above 1100, people are going to say that's close enough. appreciate it. the plot always thickens. a lot more for you on this, every single day there is something new. we've got lou dobbs and he's got a great guest with him. donald trump's campaign convention manager, paul manafort next. lou: good evening, everybody, i'm lou dobbs. donald trump appears ready to pivot to a more presidential demeanor and to focus on the general election and the democrats presumptive nominee. the republican front-runner telling a town hall meeting today he's going act so presidential that, quote, you will be so bored, end quote. and trump is so committed to making that pivot, that change, he's now practicing delivering at least some of his speeches with the help of teleprompters, a tool that president obama of course relies on constantly, but a tool that trump has used as far as i know, only once

over the past ten months. the changing trump comes as he builds out his campaign team, bringing on more experienced campaign leaders and among them, trump convention manager paul manafort. manafort will be our guest from the site of the rnc spring meeting, hollywood, florida. where republican national committee officials have been wrangling whether to change rules this trump says are rigged against him. >> politics is a very dirty, dirty dishonest business, folks, and i've never seen anything like it. and we're running now for office, and it's a rigged deal. this whole thing with delegates is rigged. it's rigged. where i win louisiana and i don't get as many delegates as some guy that lost? lou: trump himself is set to hold a rally this hour in harrisburg, pennsylvania. we'll be bringing that to you live when he takes the stage,

and i'll discuss trump's feud with the rnc with republican campaign attorney charlie spies, and joining us steve forbes. our top story tonight, donald trump refusing to retreat from a discussion on wedge issues. the republican front-runner asserting views on abortion and transgender bathrooms. as a result, ted cruz trying to attack trump for not being an ideological purist. carl cameron with our report. >> reporter: donald trump's differences with social conservatives are on full display over a key abortion provision in the republican party platform. without hesitating today, trump, pro-choice until a few years ago said he would change the plank opposing abortions including cases of rape, incest or the life of the mother. >> absolutely. >> reporter: john kasich support the exceptions while ted cruz supports the platform.

abortion is a hot-button issue in both parties, trump's support could open a new rift on the right. the antiabortion group march for life issued a statementas an erosion of principle, quote -- trump also broke ranks with social conservatives who support a controversial statute in north carolina, requiring transgender people to use rest rooms for the gender on birth certificates. >> it's a big novcreate new bathrooms. problem with that is for transgender. i think that would be discriminatory in a certain way. it would be unbelievably expensive for businesses and the country. leave it the way it is. >> reporter: cruz warned a rally in maryland that trump will compromise socially conservative values. >> he thought men should be able to go into the girl's bathroom if they want to. grown, adult men, strangers, should not be alone in a

bathroom with little girls. >> reporter: as solicitor general for texas cruz noted on the glen beck radio show. >> when you deal with people who are repulsive, perverts and criminals, there are bad people in the world and shouldn't be facilitating putting little girls alone in a bathroom with grown, adult men. that is a bad, bad, bad idea. >> reporter: trump says he'll unify the right. the one in his campaign between the new regime of experienced washington insiders anthe original band of loyalists is raging over plans for the candidate to use teleprompters in upcoming speeches. the new team wanted trump to use the teleprompter for victory speech in new york two nights ago, and it was shot down by the old guard saying it's contrary to his image. next foreign policy speech is next wednesday. no word whether he'll use one

or not. lou: something exciting to think about, the prospect whether he'll be using teleprompters or not. thanks, carl cameron reporting. republican national committee officials meeting in florida, amid allegation the primary process is rigged, making those allegations, those charges, donald trump. party big shots essentially raising the white flag of surrender, deciding that changing rules at this point in the game would only drive charges that the rnc is playing favorites. fox news chief washington correspondent james rosen in hollywood, florida with our report. ♪ reporter: for rnc chair reince priebus, an accomplished pianist, short recital for reporters offered a brief respite for a spring meeting fraught with tension. >> i'm running the committee, and i don't believe that we're going to have any rules changes coming out of the meeting this week. >> reporter: and so it was that the rnc rules committee meeting

when solomon yew motioned to proceed under roberts rules of order rather than house rules which if enacted would strengthen the delegates over convention chair paul ryan. >> the nays have it, the motions defeated. >> reporter: all delegates heard from top trump aides paul manafort and rick reilly. manafort told fox news his message is open to the delegates' concerns and where rhetoric like this is concerned -- >> the rnc, the republican national committee, they should be ashamed of themselves for allowing this kind of crap to happen. i can tell you that. >> reporter: trump simply feels the rnc should lead and change the process, not that officers or delegates themselves are corrupt. one state party chairman said he and his colleagues are not bothered by such talk from trump. >> chairman priebus was very, very clear a lot of this is posturing and rhetoric, i believe that's what it is. >> reporter: host governor rick scott, a trump supporter gently

chided the candidates. >> we know how tall the boots are. we know the size of their hand. [laughter] >> we know who's got the best hair. mine's easier. [laughter] >> we know who's got the most beautiful wife. >> reporter: and in that closed-door session between trump adviser paul manafort and top republican leaders, rnc officials and delegates, one attendee told us in the session manafort said going forward the front-runner would run a traditional campaign including fund-raising for the rnc. however, the moment that session ended and manafort spoke with reporters he was asked if that's what he promised and manafort said donald trump will run a donald trump-type campaign. lou? lou: of that i believe, we can be assured, no matter what happens. thanks for being with us. james rosen reporting. on the democratic side, hillary clinton aides telling

the "boston globe" they are working to narrow a list of vice presidential candidates and, quote, there is no question a woman will be on the list. clinton's increasing competence may stem from a recent monmouth university poll which she held tos a 13-point lead over bernie sanders in the state of maryland and they vote next tuesday in maryland. pennsylvania also votes the same day. a franklin and marshall poll out of pennsylvania shows clinton with a 27-point lead, but sanders believes clinton is ahead of herself. at a rally earlier today, the vermont senator explained away his defeat in new york. he blamed the closed primary system. >> we just had a democratic primary in new york state the other day. [booing] . >> i share the sentiments, but -- [laughter] >> here's the point, i don't mind losing but three million people in new york state.

three million people who registered as independents did not have the right to participate in the democratic or republican primary. [booing] . >> that really is not democracy. lou: it does explain why they call it a republican primary and a democratic primary. sanders spent $5.6 million in new york, twice the amount clinton spent. a busy day for president obama who wrapped up a trip to saudi arabia and is now in london. president obama earlier today attended a summit of six gulf nations in riyadh. talks focused on middle east conflicts, the war in syria, the war against the islamic state and deterring iranian aggression. in the meetings, mr. obama said he had, quote, serious concerns about iran's behavior. this from the man who struck the nuclear deal that has been roundly, roundly derided.

but there are also reports president obama sent two letters to iranian leaders seeking the opportunity to meet with supreme leader khamenei and president rohani. the administration issued a nondenial denial about that. a senior obama administration official told fox news, quote, there are certainly no plans for an in-person visit, end quote. not exactly per tang. we're coming right back much more, a lot to cover tonight, stay with us. trump's delegate manager says the republican race is essentially over. >> there's not going to be a second ballot. not an issue. >> and you're convinceed? >> we have several weeks to get to 1237 by early june. lou: can trump overcome rigged primary rules and secure the nomination? we take it up with paul manafort, here next. and batter up! something is about to sweep these bases and leave all the

players in shock. you don't want to miss this incredible video of one of nature's curveballs. that's coming up next right after these messages. stay with us. we'll be right back.

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pennsylvania. you're looking at live pictures of the venue there. this, just ahead of tuesday's primary. he's at the pennsylvania farm show complex and expo center, which is a huge facility in harrisburg. there are about 4,000 people, we're told, in attendance. several thousand other people are lined up outside. trump should, we're told, be coming on stage shortly and we'll go there live when he does. donald trump maintaining a strong lead, by the way, in pennsylvania. the newest franklin and marshall college poll shows trump on top 40% support. that's 14 points ahead of ted cruz, and two congressmen from pennsylvania, lou barleta and tom marino, they are, in fact, leading the effort to line up trump supporters to be elected as delegates. 54 of the state's 71 delegates

will be unbound, not pledged to support any -- anyone that emerges from the primary tuesday. it's quite a system, and just part of what has been an adventure in this primary season. joining us now is the top trump campaign official. he's the convention manager, strategist, paul manafort. paul, a veteran republican strategist he's worked with presidents ford, reagan, bush, and joining us from hollywood, florida, the site of the rnc spring meeting. great to have you on the show, and i know that and you rick wiley talked to the rnc members. do you feel you were successful in conveying the message us that wanted? >> well, donald trump thought it was important because he has not -- could not attend this week, due to the fact he's out there campaigning in the primaries, that the campaign have a presence here to answer

any questions the rnc members have, and to also let them know that as far as donald trump is concerned, you know, as he becomes the presumptive nominee of the party, he's looking to work with the rnc and work with the other leaders of the state parties to put together the framework for what will be a united republican effort in the fall. lou: and paul, working with the rnc, so much public, what would we say acrimony between the rnc, the man that will be leading the convention, paul ryan, and donald trump, of course, being extremely critical of the primary, primary system, at least many of the primaries in this country, is that being smoothed over, is that process under way? is there a coming together, if you will, between donald trump and the rnc? >> i believe there is a coming together, yes, and really a lot of the acrimony, as you call

it, a lot of misunderstanding. donald trump always understood as the nominee of the republican party he'd be working with republican national committee. the senatorial campaign committee. the congressional campaign committee. the rga and republican institutions, as leader of the party his goal is not only to elect himself but ensure a republican majority in the congress and elect governors and members in and other downstream members as well. lou: paul, in no way i want to create discomfort for you, but your boss is talking on the screen with you as we are listening, making his introductory remarks. we're going live to him in harrisburg in just a minute, but i want to turn to it sounded as though there was a pledge of deeper cooperation certainly than there's been, that may not be a terrific amount, but a pledge of a

traditional relationship between the nominee and the rnc, including fund-raising, organization, campaigning for candidates. is that a fair statement? >> donald trump's been talking to the chairman of the party over the course of the last few weeks and had very good phone calls as recently as yesterday, and made it clear he's looking forward to work with them to pull the party together, and as far as he's concerned he becomes the presumptive nominee, he understands that the chairman of the party has a responsibility, really, to work, to help bring the unity as well together with trump, and so this is the process, it's an ongoing process, we're getting closer to the point where he will be the presumptive nominee and then the nominee. we believe he will not -- there will not be a contested convention in cleveland, and don't want to wait until cleveland to put together the apparatus necessary to run a united republican operation in the fall. lou: and meanwhile, you've got

two candidates out there -- governor kasich with 200 delegates, and about 300 points behind your delegate is, of course, ted cruz. ted cruz, if anything, has raised the intensity of his attacks on donald trump. your thoughts about that, and the appropriate response as even the candidate is talking about being more presidential in the face of such attacks? >> well, he's raising the level of attack because he's losing, and he knows he's losing, and trying to change the narrative but he's failing. we had a great day in new york last tuesday. we'll have another great day in tuesday in the northeast states where we expect to do very well in pennsylvania, in rhode island, in delaware, in maryland, in connecticut. and so cruz is trying to distract from what's going on

by making a lot of noise. the reality is the noise isn't going to affect the increased difference in the vote count between trump and cruz both on total votes received and delegates. we'll have another good day on tuesday, closer to the magic number. lou: you are confident you can hit something -- 1237, the numbers have been reported a little higher than that because of internal memoranda, but that you can hit 1237, say, by june 7th? >> we think it's critical for the republican party to come together before july. if we are fighting in july, if the convention is fractured in july, chances of winning in november are dramatically impacted. from our standpoint, we're the only one that can be nominated on the first ballot and think that the voters in the republican party are indicate wearing -- indicating where they want to be.

have you 66% saying he should be the nominee. that's finished. we know who's going to finish first in both of the categories. now is the time to start the healing process with the leadership of the process. now is the time for the trump organization and mr. trump told us this to begin reaching out to republican groups to bring together all of the elements of the campaign structures so we can merge the presidential campaign with the committee campaigns. lou: and those efforts are going to intensify in the days ahead? >> absolutely. lou: all right. paul manafort, thanks for taking the time, i know you had a busy day. >> thank you very much. lou: fbi director james comey revealing today that the fbi paid more than a million dollars to unlock the telephone used by one of the san bernardino terrorists. that was paid to a nongovernmental third party. that's the description. a nongovernmental third party.

fbi director comey says it was a lot of money, but the results made it worth it. and be sure to vote in tonight's poll -- we want to very quickly, i want to go to results that you see there. let's do that first. the results of last night's poll, 94% of you say it is time to start referring to donald trump as the republican party's presumptive nominee. i told you we'd follow your direction based on this poll, highly scientific as it is, and so we will do so on this broadcast, from here on. follow me on -- links to everything at loudobbs.com. i want to go to harrisburg and check in with donald trump. there he is.

let's listen in for a while. >> so politicians allowed all of these jobs essentially to be shipped overseas. it's like a -- if you look and i'm driving in from the airport and you look at the empty buildings and the empty factories and places that held unbelievable people, including yourself in many cases and your relatives and they're gone, looking not so good. we're going to straighten it out, folks. as stephen told you, cruz and kasich -- by the way, how about cruz? lyin' ted. you're right. lyin' ted. he's a liar. how about this. lou: oops, we apparently have had a bit of a pause in the pivot to more presidential -- i promise not to give you a commentary, let's listen in as he speaks.

let's listen in. >> he holds it high, and then he lies, he lies, but he puts it down and he lies. here's the story. he loves tpp, trans-pacific partnership. nafta, nafta had a huge negative impact on this area and all over the country, but nafta, you look at new england, what happens in new england? you look at upstate new york where i just won, and i won it because they know that i'm bringing back the jobs. i'll be bringing back the jobs. mexico, china, japan, vietnam, india -- any country you name, throw up any name, they're taking advantage -- lou: we're going to have to take a hard break right here. we'll be going back to harrisburg and donald trump. trump focusing, as you can tell, strongly and returning to

his strong messages about jobs and the creation of those jobs and the impact of so-called free trade agreements that have been very costly indeed. nothing free about them at all for the middle class in this country. up next, much more on the trump campaign.

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. lou: a few thoughts now on donald trump's presidential pivot. trump telling the "wall street journal" that both he and the campaign are now evolving, adding quote i'm not going to blow it. and the presumptive nominee backing up his words with actions, shaking up his campaign staff. next week his campaign announced trump will deliver a foreign policy speech in washington where, a key focus will be his view of the ties between our economy and his national security policies. trump will be giving additional policy speeches of course and at least one of them will focus on jobs. we're also told trump will use

a teleprompter which he first used during an address to aipac last month, and the trump campaign is about to hire a speechwriter. bestill my heart. the donald assuring his supporters he's still the same candidate, which is true, but now beginning to pivot to his new rolesa the republican party's presumptive presidential nominee. a little more than ten months after he first threw his hat in the ring. now our quotation of the evening, this one fits where trump finds himself tonight. after ten months of campaigning, moving toward his goal in cleveland. david brinkley said this -- trump has certainly a lot of material now to build with. we'll be right back. stay with us. donald trump bringing in millions of new republicans in

the primary elections. >> i'm winning by millions of votes. millions of people have signed onto vote for trump. lou: and will trump's historic appeal translate to millions of new republican votes in november? we take that up with forbes media chairman, editor in chief, steve forbes, he joins me next. and this snowboarder is about to ride the rails, make that rail, into the record books. we'll show you how he does it in the video right after these short messages. stay with us. we'll be right back. it's perceptive enough to detect other vehicles on the road. it's been shaken and pummeled. it's innovative enough to brake by itself, park itself and help you steer. it's been in the rain... and dragged through the mud. the 2016 gle. it's where brains meet brawn. lease the gle350 for $599 a month at your local mercedes-benz dealer.

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. lou: we want to go very quickly back to harrisburg, pennsylvania, where donald trump is, well, speaking before a sizable rally there in harrisburg. let's hear what he's focusing on right now. >> all right. so we shouldn't have been in, we were in, we have to finish the job. we have finish. we should never, ever have been. you know saddam hussein was a bad guy, right? if you look at gadhafi, he was a bad guy. but they had one thing in common, and one thing they were really, really good at. number one they were not politically correct. do we all agree? they were great at killing terrorists. they were great. we are not good at killing terrorists. we catch somebody who's a terrorist and it's 25 years before the trial starts. they killed terrorists. and we would have been better off --

lou: donald trump, addressing as he will next week in an extensive policy speech. foreign policy, sharing his views, as we know that he was opposed to the war in iraq. it's going to be quite an interesting speech next week, and just to bring you up to date on the -- about 7,000 people, at least 4,000 in the venue there and 3,000 people outside. joining me now, forbes media chairman and the editor in chief, steve forbes. great to have you with us. >> good to be with you. lou: i find it interesting. he's talking about saddam hussein. he's talking about moammar gadhafi. he did not mention hosni mubarak, but he should and could. the fact is we have destabilized the middle east through our policies, both some that are controversial to this

day, some people will argue about for decades. your thoughts? >> well, start with iraq. once we removed saddam hussein and finally after three years changed our strategy and finally got peace in that country, it was a huge mistake of barack obama to withdraw the troops. you have to have a force to keep that place from blowing up. lou: mubarak? >> the big one. gadhafi i don't care what happened to him. mubarak was egypt, most important arab country in that part of the world. to not stick by him, obama can say america, america. >> it was a capricious, unnecessary act on the part of the u.s. government. libya, the same, again -- >> if you start something, you better know what you're going to do with it. there was no follow through. lou: i think there's a fair criticism here that the united

states foreign policy elites, by the way, i get a kick out of many of the reports that the foreign policy elites may not work for a president donald trump, and all i can think when i heard that is thank god america has a chance, if we can get the idiots out of the state department. >> don't get too optimistic. if he becomes president, they will be there. lou: just begging him for a job. that's unfortunate. he is an intrepid speaker, galvanizing, bringing in millions of people. what do you think of the idea of him going presidential? as we heard earlier when he reverted to lyin' ted cruz, he's not there yet. or should he be? >> no. but one thing to throw out your zingers, he's not going to stop. that he's got to show he can take this to the next level, show through what are his

thoughts on nato? what are the implications? lou: do you think there shouldn't be reform of nato, burden sharing on a much higher degree? >> one, nato has performed a huge positive role, won the cold war and also helped get communist countries get democracy after the war. lou: 25 years ago? >> now, now, in terms of reform, he's got to spell out. when put sin on the rise in europe and lithuania and latvia and astonia are -- people like henry kissinger tell you what does he have in mind? that's what he's got to flush out. lou: i can't remember the last presidential candidate. i can go back to george w. bush. he said he was going to cut taxes. he did. this president -- presidents often don't tell us what may do

and seldom do what they tell us. i'm not as keen on specificity as you are. i like the broad brush he brings to it and fresh thinking. >> well, but he's got to show he can carry this thing through. when ronald reagan ran in 1980, he had some broad themes but he also had substance to back them up. lou: i just look at barack obama, steve, and i say, where were all the specificity and the demand for it? the man has been an unmitigated presidential disaster without reservation, and now suddenly trump, or whomever the republicans put out has to come up with a specific plan? we're not buying it. >> give an indication where the country is going to go. reagan said he's going to cut taxes across the board 30%. he got the mandate, made it happen, the country revived. so people are looking for what

direction is trump want to take us in? by the way, in terms of obama, what he did with saudi arabia in terms of saudi arabia's propping up egypt through subsidies fighting the bad guys in yemen. disses them. ditches the egyptians. lou: i'm a little more -- i agree with you, i'm a little more concerned about what he's done with iran. >> and he wants iran to dominate the middle east. lou: gotta run, steve. great to have you with us. he did give you the vision. make america great again, steve. >> like john kennedy, get america moving again. lou: get out of here, steve! thank you so much for being here, great to have you here. x games gold medalist setting a new record. completing the longest rail slide on skis, going down a rail for 424 feet, the previous record was 405. a year old record.

10,000 pounds of steel welded together to complete the custom rail and he used every inch of it. up next, rnc chairman priebus says the system is not rigged. >> the nominee has to have a majority of delegates supporting that person and when someone gets a majority of delegates they're going to be the nominee of our party. the same thing that abraham lincoln enjoyed. it's the same thing that's going to happen in 2016. lou: republican campaign attorney charlie spies weighs in with us next. we're going to hear -- i think charlie would agree, he does speak for the establishment. we'll hear what the establishment has to say for itself. charlie spies joins me next. stay with us. when you booked this trip,

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>> well, i don't buy the premise that because mr. manafort says everyone should fall in line behind what he's calling the presumptive nominee that that won anybody over. lou: actually, he was not calling him presumptive nominee, i am. because we took a poll and our audience believes he should be called that. and i made a bargain with my audience as i often do, i'll do what they say. that was me. >> traditionally the nominee earns that. lou: yes, i think that, but these are not traditional times, are they? i mean how are we going to see the republican party now, because they have made progress, obviously, that emanates from both the rnc itself, reince priebus and paul manafort representing his candidate. this should be a time of considerable confidence and good feelings. i don't get that sense from either senator cruz or governor kasich or charlie spies.

>> or donald trump. if he was confident he was going to win this, he wouldn't be saying the system is rigged. that's a setup to complain for when he doesn't win. lou: to clarify, he did say that paul manafort said trump never intended to suggest the individuals were corrupt, only the system itself, archaic, byzantine, arcane did i mention? and sometimes not representative of the will of the people. you don't disagree with that in certain instances? >> very good attempt to clean up for his candidate. but his candidate spent the last few weeks attacking the rnc. lou: yeah. >> and i think -- if you were in florida -- lou: feel i should flip my hand over my heart as you say the rnc. >> 168 republican activists and people who toiled in the fields to get candidates elected. >> there is a reciprocal, bilateral relationship here. that is reince priebus,

extraordinarily hostile toward donald trump, the man who will be running the convention, speaker ryan, critical and severely so of trump. these are supposed to be neutral people. you can understand why there might be a shared misapprehension on the part of the rnc and the trump campaign? >> with due respect i think those might be trump talking points. lou: the part about trump or the part about reince or ryan? >> that priebus hasn't been fair. lou: is there going to be good blood and sensible coming together here on the part of the rnc? because the rnc is supposed to be the leader here. neutral in the absolute sense, raising money, organizing the party, and going out and winning in november. >> the rnc has been neutral. they've fairley applied the rules and today the standing rules committee met and

declined to change the rules mid course and keeps everybody on a level playing field. lou: we're going to have to go, very quickly. >> over the next couple of months, donald trump has to earn the support by winning the delegates and establishing himself as -- lou: i think he's committed to doing, that he's spending more money, campaigning like hell. what are you doing to prepare for the general? >> well, hillary clinton is not who we want. lou: amen, brother! thanks for being here. charlie spies. good to have you here. come back soon. >> love to. lou: you got it. a college softball game, a stunning halt to it. a dust devil interrupting a game in virginia. look at that. the dustup only momentarily halted the action, may have benefitted the home team for five runs in the bottom of the fourth inning. nothing like a little curveball from nature. up next, donald trump,

speaking of curveballs decided to throw a traditional campaign at them. why fix what's not broken? eboni williams and chris plante join us next. stay with us. at temenos, with the microsoft cloud, we can enable a banker to travel to the most remote locations with nothing but a phone and a tablet. everywhere where there's a phone, you have a bank. now a person is able to start a business, and employ somebody for the first time. the microsoft cloud helped us to bring banking to ten million people in just two years. it's transforming our world. ♪ poor mouth breather.

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attorneys in the country, rnc veteran defending strongly the rnc. your reaction. >> well, look, i think that serves to help donald trump. certainly the biggest thing that i think trump has going for him is the fact that he's a political outsider. and going into this general -- i certainly think it's going to be against hillary clinton, that's the narrative he's got to stick with a little bit. the minute he starts -- and i understand. there's a necessity at some point to get some of these congressional insiders on his team for the delegate purpose and things that will happen at the convention. but, look, she's been a part of the problem, i bring the solutions, i'm an outsider, that's the strongest narrative for trump. >> chris, your reaction. >> well, you know, the rnc is kind of an impossible situation this year. there's -- i don't think there's a winning path for them. and if it continues to appear that donald trump is at odds with the rnc, i agree with ebony, that actually helps donald trump because they represent of course the establishment and he does not.

so if they're loggerheads, good for him, bad for the rnc, i don't think there's a way out for them. they should not change the rules. they were wise to not start changing the rules. that wouldn't have passed the smell test. that would have been very bad for them. and continue to not change the rules. >> yeah, i agree with you. going into the week before the convention. they're taking a strong look at adjusting rule 40b or some of the others. then you're going to have a compounded effect -- you're going to have a cinch, not a smell. >> you bet. >> is it too early, ebony, for donald trump? he says we're listening to him in harrisburg tonight, he says he's pivoting to presidential, preparing to. do you think this is the time? >> i think it's early. i think and, you know, your tease you talked about fixing something that's not broken. and the challenges he has, and

he does have many. i think he's still the front-runner for a reason. and i certainly don't think this is the time right now. it's barrel -- we're not even in may yet, still a ways off july. to get to the quote traditional candidate. traditional candidates aren't doing well this year. and marco rubio. >> right. >> paul announcing that he had talked with the rnc, he and rick willis were down there in hollywood, florida where the rnc's meeting. and, you know, he said they're going to shift more traditional campaign, they're going to do fundraising for the rnc. it sounded warm, it sounded good. and paul said they began the process of coming together. do you believe it? >> well, if it is happening, it's very reluctant, reluctant on everybody's part. if donald trump becomes the nominee, then obviously that's going to have to have to happen. i don't see it happening before he's the nominee.

i think they're going through the motions. it's kind of the first dance. that's fine, that's good news. because if he does become the nominee, the party is going to have to adapt to the fact he's the nominee, as donald trump is more presidential, i agree with ebony, it might be too early. if it ain't broke, don't fix it. but at some point if he does become the nominee, he has to change the routine. at least in some respects traditionally presidential. >> and that's to chris' point, though, lou, that's where he has leverage. finish strong and make them take the bitter pill of donald trump. don't do it the other way around. >> i don't think that any of us have the slightest concern in that regard. [laughter] i think it is -- with ted cruz seeming to step up his attacks on trump since he got beat in

new york, i think it's a little early. ebony, chris, thanks for having you go here. >> thanks, lou. >> that's it for us tonight. we thank you for being with us. town hall sky benson ahead with us here tomorrow night. please be with us. good night from new york. ♪ ♪ . kennedy: well, welcome to a very somber evening here. the world music fans mourning the loss of prince, whose tragic death brings immediate sadness and bittersweet rediscovery of favorite songs and outrageous moments. of course he was a shy minnesotaian who found his place in strength and music, having taught himself to play several instruments, whose steady rise was punctuated by an explosion when purple played in movie theaters and radios and tv in 1984. he remained a personal mystery as fans