[cheers and applause] americantransplantfoundation.org . i got in. see you tomorrow. >> very nice. listen to this, before sending your check to the irs. americans will spend more on taxes this year than food, clothes, and housing combined. and someone here says the candidates better listen to this, too, because this is why voters in both parties are fed up. hi everybody. i'm dagen mcdowell. this is "bulls and bears." welcome everybody. john, time for candidates to be fighting for tax reform rather than fighting with each other. >> oh, yes. this banter between these guys

is just offensive. we're trying to pick the leprechaun, the tallest out of the group. they want to talk about each other's spouse, who is getting money from who. nobody is talking about policy, the reason we had 70,000 plus pages in the irs and the effective tax rate has stayed basically the same since the 1950s. look, we take in about 19% of gdp per annum, despite the fluctuation of tax increases and tax decreases and the reason is because the wealthy are getting benefits from politicians and the burden is falling on the middle class. nothing has changed and these politicians are just trying to get elected. i don't think any of them even care about policy going forward. they just want to be in the white house. >> suzy, it's time to start fighting for the folks and for the people who need an easier tax system. >> we need an easier tax system. we need a system that people can understand. right now, you couldn't find a single person who could explain our tax system.

i say we need to have a really big food fight about this. we need to have a big national argument about it, because the tax code of the united states, which must be reforms and hasn't been reformed in a really long time is really just a reflection of american values, right? tax code in any country, france, mexico, it is a reflection of what the country, what it values, how big government should be, who should be taxed, who are the heroes, who are the villains. now, right now we've got a political election that proves to me one thing, which is that there's no more two parties in the united states. there's four parties, the way left, there's the sort of left. there's the sort of right and the way right. and so it's going to be pretty hard to find consensus on what our tax code should be, but let's have the fight. let's stop talking about all the dumb stuff that john mentioned and let's talk about the real stuff, the stuff that really matters because we can't continue the way we are. let's have that fight and let's have that discussion. >> this is a choice who spends your money better, you, do you

get to keep it and you spend it, or does the government do a better job at it? i think i know what you're going to say. >> yes and no. up until this point i think i agreed with everybody here which is a shocker, we made it three minutes in. for the middle class on a decline for the past 40 years. poverty is at an all-time high. this say problem when working class citizens working double the hours paying more in taxes and can't afford daily fwoods goods that means there's something wrong. the people paying taxes are the working class and the ceos getting tax benefits and sending their businesses overseas for tax benefits this is a major problem and part of the tax code that has been lobbied by and it is complicated, suzy, but it's been lobbied by companies who don't want to pay their fair share and want to put their burdens on the backs of the workers and still not give them enough hours soer this owe an government benefits. overall it's a system that's broken, the tax system, no one wants to pay their fair share and unfortunately people have to go on government assistance.

>> gary, the dirty little secret is bernie sanders wants to raise about two dozen different taxes and hit lower and middle income taxpayers with higher taxes. should the focus be reform, like a simpler tax code? >> i think dagen the real question, what should the real size of the government be? no politician, in my opinion, the size of the government should be much smaller than it is now but no politician especially on the left is going to say hey, elect me. i'm going to do less. no one is going to say that. although that's what they should do. the answer from the left is always we need more money. we need more money and to nomiki's point about the fairness, she always points out, not she but the left always points out the rich fat cats, these corporations aren't paying their fair share. she's right. they're paying more than their fair share. we've discussed this on this show many, many times, "the

rich" pay the bulk of the taxes in this country. it's the middle class and the poor that pay, if anything, a lot less. my question though is, if you ask the average person what are they getting for their taxes, they look around and they say i don't really know. we have a poverty rate as pointed out higher than since the war on poverty took off. we have a military budget that's eight times bigger than the next eight countries combined, and yet terrorism is springing up all over the world and we got an infrastructure despite the billions that we spend on transportation, that sort of stuff, that's falling apart. i can't figure out why the money we send to d.c. now has any effect at all. >> jonas, time starve the beast so to speak? >> okay, let's correct a few miscues. just because the average voter thinks they pay a lot of federal tax and doesn't know what they're getting doesn't mean that's necessarily so. this study includes all the

super wealthy people who pay so much more in tax than they eat and what their house costs, even their beach houses. that's why that figure is what it is. the average, the typical american working family spends way more on food, housing and the other thing than they pay in taxes. probably paying a single digit federal rate because of all the complexities and deductions and child credits in the tax code now. we have a hugely progressive tax code. it's more progressive now than under clinton. obama raised the high end higher and kept the low cuts that bush put in. you pay very little tax. let's forget that lie that politicians keep telling you, so you believe it. the other slight problem is at the top end it becomes tax avoidance and things inspect code that let you pay -- we're talking about a few thousand people, maybe 10,000 now that we look at the panama papers who are paying essentially no tax on some fraudulent income that's hidden and low tax rate on the capital gains. the vast majority of wealthy people who can't afford to set

up panama llcs they are paying the vast majority of the taxes. to say that's not a fair share is absurd. >> about 400 wealthiest americans are paying the highest average tax rate in the most recent year available than they have since the 1990s. but to that point, how do you fix the tax code so it's easier for people, so it's easier for the average person to prepare their taxes? >> you simplify. you throw it out and you start over. that's a flat tax, some type of consumption tax but you've got to start over. what we've done decade after decade is just add more and more to the tax code. that's why it's 70,000 plus pages. remember, look at the tax receipts. we are at record revenue right now, $3.2 trillion is what our federal government brings in. when president obama came in to office we brought in about $2.1 trillion. it's up 50%, despite the fact that the debt has gone from $10 trillion to over $19 trillion right now. so we're doubling our debt. we've got 50% more taxes and what are we getting out of this?

the infrastructure is dilapidated. the morons in congress, you give them $1 they're going to spend $1.50. until that stops reforming the tax code is just giving these guys more money. we're at the average right now of taxes coming in according to gdp. >> here's the one issue you aren't discussing. those are people and wealthy individuals. what about the corporations, mattel that paid zero in taxes last year and got billion in returns or cbs, the same sort of company, is going, they're receiving so many tax benefits and not paying. those are the ones that are here in america. let's talk about the ones that are moving overseas and taking the jobs away from people. >> they wouldn't be overseas -- >> they're moving, go ahead suzy. >> they're moving overseas because they are seeking better taxes. >> they don't want to pay any taxes. >> before you say this is because the fat cats want to make higher salaries that's not the case. they want to return, higher share returns to widows and

orphans along with people of average means. the corporations are shopping for lower taxes because we have a ridiculous tax code for corporations in the united states. so $2 trillion is overseas that shouldn't be, yet another reason why we have to reform the tax code because we're losing corporate taxes here because of a terrible tax code. >> gary b., i wanted to point out though we always forget about these incredibly regressive taxes that are hitting everybody in places like the highest sales tax in the country in chicago, a soda tax has been proposed in the city of philadelphia. it's that plus the ridiculous tax code at the federal level that we all need to tackle. >> exactly. dagen a larger question, throw in the lotteries that we now have nationally, and at the state level, which is basically a regressive tax also. look you throw that all in, it's because every government local, state, federal, is starved for money. they want more money. they want to become bigger and bigger and bigger. that's what politicians do.

that's their power. if they grow a bigger department, they have more success, so we need to rethink at some point you know, what is the role of government. otherwise i tell you what, we're going to go the way of greece easily. >> thank you, ladies and gentlemen. "cavuto on business" two minutes from now. what have you got? >> is donald trump trying to close the deal for the open convention? he's going on a hiring streak for sure but is he spending the money too late? plus they've shut businesses down but what happens when blacks lives matter protesters try to do the same with bill clinton? watch out. see you soon. >> thank you, neil. we can't wait. up here first bernie calling hillary a hip cite over pwall

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but i only had a salad. it was a buffalo chicken salad. salad. back to more of "bulls and bears." >> as hillary clinton and bernie sanders battle for delegates today in wyoming, bernie is stepping up attacks on hillary's ties to wall street in new york. >> are you qualified to be president of the united states when you're raising millions of dollars from wall street and entity whose greed, recklessness and illegal behavior helped destroy our economy? i will not leave here this morning and go to a wall street fund-raiser. >> bernie backtracking a bit on his unqualified comment but sticking to his guns on hillary's ties to wall street.

fwar gary, he says she's a hypocrite. is he right or wrong? >> well, of course he's right. i mean look, she demonizes wall street and then takes money from them. is that the definition of a hypocrite? absolutely. but look, if we said no hypocrites can run for any office in the country, we'd have no one in government. it's almost part of the resume. i suppose. i do want to get to one bigger issue this whole demonizing wall street especially things that bernie sanders said, people should step back and think my gosh, let's just say there was no wall street. we'd have no insurance. most people wouldn't be able to go to college because that's where loans come from. they wouldn't be able to own cars. they wouldn't be able to own homes. wall street isn't just a vital cog. it might be the vital cog in america's success. people should be lauding wall street and accepting money with open arms from them and defending them. >> jonas, these are demons that

hillary clinton certainly likes to break bread with or collect a check from. >> because she doesn't really think they're demons and in that sense she is a hypocrite. bernie keeps buckling on hillary attacks. he's already weak in the beginning. he wants to be her vice president i guess but the bottom line is she's right and if you're going to be a democrat, and you believe wall street almost destroyed the world which it didn't but let's pretend you believe that, at what point is taking hundreds of thousands of dollars from wall street to speak essentially a quid quo live. it's better for the economy anyway, pretend you believe it he's right. we dropped the e-mail thing too soon, that was bigger than he thought. it really was a sign she thinks she's above the law. bernie could be winning this if he wasn't acting like a vice president. >> suzy, if bernie wasn't a big old hypocrite himself. >> the hypocrite here is bernie sanders. i can barely talk about it, it

makes me so upset. look, bernie sanders is a guy called for companies to create high paid quality jobs and invest in communities. last week he calls out ge as destroying the fabric of america, okay? meanwhile ge has a factory in the little state of vermont that has 1,000 great high-paying jobs and invested $100 million in the little state of vermont and he is hating on ge. i mean, he's the hypocrite and it's hypocrisy, if it means you can't run for office he should drop out today. this is ludicrous. you have to peel me off the ceiling. >> i should point out you're married to the former chief of ge. >> that's true, but maybe that's why it struck me personally. all the ge employees who felt the exact same way who said wait a minute we're building xhunl communities, doing the american dream and we're destroying the fabric of america? out with bernie. >> it's not oh my gosh, wall

street and corporations are terrible. it's paying their fair share. when the executives took down the economy in 2008, got promoted, hang on this is true and what americans are frustrated by. >> what are the executives who took down the economy? i want to know that? >> when hillary clinton goes out and campaigns that she is going to regulate, have better regulations on wall street yet she's accepting bundlers on her campaign staff raised over $4.5 million for her, sneaky is adough super pacs channeling in hundreds of thousands of dollars. the problem with the democratic party is they're owned by big business. that's the difference between republicans and democrats. >> john layfield make sense of this. >> the demagoguery bernie sanders goes through and finds out he has no substance when he can't answer the question how would you break up the big banks? he talks about anti-trust, nothing to do with solvency or too big to fail. like the absend-minded professor

you worry will show up in his bath robe the first day of school. >> we need to get both of them hypocrites t-shirts. thank you. eric, what do you guys have coming up? >> dagen, president obama mocking donald trump saying if mexico doesn't pay for the wall he'd freeze the mexican immigrants and send them back to their country. two gap ads may be exposing common sense and people looking to be offended. cashing in, we'll see you the 11:30. >> thanks, eric, we'll be watching. up here first a new push for up here first a new push for child care f

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universal child care in america? a group of economists in d.c. saying it should be a human right in america. the cost, about $90 billion bucks per year. suzy, can we afford this? >> let's let the government take care of our youngest children, our precious children because they did so well taking care of another precious part of our population, the veterans. even the absurdity of that aside this is like putting an expensive band-aid on a broken leg. the problem is not the cost of day care which is terrible, it's the fact there aren't high paying jobs for the women. if you're a clerk at macy's or work at mcdonald's you can't afford to payday care. instead of making day care run by the government, i horrifying thought, create better high paying jobs for women so they can pay for good day care where they choose and be given by

people they choose. >> gary b.? >> it's not a $90 billion solution as people say. it's more likely to be close to a $1 trillion solution. medicare is supposed to be in 1990 cost $12 billion. it was $98 billion. medicaid supposed to be $1 billion in 1992. it was $17 billion. $90 billion? that's a joke, probably closer to $1 trillion before it's all said and done and another program we can't afford. >> child care for all it's called the parents. >> if were as simple as that. two-parent house, one parent not making the family's economy better if it's single parent household, how does that person pay $33,000 a year for child care? and they've enacted early childhood development in new york city and already made quite a significant difference because listen, it's not affordable and not only that -- >> that's the whole point, jonas, not affordable for the

taxpayer. >> it's not affordable. look, if we can make revenue neutral it might make sense. we spend more money on the last few years of life by taxpayers than the first few years. doesn't make any sense if you stop and think about it. as far as the tax code you could take away the tax credit for having kids and give it to companies, no politicians will say that to put more child care in the workplace so they have incentive to do it. >> stop being so rational. john layfield, final word to you. >> like student council in middle school. free pizza. how are you going to pay for it? i don't know, get the rich kids to pay for it. the only thing bipartisan in d.c. is they still earn money to get reelected >> thank you for being here. coming up for golf pros, the masters is all about who wins the green jacket. for our stock p

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at join-self-employed-dot-com. predictions, gary b., go. >> facebook is the new apple. i think the stock doubles in the next two years. >> jonas, you like? >> unfriend that from your portfol portfolio. >> john, your prediction? >> good old texas boy, i think jordan spieth wins back-to-back master, under armour is his brand i own t up 20% on the year. >> gary b. you trying on? >> he was collapsing on friday, i think jonas and spieth and the stock are wrong. >> yo nas? >> everybody is going up to panama to set up shell companies

and avoid taxes. copa ironically cpa is the ticker symbol. >> stop him from singing, please, john. >> i own delta, lt bet per. >> thank you for joining us. the cost of freedom continues right now. all right, for get fired. is donald trump now saying you're hired? hi everyone, i'm neil cavuto back just in time before charles dane takes credit for this show. meanwhile, i don't like him. little too good for my -- >> lunatics running the insane asylum. >> thank you very much. not on my watch. anyway, donald trump may be learning and has to spend some to get some, signing up seasoned political operatives ahead of what could be an ugly and nasty contested attention. something charlie gasparino says he should have been doing all