forget about piecemealing the drip, drip, drip, pull out the old plumbing, put in the new plumbing. thanks a lot. we appreciate you watching every night, 6:00 p.m. you don't want to miss a moment of "making money." if you miss it, dvr it, now lou dobbs. lou: good evening, everybody, i'm lou dobbs. president obama today trampling on the second amendment, congress picking a fight with republicans and the american people. the president using executive powers to bypass congress and go straight after our guns, expanding background checks for gun buyers. the president tearing up as he announced new fiat and recalled the sandy hook shooting president obama:. >> every time i think about those kids it gets me mad. and by the way, it happens on the streets of chicago every

day. [applause] . lou: the president's controversial action sure to spark legal challenges. we'll take up the case tonight on the broadcast. also tonight, donald trump set to hold a campaign rally in claremont new hampshire. the second stop for trump in his new england campaign swing that so far has been hugely successful. last night more than 8,000 people showed up to hear trump speak. by comparison. 600 people showed up to hear hillary clinton speak in mason city iowa last night. we'll talk about the race with fox news jedidiah bila, the national review's rich lowry and democratic strategist hank sheinkopf. and the armed occupation of oregon's malheur national wildlife refuge stretching into a fourth day with no end in sight. a peaceful protest in support of the hammond family. two local ranchers sent to prison because they set fire on

federal land 20 years ago, but oregon lawmakers are ignoring the plight of the hammonds, father and son, all seven members of the delegation have been absolutely silent through this outrage. we'll be talking with the senior investigative reporter for the oregonian newspaper tonight. top story, president obama's gun grab, the president unveiled new executive orders on gun control. the move quickly savaged by critics who say it's an unlawful assault on americans' constitutional rights. fox news chief correspondent james rosen has our report. >> reporter: flanked in the east room by citizens impacted by gun violence, president obama announced ten new executive actions aimed at restricting access to firearms in an address that was eloquent and emotional, angry and scornful of opponents on the issue. >> the gun lobby may be holding congress hostage right now, but

they cannot hold america hostage. all of us need to demand a congress to brave up and stand up to the gun lobby's lies. our right to peaceful assembly. that right was robbed from moviegoers in aurora and lafayette and from every family who never imagined that their loved one would be taken from our lives by a bullet from a gun. >> reporter: issued in the form of guidance to law enforcement agencies and federal rules, the president's actions include new licensing requirements for small scale gun sellers. hiring of 230 fbi. provisions enabling states to share mental health information more easily and new federal research into gun safety technology. the national rifle association dismissed the president's emotional condescending lecture and released to fox news a four minute video which wayne lafayette says his organization

has fought for four years and into which he said at present, 38 states enter less than 30% of felony convictions. >> when you hear politicians who won't fix the broken system talk about expanding it, don't buy it. demand what works. enforce the federal gun laws against every criminal thug on the street. >> reporter: statistics compiled by syracuse university show federal firearms convictions have fallen sharply under president obama by more than 15% since 2010 and nearly 35% since 2005. >> they are, but reflect decisions made by career prosecutors. >> reporter: republican house speaker paul ryan vowed to conduct vigilant oversight while they cast mr. obama as a lawless executive. >> barack obama is obsessed with undermining the second amendment. >> reporter: i asked josh earnest if the president's reference to the nra holding congress and the american

people hostage was an example of the tinged language at the white house previously deplored. it was an apt metaphor. lou? lou: of course, james rosen from the white house. donald trump set to hold a campaigna event in new hampshire. senator ted cruz in iowa leading the polls with less than a month to go before the caucuses. and senator marco rubio trying to stop the perception that iowa is just a two-man race. fox news chief political correspondent carl cameron has the latest from the campaign trail. >> reporter: marco rubio's turning it on. >> and you're in iowa, you get the first choice. >> reporter: running third in recent iowa polls, shifting from optimistic policy wonk to fear and anger over terrorism and chaos that donald trump and ted cruz have tapped into. >> defenses are weakened and foreign policy is undermined by the president.

i think this issue is growing in prevalence more and more. >> reporter: rubio hits cruz for flip-flopping daily. >> he has a right to change his position, but it's a different position. >> reporter: also going after chris christie for expanding medicaid in new jersey. >> we can't have another president who supports common core or gun control or expanding obamacare. these are serious policy disputes. >> reporter: christie addressed an addiction forum where the opioid and heroin epidemic is racing. >> this is a battle we must fight. >> reporter: christie's gang ground in new hampshire and expanding operations in iowa in hopes of overtaking jeb bush in the caucuses and winning the first primary. >> i think my hard work is being rewarded. >> reporter: bush is cast as trump's fiercest critic. >> the simple fact is donald trump would help hillary clinton get elected. >> reporter: cruz continues to court evangelicals with the

help of faith leaders like dr. james dobson. >> we allow nonbelievers to elect our leaders we shouldn't be surprised when government doesn't reflect our values. >> reporter: mike huckabee winner of caucuses and ordained baptist minister says evangelicals should think twice about cruz who is leading with support of states rights under the 10th amendment applied to same-sex marriage and the legalization of marijuana among other things. >> hold me accountable and any other candidate accountable. if they're saying something different to the voters in iowa and evangelical audience than the big donors in manhattan. >> reporter: whether it's the judeo-christian values or plans for the future, the republican race is a complex multistage cage match that won't be resolved after the next eight weeks of voting, lou? lou: hope it resolves, carl, to american values. turn to the ongoing standoff in oregon.

residents of burns, oregon have a lot of sympathy for the ranchers imprisoned or reimprisoned on arson conviction, but folks are voicing skepticism and considerable anger at the demonstrators and protesters about two dozen of them holed up in a compound of federal buildings at the malheur national wildlife refuge. dan springer has the latest for us. >> reporter: lou, the stalemata continues as opposition to the actions of the anti-government activists seems to be growing in harny county. the local sheriff said in no uncertain terms it's time for them to go and said the peaceful protests ended. he was joined by the chairman of the county board of supervisors and ammond bundy says support from local ranchers negatively impacted by

government overreach when it comes to land management. bundy has a plan, but it was vague and he took no questions. >> it is our goal to get the logger back to logging, the rancher back to ranching, to get the miner back to mining. the farmer back to farming and to jump start this economy in the county to see their roads again filled with industry. >> reporter: the nearest town of burns is 30 miles away, we noticed increase in long-term, a command center located in a school building. no school classes because they've been canceled. no heavy vehicles in sight but a lot of different agencies and according to a source 20 federal agents are in the area. they are content to wait this out. we spoke to a lot of people who live in the area, almost all view the activists as outsiders and make really good points but went too far. >> we don't want them here, we like our refuge, we want it left alone.

>> i think their message is correct but the method they did is totally wrong. >> reporter: a community meeting is scheduled for 4:00 tomorrow afternoon in burns, it will give the residents a chance to sound off on the showdown and let the officials know how it's affecting them. lou: dan springer reporting for us. we're coming right back. a lot more to talk about, stay with us. iran shows off another underground missile site, will this lame-duck president react to the iranian insults and threats? general jack keane next. and for two snorkelers, a boating trip quickly turned into a rescue. that video right after the messages. stay with us.

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. lou: iran today unveiled more missiles, missiles capable of carrying nuclear devices during a tour of a new underground missile depot. the latest provocation broadcast on iranian stata television just days after the iranian government vowed to expand its missile program. iran growing increasingly defiant since last year's nuclear deal. it's conducted two missile tests just since october and still no sanctions from this administration.

joining us now former army vice chief of staff, fox news military analyst, general jack keane, good to see you. happy new year. let's start with what in the world should be the reaction of this president? >> well, certainly when the two missiles, medium range missiles were tested in total violation of u.n. security resolutions, sanctions should have been imposed immediately, u.n. resolution economic sanctions, but the iranians, foreign minister, calls secretary of state and the next thing know, even the sanctions against the companies were withdrawn. so we have nothing but feckless response because the iranians are still rattling the cage that if you do anything to us, this deal, the nuclear deal that theya agreed to may blow up in the united states faces and they're holding us hostage to that.

it has been a sad commentary for a long time. and look what it's doing to the region. the region is in a freefall as a result of that. lou: without a response, a firm, effective and prompt response by this administration, the balance of power in the middle east is now frankly, it's highly unstable to say the least. what is the future? iran, saudi arabia and open breach, three other countries joining outright with saudi arabia in cutting diplomatic relations with the iranians, the united arab emirates have toned down if you will, their diplomatic relations and likely will cut those relations as well. what do you make of what's happening? what should we expect? >> well, i think what's going to happen and what's driving is iran has been marching towards regional domination for 35 years, that's not new to saudi or the other arab states to the region or even to the united

states, we're paying for how many americans they killed in the 35 year march. secondly in pursuit of a nuclear weapon for 15 years. the geopolitical objectives that they've had are not new. what is. >> you that the united states is that the every single policy decision that we made in the middle east for the last nine years has been through the prism of that reality. that that arrangement with the iranians or any other ally hassa takena precedent. russia interesting enough is stepping in here, in multiple arms deals trying to build nuclear power plants, and believe me, they're not concerned about highly enriched uranium or not. this situation is getting considerably more dangerous. lou: and we should point out

with the onset of russian influence and now the building of that influence, their partner is iran, and that partnership is an access in the middle east now that can't be -- that frankly, i don't believe we can find a countervailing force within the united states. do you? >> no, that's what's got our allies so concerned. the other accelerant is the new leadership in saudi arabia, lou, king salman, youthful, in his 30s, he's a visionary and very aggressive. he made a decision to go into yemen and stand up against the houthis. he's made the decision to keep oil prices where they're at, and the saudis are keeping up full production because why? they don't want the $150 billion windfall to be $150

billion worth of capital. they want it to be considerably less and doing at expense of their own economy. this is how dead serious they are in dealing with the iranians, and there is no united states there to assist and achieve stability in the region because we are no longer players. >> the idea this president would continue given all of the provocation and defiance from the iranians would continue on any basis to provide the $150 billion frozen assets that have been held in abeyance from the iranians for so long. this is sheer madness. general, give me your insight, when the national security team for this president sits around in the office and looks at one another, do they understand there is not a single success for this administration and this president and they're an abject embarrassment to him? >> i think right from the beginning, i believe from my sources the ideas that the

iranians cama up during the transition from november to january after he was elected, and i think once the president had formulated in his mind he wanted to do this, any substantive opposition to this over the ensuing 7+ years have fallen by the wayside and he has advisers around him who are just locked into his ideology and what that portends for the region. what it meant in terms of iraq. what it means in terms of afghanistan and he's unmoveable and therefore doesn't get counterveiling advice. lou: yeah, counterveiling advice from a group of folks that seems to be not intellectualy blessed or blessed in any other physical way that might be helpful to standing on principle in the interest of the country. general jack keane, good to have you here. >> good talking to you, lou. lou: be sure to vote in tonight's poll. we want to have a little fun with all that's going on in the new year and the difficult

challenges. so the question is -- this assumes of course that we could all agree on a price. what is it they say, there is no such thing as exorbitant price, only a price no one will pavement i think the numbers are pretty high. cast your vote at loudobbs.com. remember, all in fun. most of it in fun. follow me on -- links to everything found at loudobbs.com. stunning video coming out of spain tonight. two whale spotters became unlikely heroes. they discovered a thin whale tangled in illegal fishing lines. these brave men armed with snorkels and knives rescued the struggling animal cutting the ropes and netting the mines before removing hooks from the mouth of the whale. they followed the whale after

the hour long rescue to make sure the whale was back to normal and swimming again, and that is precisely the result. good for them. up next, a few thoughts on the greatest gun salesman who ever lived, at least in this country. and we'll introduce you to the company trying to make quadcopter drones a think of the past. no. they just got here! they've got a drone that looks like, well, we shouldn't tell you. we won't show you until after these messages. soon, i promise you, soon. stay with us. at ally bank no branches equals great rates. it's a fact. kind of like reunions equal blatant lying. the company is actually doing really well on, on social media. oh that's interesting. i - i started social media.

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. lou: a few quick thoughts on the president's latest fiat. mr. obama announcing executive action with a lot of fanfare, exploiting willing supporters surrounding himself with the family members of some killed in shootings, all arranged as

political props for a president who is incapable of reason and persuasion on every issue and who can't build national consensus on difficult and controversial matters and who proclaims unilateral fiats that are undemocratic, unrepresentative of the people's will and all the while he plays a part of a ten horned dictator. the president allowed tears to roll down his cheek when talking about newtown and barely mentioning the city of chicago. his hometown. the murder capital of the country year in and year out, and this just might be a first time he mentioned chicago, certainly with a tear rolling down his cheek. president wiped away tears along enough to slam critics who say his latest fiat is an assault on constitutional rights. >> no matter how many times people try to twist my words around, i taught constitutional

law, i know a little bit about this. but i also believe we can find ways to reduce gun violence consistent with the second amendment. the gun lobby may be holding congress hostage right now, but cannot hold america hostage. lou: that is not only pathetic rhetoric devoid of any meaning. america is hostage to a lame-duck president. and with his latest fiat on guns, i believe president obama is effectively making criminals out of thousands of americans who sell guns by his decree to expand background checks. through such action, mr. obama has become the greatest gun salesman in the history of this country. since he took office, the shares of two gun makers, smith & wesson as well as sturm ruger are up -- are you ready for this? -- have risen 900%. to put that in perspective, the s&p gained about 140% over that same time period. and in 2015, the fbi conducted

a record number of background checks on gun sales. more than 23 million, including 3.3 million last month alone. merry christmas. this president is ending his reign as he began it, seeming to pose a greater danger to the rights of american citizens that he should be serving than to the enemies of the nation, and that is a sad, sad legacy not only for mr. obama but for all of us. our quotation of the evening from thomas jefferson who said -- it's not guess work, it's our constitution, and it's declarative. we're coming right back. president obama today doing it again. he's boosting gun sales

dramatically, even as he announces his plans to limit gun ownership. >> it gets me mad. lou: we have begun the year the president said he wouldn't waste. jedidiah bila, hank sheinkopf and rich lowry on how he's doing so far? and these pedestrians are in for a nasty surprise. we'll show you why in the video coming up here next. stay with us we're coming right back. then those places change every few months... please. it's time you got the quicksilver card from capital one. quicksilver earns you unlimited 1.5% cash back on every purchase, everywhere. doesn't get much simpler than that. what's in your wallet?

. lou: you know there are some in

the liberal national media who can't comprehend the trump phenomenon. more than 8,000 people showed up to trump's rally in lowell, massachusetts, braving temperatures in the teens to get there. that's become something of a typical trump event. yet the "washington post" described it as absolutely mind-boggling. joining us to boggle our minds, author, columnist, fox news contributor, jedidiah bila. democratic strategist hank sheinkopf. editor of the national review, fox news contributor rich lowry. well, it's boggle time. i get a kick out of the fact that apparently the "washington post" got the clue before the republican establishment, jedidiah? >> what i love about trump is he seems to aggravate all the right people. all the people i want unnerved are unnerved by him. i don't know what the surprise is, people are confused what people love about him. he's straight up. direct, entertaining, do you want to sit in a room and listen to hillary clinton. you'll fall asleep. or jeb bush.

he's charismatic, entertaining, makes you laugh. he says thing that are blunt that people are thinking at home. >> there are people say blunt things for particular times. huey long did it, donald trump is doing it, and these are phenomenons around the individual people that don't have long trajectories. we're not going to see somebody like this again very quickly. it's him, only to him, only he can get away with it right now. lou: you plucked from history two rather, let's say -- >> i love agnew references, they're not nearly enough of them. lou, i do thing. >> the taxes. >> that event in lowell is admirable, below freezing, at night and packs the place to the rafters. lou: in response to governor chris christie, he says showtime is over! who starts a show with showtime is over? >> ridiculous. lou: i don't know what to make

of these people that call themselves establishment candidates. >> no one has figured how to take him on. the one who is not taking him on is ted cruz, and his tiptoeing around and above him in iowa. and that's -- if donald trump at this point wants to win iowa, he needs to go very negative against ted cruz. >> i think that's correct. lou: i don't know if it matters about winning iowa. huckabee won it, santorum won it, and who do they end up being? . >> i love when people talk about iowa like it's an indicator for the rest of the country. the pulse of the nation. lou: there's the barometer. >> i don't think it matters and i don't think it's going to help him to go negative on ted cruz. a lot of negativity has only helped ted cruz. he's another guy the conservatives feel strongly about and it's hard to shake them when it comes to their sense of his reliability. lou: is it a two-man race right now effectively? . >> effectively it is a two person race, and iowa will be determinate to some extent.

the rules the republicans once had in how to pick a presidential nominee have changed dramatically. lou: what are they going to do adopt a democratic model? >> not saying no. what i'm saying there was more control so you have room for different kinds of players. ted cruz winning in iowa is based upon data. >> whoever wins iowa between the two of them has the best odds of winning the nomination, if trump loses in iowa and depending how he loses, if he does. his lead in new hampshire is not impregnable. if he goes down there. lou: is that the headline of the national review? trump vulnerable, likely to lose? >> he's behind. it's not a national primary. ten points in the most reputable poll in iowa. he is ten points behind in iowa. better believe he is more focused on that than you are. if he wants to win the nomination, he's got to fight for it. lou: i think that's probably true, but it becomes a matter

of what is he working for? iowa has meant nothing in the last two cycles, why should we assume it will mean more? >> both have more staying power, cruz and trump than rick santorum and mike huckabee. lou: and also more interest in them and personalities in canada. >> that's a good observation, more staying power, and people will look what trump does among the base of the republican party which is the evangelicals and others. >> what's up with the president with a tear rolling down his eye onto his cheek talking about gun control making a big deal. it's as if the man has absolutely blinders are to the foreign policy, to the challenges, to the, of this country and the pain that exists for millions of americans. >> and to the constitution. and to the people's second amendment rights. he doesn't understand the concerns people have about his executive overreach and the fact he had no regard for the

separation of powers. you can talk about background checks, have the conversations with people, he's not getting anywhere with congress. the second you have a president -- lou: he doesn't have the right to go around -- >> that's true. lou: he says it but it's not what he's doing? >> people stay this president can do that on an issue i potentially agree with, another president can do it on an issue i don't agree with. that doesn't go over well. lou: you're getting to the point i'm very concerned about that, is the republican party content to let this guy continue to press the outer limits of the imperial presidency so that the next president, a republican, will have the same prerequisites, whether it's a republican, democrat or independent or whomever. >> not a problem, there's a lot of literature about it imperial presidency and the extension of the federal government into our lives in ways that were not intended whether they be republicans or democrats. lou: so what?

where are we going to get some men and women with the integrity to constrain power rather than seek to continue to expand it, rich? >> they're not going to do anything, they won't do anything meaningful. the only meaningful action taken against the unilateral acts is in the courts which has blocked his unilateral executive amnesty. you started this portion of the discussion saying what does he get from this, the president? emotional self-satisfaction, he gets to feel better about himself about supposedly doing something, even though the measures are symbolic. since 2010, since losing congress, this is the only way he's able to quote, unquote govern is by dictate. lou: he has utterly lost the ability, the power, the talent or the desire to persuade people. >> he never had it. >> i don't think he ever had it. he's interested now. lou: what isn't the national

media saying enough, this is a failed presidency and this man is -- >> they're dancing around on foreign affairs and the failure to contain terrorism. but you know what? they're not going to say it. >> also national media supports him on the issue. >> they're in the tank farm especially on this. lou: a tank that i hope gets markedly smaller. thanks so much. >> rich, thank you. jedidiah, hank, thank you so much. and happy new year, guys. tourists have a reason to visit china's county, i think they have for some time. this is super. local businessmen and villagers spend nearly $4.5 million to build a golden statue of mao tse-tung and you thought communism was dead in china? that's serious investment. it's 120 feet high. the statue stands out from the rather plain surroundings but more so when you consider it

was built in the middle of impoverished rural village. i suppose that the communist government might call that aspirational. historic. but expensive. and you don't need to be near a mountain to be caught in an avalanche. surveillance video capturing unsuspecting pedestrians, these pedestrians, walking by when snow started falling off a roof it. quickly turned into an avalanche. several people were buried in the snow. two women were sent to the hospital but they're okay, we are pleased to report. that's stunning stuff! whoa! very lucky people. up next, oregon ranchers sentenced to five years in prison are serving that sentence. they began yesterday. we take up the miscarriage of justice. we'll be talking with the senior investigative reporter for the oregonian newspaper here next. stay with us. we're coming right back. i've smoked a lot

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. lou: our next guest has been covering the oregon standoff from the beginning. joining us tonight, les zeit, senior investigative reporter for the oregonian newspaper. this is a tough complicated story, i know. i have to say that the story is

in two parts at least, one about the bundys who are uninvited or asked to leave by just about everybody and the hammonds persecuted by the u.s. attorney, now for years and who now in federal prison because what to me looked like a complete obvious outrage, a u.s. attorney, ambitious for some reason to spill pain through their families. what's your take? >> well, the big discussion around the community out here is the sentences. these are -- this is a 73-year-old man and a 46-year-old son who as you say reported back to prison yesterday after they already served one term. dwight hammond served three months and son steven served a year. they came back, went back to cattle ranching and now they have to hang up their cowboy hats and spend the next few

years in prison. lou: and they've done so, they have kept their silence. it is a painful, painful time for the hammond family. i'm not sure that justice can be worked here, but then to have the bundys who, by the way, are standing up for properly the rights of ranchers but doing it in the clumsiest and most unlawful way imaginable, taking over part of the malheur buildings there at the wildlife refuge. nobody was there. nobody is there now. but it's such a waste, it seems. >> well, it certainly strikes a lot of people that way. as you said, a lot of people support the idea and the issues that these militants are raising. they just don't like the method. and that includes the hammonds. the hammonds wanted to cowboy up.

they have to be going back to prison, they're going to do that, they're going back to prison and do their time. the bundies wanted them to make a stand. they wanted them to go into protective custody of the militants and not report to prison and the hammonds had no part of that. they wanted the sheriff to take the bundys -- yes? lou: the sheriff, this man is talking like his britches are just a little too big. who does he think he is? he needs to keep his mouth, it seems to me, should follow the example of the hammonds and cut out the provocative talk like he's going cut off the water, the power and whatever else. this guy is not helping, and where the heck is the community when these two men, father and son, dwight and steve, were sentenced for a second time? it's out in its face outrageous, the congressional

delegation hasn't said a word, neither has the two senators of oregon? >> well, the community has spoken, and very powerful political interests. the oregon cattleman's organization. lou: no, i talked to the oregon cattleman's organization. i'm talking about the men and women elected to protect citizens and these ranchers are first and foremost citizens, where in the heck have they been? >> well, you know, i can't answer that question, i haven't been talking to them. i'm trying to figure out what's going on in the streets of burns and the deserts of oregon. i haven't got time to chase the political guys, they're not important to the story. lou: they sure aren't, because they haven't been a part of it. that's a shame for steve and dwight hammond and their families. >> lou, look, they are important because this is all about the federal government and overreach of the government, and it's their duty to respond to those issues. lou: amen, brother.

>> but it's not my job out here in the field to get ron wyden and jeff mercly to explain themselves. that's for other folks to do. lou: i feel better just for mentioning their names and the fact that in my opinion, not performed their duty to the people of oregon. let's clear up one thing. right now there's no law enforcement at the scene. >> yeah. lou: there's no even hint of a conflict here rising to anything else. >> no. >> the fbi is in charge and all is quiet, correct? >> that's absolutely correct. the refuge is 30 miles from this town. can you drive all the way and you won't see a single patrol car or fbi agent anywhere. in town, things are filling up. there are a lot of cars, black suvs and things, so there's a presence. but they've made no move. the power is still on, water is still on, phone service is on. those folks can come and no, nothing to stop them from

leaving or going back out for that matter. lou: after listening to the sheriff, we can be thankful the fbi stepped in to be in charge. les, we appreciate you reporting, appreciate it very much. >> all right, lou, thanks for having me. lou: thank you. up next here, president obama trying to make criminals out of thousands of people who sell guns. it's his idea of a clever move. we're on the case. attorneys lis wiehl and jonna spillborn join us to talk about the fiat from the president. stay with us, we're coming right back. kind of like ordering wine equals pretending to know wine. pinot noir, which means peanut of the night.

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at ally bank no branches equals great rates. it's a fact. kind of like reunions equal blatant lying. the company is actually doing really well on, on social media. oh that's interesting. i - i started social media.

oh! it was my...baby. lou: one of the oregon delegation is speaking on the house floor. the congressman's district includes the ranch of the hammond family and the wildlife refuge. >> this is a government that has gone too far for too long. now i'm not condoning this takeover in any way. i want to make that clear. there is a right to protest. i think they have gone too far. but i understand and hear their anger. lou: anger there is. joining us now two of the best attorneys in the business. lis weihl and jonna spilbor.

let's start with what the congressman just said. lis: i think he was listening to you last night. you said exactly this. you said isn't there someone in oregon who can stand up for the hammonds and say this fist wrong? they were tried on a terrorism charge and the jury was never told that. lou: the jury was not told they were being prosecuted under terrorism laws and there was mandatory 5-year sentence. lis: the judge tried to do them a favor and depart from the federal sentencing guidelines. the prosecutors appealed. lou: the u.s. attorney's office or whoever is behind this, whether it's amanda marshall.

they should be prosecuted for what they have done. lis: if you prosecute someone under the domestic terrorism laws, don't you think the jury should hear they are being prosecuted as domestic terrorists? >> the federal sentence * let's do away with the federal sentencing guidelines. that's part of the problem. >> the defense of the jury usually is the jury does not know what the potential sentence should be. this is they didn't know what they were charged with. they were never told domestic terrorism. lou: how can you convict them if you don't know what the hell they are charged with. let's go to the ruler of the country and seek his forgiveness.

is that how they teach law school? >> we just let 6,000 inmates out of custody under the federal sentencing guidelines because they were drug offenders and obama decided they should not be in custody anymore. lis: quot quote-unquote non-viot offenders. lou: what do you think is the chance of clemency. >> i think it's a chance because you, lou dobbs, started it last night. lou: my compliments to congressman walden for standing up. in our online poll 94% of you have say it's shameful oregon's elected representatives have not worked to stop the persecution

of the ham monds family. we hope you will be with us tomorrow. good night from new york. kennedy: yes, the year is so new and baby fresh. i'm watching frustration boil over. people have had it up to their beaver caps. the oregon standsoff has caused outraged cries of domestic terrorism. just because murderous jihadists live and kill among us doesn't mean there needs to be an equal and opposite number of home-grown loans on the other side of the equation. if you didn't grow up hunting and fishing in oregon or utah i pity you. the fede