president. jeb bush thought he would make the best president. if jeb bush can think that anyone can think that. >> even paul ryan? >> even paul ryan, your hero and mine. >> as we salute him. we conclude him andy, thank you for being here with us. good night, new york. john: hi, i'm back, and i'm not dead. i say that because i wrote me in my syndicated couple, i got a long cancer diagnosis. a few week ago a surgeon chopped the lung cancer out and they caught it early. i don't even have to have chemo. that's the good news. but the bad news is while the healthcare is excellent, the customer service stings. this man thought he had the answer. he didn't. now some people say obamacare didn't go far enough.

>> get the private health insurance company out of there. john: is government healthcare the answer? it didn't work for the va. they have movie playing in the waiting room. just so someone has a better experience. >> our typical waiting time is less than five minute. why does this doctor work so hard to please patient? >> because they will leave. people will not stay, they have choices. john: choice in medicine. what a concept. that's our show, tonight. >> announcer: now john stossel. john: i have reported on american healthcare for decade but now it's more personal. several week ago a surgeon cut a

small malignant tumor out my lung. i picked that hospital -- i didn't pick it, my doctors recommended a surgeon there, and what do i know about the best place to go? i spent more time researching which cell phone to buy. it's rated best in new york. >> named the number one hospital in tampa bay. john: good for them. but what does that mean? are the ratings accurate? do they help people shop for the best healthcare? we rarely have as much information about hospitals as i had shopping for this phone. how should we shop for healthcare? let's talk to people who think about that. david gold hill is ceo of a grape show network. when a hospital killed his

father he wrote this book about how to fix american healthcare. an american hospital killed your father. >> he died of an infection acquired in the hospital that was preventable. estimates of errors are 250,000 a year. and the third biggest cause of death and i asked why does that happen? why are hospitals not inventived to do more. john: the season season tough ie incentive is not to kill you. >> unfortunately the customer of the hospital isn't the patient, it's the insurer, medicare, and medicaid, and that difference explained a lot of the things we see in the healthcare system. john: let me turn to what i wrote in the article.

for all i know my care was good, but the customer service was awful. you had to fill out the same forms again and again. the same information. sometimes they would say the doctor is coming an would come two hours later and they don't bother to email you and say he's not going to be there for a while. when they dismiss you, you wait two hours and nobody talks to you. >> there is no reup burstment for -- there is no reimbursement for good personalized care. every hour they had an appointment for the pre-op. he single place had them fill out the same information. when they said why am i refilling this out, they go, the systems don't talk to each other. john: you have a group leap frog trying to change the way we rate -- >> we have been publishing hospital data.

a simple a-f grade. john: i just discovered new york presbyterian got a c grade. below and on infections. good on specially trained doctors. >> below average on a couple of never events. john: patient don't know about this. >> what would help is if we are the customers. then the providers chase you. john: when i argue that people say we can't afford this. only the rich would get good care. >> i don't know where they think the money is coming from. we are spend $800,000 per life. if people think they are not paying for that, they are kidding themselves. john: i complained the machines beeped at night and the nurse would come in or not come in and

say, oh, old batteries. someone wrote to cam plain about the customer mentality. >> you can't sleep in the hospital with all the beeping and the lights are on, the florescent lights that are in your eyes. how are you supposed to get better if you can't sleep and don't get good food. john: food compared to the surgery? >> there is no part of the economy where good service would mean more in producing the end product. when my son's appendix burst, filling out the same form over and over again made him sicker. john: let's go back on why we had that "virginia hav -- ask hy

slogan. duringer king ran that campaign because mcdonald's made it tough for customers to customize their burger. so burger king said ... >> we can serve your bigger any way you think it's proper, have it your way. john: competition made them better, but people scream at me and say you can't compare it. medicine is much more complex than hamburgers. >> the medicine is standard. if somebody come plains of certain symptoms, we know what tests we are going to do and what the treatment will be. it's trying to figure out which one is the best for that person. but there is more to a hospital than just figuring out the diagnosis and treating. you can't tell a patient don't move until this catheter is removed and someone will be with you in a half-hour.

and nobody comes for 8 hours and they are sitting around and they are increasing the risk for blood clots and other complications. john: michelle wrote, stop whining. do you think an m.d. has time to respond to patient's email? >> i give every patient my cell phone and email. john: they bug you. >> they do, but that's my job. he every industry would love to have a pass like that. for $3 trillion it's oh da it'ss okay to expect the health industry to have the same customer service as other industry. john: in a free market stossel would be dead. in a premarket i would have gotten better care, which wouldn't be dead.

another one. let's see him negotiate the price of chemo when he's in the ambulance on the way to the hospital. >> this is something i do all the time which is bizarre. no one who has said this has actually been in our healthcare system it's so impossible to figure out how to get approval for things you need even during an emergency. in a consumer-driven system where the providers are competing to get customers, you do less work, not more work. >> you wouldn't make the decisions in the ambulance. would you know which hospital was cheaper or better. john: lots of americans want government to take over healthcare like it does in much of the world. >> get the private insurance company out of there. john: michael moore made a movie about that. he claimed government healthcare was better than profit-seeking business.

i pointed out when profit is involved, people innovate. >> cell phones are better than i used to get. >> you know what i say to people? when are they going to invent a cell phone? john: progressionives' hatred of the free market is so bad they can't acknowledge what the market does. the pride of the soient bloc. -- of the soient bloc. it -- the soviet bloc *. but it's an awful car. it pollutes heavily. this is the best governments

could produce. don't even use those for examples. >> i understand why some people don't like the government running things. but the government used to be really good at things. >> if the government is so good at giving all this care, why are patients coming from england here because they can't get an mri scan for 9 months. we get patients from canada who say i don't want to wait 9 months to fix my knee or shoulder. i need this fixed now. john: lasik eye surgery and cosmetic surgery is consumer driven. the customer always pays the bill directly. so they advertise. some of the ads are tacky. but so what? >> do you have the "e" factor?

you owe it to yourself to come she dr. e. lasik eye surgery prices have dropped because of this competition. and the doctors compete to offer superior customer service. john: you have movies in the waiting room. >> our typical waiting time is less than five minutes. people will not stay, they have choices. john: your practice operates that way? >> absolutely. john: how long is your waiting time? >> in the waiting room? five minutes or less. but that's my choice. i decide i would rather give better care and make less money and be happy at the end of the day with how i was treating people. >> increasingly people have high deductible plans. they are realizing unless they get really sick, i'm paying my

healthcare out of pocket. obamacare has made it more difficult. but it's a trend that can make us see how much potential there is for competition, choice and the things we value. service, quality, value. john: hope for things to get better. thank you. coming up. i'll fight with the doctor about obamacare and fight with one of these personal injury lawyers. >> we want to get you as much money as possible. john: this 15-year-old will explain how the fda tried to kill him. some more good news. in spite of government there will be is some cool new medical technology coming like a way to technology coming like a way to uber your doctor.

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>> we want to get you as much money as possible, as fast as possible. >> get the money you deserve for your injuries. >> call me right now. john: those ads help pay my salary. and sometimes they get

compensation for real victims. but as a consumer reporter i have to say i hate those lawyers. for every person they help, they hurt dozen of people. here's why. first i should bring out our personal injury lawyer guest and let him explain why he's a good guy. when people are injured, you get them money and that's a good thing. and you deter bad behavior. >> if they deserve it, i think it many a good thing. john: don't you agree you make everything cost more? >> no, i don't. if somebody gets injured they have the right to be compensated for their injuries. john: but you guys take so as much. you take 30% to 40% of the money, add in the defense lawyer costs and add in the unnecessary tests that get done because

people are scared of you. you make everything more expensive. >> but the person who has been injured recovers, and they deserve to recover. do they walk away? do they grin and bear it? does the person who has a brain damaged child as a result of somebody's negligence? do they take it on the chin? i don't think so. john: you kill people by denying us good things. a company came up with a safer is best. another with an aid vaccine and lyme disease vaccine and they dropped the research because they were afraid of being sued. >> i heard this but i don't believe it. what you asked me to come out here about was defensive medicine, and the doctors in their surveys say it's defensive

medicine because of the lawyers. the only r only problem is the government have done their own studies, not surveys. surveys, they ask the doctor, and the doctor goes, it's the lawyers. these are real studies. the studies said the ama that their surveys were unreliable and the more likely cause was the income they produce from doing the test. john: no doctor does unnecessary tests because they are scared of being sued to cover their rear? >> that's lawyer's question. i'm sure we can find a doctor who somewhere along the way in his life had an experience with a lawsuit and as a result may practice defensive medicine. but that's a long way away from saying all the defensive medicine out there is practiced. reason doctors are doing unnecessary tests is because of lawyers.

john: on your website you say your biggest verdict, $40 million. >> that was a structured settlement for a grievously damaged child. john: a child with cerebral palsy. john: john edwards made these cases famous. he used to say to the jury, i'm channeling the baby. i hear her, she is saying, doctors, i'm suffocating please help me be born. and juries awarded lots of money. what's the result? are you making it better for these children? c-sections have gone from 6% of all births to 30% of all births. you are causing more c-sections which are more dangerous and more pain new and more expensive. you are hurting people.

>> i know one thing, when this child went through what this child went through, and a normal child became a brain damaged child, you think that child deserves that money on so many different levels you can't manage it. that was a knock down drag outlayup. what they did to that child was horrific and no amount of money will ever make that mother whole and ever maybe that child whole. john: doesn't it bother you that c-sections have gone from% to 30%? >> it does. the doctors blame it lawyers. but i know for one thing, doctors don't like sitting there for 24 hours going through labor. once they do the c-section they are done, they are gone, they are out on the golf course and it's over. and by the way, they charge more for the c-section.

so there may be many more factors involved. john: doctors are after the money. >> i don't want to say that. john: your colleagues' ad focus on the money. >> i'll squeeze them forker dime i can. er single dime. i'm jim the hammer. >> i was in pain and he changed my pain to rain. john: you rain money down on people. >> you know what? we don't kill people, certainly not a quarter million a year. john: i think you kill people by depriving us of innovation. but we won't settle that here. thank you, david paris for coming up. i'll fight with a doctor who says obamacare is a good thing.

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>> land mine -- john: that was her present explaining how obama care would reduce the cost of health care and give everyone health insurance. it's been six years since the law passed here to never understood how government mandate could get more people insurance for less money. it sounded like magic and it hasn't happened. more people got coverage but the cost are up so high that now some big insurance companies are dropping out of the obama carrots changes. still lots of people say obama carries a good thing. dr. bill jordan says that. he's with the pro-obamacare physicians group. so costs are out. >> understand the people are struggling with the cost of their health care but this is a problem that started way before obamacare. the prices have gone up over decades and obamacare has

actually shown signs of slowing the growth of health care costs. >> we have a great answer to that and looking at this i don't see any slowing of the growth and now i'm reading that there are going to be premium hikes of 30%, 20% next year plus there's this medical device tax. so many new innovative devices do we not have? device makers have been hit or you. >> let's talk about the medical device tax verse. the real problem is people don't have access to basic care. it's not that they don't have access to devices. i think the people have the choice that drives prices down. with obamacare there is less choice. every plant is goldplated comic even the cheapest bronze plan that everyone has to have free access of a morning after bill. alcohol screening, aspirin used to prevent heart disease.

aspirin costs 8 cents a tablet. why does your insurance plan have to cover this? obesity screening. >> i think a lot of people went from having no insurance to having insurance and that was -- john: goldplated cadillac insurance. >> now many people have goldplated insurance. i can tell you about a woman who took care of my kid to daycare. the daycare was too small to afford health insurance for their employees. we found out that she was dropping out of 14 there. it turned out unfortunately she had breast cancer and she hadn't had insurance. she was earning too much to qualify for medicaid so she dropped out of the workforce so she could go on medicaid and get treatment for cancer. this was before obamacare. it's really sad to see that kind of thing happen and people now have choices. if they are in too much to be on medicaid they can go to the marketplace and find insurance. john: they could go into a limited obama dictated

marketplace and by an expensive insurance. >> aggregates still too expensive but faced with the option of not having insurance i think people are overall ahead. john mackey support going further. you would like to see single-payer like much of the world has, like canada has. >> i think it's a very efficient system. you get everyone in the system was low at ministry of overhead. there are a lot of advantages to it. john: government-run systems canada and england, people have to wait longer for treatment. >> care is rationed here in the u.s. and a lot of people don't have basic access. their access to care is the emergency room. john: i look at these headlines in the british paper, and other national health service for story. dying elderly cancer patient left screaming in pain for nine hours. the british goal is to treat you for months after diagnosis, four months and they are not even meeting that standard.

>> a lot of those problems that come with cuts over the last decade so in the health care system in the u.k. and that's why you get those horror stories. john: i got this graph from the world health organization and per-person government health spending, i don't think -- the trend is up. >> write to trend is up with the aging population they have likely have here here in the u.s. the cost have been rising so they haven't been investing as much as they need to. john: thank you dr. jordan. next, why this young man had to leave america to get the treatment that probably saved his life. these little guys? they represent blood cells. and if you have afib - an irregular heartbeat that may put you at five times greater risk of stroke - they can pool together in the heart, forming a clot that can break free, and travel upstream to the brain where it can block blood flow and cause a stroke. but if you have afib that's not caused by a heart valve problem,

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they tried to get the drug but they couldn't. they live in america, arizona and america's food and drug administration fda said no you may not take that drug. so diego what did she family do? >> they moved my family to london england where we lived for nine months to get this treatment. john: and its working? >> at the moment i am cancer-free. john: is a scene where they had to leave the country? >> it's very odd. the nurses rally surprised that we were american and we were in london getting medical treatment because they always thought that america must be ahead in every medical field. john: america may be ahead but there are certain things the government says you may not have what do you think about that? >> i think that patients and families should be allowed to

make their own informed medical decisions. john: moeed too. diego stay with us for a broader perspective on all of this. let's turn to paul howard of the manhattan institute which has begun something called project fda. >> it's a group of policy experts and economists who look at how we regulate drug development today. the system we have is about 50 years old dates back to 1962 and i don't think anybody looks at the system today and says if we started from scratch today we would do it that way. it's extremely efficient and highly expensive. john: you mentioned the laws started in 62. let's look at how the fda got to be so powerful. one reason u.s. drug laws are so strict, goletta mind. >> every woman must be aware that it's important to check the medic and -- medicine cabinet. john: dozens of women who did

take thalidomide gave birth to children no arms and no legs. america said thank goodness for the fda, there protecting us. your tolerance for risk is probably low. if you are patient is facing a life-threatening or disabling disease as diego is your tolerance is very high. we have different rules for cars to drive on racetracks and on their way to the grocery story. for patients we should be taking as many risks as we can getting informed consent of the patients collect the information as we go and do things at work. john: also it's my body. don't i have a right to try something if i want to? >> if you have the right to die you have the right to try. we have a culture that says we don't think you should take these risks that the patient is the best person to say i'm willing to take that risk. john: a lot of the resistance to the fda began with the epidemic.

a lot of people said you were killing us. let's try this stuff. that was when americans began making up to the fact that they don't just protect us, they kill us too. the fda responded to that with this commercial it made for itself. >> the job of the food and drug demonstrations to make sure these drugs are used responsibly it takes too long to get a drug approved in all market on the other hand consumer groups often complain that fda approves drugs to quickly and without adequate. so fda is caught in the middle and that is as it should be. it's a delicate balancing act always weighing risks against health benefits. john: it sounds reasonable. they are in the middle. a delicate balance. if you are cancer patient or a 1992 you were an aids patient you didn't want an agency in the middle. he wanted one who is on your side and let the fda did in response to these activists and

we owe them a german instead of gratitude under enormous pressure drove a tunnel for the regulations and created the system that i was proposing that gives patients fast access to experimental drugs colon the outcome. now we have conquered aids and we have got to the point where we can take a single bill once a day that keeps a disease that used to be a death sentence and check for decades. john: for aids there was a lobby that people like diego and i will give you the last word, they couldn't do that. >> terminal patients don't have any hope so these potentially lifesaving treatments are just giving hope where there is no hope to begin with. john: how dare they deny people that. thank you diego and paul. the government in protecting protecting us often does its best to kill us. next come the good news. in spite of government entrepreneurs are making health care better.

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john: anytime we are sick it's usually a pain.

they won't take questions by e-mail. it's hard to get a doctor on the phone so many americans just go to the emergency room and there they often wait for hours, maybe picking up a new disease from other sick people. if they get a prescription they have to go to the pharmacy and probably wait again but now a new company says it has a better idea. if you have a health problem use this phone app to text or videoconference with a nurse or if your problem is more serious a doctor. they will tell you what they think you should do and if they can't do it via the internet they will come to your house. sarah mueller is a nurse who makes those housecalls and andrew komer. >> i'm the executive vice president of marketing. john: how much is the patient pay? >> the patient pays in that sense, the patient just pays for the actual visit so they may pay $100 for physical or $200 for

the actual outcome. john: most of the cases you saw without having anybody do a house call 60% conversation via tax. >> you press a button and within seconds you can chat with their nurse and there in there are couple of routes. not every case we can solve for so we want to make sure we get you on the best path as quickly as possible so you sometimes people need to go to the er but in the cases we can solve 60% of the time we will solve that over the phone. it could be in a video, could be over the phone and 40% of the time we believe that it's best served by coming to the house. john: so sarah you go to the house. what mostly do you do? >> as a nurse for pager i delivered flu shots into electric screenings, we call them house chats. john: when you show up u-haul to send? >> i have a backpack here that i take with me.

someone can request a visit for a flu shot and i will take the backpack he we have a bag of medications on the side, mostly antibiotics and achievements for infections. commonly we see upper respiratory infections especially during the fall and winter seasons so the flu, strep throat, sinusitis, common things that people donate to good emergency room for. john: how many housecalls that they made? >> i have made hundreds of housecalls between flu shots, definitely a spike in that in the fall and winter season, health screenings that i do and then i do care testings or urinary tract infections, upper respiratory. we do insulin tests and strep test. everything is done at the bedside on i ran. john: so they don't have to wait in line at the pharmacy either. you have the delivery service for prescriptions. >> we have made it as simple as possible. we partner with a group who

helps us with actual prescription deliveries. is it drug is the name of the company. imagine this, you hit a button and within seconds you are connected. within 60 minutes you are receiving care from your couch or your office in some cases and within another 50 minutes we -- john: you think you are keeping people out of the emergency room. >> we are. kind of the misuse of the entire system. people good emergency room as a solution because they don't know what else to do. what pager provides his immediate access and actually 1.8 ilya dollars is spent in the er and nine out of 10 of those cases could be solved in the urgent care setting or something that costs usually a fraction of the cost of the er. in emergency room bed to wait in line and they might need to go to the emergency room but it creates part of the problem where people are waiting for a long time. but pager represents is an easier way to simplify that

process. john: are you profitable? >> we are still a startup job so i would say we have the road to profitability. john: did luck to you. sarah and andrew thank you for joining us. there are lots of other high-tech innovations being developed. they should make medicine better so next let's take on the socialist fantasies of people like michael moore and hillary clinton. clinton. >> single-payer would have lower

♪ ♪ clinton. >> single-payer would have lower it was always just a hobby. something you did for fun. until the day it became something much more. and that is why you invest. the best returns aren't just measured in dollars.

td ameritrade. john: get a grip stossel come at the hospital. ranting about your customer service, get over yourself. that was a facebook post from someone named melissa. a lot of people were angry at me for writing that column which says while my medical care was excellent the hospital's customer service stunk. basically people said what a jerk they saved his life and he complained. and they have a point. just a few weeks later here i am back at work. i lost half of the long but i'm hardly in pain and i'm grateful that i got good medical care. but i'm a consumer reporter. i don't get why the rest of experience can't be good too. why do anxious patients have to wait pointlessly, endlessly so often?

why in the hospital do we have to fill out the same form, first name medical history again and again. by kent hospitals use modern technology like texting and e-mail? because they don't care if they don't e-mail or if the patient has to wait because the customer is not made. it's the patient. the hospital's customer is the one who pays the bills of that's almost someone else would usually government or private insurance company. hospitals compete to please them not me. real consumer pleasing competition happens only when the customer has skin in the game, when we pay for most of our care ourselves. and we deal directly with a doctor in the doctor worries about making our experience better, not just reading my illness. but that can't work or medicine complained readers posting comments about my article. health care is too expensive day they said. most people couldn't afford their own care.

who would pay the nurses and the staff and keep the hospital running? well excuse me, who do you think pays them now quick picks government and insurance companies don't make health care free. government takes it from us. third-party payments just hide the cost, increase the cost. of course politicians like costs. i'm not surprised that are likely next president was enthusiastic about single-payer fully government-run health care. hillarycare. >> single-payer would have lower costs and one of the reasons the president has a provision in his approach that guarantees safe single-payer is to permit states that are able to do that to start down the single-payer road create. john: progressives, love that idea. get the private health insurance

company out there. john: progressives say that's why canada's government-run system is better. health care is free but free comes with a cost not just in tax money but limits on service. before obamacare canadian to doctor told me he hates the way his patients must wait for their free care. >> if you want to see your narrow it just no problem you just have to wait six months. you want an mri, no problem. free as the air, you just have to wait six months. john: come on say most progressives most canadians get good health care health care and so what if they wait in line. >> that's a line where they live three years longer than we do. that's the one i want to be in. john: it's true canadian to many europeans live longer than americans. americans use that statistic to slammer system that is deceitful. those people live longer not because they are health care system is superior but because

they are different from us. they drive cars less often. there are fewer accidents. they shoot each other less often than they are also less like the to be. i confronted moore about that. >> in america we kill each other more often. we shoot each other and we have more car accidents. john: more of us look like you. i will say in part it's because they never have to worry about paying to see the doctor. >> they live longer because they don't worry? it's nice not to worry but that won't save your life. there is so much more innovation in the free market and many canadians live as long as they do only because they freeload off of america's innovation. however we did find one pocket of free-market medicine in canada. clinics that offer lifesaving technology and they have an alliance.

>> if i see a patient that is torn cruciate ligament, we can generally have the patience scheduled within probably a week john: but you have to bark or me out to get this kind of treatment. if you want a ct scan in canada that clinics can get a dog in the next day. for people the waiting list is. >> many clients will come here with their patzert as they are leaving they say the next time i get sick i want to come here. i want to go to the regular hospital. john: i don't want to go to kansas hospitals either but the government is in charge. long lines and someone else decides to get even get treatment. we should decide for ourselves and this is a market competition will bring us better choices. choice always is people power. that drives down costs and produces better care.

i know which system i want. that's our show. thanks for watching. good night from new york. [♪] kennedy: oh, mercy, welcome aboard. last show of the week. let's make it fantastic. i am watching hillary clinton who had it up to her in the toughest part of her campaign as she battled a consider mish on two fronts. she is the meat in a man's sandwich as they squeeze her like a thigh master to try to get her out of the race. donald trump has been going after her the last few weeks saying she is crooked as the colorado river and nasty as a hornet.