>> that's not a bad deal these guys. thank you both very, very much. appreciate it. now the cost of freedom. it continues with the best. david azman. keep it right here, the place for business, fox. if you believe that every man, woman, and child in america has the right to affordable health care, join us. bernie sanders and i will work together to make college tuition free for the middle class and debt-free for all. >> free, it's all free. hillary clinton out on the trail this weekend after touting her big government plans at the convention. but her husband had a very different message for america when he was in the white house. take a listen. >> we have work to give the american people, a smaller, less bureaucratic government in washington. and we have to give the american people one that lives within its means.

the era of big government is over. >> wow. quite a contrast. so which clinton message is right for america today? the 1996 bill clinton or the 2016 hillary clinton? hi, everybody, i'm david, welcome to "forbes on fox." let's go in focus to find out with mr. steve forbes, rich, elizabeth mcdonald, michael, john, and bruce. steve, which one is right for america? >> obviously the bill of 1996 and unfortunately he peaked early. but hillary clinton does not realize she is a socialist light. she does not realize the more burdens you put on the economy the less resources are created and everyone suffers for it. bill learned the lesson, forgot it. she never knew it in the first place. >> bruce, she is certainly for bigger government. we look at all of her proposals, $500 billion here, $300 billion there. it adds up to $1.5 trillion in

new spending over ten years. >> well, here's the deal. like her husband, she would pay for her proposals. i think they would be incremental. >> no, no, she wouldn't pay for her proposals. we would pay for her proposals with higher taxes. >> well, we all would. >> the folks trump alleges would be are his peers would pay, billionaires. we don't know if they're peers because he doesn't release tax returns. it would be a mix of tax reforms and new revenue that would pay for it. and that's what bill clinton learned to reduce the deficit, he paid for everything that he did. that's what she would do. >> all right. again, he lowered the capitn'pi gains tax that brought in revenue as well because we had more economic activity. rich, let's look at clinton's surplus. this is back in the 19 -- we call it clinton surplus. remember, he was working with the republican congress but

together they provided this as one of the few surpluses in our history. >> well, that's correct. but we should remind ourselves that bill clinton elected in 1992 was more progressive, his wife tried to nationalize health care in 1993. and that led to a huge backlash. the republicans pulling off a big upset and winning the house of representatives in a 50 plus swing vote in 1994. so from there on, bill clinton had to work with newt gingrich and the republican house. they kept federal spending at below 20% of gdp. and the economy boomed. >> yeah. john, one thing she said last night, it kind of relates to this, that really stuck in me, which was the idea that she said america is great because it's good. which is wrong. america is great because it's free. and it's that freedom that's in jeopardy right now. do you think she will ever get that? anybody can say they're good, but very few countries can say

they're free. >> yeah, she talked a lot about we and what we're going to do. what makes america great is a fierce individualism that allows everyone to live as they want with the federal government -- >> freedom, exactly, freedom. >> to live as they want to. so she missed that point. and the other thing is we've got to remember, government spending is the ultimate tax on the american people because it amounts to politicians removing precious resources from the economy and consuming them. bill clinton was most definitely right, thank goodness he had a congress that worked with him to bring spending down. >> it's all wrong because it's all free stuff. it's all free. we heard her say at the beginning, by the way, she put out a tweet about a month ago about wi-fi. she says, two words, free wi-fi. well, the americans for tax reform figured out that free wi-fi was going to cost us all $275 billion. that's just one free program. >> right. and all those people that talk about how her husband bill gave us that budget surplus also failed to mention how he did

that by taking the social security surplus and throwing it over on the other side of the ledger. in terms of hillary clinton i think she's going to be really hurt this year by the summer olympics in brazil. you talk about progressive policies that she espouses. those are in full force in brazil. they're going to see tremendous poverty down there, tremendous health care, wastes that flows from homes right on to the streets. there's your progressive. >> we've seen it with venezuela. all these free programs, you add them up and eventually you are talking about real money. the whole amount of spending under president clinton was $12.8 trillion. under president bush, $19 trillion, which is still a lot. but look at this, under president obama, 28, and she wants to build on that. >> shovel ready government spending doesn't create middle class jobs. look at what we're dealing with now. households basically home ownership rates at 1965 levels.

household income at 1996 levels. it really doesn't work. you're taking money out of pockets and redistributing it through this gigantic inefficient pump known as the u.s. government. i tell you something, margaret thatcher said something interesting about socialism. it's about the animating vision of optimism. she said socialism is about the spirit of envy. envy does destroys things. it doesn't build things. >> steve, it all comes back to these basic emotions, doesn't it? >> yes, and it's all about getting more and more people dependent on the government and even though that hurts the economy, they don't care. they have the power. that's what this is all about, forget the rhetoric. it's more government power. we pay the price for it. >> rich, which will people go for, the envy that e mack was talking about or the freedom that john and michael are talking about? >> well, i think there's a deep reservoir of people who want to move toward freedom. the republican candidate needs

to do a better job of articulating that and staying focused. but look, you know, the key thing here is not the size of the deficit, it's the ratio of gdp to government spending. if you keep it below 20%, the economy prospers. it did under reagan and it did under bill clinton. >> that's a tricky number because government spending has added to gdp. in other words, the economy gross and government spends more because the government puts out the gdp number that includes government spending. >> bruce, i want to be get back to this basic thing about what people are going to vote for in their gut. you would have to admit, would you not, that if you grow government more you do get less individual freedom. the bigger government is, the more it cuts into our individual freedom. doesn't it? >> well, i don't know -- what i would say, you asked me about the election, i would say she has proven she can can work with people across the aisle. the guy on the other side says he knows it all. and when you talk to economists about -- >> bruce, work with me on this

for a second. when you grow government, don't you lose a bit of individual freedom? isn't that the cost, one of the costs you pay for bigger government? >> well, it could be. depends on how it grows. she could be like her husband and she could add programs and certain other areas and cut them elsewhere. i mean, she's going to work with the other side. and i don't think that the other guy, has proven he can do it. he doesn't want to do it. >> i'm wondering here in this election, what are people more concerned about, losing more of their freedom or getting more things through bigger government? >> i'll answer your question. bigger government is by definition a decrease in freedom. hillary clinton is promising things to the elector rate but she cannot give them. she can only give or congress can only give insofar as they take from others. >> right. >> so when government grows we of course lose our freedom. i hope the electorate doesn't want this. >> my quick last word, the more the government takes the less

freedom we have, no? >> absolutely. and people have just lived through that terrible thing over the last seven years, which is why at this point in time, trump is actually tied with hillary clinton in the polls. >> fascinating stuff. forget the old mainstream media bias, are the new online media companies adopting that same mainstream bias in the race for the white house? well, some here are seeing some trends they don't like. you may not either. that's next.p?p?h

washington. now back to "forbes on fox." >> as donald trump and hillary clinton battle it out, is the new media fix in? someone here is noticing a trend, from leaked dnc e-mails reportedly showing a journalist sending the dnc before sending it to his editor to facebook. blaming its spam filter for blocking postings linked to those leaked e-mails to twitter. the users accusing the social media site of removing #dncleaks from its trending section and

then there was google, blaming a glitch for leaving donald trump off a search result for presidential candidate. so, steve, are all these things just coincidence? >> absolutely not. no surprise, david, if you have a liberal mainstream media, no surprise. the virus is going to go to online media. and so the same kind of mindset. and the thing to keep in mind though is it can be fought. conservatives can fight back. ronald reagan did it when you had a whole monopoly of the liberal media. stop complaining and start fighting. >> you're in silicon valley. do you notice it out there? are they taking on the same media bias the old mainstream media has? >> yes, the bias is there but for different reasons. sill can valley entrepreneurs are very pro trade, pro immigration. the successful companies from scratch. they're not going to change. i agree with steve, when

conservatives start complaining about media bias they've lost the narrative. they need to start articulating a positive reason to have people vote for them. >> john, some of these cases that we mentioned are kind of egregious. you google up presidential candidates and donald trump isn't even there. they have the green party there, they had bernie sanders and hillary but no donald trump. i mean rg that's beyond the pale, is it not? >> the bias surely exists and how we know this is imagine if jeb bush is in cahoots with the rnc to keep down donald trump. >> forget about it. >> a full story last week. outcry that wasn't much this week. it does exists. but i do agree with rich and steve. alternative forms of media. we've got to stop complaining and create or onus. there's opportunity to do so. >> i'll tell you something to complain about. a couple of months ago, google has the little icons, the cartoons very often at the top of the page. a couple of months ago they celebrated this woman. her name was uri cochiama.

japanese-american radical. she died before her 95th birthday. on the occasion of her 95th birthday they posted her. this is a woman who was so radical she applauded osama bin laden. i'm quoting her here. she said, i consider osama bin laden as one of the people i admire. to me, he is in the category of malcolm x, che guevara, patrice lumumba, fidel castro, all leaders that i admire. all terrorists. certainly osama bin laden was. you got to shout out about that, no? >> absolutely right. no question. there's a strong left-leaning media bias in this country. the big story, david, is how donald trump has taken that and turned it upside-down. the man is always in the news, whether it be through tweeting, whether it be through getting interviews. even during the dnc convention. he was out there doing speeches and the attention was on him. he's taken it and he's now in some polls tied or ahead of

hillary. >> i think he's wrong here because that's about donald trump. donald trump is a media star. he gets the immediate attention. but donald trump is not going to be around forever. when he goes away i wonder if the the media biases in the new media is going to be worse than the old. >> trump is an outlier in every single way. this is systemic, a huge problem. facebook admitted they were targeting conservatives in terms of where they were placing their news streams. jack dorsey, cofounder of twitter, so incredibly leftest, an anti-cop, so pro-black lives matter. he doesn't even attempt to hide his bias. >> i got to give a shoutout to mark zuckerberg because he brought in conservatives to balance things. he did that a couple of months ago. bruce, another issue here which may be too in the media weeds but there aren't any editors anymore. stuff goes out there without any editing, no matter which it's left or right, and that's a problem. >> great point because i think

in the more traditional sector you have seasoned editors and journalists. the political thing was a violation of policy. i mean, how many seasoned journalists and editors does facebook have or twitter have or google. i'm guessing not many. and i think it's a big problem. i do want to address the trump ratings. i think he's jumping the sharp. mccain's ratings was 10 million people higher in 2008. >> steve, very quickly. last word from steve. you've been in the media business your whole life. are we in danger of losing responsibility in the medium? >> no, david. it's always out there. you have to fight it back. a message, i was hitting 96 in 2000 when i ran and that's the fact of life. so get that message out there and come up with alternatives. don't be passive and complain. do something about it. >> steve was on both sides of the ledge for a while. thank you. the "cashin' in" gang getting ready. >> nancy pelosi blaming

clinton's struggles on god, guns and gays. we reveal the real likely reasons. plus, donald trump says we need to work with russia to defeat isis. good plan to stomp out the terrorist group for good. see you at 11:30. >> eric, thank you very much. up here first is the summer heat wave too hot for you? well, then just stay home. what the government is telling federal workers that they have private workers steaming ma

wouldn't it be nice if you could tell your boss, it's just too hot to go to work today?

the obama administration's office of personnel management is actually encouraging some federal workers to do just that in a beat the heat memo. and that's making john red hot. john, i never got a break like this in the private sector. i don't know about you. >> that's because you're in the private sector. we're in the business of profit here. no such thing as taking days off because it's uncomfortable outside. government is not in the for-profit world. furthermo furthermore, most functions are not necessary, hence it can do this a lot. wish it would do it more. >> here's the specific memo. it says if your supervisor approves, telework ready employees may telework from home on a day when air quality conditions are poor. you know, very nice but we're paying for it. >> right. well, the key is are you working, telework. if you're not working you should be fired. this is the problem with government unions is they don't allow for firing of incompetent workers, unlike the private sector. i don't have a problem with

people working from home. when marissa mayer at yahoo! tried to put this heavy hand nobody telecommuting ever, look at what did for her company. nothing. just sold the company. >> accountability, that's the problem with government workers. you don't have the same kind of accountability as you do in the private sector and you get these incredible benefits when you see private sector salaries and compensations opposed to public sector. public sector get way overcompensated. >> this is a big scam that's inflicted on the american people is government unions have this entrenched workforce where they vote in people who protect -- will protect their workforce. and how do they define poor air quality conditions? bun dandelion flying of by the window? watch this. one out of three estimated government workers work from home once a week. >> do private sector companies get break like this? i've never worked for one that gives it. maybe you have in silicon valley. >> when i'm not on the road,

which i am half the time, traveling around the world, preaching the forbes gospel, i work at home. i get a lot of work done. the answer is accountability and that's where government falls down. >> yes. and, bruce, frankly, i think there's less accountability when you work at home. >> not me. >> well, i work from home a lot and i think i children ourn a l copy. private and public companies and schools take in chicago and other places in the winter, we're raising a generation of pampered poodles. i want to use a different word. it's not just -- it's not just government. i mean, people like, oh, it's cold outside, we're going to close. >> it's government. >> it happens across the government. >> pampered poodles. steve, one thing that may argue in favor of the gop aheed of the government union says god help us all if gop union wins. >> yeah, never heard of you having to shovel the sun in summertime like you do with snow in the winter time. and i go with john.

i'd rather have all the government workers stay home. we might have a richer country. >> might be you're right on that one. thank you. coming up, it's not just a thermometer. watch the stocks are sizzling this summer, too.

meanwhile, we are back with a picks that are going to rise with the summer temperatures, a fund defense in aerospace. >> it's got really stellar names like boeing, lockheed. look at that rate. >> ironically, one of the big reasons is i like it united tens top holding diversified into a lot of other things. >> you like small stocks. >> that's right. i like this vanguard etf. low cost way to play that area. >> do you like it? >> i do. big pop. slippery ride but i like it.

>> that's it for "forbes on fox." have a great weekend. thanks for watching. keep it right here. the mum ber one business block continues with eric bowling and "cashin' in." so many times noncollege education, educated white males have voted republican, they voted against their own economic interests because of guns, because of gays, and because of god. the three gs. god being woman's right to choose. >> how minority leader nancy pelosi saying that clinton struggles with white males without a college degree because of three gs, god, guns and gays but critics say try these three reason, jobs, terror, and i immigration. eric bolling, welcome. rick, start with you. why is hillaryav