dead outside the suv. perhaps another dead inside the suv. a third in a white building being described as a church with a s.w.a.t. team outside of it. we'll leave you with lou dobbs right now. keep it right here on fox business. lou: good evening. i'm love dobbs. at least one suspect confirmed dead after a shootout between police and suspects in the san bernardino office massacre. one suspect reportedly still on the loose. these are pictures of the suv, the black suv in which the suspects escaped the crime scene. the crime scene in which 14 people were murdered. and another 17 wound in san bernardino. the inland regional service

center, a government facility in which almost 700 people daily try to administer the needs of disabled adults. and in a conference room, a large conference flooment inland regional center, the center building you see there at 11:00 a.m. pacific time, 2:00 eastern. three men walked in with semiautomatic aupon and opened fire killing and wounding 31 people, and fleeing the scene within moments of opening fire. we are expecting a news conference from the police department, the police chief is expected to be speaking in just a few moments. we'll be going there. that black suv every window of which has been shot upheld the bodies of two of the suspects. one suspect on the ground. one police officer hit by a bullet that ricocheted.

all of this began five hours ago. of the southbound rrp police chief says -- the san bernardino police chief says 14 people are confirmed dead and 17 others wounded in the shooting that occurred at 11:00 a.m. pacific. the regional center where disabled adults, an adult daycare center, this is one of the police sergeants from the public affairs office of the san bernardino police. let's go to her right now. >> as general update -- as an update, officers working this active shooter case were doing follow-up work when they locate wad appeared to be the suspect's vehicle. during that contact shots were exchanged between the suspects and the officers.

one officer was injured and was transported to a local hospital and it does not appear to be a life-threatening injury. additionally a suspect has been hit. i believe there is still possibly a suspect outstanding. so it's still a very active, fluid situation. we don't have a lot of answers yet >>

>> if there were originally three suspects but i don't know. i don't have that information and have an investigation that took them on that path. >> and the still the process >> i don't now. >> i don't know that his information i have not been given. >> can you please go over once again how many people? >> i don't have those details the chief will

provide those at 4:45 p.m. he is being briefed as we speak. >> listening to the san bernardino police department to the questions of the press that what maurer details than what the police can provide and certainly that is understandable because they have been under an intense manhunt and shootout with the suspects over the course of the past hour. we want 2.0 with the timeline of the last five hours of the for shot as many as 200 people in the regional center in 14 people are confirmed dead and the police chief cautioned everyone that the numbers may rise.

one critically wounded in the shooting that happened around 11 local time and a social services center they helped to disable there that was rented out to a health care provider i cannot tell you what company that is or what was assembled reported the there having a christmas luncheon the shooting lasted just three 1/4 minutes according to the police the shooter used to long guns likely semiautomatic rifles. coming from eyewitnesses'

some of whom witnessed the shooting or some fled the building and shots were being fired. police are not saying anything and that is likely because they don't go. and not know what caused these three men to comment and opened fire in a room full of innocent people. there were using tactical type of clothing and president obama was briefed on the attack the federal law enforcement is not saying this is a terrorist attack there is so much that we don't go. former l.a. detective detective, mark, good to have you with us. the fact that we have so many unknowns five hours later but i have to say this

looks like an extraordinary police achievement. the san bernardino police department has done exemplary work. >> there will be the after action review to know what they did right or wrong. what the suspects may not have known they were close to a training facility and that might have trapped the suspects within the perimeter. sometimes you know, where sometimes you don't. lou: one of the eye and an unfortunate things from this week -- from the s.w.a.t. teams as this was unfolding and i believe we have video

from one office worker. is that video available? those are seen within moments coming of their vehicles headed toward the center and are completely unaware of the tragedy in the conference room from two floors away. en to put them above the map and there is a small building made up of conference rooms it looks

like the f-16s -- m-16. we will go to the picture here. what's make it a full screen. whizzes only blocks away from waterman avenue and the regional center where this took place. the suspect within a mile for hours after the shooting after being pursued but they

could not to escape that perimeter set up by law-enforcement agencies. let's get the after action report right now, a live report, the police need to be commended. bill looks like they did one hell of a job. >> they ended the situation quickly and decisively and one suspect is on the loose but he might be wounded but with those to a deceased suspect she will learn the identity of the third or the fourth of there is one.

going back to the beginning that after action is learn how to trade and confront the situation is better. they learn the closer that you get to seal the perimeter that is what they did it seems to have worked if you look at the situation with directed targeted vacation of precision and tactics with the egress and they were out it doesn't give them a chance to respond it was lot but it worked. lou: in the way that plays into their capture or their demise to find out in that

after action report. it is unlikely to come up of a motive of three men walking in and opened fire. but there is no motive or any connection to make it so. other than the mass murder itself. a homicide without question. and into ruth three years it doesn't call us anything. would you venture a speculation of the purpose or the motive? >> i will not speculate to the motive i have never been too concerned of those with

an act like this but this was not a soft target attacked but a specific attack of a specific room. when i first saw the description i was leaning to the target to engage who was in the room. then they laughed there were not concerned with the rest of the building, the rest of the people, they were gone. they accomplish that then they left. lou: thanks for being with us the speculation of a motive we will try to pull that together as are the authorities. now joining me is former n.y.p.d. detective let's get your after action report with the san bernie duopolies -- san bernardino

police the number is still uncertain fourteener 17 wounded? >> looking at the excellent job not only of san bernardino but all the local police departments but that vehicle that they stopped with the firepower only got 1 mile away from the scene. that shows the perimeter was locked down local police departments were kept in the general area of the shooting lou: there is the vehicle after the shootout perhaps one or two bodies into bearcats that are heavily armored vehicles that are

approaching. and then to disperse equipment for local law enforcement

. lou: it was a frustrating 3 1/2 hours for the police, for those of us watching and worrying and what in the world is driving this madness. >> right, and you're worried about now it's more than one. it's not just a lone nut doing something like this. maybe a disgruntled employee. maybe someone targeting the holiday party because maybe they were excluded from the party. when you have multiple shooters, this is a very unusual circumstance for a

shooting of this nature. you don't have this. last time probably to memory was columbine, where you had multiple shooters going into the school. you don't normally have. that the guy a week ago in colorado was a lone gunman. lou: in each instance of mass shootings since columbine, i think i'm correct in saying this. each instance was a single shooter. each instance was a person deeply, deeply mentally ill, and, and in this instance have you three people suddenly aligned to carry out a bloodbath against presumed innocents. this is entirely different, a complete departure. and we are so accustomed to putting it up against the template of the lone shooter, the madman, firing on innocent people, or because of paris, a terrorist attack being coordinated, but why the inland regional center?

why a place that is helping disabled adults? this, the innocent of the innocent. the questions compound themselves. >> it will be very interesting to allude to mark fuhrman's after-action reports. i know the media wants it. i've been at the scene of many, many crises in the city of new york and other places where reports were being relayed by the media which we knew to be different. now we have a guy possibly on the run. the police didn't say exactly that they were looking for this vehicle or what they expected at the time, but they knew what they were looking for because the police officer who started the pursuit knew what he was looking for and knew that was the vehicle they were looking for. lou: and as a matter of fact, shepard smith on the fox news channel at the earliest hour was talking about be on the lookout for and the frustration of for whom? three suspects.

no height, weight, race, or further description, suggesting perhaps there was a reason they did not want to give out information. it was a peculiar police procedural moment, was it not? >> it was a calculated move by the police not to release certain things. in the meantime, the investigators were obtaining videos as well as everything they could get of surrounding cameras of the vehicle possibly pulling up, the vehicle in the area and where the vehicle may have gone. we have police vehicles that shoot plates as it goes by. it's possible we'll find out that this vehicle passed one of those things that alerted cops to chase the vehicle. lou: one of the things we learned and i think as you know, tom, the entire regional center was, they had an array of closed-circuit television cameras. these people, whether they knew so or not, were videoed from start to finish in that building. tom, can we ask you to stay

with us here. we're going to turn and bring in former assistant director of the fbi in new york city, bill gavin. bill, good to have you with us, and we appreciate your time. first, your reaction to these events and your assessment? >> well, lou, the events are absolutely tragic, but now you're talking about three different crime scenes. first of all as has been said a number of times, anybody that does something like this is usually the lone individual who comes in and figures a way in and never figures a way out because they expect to die at their own hand, or the hand of the police to begin with. you have three crime scenes now, and the motive is what escapes everybody at this point in time. since you have two of the individuals and it appears two are deceased and perhaps one is in that church that has been mentioned, perhaps the motive will unfold as time goes on because it could be one of these individuals or a number

of these individuals didn't get the treatment they thought they ought to get at this disabled center. one never knows. it's not -- whatever they did is not the act of a sane person anyway. but it just goes to show that ever since 9/11, the degree, the grade of degree of cooperation between all law enforcement, the federal, state and local and sharing intelligence information and being able to talk to each other on radios that don't present problems, the technical ability of the police departments has increased and developed in situations such as this. lou: bill, what you're looking at is police giving further credence to the report that there is a fugitive still at large, as we're watching a deployment of forces, obviously, including one of the bearcats you see.

the heavily armored vehicle with officers riding on the side rails and the rear. they are deploying, enlarging the perimeter effectively to go house-to-house, as they continue the manhunt here. there are even reports that he is wounded. we can't confirm that. there is very little that we can tell you about the very person who is believed to be at large, and we can only say authorities believe that person to be at large, and it's at this point it's unclear as to whether or not they do have one of the fugitives, the suspects, in custody, but we'll know more about that in the minutes ahead. so stay with us, as this story unfolds. joining us now, fox news chief intelligence correspondent catherine herridge. catherine, thank you. give us your sense of what's

developing now? >> well, here in washington, lou, what we've seen in the last few hours is that homeland security is engaged. secretary johnson was briefed by law enforcement team shortly after the shooting began and he's been receiving regular updates, and the president was also briefed by his white house homeland security and national security adviser so this is the stage that's been set here in washington. at this hour, they're very focused on two things. they are also looking into this reporting that appears to be coming out of fbi in los angeles of an individual at the meeting, disgruntled, left, and then returned with other individuals, and that's when the shooting began. to some extent, this speaks to a motive, but the person i spoke with at homeland security found it curious because it doesn't fit the picture of premeditation as we heard at

the news conference with the individuals showing up heavily armed, also the gear they were reportedly wearing and having some kind of plan to ease their escape. the other thing i know they've been looking at is working on a name to see if it matches up with any of the suspects, two of which are dead. the positive news on this latest development for the investigation is that it will allow them to identify who these people are and what happens in all of these situations is they immediately do what amounts to a social media scrub of these individuals. so they're looking at twitter accounts, facebook accounts any, associated accounts to get a picture who they are and what their actions were in this period leading up to the shooting. so here in washington, they're looking for a lot of these same answers about a motive and who the individuals are, lou. lou: yeah. i see the problem, the

frustration of some of the folks of homeland security because the very idea these men with pull off this action and then escape within a matter of moments and three of them with tactical gear, body armor, if that is, in fact, the case as was reported by nearly all of the witnesses, and be precipitated by an argument within a holiday luncheon, and these two just happen to be on-hand to carry out such an atrocity. >> reporter: i know, there are elements of it that don't quite make sense, but here in washington, homeland security as well as the white house team for homeland security, at this point, as frustrating as it is, they are not in the lead, full, on this investigation. this is still being led by the local police and that means that a certain amount of information is just not reaching these teams in

washington because it hasn't kicked up to that level where the fbi would be in the lead, and that's always the case when they believe there is some kind of terrorism whether it's traditional i'll call it islamist terrorism or terrorism of other flavors. so that hasn't been shown to be the case at this time, but again, this level of premeditation and the ease with which they were able to enter the facility clearly a soft target, and then to be able to sort of melt into the neighborhoods there, but this speaks to the idea that you cannot protect everything all of the time, and in this particular case, homeland security said they had no intelligence information about a credible threat to this part of the country. lou: yes, and that may be even suggestive of the fact that this is not a form of terrorism with which we have come to understand it, that this may be

something entirely new. tom ruskin former nypd detective, i want to ask you first about what looks to be a concentration of man power and firepower there with the helicopter over flying as well as the two armored vehicles. >> what appears to be happening here is a mobilization again. it looks like they're going to cordon off the area and search the area for the one individual who may have gotten loose. the simmili to this is when they were looking for the second tsarnaev brother. they mobilize the s.w.a.t. teams and go yard by yard and yard until they found it. in the tsarnaev case, they found him in the boat. that led to his capture and later on his trial. what is unknown here is it appears to me whatever happened in the conference room was planned. they didn't just go and get a buddy and come back in with tactical gear and shoot up this

place. lou: we should point out, that is being reported by some news outlets. we're not going to report it. >> but it appears to me this was not just a spontaneous type of thing where you go and get your buddy and come back in. it appears to me from what we know thus far, it appears something had been preplanned where they were going come in, one, two or three and going to shoot up this place. lou: well, right now, our concern is for the safety of those citizens of san bernardino with what appears to be one of the suspects heavily armed, a fugitive still, a manhunt, an intense manhunt, obviously under way. we're going to go to the scene there in san bernardino, fox news correspondent jonathan hunt to bring us up to date what he sees happening on the ground. jonathan, thanks for being with us. what are you seeing here?

>> reporter: well, lou, this has been a few hours of intense activity, ever since that initial shooting incident. right now the focus is just about two miles from where we're standing, and this ongoing manhunt for at least one suspect. police appear to be going door-to-door in an area of san bernardino, as you can see from the live pictures, which i assume you are looking at right now. they're heavily armed. they have bearcats they have in the area that they're using as they move through very carefully. now, this all unfolded after a shoot-out with a number of people inside a dark suv. we watched live as police converged on that vehicle awhile ago, an intense gunbattle, fire coming from inside that have, and we saw at least two bodies being pulled out. it wasn't clear at that point whether there was a third

suspect inside that vehicle, but it now appears that at least one person got away from there or was never in that particular suv in the first place, that is now the focus. now you go back several hours from that and we have the initial incident just a short distance from where i am right now. at least three shooters, as witnesses describe it, all dressed in black, wearing face masks, opened fire inside part of the inland regional center, a center that deals with the developmentally disabled, but they also rent out certain of their rooms in that building to any private group that might want them. now our understanding is there was some sort of holiday party going on. that's where the shooting occurred. we don't know precisely who may have been the target, lou. lou: jonathan, we know that the san bernardino county health department had leased out for

at least the day, to a health care provider. we do not know the name the company or the nonprofit that description would fit or who the people were who were at that so-called holiday luncheon. we want to add to what you're saying right now, a request by the san bernardino police to all of the residents in the general area and various areas within the city near where this is occurring. they are asking all residents to stay within their homes and to lock their doors and they are making that request as jonathan hunt has just described it, this intense manhunt continues. as tom ruskin pointed out, as it expands across many blocks of the city now that surround that inland regional center where the shooting first

occurred. jonathan, one thing on this, two bodies as you're reporting extracted from the suv that was shot up by police, as they got into a gunfight with the fleeing suspects. we also saw one body, presumably that of one of the fugitives, lying on the street as he appeared to be trying to escape authorities, and one, one other fugitive. is this count rising to four? is that what is going on, rather than three? >> reporter: everything that we have seen indicates, lou, that there were at least two people in that suv who were killed in that shoot-out with the police. one of them you saw lying on the floor in a pool of blood, some sort of long rifle lying next to the person. then another body, we believe

in the back seat that was the cops used some device to push that person out who fell lifeless to the floor. those are the two we're aware of inside that suv. now clearly the police are searching for somebody else, that would bring the count to three and would jibe with all the original reporting that we have heard, all the original comments we have heard from the police chief here that there were at least three shooters. that is not necessarily the end of it. all of this is changing every minute. we believe three shooters is the total that they have been looking for. we believe two are dead, we believe one is still on the move right now, lou. that is not to say there aren't others police are looking for here. lou: as the police chief pointed out several times today, the numbers that he is sharing with the media are the numbers they have and that the numbers are likely to change. those numbers stand at this

point, as jonathan hunt reported, three suspects, one of whom is at large, it now appears, and the subject of the intense manhunt, and the tragic numbers are 14 murdered in this mass shooting, and 17 others wounded. i want to go to bill gavin now. bill, your thoughts as we're seeing the crime scene here expand, the manhunt widen. >> well, right now, based on the fact that two individuals are apparently deceased at the vehicle. the fire fight that went on between the black-and-whites and the vehicle itself, the shooting coming through the windows and back window. one individual obviously bailed. is there a good possibility that individual could be hurt, wounded? yeah, i think that probably is a good possibility of that. the police picked out that area to go to either based on a

trail of blood or some other forensic information they had, or witnesses in the neighborhood say they saw an individual run into a yard or whatever. difficulty is it's starting to get dark out there, and they have to light the place up, but they will -- this thing will be over fairly soon. this individual might not have a weapon, might be wounded, but they can't assume that, they have to assume he's heavily armed and get out that way. lou: obviously, tom ruskin, the law enforcement agencies and san bernardino agency are taking nothing granted here. >> they also have bloodhounds. bloodhounds are very, very good in these situations of smelling the car, getting a scent and following that scent or to bill's point which is a very good point, following a blood trail. >> i want to point out we are expecting within the next seven or so minutes the san

bernardino police department to be stepping before these microphones and cameras where you see the press beginning to position more of those microphones to bring us up to date what they know and to give us a sense of where we are and hopefully answer many of the questions we have been raising here tonight. i'm delighted to say i think we have more questions than answers which was not the case one hour ago, we're grateful to the san bernardino police department for that, to tom ruskin, bill gavin, mark fuhrman for clearing up many of the issues that arise as we figure out what is unfolding. tom, you were about to say something? >> you know, it's very early in this investigation to assume anything at this point in time, but it appears that the san bernardino police department is holding a lot close to the

vest. they may know the identified the two other people, if there are two other people out there, or the one person who escaped. they are looking at cell phone records, they probably know who the deceased person is in the car and taking prints and running the prints right away. they're downloading the cell phone records to see who they spoke to probably right before the attack. >> it is about 4:40 in san bernardino. i have some good news because this suggests that the situation is improving markedly. the san bernardino unified school district has been under lockdown since this event occurred at about 11:00 pacific time this morning, about 2:00 eastern. they have just lifted the lockdown on all of the schools in the san bernardino unified school district, suggesting that there is a high degree of

comfort that at least the safety of those students and those facilities is assured. bill gavin, i want to talk about the coordination between the federal authorities and the fbi, specifically homeland security, and the local authorities, in this case, san bernardino police, san bernardino county sheriff's office and other agencies i presume atf and others would be involved as well, and what you expect to be happening even as we speak. >> no doubt about it. this is a case that belongs with the local police departments. everybody else is there as an adjunct to their endeavors. with that said, some of the federal agencs can bring additional technical expertise to the table that may not exist locally, and it's all a cooperative effort. one group of people doing what

needs to be done at this particular point in time. it's very, very important to remember that, there's a great degree of cooperation, and right now as tom pointed out, the cell phones working, the one individual on the run, if his cell phone is on and they were in contact with the two that are deceased, i tell if you that cell phone is squawking, they'll have the individual in a short amount of time. lou: we all hope and we all pray. former nypd police officer, former secret service agent dan bongino joins us by phone. dan, glad you took the time to join us, appreciate it. your thoughts about the level of success in apprehending these suspects and what you think of the prospect of a fugitive still on the loose?

>> looks like now the speed of the operation is impressive. what's surprising is what little distance these perpetrators at this point, what little distance they covered getting away from the actual crime scene. that may be true to the dragnet imposed by the local law enforcement, and that's a job very well done by them at this point. >> it's interesting the level of sophistication, if you will, professionalism, tactically that they brought to this tragedy and walking into that room in body armor shooting these people and escape. it in every way suggests highly trained, military, professional, perhaps professional terrorists who planned and carried out this operation with a high degree of sophistication, and then

suddenly they're caught within a dragnet in a matter of hours and a mile distance from the crime scene. that in itself is surprising, is it not, bill gavin? >> yes, it is. we really have to look at all the forces that have come together to make this work, and it's going to end up with this individual, if he's still alive, in jail or captured in a short amount time. i have all the faith in the world that this will be the result with the last individual here. lou: and we're told, dan, that within a matter of moments we're going to have, the authorities of the police department are going to be stepping up in front of the cameras with the latest. you're looking at cameramen adjusting microphones and cameras rather than a police officer. though, that is a fetching way

to wear your sunglasses on a southern california evening. let me ask you, dan, at this point, you can see any way in which this person could not be apprehended? >> no, i don't see that happening. now you have the community on high alert. everybody that effectively i heard on the network deputized. everyone is on high alert, looking for anything unusual. people in the neighborhoods know what belongs and doesn't belong. anyone acting remotely suspiciously is going to be a 911 call. if there is someone out there making it far before they're apprehended or cornered. lou: let me throw that out to the three of you law enforcement professionals, and i know this is asking much of you in the short amount of time that has been for us to assess.

tom ruskin, how isn't they couldn't have gotten farther away, wouldn't have gotten farther away? >> my feeling is the perimeter was set up quickly. intelligence good, local police departments, federal departments converge on this county. they saw roadblocks were stayed up and maybe stayed in the area figuring they were going to wait awhile. fact of the matter is the jurisdictions have robocalls, now the sheriff or the local jurisdiction, the san bernardino police department has put out a robo-call to every single house in that area telling them to lock down, telling them to call 911 if they see suspicious activity, and notifying them of any information they may have via this robo-call. lou: and bill gavin, we're talking about three people carrying out a heinous act, a horrific act in murdering 14 people, wounding 17 others as

the numbers stand tonight. is this terrorism? is it important how we define it? i don't know that. and i'd just like to get your thoughts on that. what it appears to be to you? >> i think at this particular point in time, lou, it's terrorism in its broadest sense of the word. that is, these three individuals have caused a terror within that facility and also within the neighborhood and also within san bernardino. i seriously doubt, it's a gut feeling, but seriously doubt they're going to be connected with terrorism as we come to think of it in terms of some foreign involvement or something like that. i believe it's just mass murder by some wackos that two of them have had the sentence passed and the last one is yet to be caught. lou: dan, your thoughts?

>> at this point, i think the reason they didn't get that far away, and speculating a bit. columbine changed everything. the idea was to build an immediate perimeter around the scenario. get right to the source of the problem and put down the problem, stop the shooting as soon as possible. what may have happened, lou, have you all of the units immediately heading towards the problem in setting up a perimeter intentionally to get into the problem, but then you had a wider dragnet for units on the outside so you had a buffer zone where they made the safe immediate area, and been caught in that buffer zone between the wider perimeter and the actual shooting scene. lou: and as we await the san bernardino police department news conference, i want to point out as you're looking at one of the fire department vehicles there, this began with

reports from the fire department as well. when we talk about first responders, this is a terrific example all of the first responders en masse getting after the situation that they had to confront. and i've got to say, tom, the officers on the scene, the first to arrive went in against semi, presumably, they thought the shooters were still in the building. they went in with handguns, 9 millimeters and that's it. >> right. they may have had shotguns in some of the patrol cars. to dan's point, you know, this is what officers are trained to do. columbine changed the scenario here where officers wait outside to try and negotiate with people while the shooters were killing people inside the school. so now when the second cop shows up, the two cops are trained, this is part of the training procedures, nationwide to go in, if you get a s.w.a.t. team, the s.w.a.t. team goes in with you, it's to stop the

active shooter situation as quickly as possible. relative to the response of fire, police, ems, emergency medical ambulances, this is what they train for every single day around this country. as you reported very well in the beginning s.w.a.t. was training less than a couple blocks away, so it allowed their response to be even quicker. lou: and some of the people in that building thought this was another shooter training session. apparently they have the active shooter training every single month because they're dealing with some adults who are not mentally well, and not stable. so they do train monthly on this. and it's remarkable that the s.w.a.t. teams were training just a matter of blocks away. >> that's the world we're living in now and becoming used to. from new york city beefing up critical response teams, the

extra heavily armed officers who are now 500 to 600 strong and supposed to be 1,000 within the next year. this is what cities are doing nationwide to better protect their citizens as well as their people. lou: and as we watch, i think that's a terrific point, but as we watch those two bearcats pull up next to that vehicle which has been involved in obviously, an extraordinary shoot-out with law enforcement, there's been a big discussion about the quote, unquote militarization of police. i have to say, i can't imagine any citizen not wanting the police department to have such equipment available when they have to confront such a deadly enemy. that's what these people are who create so much des prayer and carry out this horrible act. >> the key here is when you use the military vehicles, do you use them during demonstrations?

there has to be protocols set up per region and per area of when they're going to use it, but it's very necessary for larme police departments to use the surplus vehicles in exactly the situation we're looking at on the screen. lou: and again, with all credit to the san bernardino police department, its chief and its leaders, dan bongino, i understand that you're available now. i just want to turn to you and ask you what your sense is of what is going to transpire here over the next hour or so. this is, as we're looking at this with the bearcats surrounding with the tactical vehicle, the black suv that was shot up with the two gunmen inside, what is your sense of what's going to unfold here over the next hour or so, as

we're losing daylight in southern california, and the suspect still apparently not in custody. we're going to be updated on that. a news conference expected here shortly. >> well, it doesn't turn into a crime scene investigation until the actual crime is stopped, and at this point it appears there may be someone outstanding. so public safety is number one. but once that subject is apprehended and law enforcement can ensure that the actual crime is over, you're going to see a total reverse engineering of this crime. financial records backwards, financial records, cell phone contact, social media postings and police focusing on is this the group. we don't know if there are two or three individuals, we don't know if there's a larger group out there. we don't know any of that yet and what law enforcement is focusing on. reverse engineering this crime to make sure it is just in fact

stopped and these are the only perpetrators. lou: dan suggests, bill gavin, that these three, if the number is three and not four may be part of a larger group, so the questions again enlarge upon themselves, and the suspicion would be that it's unusual for there to be three, and perhaps in some ways make more sense within the template we're used to operating under that they be part of a larger group given these times and given these events both here at home and abroad. >> lou, dan and tom hit the nail right on the head. what they have to do with the reverse engineering that dan referred to is have to go back, who talked to whom? what did they have to say? get all the cell phones? get to the computers in homes if they have them? was there a bigger part of the

group? just three individuals? more than three individuals? did they talk about it with anybody? all of this is explored and uncovered. this is not over with the capture of the last person. this is with the restoration of the whole thing starts is tonight with the capture of this last person. lou: these cold-blooded murderers, let me ask this of each of you to weigh in on this, and don, ask you to answer first, if you would. when you hear three semiautomatic weapons fire at once, people have to be well trained to deal with just the noise let alone the act, that they are committing. these people had to have significant training, did they not, to be able to carry out such a cold-blooded, horrific act? >> they had to have a familiarization with the weapon. how to load it, how to reload it, how to work the safeties, how to keep it clean so it

would work, all those kinds of things had to be done beforehand. and this cold, calculating murder they committed, and there's nothing that you can't put icing on this, it's a cold-blooded murder by a bunch of horrible people who would do something like this, and they will have their day. >> they had some kind of training. from what we know, the police officer in pursuit, the original cop in pursuit came under fire from one of these guys getting in the back seat and firing out of the back. that's a tactical move. normally, you know, retained to the military, or formed by the military. so it's either some guy who is really above, firing guns and knows how to fire guns but knew how to suppress a police pursuit. lou: that police officer driving that vehicle is a very fortunate man or woman, depending who was driving it.

i mean that kind of fire, you got to have some kind of guts to stay in pursuit. dan, your thoughts? >> yeah, i think all that's been said prior is accurate and training is a relative term, lou. to fire indiscriminately in a semiautomatic long rifle is not that difficult, but to go in, at least the reports from the incident of a casual, calm exit from the crime scene requires, as bill accurately stated, some familiarity with firearms so that there doesn't seem to be panic with this individual, even though he ruthlessly murdered a bunch of people, which says he's had familiarity with some techniques firing a weapon and targeting either animals or targets in the past. so i agree. but the training term is relative. training like in the 9/11-type incident. we don't know it was that type of terrorism. that was a significant footprint that left

investigative bread crumbs that could have been missed to. learn how to train to fire a kalashnikov is all relative. lou: september 11th was an immensely sophisticated planning and coordination. the individual acts were, those were relatively of a primitive level. the fact that people can have the training necessary to use a weapon in this horrible way, it's such a revulsive way. >> lou? lou: i'm sorry, go ahead. >> one thing i would mention is a probability or possibility at least that some of these individuals might have obtained that with military experience. that's something that definitely has to be pursued. lou: yeah, one hates to give any kind of recognition of any kind of a skill used in such a perverted way. it is not in any way to laud

them, but to look at the nature of the kind of person on this day who took these innocent lives. i want to, i mentioned earlier in the broadcast and point of fact that amongst the people in that building, the inland regional center, were a couple of employees on a different floor who happen to look out and with their camera rolling, talking about what they thought was a training exercise as those s.w.a.t. team members scrambled to get into the building. and what you're watching was occurring at approximately 11:00 a.m. pacific time within moments, within moments of the shooting of these innocent victims.

lou: we want to credit the "los angeles times" for that video. as you can see now it's getting dark in san bernardino. we are awaiting that police press conference we were told would occur 15 minute ago. people are getting assembled now. they are awaiting the arrival of someone from the police department. your thoughts as you saw the officers come in with their weapons at the ready. >> people can criticize the police department he single day

for the few misacts they do. those are officers running across a highway with their weapons to even gang an active shooter and risking their lives for all the people being shot at in the building. lou: they run to danger, they don't run from it. and they protect the public every day and do their very best to say living. it's getting damage, we are waiting for -- it's getting dark and we are waiting for the press conference to bring us up to date. as we assess what happened and the departure of what this day represents, it sounds horrible, but as we have come to expect when we have a shooting, and we expect shootings now in this country.