20% in the next company. >> scott? >> it's the heart of election season, as gary said. nothing more than fighting it out over social media, facebook. >> the cost of freedom continue. here's dave. tensions escalating with iran. the u.s. navy firing warning shots at an iranian vessel in the persian gulf after harassment of u.s. navy ships by iranians are on the increase. our government also issuing a new iran travel warning for, quote, the risk and arrest and detention of u.s. citizens. so is this a thanks we get after sending them $1.7 billion in cash payments? hi, everybody. welcome to fox. let's go with mr. steve forbes. elizabeth, kerry, bruce and john. steve, we're just getting word from the fifth plea. navy confrontations between iran

and the u.s. are on the increase. there were 300, by the way, in 2015. so far in 2016, 250. we are on pace for a 67% increase. it's bad enough we're giving them money, but seems to be making things worse. >> when you have abject appeasement, which barack obama has been practicing since 2009 when he turned his back on the revolutionaries trying to overthrow it, appeasement gets you contempt. we pay ransom. americans can't go to iran because they're going to be kidnapped there and other bad spots. in terms of the iran nuke deal, iran violated it the day they signed it and continue to this day. iran tries to dominate the middle east. russia goes along with it. we're seen as a non-player, pitifully weak. >> the problem is we reward them for bad behavior. our u.s. sailors were humiliated, literally -- of course, john kerry was talking

about how well they were treated before we saw the tapes. right after this, we gave them all the money. >> well, some of these confrontations -- and we don't know the latest one, you know, involving some small boats going to our big fighter vessels. got to question the wisdom of that on the iranians' part, or even if they were rogue forces. points to me why the nuclear deal was a good one. it's an unstable region, and we don't want anybody over there having access to nuclear weapons. >> right. >> i think -- go ahead. >> i wouldn't say after 300 of these confrontations in 2015 and 250 so far, that these are rogue operations. seems to be a concerted effort on the part of the iranian government. plus ty're wort -- but not a friend of the u.s., russia. russia is using iranian bases for some of their air missions. >> iran has already violated the nuclear agreement we had with them. this all smells to me a lot like

the carter administration, david. he paired back military spending, russia started to walk all over us, went into afghanistan. we had no more respect around the world as a strong military force. i think that's where president obama has brought us. >> john, you're always telling us incentives matter, and i think you're absolutely right. we give them stuff, and then get i mean, these are negative incentives. the timing of the hostage relierelie relea release, by the way, was closely linkedin to the $200 million in cash we gave them. one said they were absolutely waiting for that cash payment. >> it's fairly clearly a ransom payment. how we know that is the state department's own directive, that americans shouldn't travel there anymore. simply because the state department doesn't want to pay more ransoms to get hostages out. the precedent has been set. i'll point out it's not -- the obama administration is not the first one to pay for -- to get hostages out.

seemingly, every administration has sadly been doing it for a while. >> we'll talk about whether that is legal in a minute. in terms of threats to u.s. citizens, there was another iranian american just taken a couple weeks ago. mr. shahani. >> other hostages, as well. some of them have dual citizenship. listen, this is a really dangerous gamble, giving iran the cash. it gives them incentive, basically, to take people. it endangers more americans because iran wants $2 billion, estimated, in frozen assets. they want that money. they have said, we want also the u.s. to pay $10 billion or whatever it is for american hostilities. here's the thing, the white house will say, whatever iran does is an aberration. it's harassing our ships. unauthorized act. >> even after 250 this year. >> yeah, that's right. this is really about cementing in place president obama's foreign policy legacy and

getting the iran nuclear deal. >> let's move it forward to a possible hillary clinton presidency. this is under the obama administration. does any of this fall on her shoulders? >> absolutely, it does. part and parcel on her shoulders. in fact, in philadelphia, at the convention, this was a major theme in her speech. i get credit for the iranian deal. i blame hillary for the hillary deal. it's squarely on her shoulders as head of secretary of state. and the obama administration knew that this money that, you know -- the money flowing in would be used for terrorism. they don't care. hillary clinton did not stand up and push back against this problem. >> steve, are we going to hear it on a campaign trail? is this something that donald trump is going to be talking about? >> he should be talking about it and should come up in the first or second debate. she'll just shrug it off and say, donald, you don't know what you're talking about. he has to be prepped for that, on that and the other iranian travesties. >> what about the idea of congress controlling the money

purse? how does the u.s., the president himself, get off spending $1.7 billion of our dollars for something that the congress has no authority over? >> well, the $400 million of it, the quote, unquote, ransom payment, i don't know how you can call it a ransom payment when it was their money to begin with. >> it's leverage. what else do you call it? state department calls it leverage. >> it was their money. it was their money to begin with, okay? it's $400 million. using it as leverage, i mean, if you are the families of the americans and the money was iran's to begin with, i don't view it as ransom. >> hang on. >> whoa, whoa, one at a time. >> how about -- >> hold on. one at a time. >> here's the thing, they should have set as a precondition the release of the hostages first. then you get -- by the way, iran's economy was in tatters. i don't know why we didn't play that and let iran get the upper hand. they should have said, you know what? you release the hostages first before we deal with you at all.

>> $1.7 billion wasn't just for the payment of those weapons that were bought many years ago. a lot of interest involved there, too. go ahead. >> bruce, what about paying the families and the victims of terrorism? iran funds terrorism around the world. >> good point. >> hezbollah, yemen, everywhere. >> they created hezbollah? yemen, yeah. >> you talk about hate? we're subsidizing hate by paying iran. bruce, i cannot believe you're supporting it. >> going back to the idea, again, it's in the consultation, th -- constitution, that congress has the right to deal with our money. this is coming from our pockets, taxpayers. government doesn't create money. what happened to that idea, with regard to this payment? >> this president has never showed he cared about the constitution and the republicans have never shown they had the backbone to support america and stand up for the constitution and stand up to obama. that's the problem. >> john, it fits a pattern, does

it not? this president takes all kinds of authority that the constitution doesn't grant him. >> there's no doubt that's true, but i'm seeing this from an entirely different angle. >> tell us. >> my frustration is, why do we conscience substantia constantly elevate second-rate powers like iran? we give them a voice in the world. if we would ignore them -- >> steve, we went over some of the damage they have done. they've done a lot of damage in terms of creating terrorist organizations like hezbollah. now with this potential for an unholy alliance between russia and iran, i think this is trouble. >> it is trouble. when bad guys act badly around the world, we ultimately suffer for it. there is a thing called 9/11. the idea -- obama's idea that all the woes in the world are because we exist, because we are a factor in the world, is preposterous. when we withdraw from the world, barbarians rise up. coming up, hillary clinton is not just running against donald trump. some are saying she's running .

i'm elizabeth prann in washington. now back to "forbes on fox." not just donald trump. some say hillary clinton is also taking on one of her husband's proudest achievements. as we celebrate the 20th anniversary of revolutionary welfare reform this week, hillary clinton is promising more government assistance with no strings attached. it's a monumental setback, you say. how so? >> what bill clinton did was say, listen, you have to work to get some of the welfare benefits. listen, we want to help the single mom raising a family. absolutely. but watch what fdr said. essentially, when you have welfare without work, it basically creating spiritual disintegration and destroys the national fiber, the human spirit. people want a hand to get a job, not a handout. makes them less capable of taking care of themselves.

they don't want just a lifeline. >> the monumental changes, the design of welfare, and congress helped bill clinton do that, by the way, it ended up with remarkable achievements. the welfare case load went down after the reforms. 4.9 million in '95. ten years after, 1.8 million. the poverty rate went down, as well. >> john kasich had an editorial in the "new york times" talking about how the congress in 2005 unravelled it. hillary is also for raising the federal minimum wage and also for infrastructure, which would help some of these working families. even city group came out with a report this week and said they liked what candidates were saying about infrastructure. they thought donald trump would cause a global recession. >> only talked about the government growing, not getting smaller. i'm questioning that report. steve, the bottom line is, what the welfare reform of the past did was in complete

contradiction to what the so-called experts back then said would happen. they said poverty is going to increase and so will the welfare. exactly the opposite happened. >> yes. just goes to show, helping people is a two-way street, which we used to know before the great depression. you helped somebody. in return, they helped themselves. that's why charity before the depression worked so well. that's why the welfare reform worked so well. yes, you get assistance when you're on your back. in turn, you provide work for yourself and your family and community. >> right. >> everyone comes out ahead. >> something else that welfare was doing, forcing a partner out of the house when you're raising kids. you got more money if you were a sing parent than you did -- those incentives were perverse, were they not? >> contributed to single parenthood. we have to get rid of those incentives. about fdr, the spirit was

perverted by the time it got to lbj. he started his war on poverty, which incentivized not working and the disintegration of the low income family. fortunately, bill clinton did come around and worked with the republican congress. i think what we're hearing from his wife is because of bernie. i think bernie is pushing her to the left. >> let's discuss that for a second. mike, do you think it is possible that she might moderate her views somewhat when she becomes president, like her husband? >> i don't know about that, david. what i know is to pay for this pandering that hillary is doing, she has to -- she's put out a tax plan. according to the national policy center it's going to cost taxpayers between $400 billion and $500 billion. to put it in perspective, those tax increases are bigger than the entire economy of israel, norway or hong kong. >> wow. by the way, i sawhen she become president, but if. the fact is, she has gone in

contradiction to what her husband said at least later on in his term. we always remember this comment. let's play it and get your reaction. >> the era of big government is over. >> what happened to that? >> that's the thing. bill was for shrinking government. he did it with a republican congress. hillary wants to increase its footprint by $1 trillion. he signed nafta and she says she won't sign trade agreements. he signed a capital gains cut. she wants to increase the penalty placed on investment success. she says he is an economic expert which is odd she's running against his economic policy. >> it's not happening in a vacuum. we've had this tremendous increase in government during the obama administration, from doubling of the debt by the way, from about $10 trillion to close to $20 trillion. >> $1 trillion in overpayments since 2003. not fair.

don't take another nickel of our money unless you cut back the government spending. i want to mention what king said. she said, if these inner cities, if there was jobs there instead of handouts, if people were working you wouldn't have the crime you're having in places like chicago and other cities. >> she's the niece of -- she is the niece of martin luther king. bruce, there may be a crime connection here, as well. >> wow, i would say this, listen, you asked earlier if you thought hillary could work with a republican congress. republicans are saying they can work with her. steve king, no fan of the clintons and no fan of anything to the left of center has said, you know, if you remove the glare of the spotlight, he'd be able to work with her. i think she would be fine. >> carrie is putting up her hand. >> i've been working with paul ryan and what he's doing with poverty. ever since he was the vp nominee, the past four years he's been touring the country, talking to poverty fighters.

he wants to move on the issue. unfortunately, barack obama is so stagnant and causing more problems here. i think if we have president hillary clinton, like her husband, we could see progress. >> we certainly saw progress after what happened in the '90s. meanwhile, getting rea to roll. bottom of e hour, what do you have? >> david, hillary clinton laughing off her e-mail scandal on late night tv. with new allegations, will she be laughing in november? donald trump catching flak for suggesting he'd take a softer stance on deporting illegal immigrants. is he dammed if he does and if he doesn't? the annoying robocalls. there is a plan to hang up

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those infuriating robocalls, like the one claiming to be the irs, well, now there is a government plan to hang up on them all. the fcc is launching a task force, with several big companies, to track down on the awfully costly phone scams. you say we need the intervention. it is the flip side. >> you're right. there are nuts sometimes government and private sector can work together, space exploration, disease eradicat n eradication, medicine development. we want to increase

productivity, right? >> this is one time we need government intervention. >> no. the federal government was not created to protect us from annoyance. a federal government that can protect us from annoyance can do annoying things. >> i like it. when the calls hit your cell phone, they use up the data usage and you're charged for it. i think it is okay. >> steve, sometimes, i mean, they are pure scams. like the irs. they -- one of these scammers called my house. my daughter got worried about it. >> they're scams everywhere, the mail, e-mail oro bo robocalls. not all are bad. i've done some for a candidate. sometimes i see a source of enlightenment and education. >> i'll take down your picture in my office. by the way, if you want to stop it, have the caller pay for your

end on the call. >> that's a good way. >> bruce, seinfeld had a perfect solution to this, right? >> definitely. that's what i use. i ask the robocaller, or the telemarketer, can i have your phone number and call you back later? that usually ends the call. >> if we have these personal ways of dealing with it, maybe we don't need the government in there. >> absolutely, david. if you have the government, all any robocaller has to do is make a donation to the clinton foundation and they'll be exempt. >> carrie, there is a danger of this creeping government intervention. at first, they start out with a noble cause. but the more they get their hooks in, the more we regret having them got been. >> that is very true. if we can make it narrow, defined, very much, you know, like a scalpel, saying this is explicitly what it is for. the scam example, it is simple. common sense is calling. >> steve, has she convinced you? maybe there is a way. >> well, there is a way.

again, make the caller pay for it. by golly -- >> without the fcc. >> without the fcc. also, the carriers have the technology to cut it out now. you can suggest to them, as government does these days, why not offer that and make it free? >> ha, ha, ha. >> let's leave it there. coming up, a new survey saying the biggest financial stressor the u.s. is not being able to pay off your personal debt. (announcer vo) who says your desk phone always has to be at your desk? now, with one talk from verizon... hi, pete. i'm glad you called. (announcer vo) all your phones can work together on one number. you can move calls between phones, so conversations can go where you go. take your time. i'm not going anywhere. (announcer vo) and when you're not available, one talk helps find the right person who is. hi, john. (announcer vo) so wherever work takes you, you can put your customers first. introducing one talk-- another way verizon connects your business better. learn how at onetalk.com.

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it lost its deal with costco. it's on the rebound. >> i like the dif vevidend. >> keep it right here. the number one business continues. have you considered using facebook instead of e-mail? >> actually, actually, i think that's really good advice. >> hillary clinton joking with jimmy kick mmel, facing new scrutiny around her e-mail scandal. he has to be concerned about how this will impact her in the general election, right? >> the state department said they have to release 15,000 e-mails by the deadline. there are a couple days before the debate. are you concerned? >> no. >> hillary says she's not worried but she should be? should she be laughing about it? hi, everyone. welcome to