loudobbsnews. we thank you for being with us tonight. that's it for us. conservative commentator pamela dwellen among our guested monday. have a great night from new york. >> gunmen were throwing grenade into the crowd. what might happen during mass shootings if citizens had guns. many americans do own guns to protect themselves. but many politicians and the media want more limits. >> do you think reinstating the ban on assault weapons and banning high capacity magazines would do any good? yes. john: politicians say student don't need to protect themselves. and we must teach kid that even things that look like guns are evil. he picked up that pop tart and

made shooting noises and point it. john: i tried to get a lye gun license. they rejected my application, but they approved his. >> i have a license to carry in new york. can you believe that? and he jokes about defending himself. but many of you are self-defenseless. that's our show tonight. >> announcer: and now john stossel. john: the mass shootings in san bernardino and paris provoked poll figures to make claims about how they will keep people safe. most democrats want more gun laws right after the san bernardino attack president obama spoke about ... >> common sense gun safety law, stronger background checks.

>> while the quick calls for more gun control make people feel good, it doesn't mean it will make life better. many criminals break laws already on the books. so what will new laws do. guns protect people, too. the san bernardino shootings were quick. the killers shot and drove off. but many mass shootings go on and on. that's what happened in paris in the theater and restaurants. the innocent were basically self-defenseless. all were unarmed. most chose to be. but some are unarmed because the french government makes it so hard to get a gun permit. it's possible, but you have to convince police you are exposed to exceptional risks of harm. some parts of america have rules

like that and that's why i couldn't get a gun permit. terrorists were able to kill, reload, and kill again. had some concert-goers been armed, what might have happened. jack mccalmly says probably fewer people would have been killed because concert-goers might have killed the terrorists. more guns might have meant less killing. but leah barrett says more guns don't make people safer. leah is with new yorkers against gun violence. >> if you look at our country, we are a country of 310 million people. we have almost as many guns. if guns made you safer we would be one of the safest countries in the world and we are not. we have too many guns and they fall into the wrong hand, terrorists, domestic abusers, violent felons, and children.

john: i'm not sure what regulating properly would mean. >> we are talking about more gun laws, i hate that term. john: what wrong with common sense gun laws. >> it sound like the many common sense, we should all do this. in reas some of these laws with counterproductive. i was promoted to the rank of captain and in charge of the gun licencing division. it was driven down our throat. get guns off the street. it didn't matter where we got the guns from, it didn't matter whether it was a non-violent offender or someone causing harm. in baltimore city 85% of gun owe fenders are repeat offenders. why aren't they put in jail. john rrp what about paris? would paris have been different 2/3 if more people had been armed?

>> more people would have died. the aurora shooting happened at the midnight shooting. if people in that theater were packing heat. it was dark and confusing and more people started shooting more people of course would have died. john: how do you know? >> experts tell us that. they don't want everyone shooting. john: if you are lying there hiding and the guy reloads. >> i think most law enforcement people would tell you -- >> i talked to many, many law enforcement officials. most of them want citizens to be and and have the ability to respond and carry. john: most? i here police saying don't arm yourself. >> most law enforcement sow officials i -- enforcement officials i know.

john: they say they will shooted the wrong people. they don't know what they are doing. >> as an officer i have showed up where there is chaos and confusion. >> in manhattan, the shooting at the empire state building. nypd officers were trying to apprehend someone but bystanders were hit. a lot of states, six states you don't even have to have a permit to carry a concealed weapon. let's deal with guns what we did with cars. we regulate cars. you have to have a license and registration and insurance. john: i get. john: let jack talk. >> you have a trooper who is assigned to an atf task force.

his number one goal is to get guns. he's running the criminal record to find convictions for those with hunting licenses. he's going through areas of the state with no gun crime. there is only so much time in the day, why aren't we targeting violent offenders? the laws are so confusing in the state of maryland even the experts debate over the gun laws. my guys would have to brief me on what the laws mean and what they stood for. john: leah, you object to the begun carry laws. 10 found no difference. one found an increase. >> what study are you quoting? john: yeah. i can't list all 29. i'm sure john lott is in there. more guns less crime. his research has been totally discredited.

john: i heard that lie so often. >> "washington post." he should what a great professor he is. he claims his data was lost on his hard drive. john: one of 100 studies. >> he cannot back it up. neither can gary clack. john: you have been discredited. what about this chart more guns less crime. let's not talk about john lott. and he's a pseudoacademic. there is no serious academic who takes him seriously. >> i take him very seriously. i found him to be very rely act.

>> that's laughable. john: you dispute that since gun ownership has gone up crime is down? >> gun ownership is down. for host household it's down. what's happening is more american household are buying more guns. they are stockpiling. john rrp sales are up and crime is down. >> the gun industry knows this and that's why they are scared and trying to develop new markets selling military assault purpose to citizens. they know that their white male demographic is going away. it's all about money. follow the money. john: i'm following the deaths. crime is down. >> it's this type of paranoia.

a number of studies are miscalculated and misquoted on her own website which are inaccurate. we are looking at the studies. please tell me one gun law that you would implement that would prevent this. >> licencing and registration. >> absolutely not. john: leah said so many people can get guns. the supreme court rules individuals have the right to keep and bear arms. concealed carry is not illegal in every state. so since people sometimes threaten me, i wanted to get a carry permit. i assumed i could. but i tried it near new york city. they make it very hard. first you must fill out a 17-page form.

the form says i must know the definition of other weapons like dwraffity knife and metal knuckle knife and kung fu star. i just want a gun for safety. they require applicants to read and understand all this information. it took hours and hours to fill out the forms. we had to call the police six times to clare guys what questions meant. finally it was done. i have to get this notarized. then you have to go in person to police headquarters. here they fingerprinted me, asked me to list reasonsy should be allowed to have a gun. then they charged me a $430 application fee. they said they have would get back to me. it took a long time. then they said i had to return

to this headquarters fear second in-person inltsd view. they said that i needed to produce the court documents and i had to documented threats against me. 52 days later they sent me a letter rejecting my application for a carry permit. they said i could get a license to keep a gun in my apartment. but i feel safe in my apartment. i want a permit to carry where i feel threatened. but i was told you famed to demonstrate a special need. special need? what about what the supreme court said? the second amendment guarantees our rights. i all so like what mark wrote on facebook. my gun, my life, my choice. but not in new york city where bureaucrats told me you have to

show special needs. they say that in washington, d.c. where fox 5 reporter emily miller wanted to get a gun and you did get one finally. >> a gun and a permit to carry a gun. john: but it's rare. >> very exclusive club. i wanted a gun because d.c. is not safety. and i'm tired of walk count street being scared. but in order to apply for a gun permit you have to have documented specific threats against your life. i applied on two reports of threats against me. but thin also said something you are familiar with, i said isis has said we are targeting american journalists. i put both my specific threats and general threats. i got approved.

john: and the chief said to you -- >> just for the two figure threats of the people wants to kill you, not for the isis threats. behind the scenes they told me if you have a specific threat against your life they will grant a permit. because if you do get killed we are in a lot of trouble. john: you wrote a book about your experience titled ... >> emily gets her gun. john: an advisor told me i applied the wrong way it's easy if you have use political reasons. >> i have a license to area in new york. but can you imagine with trump somebody says all these big monsters aren't around. he's easy pickings. >> every state is different. d.c. is rare. the chief actually personally

decides seem person. i think the process that you have gone through here in new york is a more political process. are you famous and well connected. but in d.c. it's do you have documents. and merit based. we've actually have somebody to who wants to kill you. congratulations. you get one of these cards. john: coming up, myths about guns. but what if you could see more of what you wanted to know? with fidelity's new active trader pro investing platform, the information that's important to you is all in one place, so finding more insight is easier. it's your idea powered by active trader pro. another way fidelity gives you a more powerful investing experience.

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jeb bufrom our president:h you will not hear we are at war with radical islamic terrorism. it is the struggle that will determine the fate of the free world. the united states should not delay in leading a global coalition to take out isis with overwhelming force. their aim is our total destruction. we can't withdraw from this threat or negotiate with it. we have but one choice:

to defeat it. vo: right to rise usa is responsible for the content of this message.

>> we know other countries in response to one mass slooght been able to craft laws that almost eliminate mass shootings. john: really? almost eliminate mass shootings sense the president with common sense gun laws? it must be true because after the shooting in oregon he said this. >> we are the only developed country on earth where this happens. john: but that's a myth. the author of "hands off my gun" says the gun control crowd repeats lots of myths about guns. she is radio host dana lo oregon sch. >> every every day i hear some

sort of myth that comes from the anti-gun lobby. don't forget what happened in norway just a couple years ago. that was the single biggest mass shooting in humanity. john: 69 people killed. >> they have massive gun control. australia and the u.k. john: in australia they had a mass shooting. they confiscated people's guns and crime is down in australia. >> it's interesting that you mention that because private gun ownership level in australia is back to what it was pre1996 confiscation. that's something they omit. down* in lots of places where

they legalize guns they allow conceal carry permits and crime and gun crime drop. >> dramatically they do. that's called the florida model. other states were paying attention to what's happening to florida's crime so sight. criminals are not going to pick soft targets. john: surveys of prisoners say i'm much more scared of the victims pack than i am of the police. >> they know, they see an individual, if they see a woman just out and about and she and armed they know that woman will fight to defend her life. john: people where i live they have a hard time getting their brain around this. more guns? people will get drunk and shoot each other. my left-wing neighbors are just set about what they call the assault weapons.

and that includes our next president. >> do you think reinstating the assault on assault weapons and banning high-capacity magazines would do any good? >> yes, i do. john: and they all applaud. this is about assault weapons. who need an assault weapon to defend themselves. >> they can't define what is an assault weapon. you can have a semi automatic or select fire capability going fully automatic. by you have firearms i will let rat people. they think because you have a black rifle with a coach on it and a pistol grip on it and it makes it shootier and that means it's fully automatic. these are gun i will litter rall people. there is semi auto and fully automatic.

john: fully automatic is a machine gun. voo. >> it means you pull the trigger once and it goes until you release the trigger. semi-automatic it means you get a built for each squeeze. john: a tale of one rifle shows two guns. the second wins an assault rifle and is illegal because it has a collapsable stock and pistol grip. >> they are cosmetic features. if you have this rifle and you put three or more cosmetic features on it it will be rendered illegal. it does nothing to change the machinations of the firearm. the firearm shoots the same it's still a semi-automatic firearm. if you add these accessories some how it makes it more lethal. it didn't make sense.

john: i'm told 40% of gun sales is done without background checks. >> that's false. that was in the 60s before the brady bill went into effect. we are putting lot of faith in a background system that's incredibly fraudulent. one of the things whenever you hear either democrats or anti-gun advocates, when they say we were able to stop x amount of criminals from purchasing firearms. if your name is too similar or too long they count them as a whole in their statistics. we are relying on a system that's incredibly flawed. john: i'm told if you need defense call 911. >> you have to wait on average 20 minutes. i had an incident where a

firearm protected my life. my grandparents called the law and it was 25 minute before the law showed up. but thankfully my grandfather was armed. you are your own first responder. john: next, blacks and guns. attitude are changing. i have asthma...

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john: anti-gun politicians say i'm for the second amendment, i would never take away americans' right to hunt. but the second amendment isn't about hunting. the founders added gun rights to the second amendment because people have a right to defend themselves from criminals and the state. they want to stop the government

from disarming them like the british government did. if any group should fear oppression it's blacks. but for years they supported gun control. he explained why blacks have long had good reasons to arm themselves. >> frederick douglass, his equip was a good revolver is the best response to a slave catcher. the winchester rifle deserves a plate of honor in every home. there were incidents of lynching by black community by people armed. john: you draw a distinction private violence versus state violence. >> they were very clear that private violence is the reaction

to political violence. what martin luther king and all the luminaries explained was we are not going to achieve political rights through violence. we'll not have a revolution. john: but violence is fine against the klu klux klan or private people attacking. >> it's response to an imminent threat. in the next 60 seconds if something happens to you the state is irrelevant. our laws of self defense says you can respond in kind with violence when you are facing imminent threats. john: the young country passed gun control laws. in virginia it barred clubs, guns or swords to slaves or free blacks. >> most of the gun control we are familiar with was focused on blacks or those outside with you

primarily black. even martin luther king was denied a permit to carry a pistol and his begun after a bombing at his home because he didn't show quote good cause. john: . sometimes private tyrants who were owners of plantations would make as a condition of employment and living in the area, this requirement that blacks give up any firearms and they not own firearms. john: despite this history, blacks have largely been supporters of gun control laws. >> this is certainly true for the black political class. and it's also accurate to say blacks overwhelmingly support the democratic party. but when you look at the polling

blacked fave concealed carry. there has always been a continues between the commitment of the black political class to gun control opposed to people at the grassroots. john: jesse jackson was arrested protesting gun. >> in its early staings the naacp cut its organizational teeth on defending blacks engaged in armed self-defense against mobs and state violence. one of the most notable cases, dr. sweet defended his new home against a mob. the naacp hired clarence dare otoe defend him. the sweet went on a national tour, they rated lots of money for the naacp and that seeded

the defense fund. what happened in the 1970s, the members of that rising political class embraced supply side gun control as the solution to their problems. lots of people latched on to it as an easy answer. what we see days the reality is simply different. john: thank you, nick johnson. a woman who says owning a gun protected her family. ridiculous number of miles... or there's a fee to use them. i know. it's so frustrating. they'd be a lot happier with the capital one venture card. and you would, too! why? it's so easy with venture. you earn unlimited double miles on every purchase, every day. just book any flight you want then use your miles to cover the cost. now, that's more like it. what's in your wallet?

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john: when i ask you on social media, what are your thoughts on gun control. sonny tweetedy defense is my responsibility. i'll not outsource it to the state. i like the way he fraitds that.

police say don't buy a gun, call us. but as sunny said, then you have to hope the police arrive on time. but if someone threatens you now, what are the odds someone will get there on time. we men are usually physically strong and that's why our previous guest got behind this nra ad called moms like me. >> if a mom puts a gun to the face of a home invading thug and makes him run for his life, the story gets buried, but if she is unarmed and murdered the cameras will be at the scene before the police. john rrp the media rarely cover assault prevented by a gun. but christina says it's important to report that. >> more laws and more regulations don't top someone hell bent on causing destruction and harm.

every law on the books my stalker broke. john: you were being stalked by someone, you complained, told the police about him and got a restraining order. >> he continued to offend and go to jail and every time he got out he would reoffend. another law wasn't going to stop him. but the unmistakable he sound of chambering a shotgun round did. john: you never heard from him again after he heard that sound. he went on to commit more crimes. but not at my house. john: you put in fences, secured glass, motion he tech tore lights. but the on thing that worked -- >> was a gun. we did everything we could to make sure this guy left me alone.

and it was not until he knew i had a weapon that he stopped stalking me. and he went after other people but he did not come back after me again. john: some moms worried about safety want gun control. one group made this ad showing kids hiding under school desks during a mass shooting drill. >> our children are facing it every day, so when are we going to. take action. join us. john: there is an attitude, we have to do something, pass a law. >> if someone has a propensity to break laws, another law is not going to stop them. we have gun-free zones. does that stop people coming in with firearms intent on causing harms? those laws don't stop them.

john: some politicians say don't use guns, there are other ways to protect yourselves. >> that's why we have call boxes and safe zones and the whistles. because you just don't know who you are going to be shooting at. reporter: call boxes, safe zones, whistles. >> no, thank you. there was the college in colorado that said if you are being attacked or raped you should urinate on yourself or involve it. no shah thank you. john: they really did say that. urinate on yourself. >> they believe that's going to stop someone intent on causing harm. if a person is coming after me, i'm not going to entrust my safety on vomiting or urinating on myself. i'm going to have a weapon to protect myself. john: gabby giffords wants more gun control.

>> we don't agree about everything. but we can agree on this. dangerous people with guns are a threat to women. john: your answer to that? >> dangerous people with any weapon can be a threat to women. that's why i believe women should have the right to defend themselves. let's call about a woman in new jersey who was stabbed to death by her former boyfriend. he didn't need a gun to kill her. she was waiting for a permit. all the paperwork, she had been waiting and waiting for her right to defend herself. knowing that a violent felon was after her. john: thank you, christina ribali. coming up, kids getting punished

for doing this and chewing pop tarts into the shape that some bureaucrat said looked like a gun. one 11-year-old was suspended for just talking about guns. that's next. no matter how fast the markets change, at t. rowe price, our disciplined investment approach remains. we ask questions here. look for risks there. and search for opportunity everywhere. global markets may be uncertain. but you can feel confident in our investment experience... ... around the world. call a t. rowe price investment specialist, or your advisor... ...and see how we can help you find global opportunity. t. rowe price. invest with confidence.

jeb bufrom our president:h you will not hear we are at war with radical islamic terrorism. it is the struggle that will determine the fate of the free world. the united states should not delay in leading a global coalition to take out isis with overwhelming force. their aim is our total destruction. we can't withdraw from this threat or negotiate with it. we have but one choice: to defeat it. vo: right to rise usa is responsible for the content of this message.

hand apparently, they also lovee stickers.ing. what's up with these things, victor? we decided to give ourselves stickers for each feature we release. we read about 10,000 suggestions a week to create features that as traders we'd want to use, like social signals, a tool that uses social media to help with research. 10,000 suggestions. who reads all those? he does. for all the confidence you need. td ameritrade. you got this.

june * we want our kids to be -- john: we want our kids to be safe but some school bureaucrats are so freaked out they impose insane zero toll a rans rules. this boy ate a pop tart the wrong way. >> i kept biting it and it kind of looked like a gun. >> he picked up that pop tart, made gun noises and shooting noises and pointed it at children. john: this reporter is breathless like the child shot up the school. it's hysteria. >> i'm glad that i'm not in school today. the things we did back then. we made real threats. we thought they were funny. we played cops and robbers and cowboys and indians. you definite lire can't do that. but people are doing everything

they can to create a society free from guns and violence. john: in pennsylvania a 5-year-old girl had a small he slow kitty gun bubble gun. she was us pended because the school said she made a terrorist threat. >> we had machine gun bubble blowers so we could play war and blow bubbles at the same time. john: kids get punished for playing with toy guns off school property. the virginia beach school system suspended these 13-year-olds because they westerly firing on

private property. reporter: the school reached out based on what he was doing to school property. >> kids don't play dangerous enough games. we had dodge obama and we would pummel each other. now that they removed all violence from childhood they have to come down on kids with toy gun. john: he was us pended for the year. the daily news * first graders us spend for using fingers as guns, playing cops and robbers. an 11-year-old suspends for talking about guns. this cute little boy, a 6-year-old was suspends for pointing this finger the shape of a gun. >> look at him. he looks dangerous, doesn't he?

john: this is my son. my wife took away his guns. but he would just point or use carrots for guns. >> my daughter and i were on the playground. a new york dad came over and said no guns. my daughter walked up to the dad and said it's not real. john: i like this par did called "straight out of home room." ♪ every person in my past better take my advice ♪ ♪ if i ever draw my weapon you will be praying to christ ♪ ♪. john require' not far from what you see in hip hop video ofs but they have actual video ofs, not

pop tarts. this is a great parody. john: i could see people discouraging from having real guns in these hip hop videos. >> it's why any pop laugh culture that features guns and violence and explosions is so popular because drained all this excite many out of kids' lives and they will turn to their entertainment. john: the real reason we have a second amendment. tyrants and terrorism. your daughter can have sleepovers. your son can hang out with friends. your kids can play... and drive you crazy. you don't realize how lucky you are that you're children are healthy...until they're not. the laboratories at st. jude children's research hospital may not be in your community ...but our discoveries are. our research helps kids across america.

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john: today lots of people say americans don't need to bear arms anymore. we don't live in the woods where we have to fight off animals. we have the police to protect us and no occupying army threatens us in our house. >> the british are not coming. we don't need all these guns to kill people. john: he went on to say the russians aren't coming either. he's probably right about that. if they did come, they would come with bombs so what good would our small firearms do? that's why many americans where i live say the second amendment is out of date. but it isn't. just as the first amendment applies to modern tv and the internet, the second amendment

applies today. what counts is the principle behind it. americans have a right to defend ourselves and our families. a personal gun won't hold off a modern army. but you don't have to be equally armed to benefit. the colonists held off the british because they didn't know who among us was armed. the british could never if feel safe in oppressing us. thomas jefferson wrote what country can preserve its liberties if rulers are not warned from time to time their people preserve the spirit of predistance. let them take arms. i don't plan to shoot oppressive regulators who come to my house. but government will be less likely to go too far if they know more people are armed. the most foolish mistake we could make is to allow the

subject races to possess arms. mist shows conquerors who allowed subject races to carry arms prepared their own downfall. that was from adolph hitler. he wasn't alone. many oppressors disarmed their people. the syrian resistance is possible only because many syrians disoh paid. -- disobeyed. police department say you are not trained, you don't know how to use it. they are dangerous. if you are threatened call us. but if somebody is attacking me, the police probably won't be much help by the time they get here. they have will draw a chalk line around my body and maybe they will catch my killer but i want to protect myself. i was surprised by what washington, d.c.'s police chief

said. >> run, hide or fight. >> what we tell them is the facts of the matter is that most active shooters kill most of the victims in 10 minutes or less. the best place in the country will be a 5-7 minute response. if you are in an option to take it gunman out. that's counterintuitive to what cops tell people. we tell people don't take action, call 911. don't intervene in a robbery. we never told people take action. this is a different scenario. >> you are telling them that now? >> we are. john: they make it tough for people to take action. d.c. police have only grants 51 gun permits. politicians talk about bearing arms for hunting.

but it's allowing all of us to protect ourselves from criminals and tyrants. that's our show. see you next week. >> he was the man who had everything... >> this has about 750 to 800 horsepower. >> ...but never enough of these. >> he told me he was bringing in about one tank a week. >> i imagine a small country could win a war with these. >> yeah, i hear that a lot. >> my dad started a tradition of getting an old, beat-up car, and then he would crush it with a tank in the field out here. >> his death puts his heirs on a mission. >> is this what your dad would want? >> you push up on that. [ engine turns over ] >> just like that, she comes to life. >> and talk about sticker-shock and awe. >> was the auction a nail-biter? >> you bet it was. >> $300,000. $350,000. sold. ♪