take it from super storm, get on an airplane and get out of there. good for the airline industry. >> now if we could just shove a glove in your mouth, the call for freedom continues right now. one of the things that's come up is, look, if they are on the ropes again we are going to have to rescue them. we are not going to let a bank of america or citigroup go. would you, if you were president faced with that, what would you do? >> the truth, i think they have had their one rescue. they should have learned the lesson and i would not look to rescue the banks. >> if we have a president christie he will not help another bank on the brink. is that the case? are republicans saying with tough love bailouts are over?

remember, the last big bailout started with president bush. well, charles banks says it's about time. we have ben stein and jerry willis and adam. dagan you just saw on bulls & bears. charlie is still hung over from partying. found out they spiked the fondue. charles? >> nationwide outrage. oh, you mean this other thing. >> right, right. >> music to my ears. >> good thing to say that. no doubt about it. we know there is risk. the world will fall apart. we know one thing. if the banks or any business knows it will be bailed out it takes away the natural buffer and risk and reward. there is no risk. so they can push the envelope, push the envelope. when you make money, they share it.

they can buy helicopters and planes with it. when they don't we all pay a price for itment. >> that's my mojo. i asked what would happen. if we were really on the brink. would you let a bank go under. he said, i can't envision that. >> i can. we have been there before. how hard is it to figure out if it will happen again. >> that would have been a better follow up. >> i don't think americans are as much at risk as they were last time around. if you look at, for example, a list of the biggest mortgage lenders in the country it's not bank of america, jp morgan chase. it is companies we have never heard of. americans would be left at risk and that's who i care about here. >> ben stein. >> i'm fascinated by the idea that the banks are different

from us. we are the banks. we as americans own stock in the banks. we as americans are customers of the banks. we are borrows from the banks. i don't see why we dislike the banks. what have the banks done wrong lately? are you snickering? what have the banks done wrong lately? it doesn't help anyone if theyle fail. if weal bail them out we made a tremendous mistake not bailing out lehman brothers. the idea of not bailing out a big bank when that could lead to another recession is just mind boggling. i don't understand. the banks are not an alien entity. the banks are us. if they make mistakes, commit criminal acts bring the people before the grand jury. don't neglect to bail them out. >> when you say humble opinion from palm springs it's a weird oxymoron.

>> it sets audiotape an expectation. if the banks want to doris can i stuff, if they are too big to faille and they know it they will doris si stuff. they are almost emboldened to do so. >> charlie would remind you that's a moral hazard. i had to laugh. the thought of him being hung over. there is nothing untrue or unreal. >> should have seen that on air appearance. >> you think i'm kidding. >> the bush administration acted completely appropriately. the primary concern was systemic failure of the banking system. jerry is right. the banks are in better shape now. that means their debt levels are significantly lower. they believe no matter what we

think that dodd frank is a pain in the rear end. it's holding them account nlable. it's not perfect but we have done a better job. and chris christie used hedge language with you. he would bail them out if he were president. >> here's the thing. the american people weren't woolworth's. they were allowed to go out of business. we the american people weren't eastman kodak. the businesses that go out of business every day -- >> nobody bails them out. >> which is what i said. after the recorded interview. >> i don't know about the criminality. something is odd when the banks paid back $100 billion, maybe $200 billion in fines. >> they were following government orders and incentives. >> we know the community reimbursement act. when ben says they did nothing wrong why do they keep paying a couple hundred billion in finds.

>> cost of doing business. >> feels like thisle wall street corridor. they share each other's executives and the power. >> what i said with all due respect is if they did something criminal, punish them el in the criminal courts. comparing joe the plumber with a gigantic national bank doesn't make much sense to me . if joe goes under you go to another one. if a giant bank goes under the risks to the system are enormous. >> the average person in the country doesn't have a bank account. goldman sachs became a commercial bank for the money. >> but citibank and bank of america, they have a lot of accounts at those places. there is no reason to put them at risk. there is no point. >> there are 1200 banks in the country. they can't grow because the large banks stay large by government feiat. >> what's the point in punishing them? >> if they take a risk and fail,

they fail. i don't understand why they have to save them. >> the rich guy at the new york yacht club isn't the one who's punished. it's the ordinary investor. >> i'm not trying to say that. the ordinary american has been punished. americaned had $1.3 trillion in savings. it's down to $700 thousand. >> thousand? >> $700 billion: millions lost their homes. their wages are down. >> that's not the bank'sle fault. >> we saved the banks and it did nothing for main street. >> that's not true. there would be a great depression. >> a lot of people in this country are in a great depression. >> if i could step back. >> the banks have failed. >> we'll never know. it is an argument. >> of course we know . >> one of the things that comes up and the premises to get the

segment going was you had a presidential candidate who says i will never be in a position to do what george bush did or the bailout barack obama did when i think history has a way of repeat ing itself. what do you think? >> no question we could be in that situation again. >> we will. i'm telling you we will. i don't know if it will look exactly the same, but we will. >> how do you know that? >> i agree with neil. it's possible we'll forget, get lax with the regulations. >> always do. >> i think a responsible politician like christie would do the right thing. it's important to point out the banks did suffer. equity holders lost a lot. earnings were hampered by some of the restrictions. >> they were at the gambling table. >> they were supposed to suffer. >> as a country we were at the

gambling table. >> what good does it do? what good does it do to let them fail? you are not punishing them. the heads of the bank will still be rich. what good does it do to let the big banks fail? it's true when you let big banks fail, bad things happen in the economy. why punish the ordinary citizen when the top guys have done something wrong, punish them. not society. >> i love you but you're having a hillary clinton moment here. "what difference does it make." >> i have a bernie sanders moment. we never should have repealed glass stiegel. that was a mistake. >> don't get me going on that. >> special live coverage from iowa next weekend. i will be in des moines through the weekend. live coveragele. a special your world sunday. 1:00 to 3:00 eastern time and

coverage of the caucuses as results come in with global market reaction. if it matters to you, it matters to us. other business networks will be running reruns of shows that weren't that interesting when they were in their first run. we'll have more. >> today on kwo"forbes on fox" iowa caucus is nine days away. sanders is surging in the polls. some say his socialist programs would

test test test test

test test including hardest

hit right now, the nation's capital. all right. if money talks and i found that expression weird. you may want to look at the campaign supporters. they are spend ing more than ten times the cash on political ads than the two top gop front runners combined. jerry said it's not how much you spend. it's the time you spend. explain. >> it's the message. not the money. it's where you are in the campaign, who you are talking to, what you are trying to get across. that's why trump is doing well, why cruz is doing so well. >> spend ing nothing. >> bush is spending $58 million and where is it getting him? nowhere. >> what do you think? >> it depends on the messenger, not just the message. jeb bush isn't a great

messenger. i'm being kind. it's ridiculous. more down the line they say it will matter. boots on the ground, operations, those things. i'm not a political expert. >> we can play one on tv. >> the polls are saying it's a disaster. >> what's the disaster part? the fact that, what -- >> they spent this money and they are not getting the traction they did. >> it's the messenger more than anything else. >> ben ? >> there is a certain charm to mr. bush. i would like to see him be president. i like him a lot. he's lacking in charisma. comparing his with trump's is insane. trump is not my favorite buguy t he's charismatic. so is cruz. bush is not a characterize ma tick guy.

i hope he pulls it out. but charisma counts. then you have to ask why is hillary clinton lead ing? she's zero in charisma. >> we hit about everybody there. adam, i'm looking at this saying back to the points raised here with the money. spend ing a lot of money isn't getting them a lot of bang for the buck. maybe it takes time. what do you think? >> there are two factors at play. we are in a new era of social media. it's easier to get your message out and reach people than ever before. secondly, i think we are in an unusual time in our political experience in the united states. people genuinely -- it is sinking in, people are genuinely pissed off. >> when did you come to this pif me the ? >> i have understood it. i don't think i understood the

magnitude. >> you're not prone to anger. >> look at the palm trees behind you. >> in the place where the palm trees are they hate mr. obama. >> got you. >> neil, as we get into february and march when we have super primaries, that's when the money is going to matter. we'll see what happens then. >> good point. forget being buried in snow. if ben is right and he can't be wrong. look where he is in palm springs. washington is about to bury you in something else. after this. ♪

bend me shape me, any way you want me as long as you love me, it's alright bend me shape me, any way you want me you've got the power, to turn on the light shape the best sleep of your life. sleep number beds with sleepiq technology adjust any way you want it. the bed that moves you. only at a sleep number store.

you know, ben brought this to my attention this week. when it comes to the debt you are about to owe you may want to brace yourself. we all had a stake in this. a person presidential candidate would say -- huge! le you say brace yourself for what? >> we can carry on with a large national debt for a long time. at some point we have to go through a default. when interest rates rise the burden of servicing the debt will be too large and we have to go through default. it won't be the first time an industrial country has gone through default. it will have a major burden on interest costs in the future.

it will happen. >> we have never done it. >> well, no, we certainly never have. neither has britain or france. but argentina has and russia has. it's been done. japan has even more to the relative size of the gdp. it can't be done for everyone. my father used to say things cannot go on forever. it will stop. whether it stops in tears or laughter is the question. >> great deal of wisdom there. >> he was a smart guy. >> and he has a smart offspring. all of the sudden this gets to be high and it is then the only other option would be default. >> i suppose. i hope we don't get there. when you talk about $19 trillion in debt, how much is that? what does it mean? i tried to look at it like a household. that would mean the average american having $311,000 of credit card debt. it gives you a sense of how big --

>> in my house, that's about right. >> charles, i'm looking at this. i think of the comic, maybe it was robin williams. how much do we owe? i'm not paying it. it's like ours. we slough it off because we get through these graveyard fears and keep switching. >> this was a major political thing. many people think it spawned the tea party. $19 trillion, $20 trillion. we watched the greece drama pay out. nobody can blal out america. if it costs trillions a year to service it, that's nuts. it won't be laughter or tears. it will be broken bones, bodies and spirits. >> i don't like the broken bones. where does this go, adam? it is insurmountable. >> the good news is here comes the reagan optimism that the

rest of you don't have -- >> reagan is spinning in his grave. continue. >> we aren't russia, argentina or greece. as long as we have growth, american inventiveness it's not the end of the world. we should get it under control. it is no reason to panic and won't be for a long time. >> growth could help. >> we need growth. that's what we have. we have maybe 2% growth here without real growth we can't make it bigger. >> you've got to grow a lot. like 40% a year. i want to thank you. great job. our guys say do not let this market scare you. the bargain they just bought you may want in on now, after this. need to hire fast?

go to ziprecruiter.com and post your job to over one hundred of the web's leading job boards with a single click. then simply select the best candidates from one easy to review list. and now you can use zip recruiter for free. go to ziprecruiter.com.

all right. welcome back. stocks these guys say are so far down they are buying them up with their own dough. >> apple report next week. buy it ahead of the report. >> adam? >> whoa. vanguard small cap index has been hit. these are good companies. they will come back. >> small caps. they are bell well into bear market territory. ben? >> semiters as usual. hang on. don't eat too much salt and fat. i do eat a lot of that. >> unexpected wisdom of ben.

>> that's one of the fringe benefits. >> not an insight we were looking for. that's a freebie. we now conti ♪ >> wow. i feel the burn on the campaign trail. is your cash about to feel it next? welcome everybody. this is "forbes on fox." a week away from the iowa caucuses. but if bernie sanders wins the road to the white house would that put taxpayers in the poor house? let's find out. steve, who is in los angeles today with the nice warm weather. let's go over the cost of some of bernie sanders