestling and may be worried that it was with the wind in one worried that it was a tiger and ran. the one that didn't run didn't get -- give birth to us. margee: exactly. time is done a good job is forming our threat requirements and her sensitivity that could potentially hurt us. so we are very sensitive to startle and very sensitive to things that have historically opposed a lot of harm. john: now the world is much safer so a lot of this quick response to fear isn't useful anymore. >> there are sort of a mismatch because a lot of the things that we are afraid of today are not the same as they were thousands of years ago. we are not very likely to be attacked by a bear. we have got all of these modern

amenities that protect us from natural disasters and the weather. john: we live twice as long as we did just 150 years ago. >> when people go out to haunted houses or scary movies it's an attempt to get to know that response because we are not really presented with it in our daily lives. john: i send print the producer out of the place down the street to the scare house where you work. >> our rules are simple. don't touch any act or is. are we clear? john: jumo printer is the owner of what manner. >> we have a lot of great things that happen here. people like things that are unknown to them, the excitement of whatever's coming at you. john mackey hires makeup artist to transform actors into scary clowns.

serial killers. >> has anyone ever cried? >> grown men and people who are used to watching scary things wouldn't be as frightened by haunted houses but you are finding it's different. >> especially that big tall i'm a man, they don't know i'm coming out and you see them fallback. it's the greatest thing. john: richie tried it. >> i haven't been afraid of the dark since i was a kid that will go into this haunted house freak me out? john: they freaked her out repeatedly. >> these people paid 30 bucks ahead to voluntarily be scared. why would you want to be frightened?

>> i don't know it's just a thrill. there's something exciting about getting scared. it it boosts your adrenaline and you were screaming because you know it's not real. john: we found only one person who did not like it. >> why did you come here tonight? >> i don't know. i wish i never did. it's the scariest experience of my life. john: c. was the exception. most people like it, this place where you were? margee: people who are going to haunted house probably know they're going to enjoy it and want that type of experience. john: when you call it a haunted house you don't really think it's haunted. margee: i have the study at scare house and we measure people before, during and after they go through this experience to see how it changes them. john: would e-learning? margee: for those who do choose that it's benefiting them.

they rate their mood before and afterwards and afterwards they feel better. john: why? margee: you have a chemical cascade preparing her body to be strong and endorphins and dopamine and all these things are feeling good periods for some people that could be a draw too. john: i assume scare house was totally new but in the 17th century i think we have a picture the russians were doing something similar? margee: the precursor to the rollercoaster and e there you have it. we have been seeking that feeling forever. john: when we in the news business talk about fear we access about things that might kill us. crime, terrorism and we will talk about that later in the show but i was surprised in times square most people did not ring up physical threats. what do you fear? >> what do i really fear? failure is a big one.

>> probably failure. i'm worried about not getting a good job. john: what do you fear in life? >> absolutely nothing but the socialist party. john: what do you fear in life? >> going to hell. john: in terms of safety before you go to hell? >> i really don't fear anything. we live in america. john: i like that attitude but moving onto the actual threat to our health and safety their stuff worth worrying about. car accidents, house fires, heart disease and when i asked people, no one mentioned those things. i mostly got answers like these. >> snakes. they are slimy and imus. john: the guy comes from behind. what do you fear? >> spiders. john: what are they going to do to you? >> i don't know. >> roaches.

the ones that fly. john: they are disgusting and scary. i'm not sure why exactly. there are little. why did they frighten me? anybody here scared of cockroaches? how about one of these tarantulas? can we bring that into the audience you're? let's test our fears. come out while. lyle fuente is an animal handler who provides creatures to movies and tv shows like snakes and cockroaches. he brought these. >> this is an albino boa constrictor. she's about six years old. john: do have a serious to why people fear these things? >> i think there are a lot of reasons. they have no legs and that's perplexing for us. they move silently. they don't interact like a dog. they don't run up to us and say

hi i'm really glad to see you. they just like you and they don't blink. john: you have theories? >> snakes are fundamentally confusing for our brain. we look at them and we think how is this even possible and it has a lot of the characteristics that are universally scary. they can move quickly and spontaneously. we can't really know if we can outrun them and if we can fight them. they are very disorienting to us so they represent a big threat. our response is basically to say i don't even know what to do at this. i should probably run away. >> i run away from cockroaches that you are going to take one of these guys out. >> sure. these cockroaches are from madagascar which is an island country and these are pretty special. john: i don't care where they are from. i want to know why are they so upsetting to me?

>> i think because they sneak into our houses at night and they move very fast when we turn the lights on in the eat rfid. john: sila ladybug doesn't dardenne doesn't sneak and we like ladybugs. >> they are pretty and we have been taught that they eat bad insects. john: you have it. discuss. >> a lot of the critters that we are afraid of evoke a feeling of disgust because they look kind of gross. we have very strong social scripts associating these kinds of things and with ladybugs you don't get that same kind of linkage to something disgusting. john: you are leaning that way too. lyle, thank you. you've will be back later with your creepy friends. >> in times square a number of people said they fear clowns.

>> i fear clowns and spiders. >> i don't really like clowns. john: why would people fear clowns? margee: clowns have traits that are fundamentally upsetting. first they have these painted on expressions. big eyebrows but their face doesn't always match that saider minds and we just don't really want to approach because we depend so much on being able to read out a language. john: these people in times square were not that unusual. lots of people fear clowns? margee: many people today are growing up with a clown is a monster. their first introduction to clowns is through a horror movie. john: in times square at least some people express more rational views. >> my biggest fear is drowning. >> i fear drowning and heights. >> falling down the steps.

john: drowning in falling down the steps, that does kill lots of people. 3000 drowning, maybe 12,000 died on stairs. and cars, 35,000. nobody said i get nervous about getting into a car. margee: it is very frustrating honestly. we worry about the wrong stuff. today we get in our car and we text and drive and we are not thinking oh my -- this is how it could end up being hurt. john: more than anything else. margee: that's when we should be sort of acting afraid. john: thank you. coming up the hysteria about crime. >> how many people have to die before we actually at? john: later in the show we will test the audience fears of

snakes, cockroaches. [applause]

i just had a horrible nightmare. my company's entire network went down, and i was home in bed, unaware. but that would never happen. comcast business monitors my company's network 24 hours a day and calls and e-mails me if something, like this scary storm, takes it offline. so i can rest easy. what. you don't have a desk bed? don't be left in the dark. get proactive alerts 24/7. comcast business. built for business. john: is kind of? crime is definitely up.

we are always told crime is increasing but it's not. the fbi just released the most recent crime data. crime has been dropping for years despite the recent claim that crime is up. the police are backing off due to a war on the police. crime continues to fall. the public doesn't know the truth says criminologist james allen fox. it's really true that people don't know. >> people get their perceptions of what's going on with crime based on the latest grisly story, later shooting or something on 8:11 news that the statistics which people don't pay much attention to say otherwise. we are as safe as we have been for almost 40 or 50 years. john: we hear the stories crime is up in baltimore. >> there are spikes. only because crime levels were so low. it's becoming the victim of your own success. take new york city. homicide is up 8% this year but

it's 35% lower than five years ago. john: what about the war on cops we are hearing about? >> in terms of cops being killed by citizens, the numbers are as low as they have been. john: put this chart at the shows 50 years. we have seen the steady decline as few as we have seen for a long time. john: the highpoint on that chart was prohibition. >> yes, obviously that created a dangerous situation in america. we are not like that now. it's still a difficult profession obviously that the risk of being killed in the line of duty is significantly less. john: do you feel safer in your neighborhood than they used to or are you scared? >> people think they are safe in the neighborhood but the nation is dangerous because they get their perceptions of their neighborhood from their everyday life. they get perceptions of what's

going on from television. many of these reports a school shooting start up and after later shooting hillary clinton made a campaign issue. >> how many people have to die before we actually at? john: act means gun control to her and people justified with headlines. mass shootings on the rise, mostly of schools but but there's no other than medicare. >> a number of school shootings, the number of homicides. john: you have a chart of this. school homicides are continually gone down. >> schools are safe. obviously once in a while we have these horrible episodes. this last one on the chart is newtown. there is no way we can eliminate the risk that their risk is very low. not increasing. but twitter and facebook, i asked you what you fear the most and you said terrorism.

jose tweeted in i fear i says in a domination plan. on facebook isis attacking within the u.s. border said terrorism is terrifying. >> since 9/11 there and 26 americans killed in jihadists terrorist attacks. 26 killed in 15 years, it's scary obviously. it's a constant threat to be sure and we can't ignore it. let's also not go around thinking that we are doomed if you're going to live your life like that maybe you should stay at home work out of your house or maybe go to school and take your degree on line because you don't want to ever put yourself in danger. we obviously, there are risks in our lives. crime and terrorism are not the big ones. >> we can make our country safer for our children but let's not scare them.

we are scaring them in schools with drills for the kids have to run away from the shooter. we are surrounding them with cameras and metal detectors. you have a bulls-eye on your back ache as we wouldn't be surrounding you with this equipment and security if the bad guy wasn't trying to get you. john: thank you criminologist james fox. i want to end the segment by pointing out that not every one i interviewed was ignorant. many people did know that crime was falling. his crime up? >> i think it's down. >> overall in the last 20 years it's been down. john: is crime up? >> i don't see it here. john: even though you are walking around half-naked in times square. >> i have been seven years and i've never had any problem whatsoever. john: that is a fixture in times square. he calls himself the cowboy.

in 17 years no issues with crime whatsoever. [applause] coming up more scarce, ebola, bacon and eggs and we will test their audience with that snake. [applause]

. >> california is running out of water. >> running out of water. >> the world is running out of water. john: who here believes that? who believes the world is going to run out of water? one hand. it's logical, there are more of us. we use more water. will we run out of oil? couple sort of hands. food? population keeps growing. we'll not run out of food.

stossel audience there, unusually smart, it is logical to assume as population grows and more people keep using water and oil that we're going to run out. world can't keep up with the world's growing population. and so said the author of the best-selling book the population bomb. he predicted famins of unbelievable proportions but james taylor of the heartland institute says it's nonsense. >> it is nonsense, they've been saying for decades, we're going to run out of water, food, oil, nobody holds them accountable. we have more of the resources than we ever had. john: hard to see how we have more. you'll explain that in a minute. paul ehrlich big best-selling book said we would have the famines long time ago. by 1975 some feel the food shortages will have escalated

into famines of epic proportions. others say it won't occur until the decades of the 1980s. >> rather funny especially considering since the 1970s crop production globally and in the united states has doubled. technology is what's allowing us to have abundance of food, water, you name it. john: i get how we can grow more food, what about the california drought and the claims we're running out of water. >> california is an arid place, we can find a drought, that is not indicative of the state of our planet. john: we can make more water? >> certainly ca. 70% of the earth's surface is covered with water. john: desalination, take the salt out. >> right. we have abundance of water, despite what the media says. john: look at what the experts have said about oil. >> we've got about 35 years of oil left in the world. we're going to rouvent oil.

>> 15 years from now the demand from oil will exceed the supply. >> we are running out of oil. john: today the claims are so absurd, stephen colbert imitates republicans and libertarians by saying this. >> i believe we are now living in a nonstop petroleum party that will never, ever end. that's just how markets work. john: i think he's mocking us, but it's true. that is how markets work. >> he's paul ehrlich with a smirk i guess. saying the same thing they predicted 40 years ago, it's been disprov we're not running out, we have abundance and fantastic for america, fantastic for human health and welfare. john: occasionally hollywood grasps how innovation can solve shortages. in one current movie that's gotten good reviews. matt damon is an astronaut who gets stuck on mars. >> it would take four years for another mand mission to reach

me, and i'm going to have to last 31 days. in the face of overwhelming odds, i'm left with one option, i'm going to have to science the hell out of this. >> science the hell out of things is what we do. what our brains are made for. we tend to fear, worry about the future. we plan ahead. when we're talking about energy issues and food issues, water issues, we've done quite a bit. tremendous what we've been able to do. the resources we've been able to take advantage of and we're not running out. we can science the hell out of that problem and many others. >> thank you, james taylor of the heartland institute. next, why you shouldn't be scared to eat bacon and eggs and cheese?

. >> this dopedup streaker from the sunshine state is another dark example of the deadly designer drug. john: the press eagerly repeats most everything government officials say about possible threats to public health. after all, more of you will watch if i say coming up, a food that may kill you, than if i say some power and fame hungry officials claim something might harm you but the evidence isn't in. none of you will watch that. you'll watch if we scare you. >> between 2010 and 2014, heroin overdoses in maryland increased 95%. >> it's a killer drug. john: the killer drugs. i'm not going to worry about the drug war now, we'll limit this segment to food scares. for the past 50 years, we've

been told we shouldn't drink much of this stuff because it will clog our arteries, give us heart disease. you should drink skim milk instead. now research says saturated fat is fine, skim milk is no healthier, may be worse for you. what a big fat surprise. and that's the title of nina teicholz book about what a lot of government said to scare us about food is just wrong. >> whole milk is the poster child for that. when you take out the fat in milk, you can't as well absorb the vitamins in milk right? vitamin a&d fat soluble vitamins, if you can't absorb themselves, you can't absorb the minerals in milk. you need the fat. john: and the earlier studies which they say are wrong were basically correlation studies. . >> the whole idea that saturated fat causes heart disease is launched on the

epidemiological study, shows correlation, beginner science, shows association of correlation but doesn't prove cause. john: in this country, they have a lot of saturated fats and get heart disease, in this country they don't, therefore it must be the saturated fats. >> must be the saturated fats. a good example of that is people with yellow fingers get cancer. is it the yellow finger or people who smoke get yellow fingers? that's kind of the state of that science, you don't know, is it the fat? the sugar? what is it? a lot of things correlate. john: audience, look at these two pictures, which of these two is on the usda's low fat recommended diet? audience? which? i won't let you guess because it's a trick question. >> kind of a loaded question. on the left is this woman known as fat louisa, a pima indian in arizona in the early 1800s,

junk food makes us fat, but there's no cheese doodles, twizzlers in the supermarkets near here but she's obese. she's eating a diet largely in grains carbohydrates low in fat. this guy on the right is a warrior in kenya, studied by scientists in the late 1970s. they found that the warriors had very low cholesterol, it did not rise with age, they had very low blood pressure. john: they ate meat, fat. >> two to four pounds of meat a day and two liters of milk, and the other things they ate were blood. so a diet of over 60% of their diet was animal food, and yet they were in perfect health. john: it turns out that coconut oil is good for you? >> that's another reversal. in the 1980s, we removed those from the food supply and

instead we brought in -- john: here's a headline, movie theater popcorn delivers as much saturated fat as six big macs? >> there was a scare campaign. john: scared me off popcorn for at least a week! [ laughter ]. >> and that popcorn used to be popped in coconut oil, right? there was a big campaign to get rid of the coconut oil. they brought in trans fats to cook the popcorn in. john: which are bad for you. >> bad for you. >> 20 years later the "new york times" says once the villain, coconut oil charms the health food world. >> based on the poor associational evidence that was not shown to be true. john: egg yolks aren't bad? >> over 50 years of having egg white omelettes, that was based because the yolk has all the cholesterol. we're told the cholesterol in the food is the cholesterol in your blood, right? another correlation, but that turns out, we've known since the early 1980s that turns out not to be true.

there are experiments a doctor eats 30 eggs a day and cholesterol didn't go up. replicated it in studies and turns out not to be true. like the milk story all the nutrition is in the yolk. john: and bacon is okay to eat? >> saturated fat story. we've been avoiding bacon based on the saturated fat. john: webmd says skip breakfast you'll get fat. i skip breakfast, you've been told you can't do it, it's the most important meal in the day. >> the government says if you eat breakfast that is associated with being thinner. people skipped breakfast, other people had oatmeal, others had frosted flakes and the people who gained weight are the people who skipped breakfast, not the oatmeal eaters. john: next, the snake and the cockroaches.

. john: welcome back, while the animal handler and assistant cat have moved into the audience with their scary looking friends, at least some of the audience is freaked out by one of these guys. yet none of these snakes is really a threat to us. we are programmed to fear minor threats like that. it's something to contemplate as we face our fears this halloween. now it's your turn, and our studio audience's turn to talk back to tonight's guests. fear sociologist margee kerr and the heartland institute's james taylor. who's first? you just have no issues, what's your question, stop stroking it. [ laughter ] >> on the issue of running out of resources, now food and water are essentially nonissues at this point.

but hydro carbon based fuels in the ground, oil, coal, if we keep using them, we would run out. maybe 500 years down the road, we would run out? >> if we keep using anything, essentially we're going to run out unless it regenerates, but we know that a couple hundred years from now we are going to discover all new ways to power our economy. if we decide we're going to leave the resources in the ground for conservation, what good is it doing us? we're using it because of enhanced health and human welfare. >> researching human fear, what differences have you found between what men fear and women fear? >> i haven't looked at a lot of gender differences in fear. startle response is universal. so humans are going to jump when startled by something, and then beyond that, it's going to depend on where a person is where, they grew up. their developmental history. john: i think women fear more stuff.

you were onto something, you should research that. yes, sir? >> for haunted actions are there scary actions that go too far? >> sure, i think a really good haunted house is going to make space for customers to leave, you know, without being shamed, without being told they chickened out. to say you did a great job, you made it this far. john: yes, sir. >> i can accept we have a lot of energy, if i were green lobbyist or environmental sided politician, i would say that's only because of the efforts since the 70s to conserve. is there any validity in that? >> no validity whatsoever. we are probably using more now than then, even per person. not an issue. >> why is it fear is a more powerful motivator for human behavior han a positive tendency towards motivation. >> fear kept us alive, it is

fundamental to our survival, so we evolved to make sure it works really well and fast and motivates change really quickly. john: yes? >> my question goes to mr. taylor. >> are you bothered by the snake next to you? >> not at all, not at all. i can understand -- [ laughter ] . >> go ahead. >> okay. i can understand the fact that there's really no threat on the loss of natural resources like natural gas and oil during our lifetimes, but i do say that there's a legitimate fear of the effects of the extraction of these natural resources such as contaminating public water supplies. >> there really isn't, we should be taking steps to make sure it's done in a environmental responsible manner. we pretty much do that. basically inject that

underground, hundreds of feet beneath the surface, make sure it's not going to poison the water at surface and we have a good environmental record. john: yes, sir. go ahead. who do you believe? >> we can go on the internet and read the studies ourselves, read the data for ourselves, and form our own conclusions and get the opinions of other people and experts and scientists and pose questions, we can interact, it's a wonderful age we live in. john: if you had to recommend one thing to read, what would it be? >> a global warming issue, i would recommend watts up with that? and you'll get the science from a realist perspective. john: well, thank you, james, margee and cat and lyle and your snakes. next, my sexist, obnoxious, but correct response to some of my

fellow fox tv hosts. @

[ applause ] . john: there was a small shooting? we need more gun control. drug addiction? we need a war on drugs. saturated fat? government must control.

that this rule making based on fear is bad policy. even if the scares are real, because when we're scared, when there's a frightening threat, we don't think rationally. i was once the lonely guy on fox's tv show "outnumbered." at that time the scare of the moments of ebola. >> what should the president do next? >> get up and say this is an overhyped risk being pumped by news media like us and especially you women more scared of ebola then men. >> really? john: there are risks in life, and ebola is -- >> one of them. john: unlikely, it's hard to catch. >> we don't know much about the ebola virus. why isn't it better to be safe and not sorry. i don't think we are prepared to handle this. being prepared never hurts. john: after this show, i said i bet every one of them more americans will be killed by deer than ebola.

they laughed at me, but it turn out that year only one american died of ebola. 200 were killed by deer, colliding with them in cars. but nobody worried about deer or driving. we should. we aren't scared of stairs or house fires and swimming pools, though they kill thousands of people. we're terrified by new threats like ebola. and that fear is a friend of the state, because when people get frightened they willingly give money and power to politicians and bureaucrats. protect me, make sure i'm safe. so big government grows. during world war ii americans feared immigrants from japan might be secret enemies so america locked many of them up. >> the 120,000 japanese and japanese-americans living on the west coast were rounded up and taken to internment camps where they would spend the duration of the war. john: most of the people locked up were american citizens and later the government apologized

for the internments saying it was race prejudice and war hysteria. america paid $20,000 to each camp survivor. internment was hysteria, but did the media point that out? hardly. most acted like shills for big government. listen to this from movie tone. >> japanese evacuated from strategic west coast areas show little apparent regret. they seem relieved and some say it's like a holiday. john: like a holiday, right. at least the japanese internment camps are gone. usually the scares fade, but the hundreds of pages of bureaucratic sarbanes/oxley act that was supposed to protect such things lives on. and sarbanes/oxley didn't prevent the next financial problem, and in the panic over this we got the more bureaucratic thousand pages

long dodd-frank law. yet this won't prevent the next financial scare. government will grow again, bernie sanders total protection act will come. [ laughter ] >> and it will be this long. the scares come and go, but government, it always grows. people can't fear, people fear they can't afford health insurance, we get obamacare. people fear terrorists. the senate votes 100 to 0 to form the tsa which stands for thousands stands around. [ laughter ] >> governing based on fear is bad government. in free countries without this stuff life gets better, despite the terrorist threat we're safer than ever, we live longer than ever and better lives than ever. democratic presidential candidates lied at the last debate. poor people in america have been getting richer, not poorer. there is one threat to this progress, and that's what

should scare us this halloween. and i'm glad some of you reminded me about it. when i ask on social media what do you fear? gerald tweeted us -- on facebook, brian says -- yes, guys, i fear that too, and government steals more money and more freedom every time people get scared. that's why it was good news to me that lots of people in times square were so sensible. >> what do you fear in life? >> there's not a lot they fear. >> nothing at all. >> i don't fear anything. bring it on. >> nothing? >> no, not really. >> you know what? i want to experience all that life has to offer, and i know that if i don't enjoy life, it will pass me by. john: right! so please go enjoy life and happy halloween. [ applause ]

good evening i'm luodobbs. the military loses control of a massive billion dollar blimp. fighter jets are scrambled. we'll have the latest for you. reaction to the arrival of the u.s. navy in the south china sea. china doesn't like it. china says it's not afraid of a war with the united states, thank you very much. and among our guests tonight, house freedom caucus chairman congressman jim jordan