>> and donald trump and some of the others are going to be there. we have a special invite. hillary clinton, please, we would love toenlt taken you on new year's eve. merry christmas, everybody see you tomorrow. >> merry christmas. >> log on to foxandfriends.com for after the show. gas urnnder $2. that didn't mean more gifts under the tree. good morning. i'm in for brenda buttner. this is "bulls and bears." consumers saving over 500 bucks from the low pump prices. when the final numbers come in, it's not expected to pump up holiday sales. why not? the bulls and bears this week. gary b. smith, jonas, john along with suzy welch and chuck. welcome all. suzy, consumers have more cash in their pockets, but you don't think that goosed holiday sales, why not? >> people are not splurging. slow, economic growth is the new

normal in america. there are pockets of sensational things in silicon valley. most of the country feel on the edge with job security. the drop in oil prices is why it's crushing companies profitability. college graduates are not getting the jobs. that puts a dent in the debt. on top of this, because of terrorism, you have a psychological dynamic. this has been going on for longer than just this fall. gary b., to you. let's talk about the spending with consumers. it's been falling for some time, now, right? >> exactly and rightfully so. suzy alluded to a couple good points. when i look at the economy, there are three pillars. if people have jobs and what's the price of their house. wages haven't budged in 30 years. the labor force participation rate has been dropping like a

rock. if you track that and oil prices, they are going in the same direction, 62.5%. the jobs that this administration tout are being created are part time jobs. finally, housing prices. there's a good part of the country under water in '07. just for inflation, people haven't made a dime since 2002. no wonder people aren't out there spending. even if you have a job and protesters blocking you at the mall of america from spending your money. >> what that has to do with anything, i have no idea. but, chuck, to you. a lot of people out there would say 550 bucks per consumer, no big deal. how much is that? not enough. i don't know a retailer in this country that wouldn't like to see $100 billion in their cash register right now. >> 500 billion like two lattes for gary b. or a can of snuff for me. what he said that i don't agree with is there's not been any

wage growth in years. you have this middle class whose shrinking every day and there's a lot of anxiety there. you see it bubbling up with donald trump or bernie or people who are frustrated. they are putting a little bit back. maybe they are not sure what next month holds. i do the political side of this, every day when with your talking about this. this is the new norm. >> a new norm, a low, if you ask me. the most popular category of gift this year, what is it? $10 and under. can you imagine that? i don't know if you get a gift from your spouse of $10 or under,itis not going to be a happy christmas. what's going on. why aren't consumers spending? >> you heard irrational exuberance. the consumer has these fears and many of them are baseless. the big one, you are talking specifically about the gas

dividend check no one is spending. they think going back to $4. that is a very common belief. the average pump buyer does not think gas is going to stay under $2 for long. it probably with. they think it's going to take off again. i think interest rates are going to take off. they have been wrong about those for a long time and get it into the head, this is where it's at. low interest rates and gas prices. they are not going to spend windfalls. they are going to hoard it and save it like a japanese consumer. >> they have been on a long, slow slide. at some point you have to believe in it, right? >> yeah, look, $500 a year, what chuck is saying is right. itis not a lot of money for consumers. what chuck also talks about are the middle class. that's the most important thing. the trend is awful. look from 1980-2000, 40 million jobs were created. from 2000 to 2015, less than 10

million. during that time, 4 million people came off food stamps from 2000-2015, almost 30 million went on. for every job since 2000 that has been created, almost three people slid into food stamps. the middle class has been destroyed. gdp, the afternoon is 3.3% annually, it is president obama's best year has been at 2.5%. only two years since 2000 have we seen over the average. i think america is starting to realize, we don't have leadership and haven't in d.c. for some time. >> go ahead. >> i agree with everything john said except america is just beginning to realize it. i think the problem is america has been realizing it so long, it feels like it is here to stay. i think that right now, after years and years and years of slow growth saying guess what? this is it. this is what it is going to be.

why trust the government there is going to be an increase in the number of jobs or job security or anything. you are holding on to any money they have. they don't want to spend it. it's not going to make you go big at the mall to think i have 500 more dollars in my pocket. you are going to put it away. i want to bring up something that caught my eye. the protest at the mall of america, gary b., you brought it up earlier. what does this have to do with -- what is going on here and what is going on in the minds of americans in this holiday season as they see these protests at the mall of america? it's crazy. >> look, if nothing else, it's disruptive. the holiday season, unless you are shopping online via amazon or ebay is hard enough. it's a hassell. i tell you what? if you go to the mall and say, oh, my gosh, there's protesters there, what are they going to do? they are going to turn around and go home. they may or may not sign up

online. one other point i want to address is jonas said there's an irrational pessimism out there. i disagree. consumer sentiment is bucking highs we have. it's not emotional out there. people just feel poor because they are not making any money. then the little money they are making, to your point, they go to the mall and say oh, my gosh, i have to fight through this mob here or michigan avenue to get to my store. turn around and wrap the kids brownies and put them under the tree. >> jonas, quick last word here. >> i think there's no data -- most data points are pretty good. nothing is great, but nothing is terrible. it's good enough to enjoy yourself and not be in panic mode, whether it's new home sales, you name it, it is pretty good. that's pretty good compared to the rest of the world. we should enjoy it. >> i don't think your panel agrees with you here. i think there's a lot of

disagreement on that. guys, thanks for this. cavuto on business in 20 minutes. what do you have? >> if isis has thousands, i mean thousands of blank passports ready to go, is it time to reassess the access of thousands of syrian refugees? you might love the apple gadget you got, but something the ceo says it might be giving you cause for concern. we'll explain. >> thanks, we can't wait. up here first, if you owe back taxes, the irs taking away your passport. if you arefamilies.

back to more bulls and bears. the irs now revoking u.s. passports of tax dlin quens. yet americans who fight with isis get to keep theirs. does this make any sense at all? >> no, it doesn't, but i'm for americans who fight with isis keeping their passports right to the time we execute them for treason. taking passports, if you have congress that puts something in the bill for alaskan fish hatchery, that's stealing money, too. you indict them as well. that's a level playing field. >> chuck, to you. you think people who don't pay their taxes, that's fine and dandy to take their passports,

why? >> if i miss one day, i just paid my taxes. the one day a year when i'm a republican, i paid my taxes. it made me unhappy. now, do the same thing to these people. i'm telling you what -- if i miss one day, they come looking for me. yes, they should take their passport. congress should do both. there's no sense, if somebody wants to harm this country, take their passport. like john said, do everything and make sure they can never do it again. >> so much happening, right? the irs is going to come after you for your passport. are you kidding me? if you have a major illness, you can blow through that. what do you think of this? >> it's it yacdiotic. the country is more concerned with putting dollars in the government's coughers to waste than we are about trying

treasonous people. you are going to fight with an organization that has beheaded americans, at best, let mem keep their passport. as john said bring them back for treason. if someone wants to revoke their passport and have them stay out of the country, i'm fine with that. as far as the irs revoking your passport, i want people to stay in the country so the irs can get their money. it's idiotic on all accounts. >> the irs has all kind of tools at its disposal to go after people. they can garnish your wages, throw you in jail, why take your passport in. >> and seize your assets. look, we can't get mad at the patriots of the irs. our ability to win battles is directly related to our ability to collect taxes. >> did you say patriots at the

irs? suzy, help me out here. >> i'm speechless. what we have here is the irs continuing to increase power. we know that's a dangerous thing. last time they got their power increased, they used it to go after conservative groups. i hate tax -- what we have is another increase of the power of the irs and under this administration, that makes me very, very nervous. >> i want to go back to john for a second. finish this up here, my friend. this, to me, exposes how con deuced the government is on the most important policies that affect americans. >> two things here, jonas is a suck up that doesn't want to be audited by the irs. i think you should pay your taxes, but to hire a bounty guy

like the irs can do is a bit too far. >> that's what they are going to do. the guys that call you up and talk to you on the phone, the people dogged by the fcc, the federal trade commission goes after them. is that a good idea? >> no, but that was the government. you can't get mad because homeland security isn't run as well as the irs. they should learn from the irs. >> jonas, stop it. >> you are saying the irs is well run? you have to be kidding. really? patriots. >> we have a few hundred billion dollars in uncollected out of trils. it's not that bad of a ratio when you look at it that way. there are people abroad. it's like terrorists, you have to get new ideas to get that money. they are not hanging out here where you can seize their checking account. it's switslanzerlandswitzerland.

a dollar paid is a dollar less that i have to pay, maybe. >> suzy, one quick word. >> i'm concerned about the irs increasing their power. first things first. if the irs is going to do anything, if the government is going to do anything, get the passports to the people who have fought against us, bring them country and put them in jail forever. focus our energies there. >> sounds like a good idea. thanks, guys. cashing in, eric, what do you have coming up? >> americans are afraid of isis because of the media. the president suggesting that. we are debating it. did "the washington post" go too far? setting off a fire storm. why ted cruz may be getting the last laugh after all. it's all coming up at 11:30. >> thanks, eric. we'll be watching. up here first. states hiking minimum wage on january 1st. might want to think twice.

200,000 jobs just took a hike along with them. how do you say breakfast in korean?

google voice response: achim sigsa. how long does milk last? google voice; one week after the sell-by date. how much vitamin c is... is in an orange? set timer for twelve minutes. google voice: ok, twelve minutes.

where can we find donuts around here? coffee? what about crepes? how about a bagel? what is the most important meal of the day? google voice: breakfast is the most important meal of the day. don't say we didn't warn you. >> raise minimum wage, going to lose 500,000 jobs.

when you raise rages, you lose business. >> you are going to have more unemployment. >> they are going to get squeezed. there will be less money to go around, hire fewer people. sthak was then, this is now. the new federal reserve survey shows minimum wage hikes have cost 200,000 jobs and now more wage hikes kick in next week across more than a dozen states. gary, b., are we looking atmore job cuts in the new year? >> absolutely. this is troublesome. president obama said, and i quote, there is no solid evidence higher minimum wages cost jobs. that was a lie. we have been studying this for hundreds of years. you saw the clip. we have all known it on this panel and across fox news. the federal reserve, itself, other than the forecast, studied this issue. that found for every 10% of minimum wage increase, there's a 1% to 2% reduction in low scale

jobs. the federal reserve. economists have proven the point, yet obama speaks to the other side. it's frustrating. >> chuck, to you. you believe just the opposite. >> happy holidays to you and welcome to the grinch show. everybody go and get out. nobody will have a job left. >> we talk on this program and lots of programs to leave it up to the states. let the states decide, they are the smartest. we did. we let the states decide. the people voted to keep their minimum wage. sometimes the legislatures, the local bodies of power, let's raise the minimum wage. let's see what's happening. people deserve more. happy christmas to all of you. quick taking everybody's money. >> suzy, 3% of americans earn minimum wage. it's a minority of people. should we be talking median wages instead of minimum?

>> we shouldn't talk about it at all. we have to think, it's not about that. it's about jobs, jobs of the future. last week, tim cook, the ceo of apple gave an interview saying we have 1 million jobs in china. we have them over there not because of the low wages, but because there are not trained workers here. a million jobs, okay? i think we should stop talking raising the minimum wage a little bit this and a little bit that and start having a conversation about vocational training to get jobs, real jobs for american workers with a future and with growth. talking about the wrong thing. >> john, it's not a little bit here and there. it's a big jump, isn't it? i mean, with the president suggesting $15 an hour, where are we going to go, 25? that is the goal here? >> it looks good on a bumper

sticker. you raise the minimum wage and president obama was the one who delayed implementation because it was costing jobs. however, i agree with chuck. we said for a long time, this should go to the states. you can't compare mississippi with new york. the state should have the right to do this. however, if you are wrong like they were in america samoa, go to 15 or 25, whatever number you are choosing to put it on a bumper sticker, it is going to cost jobs. >> when you raise the price of something, don't people buy less of it? if you raise the price of labor, fewer people will use minimum wage, folks. >> that's what i learned in economics. you make an artificially high wage, you have artificially high unemployment. economics is a philosophy. they say if you print hundreds of billions of dollars, you see the inflation. i haven't seen that happen. there's levels of minimum wage increase that don't have a lot of effect, probably the ones we have had to this point.

when they happen, if the economy is strong, it doesn't matter. oh, a little is good, a lot better. say obama sent the price of coal down to put coal in the stock cheap. >> grinches, grinches. thanks guys. thanks to suzy and chuck for joining us. you did a great job. ♪ i built my business with passion. but i keep it growing by making every dollar count. that's why i have the spark cash card from capital one. i earn unlimited 2% cash back on everything i buy for my studio. ♪ and that unlimited 2% cash back from spark means thousands of dollars each year going back into my business...

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under armor. stock up in 2016. >> john? >> mobile is up 20% in a year. >> jonas? >> study says women overpay for. xrt for 15% gain. >> neil, to you. this is a little worrisome. isis getting hands on tens of thousands of passports ready to go. all they have to do is add a name. what could go wrong? hi, everybody. i'm neil cavuto. we know isis sympathizers are here, now operatives? a new report with with fake passports they can pass off as real. we are told they are the real mccoy and hard to detect. one more reason to put a freeze on refugees we are taking in right now, let alone that a lot of this could be going on. we'll get to charles on that.