thanks for joining us. good night from new york. [♪] kennedy: the first shots were fired yesterday morning at pulse night club in orlando. the story became a exercise. our two presidential hopefuls lunged at their talking points. trump were tweeted out what happened in orlando is only the beginning. i sculd and ask for the ban. must be tough. >> i believe weapons of war have no place on our street. we have to make it harder for

people who should not have those weapons of war. and that may not stop every shooting or every terrorist attack. but it will stop some and it will save lives, and it will protect our first responders. kennedy: it's easy to get caught up in emotion and figure out why and how something like this happens so it never happens again. the acts of terror seem to have the same hallmark. self-radicalized muslim shooters. so as donald trump screams for a temporary ban on muslim immigration, hillary talks but gun control. 300 people packed a gay nightclub for a latin night

party, targeted by an american. this was a gun-free zone. if you limit gun ownership for reasonable i dults. why would someone who could end the lives of four dozen ever abide by such do goodery. that putrid and cowardly terrorist who was a known quantities as hateful to his family and co-workers. political correctness and intelligence failure has added up to the deadliest mass shooting in our nation's history. waving a magic wand does nothing to bring back the sweet souls whose lost lives should not add up to the death of freedom. ambassador john bolton tells me

why he thinks the orlando shooting represents something bigger and much worse. glad you are here with me, i'm kennedy. how should america react to the horrible shooting in orlando and what steps should we take to prevent this from happening in the future. julie roginsky is here. matt welch is "reason" magazine editor-in-chief. julie, ways wrong with the reaction from our two presumptive nominees? >> we were talking about this earlier. everybody has an agenda here. either you want more gun control in which case you talk about the guns or you want a ban on muslims or you talk about what donald trump is talking about. the reality is nobody waited even 24 hours to mention the

fact that you had 50 people dead. 50 people who were there to celebrate i assume pride month and express the fact they were there in a safe space for them. in a place where they felt the freedom to express themselves. i spoke to a few gay friends the past 24 hours, and each of them said what attracts them to go to gay clubs is not necessarily to meet somebody, but a place where they can gene be themselves -- where they can be themselves. we always say there is never a good time to talk about gun control because there is a shooting every day. know nobody needs an ar-15 to go hunting. kennedy: no one needs a v-12

engine but which won't begrudge that for someone. i don't want to make it a gun control issue. what i do want to talk about is the need forward some much control in the first place? that's so unsettling. and the first thing that is the casualty when people emerge from the fog is our basic liberties. >> this is true any time there is any kind of crisis. our two presidential nominee have a reflex to clench and control things. this happened after 9/11, you get the patriot act. this happened after the financial crisis. you get dodd-frank. wee saying we need to do something. sometimes they will say it doesn't matter what that something is. we need the illusion we are doing something. those things tend to be

something we regret and tend to undo. how long have we tried to undo the tsa. charlie cook had a great point. this is a situation in which the u.s. citizen committed this crime. donald trump said we need ban immigration. on the left is a question of this guy passed background checks so we'll use this as an excuse to get background checks. we are so programmed to have our go-to policy responses in this and we don't take a breath and say can we just talk about i can't believe this bastard did this. kennedy: we don't talk about the victims. it's let's reach into our bag of talking points and pull something out so we can have more power. >> i completely agree with everything matt just said. i think that was perfect. when there are things like someone is planning something out like this.

these crazy people when they write man fess toes and go out with the -- manifestos and go out to do something like this. like you said, everyone wants to take their pet project. i think it reason why the gun control advocates love to talk about gun control in these times is these are the on times they get any traction going because it's an argument purely from emotion and they try to prey on emotion. kennedy: they don't get any traction going after sandy hook. so there will be no traction after this. the bottom line is this is the on country in the world where it keeps happening over and over. there has to be a correlation for the ease with which it happens. kennedy: the murder rate went up in australia when they banned begun. in europe they have the

strictest gun control ve the highest murder rates. julie: with this weapon you can kill somebody in seconds. at which point do you say stop. kennedy: you need a pressure cooker. people like this take all the guns away. people like this will find a way to murder a bunch of people. >> it's important to point out the ar-15 which hillary clinton says she thinks should be banned. kennedy: she called eight weapon of war. >> this gun is legal in germany and france and the czech republic. eth yet this is a common and popular weapon. so we should be clear what we are talking about here. kennedy: earlier today donald trump addressed the orlando shooting while delivering an anti-terrorism speech in new hampshire where he repeatedly said he will impose a muslim immigration ban.

>> the on reason the killer was in america in the first place is because we aloud his family to come here. we have a dysfunctional immigration system which does not permit us to know who we let into our country and it does not permit us to protect our citizens properly. kennedy: to me this is just as frustrating as a ban on guns. banning people for their religious beliefs. how can you possibly prove that. >> it would be difficult in practice to prove that. but the idea that a terrible thing happened so now we are going to take away the freedoms of a large group of people is horrible. i don't even understand this idea. if he want to retroactively ban muslims. the first generation is a problem with something sympathies toward terrorism. what are we going to do about that? kennedy: by that definition, you could ban my mom.

she is from romania and calvin coolidge thought eastern europeans should be banned. but that's the rationale. you cannot defend the second amendment and a kri fights the 4th, it doesn't make any sense. that's part of the problem i have. there is this anti-constitutionalism pervasive in this presidential race. julie: donald trump says muslims have to work with us, they know what's going on. all muslims in america according to donald trump are complicit in terror and they know what's going on. essentiallily he's saying he's going to come and get the hundreds of thousands of muslims who live across this country because they are complicit in terrorism. kennedy: four dozen people killed in a nightclub, she would make sure there are drone

strike. >> when hillary clinton says she want a ban on assault weapons, she is fine with radical groups having them and police officers having them. >> donald trump and hillary clinton both said in different range wage we need to close down parts of the internet and shut down their ability to talk about these things online. kennedy: they are both bad on the first amendment, she is bad on the second, she is bad on the 14th. my panel returns later. but first ambassador john bolton joins me with a warning the orlando shooting is a symptom of something much bigger. we are going to

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esurance, an allstate company. click or call. kennedy: omar mateen blend his allegiance to isis but the president says he planned the massacre by himself. >> at this stable we see no clear evidence he was directed externally. it does appear that at the last minute he announced allegiance to isil. but there is no evidence so far that he was in fact directed by

them and there is no direct evidence he was part of a larger plot. kennedy: how should the united states handle isis. joining me is ambassador john boon. let's talk about the terrorist attack. it's yet another one on the president's watch. first when we saw these things happening he refused to call them terror attacks. is this a failure of his administration? >> i think it many a failure of his word view as well. it doesn't matter whether he uses the phrase radical islamist terrorist. the magic word don't change anything except to the extent they signify the real threat which is an idea long cal threat by people who have a version of islam that goes beyond religion, and it's a three autocratic view of life fundamentally contrary

to the united states constitution. unless you understand that idea long cal basis for the threat, you can't be effective in dealing with it. kennedy: i don't disagree with that. i think he's done a very poor job of explaining it. and how it can morph into something this deadly and murdererrous and constant. i take issue with something you wrote earlier about lone wolves. i think it's important to understand how these people exist and how they are inspired. i don't think there was some operative at isis giving this ghie guy som d giving this guy t of direction.

i think he out out information and act on it and isis takes credit later. >> isis global headquarters is not a bunch of suit following an organization chart. they are much more creative than many of our intelligence a law enforcement in using digital communications and social media to persuade and direct what people do. i thought the president's statement you led this segment with isous. it's it -- to assert there is a difference between a direct written order from isis and somebody who acts on their own -- kennedy: you would contrast what

happened on 9/11 and in paris with the coordination there with someone who is seemingly uncoordinated. inspired? yes. radicalized and islamic? yes to all of those. but you have to agree it' vastly different in execution. >> i think that make the terrorist threat worse because it's by definition more random. kennedy: how do you squash it? if we are in up a post modern and i that someone like this can be inspired that action at a distance. how do you go that distance. we only have 15 seconds. >> you have to decide that you are facing an ideology. you need a military strategy internationally. you need a political strategy, and you cannot treat this as a series of one-off incident.

this is an armed ideology determined to destroy our way of life. kennedy: coming up. liberals are calling for gun control regulation in the wake of orlando. and i'll talk to a proponent of such control. a little later the cia

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call or go online today to switch to x1. kennedy: president obama and other liberals have called for assault weapons bans. gun control advocate mark blaze

is the president of the campaign to unload and the executive director for every town for gun safety. obviously in the face of this tragedy we want to come together and make sense of it. one of the easiest things to do is demonize the common elements that we see. i understand the emotional desire to get rid of all guns. but i have to think for a guy who is clearly mentally unstable and radicalized by himself or through other forces, and all those things come together, if there were no guns in the world, i'm confident this person would have found a way to murder dozens of people. >> you might be right but it would have bench harder to do. you and i would agree generally we would like government out of our business. but two what is we would want the government in our business

is keeping you and me safe and our nation secure. guns turn hatred deadly. kennedy: i know you have expressed interest in going after gun manufacturers. you talk about the millions of guns in american homes. the majority of americans have guns in their homes. how do you go about taking all those guns away from law-biding citizens? >> we don't. what we advocate is the fact that everybody agrees with, a they will trial as well. the second amendment goes hand in hand with reasonable steps to keep guns out of the wrong hands. my dad was a gun dealer, we had lots of guns, he never did anything bad with them and i have no interest in taking them away from him. but assault weapons are the weapons used in almost every

mass shooting. congress has repeatedly shot down legislation that would close what we call the terror gap. if the f.b.i. has you on its hawaii radar screen and you can't board an airplane because you are too dangerous, you shouldn't be able to buy a gun. that might have stopped this shooter from getting this gun. kennedy: just being named in an f.b.i. investigation is not enough to preclude you from legally buying a gun. as you remember in the heller supreme court case, a person has a natural right to own a gun. that's a natural right. that's not something priend by the government. and being on a terror list is such a nebulous and vague thing. there is no way of knowingq if or why you are on -- of knowing if or why you are on one.

if you are a constitutionally protected natural right that requires due process, and there is no due process with the terror watchlist, there is the gap that you cited is such a massive disconnect, it tramples on basic civil liberties. >> first all, the heller decision was written by justice scalia. he said you have a right to own a gun in your home for self defense. he said you can have the longstanding restrictions we have lad in the past in this country and that includes an assault weapons ban. kennedy: the term assault weapons we know was created by the anti-gun lobby. that is a nebulous and vague phrase meant to scare people, and if you include anything that is quote-unquote semi-automatic, that means you would have in other guns available to people

except for revolvers. somewhat we are talking about is guns where you can fire as fast as you can pull the trigger and we are talking about high-capacity magazines. police don't have that kind of fire power. there is an argument civilians shouldn't either. back to the civil liberties question. it is the case that there are some people on terror watchlists who should not be. but the legislation recognizes that. i think on balance government -- >> people on the terror list and tried to get off, these are law-biding citizens who had many areas of their lives turned upside down. in this case we are talking about beam who lost their lives not just because of guns, and it's politically convenient for gun control people to try to politicize so quickly in the face of this terrorist murder. or that i think it's a flat argument. and that sort of convenience

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kennedy: the f.b.i. already interviewed shooter omar mateen three times before sat days massacre. >> we will work all day and all night to understand the path to that terrible night. we are also going to look hard at our own work to see if there is something we should have done differently. the honest answer is i don't think so. i don't see anything in reviewing our work that our agents should have done differently but we'll look at it

in an open and honest way and be transparent with it. kennedy: we turn to mike baker. we spoke earlier today on "outnumbered" on the fox news channel about this. but i want to talk about the f.b.i. they talked to him three times and still he eluded their radar and was able to perpetrate the deadliest u.s. shooting in our nation's history. was there an intelligence failure? >> no. what there is is a disconnect between what people imagine there to be in the way law enforcement works in part because there has been and lot of talk in the past couple years about law enforcement overreach. people imagine law enforcement investigations just happen and we can surveil whoever we want. the reality is as painfully as is shown in this case, the

f.b.i. has to follow very set protocols about how long they can carry out a preliminary investigation, when they can open up an active file. how long that can go on for. what sort of processes and evidence is required to go through each step. if they don't have the evidence and don't have information that is sufficient to say we can now continue on this path, they have got to shut it down. and there is good reasons for that. we don't want law enforcement just doing whatever they want to do. so there are parameters. kennedy: i understand that. you have a cop who worked with this kid who is clearly deranged who was stalked by him when he brought up the fact he was as officer gilroy claimed him to be unstable and unhinged. police are actually pretty good judges of character. so if he's going to the guy's employer who is giving this

idiot a gun to be a private security officer and they don't do anything about it, that's a failure right there. >> that's the failure of an employment situation. i'm not disagreeing with the notion -- kennedy: it's not just one guy who turn faces with someone like that. the f.b.i. asked him about statements he made about having connections to al qaeda and hezbollah. >> if it doesn't reach a certain thresh showed established by -- this a very important conversation to have. this is the sort of thing that can be adjusted. you can widen the playing field in terms of how they will conduct their investigation and what they can and can't do. but at the same time you can't deny other side enough to bemoan an overreaching government that's got too much leeway and how they look at hair citizens. what they are allowed to do, that's what they did.

kennedy: i don't think more spying is the answer. maybe we are relying too much on our massive surveillance net. maybe we need more human intelligence. you have got two murderers who come out of the sake mosque maybe the net is too broad. >> it's what you are talking about. when you say -- you have got to have more leeway for law enforcement, we are not talking about to have a drone overhead. we are talking about what you are saying. having an active investigation where you can follow someone and talk to their family and continue the interview monitoring process. that's part and parcel of this. if the rules are set. so you have got a narrow playing field, this is the consequence of the pendulum going back and forth. kennedy: thelang field is not narrow. the idea that we don't have enough surveillance is a false argument.

>> how do you want to get this guy? if you don't have continued monitoring and active investigation into this character, what are you going to do and how are you going to stop this? >> we have to have a conversation and intestified spying on everyone you are spying on people like this. one of the problems civil libertarians have on this is the warrantless searches. the grab of data the f.b.i. is given more tour reach in and grab emails. >> to get somebody like this. you are not going to be able to design a system that says this one person here. the bureau -- you are talking about restructuring investigative powers. and you are not talking about investigative powers for this one case. you are talk about for any investigation. when you have a target that comes across the radar screen. i'm not disagreeing. this is a very important conversation that can come out

of this horrible shooting. this attack. is what we are talking about right now. the gun control is the easy one. that's where politics always go. if we want to minimize future attacks we have to think about how we carry out investigation. kennedy: go after the bad ones. this i think you can airgs an intelligence failure. these are the people we need to go after. not everyone. no agency can vet every single muslim immigrant who might come into this country. we do have to have a mature conversation about this. that's why i always turn to you. >> that was mature. kennedy: we may have our subtle disagreements, but in the end. so as much love. >> they are subtle. kennedy: coming up, our panel returns. when the 9/11 reports are released, will they blame saudi

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kennedy: cia chief john brennan says he thinks the unreleased portion of the 9/11 losht released soon and he thinks they will clear saudi arabia. julie, i share your assessment saudi arabia is the worst. i don't know why administration after administration is lured into bed with these guys. julie: it's called oil, baby. kennedy: we have oil. we can fraict and stack it.

julie: you had hillary clinton use saudi arabia as an example of a country who funds people who fund terrorism. she essentially said they are complicit in a lot of bad stuff across the world. kennedy: not when they were writing the checks to the clinton foundation. julie: the coddling of saudi arabia from both parties is completely anathema to anything we are stand for. we are fix eight on iran as the great devil of the middle east and they are. bust saudis aren't much better. the turks at least until this president came in and tried to work with us and tried to work with the west. the turks have never acknowledged the genocide. kennedy: why are they still classifying these 28 pages?

they released the report in late 2002. it's 2016. >> there is something in there they don't want people to see. the words saudi arabia. those from the words they don't want you to see. they are a treasures ally. they are smart about getting themselves in our business when we are doing things the middle east. they make themselves invaluable to us and they exert pressure. for them to look back. that's why we do it. kennedy: i don't buy that they are going to divest themselves in american securities. they would take their own economy. i think they are blustery. smith, what do you think? >> maybe you are right about that. i do disagree that it's morally reprehensible that we work with these people. the only thing i would disagree with you on is i think they are

far worse than iran by the treatment of their own people and military aggression by their own neighbors. any time when we get -- when we want a war, obama is upset about 20 yazidis on a mountaintop. but with the saudis we hear nothing. >> our cia director is in saudi arabia talking to them. kennedy: he's not talking to the a.p. or "new york times." >> it's something they are shielding from us as american citizens. julie: this is the government that called somebody in our government and got bin laden's family out of the country after 9/11. they consistently downplayed t role saudi arabia played in 9/11. kennedy: we do have more with

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kennedy: susan sarandon is lashing out at fellow liberal elizabeth warren. when warren tweeted out about reining in wall street, sarandon quoted is this suppose to be eye --to be ironic?

>> susan sarandon is like the japanese pilots strand on some island in the pacific and the war is over for two decade and they are waiting for the american surrender. that's what she is. give it up. she prefers donald trump to hillary clinton. that's all i need to know about where they are brain is on bona fides are. kennedy: you call hillary clinton a corporatist war monger. >> it many a factual statement. i completely agree with susan sarandon. to me -- i was a big ron paul supporter. if ron paul had gotten out of the race and endorsed mitt romney or john mccain. he would have lost all credibility. you can't be anti-war then

endorse the war party. you can't be anti-wall street and endorse the wall treated candidate. kennedy: if you look at the list of speeches and the amount of money she has made from giantngs elizabeth wash has given against giant banks, you wonder how can she be endorsing her. >> she is playing politics. elizabeth warren is going to emerge as a much more powerful politician. kennedy: do you think she'll be a vp candidate? >> there is no chance of that. >> i think she is the dark horse. kennedy: tomorrow bernie sanders will meet with hoik and he says he's going to do everything he can to insure trum trump doesn't

about next president. >> bernie will endorse hillary clinton. i feel bad for susan. it's been a bad week for her. this isn't surprising. he's pretty consistently said, the worst thing that could happen is donald trump being president. kennedy: he still thinks he can pete her. >> isn't it ironic he was accusing her of stealing the elect with the superdelegates. now he's asking for them. julie: with every day that passes the democratic party is solidifying. he should have cut his deal a week ago. he should have cut his deal before california and new jersey voted. so in about i would say three weeks ago he was in a good place to cut whatever dial he wanted to cut.

kennedy: he squandered his capital. julie: he should go back to vermont, get some maple syrup. kennedy: he didn't give a presidential speech today. hillary clinton is dressing for the job she won, and she was in front of that big giant flag talking like the president today. >> as soon as california was over, it was over. firing off all kind of staff and he stops doing anything like that. kennedy: is he still eating dinner at 3:00 in the afternoon? >> i presume so. he's fighting for platform language and process reform. kennedy: he want the superdelegates. >> it will be the one chance in three trillion hillary is indicted. i don't know if he will let me. man, how cool is it to be president.

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kennedy: politicians are suggesting bands on guns and bands on muslims. here to help me sort things out is julian sanchez from the cato institute. it's kind scary. you have got two presidential candidates who want to use emotional reactions for blanket bans. which do you think is worse, a temporary ban on muslim immigration or eventual ban occur tailment of gun ownership.

>> would you rather be shot or poisoned? i suppose the answer would be more disturbing. but they are both fundamental attacks. most importantly, there is no real sense that there is any connection between any of these proposals and something that would have prevented this kind of attack. it's important to ask when something horrific like this happens and our instinct is we have to do something. whether there is a rational connection between what you are proposing. and the actual thing you are trying to prevent. >> there almost never is. when people propose these bans which have awful unintended consequences, there is almost no correlation between what they are suggesting and what just happened. >> so in this case what is the rule that someone is suggesting would have prevented this

licensed security guard from having access to a weapon? someone didn't appear to have a criminal record that would have preclude him from having a weapon. this an american-born citizen. what is the policy that would have prevented him from existing in the country. kennedy: that's something i have been discussing with people. i want to talk about this motion. it's the same thing hat happened with gun control people. it's neocons coming forward saying we don't have enough spying in this country. that simply is not true, is it? >> again, it's hard to imagine what additional authority would have enabled the prevention of this. it may have been done with the inspiration of isis in an indirect way. but we don't have evidence that there was a direct coordination

or orchestration from abroad. as far as we know one disturbed person doing an attack single handedly. spying doesn't help. if the terrorist you are looking for doesn't talk to anyone about his plans. there is no evidence he did. we are already spying on something like 4,000 foreigners -- on 94,000 foreigners. isis personnel that we know of, hair communications are being monitored. it's not feasible to surveil he person who comes on the f.b.i.'s radar even if the f.b.i. looks at them and find no basis for continuing to investigate. we just don't have the resources to do that. >> we are going to have to figure out where we go from here. we'll have to keep talking about civil liberties and make sure in the attempt to keep ourselves safe. we always above all else remain free.

julian, thank you so as much. and thank you for watching. you can follow me on stwitter and instagram. and kennedyfbn@foxbusiness.com. always eager to hear your thoughts. (narrator) imagine, wiping away the appearance of crepey skin. on your arms... (female narrator) on your legs... (male narrator) and even your neck. (female narrator) what would your reaction be? -can i look now? -yes. are you serious? oh my goodness! (female narrator) and now a paid presentation for crepe erase. (male narrator) a breakthrough targeted body treatment brought to you by trusted guthy renker. (female narrator) and featuring emmy award winning actress jane seymour. (male narrator) beloved little house on the prairie actress melissa gilbert. (female narrator) figure skating legend, dorothy hamill. (male narrator) and 12-time olympic medalist dara torres. plus, everyday women whose lives and skin