for the few misacts they do. those are officers running across a highway with their weapons to even gang an active shooter and risking their lives for all the people being shot at in the building. lou: they run to danger, they don't run from it. and they protect the public every day and do their very best to say living. it's getting damage, we are waiting for -- it's getting dark and we are waiting for the press conference to bring us up to date. as we assess what happened and the departure of what this day represents, it sounds horrible, but as we have come to expect when we have a shooting, and we expect shootings now in this country.

i'm not quite sure what that noise was, but i apologize for it. but this is a departure. three people working together to kill innocents. >> you are right, lou. we hear about this time after time, not just in our country. but other country. you look at saint-denis, and the point is we approach, we don't sit around on a per relationshipper and wait for the shooting to subside. now they walk into the shooting. we have come to expect that, and that's a horrible way to have to live in this country in this free democracy. but because it's a free democracy, thing like that will continue to happen. god bless the police for the training they have to address a situation like this the way it

was addressed today. lou: i want to go back to the san bernardino police department and the equipment they used. san bernardino county has been among agencies receiving surplus military equipment, rifles, silencers, mine-resistant vehicles. two of those gear cats. i can't -- two of those bearcats. it's part of the department of defense 1033 program. there has been a lot of talk by the administration of pulling that back. i think as you said, properly used -- that does not mean in riots and demonstrations, but it does -- my god, it could have been a real life safer today -- a lifesaver today. >> it was a lifesaver. you have officers pinned down by

fire. it could pull an officer's body out of a car to get hip or her to a medical facility. it's a very necessary thing police departments need and they can't afford to buy it. we have the surplus under the 1033 program and there is no reason not to give it out. lou: that's a lot of flashing lights on the right your screen. what you see on the left are reporters and camera crews getting ready for a highly anticipated news conference by the police chief. of san bernardino county. it's -- i mean, there is a huge, huge number of vehicles and manpower still out there, so it suggests that that function tough may well still be at

large. >> he appears to be in the say area. we are look at the same thing the night the tsarnaev brothers took off and you had amassing of the law enforcement agencies from the surrounding areas basically take one of them down and capture the other one after a gun battle later that evening. that's our seeing here. they are cordoning off the area and they will do a perimeter search by search by search. they will halt that citizens called them and say i saw a suspicious activity. my dog is barking like crazy, there is something going on out there. lou: we have just gone the video of some of that house to house search going on. and it's over -- i can't say with any precision how lang an area, but many blocks

surrounding this one mile area around the inland regional center. we understand the inland regional center itself one by as i understand it the county of san bernardino. a lot of state department agencies there as well. they will be having a news conference bringing us up to date and telling us what they can. amongst the outstanding -- many outstanding questions is who was the healthcare provider that hat rented the room for the holiday luncheon in which all of this took place and was the scene of the wounding of 17 people and the murder of 14. we still do not know the answer to that question. we still don't know whether there is one function tough still at large. the law enforcement obviously is not taking any chances on that,

trying to clear area, or take that suspect into custody. and we don't know whether any of these suspects, the number we think is 3, there may be four. any of them we were originally told, one was taken into custody, but we don't know the truth of that. and we can't confirm it and hopefully that can occur here. bill gavin, tom made the point that the san bernardino police have played this very close to the vest. not sharing information that usually law enforcement agencies do share, at least within a couple of hours. it appears they did not. you are thinking on the way they handled the situation tonight? >> i think they had a protocol and they handled it close to the vest because they know if they give out a lot of information, it could top like -- stop them

from getting the job done they need to get done. in this particular case, it obviously is true that what they did was most successful to bring this to a long cal conclusion except for the one last perpetrate tore and that perp will be caught sooner or later. dr. keith ablow, great to have you join us. give us a sense of what you think of this departure of what has become an american norm, that is, a shooting, with a number of victims, but this time with three perpetrators. >>it is a departure because of the number which would make you wonder, they are they part of any group, do they have any ideology that they share. so you do think of terrorism or

gang-related activity. it won't remain a mystery long. i think we'll learn which category of shooting this falls into, then it won't seem so strange. we'll understand it was motivated by a drug-related episode or by terrorism or what. that is sort of the forensic analysis that will take place here. and of course you will have people saying it's all about the guns. but i can tell you having worked with dangerous people for a long time in my subspecialty of forensic psychiatry, the availability of a weapon may determine what's used. and if one isn't available they move on to another. they can cause just much havoc and death using weapons other than guns. lou: it's become an american

norm, a number of victims, a shooter, typically mentally ill. that's been the case since columbine. i don't know an exception to it. lone shooter, mentally ill killing unfortunately so many people, innocent people. this is so different in so many ways. it's hard of course to speculate given the possiblit -- given thf detail. there is something going on that would suggest this is going to have some significance beyond just the tragedy itself. >> it's hard to speculate but upon some thing we can meditate or think. we have seemed to cross the rubicon in some ways. what is considered unthinkable

has become tragically almost routine. i think sometimes populations and around the world, not just our country. but populations mimic the episode that have transpired in pages earlier in the story of a nation or around the world or whatever you might have. so unfortunately the ceiling has been breached. when people get in mind that something is conceivable, then i think what we have to do is run ahead of the process now and say how do we identify proactively people at risk for the episode that are not terrorist-related. terrorist related is about the f.b.i. and the cia looking at communications. from my standpoint psychologically we have to identify who are the people most at risk to commit these kind of acts because they may be identifiable.

we have to find them below actively. clearly people are willing to do things that in the past they would have thought of as beyond the pale. >> beyond the pale as these acts are, it's so heinous. so un-american. and it is somehow as you say conceivable, but on the other hand so repugnant and incon receivable that it continues to occur. whether -- whatever the motivation turns out to be, these three perpetrators to kill and wound so many people, for what, we can't imagine, and to me, to me, dr. ablow, we are really -- it may be routine by the remains inconceivable that this is happening in our country.

>> absolutely. but when you look a few levels down, the mysteries all evaporate. in every one of these episode, it's either found to be terrorist related or found to be politically related or found to be a disgruntled person or found to be somebody show is mentally ill which is most common, but it would be hard to imagine three people engaged in a describingally motivated event. but there is something at the root here. there is always a story unfolding. unfortunately part of the music playing in the background of these events is that people mimic each other, and these mass shooting have a lot in common, the garb, the weapons used. the fact that people arrive and are much more brazen than they were before and seem to indiscriminately target many

victims. and we have to figure out from a psychological standpoint where is happening here and how do we try to turn this back? how do we use communications tools? how do we use case finding? how do we early on identify those at risk for this kind of pathological address. and address it proactively. the thing that d that ails us is not the hardware, it's the software. lou: the loss of life and the pain inflicted on these individual, their families and friend, and the nation. >> and the nation. lou: thank you so much, dr. keith ablow. i'm told at the loma linda medical center, five patient have been taken. and this is a hospital

spokeswoman bringing us up to date. >> the code yellow was lifted off 3:30 this afternoon. the hospital remains on heightened alert and law enforcement remains on the scene to continue to support operations. the hospital is fully operational and business as usual. i will take a few questions. >> how many police officers were transported that? >> i can't confirm that. we have five adult patients brought to the hospital. we had five adult patients brought to the hospital. i cannot confirm fit was a police officer. >> you are not talking about beyond the original incident. >> all day. i don't know about that

particular moment you are thinking of. >> what was the nature of the bomb threat that triggered code yellow? >> i don't know how that bomb threat came in. i know there was a bomb threat that was credible. we looked into it. we went through our established protocols. we weren't through security and law enforcement to determine the threat was not credible, and our campus was safe. >> the parents of a victim confirmed their daughter received a lot of gunshot wound and she is in surgery at the hospital. can you confirm there is a young woman here attending a luncheon. >> there were five adult patients brought to the hospital from the incident of the day. i cannot comment on any times of injuries. >> have families been able --

>> we had a station set up for the families of those victims where they could stay together and, you know, be strong for one another. i cannot confirm if there is a police officer here. as of right now we do not have -- we are not on alert for any other patients. during the course of the bomb threat there was heightened security. armed security. there was law enforcement all around campus. so, yes, they were armed. and we remain on heightened alert just as a precaution into sure the safety of our patients and staff. somewhat about the protocol, what was going on?

the families of the vick timents have been notified and they have been directed where to go. >> why can't you confirm a police officer was brought here? >> i can't determine where any of the patients came from whether they were law enforcement or not. >> are some of your patients [inaudible] >> two of the victims are -- let me refer to my notes. we have two critical but stable. two are in fair and one is still being assessed. i am not aof whether they have -- i'm not aware of whether they have spoke within law enforcement. five adult patients. as far as hospitals? i would imagine that there are a

couple other hospitals in the area. i can't comment on what other hospitals were involved. >> when the call came in, what was the mood inside the hospital? how were you prepared to handle this mass casualty? >> as the number one level trauma centerrer. >> always staffed and equipped with ample staff, surgeons and nurse to than mass casualty incidents of this nature. we are always prepared to handle the worst of the worst injuries today just like any other day. i can't recall completely. i want to say the was over the course of a couple hours. but i can't say -- i can't give

a definitive answer. i do know additional staff was brought in. i don't know the number or what position. i don't know, i'm sorry. >> any comments from doctors about how things were handled today? >> i have not communicated with any of the medical staff. obviously they have been very busy doing their job taking care of these patients and that's what they are dedicated to do to make sure these patients are able to leave here to return home with their families very soon. lou: a bright assessment than i'm sure many of the families could have hoped for a couple hours ago. a spokeswoman for the loma linda medical center where five patients were taken, five victims of the shooting today. two of those victims are in critical condition, critical but stable.

one has not been assessed. suggesting that that patient came in later in what has been a very busy evening for this hospital. and two are in fair condition. so again the latest from the principle trauma center for the inland area which is san bernardino, san bernardino county there, and that's good news for the family certainly. i want to now give you a sense -- what happened today at the inland regional center, the government center there in san bernardino. this is marcos aguilera. his wife was among those working in the center when the gunmen

came in and she was an eyewitness and this is his account of what she saw and heard. >> she said the guys came in next to her office and started shooting. they locked themselves in her office. they seen bodies on the floor, and she said ambulance are taking people out in stretchers. she was able to get out of the building already. but there are still people inside. lou: those people inside of course ultimately were brought out safely. and evacuated from the medical center. tom ruskin, your thoughts at this point in the evening? >> i think everyone did what they trained and trained to do. loma linda medical center. she stuck up for herself when the reporters started picking on her a little bit.

you couldn't help for a better spokesperson. this is what the medical centers do. chances are the police officer who was also injured was taken to the number one trauma center. when the president of the united states goes through that area that trauma center is ready to take in the president god forbid something should happen to our president. so everyone did what they are basically paid and trained to do from the police officers to the emergency responders, being the fire department, ems, the ambulance people to the hospitals taking in the injured people. and maybe saving lives. we have two critical people hopefully within a couple days they will be released. >> when i hear stable after the word critical mire heart does a flip to the positive side. i hope that is the case tonight in loma linda. >> cities like new york are

going building by building to have these types of training sessions in case they have an sack tough shooter. they are using the critical response team to do that. that's what the police commissioner bill bratton is doing in the city. and that's going to be very important. if these shootings are going to be as frequent as they have bennett will be important in saving lives down the road. lou: one of the elements here, not every incidents can be prevented if this turns out to be an organized terrorist attack rather than something else i can't 10 find a label to describe something so lane sauce without motivation, it's going to be a very difficult time indeed for us to tea just to this new reality. wouldn't you say? >> yes, absolutely. i don't know if we can adjust to the new reality.

we can get to know that that's what's occurring. but adjusting somehow to me means accepting and i don't think we'll ever be able to do that. it's trying to figure out as dr. ablow said, trying to be proactive figuring out who is going do these. when you see a group of people like a group of terrorists doing something that's one thing. but a random individual takes it upon himself to do something insane by killing people, it's difficult to figure out. so we can never really accept it. we just have to understand it does happen and we have to do everything in our power to prevents sit from happening again. has off to the spokesperson from the loma linda center. sometimes you have to notoriety person to put before the camera. usually not the doctor or the medical technician.

lou: it's nice to see so much pride expressed by the spokeswoman for loma linda, representing as she does, all of those terrific surgeons, doctors, nurses caring for the victims, this tragic day, it's uplifting. i want to turn if i may very quickly to dr. daniel volger. he's a forensic psychiatrist as well. good to have you with us. i would like to get your sense of based on what we know, i'm going to ask you straight out. what in the hell is going none this country? >> well, lou, we have reset our societal thermostat. this has become the new normal. but this particular incident unlike some softers that have been more recent.

i think this one is different since we have multiple shooters and we don't have a clear motive, i said this on your show before. this is the price of living in a presociety. if we want to have the things that make up being americans, i think we'll have to accept the fact and i don't think accepting means surrendering, that this is the new normal and these incidents will happen again and again. lou: i'll join i think really all americans in saying let's pray this is not anything close to becoming the new normal. because it is -- it is becoming too routine. i think -- i'm so encouraged if there is anything positive in all of this it's that the san bernardino police shot count perpetrators and did so quickly. and i would like your sense, doctor, as to how important that is if it's important at all in

perhaps dissuading others who might conceive of such an act but now seeing the cost might think again. >> i don't think it dissuaded them. i think these people went into this with a clear agenda. it was premeditated it was a coordinated attack. i think they were hell bent on killing as many people as they could. i don't think we know their motive but we've have to accept these things are going to happen. and we cannot confuse prediction with prevention. there are things we can do to reduce the risk of this happening, but there is no way to completely eliminate it. lou: when you talk about confusing prediction with prevention, i think that should be, if you would, on a placard on the walls of everyone in homeland security, because the fact of the matter is, we expect them to prevent it. i are don't care much about the prediction.

so i want them to stay in the prevention business. i get nervous when i start hearing them say they can't be perfect 100% of the time. i think every american expects them to be realistically or not. i want to turn now to to examination here of what is happening to this body politic, this society of ours from a perspective of a man who participated in its politics and governance for some time. ed rollins, a former white house political director tore president reagan. republican strategist ed rollins good to have you here. i asked dr. volger, what the hell is going none this country? in my opinion i don't believe there is another strategist who knows more about our history and politics than you.

give us a sense from your perspective and the defend kids you travel. your reaction to what we are witnessing. it's a true change in this country. >> there is an inner expressed in lots of different ways. i think it one thing i would say is this is not a time for politics. this is not a time for the nra to run for commercials or basically candidates running for president to get up on their soap boxes and talk about repealing the second amendment. i think we should applaud the san bernardino police department who obviously did a superb job. you hope these things never happen, but they do happen. i just would hope we calm down and review this and find out what the causes. there are a lot of things going on in society. we have video games that advocate gun violence. we have movies all about gun violence. we have a lot of guns.

at the end of the day, that's what we are today and a lot of idiotic repeal this amendment or take guns away, it's just not going to happen in the short-run or hong-run. lou: it's too late. the political candidates, hillary clinton and the president obama weighed in with their ideological and partisan views. let me read a couple of them quickly. donald trump. he said california's shooting -- this is early on -- looks very bad, good luck to law enforcement and god bless. praying for the victims said jeb bush. their families and first responders. if anything is to be said at all. mike huckabee, bringing a for those affected by the shooting in california. ben carson my thoughts and prayers. then we get down to, you know --

i'm not going to read the comments of those who i think thought too much in the way of politics. but the country has got respond to this. and it has to be beyond the usual nonsense of we have to destroy the second amendment and we have got to have that ideological fight when we are talking up until today, we are talking about the mentally ill. we are going to find out what we are talking about here today. we are told in matter of moments we'll have long awaited comments from the police chief who led the san bernardino police department so effectively today. he's coming up in 3 minutes we are told. so we await that. >> the same debate could have taken place this morning before the events occurred.

word of prayer for the families. we have to get to the bottom of it and find out who these people are. unfortunately the remedies are not easy. people will buy guns because they are fearful. so i think to a certain extent a dialogue needs to take place and it's not yelling and screaming it's a realistic dialogue. >> an intelligent one that takes into account the fact that we are a nation that absolutely has a constitutional right to bear arms. we want those -- we want all citizens to exercise their rights without limit for every one of our bill of rights, for our entire constitution. we also want to deal with new threats and we want to focus on without political correctness or stifling public debate, what in

the world are we doing as a people in which we are not treating those who are mentally ill? we are not diagnosing those who desperately need society's help. we provided in so many ways and we run from it when we talk about the mentally ill. we'll find out as you say, ed rollins, shortly what motivated these three people. were you shocked when you found out there were three people? >> i was totally shocked. i have relatives in san bernardino. i know the community very well. i used to be a californian. i think the fact there were three people so organized, deliberate, they went into a christmas luncheon. it was a motivation, not a justification. lou: can we have such a rational conversation? we have a president who has been

reluctant to talk about the mentally ill but who has been eager to talk about gun control. we have the right to talk about the second amendment. but not stepping forward with an examination of those who were mentally ill in the country, is there a possibility we are going to elevate the discussion in such a way that we can get beyond ideology and reflexive initiatives by the left and the right? >> we are living in an incarceration nation. our mental health facilities have been replaced with correctional facility. a lot of these people have a history of mental illness. i don't think treating mental illness or going after under

served populations will solve the problems. by the's something we need to address in our society. >> your sense is that will be a likelihood rather than a hope? >> people are motivated bid inspiration or desperation. i think we are getting to the point of desperation after seeing these moment almost every week. lou: what will be interesting to watch is how we do respond when we find out the motivation. when we find out the way in which we are going to have to respond because this is an anomaly. a departure from everything. single shooter, mentally ill. now we may have three mentally ill or three terrorists. perhaps we'll learn more from the police. >> it has to be an intellectual argument.

it can't be raw emotion. people will start yelling and screaming at each other and you will never make progress on that front. lou: there is the police chief. let's go to him right now. >> i'm not going to go through all the details we went through in the first press conference. but say this. since that time we are still working on the building here at the inland regional center. as officers we are searching the building. there are suspicious device and one is believed to be a suspicious device. they are taking a slow approach to processing that building. we'll be self hours as the bomb squad continues to work that part.

we followed up on some tips that took us to a residence in the city of redlands. when officers were setting up on that residence to watch, there was a vehicle seen leaving that was suspected of possibly being involved. there ended up being a pursuit of that vehicle and eventually that pursuit came back to san bernardino avenue between mountainview and richardson in the city of san bernardino where the suspect vehicle stopped than was an involve-involved shooting. we have multiple officers involved in the shooting. we have two suspects that have dead at the scene, one of them male, one is a female. one police officer was wound. he has injuries that are not considered to be life-threatening an is at a local hospital and is expected to be okay. of the suspects that are dead at scene. one is a male, one is a female. they were dressed in kind of assault-style clothing, i think

that's the best way to term it. they were armed with assault rifles. they were both armed with handguns and there is also some sensitive stuff around the vehicle they are not real sure. they are taking a cautious approach to dealing with the vehicle in case there is more explosives there. with that i'll turn it over to the f.b.i. to talk about some parts of the investigation. >> thank you, chief. my name is david boudage. i'm the assistant director in the los angeles office. bow -- ich. -- bowdich. we want to extend our sadness to the families of the victims. there were many victims involved here. some are deceased. others are wound and being

treated as we speak. this is a tragedy and we'll continue to apply all the resources necessary to insure us, the sheriff's department, the san bernardino police department and the atf work this thing together to assure we have chased down every lead on this case. we are bringing in f.b.i. resources. we have agents in redlands, california, right now. we do not know the content of what's in that house. but previous active shooter incidents have shown us there are times when device are left behind. we do not have any indications there are devices to my knowledge, but we'll proceed cautiously into that house to preserve life and limb of our employees. we are bringing evidence response teams to work hand in hand with our state and local partners on the officer-involved

shooting scenes as well as the scene here where we have multiple victim as well as the house. we'll continue to go down this road. this is a marathon, not a sprint. i know one of the big questions that will come up is, is this terrorism? i am still not willing to say we know that for sure. we are definitely making some movements that is is a possibility. we are making adjustments to our investigation. it's a possibility but we don't know that yet and we are not willing to go down that road yet. >> what is the relationship between the suspects? >> unknown at this point. >> [inaudible] >> i don't know that. >> there is a third suspect and i don't know the disposition of that suspect. i would defer that question to the chief. what i would tell you on this investigation.

we'll go where the evidence take us. it's possible it goes down that road, it's also possible it does not. we are just not sure yet. and when we are fairly sure, we'll let you know. >> do you have a motive for this? >> there are a number of potential -- there are a few potential thing but we just don't know and i'm not willing to go down that road. this is a fluid, active investigation. we are still gathering facts. we are still today energy some of these facts because the scene is thriewn throughout the stay and into -- the scene is strewn throughout the city and into another city. we'll get there when we get there. >> as i say, we had an officer-involved shooting between mountainview and richardson. there were two people in the vehicle. both of those people are deceased.

there was a third person seen running away. we don't know if they were involve. we have that person detained. we don't know if they were involved. it's possible they were not. in addition to that and the reason we put things out on social media to shelter in place is there were folks that called in and reported they heard somebody jumping fences and they reported some of that activity in the neighborhood. we don't know if that was responding officers but we took a cautious approach and locked down the neighborhood and asked people to shelter in place. as of a couple minutes ago we got word that search has been wrapped up. we feel that area is safe and we can lift that shelter in place area there. we do not have a motive. i do not have that right now. keep in mind i said there were some thing that were causing the

officers to take a cautious approach in approaching the suspects. so we are not that far in the investigation yet. >> [inaudible] >> i don't know. not a suicide vest, no. >> do you believe the situation is all clear and people are safe or are there still more shooters potentially out there? >> we feel confident about the neighborhood where the officer-involved shooting took place that we secured that and there is nobody outstanding there. on the broader scale of the investigation, as i said early on we had information there were potentially three shooters. we are at a point where we are tracking down that information. we are going to try to continue to identify if there was a third person involved or more people that might have been involved in the planning. we are still early on that part of the investigation. >> there is a report out that at

the holiday party somebody level angrily and came back with people with guns. >> i heard they were at a holiday party-type event. somebody did leave but we have no idea if that is the person that came back. somebody did leave. there was some type of dispute when somebody left that party. but we have no idea if those are the people hat came back. they were assaulted-style -- they were assault-style weapons. that type of weapon, yes. >> [inaudible] >> there was a report that they potentially threw what is identified as a pipe bomb. i think we rendered that device safe. we are still working on the vehicle and making sure it is safe. >> can you gift description of

these suspects and their appearance? >> just the way it was described to me, they came dressed and equipped and the people we have at the scene that are deceased are dressed in that way in dark kind of tactical gear is the best way i'll put it. >> ethnicity? >> i don't know. >> -- search warrant. >> we understand you served a search warrant. is it your understanding they were holed up in the step area? >> there was information in the early part of the investigation as we started to develop information there will be was one particular focus area we went. there was one particular focus area we went to and it was one of those follow-up focus areas that led us to the house in redlands that led to the officer-involved shooting. the address was connected to the follow-up that we had.

i don't know hot suspects are nor do i know if that's where they live. they were they were carrying assaulted-style weapons. i don't know the caliber or make or model of the gun. there were two people in the suv, both of them are deceased. one male, one female. they were engaged in a gun battle with police officers. we had several officers who shot at them and into the vehicle. i don't know what bullet caused their death. we have a third person seen leaving the area. he's detained. we do not know the extent of this involvement if any. the first one was detained close to where there was the officer-involved shooting. >> there was an arrest on on --n

colton street. >> there was somebody detained. >> did he have weapons on him? >> i don't have that information. >> [inaudible] >> i don't know. >> ways thei -- ways their nationality? -- what is their nationality? >> i don't know. >> we'll try to do another press conference at 9:00. lou: you have been rinsing to the san bernardino sheriff's department. the third suspect is now more or less it appears a person of interest and it's fairly clear at least by the chief's description, that they are not

entirely sure what to make of him, and the possible third suspect in all of this. we want to bring in a former f.b.i. agent from the l.a. field office. bobby, good to have you with us. your thoughts about what the chief just shared. >> thank you, lou. i think that the investigators in that room with that third subject, and the guys down at the truck started working on the profile of the two deceased suspects probably know and have a much better idea of what were the motivations than the chief even knew or was willing to let out at this point. i think the investigation is probably moving forward very rapidly now that we know the identities of at least the two of deceased subjects. i think within a day or two we'll all know the information that they have and i think that will -- you know, will tend to

put a lot of people at ease about what happened. the mystery of why this happened is what instilled all this fear and public age stir it among people. once we know the motivation, the investigators may know that by now. but it's not solid enough for them to make public yet. >> it's reassuring i'm sure to the people of riverside and redland there that the police chief says he's reasonably sure of their safety after going through the neighborhoods around the crime scene at the regional center there. and so they seem to be putting a lot on the suspect. and the police chief made it fairly clear, too, that he was not going to spec later on motivation. i don't know whether -- bobby,

you worked with the assistant director for the l.a. f.b.i. office but he made it clear he was not ready to talk about terrorism in connection with this case. your reaction? >> i worked with dave for many years. he was my boss and came to my retirement party. that has to be his stated position. he didn't right out or confirm it. it would be a difficult thing to confirm. they have to work with an open mind. they can't rule out anything. but i think probably in the inner circle of the investigating picture is probably developing pretty rapidly about what happened here. the witnesses at this center. this wasn't a symbolic target from the individual targeted or the location targeted. so the chance of domestic or international terrorism to me in my mind is a little bit lessened because of the lack of

symbolism. if they wanted a higher body count there were plenty of places around that could have offered that as a target. i would be surprised if the individuals did not have some connection to the people in that room or a person in that room as the investigation unfolds. lou: it's interesting what it does to the mind's speculation when there are three suspects it lead us to a vast number of questions. we have still many questions, more than enough. but the idea that it would be man and woman, two suspects and perpetrators, or rather than three for the changes, the calculus of suspicion and speculation. >> these two, pure speculation on my part. but they could have been romantically linked. if they were and one of them had a particular disagreement or

beef with snob that room they could have been in on it together. it looks like there was a lot of advanced planning to this thing. so it doesn't seem like the typical somebody has a beef, somebody runs out and gets a gun and comes back. it seems there was advanced planning to this. that those it off from typical workplace violence type of incident. but remember that even here in l.a. we have had typical crimes carried out in atypical matters. we had bank of america bank robbery. we never saw a bank robbery carried out with the planning and equipment those two individuals carried it out that day. lou: i believe you are referring to the body armor the term traitors wore that day. >> the body armor, the weapons they carried and the tactics. one was reloading while the other covered him.

he used a moving vehicle as cover. the tactics and things like that we hadn't seen that in a typical bank robbery. so this could be -- i head to use the term typical workplace incident. but it could be carried not you an atypical manner. we could have something like that on our hand. lou: it's human nature to speculate and we'll not be unforgiving of that speculation. we have so much curiosity about what has befalling 14 citizens in san bernardino, california. 17 wound, 14 killed. gavin, the isn't director, i thought it was an emphatic

reluctance much as bobby said, i had the feeling that there was a greater reservation than typical that this an act of terrorism after listen together assistant director speak. i don't know if he intended to make that emphatic. but that what's i inferred. how about you? >> i agree with you. i think what he said and the waive he said it left a lot of speculation. is it in fact -- dose have more information that would target -- point the arrows at the terrorism aspect of a case. and that remains to be seen, i guess. i think he's dopght best he can under the circumstances. he wants to be part of the group of law enforcement people there, not just stage anybody at this particular point in time. lou: you sense in all of this, don't you, that this has been as

close a coordination among various agencies, local san bernardino police, san bernardino fire department, the f.b.i., all of these agencies working together, and with great success to be where we are at this hour tonight with two suspects, likely two perpetrators and perhaps a third in custody, but two dead. this has been amazing police work mass it not? >> it certainly has. as tom points out earlier. the people working together the wait they have worked together ever since 9/11 the spirit of cooperation, one team come poatds much -- come posed of a lot of people -- composed of a lot of people from different areas. areas. the fact that they did this in a short period of time and were

able to hold the information to their vests. and the training, training, training to prepare for these kinds of events. lou: credit to the inland center where this tragedy took place. a group of people, some almost 700 of them who work for disabled adults next door, an adult daycare center, the great service they render. having taken the responsibility to every single month, the entire center trains for an active shooter. the preparation of those employees, their readiness is truly remarkable, and of course bobby chico nerks, the good fortune of having s.w.a.t. teams training blocks away when this horrible incidents took place.

that was at least it appears significant good foretune, was it not? >> i would say so. particularly with the amount of fire power and the amount of people they could have injured. but i will say that the swat team ofs routinely handle -- are trained to respond to active shooters. if i was the crisis manager for the f.b.i., wee trained with san bernardino and l.a.p.d. and riverside county. we practiced coming together so we can move the tactical ball count field and get the scene secure and start the investigation. almost simultaneous to the tactical portion so the investigation can yield some valuable intelligence to the tactical teams. and that might have happened

today when you saw them moving -- what the chief mentioned was a focus area. something brought them to that focus area. most likely some investigator interviewing witnesses. the across tall teams are using that actual intelligence being developed by investigators to move the tactical teams and you saw how that resulted in success. lou: much appreciated a police department of san bernardino and their success. bobby chicone and bill gavin, thank you for your insight and contributions here throughout this coverage. i want to turn to my good friend ed rollins. give us, if you will, the broad perspective as you see it is to the tragedy that we witness and the good fortune to have such

great law enforcement officers insuring the public safety. >> the large number of. the kinds of incidents, the schools whatever. sends shock waves to people. lou: the politics here are simple. we are a nation with many challenges. we have seen san bernardino rise to a tragic challenge. and our hearts go out to the families of all of the victims, the dead and the wound. 14 killed. 17 wounded. two gunmen. four gunmen killed by san bernardino police in a shootout. one of the suspects killed male, another female.

a third suspect or not, a person of interest is in police custody. and we thank you for being with us as the san bernardino police has brought this tragedy to a conclusion for law enforcement. good night from new york. >> his words become her quest. >> i made a promise to my father that i would show his artwork to the world. >> these pages, her road map. >> here is a man who went through so much horror. >> but can she recover what the nazis stole from him? >> what do you think went on in that room? ♪ i'm jamie colby, and, today, i'm in rockland county, new york, an hour north of new york city. i am meeting a viewer who wrote me about her strange