libertarian politicians will get out of our way. that's our show for tonight. good night until next time and. for after the show show.me and. more penguins. the fight for the white house heading west. with arizona ground zero for the illegal immigration battle holdg t mos delates i th esdas batt. hi everybody, i'm in for brenda butter in. hilly clintonnd bernie sanders doubling down on promising they'd make more illegals legal if they become president of these united states. but some here say that'll just keep wages lower in these united states. are they right? are wrong? the bulls and bears this jonas, susie welch, and others, welcome to everybody. wages lower, longer, right?

>> yeah, of course it will. you know, forget what is right or wrong here, simple economic category and this has precedence, 1986, ronald reagan give amnesty to three million illegal. you saw an influx, record amount in the following years coming across the border. i grew up on a ranch. i grew up working on a ranch in sweet water, texas, with illegals. but one of the reasons the ranchers could make money is they're able to pay such a low wage for the illegals. you add more illegals to that equation, it's just a matter of economics that you're going to keep wages artificially low for a very long time. >> and gary b., this is an environment where for seven years, wage growth has been incredibly sluggish in this country, even though the economy, somewhat, recovered from a recession. >> i agree. and look, john points out some good anecdotal evidence, but the fact of the matter is,

immigration's effect on wages and plan has been studied since immigrants have been coming to the country. you can find some studies where wages go up 2%, some studies where wages come down 2%. if you took the consensus of all the studies, the net affect of immigrants is zero. the same with unemployment rates. if you looked at unemployment amongst immigrants and unemployment amongst native americans, it almost goes in lock step. you'd think just the opposite. immigrants went up, unemployments of native americans went down. part of the reason, and everyone forgets is when immigrants come in the country, they come in as consumers. so they're spending more money increasing maybe not the prosperity of john's ranchers, but the prosperity in other industries, food services, retail, things like that. so the net affect is almost zero. >> but susie, if you listen to hillary clinton and bernie sanders, you're talking about a major step toward open borders. and illegal immigrants means one

thing, hundreds of billions of dollars in additional costs, in addition to keeping wages low. additional costs like educating their children, health care, yo affect of zero and $400 billion, there is a cost, bigger issues against me, one is that do we have a country with borders that mean anything andimpacts. but these issues seem bigger to me, and i think we need to think about those before we go to the economic impact. >> jonas, to quote a dear,

beloved buddy, wayne rogers, when you start a sentence with the word illegal, you don't need to finish that sentence. >> okay. i'm not going to disagree with the illegal legal part of it, a lot are working now, i don't know if making them legal is going to affect stuff, but these politicians, these candidates i should say, have pandered themselves into the most ridiculous flip-flop. if you own a business, to gary's point, you want more customers and more labor. that's what you want. lower the wages and raise the amount of customers, when you're in labor, you want less labor, less competition, that's the whole point of unions and what democrats typically want. right now we want democrats saying they want more immigration and you have republicans saying we need less. that is completely the opposite of what businesses want and what labor wants, it's totally flip-flopped. >> if these illegal immigrants drive down wages for the very people that hillary and bernie want to vote for them, it doesn't make any sense. >> well, i think what they're trying to do, to dock a program

that president obama brought is they're trying to legalize, take these people out of the shadows. they still contribute $11.8 billion in u.s. taxes. state and local per year. you've got the possible by taking them out of the shadows, that's $230 billion a year. that's crazy. it's a crazy a. money that'll gol into our economy. you know, 29,000 jobs a year. there's a huge economic impact by taking the people out of the shadows. we're going to talk about border problems? we have deported more people under president obama than any other president in history. we don't have an influx of illegal immigrants anymore. it's actually negative, and more people going back to mexico playing past the dominican republican to hahn dors right now because of the restrictions that have been set up at the border. ooimz from arizona, i've seen it, we have built an economy around protecting the border rather than around the shadows of imgrants. >> the unemployment rate is higher than the national average. and i'll point to this, deportations have plunged in the second term of president obama.

and you have a less than 1% chance if you're an illegal immigrant in this country of getting deported. they're saying and hillary and bernie want more. >> yeah, they do. and look, for the last 30 years since ronald reagan, we're going too to deal wl those illegally and we're going to security the board per. we have not. contrary to what he says, but one thing, shadow population out there. for the first time, we have an immigrant population, unlike the uk, the irish, and continental europe that have come to this country that are have an allegiance somewhere else. not to america. and we cannot deport 11 million illegals. we've got to secure the border within and we have to figure out what to do with the illegals in our country and you're right, bring them out of the shadows, that's a huge economic boost. >> and susie, isn't the reason that somebody like donald trump is so popular? because he'scommunities with imd

yes, i think that donald stuff is raising all of those issues with his political incorrectness and touching accord, for sure. >> gary. >> well, there's really two issues, susie's on the one side talking about the illegality. that's a separate argument though. we're talking now about the economic impact and all the data and impact is zero. it might even be positive, as far as the deportation, the real reason immigrants are going back to mexico and the dominican vbl because our economy here stinks. they have better opportunities

back there. i place that squarely on president obama. >> jenna. >> the constitutional side, the whole border thing, that's a different argument. if you do pro business policy which means more labor available to business and more consumers is generally going to lead to a better economy. may not lead to higher wages. artificially limiting the amount of labor will lead to higher wages. if you're in competition for a job with immigrants, one way or the other, you don't want them here. if you hire people for a living and sell stuff to people, then you would want more immigration. >> i can tell you this about arizona, naomi, arizona hadn't voted for a democrat in a presidential election in 20 some odd years db. >> verp close in '08. >> with mccain. >> but again, it's because of the problem of illegal immigration in that state and across this country. >> more independents and republicans and democrats in arizona and progressive leading. keep in mind, republican controlled legislation. they set the budget.

we used to have a democratic governor. i think the issue here is jonas has a point, this is about business. and what donald trump has been able to tap into is the reagan democrat. the democrat whose wages have been kept down. donald trump is not pro-increasing american wages. he's tapping into anger and he's blaming it on immigrants who are coming in from mexico, but are no longer coming in from mexico. he's playing the populous, not the big business guy, but a pop louis who doesn't want top increase american wages. it's a game for him, the reality is, he just wants to make money. and he doesn't care whose business, whose wages are down, americans or mexicans, he's going to keep those wages down. >> john layfield, final word to you, we have 11 million odd illegal immigrants in this country and wages that aren't growing. put that and that together and you get what? >> you get the biggest problem that we have facing america, borrowing terrorism when off huge part of our population that is not assimilated, and normally you're wrong. donald trump's appeal is the

rest of the guys are morons. >> that'll work. >> leave it at that. >> thank you so much. >> cavuto on business about 20 minutes from now, what have you got? >> hey, a new warning about the dangers of donald trump, not from the establishment, but from the economist. the publication saying that president trump would be a big threat as jihadist terrorists, really? and is hillary clinton and bernie sanders face off in arizona, are american tax payers facing massive tax hikes? find out. we'll see you soon. >> thanks, neil. we can't wait. but up here first, this major terror bust in brussels saying it should force apple to bust open this terrorist's phone in the u.s.

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four others also taken into custody. investigators dig through his loek electronic trail. this comes as the fbi and apple here are set to face off in

court over the san bernardino's focus. gary says apple needs to get on board, gary. >> absolutely, daigen. look, in my opinion we're fighting a modern day world war called world war 3 2.0 if you will. the fbi is trying to help the united states win that war at a minimum, be safe. apple is critical to that. you know, in world war ii, daigen, the government conscripted entire industries to help us win the war. i think apple can do its part to help us out. >> and this guy in europe, susie, was nabbed with electronic devices which are critical to following the, his trail, and potentially uncovering other terrorists and terror plots, right? >> right. well, look, true confession right up front. i see both sides of the debate and intellectually speaking, this is a war shack about how much you trust the government and sometimes i think i have nothing to hide, what do i care?

and then i think, if bernie sanders gets elected, the irs is going to find a reason to audit consequence whined about of giving equal liberty to terrorists. gary's right, wooesh at war with the terrorists and they do not deserve the priegts of good citizens. apple needs to help out. >> and they were helping out john layfield in multiple cases, some 70 odd cases and then they put up a roadblock and said, no more. >> and i think there's a reason, look, i don't trust the government with this information, but i am on the same side as all americans as we are against isis and against terror attacks. but to gary's point, declare war. there's a big difference in saying going after a person that is an alleged terrorist.

this one's easy, black and white. give him this phone, take it e of it. what happens when you go down the line, want slippery slope. i'm with apple on this. there's a month to break into this phone and fix the back door. who's going to pay for that, by the way, the terrorist in europe was caught because of an old gun shoot detective technique of a fingerprint of an apartment they raided. >> electronics are the most critical intelligence gathering tool, and i'll point to this, this phone, apple wants to make it it to everybody, apple and law enforcement, there's something called reasonable search and seizure in this country and they are putting up a roadblock and giving a. haven to terrorists and child molesters and criminals of all sorts. >> and i find telephone interesting because there's this culture in silicon valley, so on one hand, they don't to want answer to the government, you're there to protect us, we have a right to security in this country. strangely enough, we don't have

a right to privacy because, you know, you have the right to search and seizure, but what's going on with apple right now is that they're willing to sell information to companies, but they're not willing to give this information to the government. and you know, they're saying that if they open it up for the government, it's suddenly going to be open for hackers from other countries. you know, there has to be a way here, i think they're using games and that's why the president wants the south by southwest to recruit them and come to work for the government like they did in the 'how and world war ii. >> they're telling us stuff we don't understand. it's all garbage anyway, i'm not for a back door that the government will snoop at will, but you're talking about making a legitimate request to a company. let me tell you -- >> legitimate legal request. >> it is easy to make the case, yeah, they should do it because of terrorism. forget terrorism, every company in the world has to deal with government garbage. the tech industry are prima donnas. if you're an investment advisor,

you come by all this stuff, it's called you're in business. >> thank god. over just an hour from now, what do you have coming up. >> hi, the gop establishment waging a war, costly campaign to take down donald trump with ads like these, but, should they use the money to beat the democratic nominee in november? plus, what does a mob posz, rock and roll singer within founder. scientology and tv star have in common, some americans say they're all supreme court justice nominees. uh-oh. we'll see you at 11:30. >> we'll be watching for that for sure. up first, a lot of these candidates are not really making a big deal about our big debt. when you think about success,

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change the way you experience tv with x1 from xfinity. time's running out to tuesday's primaries and look what is running up the nation's debt. the debt nightmare getting lost in this nasty political season. and susie says we cannot wait medicaid and there's just too many voters who care about thos doesn't bring out the truth in candidates, we all know that. >> gary, what's it going to take, ab crisis when it's too

late and we can't fix it? >> absolutely. i'm afraid we're on the fast path to that crisis. we are third in the world in terms of debt to tax revenues. we're only -- we have 408% in that number. you know where we're behind, we're only behind greece and japan. my gosh. we're being compared with greece for crying out loud -- >> hey. >> you look at all major empires, decline, one of the reasons is debt, and we're on the road to decline. >> well, you guys know me or whistling past the graveyard, it's going to fall on you. >> as a greek, i take offense to that to start off. listen, we all know that presidential candidates, campaign and poetry, hopefully government, some don't, some do, the past four or five presidents, each presidents has had their own version of increasing the debt. whether it's increasing social security, growing medicare and medicaid or the defense budget. this is why a lot of republicans

are frustrated. the establishment hasn't responded to their needs, whether it's their income. >> i know this jonas that in about five years, the interest on the national debt will exceed what he spend on defense, that's dangerous. >> these program grow themselves at this point. you don't need to vote to increase them. the election year is about giving, and i will say, we saw a little bit of talk about not giving the tax cuts we candidate afford or spending we can't afford. kasich talks about it, he's not doing well. how about the guy on the republican side who has a one year out with the social security, boom, he's gone. we don't talk about cutting these programs and you want to get elected. >> but john layfield, it is the most, the most critical economic issue facing this country, isn't it? >> sure it is. and poetry, i've never heard more banter in my entire life. it's like they're running for sixth grade student council. it's unbelievable. we'll be about $30 trillion in debt. that's not worst case, that's based upon the democrats and republicans budget.

that is what we are on track for. that is on average interest rate a trillion and a half dollars a year. we will spend on interest alone, put that the into our country. th john, and thanks to susie for joining us. coming up, how self-driving car [engines revving] you can't have a hero, if you don't have a villain. the world needs villains [tires screeching] and villains need cars. ♪ the market.redict but through good times and bad... ...at t. rowe price... ...we've helped our investors stay confident for over 75 years. call us or your advisor. t. rowe price. invest with confidence.

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>> john. >> facebook and twitter won't last, the way to play is cellular broad band, verizon. >> self-driving cars and one thing in common, tires. around in a year. >> oh, cavuto now. ahead of tuesday's next big primaries, did donald trump just get a big and unexpected move from the unlikeliest of sources. hi everyone, no less than the economist, the economist just ranking a donald trump presidency as one of the top threats to the world. terry willis says the republican front runner owes the magazine. also joining us, charles payne. charlie, along with ben stein and adam. daigen, as you just saw, hosting on bulls and bears. what do you think of this? >> the people who love donald will love