trump and how well they get along in the press. i can't wait to see him. follow me on twitter an instagram. e-mail me anytime. the doors always open. lou dobbs. donald trump appears ready to pivot to more presidential demeanor and to focus on the general election and the democrat's presumptive nominee the republican front runner telling a town hall meeting today he's going to act so presidential that, quote, you will be to bored, end quote. and trump is so committed to making that pivot, that change, he's now practicing delivering at least some of his speeches with the help of teleprompters, a tool that president obama, of course, relies on constantly, but a tool that trump has used as far as i know, only once over the past ten months.

the change in trump comes as he builds out his campaign team bringing on more experienced campaign leaders and among them trump convention manager paul manafo manafort. manafort will be our guest tonight from hollywood florida. that's where republican national committee officials have been wrangling over whether to change rules that trump says are rigged against him. >> politics is a very dirty, dirty dishonest business, folks, and i have never seen anything like it, and we're running now for office and it's a rigged deal. this whole thing with delegates is rigged. it's a rig. where i win louisiana and i don't get as many delegates as some guy that lost? >> the newest franklin and marshall college poll shows trump on top 40% support, that's 14 points ahead of ted cruz, and

congressman from pennsylvania lieu barletta and marino -- well, these two congressmen are leading the effort to line up trump supporters to be elected as delegates. 54 of the safe 71 delegates will be unbound, not pledged to support anyone that emerges from this primary tuesday, it's quite a system and just part of what has been an adventure in this primary season. joining us now is the top trump campaign official, he is the convention manager, strategist, paul manafort. paul a veteran republican strategi strategist, he's worked with presidents ford, reagan, bush and joining us from hollywood, florida, i should say the site of the rnc spring meeting. it is great to have you on the show. i know that you and rick wiley talked to the rnc members. do you feel you were successful

in conveying the messages that you wanted? >> well, donald trump thought it was important because he could not attend this week due to the fact that he's out there campaigning in the primaries that the campaign hav a presence here to answer any questions the rnc members have and to also let them know that as far as donald trump is concerned, you know, as he becomes the presumptive nominee of the party he's looking to work with the rnc and work with the other leaders of the state parties to begin to put together the framework for what will be a united republican effort in the fall. >> and, paul, the -- working with the rnc, so much public what would we say acrimony between the rnc, the man that will be leading the convention, paul ryan, and donald trump of course being extremely critical of the primary -- primary system, at least many of the primaries in this country. is that being smoothed over?

is that process under way? is there a coming together, if you will, between donald trump and the rnc? >> i believe there is a coming together, yes, and really a lot of the acrimony as you call it is really a lot of misunderstanding. donald trump always understood as the nominee of the republican party he would be working with republican national committee, the senator y'all campaign committee, congressional committee rga and other institutions because as leader of the party his goal is not only to ee likt himself but ensure a republican majority in the congress and help elect governors and other downstream members as well. >> i want to turn to -- it sounded though -- as though that there was a pledge of deeper cooperation certainly than there has been. that may not be a terrific amount, but a pledge of a traditional relationship between the nominee and the rnc

including fundraising, organization, campaigning for candidates. is that a fair -- fair statement? >> donald trump has been talking to the chairman of the party over the course of the last few weeks and has had very good phone calls as recently as yesterday and he has made it clear that he's looking forward to working with him to pull the party together. as far as he's concerned as he becomes the presumptive nominee he understands that the chairman of the party has an responsibility really to work to help bring the unity as well together with trump. and so this is -- it's a process, it's an ongoing process, we're getting closer to this point where he will be the presumptive nominee and then the nomin nominee. we believe that there will not be a contested convention in cleveland and we don't want to wait until cleveland to start putting together the apparatus necessary to run a united republican nomination in the

fall. >> you have two candidates out there, governor kasich with very few delegates, about 300 points behind -- delegates behind your candidate is of course ted cruz. ted cruz is -- if anything has raised the intensity of his attacks on donald trump. your thoughts about that and the appropriate response as even the candidate is talking about being more presidential in the face of such -- such attacks. >> well, he is raising the level of attack because he's losing and he knows he's losing and he's trying to change the narrative but he's failing. we had a great day in new york on tuesday, we will have another great day on tuesday in the northeast states where we expect to do very well in pennsylvania, rhode island, delaware, maryland, connecticut. so cruz is trying to dis strakt from what's going on by making a

lot of noise. the noise is not going to affect the increased difference in the vote count between trump and cruz both on total votes received as well as on delegates. we will have another good day on tuesday and it's going to get us closer to the magic number. >> you are still confident you can hit something -- 1,237, the numbers have been reported a little higher than that because of internal memoranda, but that you can hit 1,237, say, by june 7th? >> we think it's critical for the republican party to come together before july. if we are fighting in july, if the convention is fractured in july, then our chances of winning in november will be dramatically impacted. from our standpoint we are the only one who can nominated on the first ballot and we think that the voters in the republican party are indicating where they want to be. you have 66% of republicans saying that the leader in total votes and delegates should be the nominee.

that's already finished. we know who is going to finish first in both of those categories. so now is the time to start the healing process with the leadership of the party, now is the time for the trump organization and mr. trump has told us this, to begin to reach out to republican groups, to begin with bring together all of the elements of the campaign structures so that we can merge the presidential campaign with the committee campaigns. >> and those efforts are going to intensify in the days ahead? >> absolutely. >> all right. paul manafort, thanks for taking the time. i know you've had a busy, busy day. thanks so much. >> thank you very much. a huge hometown victory moves trump closer to the presidential nomination. >> thank you, everybody, and thank you, new york. we love new york. we love new york. thank you very much, everybody. thank you. >> ed rollins, tammy bruce and pat buchanan among our guests tonight. they're coming up. my mom loves giving me advice. she even gives me advice... ...about my toothpaste and mouthwash.

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more good news for donald trump tonight. a new quinnipiac university poll shows trump with a strong lead now in connecticut. trump leading his rivals by 28 points, he has 48% support, governor case i can 28%, cruz

19. the connecticut primary takes place next tuesday, 28 delegates at state. >> joining us tonight republican strategist ed rollins, washington times columnist radio host tammy bruce, both fox news contributors. great to have you here. >> thank you. >> you i've got to start with you, ed, just give you all the credit in the world. ed called the race in new york and did so early. >> i missed -- i missed the 12th congressional district, upper east side, trump lost that by 70 votes. >> isn't that amazing. >> unbelievable. he really swept the state not spending any money. >> it's stunning to look at. i mean, everyone was sort of playing expectations games -- by the way, both trump, cruz -- well, not so much the cruz, the cruz people just wanted out of the state. your reaction to it. >> look, i think that this is not necessarily a surprise. we've seen that this is what every -- look, when he started winning evangelicals the bell

should have been going off around the country, mr. trump has affected every section. women, gays, black, white, different economic frame works, the evangelicals, the atheists, because we have one thing this common, we care about the future, we want to have a job that we can be proud of, we want our children to have jobs, we want the nonsense to stop, we've given them 15 years since september 11th to get security done, it's not happening. suddenly there is a man who where there's maybe a 20 or 30% chance even that something right might happen and he will be best with the economy and the jobs, this is the wake-up call and i don't think you can deny it anymore. >> tammy, i say that's -- you found affusive. >> i'm the partisan for the united states, i have had many favorites that have not included mr. trump but if this is where people are going i'm getting an education about the nature of what's important to him and,

dammit, he is going to have to deliver. >> i applaud affusiveness. i would much rather see affusiveness than the receipt sense that we see for whatever reason -- >> i'm italian. >> -- the rnc. as tammy lays out the panorama of possibilities for everyone in the country there is reince priebus, paul ryan and the rnc going, you know, we've got rules. >> dammit. >> what are we going to do here, ed? >> we're going to continue the process here and trump certainly has momentum, had a tremendous victory and he will have a big victory next tuesday, what we call the acella caucuses, maryland, pennsylvania, delaware, connecticut, he's going to do well in all of those. i think there's two spots he has to worry about in the future here, one is indiana, there's not enough data out in indiana to know. >> to his credit, though, he is in indiana and he has got mike

pence -- he has his hand clasped saying i am donald trump -- >> that's important because remember that's the one state that swung back and forth. >> definitively a battle ground state. >> it is a battle ground state so it's an important state. then of course california which is the alamo. at the end of the day here he either gets enough votes there to get the nomination or he doesn't and that's -- no one else has a chance, he is the only one that has a chance, everything at this point has stopped him. >> do you think this is a turning point. >> yes. >> they're talking 1400 delegates by the time they get to convention and that one vote as paul manafort says, that's all they need is one ballot. >> that's what they're going to have to do. if it goes to the second ballot it means what they did didn't work so they know they have to. at the same time you saw in the speech last night, seven and a half minutes long, talked about jobs and the economy, called senator cruz senator cruz. but also a warning to senator cruz, they have been in

california for a year but donald trump's team now is putting tens of millions of dollars and into television ads for the state. that is new which means it will be a more controlled, more consistent message. that you can't get when you get the free media from rallies. >> maybe a losing strategy since he has not had any media so far and has done any well. >> it will be a combination, i don't think he's going to give up one for the other it's going to add into this messaging and i think that will work in california. >> what do you think, ed, you get to calling california. >> haets will err hear it. >> conservatives that are left in the republican party in california have pretty much been for cruz, it's going to be a trench warfare. i'm not predicting in any way, shape or form cruz is going to win california but he may deny -- >> we have a lot of time. >> i will get close when we get further down the road here but i am saying next week add to the trump momentum after that i think he's got -- >> five states next tuesday, it will be interesting to see. and by the way, trump favored in

every one of them at this point. >> remember pennsylvania has 52 that are not pledged delegates. >> 54. >> 54. that's going to be a game all the way to the convention. >> that's a little bit of the private clubbishness of the gop. >> i can't get over that. ed rollins, again, great call on new york. look forward to your next one. tammy bruce, thanks for being here. if you thought riding a hoverboard was dangerous on the street, watch this. this russian daredevil is as you can tell living on the edge, on the top of a skyscraper. the young man no stranger to danger or such exploits and institutes, this is not something i can imagine anyone ever doing but there it is. up next speaker paul ryan loves to talk about how he may or may not be -- are you kidding me? do i -- okay. destined for the white house. give me a break. >> as a visitor. >> are you -- ever running from

president? >> no, but i don't think that far down the road. i made a decision in in cycle for 2016 not to run for president. >> you know, there's presumptuous and there's just out of your mind. i will have a few thoughts about that in my commentary tonight. stay with us. does your mouth often feel dry? multiple medications, a dry mouth can be a side effect of many medications. but it can also lead to tooth decay and bad breath. that's why there's biotene, available as an oral rinse, toothpaste, spray or gel. biotene can provide soothing relief and it helps keep your mouth healthy too. remember, while your medication is doing you good, a dry mouth isn't.

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a few thoughts now on the games or at least some of the games being played by republican leaders and the gop establishment. speaker paul ryan who i really like, i think he is a very likeable fellow, he just happens to belong in both camps and seems unable these days to control himself. ryan infuriating house republicans with his spending bill that would raise the deficit, offending many by reaching deals with president obama before reaching deals with gop house members or even letting them know what's going

on. and then injecting himself into presidential politics, attacking donald trump and then making his first late night tv appearance and playing cute with steven colbert. >> let me say it in clear english. no. >> okay. how about clear german? >> clear russian. >> [ speaking foreign language ] >> wow, you seem to know a lot of foreign languages, that kind of experience will come in handy if you decide to accept the republican nomination. >> his late show appearance not a particularly bright move by the speaker who is annoying just about everybody these days except of course mr. obama and the democrats. ryan's appearance certainly didn't help him offset his graph tas deficit. some might be forgiven for thinking the speaker appearing a triefl silly nld a the speaker seems always to be lacking a

sense of proportion as yesterday when he rather transparent lie tried to boost the beleaguered chairman of the rnc. ryan's good pal reince priebus invited to capitol hill to brief house republicans on the delegate process. declaring that priebus has received, well, an extremely favorable warm reception by the house. ryan also adding he is so please that had someone like priebus is in charge of the rnc, making sure the rules are followed. you can only imagine donald trump's delight as he listens to such triep. all ryan accomplished was to leave everyone shaking their heads at his naivefivete and so might say his boldness and that he wasn't ready in any way for that job he didn't seek but now holds. mitch mcconnell trying meekly to walk back his anti-trump remarks

saying he spoke, as he put it, inartfully. they talk like that in the senate, you know, when he said he was increasingly optimistic that there will be a second ballot at the convention. he has decided that was probably too much. with all these so-called leaders lacking an obvious tact, constraint, intellect, conviction, graph tas and character it is no wonder donald trump unsettles them so profoundly. if the gop loses seats in the house or senate it will clearly be the fault of their leaders and it appears the only way many of those threatened seats will survive in fact will be on the strong coat tails of a true leader who has yet to be welcomed by the weak. now our quotation of the evening, this one from pj o'rourke who said, there are two parties, the silly party and the stupid party. i'm too old for the silly party

so i had to join the stupid party. in my opinion, if i may say, the two parties it seems to me have a lot in common with each other, don't you think? follow me on twitter @"lou dobbs tonight," like me on facebook, follow me on facebook. we will get to "lou dobbs tonight," links for everything are there. a hollywood stunt man performing a maneuver he calls a leap of faith. damian walters showing off -- oh, my goodness. look at that. i don't care how that was done, that's -- i mean, that's just crazy. you've got a lot of faith in the fellow or whoever he has yelled jump. it was going, by the way, 60 miles an hour. walters is no stranger to moves like this, he served as a stunt double to daniel craig's james bond in sky fall. up next, priebus says the

system is not rigged. >> the nominee has to have a majority of delegates supporting that person and when someone gets a majority of delegates they are going to be the nominee of our party, the same thing that abraham lincoln enjoyed, it's the same thing that's going to happen in 2016. >> republican campaign attorney charlie spies weighs in us with us collect. he does speak for the establishment. we will hear what the establishment has to stay for itself. he joins me next. stay with us. i'm mary ellen, and i quit smoking with chantix. i always came back to smoking. i was absolutely frustrated, absolutely. i did not think chantix would work as well as it did. along with support, chantix (varenicline) is proven to help people quit smoking. chantix reduced my urge to smoke. some people had changes in behavior, thinking or mood, hostility, agitation, depressed mood and suicidal thoughts or actions while taking or after stopping chantix.

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get your first two meals free at blueapron.com/cook. speece, veteran political campaign attorney, former election law counsel for the republican national committee acting as cfo and counsel for mitt romney's 2008 presidential campaign. charlie, great to have you here. >> thank you. >> i know your heart has to be bursting with pride and great and good will that the rnc and paul manafort representing mr. trump have seemed to have begun the coming together. i am correctly describing your emotions, am i not? >> well, i don't buy the premise that because mr. manafort says everyone should fall in line what he's calling the presumptive nominee that that won anybody over. >> actually he was not calling him presumptive nominee. >> okay. >> i am.

>> okay. >> because we took a poll and our audience believes that he should be called that at this point and i had made a bargain with my audience as i often do that i will do what they say. >> traditionally the nominee earns that. >> yes, i think so, but these are not traditional times, are they? i mean, how are we going to see the republican party now because they have made progress obviously that emanates from both the rnc itself, reince priebus, and paul manafort representing his candidate. this should be a time of considerable confidence and good feelings. i don't get that sense from either senator cruz or governor kasich or charlie speece. >> or donald trump. i mean, if he was confident that he was going to win this he wouldn't be saying the system was rigged. that's a setup to then campaign for when he doesn't win. >> to clarify, he did say

that -- paul manafort said that trump never intended to suggest that the individuals were corrupt only the systems itself archaic, byzantine, arcane did i mention and sometimes to the representative of the will of the people. you don't disagree with that. >> that's a very good attempt to clean up for his candidate but his candidate spent the last few weeks attacking the rnc and i think if you were -- >> i feel like i should put my hand over my heart as you say the rnc. >> well, the rnc has 168 republican activists and people who have toild in the fields trying to get candidates elected. >> there is a reciprocal bilateral relationship here, that is, reince priebus who was extraordinarily hostile toward donald trump, the manhole be running the convention speaker ryan critical and severely so of trump. these were supposed to be neutral people. you can understand why there might be a shared misapprehension on the part of

both the rnc and the trump campaign. >> with due respect i think those might be trump talking points. >> yeah. >> reince priebus -- >> the part about trump or the part about ryan -- >> that priebus hasn't been -- >> let's not fence. is there going to be good blood and sensible coming together here on the part of the rnc because the rnc is supposed to be the leader here, neutral in the -- in an absolute sense, raising money, organizing the party and going out and winning in november. >> the rnc has been neutral, they've fairly applied the rules and today the rules committee, the standing rules committee met and they declined to change the rules mid course. >> good going. >> so that it's fair and keeps everybody on the same playing field. >> right. >> but now -- >> i hope that's a commitment for the next several months. we're going to have to go. very quickly. >> over the next couple of months donald trump has to earn the support by winning the delegates and establishing

himself as -- >> well, i think he has committed to doing that, he's spending more money do it, campaigning like hell. what are you doing to prepare for the general? >> well, hillary clinton is not who we want. >> amen, brother. thanks for being here. charlie speece, good to have you here. come back soon. >> love to. >> you got it. joining me tonight former u.s. ambassador to the united nations, american enterprise institute senior fellow john bolton, also a fox news contributor. great to have you here. ambassador, the royal family decided to stiff president obama when he got to riyadh sending out the governor of riyadh inn tell of king salmon. is there any insult that is too much for this president? >> well, maybe they're topping the cubans who didn't bother to send out the castro brothers to greet him. i think it's a mark of obviously the dissatisfaction the saudis feel given what president obama has done on iran, there are a

lot of issues between us and saudi arabia, but, you know, if he went -- if obama went to israel who do you think bibi netanyahu would send to the airport. >> anybody. anybody. >> but a two-hour meeting and he's telling the president -- the president is telling npr that the saudis now are on board with his iranian deal. >> he has been saying that -- >> that's stunning. >> -- for some time. of course they are not on board. they acknowledge the reality that the deal is there and obama plans to enforce it. obama said just the other day in response to a question that the saudis, the other arabs need to have to share the region with iran. let's like tells the polls to share the region with nazi germany. i think it's at best a naive view but more likely pernicious. >> and suggested the french perhaps could use their streets for parades. >> plant flowers. you know, get used to it.

>> is there any -- i mean, this man is -- he's gone beyond strange, he's gone into absurdity itself and people are just shaking their heads, yet no one wants to say anything. >> yeah. well, i think they're afraid of the consequences if they do and what i hear from people, our friends around the world, is they just want to get to january the 20th, 2017, and get past this. from their perspective anything else would be better because there would be some demonstration of american strength they think with almost any successor. >> do you think anyone in the white house notices that everyone else is holding their breath here? >> i think they are in a bubble of their own creation. they think they're building a legacy, really they're just making a mockery. i think it's as if the president has retired already, which has its benefits, by the way. >> i was going to say i think you can get -- you can get a lot of support -- >> for that, absolutely. >> -- that particular petition. it's always great to have you here. >> thank you, lou.

>> thanks so much. a college softball game a stunning halt to it, a dust devil interrupting a game between the lynchburg hornets and eagles. look at that. the dust up only momentarily halted the action. may have even benefited the home team, the hornets rallied for five runs in the bottom of the inning. nothing like a little curveball from nature. up next, donald trump, speaking of curve balls, he has decided to throw a traditional campaign at them. why fix what's not broken? eboni williams, chris plant join ith us. innovative sonicare technology with up to 27% more brush movements versus oral b. get healthier gums in 2 weeks guaranteed. innovation and you. philips sonicare. save when you buy the most loved rechargeable toothbrush brand in america.

joining us tonight host of the chris plante show on mlal, chris plante and attorney radio talk show host help knee william williams. >> eboni, charlie speece, one of the most accomplished election law attorneys in the country defending strongly the rnc. your reaction? >> well, look, i think that serves to help donald trump. certainly the biggest thing that i think trump has going for him is the fact that he is a political outsider and going into in general especially -- i certainly think it looks like it's going to be against hillary clinton, that's the narrative he has to stick with. the minute he starts -- and i

understand there is a necessarily at some point to get some of these congressional insiders on his team for the delegate purposes and things that will happen at the convention, but look, when he makes it, she has been a part of the problem, i bring the solutions, i'm an outsider that's the strongest narrative for trump. >> chris, your reaction? >> you know, the rnc is in an impossible situation this year, i don't think there is a winning path for them and if it continues to appear that donald trump is at odds with the rnc i agree with eboni that actually helps donald trump because they represent of course the establishment and he does not. so if they are at logger heads, good for him, bad for the rnc. i don't think there is a way out for them. they should not change the rules, they were wise to not start changing the rules now, that wouldn't have passed the smell test, that would have been very bad form for them. they should continue to not change the rules. >> i agree with you if going into the week before the convention suddenly they are taking a strong look at

adjusting rule 40-b or some of the others then you are going to be a compounded effect, you are going to have a stench not a smell result. >> you bet. >> is it too early, eboni, for donald trump he says as we're listening to him in harrisburg tonight he says he's pivoting to presidential, preparing to. do you think this is the time? >> i think it's early. i think your tease -- lou, you talked about not fixing something that's not broken. regardless of his unfavorables, regardless of the challenges that he faces and he does have many, i think he is still the front runner for a reason. we're not even in may yet, still a ways off from july to start becoming more of a, quote, traditional candidate. traditional candidates are not doing well this year, ask marco rubio. >> paul manafort, he had talked with the rnc, he and rick wiley

were down there in hollywood, florida, where the rnc is meeting and, you know, said they're going to shift more traditional campaign, do fundraising for the rnc. it sounded warm, it sounded good and paul manafort said they've done the process of coming together. do you believe it? >> if it is happening it's very reluctant. it's reluctant on everybody's part. if donald trump does become the nominee then obviously that's going to have to happen. i don't see it happening before he becomes the nominee in earnest anyway. i think they're going through the motions, it's kind of a first dance. that's fine, that's good news because if he does become the nominee then the party is going to have to adapt to the fact that he is the nominee. as for donald trump becoming more presidential, i agree with eboni again, it might be a little too early and as you said if it ain't broke don't fix it, but at some point perhaps after he becomes the nominee if he

does he i think is going to have to change up the routine a bit and become more at least in some respects traditionally presidential. >> and to chris' point that's where he has more leverage, donald trump. just finish strong, don't cow tail, finish strong and make them take the bitter pill of donald trump. don't do it the other way around. >> i don't think any of us have the slightest concern in that regard. i think it is -- with ted cruz seem to go step up his attacks on trump since he got walloped in new york, i think it is well established it's a little early yet. eboni williams, chris plante, as always great to have you guys here. >> thanks, lou. x games gold medalist recently setting a new world record. you have to see it. tom wallish completing the longest rail slide on skis successfully. going down a rail for 424 feet, the previous record was 405, that was a year old record.

10,000 pounds of steel welded together to complete that custom rail and he used every inch of it. u.s. officials have uncovered a new drug tunnel connecting mexico to california. the tunnel outfitted with ventilation, electricity and a rail system is the third such tunnel to be found in the region since march. six people have been arrested in san diego, they're charged with crimes involving drugs and, yes, construction of that tunnel. the discover bolstering the case for the trump claims which he says as president he would straighten out forth with. up next, donald trump says the delegate game is rigged, the rnc is rigged, it's time to fix it and he's just the fellow to do that. we take up the looked system and the folks who are, well, pulling the levers. i will be talking with conservative author, best selling author, pat buchanan.

here next. stay with us. p?p?h

donald trump's campaign adviser saying trump is now the prohibitive favorite in the republican presidential race. trump's convention manager paul manafort talking to sean hannity last night about the prospect of a contested convention.

>> there's not going to be a second ballot. there is not an issue. >> you're convinced? >> we have several ways to get to 1,237 by early june and today was a giant step forward, we think we're going to have another great week next week, but more importantly what you saw -- you saw record turnout today in new york and a record turnout with a primary that everybody knew donald trump was going to win. >> a great point and leaked internal memoranda showing the trump campaign is now predicting trump will secure 1,400 delegates to take the nomination on the first ballot in cleveland. joining us now pat buchanan, he has been a senior adviser to three presidents, twice a candidate for the republican presidential nomination himself, he's a nationally syndicated columnist and in between all of that one of the country's leading best selling authors. pat, great to have you with us.

>> good to talk to you again, lou. >> let's start by the victory by donald trump in new york, paul manafort talking about 1,400 is their projection. i wouldn't suggest there's any marketing in that, but do you think that's a realistic number? >> that sounds to me like a little bit of sigh war, lou, it's a signal to all the delegates saying in effect, look, fellas, get aboard this train is leaving the station and make sure you're on it. but i do think that the possibility exists that donald trump could take this thing pretty handily on the first ballot, but 1,400 sounds a little bit out of the range for me. >> 1,400 or 1,300, you know, these still become workable numbers. let's turn if we can to the party itself. i have never seen the party -- and i have covered conventions from '76 forward -- i have never seen a party take on their front

runner the way the elites of the gop have taken on donald trump. have you? >> no, i have not. and to a degree some of the elites in 1964 out at the palace did this when goldwater was taken and his agents were taking the party away from them. i think the same thing obtains here, lou. these elites see in a trump run for the nomination and a successful run really their eclipse. hick taking over the party. him moving on a new direction on trade deals, him securing the borders and no amnesty. and even in the intervention all over the world, these military interventions which many of the neo cons favor there may be no more. i think they all see their agenda, they all see their rice bowls broken and their agenda canceled. >> when you mentioned the neo cons, i mean, the strong -- the surprise here to me the strongest surprise of all has

been the evangelical, the religious conservatives in this country who are embracing donald trump even as the neo cons react in fear and rejection at the anticipation of a trump agenda, others are embracing and a new balance is being, if you will, projected by the trump candid y candidacy. >> i think the evangelicals are showing a measure of sophistication here. look, everyone agrees the country is in real trouble, trump, whatever you say, he's do the diana michl, energy about him and he's going to deal with these things. i think what they're saying s look, we trust trump not because we believe he is a social conservative or evangelical christian, but we think he will do what is in his interest and the party interest and we believe him when he says he will put scalia-type fellas on the supreme court. so i think it's a sophisticated response on the part of the evangelicals. >> you talked in your most recent column about the gop

risking suicide here. do you believe the elites are going to at least at some point come to their senses and say -- and acknowledge the front runner and begin a healing process and move toward unity? >> i think the elites are almost out of the game, lou. i think the real challenge and the only challenge to trump comes from cruz. but i will say this, if this party gathers in cleveland and trump has the most victories and the most states and the most delegates and millions more votes than anyone else and the biggest crowds ever and the party then turns and says, now we present to america our winner, ournominee, ted cruz, i think that is really not credible for the party to say at that point. but i think the elites really they have been feeble here in washington, d.c., they seem to have no control, we talk about the establishment, it's been

shoved aside in a battle between trump and cruz and i don't know what cruz is saying, but he's never seemed to me to have been really a beloved figure up on capitol hill. >> that is what they call a kind description for the senator on capitol hill. let me turn, pat -- >> sure. >> -- to the agenda. you have paul ryan, the speaker, who will be running the convention as is traditional, but i have never seen a speaker be both -- interject himself into the race, attack a candidate and simultaneously say he is going to put forward an agenda that will compete with that of the nominee. this is unheard of, especially when that nominee is bringing in millions and millions of people into the tent that has been woefully, woefully attended over the course of the two previous election cycles. >> but you are right about what trump has done in terms -- he has brought people into the

republican primaries by the millions and millions, they have had the largest turnout i think they have ever had in any kind of primaries in state after state. >> correct. >> i would really admonished paul ryan to take a look at one example. back in 1964 when goldwater won the nomination, rockefeller and romney and scranton they all cut him good-bye and good luck. two people went out for goldwater all over the country that year, richard nixon and ronald reagan and the future belonged to them for standing by someone they knew was going down to defeat in a horrible defeat and being there beside him. if i were paul ryan and he's obviously got a future in the party i would say, look, i'm going to support the nominee for this party and go out and work for him because i'm the leader of the forces on capitol hill. >> pat, great to have you here. come back soon. always good to talk with you. >> good to talk to you, my friend. >> pat buchanan. thanks for joining us tonight. goodnight from new york.

spina i know it's hard not to interrupt. >> are you disappointed by the likely republican and democratic nominees? >> what difference at this point is a may? john: we have heard so much from the republicans and democrats. now it's time to hear from the libertarians. the three toppling presidential candidate debate here tonight. in our two-part libertarian presidential forum. and now, john stossel. [applause]