the highest elected office in the land. leslie says, what will it take for social incompetence. >> the more the evidence comes out about benghazi, the worse it gets for hillary. >> this was someone's child. stuart: our time is up. neil, it is yours. neil: a two-year budget deal. the debt ceiling for a couple of years. it were a flex hours u.s. values. he's the usa. a number of people, none of the above. joe's the budget and our fiscal discipline. $80 billion in additional spending. in the meantime, we are getting more details on the russian

plane crash that killed 224. various influences involved. connell mcshane with the very latest. connell: two developments worth pointing out. the two that stand out. the pilot did not make any kind of distress call. you did not have a distress call before the plane broke up midair, they are telling us. the second thing, the plane was not struck by anything coming from the outside. in other words, a missile or something coming from the outside in striking it. obviously, you * do all foot did happen. that is where things get to be murky, at best. it broke apart. a high altitude. isis related group did respond over the weekend. this is quick to claim responsibility. the russians dismissed that

claim saying it was not isis. it is not ruling out any theory. saying it is not isis, i do not know if that is at odds. not ruling out terrorist involvement. only saying the investigation is too early to rule anything out. far more questions than answers. neil: connell, thank you very very much. michael boyd, aviation expert. michael, we do know that the company cited an external influence. something that hit this craft. we do know that the better part of facing a number of other carriers avoided this region. after the first ukraine shoot down a couple years back. what do you make of this? >> this is getting very malaysian.

if that airplane came apart in the sky, that clearly means one thing. probably not a mechanical failure. we have a security issue here. neil: to what end, though? your battles against isis forces. if isis is claiming responsibility, it is a lead, obviously, but it is a dangerous neck of the woods. >> absolutely. here in this country, 95% -- the reality is that airport wanting to do something to an airplane. russians do not want to admit that and certainly they don't. we have gotten that so far.

neil: what to look for when you piece together thanks? was it mechanical in nature? a sudden happening of events. could it be, this particular model, this particular plane it had a very long track record, the better of 18 years, what do they look for? >> they will look at the debris field. how the airplane came down. remember, this is a russian airline. they will find something there. airplanes do not, certainly an airbus, does not fall apart in the sky. they are destruction only to strong. if they came it came apart in

the sky, something that cause it to. i.e., let's be blunt, a bomb. neil: were you surprised that others did not and continue to fly? >> it just amazes me. the malaysian thing was totally unexpected. the problem is -- neil: thought to be shot down over ukraine and others avoided that space afterwards. >> a should avoid the space. this is more fuel, more flying, it can disrupt schedules. is there really a danger here or not? in this case, we know that there is a danger. if it is not in the sky, it is on the ground in egypt. neil: thank you. it is scary.

in the meantime, we have jpmorgan out with a report. hiking interest rates. it would be a good thing. the markets would respond favorably to that name. i want to pick scott martens brain on that. it would actually be good. it would be a reflection on confidence, this economy. what do you make of it? >> i see that. i do not get it for the long term. let's take this objectively. let's say there are aliens out there. they were to come down and look at the stock market versus the bond market in the last 20 or 30 years. i think they would agree that they were together. lower rates have moved together. jpmorgan thinks that all of a sudden that will change because the economy is better, i do not think so. if rates go up, in my mind,

stocks go down. neil: the parts that i read, the federal reserve very cognizant of a fact that every move that it makes could rattle the world market. china is slowing down. confident enough that our economy is not. they are saying that this would be greeted favorably. you do not buy that? >> i just look at the stock market right here, neil. i look at its internal behavior. it appears to me that the stock market loves this low interest rate environment. think about it. if you are a borrower, i am sure you will be more inclined to borrow more money if rates are lower. the capital access is less. ask if they are in regard to capital if you raise rates, i think that tends to go away. a bit of a boost out of stock prices as we have seen in the last five to six months.

neil: these deals of late, about a $6 billion deal, visa, europe, a $23 billion deal, on and on, you see much more this activity. normally you see that ahead of a possible rate hike of get the money while it is cheap. optimism that they think equities and mergers are a good environment to do this. what do you think? >> i think they feel like they are companies that are in this slow growth environment. revenue is really not all that spectacular. i think a major company with lots of cash or a good credit rating, you go after some of your competitors. you go after your alliances. this window may be closing with regard to how you can borrow so cheaply. it is best to get it in now. neil: where rates are right now,

up over 100 points right now, did the market can ahead of itself? an incredible ought over. maybe it is coming up. >> major danger here is the fact that the fed will raise rates. i really think that that will be the tough environment. i will tell you why think the market is back up as much as it is and october is because they found out the fed will not raise rates. rates stay low here. neil: thank you very much. art laffer was on our air a little earlier with maria. providing all of the wrong incentives to all the wrong people. take a look at this. >> you tax people who work and pay people who do not work. do not be surprised --

[laughter] neil: we are on that tax debate. that is the battle royale. they pay other taxes. do you buy that? >> of course. this is simple politics. it is in synthesizing what the government really is. you are going to have more people not working. it does not take a rocket scientist to figure this out. neil: calling for more not paying any income taxes. that is donald trump. $50,000. 75 million that would not be

playing. some are sending the wrong message. maybe they are being realistic about it. what do you think? >> absolutely. we all want to lower taxes. i think they are struggling. you watch the debate last week did people who had a whole bunch of exemptions. the play on the right is there is no clear plan. tax rates in this country are still pretty good overall. here is the thing, if you are paying taxes, you are making money. if you are living off the government, no one will get rich. to have the psychology of if i get paid to not work i will not work is almost, i disagree with the premise. that is poverty. no one wants to live in poverty. >> the deal that the president

just signed. expanding the debt ceiling for a couple of years. that is a sign of good things to come. you are wondering what he is smoking. >> yeah. i am wondering what a lot of those folks in d.c. are smoking. our current tax rate is choking our economy. you can fake it with interest rates, lowered interest rates and other things that make it look like we're doing a lot better than we are. for example, new college graduates and their rates of employment, real employment, you can look at in the any minority population across the united states and feet there is something definitely wrong. not looking to see what they will do for the economy. our economy is a mess right now. no numbers, no fake numbers

change what real people are experiencing. neil: it takes some of the heat off both parties to focus on bigger issues. ironically, not with this president did how much does it take off the table? very educated on this issue. walking away from the table, you have a good deal. it does keep the government open and functioning. if you look at all the parts of the plants where the left and right got some things that were good for what they saw the future of this country being, defaulting on our head is the worst thing that we could do. neil: -- >> we have held a gun to that head for a long time. neil: running with the government does not mean automatic default.

you are worried about what they do in the interim. >> yes. can we please stop fantasizing about what a government shutdown actually means. it does not really mean that anything substantial happens. no one has ever gotten a paycheck during a government shutdown. it is true. >> no, it's not. >> only person robbed when the government is not shutdown or at lease when the leverage of the possibility of the government being shut down, the only people hurt by that are the taxpayers. they're real people who are not happy from this deal are the taxpayers. neil: we will see what happens. the bottom line. in the meantime, you heard about the e. coli fears with chipotle.

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be 15 it appears to be marco rubio. way too early to tell. as you can see, the pack is sort of centered on donald trump and ben carson who stayed about the same. it was rubio who surged the most percentagewise. way too early, but we will keep an eye on it. fox business will be doing it take next week.

in the meantime, take a look at the markets. up about 90 points. a lot of this tested insurance premiums. these are beneficiaries of that. the insurance companies and the like. also, focusing on chipotle and the scare here. e. coli the big reason. it had been down a little bit more earlier today. ashley webster with the very latest. ashley: down about 5%. health officials in oregon and washington trying to figure out where the source of this e. coli came from. about 22 people were reported sick. that number is expected to rise. they now believe that these people ate at chipotle restaurants, at least six of

them, in the portland, oregon area and washington, including seattle. shutting down some 43 restaurants in the area. health officials trying to figure out exactly where this is coming from. eight of these people, the victims of this have been put in the hospital. no deaths reported so far. this is the third food contamination to hit chipotle since august. salmonella and the nor rove iris. that is something you normally hear about on cruise ships. at this point, oregon and washington are trying to figure out where this came from. chipotle has healthy high-quality ingredients on its menus. up until now, we do not know what this came from. the meat processing company in nebraska said it may have some e. coli tainted beef that has

gone out to grocery stores. there is no link between the two so far. until they find the course of this, neil, those 43 restaurants will remain closed in the pacific request. neil: you read my mind. another problem in other facilities. ashley: a fairly regular basis. children under five years old and senior citizens, particularly vulnerable to e. coli and it can be fatal. neil: thank you very much. ashley webster on the plate this e. coli breakout. probably seen a lot of energy stocks being slammed. chevron announcing 7000. the whole industry, the oil guys

in the oil services guys. the 100,000 jobs that have been lost. i am wondering where the call is. does it only matter when they are making money? ♪ at ally bank no branches equals great rates. it's a fact. kind of like mute buttons equal danger. ...that sound good? not being on this phone call sounds good. it's not muted. was that you jason? it was geoffrey! it was jason. it could've been brenda. innovative sonicare technology

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neil: you may like lower oil and what it means for lower gas prices. it does not always reverberate that well in the markets. take a look at how energy earnings are doing. as a group they are down about 65%. that could explain the thousands of layoffs. chevron 7000 workers. obviously, they are losing money. having to lay off anti-in itself. i do not see what is behind this sudden drop in prices.

they do not get the same type of response. prices are rising and crashing. >> americans are paying more than double for gas than when president bush first took office. >> get tough on big oil. the president refuses to do that. >> a retirement gift of $400 million -- neil: so when crude oil -- >> prices were running up. it had to be reined in. now prices are tumbling. crickets. >> it is awed, secretary. what do you think of that? >> it is not surprising. oil companies are bad guys. when it goes down, nobody thinks that there is a conspiracy.

they no longer contribute to the oil industry. tactics and price gouging accusations. it is a double standard. of course, now, there will be criticism and the oil companies will be accused of creating higher unemployment if the layoffs continue. effectively working here. you have a lot of sources domestically and internationally. demand has not been very strong because of economies had not been very strong weather here or abroad. neil: capitol hill or called for getting to the bottom of this forcing prices down. it only works one way. market forces on the upside.

>> obviously, politically, it would hurt some people, to be honest about it. noel companies were so clever. why would they keep prices high all the time? hi prices lead to slackening in demand. that brings the market back. right now you have a lot of new production, potentially here in the united states. opec now longer has full control. that has changed, you know, the supply and demand equation. neil: the economy does pick up in there is a growing chance that the federal reserve will raise interest rates. improving condition clear. all of a sudden, overrun, if you will. the same talk will reignite. >> it would certainly reignite if prices start going up.

the basic fundamentals of the market have changed dramatically in the last few years. producing a bot of allele from shale formation. because of that, the supply side, i think both the mystically and internationally will be strong for the foreseeable future. the combination of weak economies and a lot of regulation tamping down on consumption. it could have a negative impact on that side. pressure will to keep it for a while. the emerging countries, china's and india's growth. the next year, year and a half. a double standard on all of this. you told me about the debate debate last week. money raising. these two guys appear to be the

very big beneficiaries of this. they are jumping and financial support. we will spell it all out. ♪ active management can tap global insights. active management can seek to outperform. that's the power of active management. if legalzoom has your back.s, over the last 10 years we've helped one million business owners get started. visit legalzoom today for the legal help you need to start and run your business. legalzoom. legal help is here. theand to help you accelerate,. we've created a new company... one totally focused on what's next for your business. the true partnership where people,technology and ideas push everyone forward. accelerating innovation.

accelerating transformation. accelerating next. hewlett packard enterprise. big day? ah, the usual. moved some new cars. hauled a bunch of steel. kept the supermarket shelves stocked. made sure everyone got their latest gadgets. what's up for the next shift? ah, nothing much. just keeping the lights on. (laugh) nice. doing the big things that move an economy. see you tomorrow, mac. see you tomorrow, sam. just another day at norfolk southern.

neil: we have been telling you about beneficiaries from last year's debate. marco rubio getting backing from paul singer.

charlie gasparino has been focusing on another guy who is getting a large denomination and has nothing to do with him. his name is ted cruz. charlie: ted cruz is a south texas guy. among small donors. the wall street equivalent. an office park in dallas by some of the local businesses. about two dozen people. a very interesting event. mainly rubio and george bush. obviously george bush was the governor of texas. he blew them away. funny, interesting, dynamic. guys, one condition to the question today, no softballs. he went on and gave some really

interesting insight. how do demographic damage outweighed by the ability of the republicans to get out there and vote. he made people believe he took a democratic advantage. basically lots of smaller donations. trying to branch out for bigger donations. >> early on, this guy lights up a room. >> not only that, he is smart. we should point out that this does not -- neil: what type of money at this? charlie: everything. roy bailey, very connected to giuliani partners, and a lot of wall street oil money in north texas. i should say financial.

these are big bucks. the wall street of global and of raising money here in the city. he will go out there and try to get money at some point. another kind of interesting thing, talking about the dysfunction. he had a way of healing, a plan with the iran nuke deal. boehner ignored a way to hold the things responsible. the iranians not abiding by the rule. he is a pretty interesting guy. this is not a bomb thrower. neil: kind of toning that part down. to them. neil: they have had a very --

trump, as you know, especially when he got wind of the paul singer money to fund rubio, these guys hip pockets. that is not a good position to be. charlie: he is not there yet. much more of a grassroots campaign right now. you have to raise a billion dollars. you take it from where it is coming from. it is interesting. he is still behind in the polls. he is kind of solidifying. when people hear him, they think that guy is pretty smart. it is now among establishment republicans in texas. we are still new york. they're are big bucks down there. neil: it may be shifting from jeb bush. charlie: shifting and crews could be a beneficiary of that based on his performance today at this purpose.

people that walked away that were bush supporters. favorably impressed by him. the estimates, i heard, 250 from this. neil: incredible. neil: when i talked to big money guys, they are saying they are comparing, people at this meeting, dallas cowboys are not out of the running for the playoffs, but with every lawsuit, much, much more difficult. they think that, you know, one more game that jeb loses, if he does not do well in the upcoming fox business debate, that could be the death. they are actually say matt. he has a lot of money to roll through. neil: not a lot of new money coming. charlie: these are jeb guys.

they are looking at favorably crews. it is not good. neil: not promising. thank you, my friend. charlie gasparino. the debate is next tuesday. november 10. economic issues. hope you join us. amazon is already rolling out a deal. we just got through halloween and they are our day onto christmas. a little too early, a little too much or just right? after this. ♪ can a business have a mind? a subconscious. a knack for predicting the future. reflexes faster than the speed of thought.

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neil: we have this alert coming in. better late than never. donald trump is expected to file a new hampshire ballot on wednesday. i would have thought that already would have been done. he will make it official on

wednesday. in the meantime, we're focusing on what is going on in europe with all of these refugees. you were not imagining it. right now, it looks like 218,000 have made their way. migrants crossing the mediterranean since october. they come by any and all means. 218,000 now. by other means by which they try to get asylum. the 218,000, that is a record tally. understating it dramatically. all looking for asylum. we will keep an eye on that. other developments including

sales. way ahead of those christmas shopping holidays. now, like, immediately, gerri willis on what amazon and others are planning. gerri: they are moving fast. you have to get out there to get the consumer dollar. this year, it is all about the consumer. amazon has found a way to lock in their own profits. people who pay $99 a piece to get access to free shipping. here are the kinds of things that are on the website. part of a special effort. 30% off. hd tvs. sony digital cameras. bluetooth headphones on sale. 50% off home automation products neil: only the prime customers. >> early access. you would get a 30 minute job.

>> i am wondering if that has the two edge effects. taking advantage. >> that is absolutely right. that is what the earnings story told. prime membership had grown and grown dramatically. they are doubling down on this strategy. here is what we found out from deloitte. predicting that give spending will be up 6%. driving that, it is not my present to you, -- people are buying for themselves. >> my wife really wants -- [laughter] it was here and i was here. they seem to be the ones that claim they will have 100,000 holidays. the stock has been soaring. toys "r" us.

forty, 50,000 people. cole's doing the same thing. all doing variations of this. is the demand here? >> that is a great point. it does not require a billion more employees in stores. i have to say, what i see is consumer under pressure. they wait until the very best fields are available. black friday, the average discount is 26%. if you know you will buy that expensive camera or you know you will buy that company for the winter, why not wait until black friday. >> we made it timeless. >> l. it goes on and on and on. neil: thank you very, very much. i do not know if amazon is involved in this. would you spend $43 million on a

gas station? that is the one we know about. now it is happening in the defense department. we need more money than this. including more money. don't you think it would be a good idea to check where that money is going right now. ♪

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it is the side that is down right now. the consumer doing relatively better by comparison. many of the financial communities as a way to extract more out of hp then they could the single large entity. it would also clarify what the company does for investors separating enterprise and consumer business. it is pulling here. we will keep you posted. those that get worried about the government. even when it is the defense department. all of the candidates are tripping over themselves. you have to shore up more money for the defense department. they say it should be more. the problem is there are some that go on defense.

including stories of a $43 million gas station in afghanistan that should cost no more than a couple million dollars. republicans should be vigilant calling it out for whatever it is. they are not calling this out, though. >> i think that that is unfortunate. there are no secret cows. there is no doubt that there is room for us to be lean and mean and have a defense budget. that does not mean we have needs overseas that do not need to be addressed. this is a disgrace. >> when any budgeted so large, $600 billion, a lot of money, i am not saying, if you can extract some savings, probably

not looking very hard. >> no question about it. here is the crisis. only about 1 trillion. the real driver of our dead, of course, is entitlement. we need a new deal when it comes to spending. not just discretionary, but mandatory spending as well. neil: excited no matter where it was. just as much as democrats to say areas that are non-defense. they would look very honest. they would look at trying to extract saving. each side plays this game very generally. >> conservatives, tea party, for

those, a rigorous national defense. the reality is, when it comes to discretionary spending, a minority of the spending that we do every year, when it comes to discretionary spending alone, the defense budget is 50%, i think i'll closer to 55-60%. a little gain. holding defense ran some. we are more than happy to decrease defense spending. spending more on big government programs. >> the irony that we have, wiping away any cuts that we have which were minor. $80 billion in additional spending. the president praising that. republicans praising that. i worry about other spending they will be doing.

that is exactly right. this is a gamble that ryan is making. they gambled that he is making, if we can get this off the table for now, get a electorate in the poll. neil: talking about speaker paul ryan. sometimes they do not come close. >> it is a gamble. no doubt about it. >> thank you, my friend. it is wasted money. i do not know if this is wasted money or wasted effort. google wants to make sure that you have a drone underneath your christmas tree by 2017. in fact, these are expected to be hot sellers. some of those that are looking at this, that could be sold within the next couple of years.

in the consumer market. google up on this news. also other news and optimism. optimism from jeb bush use as he is very serious about getting the debate back together. a big event in florida. moving on from iowa and new hampshire. pulled numbers from a fellow. marco rubio. jeb bush is fighting fire with fire. we will have more after this. ♪

♪

. neil: jeb bush is trying to consolidate his face in florida, of course a two-term governor there, facing growing pressure from marco rubio, but less paying attention right now to iowa, new hampshire, and more on his home turf, keep in mind his home primary is an important and one why florida and why now? i guess short debates but you

don't do well in iowa? and new hampshire, is the debate a mood point? what do you think? >> well, as we remember in 2008 when they had the florida strategy, they didn't compete very much in the previous primary states in iowa, south carolina, and new hampshire, hoping he could have a fire when it got to florida. but by the time he got to florida, he was old news, not even in the race. so fass that is the a risky strategy and i will tell you this i was in iowa this week and i saw jeb bush there. it looks like he's trying to campaign in a lot of places. a new florida poll today that had him in fourth place in his home state tied with ted cruz . neil: all right. and we had more polls come out since the week's debate, we saw cruz searching also marco rubio searching. we do not see jeb bush surging

and whether but in that case john mccain came back. there any sense among the people that you talked to that here's a guy who could pull another lasris? >> well, here's the thing. he has one of the great records in the race. he's talked about it endlessly, it hasn't helped him so far. he might be lacking what we would term the it factor where you might need in the presidential race, something that makes you stand out when you come into the room. he hasn't performed well in the debate, i mentioned even in florida where people know his record, he's down in fourth place and as low as john mccain went, he never, ever lost in his home state of arizona. right side we're seeing jeb at fourth place, so if he does come back, it will be a remarkable come back. maybe eclipsing john mccain in some ways. neil: the money he has, the 100 million, that the former governor has but it is

affecting new money coming in and we had charlie gasparino here a little earlier saying that seems to be going to more charismatic figures like a ted cruz, a marco rubio, that has to stop; right? >> absolutely. and that last debate a lot of donors were looking at that if he could stop the slide there and show he's standing out on stage as a presidential figure, a presidential waiting and that's not what they saw. and then when you see the failure to distinguish yourself as someone who looks presidential, a lot of these donors question whether they should give any more money to someone they think might not have a good shot of winning the nomination anymore. neil: amazing. just amazing. thank you, jamie, very, very much. another issue that comes up in debates and likely come up in the fox business network debate, what to do about social security, two schools about it, you have governor mike huckabee that says leave it alone, a promise that was made and a concert that was made to the american people, don't touch it, even people like chris christy and jeb bush who says you can't

continue on this trajectory, or for people like charles payne just stop it all together. now, that's not exactly what jonathan is saying, but jonathan is a fan of maybe looking at a third option and that would be privatizing it or privatizing part of it. explain, johnny. >> well,, neil, people assume that social security is some integral part of the american experience, and it's not. i mean it's only been around since 1939 over which a period of time, by the way, the taxes -- neil: that's a prettier long time. it's not like it came on the scene yesterday. >> yes. but it goes against the american principles that you own your own life, neil, and that's where jeb and the other republicans are missing the opportunity to prevent a radical alternative. as you point out they talk about fixing social security, preserving and protecting it but they don't oppose it morally. they try to prepare a better financial scheme but they don't oppose it. they accept the premise that

entitlements are part of it - neil: you know, jonathan, i think even fdr, if he were to come back today would express surprise that social security had become the soul means of support for a lot of elderly folks that it was supposed to be a part of a three-legged stool; right? savings, pension, and this and now all of a sudden savings are gone, pension are dying with the dinosaur, and it's social security and that's it. now, how do republicans frame that in a way that doesn't sound -- i know what you're saying, but doesn't sound cruel? >> well, you know, that's right, neil, always talk about throwing granny off the bridge and you have to phase it out as it has been faced in over decades. neil: phasing out over what age and -- >> sure. of course but we haven't gotten to that point, neil, we haven't gotten the promise of phasing it out and you talk about individuals being able to save for their own retirement. no, that was a long period in this country's history. the problem is that it's really hard to save when 12.5%

of your paycheck is going into a ponzi scheme that i didn't sign up for paycheck after paycheck after paycheck. neil: you know, i was watching a show, and i was trying to figure out what you were wearing for halloween, and it looked -- it looked like a cross between elvis and dracula. either way, did you get many trick-or-treaters? >> no. no one showed up at my house, which was tough because i had to eat all the candy myself, which was a trajectory. neil: you're a thin good. so you didn't save any for me? that's a "no"? well, it was very funny, i got a kick out of it. very handsome young man. >> thank you, neil. thank you. neil: very funny. good sense of humor. i don't know if this takes a sense of humor but it was a stinger, meg wynton, used to run, carly fiorina listen to this. >> while i think business strengths are important, i also think having worked in

government is an important part of the criteria. i think it's very difficult for your first role in politics to be president of the united states. neil: so what she's saying -- it's carly fiorina, regardless of what you think of her, you need a little bit more than that when going to the brass rink, presumably the white house, is she right? charles, what do you think? >> no. it sounds a little bit funny coming from someone who is trying to become governor. >> running for governor. she was running for governor in 2010. >> governor not necessarily president but sort of the same parameters i think. she didn't start at dogcatchers. so, listen, and she also did on about the talk that you are judged in a political way like quarterly earnings. i think -- i didn't like it. i thought it was unfortunate that she went this route. >> i think you have to understand the back story of these two and they were both running awant to race in california in 2010 and voters couldn't distinguish between the two of them. both republican tech crees who

are rich running for office. they feel that they're different. >> yeah. god forbid they have the same gentles; right? >> it's like anyone else all up in your business anywhere else in your career, charles and neil together. there's naturally, you know. between the two of them. >> i didn't know. did they have bad blood he between them? >> i think they do. back in chris christy so of course meg witman is going to say that. neil: and against romy née running for president. >> right. and carly fiorina and history doesn't send a great message about a candidate or a nominee who has no -- no political or military experience. the only nominee of a major party. >> who? >> didn't win the presidential. >> even the democrats too.

neil: . neil: and then the question becomes what are we to make of this? if you have a respected corporate titan like a meg whitman saying, you know, you need -- >> i think you need to put a an asterisk in this, and the help the woman -- >> it was meg. >> honestly i think meg whitman have both of the candidacy because when she got stuck with this, by the way, she was overpaying. both of those candidacy went down the tubes at the very same time because they both had the chance of winning. neil: men are never brought up in this sort of thing. but -- which is sexist; right? >> yes. neil: but at the end of that of that, it would not be sexist. >> i think the two crowded out their campaign and there's still bad blood about that. i don't think it's a woman or man thing, i think two people that were similar, both tech ceos, and whitman is at hp, still extensively cleaning up what was left behind from carly fiorina. she's hitting it on the.

>> the issue for carly fiorina it isn't so much -- this is my opinion. that she has no political experience, it's that her record running hp was decidedly mixed, and she was fired. neil: why has has she benefited more in the polls? we was showing today's fall out. she's still in the back of the pack here and the one debate, not this one but the one before, she was firing on all cylinders. >> well, one thing she keeps saying i would be the best candidate to run against hillary clinton. why? tell us why? you need to give us a little bit more of a reason. she did not lay that out. >> and someone who would win the academy award for best actor and then you never hear from them before. she needs to have that factor, even in the second debate, she had the most momentum. and i think she dropped the baton. >> i think that she's eloquent and she illuminates why she's a better candidate for hillary clinton and she does drive the

points that hillary clinton only back one woman herself, they don't help women at large and she does a good job defending why free market and capitalism are better for everyone, boater families. i think she does do a good job -- neil: as a woman or the fact of corporate story or conservative or what? >> i think she does it well as a speaker. that she's very good at talking. i think the fact that she doesn't have any -- >> well, does she really move . neil: see i think you have to be a good campaigner, it's one thing to be a good debater, barack obama held his own against hillary clinton in debates. >> right. neil: cd to be such a superior campaigner. >> not a people person, smiling too much, smiling too little, nitpicky stuff, but hard is to describe that obviously donald trump has, she doesn't have. >> ironically enough, it was really donald trump who helped her break out. >> yeah. >> in the debate in her response to him. last week you had people like chris christy and ruby and cruz out and shining and kind

of coming out like the grizzly bears that they are and she just didn't do that. neil: while i've got you guys here. >> yeah. neil: the president is going to make a decision on keystone prosecute canada before the end of his administration. >> i mean i -- neil: friendly or -- >> the news -- the new prime minister of canada who is against the keystone pipeline himself -- neil: no. he's not against it, he's like the jaw boning the former prime minister -- outgoing prime minister harper made about. >> real serious progressive -- i don't think he's going to say "yes." i mean is that what you were alluding to? . neil: i don't know what i was alluding to just thank he's meeting richard on this. >> much of a name. neil: yeah, but canadians want it, what the liberal government said is they don't

like the way they're shoving i it in obama's face, i don't know what that means. >> yeah. i don't either. neil: but i think they would find a common ground. >> presumably a obama. >> they want it here in the. neil: what did you say but environmentalistists doubt. who wins? hillary clinton has set her lot with the environmentalists. >> the unions have a lot of money and a lot of power. . neil: do you think? >> i think that the epa has produced report after report that it's not going to have a meaningful environmental impact, it's incredible that this thing isn't going through so i would assume it's never going to go through again. >> hillary clinton wants an investigation into exxon and what they didn't tell us about the climate change research they did before they even bought mobile. do you remember? . neil: do this from canada. >> doing it from canada you would think it was a "yes." i would fall off my chair into a ground in shock. you should send a camera down to my office, and i'll fall

off the chair onto the ground, or at least an ambulance, because i'm going to fall off in shock. >> how ironic would it be that we're going to sell oils at the lows from the strategic reserve, you know? and we're going to -- neil: the pipelines. charles: i mean -- neil: there are a lot of -- the pipeline not interested in charles: yeah, exactly. >> or maybe it's the i didn't, hillary clinton finally came out against this thing so does that give equilibrium. >> oh, that would be hilarious. >> to say she's against it and here it gets done. charles: last. >> gave her the cover. charles: last week you had a major oil company give up on -- neil: because it's specificity. charles: the economic parts of this, you're going to like it at $40 but is it feasible? . neil: somebody said it has to be 65 to be worthwhile. >> the numbers change all the time. neil: thank you very much. in the meantime now we're getting some of the hard did the news on obama. obamacare. you knew about the premiums

and the fact that they could rise but i bet you didn't calculate how much they would be rising. we have because the numbers are out. let's say they're a little bit jolting. after this the promise of the cloud is that every organization

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i just had a horrible nightmare.

my company's entire network went down, and i was home in bed, unaware. but that would never happen. comcast business monitors my company's network 24 hours a day and calls and e-mails me if something, like this scary storm, takes it offline. so i can rest easy. what. you don't have a desk bed? don't be left in the dark. get proactive alerts 24/7. comcast business. built for business. neil: i don't know whether you call this a biotech dead cat bounce whatever, but vallian, which is always under scrutiny by regular slaters enjoying a bit of a pop today. but, again, down appreciatably, connell on this. >> well, attacking the stock is on the company for some of the scrutiny we can get into a

second, pulling back now as we've seen valiant bounce back or you've just shown on the screen that it's bouncing back in a positive territory today. kind of interesting because before that, the news on it was that goldman sachs was giving up to some degree on valiant and downgrading the stock. and taking it from buy to a neutral to the price target was down to 122, which is 30 some odd percent drop. it all started a couple of weeks ago with this report that said valiant to file fake invoices. and from there things spiraled, one thing toledo another. it was seen as a toxic stock by some investors. and attack by the short sellers. but one significant short seller here, again, from the left this research firm is the not that i remember attacked it to begin with, he seems to be dialing back and we'll watch it throughout the day especially after the goldman downgrade. neil: thank you, connell, very, very much. two other things, we're hearing from josh earnest at

the white house talking on a number of issues paul ryan the new speaker saying as far as immigration reform with this president it's not going to happen, he doesn't trust the president on this issue. earnest saying that's pro posterrous, it's a waste of a golden opportunity. secondly, we should update you on volkswagen that the u.s. is now extending investigation for the company emission test. now, remember they had talked to 11 to 9 million vehicles, there's growing talk it could be double that. there's no way of knowing but everyone has their hands in volkswagen pockets now trying to look into this and is for volkswagen, it can't get out of its own way. some health care developments to tell you about. there's a new obamacare enrollment going on. the white house itself has urged those getting sticker shop to shop around. but liz macdonald on the higher enrollment costs. i don't think that was the call earlier on that if they get prohibited to start shopping down. liz: yeah, that's right, neil,

but hhs put out a number. 7.5%, that's what it said is the premium hike and for the silver plan in obamacare. so 7.5%, that's the increase. but here's the problem. that's only one of the plans and there are a myriad other plans. a bronze plan, a gold plan, all sorts of other plans in obamacare and independent analysis, neil, is finding that these premiums are rising anywhere from 15 to 20% to 25%. so what is going on here? insurance industry consolidation having to cover preexisting costs. you know, 10 of the 23 co-ops have folded. basically are not in business anymore. and, you know, when you look at the numbers, in individual states, anywhere from 12 to 15% in colorado, alabama is seeing price hikes, north carolina, california, and across the board. so why do they only pick out the silver plan?

because that's -- the administration feels the silver plan is what people will use because tax credit -- not for just premiums, but you get cost reductions subsidies for copayments as well. so they use that as a benchmark. when bill remedial around this tyke back in 2013 by this time cbo said 21 million people will be in obamacare will get insurance and across the board there. but now we're seeing only 9 million to 10 million. and the thinking is 18 to 34-year-olds, half of the uninsured are 18 to 34, and they may be saying to themselves we can't afford it, our wage is not going up, we're healthy, and we're got an pay that and pay the obamacare tax penalty. neil: incredible. i don't think they ever envisioned these types of financial hits when it was being sold. thank you, liz, very much. we've got some protest going on outside the cma, suffice to say that when the government there starts talking about taxing trades to pay for

budget shortfall and they focus on these guys and their trades, let's say that does not -- that does not go down well. more after this.

. neil: all right. we already told you how bad things railroad in chicago with the budget, they're charging folks now $9 a month to haul away their garbage but still way, way short but now somebody has come up with tax trades, like that agriculture trades, et cetera, et cetera. and obviously the cme folks aren't fans but those protesters are. jeff flock outside the processes right now, hey, jeff. >> neil, i don't know if you can hear me out here, because i sure as heck cannot hear you but i'm amid's the protest, they have succeed now in

shutting down the entrances to the cme here in chicago, the chicago trade building, perhaps you hear some of the chants. hey you, billionaires, pay your fair shares is i believe what they're saying and maybe you hear that better than i d do. obviously illinois has a huge budget shortfall right now and this group would like to see what they call the tax. that is to say a tax on all of the trading that take place on the chicago's wall street, which is perhaps you see a little bit of conflict with the protesters there. they'd like to see a tax imposed on the trade that take place at the cme and the other financial dealings on wall street. they say it would generate as much as $10 billion to cover illinois' budget shortfall. they claim right now that

chicago, for example, has increased property taxes, some on those as you see police here trying to move in to try and open up the entrances again because people inside the cme are unable to get out. there are multiple entrances to the cme but at this point we are told by security that they're all being blocked in one fashion or another. this group would like to see a tax imposed here, in fact, i saw a banner just a bit ago asking carrie duffy, please support the street tax. they say it would be a small tax on trade to take place here, and it wouldoviate the need for other that are proposed it to balance the chicago and illinois budgets. police now moving us back here. they tried to get in and open this door up but i don't think police had been very successful.

lori, can you see up there? and, neil, forgive me, i'm just going to keep talking here, if you want to drop away, feel free to do so, i'm not going to be able to hear you but perhaps you see this down here. i tell you i've seen a few of these protests, i've been told there's been nine of these what they call moral mondays protest. they've gone to various banks and other institutions but at this point the focus is the cme and perhaps -- i'll let you hear the chant. [chanting] >> there you go. a bit of a flavor of it. and as i said, this is the largest group that i've seen -- it got quiet. we've got quiet. this is the largest -- it didn't last long. this is the largest, neil, of these groups that i've seen, earlier was maybe 7- 800

people, which is a pretty good crowd and enable them to shut down the cme in a way that i have not seen it before. i'm going to pause for a moment and perhaps let you drink this in. but we'll continue to follow it and let you know if there are any further developments. neil, back to you. neil: thank you very much. if you're watching this, an issue here a budget shortfall not only in the city of chicago but in illinois as well and a billion dollars shortfall and they think putting a simple tax on all trades done in the cme and this would call into question any futures or derivative trading from everything from oil to live cattle to agricultural products, soybeans, you name it's traded here. some saying just a few pennies per trade tax others say it would be substantially more than that. but it just shifts the future trading on this sort of thing away from chicago where the environment would not be so adverse and these people find

it to be a relatively easy way to get money, and it could be short-lived. the fear seems to be that such a quest for cash can boomerang on you. connell has been following this. this would not be the first time those seeing budget shortfalls hitting up the financial community to pay for that without addressing the underlying spending that has brought all of this on. but it would be a quick moneymaker. >> it always is; right? but, boy, they're really worked up there, really interesting to see jeff in the middle of all of that. it always strikes me when we have a story like this, it's oversimplified. if people are watching it to say, oh, tax the trade we recognize be easy the answer and they're always the easy target. neil: and only a few pennies per transaction but it builds; right? >> well, right and it ends up affecting real people who trade real securities and all of that kind of thing but -- so it trickle down effect is never thought of the people who are imposing it.

that would be the first thing but the oversimplification of the argument which is to basically say, hey, we can solve all of this by attacking a target, which is a popular target in a populist argument. you're never going to lose in the general public saying, hey, go after those fat cats, go after the trade. neil: i see and it is a popular appeal, it's an easy way to raise tax because you would slap a tax on every trade made. and the argument is it would be a few pennies it could conceivably raise a fewdollars e now that if you win the lottery there, they write you an i owe you and there's a long line of lottery winners still waiting for their cash. i'm just wondering on what the affect would be if the chicago exchange has to face this tax. would it become the minneapolis exchange or what happens? >> well, one of the reasons that you're seeing more than

likely is because the state and the city of chicago are so strapped, you've had an increase -- i think it kicks in early next year in sales taxes in cook county, making it the highest -- one of the highest sales taxes in the nation. it will be north of 10%, 10.25%, property tax increases. you have the president of the cook county board wanting to tax golf, bowling, and ice skating among other recreational activities. so i think the backlash toward traders, wall street, it's very easy to do. but you've had the whole of the city and the state getting hit with higher taxes because they can't manage their finances. neil: you know, jeff flock, you're in the middle of that, i don't know if you can hear us because it's very, very loud there but this developed into a wave of people who thought we were getting tired of the cuts, getting tired of the taxes, tired of the $9 a month garbage fees and they're saying there's got to be a better way; right?

[chanting] >> neil, i'm sorry, again, very, very difficult to hear out here. just at the rear of the chicago entrance building at the cme, the protesters seem to be moving away from the entrance, so i think it's fair to say that the protest is continuing. ask i know you've been talking about it but clearly illinois was a very large budget deficit what things might look like on national level when those in power can not reach some accommodation. and some sort of, compromise in their reasonably intractable positions but, as i said it is

frustration for everybody from lottery winners who are not being paid to education budgets at the state universities, layoffs of state personnel, contractors, state contractors not being paid. the state paying extra money in terms of interest from providers because they don't want to do business with illinois because they're not paying their bills right now. and this is some of the, frustration that is kind of pouring out as a result of that. perhaps you hear the chant right now, who's side are you on? in fact, this is fact creating sides and this is some of what we're seeing outfall of that right now. i read some of the signs, millionaires, pay your fair share. student needs, not corporate need. love thy neighbor as yourself. there is what these protesters

see as unfair perhaps accumulation of wealth in limited hands. this is the message of the protesters. of course as we know this can cut multiple ways. when one thinks one is being fair, others might think something different. at any rate, fair to report, regardless of your political stripe, this is the largest of these sorts of protests that we've seen here in illinois since the budget crisis began. members are larger, and it has taken police a bit by surprised because in the past they have been able to corral protesters and keep them in particular place. at this point they have succeeded in shuts down the cme. not shutting trading down important to note but just entrances and exits to the building. i'm sure law enforcement not happy about having this, what some would see unsafe situation. people not able to get in and

out of the cme building. we'll continue to watch this. it shows at this point, just as i was about to say, shows no signs of abating we have quiet. i'm being be haded. a new song. there you go. neil: jeff -- reporter: isolate it. neil: we'll focus on this. cme is large conglomerate and derivatives, corn, soybeans to wheat, to oil. in fact a lot of that oil trading went from new york to chicago because of tax differential in new york. lot some of that oil trading business. not all of it. this is very transferable sort of thing, cm e-trades as stock as well. all those traders are in there. charlie gasparino joins us with dagen and connell as well. this is not the first time we've seen a, occupy wall street gang

to go after those guys, whose side are you on? similar argument. wall street fat cats get away. this is different kind of a beef, right? >> i don't know about that. tear tactics are little different. i covered occupy wall street movement. i spent whole afternoon down there in disguise, with baseball cap and t-shirt. >> didn't shower after workout. >> i didn't blend in with them. they didn't shower for days, some of those protesters. true story. true story. this is the far left at work. occupy wall street was basically financed by the new york city teachers union is part of far left labor movement. supported bill blass black comrade who -- bill de blasio. who our mayor of this city.

i don't know who all the senators are. neil: he is against this tax, rahm emanuel, is for it. trying to look for interim or hybrid tax. this could raise a lot of money but could chase the whole business out of town. >> how absurd it is. illinois is state run by liberals for many years. barack obama is from illinois. has huge government government infrastructure. taxes everything that moss. these idiots are calling for same. >> we're all hearing that song over and over, whose side are you on. >> worse than the kars for kids song. >> it appeals to people. >> who does it appeal to? >> appeals to people -- >> appeals to the far left. i would really hesitant to extrapolate -- neil: there are a lot of

chicagoans playing a lot for garbage collection. >> tax hikes in chicago hit the average person. they are hitting everybody. >> give someone a choice, your property taxes go up or we'll tax financial district? >> no offense, this city has been chasing out middle class for years. they will chase out more people. by the way -- neil: they're saying, we're getting wire reports, you can not block an entrance of public building. they are the front and back so traders can't get in or out. volume is way down. not for agricultural contracts. not seen proof. >> it is electronic. neil: we should stress electronic reference you made, charlie, you can shift that to other locals, right? if they tax up the yin yang they can go? >> easily move operations to another city. back to charlie's point, when you have, broad part of the electorate getting hit with all the new taxes, i think it is low-hanging fruit to go after

rich guy. >> i don't think so. didn't happen here in new york city which is the epicenter of i will say this, and this is where the far left making its huge mistakes. when i witnessed the occupy wall street people jeering and screaming at wall street guys as walking to work -- neil: thought they were just jeering and screaming at you? >> they were doing that. guess who they were screaming and jeering at, working-class people that work in back offices of these firms. one of the things they forget, a average people in chicago work at exchanges know, they employ average people. that is one of the problems with occupy wall street, they could never outside of sort of far left fringe base, go beyond that. after a while they became moving more than a nuisance. i suspect this will be same thing. neil: by the way, they say cme is among top five revenue producers for city of chicago. >> think about that.

neil: they obviously want more. >> i doubt jeff can hear us, jeff has done a number of stories outside of this industry, but a number of stories of that area, off the top of my head, businesses in illinois or just in the outskirts they left the state and moved to other places to your point. not this industry, but small businesses and like because of tax struck sure. neil: jeff, i don't know if you can hear me, where are they going? authorities said you can't block entrances to buildings. so where are they going, jeff? can you hear me? i guess he can't. go ahead, yes, i'm sorry. reporter: we have got a movement in the protest now, away from the one entrance that had been blocked. protesters moving away from that. we now have, i can confirm we have eight people, at least eight, in the squad roll i saw, eight arrests.

as you can hear, a chant that perhaps, we heard quite a bit in madison during the scott walker situation in madison. this is what democracy looks like. so clearly, wait a minute. i thought they were moving away from the building but now we see this is just another cme board of trade building. just to be clear, the cme is now housed in the chicago board of trade building, why we clarify, sometimes call it one thing and sometimes another. police have blocked this entrance to kind of keep protesters away from it. as you see, quite a string of police. they were clearly ready for them to move around to this entrance. just so you know, who have not been down on south street, the cme complex, that is to say the board of trade building, is quite a large complex. grew over time, as you know,

neil, what used to be the chicago butter and egg exchange back in the 1800s, to the huge financial behemoth that exists today. this is part of that. this is part of the old building. we're getting protesters cheering now. we have another arrest. that apparently is cause for cheering. maybe, lori, back out of there perhaps, we can see who is being taken into custody here? as i said we had eight. that makes nine. at any rate, is this is large complex, is my point. but they have got protesters surrounding it. and, mult entrances being blocked. perhaps you portrait of gandhi there. this is, as point out, despite arrests has been a non-violent protests. people have been carried away for attempting to block the entrance and sitting down, that sort of thing.

lori, if we move out, get out to where the police have taken -- i want to see how many folks are in that police squad roll but they have that cut off. i can't see how many more there. we have at least, as i said, nine arrested now. and, this entrance, currently being blocked. i can't see other entrances. we'll keep eye on that. this is large group. does not show any great signs of dissipating. you know what? lori, walk with me, i want to see if they're trying to keep this thing together. i want to see if any other entrances are blocked. that one is blocked as well. you got, you with me, lori? this is not as large of a group clearly. but they're also blocking as well. i want to see if the jackson street entrance, out of the midst of the protests here. i want to see, are you following me, lori? whether the jackson street entrance -- let me walk down and

do that. i will check out other eptransas well, neil. we'll get back to you, just to be certain whether this building has been completely shut down. let me run up there real quick to take a look. neil: you're watching jeff flock, easily has to be bravest reporter on the planet! just to bring you up to speed, protest concerns a big tax hikes already gone into effect in chicago. a lot of chicagoans an illinois residents saying tilted toward lower middle class. that they have paid more than enough. financial community and those that trade variety of futures and derivatives from agricultural products and oil and currencies they should put up money. saying tax could be anywhere from a few pennys to a dime or more a transaction. that would add up into billions of dollars that the state would then use to sort of pay the bills and put the spending on par where the goals are right now.

they have not cut a great deal of spending but they are looking ways to raise taxes. i'm sure that might not sit well with cme trader todd horowitz who joins us on phone. todd, what do you think of this plan? has it affected your mobility in and outside of building? >> hi, neil. very hard to get out of the building. ridiculous plan by bunch of idiots that don't have job. >> just what i was saying. neil: let us know how you are feeling. not quite sure -- >> dagen says i never saw how i really feel. when you look what they're trying to do, many traders, as trader myself, we only make pennies per contract. we're trying to trade, providing liquidity to everybody that wants to trade from both sides, making pennies for per contract. they tried this 25 years ago, jodie tried to tax. -- joe kennedy. they will shut down the business. won't be market makers.

won't be electronic market makers when they take away ability to make money. a few pennies turns out to be a lot of money. 20,000 transactions a day how many dollars is that? become as very big deal in scheme of it. this gives cme, perfect reason, we're closing floor completely. we'll move all electronic. good-bye, good luck, chicago. have a nice time. that will be end. neil: you think all the trading operations would move aren't have to endure this tax? >> absolutely. there will be no way, a, they afford the tax. by the time the trade every gets through trading paying commission, paying fees, everything else, there is not a big piece of profit left much, unless you trade size over time. cme, cboe, board of trade, to hell with this, we're moving out and going to the suburbs. neil: if you can hang on, i know you're a busy guy, looks like we

got up with phil flynn. i hope phil has not been arrested. jeff flock is out there with him. what is the latest? >> i think we can bring additional perspective. i have phil here, just to give you latest, if lori can see, police officer trying to move you up there. so lori can come around here. this entrance still blocked. but important, phil, perspective from you, you know what these people are asking for. they're asking for tax on the trades here. >> they are. but -- reporter: why is that not a good idea? >> it is misguided. cme doesn't pay a sales tax. they don't buy things. they provide jobs. every state around illinois, indiana, wisconsin, going to businesses come here, why stay in illinois? we're offering you deals -- reporter: to be devil's advocate, people argue it would be small tax on trades at that take place, pennies perhaps. why would that be a problem.

>> because the c. me is competing globally with markets in europe, markets around the world. if we become uncompetitive, it cme will have to pack up and leave. they will lose volume. reporter: that dramatic? >> it can be that dramatic. cost per trade has gotten very competitive. there are exchanges all over the world that want this business. believe it or not states right across the border that want this business as well. may force cme to leave the state. reporter: walk with me, phil, because this protest seems to be moving down to jackson street. they call this the lasalle street tax. this is the wall street of chicago. >> right. reporter: but you also know this state has tremendous budget problems right now. this money has to come from somewhere. >> they do. the but the problem is, budget problems were not created by trading community. in fact trading community of

this city provided jobs for many, many years. the problem is, that you can't look at years of corruption we've seen in u.s. state government over the years. we could read you laundry list of the problems that we've had in the state. heck, we have our own wing of the state penitenttry for our governors. to expect to us cover it, take over and cover all the problems -- reporter: arguably that is not the fault of these people standing out here? >> no, it is not. a lot of these people, have to have jobs and problem is, we're forcing businesses to leave the states because of unfair tax rolls that we have. reporter: i want to get your perspective while i have you here, phil. you have seen some other protests. we reported earlier, we reported earlier on the other what they call moral mondays protests about the budget. >> right. reporter: this has to be biggest one. >> this is by far the biggest. we knew this would happen this morning. we had no idea -- we never had

any idea and now to see all the people, kind of reminds me of occupy chicago protests first couple weeks when that was really up and running. that faded out very quickly. i don't know if this one will fade out until we get a budget. reporter: i was going to say. are we reaching boiling point here? >> i think there is a lot of anger. i think anger is misdirected. to blame wall street for problems state has, it isn't. mismanagement at state level for years. it has been a lot of people. reporter: get other people. go ahead. >> what about big businesses banks, everybody, tax the 1% and help pay for people that are in need, our veterans, our children. reporter: well i like that. >> i think we should help 1%. corporation is not 1%. if we tax cme, put on dollar tax they're asking for they will go to indiana. have you listened to radio?

indiana running ads every day, take your business out of corrupt state of illinois, bring it to indiana. we have budget surplus. we have a, not a budget deficit. wisconsin they have a surplus not a deficit. the state needs to clean itself up. >> tax rich at 90%. in eisenhower years we taxed rich and built a great country. rich have to pay more in order to have decent education. decent health care, good roads, infrastructure, we don't have, need the poverty that we're creating. reporter: he makes point corporate tax has been higher in history? >> taxes have been higher but do you really if we raised taxes it will promote jobs and economic growth? >> trans-pacific trade agreement will send a lot of jobs overseas as it is. if you want to create a middle class you have to fund education, you have to fund health care. you have to fund the things that people need and create jobs that

way. reporter: great thing about america. to be able to stand out here on street corner, listen to people with differing viewpoints that is the great thing about this country. i report that this protest, again continues and shows no signs of abating here at this entrance. as i said. some of entrances now are open. but at same time, the protesters are making their voices clearly heard outside of cme in chicago with the chant of who's side are you on? what it is coming on to. neil: be safe, phil as well. the argument rich should pay more, talking about pennies on a trade, what is the big deal? pennies on a trade could translate into billions of dollars in revenue. that is if you're able to get it. doesn't chase that money away. scott shellady, is in cme inside. what do you make of they are

talking about, you guys, industry can afford it? small price to say to return economic stability to the windy city, what do you say? >> phil flynn made a good point, we're in competitive industry. this is not monopoly. these products and different things can go elsewhere and traded elsewhere. cme has to stay competitive. cme is big organization. if you want to raise something by penny, already costing us four four cents, that is 20% increase. neil: you think the business would go elsewhere, scott? is that the fear or not? >> well, fear is, the exchange would move elsewhere because now, you know, let's remind ourselves, mostly electronic now. it is pretty easy. neil: easy to move it. >> get up and move it someplace else. that is not a big deal anymore. >> it is interesting, cme has different cachet than the new york stock exchange. even though most of trading of new york stock exchange stocks trade off stocks exchanges, they

have opening and closing bells which are event. cme didn't have that. that operation can operate in wisconsin and indiana so easy because everybody trades off computers. we should point out one other thing, you know, it is not, phil made this point before, it is not wall street got chicago in big trouble. it is -- neil: tempting source of funds, dagen. a lot of -- >> teach remembers angry, particularly in chicago. neil: hillary clinton and bernie sanders. >> they have a half a billion dollar budget short fall they have to fill in matter of months. neil: chicago. >> right. you could have automatic layoffs. teachers were asked by chicago public school system take a pay cut of 7%. so the teachers and teachers union is extremely angry. here is overall danger. see it in other cities, talking about baltimore and detroit, drive tax base away.

who will pay bills when no one to tax. neil: rage is palpable whether awe guy other disagree with it. wondering who will pay for that. >> part of the presidential candidate and part of appeal with bernie sanders. income inequality and fight against 1% and all of this. this idea about incentives this is something already going on as i said earlier. phil flynn made the point again, and particularly in this state of illinois. i know it is national. with tax structure in illinois, a lot of small businesses choosing to do business elsewhere. this is latest example. >> this is the left and left continuously picks on wall street, and wall street has a lot to be picked on but we should point out -- neil: last month we heard bernie sanders say corporate types didn't to to jail. hillary clinton saying. >> this is minority this is the left. these are people that are marginally employed or employed by unions. neil: they are, is it resonating, jeff?

are you seeing it resonating beyond areas like chicago or illinois? >> dagen had it right. in maryland they put in millionaires tax. tax revenues went down because the millionaires moved up and moved across the border to virginia. same thing will happen with cme if they try to put, two, three, four, five cent tax trade on it. they will move the business elsewhere. burdens facing there. government is facing. were they first going to tax hikes where they could pay for everything they have? >> trying to do cuts. it is perfect storm. the state has been, democratic state for 40 or 50 years, run by democrats. been continually run into the ground. fiscal situation here is the probably worst in entire country. we have elected a republican governor. so that's, they have been fighting back and forth.

put it in easy terms. got $100 million of tax revenue. they need $200 million. has to be cuts somewhere. whoever has cut will be angry. but the problem is, people protesting, saying it is big business's fault. they should be down in springfield protesting legislatures because they're the ones that got us into the situation in the first place. i say this, i voted with my feet, phil. i moved out of the state of illinois to indiana because of this very problem. neil: sandra smith is telling us that these protesters started this moring alerted buss are here. which means a lot of them were us abouted in. >> this is so obvious. half of occupy wall street were kids that wanted something to do. the other half were professional union leftist organizers. that is what you have got here. listen to rhetoric. they are out of touch with reality of illinois. illinois home state of obama obama and slew of liberalism for last 30 years.

drove that state and city into the ground. they make up for crummy little tax on traders? they have a lot more to worry about that. but that wouldn't be that really big name driver. remind ourselves, one or two years ago there was a huge tax break from the state of illinois which is another reason there is some of that i care. i don't think is a big reason to move, especially after the tax break, but it is something that may be could drive business away.

neil: a lot of that business drove itself from new york. the relatively cheaper confines of chicago, this might be pushing them once again. sort of a modern day, rich versus poor. >> this is one of the big things. i am staying with this. protesters outside the chicago mercantile exchange. in order to finance illinois shortfall. it has been four months and counting since the state of illinois has failed to pass a budget. protesters marching through demand that the governor tax the rich. we are in the middle of all of it. people are angry. >> i think that their anger