possibly have an open slash brokered convention. >> thank you both for being with us. stay with fox business. we have a lot more on super saturday. our coverage with neil cavuto right now. super tuesday it is not. how about surprising saturday? because the donald appears to have hit his speed bump. how big a one, we don't know. with voting going on today in kansas and kentucky, in maine, in nebraska, for the democrats, and in louisiana, indications right now that this party only primary procedure is seemingly benefiting at least early on ted cruz. let's go right to it. we can already safely say that the texas senator has won the

kansas caucuses. how many of the 40 delegates he will get there is anyone's guess. normally with this breakdown in percent he stands to get at least 25 of those delegates. maine is still too close to call. but he has a very good chance, senator cruz, of winning that one and picking up a majority of the 23 delegates at stake there. again, that is one that is not being called. kentucky, another one. the caucuses there, way too close to call although donald trump is out in the lead with about 11% of the vote coming in. louisiana polls close in about an hour. that is the only primary of the night. what it has in common with the three other caucuses i mentioned, only republicans can vote in them. that could be making a defining difference here. amid a separate poll that we are getting out of the state of michigan that shows what appears to be a collapse in support for donald trump. a 20-point collapse in that poll. right now, john kasich is up by

three points. that will be an important state to watch because its voters go to the polls on tuesday and that could be an early indication which way ohio could go on that all or nothing day when you have ohio and florida with their delegates up for grabs and john kasich of ohio and of course, marco rubio of florida hoping to make that happen. but this michigan republican poll bears watching because in this same poll, donald trump led by 20 points a little more than two weeks ago. we will keep an eye on it for you. in the meantime, what's at stake tonight and how it's all sorting out. what do we have? >> here we are, saturday evening, what is a better way to party. 155 gop delegates, you know those are the ones up for grabs. you are talking about these state by state, of course. i want to point to louisiana. you already talked about it. this is really the big prize of the night.

46 delegates up for grabs. since you mentioned kentucky, i want to go there. what's great about this caucus as you know, rand paul country no longer in the race, of course, but he was really the one who created this caucus. you had to be there for six hours. that's what it took. you had to be a very committed participant in kentucky. but if you look so far, there's only 11%. we can't really make too much of it but trump clearly ahead. of course, you have senator cruz not too far behind. but that's what's going on. one open question, rand paul as a libertarian, where are all those votes going to go. we will see with only just over 10% there for kentucky. you talked about maine. we were all watching donald trump give that speech on thursday from maine. as he said listen, i took a detour to come here so please come out and vote. that's what maine looks like right now. kind of quiet. as you said, too early to tell, only 12%. cruz in the lead which is a bit odd because most people say maine is actually pretty -- kind

of not so conservative or not as conservative as we are used to thinking of with ted cruz. speaking of, you said it, he absolutely swept kansas. no other way to say it. you can see that state already calling for cruz more or just under that 50% barrier there. of course, this lets us know what we have seen with senator cruz, the fact that he won his home state of texas, he won oklahoma, we know he won alaska and he won iowa. so you have this sort of cruz corridor that is beginning there in the midwest, although i did hear also what you said about michigan so one to watch in the meantime. back to you. >> thank you very much. again, we want to put kansas in some perspective, too. it's a very conservative place for republican candidates and the fact of the matter is rick santorum four years ago won this with over 50% of the vote. ditto, almost the exact same percentage for michael huckabee four years earlier. if you are conservative in this

party, a democrat or independent, you can't do any of this crossover stuff. very clean and mean as they like to say. in such environments, ted cruz was talking confidently about having a distinct advantage there. in two of the three caucus states that are getting scrutinized tonight, that appears to be the case. way too early to sort of characterize kentucky and of course, louisiana polls remain open for another hour. but again, we talk about whether this could be the night we see a bit of a stumble on the part of donald trump and what's going on with michigan that could telegraph troubles down the road. way too early to say. but what do you think? what is this telling us? >> there were two things that played into ted cruz's hands today. one is exactly what you are talking about, we have all these closed primaries where only republicans can vote and independents and democrats can't. three of the four states are caucus states. i think louisiana maybe tells us a tonight is fun because we didn't have a lot of data going in.

it's like a blessing in disguise. we didn't have much polling data. louisiana will be the interesting one to watch because that's a primary state. there's a lot of conservative people there, lot of evangelical voters. does that follow south carolina and go trump? if so, trump can sit back and say i had an okay night. if that goes to cruz as well, you have something to look at. >> what do you think? >> i think we even talk about it on your show, these closed voting events, you get a good sense of where the die-hard republicans stand. they are not standing with donald trump, not in the case of kansas. i wonder if you will be able to read into the voting results tonight if that debate performance on thursday night hurt him at all. because again, not just for traditional conservatives but a few of the things he kind of looked shaky on that really

appealed to his core base. >> he looked shaky before. the vulgarity. >> i talked to my mother earlier and asked if she needed me to explain what he was talking about. she said of course not. but the shift on immigration and the shift back, we need to keep the most talented people here, then they put out the statement on the visas yesterday morning trying to clarify that. the contributions to hillary clinton and bernie -- and harry reid and nancy pelosi and the like, will that hurt him. i don't know. >> we don't know. then there's the other factor. i want to go to doug in new orleans, but one factor here that could be an issue among conservative voters is donald trump skipping out on the cpac speech, conservative conference in maryland today. they threw their support to ted cruz. that's almost as important i would imagine as winning a primary caucus because that has potentially effect.

still too early to tell. your thoughts? >> there is that spillover effect. it's part of a larger spillover effect we are seeing with ted cruz given the election results tonight. there's another spillover effect of rubio's absence from where i am right now in new orleans, louisiana. he had scheduled a rally last night at the 11th hour, he canceled it, instead going to kansas. not a bad strategy given the fact he had the endorsement of the sitting governor, brownback, a gop stalwart, also the endorsement of senator pat robertson, and former senator and esteemed presidential candidate bob dole. ultimately turned out not to be fruitful because we saw what happened to ted cruz in kansas. he won big-time. his most dominant win to date, it appears cruz is also on track to win the state of maine. cruz did appear here last night and he absolutely tore into donald trump for trump's self-professed flexibility.

>> did you notice how many times donald said he was going to be flexible? over and over again, he said he was going to be flexible. now, let me tell you something. in washington, d.c., flexible is code word for they're getting ready to stick it to you. >> cruz is no doubt banking on kansas as a big win to give him momentum heading into florida with its delegate-rich 99 delegates, demographic dream for senator cruz or for donald trump, for anybody. but what we are seeing right now is a strategy, a two-pronged strategy to attack rubio from both sides. from cruz, who has moved many of his forces from up north now down to florida. he is opening 20 satellite offices in florida and from donald trump on the other end. they want to take him out, some people have suggested this is a marriage of sorts between trump and cruz.

if it is a marriage, it's a marriage of convenience. perhaps indicative of that old adage about warfare, the enemy of my enemy is my friend. if they are able to take out that enemy it's back to warfare between trump and cruz. >> please tell me that wasn't a chainsaw. all right. thank you very much, buddy. we appreciate it. we will be going back to you. he talked about the enemy of my enemy is my friend. you had mitt romney very cautious in urging restraint when it came to donald trump but by the same token, you have bob dole who is okay with trump, he just hates ted cruz. then you have the state of nebraska, he apparently dislikes them all and wants to find an alternative. whether you want to call these guys the establishment or not, there is no agreement on who it should be. that could be explained,

confusing message here. it does appear early on with that cpac endorsement to be a big night for ted cruz or at least a night where he could argue he picked up a couple more caucuses, maybe a primary down the road here. and closes that gap with donald trump. he will lead this evening, he hopes, with more delegates than donald trump and close what is now about a 90 delegate gap, maybe make it about 70. hard to say. peter barnes picking apart that. peter, that is almost like a caucus or primary win in and of itself. >> yeah. ted cruz having a very good day so far at least. cruz winning that cpac straw poll with 40% of more than 2600 votes cast. marco rubio captured 30%. donald trump got 15%. john kasich came in with 8%. dr. ben carson has suspended his campaign this past week. he got 2%. cruz, rubio and kasich and

carson spoke this year to cpac which tends to attract younger conservatives, the age of the average straw poll voter was 35. trump was supposed to address the group this morning as you know, but he backed out at the last minute yesterday in a campaign in kansas and florida. today, a controversial move that cpac said would hurt him with conservative voters. no way to gauge for sure whether it hurt him today in kansas, where he spoke this morning and which he probably isn't too happy with tonight. >> we have got to get out today, we have got to caucus. i'm going to go with you. we are going to caucus and after making this huge u-turn to kansas, if i lose, i'm going to be so angry at you. >> i know there's a wizard of oz joke in here somewhere but i will leave it to you to come up with it. trump's decision to skip cpac may not hurt his quest for the nomination. according to the national journal for the 21 past straw

polls that cpac has records for which includes many non-presidential election years, winners have clinched the republican nomination only about 20% of the time. the good news for cruz is that when the cpac straw poll was taken in a presidential election year, the winner got the nomination more than half the time. >> i did not know that. all right. thank you very much. ted cruz is trying to see himself as the alternative to donald trump and eventually make this a two man race. jenny, how is this turning out early on to you in what appears to be again, early on, a good night for ted cruz and his argument, i am the alternative? i am the after donald trump? >> well, if things turn out tonight the way that they look like, it's shaping up to be a two-man race. we have already seen that ted cruz can take on donald trump. he can beat donald trump. so i think it looks really good for ted cruz. i think that it's important for

people who are looking at the way that the landscape of the election looks right now in the republican primary, if you don't want donald trump to be the nominee, ted cruz is the alternative who can beat him and if you are angry at the way that washington, d.c. works, ted cruz has proven he can take that anger and stand up to the establishment and fight on behalf of the people around our country while living and fighting for the constitution. >> lou, a lot is made of the caucuses and republican only voting states and that that was something that would benefit ted cruz anyway. so what's being set up here? >> well, i think that's the issue here is to find out whether or not this really is an inflection point in this campaign. was it an influence of what everyone considered to be at best an average performance by don trump -- donald trump in the thursday fox debate, was it the

intervention of the uninvited white knight, mitt romney, who was throwing little dirty bombs everywhere and apparently will continue through tomorrow. all of that is -- those are the ponderables that frankly aren't. we just done have enough data yet. we are going to see with michigan. we are going to see certainly with florida and super tuesday what's happened here. but it to me looks like an inflection point. it really does. >> we are going to look at that. we mentioned at the outset of this broadcast, something we are focusing on, a new michigan poll that is out. keep in mind this is the state that john kasich has been campaigning in but many have laughingly said for naught. he was trailing by about 22 points two weeks ago n a poll out tonight he leads over donald trump by three points. whether that means anything -- two points, i apologize. whether that really could be extrapolated to believe that michigan voting on tuesday is a

precursor to governor kasich winning his home state of ohio on the winner take all days of the 15th, it is way too early to say. but that is something that was not seen on a day otherwise where it is not an inflection point. to lou's point, it would represent a slowdown in the trump momentum. >> i think skipping cpac might have hurt him because if you are going to be the biggest swinging ego in the country and you are going to run on his -- no, you are going to run on being the toughest guy in the room who is going to bust skulls and get stuff done when nobody else has been able to do that, and i'm fighting for you, then it looks like i couldn't take the heat because i had a bad debate performance. i know the reasons that they put out there, but he still missed it. >> he might have calculated it would be a waste of political capital. he had 20,000 plus fans waiting in orlando to see him. he might be focusing -- >> it looks like -- it just

does. >> it is a little early for us to jump on all this. i think when we see louisiana it will be more interesting. >> crucial. crucial. >> i think even though, i know we are starting to develop this story it's a rough night for trump. it may very well be. one thing is maybe not for sure but more certain than that, it looks like a rough night for rubio. >> it does. >> one of the biggest numbers to me this week, we don't talk as much about prediction markets as we do about polls, but the prediction markets where people bet their money on what the outcome is going to be, they were giving rubio like a 25% chance a week ago of being the nominee second to trump. he's gone down to like seven where cruz is now up in the 20s. so the way people look at the race is clearly changed. give cruz some credit in the way he organized and -- >> he is now trying to position himself, i'm the guy. yeah, rubio's won one race but he might pick up a couple more states tonight, up to six primary and/or caucus victories. >> by the way, trump is still well ahead. >> this is only for a second choice. no, no, absolutely. of course. i was just talking about who --

rubio versus cruz and trying to make -- >> i have to do a correction. earlier i said cruz is putting together ten offices in florida. 20, i have got to double that. i don't often err to the underside. sorry. just trying to keep it -- >> oh, totally. >> the michigan poll came out of nowhere, jenny beth. i don't want to make too much of a poll. but i followed this poll because it has been showing donald trump swamping and it covers the period or at least two of the days post debate to lou dobbs' point, a debate which i think even donald trump acknowledged he didn't have his finest performance. i'm wondering if we are seeing the first signs of damage from that. >> well, i think that we are seeing the signs of damage and i think as people learn more about donald trump, now that people are going okay, he may really be

the nominee, he could be the nominee, what do we really know about him, where does he stand on his positions, how would he be if he were to be president, i think that a lot of voters are taking a second look and saying wait, we need to make sure that we understand who he is. he flip-flopped on a lot of the issues and has shown time after time his number one position on any issue is what's best for him. >> that's your opinion. okay. go ahead. >> it may be your opinion but -- lou dobbs, by the way. good to see you. the fact is ted cruz has flip-flopped a dozen times on principal issues over the course of time. donald trump has flip-flopped. every one of them, marco rubio has been obfuscatory of his own flip-flops. >> don't use big words. >> okay. i want to withdraw that word if i may and insert covered it up. >> i like that. >> the reality is flip-flops,

flexibility. if the democrats were smart they would get ahold of the putin thing where obama is saying he's going to be flexible to medvedev and -- >> it applies to all. you're right. maybe there is more scrutiny with trump. i want to start very early on, going into tonight, with these delegates at stake, donald trump was at 329 delegates. a quarter of the way there. which also means, we did the math on this, three quarters of the way not there. >> together we did that. it took awhile. you missed your calculation. i know there is a lot of distraction. you missed it by a total of 19 out of 350 delegates. >> i'm getting there. i'm fairly confident. we have a lot more coming in. it is anyone's ball game here, especially when it comes to louisiana. especially when it comes to what's going on in kentucky. a good strong performance by donald trump in that state could change people's perception as to

whether or not he did slip or not. much more scrutiny than he's seen in some time happening on this not super saturday, not so-so saturday. i'm going to call it surprising saturday. when you think about success, what does it look like? is it becoming a better professor by being a more adventurous student? is it one day giving your daughter the opportunity she deserves? is it finally witnessing all the artistic wonders of the natural world? whatever your definition of success is, helping you pursue it, is ours. t-i-a-a. unless you have allergies., then your eyes may see it differently. only flonase is approved to relieve both itchy, watery eyes and congestion. no other nasal allergy spray can say that. when we breathe in allergens our bodies react by over producing six key inflammatory substances that

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campaigning aggressively in florida. i would think that's where he wants to be. >> he also wants to pick up those delegates from puerto rico, where he has apparently a reasonable chance in his campaign's estimation. >> that would presumably help him in florida? >> it would presume he at least would bolster him against what might be a 99 delegate loss in florida. >> that's right. his people are saying he's going to keep going on if he doesn't do well. >> i look at it as insurance. >> the other thing, cruz moved to open was it 20 offices? >> that was amazing. >> that really, so much for that romney strategy. >> that could be a clever move. i will not question that. >> thank you very much. >> let me do a quick interpretation. he said neil is completely wrong and i'm doing the smart thing. neil reads the prompter for a living.

>> what do you make of him being there? >> it doesn't make any sense that he's not in florida, i don't think. in the grand scheme of things. the lead that donald trump has, the average, the real clear -- 18.7% right now. in addition to cruz opening those 20 offices, there are some veterans who are going to be appearing in some tv ads that this group is running. it's the american future fund. it's going to start running in florida, hitting donald trump directly. it says that it's a nonprofit, anti-trump group, nonprofit. but they basically attack him dodging the draft in vietnam, serving only himself and -- >> that's to bring down trump, dump trump, whatever they want to call it. cruz doesn't play, he doesn't play that game, in other words, is i think what it shows with these offices opening up. whereas kasich won't spend a

minute there, rubio won't spend a minute in ohio. >> we know he might be the ultimate libertarian in the general election. governor, you are looking at this and seeing what's transpiring. do you think that the republicans are beginning to coalesce around two guys and those two guys might be marco rubio's brilliant spanish performed in puerto rico notwithstanding, around ted cruz and donald trump? >> it does appear that way. and it is interesting and you mentioned it, the third party is going to be the libertarian party on the ballot in all 50 states and because of deadlines that passed this week, although there may be other third party candidates, none of them are going to be on the ballot in all 50 states and i do want to stress, i'm seeking the libertarian nomination. i hope to be that nominee. >> so when you say you hope to be that nominee, you were last go-round but now there's a wider field looking for that spot. what makes you think it's yours?

>> well, i'm out working for it right now. i'm in richmond, virginia having participated in a libertarian debate tonight. last week i was in alabama and mississippi doing the same. probably participate in a dozen libertarian debates to try and garner this nomination. and you know, i'm all in favor of an open process for libertarians to be able to pick and choose. if i were objective in looking at the field, i would vote for myself and if i didn't have that -- if i didn't have that sentiment, i don't think i would be here doing it. >> i always think of course you would vote for yourself. that makes perfect sense. governor, thank you. lot of breaking news here. let's set a quick review of where we stand. in kansas, we can safely estimate that has been a pickup and win for ted cruz. maybe by a significant enough margin to give him about 30 of the delegates from that state. way too early to sort of break that down. maine is edging toward ted cruz. but no guarantees yet.

kentucky could be another story. it could be a night-saving event for donald trump. right now his lead has been pared just a tad. we are not committing anyone to anything at this point. louisiana, of course, when its polls close in about 30 minutes, the only primary on the docket is for both democrats and republicans. 46 delegates at stake there. the democrats have three big events this weekend, nebraska tonight for the democrats, louisiana tonight for the democrats and tomorrow the maine cauc caucus. i don't know why the parties do it this way. different nights for the same caucus. their residents must love it.

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welcome back to our primary coverage. we want to let you know, 155 gop delegates up for grabs this evening. very much like to start in kentucky so a bit too close to call. you will see the numbers, only 21% insofar but you can see clearly, donald trump has the lead. so rand paul country, obviously he is no longer in the race. a lot of people wondering where these libertarian votes will go. you can see so far, with just 21%, it is trump and then cruz.

so moving on to maine, where donald trump actually got the endorsements of the governor of maine, you can still see only 12% in, and cruz right there at 43%, trump at 36% and change. little bit of a surprise in the sense that this is thought to be more moderate and appeal more to voters who would go for trump. it seems like cruz is leading but again, only 12% of the vote in so far. going to kansas, this is the only one that has been clearly called. you will see for senator cruz, just under 50%. neil made the point earlier you had in the last primary race rick santorum who really swept the state. this is a really strong conservative threshold there. it shows marco rubio's weakness in the fact that rick santorum had endorsed rubio. a big win in kansas which backs up the midwest corridor so far for senator cruz.

back to you. >> what probably at some point of concern for senator rubio is governor brownback had backed him and that did very little good in this conservative state. still blowback for the governor over tax cuts that didn't generate nearly the revenue he thought and there was sort of this conservative cabal that said you let us down. he was never able to get all the bad press that stuck to him. he won, was re-elected but ever so barely. meantime, there is also the fact what role if any did the former standard bearer of this party, mitt romney, play in the middle of all this. when i chatted with him, he just said he had to clear his conscience. he said this is not the guy we wanted. he had gotten donald trump's backing four years ago, he said donald trump is not the same man i remember four years ago. many look at it and say we don't believe it but there is division

among the establishment players. they are not all on the same page when it comes to stopping donald trump or that matter, ted cruz. ben stein has gone so far as to say if donald trump were the nominee of the party, we seriously consider voting for hillary clinton or bernie sanders. were you drunk at the time you said this? >> no, i wasn't drunk. but actually, the conversation was mostly about trade policy. that all seems to have been forgotten in all the wild brouhaha about my brief conversation. i was in a studio in washington, d.c., i was -- with great respect, i thought about it prayerfully. i cannot vote for hillary clinton because i cannot vote for a candidate who is not pro-life even though hillary has a superior position on trade to mr. trump's, i cannot vote for a candidate who is not pro-life. pro-life for me is the single

biggest issue. >> hillary and trump, who do you vote for? >> i have to vote for trump. even though i don't like him, he says he's pro-life. that's -- >> quickly, sanders and trump. >> oh, trump without question. >> so now -- >> i'm pro-life. >> i understand that. >> pro-life means everything to me. >> you were so, you know, concerned about donald trump, you would never vote for him, there are two cases where you would. >> no, no, no, i would not like to vote for him. maybe i will vote just for you, neil, or maybe i will vote for degan who should be president, the best possible president, but i cannot vote for a person who is not pro-life. >> so you misrepresented yourself coming on this show. >> i'm afraid i didn't misrepresent myself. nobody asked me what the topic was going to be. but i'm not going to vote for a candidate who is not pro-life. >> you realize that neil is

basically saying he's disappointed because of the depth of your intellect, your conviction and your values. that's the only thing that's upsetting him. >> my intellect is not that deep but i'm very passionately pro-life and pro-life means a great, great, great deal to me. pro-america, pro-life. that's what i am concerned about. i think mr. trump is much more so in those veins than mrs. clinton although mrs. clinton and i were schoolmates at yale. she was a charming young woman and a lovely person. i'm not going to vote for a person who is not pro-life. >> yale had a big year that year. i have talked to more people -- >> she was two years behind me. >> -- he also, one of your classmates. >> he's a super smart guy. >> yes, he is. >> a genius. >> no wonder you guys were in the same class. >> he's much smarter than i am. >> we will debate that

throughout the evening. the reality is we are confronted with a choice between cruz and trump. between those two? >> cruz in a heartbeat. cruz i think is not a perfect human being as none of us is but this is a person who has not filed bankruptcy to defeat his bond holders, his investors, not a person who made a habit of philandering in the media. >> may i ask a question? >> please. >> what bankruptcy have you ever issued in which they did not try to defeat their creditors? >> oh, no, no. this was way worse than that. this was way worse than that. >> i was afraid of that. i was make a joke. >> he made promises to his bond

holders which he was quite clear once the case went to trial or went to its discovery that he never intended to honor those promises. >> that would not be the first time i heard of that. >> i agree. i agree. john dillinger is not the first person to rob a bank. i wouldn't want him as president either. >> what do you think of what mitt romney was doing? a lot of people are saying he's trying to steal the election from donald trump. what do you think? >> i think trump had him right when he said he's a choke artist. coha he could have won that election against mr. obama. he threw it away in the second debate. i think trump is right about that. i don't think romney has any business claiming to be a great expert in how to win elections. by the way, i don't consider him the world's most heads-up businessman either. i don't think he's a super clean-cut guy as far as business is concerned. maybe there aren't any and maybe we don't want a businessman as president. maybe we want a president --

>> he was genuinely appalled by the language, the tone, the tenor of this. >> i'm appalled too. i am appalled too. i'm disgusted. >> don't be such a cynical, jaded -- >> i will never change my mind about her. with all due respect, romney, he was trying to do his best to help the party. god bless him. he's right, trump has deescalated political rhetoric to a level so low it would have been unimaginable a few months ago. just for that reason alone he's a very undesirable person. >> ben, thank you very much. as he was wrapping up -- >> my pleasure. >> holy cow. >> i'm declaring my candidacy

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all right. we are about 14 minutes away from polls closing in louisiana. the only primary tonight. we are very very close to saying that ted cruz has won the main caucuses. they do it in a very unique way. they announce it. they go by district by district. they are announcing it now. let's just say they're not big on graphics there. when they do, and it's looking like ted cruz will pick it up, i don't know how the allocation of those go in that state. very confusing. byzantine. it could be one of those deals where someone wins the popular vote and months later you find out the breakdown of the delegate vote but it is looking like cruz, it is looking like donald trump in the state of kentucky. louisiana is anyone's guess once polls close there in about 13 minutes. lou dobbs, you're looking at

this and seeing -- if you are donald trump and you win kentucky, you could say all right, well, i had a good night myself. >> you're looking at, what, 46 delegates. >> right. you look at this and you start looking ahead to some of these other states like michigan. one does not a trend make but concern he's losing momentum. how big a one? >> the reality is we also saw a change in momentum for kansas. he had been ahead earlier but again, not terrific polling in my opinion. it dropped down to six points and it turned out to be a trajectory, a trend rather than just a snapshot. the same thing may be so in michigan. i truly believe that trump is confronted with a choice here. he's got to decide whether or not he is going to again push out the middle class working man and family and say you know, this election is about you and

we are the ones who are the targets of the establishment of the republican party, witness mitt romney, witness paul ryan, witness the last, you know, 20 years and the way the party has treated -- >> you have been saying, i caught your fine show -- >> i watch you often. >> one of the things, there was this cabal set to go after trump. isn't it a good thing to go after or at least to say the trouble that a democrat would do in a full election? >> first of all, the idea that the democrats have greater opposition research and greater investigative capacities than do the poor little republicans who are quietly and humbly behind their desk, i don't think that's a serious argument even though it's being advanced mightily by

the establishment. the reality is everybody has been driving every piece of oppo research on donald trump and -- >> i guess what i'm asking, is it starting to stick? >> i personally don't think so because i don't think there's been anything new revealed. whether it's trump university, whether it is trump beef or whatever it was. >> your point is his positions have shifted. >> the only thing -- >> then they all ought to be disqualified. >> the only thing that can hurt donald trump is donald trump at this point. certainly when he softened that position on immigration a little bit and they seemed to backtrack on the h1b visas -- >> i think he was positioning himself for november. we can say ted cruz has won maine. >> that's not who he is. that's not his hardcore issue. i don't want to hear about how

flexible you are. another thing, it's very hard to run -- >> he is going counter brand there. >> to your point, you have got mitt romney and all these people going after donald trump. it's hard to rally people around an anti. you are not giving them another alternative. people who love trump don't have an alternative. they are not going to go to ted cruz. >> why not? there is really good news emerging for trump tonight in that it's almost kind of a reverse way in that ted cruz is solidifying himself as the number two. i think because where does ted cruz go after tonight? he was supposed to have a great night on tuesday. we had the conversation months ago, they would have said super tuesday is going to be great for ted cruz. as we got closer to that point it wasn't going to be as great. he supposedly outperformed and had a pretty good night. looks like he will have a pretty good night tonight. what about after this? when is ted cruz going to -- >> as you were speaking, the breakdown of the delegates is

12, 9 and 2. only the top three finishers get delegates. 12 delegates will go to ted cruz, nine to donald trump and two will go to john kasich. to your point, at the beginning, donald trump still accruing delegates along the way. >> let me go to hazard one observation on trump. trump has gone from being -- he is, as you pointed out, besieged, attacked from every quarter, and he is right now, we will all acknowledge, the alpha male warrior and he has been in that mode i mean for months. he projects strength. he projects the ability to take it all and prevail. but the reality is he stays now in warrior mode because there is incoming all the time. >> on a certain level, you are one of the most esteemed journalists -- >> this is going to be good. >> harvard educated, pedigree

background. i have never heard you use that kind of language. >> that's not who i am. >> i know. here's what i'm saying. >> let me assure you i can use that language. >> but i goods whuess what i'm without sounding like a prude, is that beginning to hurt him? a lot of people said little marco, little marco, the hand. it hit an inflection point itself. >> i think that's right. i think it's a component of exactly what i'm talking about and that is because he is in warrior mode, he has lost to some degree or denied himself the charm that he normally and naturally has and exudes. rather than going to that side of it, he is so defensive that he is at war now and he is not connected as he once was i think with his supporters who are, they are loyal. >> they are that. by the way, that intensity will

prevail. he needs to become a retail politician once again. >> can we add to that, i think what he said in that debate that made everybody's hair stand up on the back of their neck, that showed insecurity. that's not the donald trump we have seen until now. >> he did more of it. >> women hear that and go what are you insecure about? >> i think it says something like five to ten billion. >> here's what -- the reason i raise the point is that just mitt romney appearing, just appearing here without anyone hearing, they just said okay, neil's in the tank for whatever. and you hear this from politicians. but his fans are so rabid, so into it, they won't care that you might have raised the very points and criticisms they. they see mitt romney, they see a cabal forming against their guy and they will rip you a new one.

>> the trump people. that's how they come at you. >> i was looking at, i sort of took some notes because i spent super tuesday with cruz, then the south carolina primary with trump. by the way, donald trump said why is connell with cruz. >> i was making notes of the people we talked to. it's interesting, everybody, this is a credit to cruz in some ways, has political animals that follow him and run his campaign. almost obama-like in the way he runs his campaign. that's why he's doing well tonight in a lot of caucus states. trump is the complete opposite. it's all about emotion for the people in his campaign. but also for the people who follow him. any time you ask any type of question -- >> you're right about that. [ speaking simultaneously ] >> that's why they get so angry at you, neil. >> most politicians do that. anything you say, they will twist and turn and say get it back. >> these people are -- it's an

emotional campaign. >> they rare also, some of them are hateful. i have gotten the hate talking about my fake southern accent. but being a fan of reality television that after a few seasons, it gets really stale. i think that trump's campaign might be in its fourth season. >> that's a very good point. >> you are hearing the same thing over and over again. >> i got to tell you, i have been saying to myself and to some of his supporters and the audience, i think the guy is great but he's got to reload. his knowledge base has got -- cannot be static. >> what if he doesn't have anything else? >> the man is immensely talented. no doubt about that. >> we forget that. the language, the coarseness of it. isn't it time to get beyond that? >> it is. i have to say. you know i'm no prig but i got to tell you, that was pretty -- i've got to say this was the

most memorable campaign. >> there is that. there is that. we are going to be in position maybe to make some more calls here at least to show tu direction of the evening. what could be a good night for senator cruz and a bad night for marco rubio. a really bad night for john kasich. we will spell it out. success, what does it look like? is it becoming a better professor by being a more adventurous student? is it one day giving your daughter the opportunity she deserves? is it finally witnessing all the artistic wonders of the natural world? whatever your definition of success is, helping you pursue it, is ours. t-i-a-a. weand improved our e-commerce with the tools on fedex small business center. it's really helped us become more efficient... sweet. unlike this new open floor plan. what do you mean? well there's no privacy anymore. and how many times a day do i apply the ointment? nowhere to have a meeting... and it's just...

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all right. too close to call in a lot of these states. 20 seconds left of that from polls closing in louisiana.

the only primary site on the docket tonight for republicans. it's three caucus sites and of course louisiana, the primary. this was a state at least a couple weeks ago donald trump was leading in, as he was leading in michigan. i don't want to overmplay this poll here but it stood out because this polling organization had him up by 20, 22 points, someone told me 30 points about a month ago. i don't know if that's true. bottom line, it's more of a race now in michigan with john kasich out front. whether that is telegraphing strength for the ohio governor when it comes to his own state of ohio, but can you imagine if on tuesday he were to pick up michigan and then the 66 delegates he could potentially get in ohio? cobe rig he could be right back in this thing. then it keeps everybody in the mix. >> big time. big time. >> we have the kansas secretary of state. a big supporter of donald trump. very good to have you.

it didn't work out well for donald trump in kansas. doesn't appear to work out well in maine. could pick up kentucky. what happened in kansas? >> well, you know, i think donald trump was always in a disadvantageous position in kansas if you look historically at our state, in 2012, as you mentioned in an earlier segment, you had santorum beat romney and romney had pretty much wrapped it all up and still kansas voted for santorum. if you go back to 2008, huckabee beat mccain in kansas and mccain had pretty much wrapped it up. we have a history in our state of -- >> being stubborn. >> going against the front-runner, especially if the second choice person is more evangelical, too. that's been the pattern each time. so i wasn't surprised at all. i thought there was a chance trump by bringing people in and stuff, but it's also a closed caucus which makes it harder to bring in new voters. it was always going to be an uphill struggle for trump in

kansas. >> if you could advise donald trump right now, every front-runner stumbles. jimmy carter stumbled in the '76 primaries, lost ten of them before he stabilized and got the nomination easily. michael dukakis lost to gary hart before he stabilized, got the nomination. you could make the argument that even four years ago, mitt romney lost ten primaries to rick santorum including your caucus state at the time. so you know, it's not unpre pr s unprecede unprecedented. if you could advise donald trump how he recalibrates, what would you tell him to do? >> i would say don't pivot. i would say go with what brought you where you are and that is a very firm position on illegal immigration. that's what attracted me to the trump campaign. a very -- continue to take no prisoners approach but in a way

double down on it. don't do what it appeared might have happened, don't veer off course on the h1b visa questions, don't make concessions, hold a very firm course because that will bring people who are cruz supporters over to trump and i think he needs to consolidate the conservative anti-establishment part of the party. if you look between the two of them, cruz and trump, you have a huge swath of the party now going with the anti-establishment candidates. >> a huge swath of the establishment [ inaudible ] both those guys, right? >> sorry, good swath of the establishment again? >> neither ted cruz nor donald trump. >> that's right. that's right. >> he was saying if he stands firm on his positions, didn't what came out in the debate is that we don't know what his positions are? >> right. he makes -- it wasn't a slip. he made a point in the debate of

saying i'm changing my position. we need to keep the most talented people here and then before the sun was up, the campaign had put out a statement clarifying how -- where he falls on the visas and that companies like disney use them to bring in cheaper foreign workers. another thing on the immigration thing, i don't know why he wouldn't say i will call the "new york times" and tell them to release -- >> well, i agree with his position there. wouldn't you say off the record -- >> i don't know why a youth organization wouldn't be excoriated for leaking that information out of an off the record -- >> absolutely. >> he should have said that, though. he should have said that. >> he said i think off the record it's a bad thing. >> off the record is all of a sudden sacred less than a week prior, he wanted to change the libel laws to sue the "new york times"? if it was me and i was running for president i would call and say you know what, i don't want

this behind the shadows anymore but the "times" is using it against me. >> what's the worst that came out of that exchange? it was he's open to compromise. i didn't think that that was -- >> again, it goes to this alpha warrior mode that he's in, saying what is correct which is that it was off the record and there should never have been a record drawn. by the way, if i'm in a meeting and it's off the record and i'm running for anything or whatever, and it's off the record, and i see somebody with a tape recorder, or making notes, that's beyond unprofessional. >> they all do. >> not all. but apparently the "times." >> his base hates the mainstream media. you see it everywhere all the time on social media. why did he even do a sit-down with the "times"? >> why in the world walk into the belly of the beast? >> he is an unusual candidate. >> because he's comfortable doing so.

i guess i'm stepping back, i want to pick your brain, by the way, it is official, bernie sanders won nebraska. my view on this subject is i didn't find it so damning or damaging that donald trump relayed he was flexible and talked about how maybe i'll make the wall four feet shorter. he made the point it wasn't all black and white, there was room for negotiation, yet it was interpreted as being phony or disingenuous or wink and nod to the american people. >> i think he was saying he needed to be very clear and i think he has been. his principle stays the same. the minor details of how quickly the wall gets built, et cetera, might be where the flexibility is. i want to echo something lou said in an earlier segment. the other strength that donald trump has is with the working man and working woman. that's one of the other reasons i find his candidacy attractive. we have been looking for ways to broaden the republican base.

here we have a guy who single-handedly is doing it by bringing in all the working class people and i would like to see the republican party become the party of work as opposed to the democrats who have become increasingly the party of welfare. by bringing in the blue collar voters, i think trump, that's his strength and he should keep on doing it. >> he's got to be consistent then. got to be consistent. i think part of it, even though the immigration thing was way overplayed, we don't quite know what we're getting. right? >> we never know. we just elected barack obama seven and a half years into a monstrous -- >> whatever you thought about donald trump was wrong. >> i'm sorry? >> everything you heard about donald trump, everything was wrong. he reverses himself. >> he doesn't believe any of it. he's a phony. >> one of the reasons he's attracted so much attention and did so immediately and our colleague, howie kurtz reporting that part of the reason he did

it was to set a cornerstone for his campaign moving into the general election. the wall, it's a one word program, agenda and platform and as long as that remains in place, he is going to be formidable. once he permits it to be chipped away and he kids about raising it or lowering it depending on the circumstance, but the wall says all that we need to know. i don't need to hear a bunch of minutae. >> getting lost is whether he believes everything he's saying. >> i think he believes everything he says. if you examine his career and who he is, when he says he's going to deport 11 1/2 -- i shouldn't say this, i'm messing with his campaign, but 11 1/2 million immigrants, i never thought that was anything more than an initial bargaining position. >> those comments on the visas, the so-called highly skilled workers, that's almost a laughable amount of flexibility in one night.

>> what's more laughable, a man who gives a speech in the 2004 democratic convention and talks about there are no red states, there are no blue states, only the united states, and then creates the most divisive administration in history? >> that's what people are afraid of because they have been through that. they have a detector now and so -- >> no, they don't. no, we don't. >> you know what? when he says quote, in 2008 i supported hillary clinton, unquote, you are not on the wall -- >> we are watching a democratic front-runner who is under federal investigations, who rudy giuliani says just on the face has committed 13 breaches of federal law. we know that the experience again of hillary clinton is quite different than say david petraeus. this is all in front of the national media. it's in front of every american.

and we are possessed of great common sense. i'm talking about the american people, not necessarily the media. and it rolls off. this is preposterous. to suggest that -- we are talking about not double standards, diffuse standards. they suit biases rather than objective reality. >> she doesn't talk about the size of her body parts. >> who doesn't? >> hillary or bernie sanders. >> or anyone else. >> i think on that basis, you have decided who you want to leave the country. >> i just want to know who's funnier. >> if he keeps it up with the women, and he is the nominee, he is handing her female votes. he just is. >> well, early on, it is not hurting him so far. louisiana results which are coming in, donald trump has an early lead in the state. so does hillary clinton. i think i was looking at a good site. he has got about a two to one lead over his nearest opponent, ted cruz.

>> to that point, the democrats in each of these races today has lost, lost voters. republicans have gained voters in each of these races over 2012. he is not losing because of women. he is not losing on any basis that i have seen demographically because of his crude and crass and offensive remarks. do i want him to change that? do i want him to get rid of it? absolutely. >> don't give her ammunition is my point. if he's running against her -- >> i think there is sufficient ammunition against her that any candidate worth their salt can -- >> the only thing about the turnout, the turnout argument that lou was making that trump is bringing in new voters is absolutely true. we have seen it in all of these. they are new types of voters who haven't voted before, many of them. some of them voted for democrats in the past, are now voting republican. the problem for trump is that potential problem for trump is

that is happening with all the republicans in the race. some of the traditional republicans are still there voting for whoever they are voting for, whether rubio or kasich or maybe even cruz. will those people stay home in the general election and not vote for trump? i think that's an open question. >> in the exit polls on super tuesday, more than four out of ten people in some states that he won said they would not be happy if he was at the top of the ticket. they would not be happy n virginia it was 54% said they would be dissatisfied if trump wins the nomination. >> by the way, all these states said louisiana would be a nice win for trump tonight. >> it's looking like that. i want to bring in steve forbes. steve, the argument is, i agree with lou in this respect about all politicians going to sort of dance and their positions change. the argument with donald trump was that he was going to be in your face and maybe appeared to be doing less of that. if it appears that he does maybe more of that than we thought, will that hurt him? what do you think?

>> i think it's partially a matter of timing. if i was advising him, i would have told him wait until you wrap up the nomination before reaching out to the center in a general election. ronald reagan, while he had very strong core opinions and principles, also knew that life doesn't go in a straight direction when you are a political leader. it's a matter of timing and how you do it. the embarrassment over the visas shows that they hadn't thought that thing fully through. if you are going to signal that you are going to encompass more and more people, i would have started with the tax plan which is not bad. i wish he had gone to the flat tax and gone from there. so it's timing, how you do it and you got to think this thing through. >> on that point -- >> he should wait until march 15th. >> that begs this other issue that's going on. it's just my opinion. i could be very wrong. he jumped the gun a little bit and was starting to pivot toward the general election, maybe

withdrawing from position thas might bring him back slightly to the middle and de that too soon. i'm wondering if that could hurt him. what do you think? >> i think it hurt him partially. i think the real thing was the timing was off. he should have waited a couple weeks or months. 78. >> then you should have waited, now was not the time to jump the gun? >> well, i think that this country's in a lot of trauma right now and has been the victim of really bad policies and government. we need somebody to stand up for the average guy on the street and say enough is enough. trump has hit a core, he needs to stay the true track that he's on. there's plenty of time for compromise. he knows how to compromise. he's not my personal choice because i think he's crass and crude in a lot of ways, but the man's got a wisdom and an instinct for the common man and people better start paying attention to him. i don't care what the numbers say. you have got to look at the emotion of the common man on the street today. they are fed up with government.

>> he's got something else, too. he may be -- not may be, he is brilliantly intuitive on a host of issues and has built a fortune. one of the reasons i don't worry about some of this wishy-washy stuff is because em seeii'm see man build something over the course of the last 30 years that was remarkable. to ed's point, this is a time for him to return to his retail roots and say you know what, we are not going to treat men and women like this. we are, to go to ben stein's point, talk about work. let's talk about work. because we don't respect work any longer in this country. this is a country that actually listens to nonsense spewed by george w. bush, by the way, in which he said there are jobs americans won't do. that's hogwash. there should be absolute respect for every job in this country. that's capitalism.

[ speaking simultaneously ] >> is the messenger hurting his message? that's what i'm wondering here and whether it's going to come back to bite him. he might survive tonight by evening up the caucus and primary breakdown by winning louisiana, where he has a sizeable lead early on. we are way far from calling it for him. but what do you think of that? >> well, after a tough debate performance and it was not a good one, i was at cpac, a lot of his supporters were rolling their eyes, what in the world is going on tonight, if he can come out of saturday two for four, not bad. the big one is obviously tuesday, which you talked about, which is michigan. if he wins michigan -- >> what if he don't win michigan? right now there's a poll out that shows he's trailing there. >> well, that poll has had some outlier results in the past. it's not always been accurate. i have known it for over 20 years. i wouldn't put too much stock in that one. i think given the fluidity of the situation -- >> it got it dead right four

years ago. i don't want to overstate it. if it's a trend setter, if it shows a trend -- >> see, this is where his lead is shrinking. >> this is where you show the american people leadership capability. this is true of all the candidates. three of whom face the gallows if they don't improve the next two weeks. when you face a crisis or bump in the road, how do you respond to it. how do you change your game. how do you -- >> he might not change anything because he doesn't see this as a bump in the road. >> that's another sign of leadership. when you don't give it up. >> i beg you to stop. i want to bring people up to date. kansas is going right now for ted cruz. maine is going for ted cruz. kentucky looks like it is going for donald trump. at this hour, way, way, way too early to tell, to your point, i didn't mean to jump on that, just to point out that he is

leading there, donald trump. that would be a two and two kind of split with anyone's guess in the end how it sorts out tuesday night. if he can escape this kind of even steven, i would imagine he's in good shape, donald trump. poor steve. >> well, if he comes out of four caucuses, three caucuses, close caucuses and does fairly well on saturday -- tonight, that's not bad given the tripup he had in the debate on thursday night. again, the key thing is what happens on tuesday and if he looks like he's floundering as a candidate, that's not going to be good. if he remains -- if he decides here's what i'm going to do from here on in the next two weeks, sticks to it and that means people are going to say this guy can handle a crisis. this guy can handle the pressures of a political

campaign. i have been in a couple of these things. you feel you are out there alone. enormous pressures coming in. you are getting hit from all sides. people, american people want to see how do you handle it. can marco rubio change his game plan. he's in deep trouble. >> i don't know what his game plan would be. i want to thank you. whatever happened, i apologize. i want to thank you as well, ed. for republicans, there were four big events tonight and they looked early on to split two for ted cruz, two for donald trump. to the left of the screen you are looking at a ballroom filling up fast for donald trump. he has been campaigning aggressively in florida, hoping to embarrass marco rubio in that state. ted cruz also, i learned this by watching lou, has been opening up a lot of offices there just trying -- what is he up to there? what is ted cruz trying to do? >> he's going to compete

directly with marco rubio, absolutely frustrating the wishes of those who want ted to get the romney plan into place. >> you are a romney hater. >> i'm not, but i do find him to be -- i don't really like him a lot. i don't like his judgment or lack of it and i hate the fact that he brings more ferocity against his own party than he ever took to barack obama. >> what if he has more concern for his party's future? >> i think his krn concern is not yet revealed. >> can i say one thing? you raised i think the existential question for him in terms of this race. he has already said he was sorry once and he wouldn't do it again. is there a 3.0 that will be accepted by his supporters in which he can live up to? i think if he does that, his candidacy is not all together

any worse for the wear here despite -- >> you might be right. is he capable of doing that? >> that's up to donald trump. >> you're right about that. he i want to bring in [ inaudible ]. i know you are a big supporter of ted cruz. he's having a good night. he certainly positioned himself as the alternative to donald trump. rubio isn't going away, kasich isn't going away, if you buy a michigan poll showing kasich surging or out front, positioning himself well for ohio. how does this sort out in your mind particularly for your guy who wants to make himself the single alternative? >> well, in kansas, definitely made it very clear in kansas, perhaps in maine, it's a two-man race. what i saw in the polls, we had some internal polls and it was fairly close beginning of the week. maybe it was debate but

certainly momentum moved the other way. we beat him two to one. trump came in and did what trump usually does. he came into kansas this morning and decided to insult the voters, then flew on off. that's the last thing you want to do. >> how did he insult the voters? did he tell you he would be angry? >> he air-dropped himself in, said you got to vote for me. what i'm seeing is people are about tired of him in kansas and perhaps elsewhere. but the momentum is on cruz's side, i do believe. he went from kansas all the way to maine. we will see what happens in the other two states. but that's seven victories and i think at the end of the day, the entertainment value of donald trump is going away. i'm not for sure what he stands for. i think at the end of the day, folks are going to keep moving the direction of ted cruz but we shall see. don't forget, three-fourths of the voters in kansas said no to trump. three-fourths said we don't want your salesmanship or your show.

he had some folks that did show up and vote for him. we had great turnout. a lot of those folks came out and voted against trump. if he's attracting new folks they aren't voting for him. >> would you support donald trump in the end? the week of mitt romney saying he's a bad guy? could you end up supporting him, if he were the nominee? >> i don't know that today. tell you what, i don't know what donald trump stands for. he's flexible, i guess the media likes to think that's a good thing. but we are looking for principled folks who mean what they say and say what they mean. at the end of the day they think he might want to build a wall but i don't think they believe that anymore. i don't know what he stands for. he's changed his position so many times. we have a president just like that already. why would they want another one? no, i don't know if i can support donald trump. frankly, on one hand he says he's pro-life. on the other hand he says he's for planned parenthood. he wants to erect trade walls and on the other hand he builds products outside this country.

he wants to build a wall but hires illegal immigrants. which is it? kansas said enough is enough. >> you're not quite sure about trump. >> no. no. >> we are now safely saying louisiana is going to go for trump, right? is that right? okay. by that, it looks like two and two. the kentucky caucuses and louisiana primary, two big wins, it would appear, for donald trump. kansas caucuses and maine caucuses go for ted cruz. that is about an even split of delegates tonight if that holds. >> two results, one in louisiana, one in kansas in which one beat the other by almost two to one. >> the best part for trump tonight is how bad a night it's been for rubio. >> you're right about that. >> much better to have cruz as the number two. >> does he stay in this after florida? how the heck do you keep rolling?

>> it's really on florida. >> then trump's got a lead of almost 19 percentage points at this point. where's the money going to come from? at least cruz had two to one the cash. >> he's got plenty of money. >> rubio? >> he's got money. >> he's got all the establishment support. >> it's funny because it's a weird term, they find both of these gentlemen, trump and cruz, [ inaudible ]. >> if they want a brokered convention, they want this contested convention where they will somehow stop trump, the other thing we haven't talked about, they want to do that but the second thing they want is rubio to be the guy. so how do you -- >> right now, no one's going to be leaving this race. no one's going to be leaving this race. they might get their wish. >> if you go into the convention and trump has the most amount of delegates and cruz has the second, and rubio's way down and you say well, we want to stop trump, then how do you suddenly say we want to pick rubio?

it's a horrible night for rubio. it's an okay night for cruz. none of those elites, to your point, really want cruz to be the nominee. they are going to stop trump at the convention in a contested way and give it to cruz, another guy they can't stand? doesn't seem to make sense. >> no. >> i want to just raise a point. i hit trump about women. women anecdotally don't like the way cruz sounds. his voice, that's rough. people sit back and go i don't know, man, could i listen to that for four years? >> making it sound like women are pretty demanding of politics here. >> that's a fox business alert. >> i'm doing this and lou knows better than anyone how tenuous this is. but with the pickup of two states, trump now would be at 12 primary and/or caucus wins, cruz with two more would be at six. rubio still at one, kasich still at zero. looking at this delegate breakdown of 155, you actually could have a situation where trump would pick up a little bit

more so they are about even steven, the two of them. he would pick up a little bit more by virtue of the fact that rubio would have to share in some of those states. >> i have to say to you i can't be happier because you have -- because my objection to mitt romney, to paul ryan, to all of those folks intervening and subverting, attempting to subvert the will of voters, is -- >> they are not subverting the will of voters? >> you don't think so? [ speaking simultaneously ] >> they wouldn't interfere and take that away from him. if he's shy of the 1237 that's what they are saying we will do everything to stop him. >> they are doing that now or as paul ryan put it so gloriously, everything's fair game until we get to the convention. >> but if he's shy of the 1237, that happens, right? >> what i make of the establishment right now is faced with the fact the two leading delegate winners in this

election are two guys they can't stand. >> that you're right about. >> that's the best news for the working man and woman and middle class families in this country they have had for a long time. >> they cancel each other out. we have seen that happen. >> i will take my chances because these are the best odds i have seen in a heck of a long time. >> with mitt romney coming out -- >> that does make sense. >> if he had come out last year maybe and done this, people with have a different reaction. my reaction when i saw him and heard him was you lost, dude. you lost. >> here's where i think you are all wrong. i'm not an apologist. i'm saying he didn't know. we didn't know that donald trump would emerge. >> he said in that very interview with you he's the same donald. >> no, no. when i asked about this, that was before the coarse language, before the way, the demeaning things he said about women, about the way he criticized a reporter with disabilities. all that came afterwards. then some of this other stuff.

when you give him the same benefit of the doubt you give donald trump. >> no. >> you won't? >> of course, i did. i voted for the man. >> on this you're not giving him the benefit of the doubt. >> i didn't know he has such a coarse nature that we attempt to subvert the will of the people. >> oh, come on. >> why not come out after he attacked john mccain, if that was an issue? he would go after women mercilessly on twitter before he declared his candidacy. where were you in -- >> he wrestled with it. [ speaking simultaneously ] >> you are not giving donald trump the benefit of the doubt. you are not fair, you are not balanced. >> yes, i am. >> just like your fake southern accent. >> know what i say about trump? i fully acknowledge and recognize that the people in this country who call themselves republicans have been ignored, ignored by their candidate and ignored by the leadership. they don't have jobs. look at buchanan county in

virginia. coal country, my friend. donald trump got nearly 70% of the vote because those people don't trust the leadership in the republican party. >> thank you very much. >> that's actually a compliment for a woman. i will take that anyday. >> why am i veering into bill clinton? >> that was bill clinton? >> we have a lot here. it looks like a two and two but i think we have someone pointing out for marco rubio, problematic night. he's in puerto rico. we are waiting to hear from donald trump. he's in west palm beach. looks like one of lou dobbs' country clubs. >> little more than a country club. >> lou knows it well. does it have 18 holes?

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at ally bank, no branches equals great rates. it's a fact. kind of like grandkids equals free tech support. oh, look at you, so great to see you! none of this works. come on in. what a loser, huh? >> no, no, no, i will never say that. he's got that big ring on his hand. >> he is a brilliant guy.

it's shaping up as an even steven night for the top two guys. >> even steven. but rubio is not having a great night. but i feel like the combination of rubio having a tough night, ted cruz having a good night, that's good for donald trump as i see it. >> should have had her in earlier. >> where was she when we needed her? >> let's bring in, so everyone can have fun in this, senator scott brown joining us. he was a very early supporter of donald trump before guys like chris christ ie. it is a dicey mine field, this politics. scott brown, what do you make of what seems to be a split tonight? >> well, obviously donald will get a few more delegates. as you have all pointed out, marco seems to be the one struggling, obviously. kasich, depending on how he does in michigan now, may have a

little bit of life. marco, it really comes down to florida. after the 15th, as we all said, we all know it, regardless of what the political pundits and campaigns say, after the next round, we will know a lot more. probably go down to -- kasich said he's going to be out and marco if he doesn't win florida quite frankly should be out. we will see what happens. >> he's not leaving. his people have said he's not leaving. even if he loses florida. at least john kasich has said about ohio, i lose ohio, i'm out of here. i don't see any forward -- >> listen, as somebody who has run in races, i have done 13, not including primaries, 11-2 in terms of winning and losses, it's very difficult to just say you know what, i'm done. i lost. so i think that will take care of itself ultimately. then it's a question of where we go from here. you were talking and i have been listening as i do religiously all night and all week and all

year -- >> all right. i'll play along. >> it's funny when you have the establishment so-called and mitt romney in particular coming out, mitt romney lost massachusetts by 23 points. when talking about the ticket when i ran, he only lost by eight. it's really up to the individual candidates because this whole notion about well, the establishment's great and they're going to do all these wonderful things, it's not necessarily the case. >> the establishment isn't on the same page on this. i was mentioning before, some are concerned about trump, others are concerned about ted cruz. there are others who don't like either of the guys and would like to look outside. so they're not focused. >> i know that for a fact that they don't like ted. that's okay. they don't like donald. that's okay. there's nobody coming through that door. i used the other day with you, is robert parrish or larry bird coming through that door if you are a celtics fan with rick pitino, no.

>> basketball analogy you were making. got you. >> so if in fact donald trump or ted cruz is the nominee, the question is, is the so-called establishment and everybody, the brothers and sisters, every republican, independent and reagan democrat, are they going to come out and support the nominee? if not, you know it, i know it, everybody knows it, you will have hillary clinton. then you gave up the supreme court choices, give up the ambassadors, give up all the secretaries, deputy secretaries and give all the ancillary benefits that come along with it. come on. give me a break. >> why you yelling at me? i wanted to get your opinion. >> i'm sorry. >> this is exciting. it is exciting. >> thank you very much. i want to get the democratic side of things and how this is sorting out for hillary clinton. she had a big win tonight. bernie sanders surprising people as well. kind of an even steven night for those guys as well. of course, hillary clinton is amassing the delegates quickly.

well on her way, now more than halfway there to the number of delegates she will need to be crowned the democratic nominee for president of the united states. richard fowler, democratic strategist, how do you get footing on your side? >> it's a good night for secretary clinton for sure. two wins under her belt will give her a lot of momentum going into the debate this coming sunday as well as the michigan primary on tuesday. while bernie sanders has surmounted quite a lead, quite some momentum, he definitely doesn't have the delegate count he needs to overcome her. there are still a lot of states to go. we are still in the early phases of this, a couple weeks out before hillary clinton will be officially named the nominee but it's clear bernie sanders is able to push her to the last and bring new voters into the party. >> what i worry about, someone in the party reminded me he pushed her too far to the left and she can't just get rid of him right now, annihilate him. he's not going anywhere. i imagine he will go right to the convention and she will

still be home to the left. >> here's the thing. her being a little to the left is not a bad deal if she's running against ted cruz who is all the way to the right. that being said, when she's running against somebody like donald trump which is likely going to be the republican nominee, you are going to see them agree on a lot of things. >> how do you think about that? when you look at donald trump as a nominee, i heard from many hillary clinton surrogates who salivate at that prospect. much like the jimmy carter folks did about ronald reagan being the republican nominee. we know how that one went. they really think they can annihilate him. are they getting too cocky? >> no, i think they are getting too cocky on this one. i think donald trump is a formidable candidate. he literally exploded the republican party. you had the tea party establishment and gop establishment and then donald trump, who beat them both. i think so he is a formidable candidate on trade, i think his record sort of equals out hillary clinton's record. you know, outsourcing jobs, they seem to be on the same page. they are going to be fighting for rust belt worker voters, they will be fighting for blue

collar workers. it will be a tough one. >> thank you very much. we will see how it all sorts out. the republican side, ted cruz's side, ted lonegan, good to have you again. it seems interesting to me that ted cruz is building up a very credible argument to see himself as the clear alternative to donald trump but i don't see the others leaving any time soon. how does that affect him? >> you know, things happen quickly in campaigns, decisioning can be made overnight. the big story tonight that people seem to be paying attention to is that donald trump lost maine where he was endorsed by the very popular governor. he was supposed to win maine but he lost. he then went into kansas with all these big endorsements, this very popular u.s. senator, and he lost kansas. the other two states, he can't get over 40%. donald trump has people in the majority of republicans voting against him. we keep hearing about it's going to be cruz or trump. when it comes to a head-to-head

race between ted cruz and donald trump, ted cruz will win it every single state. the other issue that's huge is that cruz wins in every poll against hillary clinton. trump loses in those polls. so the republican party is gearing up to make sure our nominee is ted cruz. he has momentum. the press seems to almost be downplaying it but certainly the guy tonight with the momentum, and that's continued since super tuesday to a great debate performance, a huge win at the cpac straw poll, very important, right through until tonight. >> do you think that cpac poll actually hurts him in that it typecasts him to that extreme right where trump seems to be reaching a broader base? >> well, where trump seems to be trying to be the populist liberal almost democrat candidate. no. when the candidate in the race for president becomes the conservative versus the liberal, ted cruz and the conservative wins every time. very much like ronald reagan which you just referred to a moment ago. ted cruz is the ronald reagan of our era, the best conservative candidate we have seen since

1988. >> donald trump calls himself the ronald reagan of his era because he's bringing all these new folks into the party and maybe changing the political landscape. >> you know what, donald trump might be bringing new folks into the party but if he was running as a democrat, they would be voting in the democrat caucuses, the democrat party. donald trump, no one knows what he stands for. one of the reasons you see this mastisive change of momentum is people waking up for that. you have to elect a donald to see what's in it. reminds me of something that's happened in the past. people want someone who stands clearly on principle and ted cruz has been steady, he's been reliable, he's been the consistent conservative for his entire career. >> there have been some vacillations. all candidates do that. quickly, i want to get your thoughts on chris christie. we touched on it briefly. he's confusing a lot of new jerseyans. no fewer than half a dozen state papers saying he should just up and leave. it's one thing to spend so many days out of the state running for president, but then to spend

a lot of days out of the state helping another guy, donald trump, run for president. what do you think of that? >> it's causing awful turmoil and a lot of damage to the republican party in new jersey. when the governor came back after new hampshire, he was supposed to be back to stay. i think the straw that broke the camel's back for voters is when he turned around and headed out again to campaign for donald trump. i don't think it would have mattered who he endorsed. in the case of trump i think it makes it particularly worse because he did it without ever telling the rest of the people in the republican party, leadership, what he was doing. so they felt alienated and look, the governor has the right to choose a candidate. i chose a candidate. i'm looking forward to the primary for president coming to new jersey. it will be a trump versus cruz race. i will predict ted cruz is going to be the winner. >> if you did stand behind ted cruz at a press conference, would you stand -- >> i would be smiling ear to ear. i would be standing with a big smile on my face because i know victory's in the future. i think that governor christie realized something very different.

>> yeah. no offense, that looked like a hostage taking. always good having you. i appreciate your taking the time. >> thank you. >> scott brown wanted to respond to a couple things he was hearing there. the former senator. apparently a big basketball fan. he joins me now. what got your goat? >> well, first of all, listen, i know there's a lot of spin when you talk about these campaigns but ted has won five, six, seven states, the same amount as bernie sanders, first of all. in the past, if everything -- >> no republican has won more except donald trump. >> yeah. no republican's won more. if you look at the last election, obviously when romney was there, trump is so far ahead in terms of the amount of voters that have come out, the amount of delegates that they have, and -- >> he's only a kwar quarter of the way there. he hasn't won this. >> that's okay. you look at the cpac, great people down there, but remember,

rand and ron paul over the previous winners, when you are talking about accomplishments, the one thing, the one reason i'm supporting donald and i love everybody, as you know i love them all, the guy has created jobs. ted cruz never created jobs. he don't have any record in the u.s. senate except filibustering. when you talk about actual accomplishments, what are they referring to specifically? he's conservative. as i said before, not everybody voting unless you are in a specific caucus situation is going to be a conservative. we need to have a broad-based appeal to include everybody. i'm not a hardcore conservative. i will put my national security, my border issues and military and fiscal against any conservative in this world. but when it comes to the social things, i'm almost a libertarian. just leave me the heck alone. donald trump is not wavering on immigration or the border situation or on trade.

he has a lot of con -- >> it's way too early. you are exactly right on that. i want to thank you and steve. i want to go back to my panel. you have been hearing a lot of this. it's all about perception, right? the perception is after tonight with donald trump and ted cruz splitting things, marco rubio might be positioning himself for better things than a rollout of primaries and caucuses his people think will be more friendly to him. right now it's a cruz/trump race. >> it certainly is. i'm sure rubio will come out and say listen, florida, the delegates worth all these states put together. i'm assuming he will make that point at some moment. i agree with one of your guests. i was actually surprised for what it's worth that senator cruz won in maine. donald trump spent all that time there thursday, he went there, he said listen, i took a detour, it was in the rain. but i think when you get to the midwest, michigan, ohio, illinois, i don't know for better or worse how senator cruz will do there. >> i don't necessarily disagree.

i think we shouldn't overstate or overlook the fact that maine is a caucus state. i think cruz's strategy similar to obama's, we talked about earlier when he did this to hillary clinton in 2008, has been to focus on the caucus states. there's a big difference between asking people to come out for a number of hours and support a candidate as we have seen in the caucuses versus to vote in the prime arkansas. the problem for cruz, although he's having a good night tonight, is the calendar. if you look at these states, where is he going to win? florida, illinois? missouri, north carolina, ohio? maybe north carolina. those are all primaries. maybe north carolina. >> are trump voters more willing to drop the vote and leave? you are saying cruz is more willing to stick it out for a few hours? >> and cruz is organized. >> we started our coverage talking about how all of these are closed contests tonight. >> republican only. >> right. and how would donald trump do withoutthe independents, the

right-leaning candidates? he did doggone okay. this is a test of how the hardcore traditional republican voters think. >> we are awaiting, donald trump is in west palm beach, florida. he spent an inordinate amount of time in florida. he's itching to embarrass marco rubio there. he has a very good shot at doing so. while we are looking at that, frank luntz is tweeting with the delegate breakdown he sees so far, 155 delegates up for grabs tonight so this is an early apportionment in his mind, ted cruz has 36, donald trump 18, marco rubio six, john kasich three. that still least more than half unaccounted for or not spoken for. >> wonder if he will be complimentary of cruz like he was the other night on super tuesday. >> i don't know. when they get to be a threat -- >> that will tell you whether he

really considers him a threat or if cruz is really helping him out by doing well. >> that's an excellent point. all right. let's take a look at some of the other races and battlegrounds tonight. are you surprised here looking at this that it does look increasingly like a split? little less so for the democrats but what do you make of that? >> for kentucky, i was following it, of course we were talking about this caucus where you really have to go and sit for six hours, you have to -- >> is it really that long? >> yes, that's the system. i think rand paul created it with himself in mind hoping it would serve him at some point. >> it also allowed rand paul to run for senate. it was really a rand paul creation. almost like florida being winner take all was made that way for jeb bush. that didn't work out. >> come on. it's saturday night. >> say that again? i'm sorry?

hold on a second. >> what? >> is that right? trump was supposed to speak. then he held back speaking. >> oh. >> what do you make of that? >> i thought you were going to tell us what he said there for a second. >> i thought you didn't want to do it. >> that's the smart thing to do. until he knows what the take was. >> do you think he waits for the others to say something? on a night like this, do you bother? >> no, no, no. once kentucky gets called officially he will step up. again, doing well in kentucky because in part, coal mining country, blue collar, union guys and gals are going for donald trump in many situations. >> are you surprised they're not going for cruz? >> cruz doesn't have the same effective message about illegal immigration and trade. that's the one-two punch in a lot of southern states. people will watch for the

evangelicals to go for cruz in south carolina. >> maybe he would run the map with super tuesday. >> and to repeat a quote that was in the "wall street journal" after south carolina, i want a leader, not a preacher. so people don't vote, don't necessarily vote -- >> who said that? the "wall street journal"? >> it was a quote in the journal. i don't want a preacher running the country, i want a leader. somebody who voted for donald trump. >> got it. did you just assume they had that kind of accent? >> they were from the south so they sounded kind of like that. maybe worse. >> these are your people. >> he's dressed like a salesman. >> very good. i was going to bring a pocket watch tonight. >> you look at these numbers, it's interesting as we get -- wait to -- what's going to be happening next week with some of these other states, later on in michigan, how it's making march 15th such a do or die moment. >> it's huge.

>> it is huge. you got florida, 99delegates, ohio, 66, missouri, 52, north carolina, 72. illinois, 69. that could be it right there. >> if trump wins florida and ohio, he only needs to get half of the delegates thereafter. in those voting contests. there are a number of winner take all states after that. he could easily, easily get to that number. >> kasich really is gunning -- >> right. win tear all states, arizona, delaware, montana, nebraska, new jersey and south dakota. march to june. >> on tuesday this week we have idaho, michigan, it might be an outlier. it's showing a complete collapse of donald trump's lead. but again, it could just be an outlier event. then of course, mississippi. if you had something telegraphed

on that day in michigan that shows kasich might be gaining strength, as he's been stating in interviews with us, this is now coming to his advantage. >> maybe. that would help him in ohio theoretically going into his home state to say at least maybe he has a realistic shot at something. you have to look and say trump is a 70/30 favorite at least to be the nominee, maybe more than that? because there are not that many paths. >> what do you think about just making him slog it out state by state, every single delegate is going to add up but it seems like -- >> he might not have to. if he wins florida and ohio. >> that's a very good point. when i talked to mitt romney about this, i said you're not talking about taking delegates if he's over the 1237, he said no, no, no. he won't get there. we have to have it with delegates on the first ballot but if you don't have the 1237

everything changes. is it your sense from this that if donald trump were over 1237 going to the convention, the establishment for want of a better term would do everything in its power to mess that up? >> i just see a lot of quotes that are like okay, every single state, they just want it to be painful for him he rightly or wrongly. >> that's interesting. >> but what's painful for donald trump is pawnfinful for the republican party. a party that is already fractured is there in icu and maybe forever. i don't know, this is already damaging enough. if he gets to 1237, you got to let it go. >> i like what you said about the fact it's not just independents. for a long time, i remember "the washington post" did an op-ed saying it's the independents. they said we stand corrected. >> trump has won with republicans, even in the states where he's won with the independents, south carolina and others, in the exit polls he has

done well with republicans also. in those states where he's won. he struggled in caucus states. >> you have seen that, he potentially could win the kentucky caucus. right now -- >> right. we are not in position to state that. it could explain why there's a wait. we are not committing and saying donald trump has won kentucky. it's sure looking increasingly th him that state. we are told donald trump is holding off on making an announcement until he knows for sure he's got that state. so we could be waiting awhile for that. if he does, if he gets it, then it's an even steven night for him. >> right. it's also a republican night. because only republicans could vote in these contests. >> he could go back at ted cruz and say hey, republican only events, it's all you. >> especially with louisiana. i think the 2012 exit polling showed that louisiana, 49% of the people who voted there said they were very conservative.

that's a very conservative state. there's a high number of white evangelical voters in louisiana. that's a state that again, we said earlier if we were having the conversation, like three or four months ago, we would have said this is a cruz state. same about south carolina. cruz has done well in certain places, well in caucuses where he had to organize and give him credit, his data, all that stuff, he has smart political people that support him that are really just political animals that support him. >> ground game, you mean. >> he's good at that. still, trump has done well in these states by rights maybe he shouldn't have done as well in south carolina and certainly louisiana. >> know what's remarkable? we touched on it. how wrong the media has been. we had concluded, not us here, by the way, that all right, it's donald trump's race to lose, it's going to be a crowded contest, it's marco rubio, ted

cruz, yeah. >> i think it was in the frame of endorsements, right? >> surely anyone, would the party really back him up. here, ted cruz is plugging away. >> one statistician was ten points per governor endorsement, one point for congressmen. as it turns out, nobody gives a hoot. >> it's going to be one of those elections where all that stuff may hold up every other year. >> this is not the year. >> there's a reason something is 80% or 90%. this is the other election. >> you know, say donald trump goes i might not get to this, i might not do that, ted cruz is saying no way i can see myself getting to that. how do they reposition in the eyes of the voter? if you're donald trump do you want to look more presidential? do you want people you have been

ticking off, you want to avoid ticking off? if you're ted cruz, it looks like you are not winning over women or whatever? what do they do now in this next phase? >> you mean if they don't get -- >> are you suggesting they team up? >> no, no. i'm suggesting they know the way it's going now, neither will get to 1237. >> rubio takes the high road for so long, he finally hit back, had a bunch of schoolyard dust-up insults, then everybody turned against him and said oh, we can only apparently take one candidate like that. >> to that point, when marco rubio came out with the jokes, i thought that's not his authentic self. that's not who he has been. do people believe that's who he is. the answer seems to be no. all cruz and trump can be is their authentic selves. >> what about saying maybe dr. carson gets a vp nod earlier than normal? >> someone's got to jar something. >> that doesn't fit with trump's

profile of wanting a person in government to be the vp. >> well, in washington government. his big thing is established politician. it seemed clear not a washington one. that's why -- christie's name came up. >> it would never be chris christie. >> not after the hostage taking. >> before that it might have been. >> i think it might be an african-american. >> i'm sorry. i want to review where we stand. we are waiting about getting official results out of kentucky. that is what is presumably holding up this contest. as you can see, the pickups here, you have kansas going to ted cruz. very comfortably. louisiana going to donald trump very comfortably. in maine, we a