hearings this morning especially linda edwards, a victim of wells fargo who has been patiently sitting there offering her opinion. thank you very much, we appreciate it, judge andrew napolitano ably assisted our regular team. that is it for the moment, neil cavuto, not sure what he has got for you, probably more hearings. neil: imagine, how was your day, dear? man oh man. we are going to carry on with this and we are waiting to hear from donald trump in north s show the trends continuing but the story of the hours what is going on with wells fargo ceo john stump who appears to be stumped as he continues to get grilled and this woman started it.

>> you the chairman of the board? >> i'm the chairman of the board. >> okay. >> do you acknowledge that the employees who engaged in this activity were engaged in fraud? >> i'm not a criminal officer, and i don't know the -- i'm not a lawyer. i don't know the legal term. >> i'm not a lawyer either, neither are most adults in america, but i think most people understand the meaning of the word "fraud." >> you and your senior executives created an environment in which this culture of deception and deceit thrive. neil: all right. so so far not a good day for john stumpf. charlie gasparino's been following it. i should take a peek at the market, it's fallen 10% in the past month or so but, charlie, wow. >> a bipartisan ass-kicking that i haven't seen in a long time. neil: it didn't start out that way. >> well, it started out slow. listen, i remember when jamie

dimon had to go before this committee or one of the committees -- maybe committees -- a couple years ago when they had the london whale trading fiasco. he handled them pretty well. he was incredibly prepared. john stumpf, in contrast, wasn't. listen, he's the ceo of the company, chairman of the board, of course he knows about compensation. that's all they do all day, figure out how to compensate their senior executives. 60% of all their revenues go to compensation so, of course, they look at compensation. so that's b.s -- neil: is that criminal? >> i don't know if it's criminal or not because i'm not a lawyer. i'm going to quote john stumpf there -- neil: maybe it would have helped if he were. >> yeah. maybe it would have helped if he was briefed by a lawyer. so the question is coming in, and this is something we reported last week, that sources close to the bank said a lot of his future, particularly long-term future -- i think he's going to last the week because he has -- or the month because he has to do another hearing, by

the way, depends at how well he at these hearings, and he's not doing well. you've got to say net-net, he's probably going to have to resign before his retiring which is, i hear, in a couple years. that's one hinge. that's one thing. why do banks particularly like wells fargo which is, so you know, a well-run bank, which hurts them. why do they cross-sell retail banking products? well, here's what happened and what elizabeth -- neil: encouraged to do so. >> why do they have to do that? because after dodd-frank the feds, the federal government forced them to get out of many profitable lines of business that had nothing to do with the financial crisis. it was considered too risky, had zero to do with it including trading, hedge funds, all these very profitable lines of business. so what did the big banks like wells and jpmorgan, all these banks, they went in and had to ramp up fees on another side. that's what we have here.

i'm not exonerating him. i'm telling you if you want the root cause of this cross-selling -- by the way, go to a jpmorgan branch and say you lost your credit card, you'll be harangued for 15 minutes -- neil: well, you just read my mind about the next question. we're putting this guy under the microcope, are there other banks that probably did the same thing or maybe not on as grand a scale? this guy was actually bragging about it, to elizabeth warren's credit -- >> right. neil: -- in conference calls with analysts years ago. >> and i thought she did a very good job except for that one point. she'll never concede that dodd-frank is the root cause of this because every bank does a certain degree of this -- neil: just like congress encouraged banks to hand out mortgages -- >> absolutely. neil: and, obviously, banks left to their own devices will find a way. >> and here's something else she won't say, because of dodd-frank you have eight or six, i can't remember the exact number,

really big banks that are unmanageable, okay? congress passed this law, they put all these alleged risk controls on them, right? by the way, cross-selling is not one of the risk controls they put on. you can still cross-sell until today maybe x they left them really big. and, you know, they're impossible to manage. i had this conversation with jamie dimon where i said, listen -- he says, charlie, we didn't do anything fraudulent. this was a mistake, a screw-up. i said, i believe you, jamie, but here's where you and i differ, you guys are too big. you can't manage that place. nobody can manage -- you know, think about what a bank is now. it's not just a bank with commercial deposits and doing regular banking stuff, it's a securities firm. it does all this other stuff. neil: don't you worry for this bank and other banks, it's like the richard nixon moment with david frost? this guy gave them a sword, a reason to relegislate, to relitigate, to drag still more ceos before congress because it's an easy thing to do. >> yeah --

neil: and i'm not apologizing for anything he did. >> i agree. it depends on who gets elected. if donald trump gets elected my guess is because i hear through the grapevine that he wants less regulation and a possible break-up of the bank. he believes they should be smaller and better run. neil: what about this consumer unit? >> consumer financial protection board. neil: she claims that was the reason came to light. is that true? >> well, they're the one that prosecuted the first case, or litigated it -- >> neil: so without that unit -- >> listen, she's right on a lot of stuff. where she fails, where she doesn't understand the bank is why we have banks so aggressive in cross-selling and why management can't find it. it all goes back to the laws that she likes. dodd-frank made it impossible for them to do other stuff, so what do they have to do? neil: why don't we go back to glass-steigel? separate those businesses? >> i have been a proponent of that. i will tell you what jamie dimon

or even barney frank, he would say it's hard to unscramble the eggs, you know? neil: yeah. so so intertwined. >> they're so intertwined. you can make incentives for them to break up, which i think is maybe where donald might go with this -- neil: yeah. >> if he gets elected, and i think steven moore and larry kudlow and free market types are part of his economic time. neil: but there's always somebody who ruins it for everybody. whether this guy is -- i don't know. >> remember, there's always going to be bad guys. neil: absolutely. >>t you don't want is a systemic failure of a bank to cause an -- listen, if bear stearns just imploded, okay, and lehman brothers, we wouldn't have had the financial crisis. it would have been a blip. but the financial crisis affected everybody, and i think what we have here is the problem is that banks are so big that systemically it's very hard to -- neil: what i worry about though, charlie, and i want to bring in

gary b. smith to this argument, and maybe you can help me with this, is that there are a lot of obnoxious banking tendencies that are coming to light here in the case of wells fargo, and i don't know if i'm all that keen on congress making things right or coming down hard on all banks right now, even policing key members' pay, looking at transactions. i mean, this gets to be -- in other words, when congress thinks it's a better, you know, arbiter of things financial, i'm worried. and yet i think that's where we could be going here. what do you think? >> exactly. well, two things. first, a belated welcome back. i haven't seen you since you've been back. neil: thank you. >> nice to have you back. second of all, you hit exactly the point i was going to be on. this is a company, they've -- everyone went after them. every, you know, the consumer financial protection board, the comptroller of the currency, the los angeles police department, i'm surprised -- neil: but the consumer

protective services is the one that elizabeth warren says, and charlie and i were just chatting about it, that's claiming credit for citing this, catching this. and without that product of dodd-frank, we wouldn't be here today. i don't know if that's true, but what do you make about that? it's going to sort of reinforce the notion here's a good thing government can do, and you should welcome it. i don't know about that. what do you think? >> exactly. that's my point. we've taken -- everyone was clamoring to get on this so they could be more powerful and, you know, bask in the reflective glory. and what it does is it makes people think, my gosh, government -- to your point -- is good. maybe they should be stepping in across the board. maybe the fda should be even stronger. maybe mylan was the tip of the iceberg, and they should go after all the other pharmaceutical companies. and then you place more and more power in the government and less and less power in the free market. look, they paid, what, $185 million or whatever it is in civil personalities -- >> that's nothing though. >> that was it.

it was a legal case -- neil: i think these guys in that committee hearing are looking for something with a b. >> neil, i think we do a really disservice to the free markets by underplaying this scandal. and let me explain it. so i agree somewhat with what gary says, but the bottom line is the consumer financial protection board found this thing, highlighted it -- neil: it was a good product of dodd-frank. >> it is a horrendous practice what they were doing. neil: right. >> people were forcing and creating phony credit card accounts and bank accounts and fees, and putting people -- neil: that aspect of dodd-frank, was that that something helpful? >> that was a good thing. let me just point out the reason why this bank did this and the reason why upper management probably didn't have a clue and should be fired more not having a clue, by the way, but reason why is precisely because of dodd-frank. dodd-frank allowed five or six huge banks that are allegedly highly regulated, and the management can't manage these big banks, and they force them -- neil: all right, guys, stay

right where you are. apparently things are getting hot under the collar again in questioning the ceo. >> the bank benefited from enormously, and yoare scapegoating the people at the very bottom. >> senator, i am, i just need -- i don't want to be confrontational, but i want to just tell you that the vast majority did the right thing. we love the idea of having deep, mutually-beneficial relations with our customers. having a product that a customer does not use does not need or does not want does not help the customer, it does not help me, and it does not help the shareholder. >> you signed sarbanes-oxley reports. did you ever reveal the problems with this high-pressure sales strategy in terms of fraudulent credit accounts anytime in that course towards two million, two million fraudulent accounts? did you ever disclose that to your investors? >> well, let me just say -- >> well, yes or no. it's a simple question.

>> senator, the question is two million fraudulent -- there was two million accounts that we could not rule out as a possibility that they weren't authorized. >> i'm so glad you crossed that t and dotted that i. did you ever disclose the systemic problem of fraudulent accounts to your investors? >> it was not a material event. >> so you bragged on the one hand about the intensive ability to get cross-selling and how that would be beneficial, but the problems that came from that strategy, the very problems that dozens and dozens of people have shared their stories about how it was on the ground, and you can only blame them for ethical lapses, you never disclosed you had a systemic problem. >> again -- >> did you sign those reports personally? that's what sarbanes-oxley was. didn't you think that was material when you're saying this is our big, this is our big win, our cross-selling strategy, not to disclose it also had a dark side? >> there was a lot of things that our customers do and a lot

of businesses that we have. this is one ratio, and most of this business, first of all, all of the positive accounts are off the books. most of them went on and off in the same quarter they happened. having a customer on an account they don't need is not helpful, it's not what we want. >> i'm going to close by saying i would like to hear about the amount of slamming that went on be on overdraft protection since that's come come up, and a number of employees talked about how they were pressured in adding that. do you have details on that? >> i do not. >> can you get extensive details on that? >> i don't know that issue off the top of my head, but i'll have my staff, i'll instruct them to to work with your team as quickly as you can. >> can you get the information for the full committee? >> i'll have my team work with your team. i don't even know exactly what we're talking about. >> you don't know what overdraft protection is? >> i know what overdraft protection is. i know that we had a credit card product for overdraft protection, but i'll have my team work work with your team.

>> and please get the information to the full committee. >> senator brown, you have another question. >> thank you, mr. chairman. there's so much more to discuss. first, i ask unanimous consent to enter into the record the testimony in the house by colleague taja, and julie miller, two people who worked at wells fargo. >> without objection. >> thank you, mr. chairman. a couple of clarification of points and two or three more questions, mr. stumpf. we've discussed whether two of the employees were fired. understand that just for those watching and listening and for the record especially, 90% of the people fired were not managers, so that means they were tellers, $12-$15 an hour, personal bankers, $15-$20 an hour, but most of of the people fired were not bank managers or regional managers. second, there's a mention that only credit cards would affect

credit scores, and the answer to one of these questions, but if funds were moved out of a checking account and someone bounced a check for a car payment, that could be, that could end up affecting credit scores. so while it may narrowly be only credit cards, it really isn't in that definition. a couple of questions. senator scott asked about where employees can go with ethics concerns, mr. stumpf. it sounded from whistleblower lawsuits that an ethics complaint often resulted in confronting the very managers condoning this behavior. is that true? >> i don't believe that is true. i don't know. i can get back to you -- >> how do they, how do you register an ethics complaint other than calling cfpb or the l.a. county attorney or the l.a. times? >> as i understand how our ethics line works, it's anonymous call. it's handled by a third party outside of the company who does work on that and then reports it to the company. >> okay. i would like more on that, because my understanding is at

least initially you have to confront your supervisor who has much to say about it. now that we know what we do, will wells fargo continue to take the position in court the contractual agreements on mandatory arbitration, this is a question about mandatory arbitration, the fine print of so many of these contracts, if you will, will wells fargo continue to take the position many court that criminal chut agreements on mandatory arbitration covering real accounts will apply to fraudulent ones as well and customers will be forced into arbitration rather than having access to the courts? >> well, i've instructed our team to do whatever it takes within reason to take care of these customers. i'd have to talk to my legal team, and we can get back to you on that. >> all right. understanding what has happened in the past, these mandatory arbitration clauses which many of us i know on this committee don't think are fair generally and most consumers don't understand that they are part of a mandatory even know what it

is, part of a mandatory arbitration arraigningment, that that's been applied to these fraudulent accounts in addition to the ones that were not fraudulent, understand that's what's happened. i hope your answer is specifically in response to that. >> well, again, i'll talk to our team -- neil: all right. you've been watching as we dip in and out of this john stumpf in the hot seat, wells fargo. at issue, how and why did the bank set up two million phony accounts of which customers had no idea, some of them credit card accounts, missed credit card payments, that sort of thing. we don't know how many. stuart was just talking to one woman whose daughter was brought into this whirlwind and then for a hands-on ceo or a guy, you know, famous for saying he's a detail-oriented ceo motto to know what was going on. gary b. smith, it just gets worse and worse. a number of these senators are saying you should resign, you should leave. he is facing a world of p.r. hurt, isn't he?

>> well, let me give you my perspective, neil. this seems to be a sales issue, if you will. when i was at ibm about 30 years ago, how it worked was the chairman and his staff gave out quotas for any number -- thousands of products at ibm. those were given to north america and then to the various regions until it boiled down to me, a holy marketing manager. -- lowly marketing manager. you were then expected to make your quota by hook or crook. now, i'm not saying we did anything illegal at ibm, but you did everything you could. by the time to those numbers boiled all the way up to john acres, i guarantee you he didn't know how the numbers -- >> gary, here's the difference. you were selling computers to sophisticated people. what we're talking about here is, i think that's when they were selling computers, ibm. [laughter] neil: when he was there, it was abacus -- >> charlie, the point, you were given -- >> no, i understand what you're saying. >> you were given a number to make, and you had to make it

just like these people out in the field at wells fargo. >> when you overstepped your bounds there, you were overstepping your bounds with some other sophisticated buyer of a computer who kind of could tell you were overstepping your bounds. banks have always -- gary, i'm telling you, i've covered this for years. they've always gotten in trouble by cross-selling and aggressively selling products to their retail customers because the guy that walks in the bank is not necessarily an mba. it's an old lady that doesn't know the difference between a mutual fund and a bank account, and these high-pressure sales tactics continuously get these banks in trouble. now the question is, why is it worse now? why do we have something like this? it's totally insane. i remember in '95 when i was at "the wall street journal," i did a bunch of stories about how banks were cross-selling mutual funds to their retail clients, and it was pretty bad, okay? but this is on another scale. neil: unbeknownst -- >> but, charlie, can -- could

you have expected the ceo to know if the thousands -- >> well, see that's -- neil: the issue is that he was unaware. you obviously would see the revenue coming in from setting up all these new accounts, love that, but never asked the question how the heck did this happen? >> right. but this is the problem he's got. i'm not saying he has to know everything that goes on at the banks. but when you deal with retail customers, you have to have controls in place that are better than ibm's controls. because you're stealing money out of grandma millie's pocket potentially if people step over the line in a broad sense, which they did here. and the fact that he did not have those controls, the fact that he was much more worried about the revenue side than the control side dealing with a bank and dealing with customers is very, very bad and probably is going to lead, based on this testimony, i was -- like i said, i was duke can yous before this -- dubious before this that he -- neil: gary, regardless where you come out on this, and it doesn't look like a good day for mr. stumpf, i do worry down the road whether he gave regulators

and politicians a sword that is going to be, you know, an impetus for the government to get involved and scrutinize and take over business practices and police them more sternly in washington. and and i don't know if that's such a good result here. >> you absolutely have it right, neil. this is going to make -- look, when you're in government, you don't get paid a lot generally, so all you can do is get more power, hire more people, build your department. that's what these people in congress and the senate and the various commissions are trying to do. so the public's going to tune in, a small percentage of the public probably, but still the public is going to tune in, and these hearings and they're going to go, my gosh, look how great big government is, let's make it bigger. that's my fear -- neil: but, gary, what do you make of the fact that it's republicans and democrats bashing this guy? i mean, that is -- rarely do you see that in a government hearing, i mean, but they're really piling on here. >> yeah. well, look, at some point it becomes all about me, neil, and

these people there, you know, these congressmen and senators, it's all about them. if they can look great by beating up on someone, then they can go out to their, you know, in the next election and say, see what good i did? and then get reelected and stuff like that. neil: it is an odd event when senator menendez is preaching morals and ethics, but that is what it is. your final thought? >> i agree with that, and i would just say this is a bad day for capitalism because it's only one side of the argument's being told. big government gave us this. dodd-frank gave us -- >> exactly. >> -- the fact that we have banks that are too big to manage, that they are forced to find ways to ramp up fees, and you have to have a sales culture somewhere so they can make their profit margins. and if you made these banks smaller and allowed them to do some stuff that had nothing to do with the financial crisis, well, guess what? neil: that's what elizabeth warren wants, right? >> i don't know. she would break them up and ramp up the regulations. neil: yeah. >> she would make them government utilities, essentially. neil: well, don't be surprised if that is the next step. guys, thank you very much.

again, for the wells fargo ceo probably wondering if this was a good idea. [laughter] again, he was called before this group, and he will be similarly called before a house group asking the same questions. but, again, the question is john stumpf's long-term survival -- and let's just say it looked 60/40 going into this hearing, probably 40/60 now -- >> yeah. neil: midway through this hearing. more after this. >> absolutely. i have asthma... ...one of many pieces in my life. so when my asthma symptoms kept coming back on my long-term control medicine. i talked to my doctor and found a missing piece

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neil: welcome back, new details on the bombing suspect in the new york area, out of surgery and being questions, the latest from a key family member. >> we are talking about his father who two years ago called the fbi and reported his son to the police, called in 2014 a terrorist. we know he had gone to pack a seen on several occasions and when he came back there was an altercation between members of his family. let me listen to what happened in the words of his father. be change checked what is going

on. he is a terrorist. >> reporter: his father reported him to authorities have a terrorist, he says the fbi told him he was not a terrorist, there was an altercation in which ahmad khan rahami who is facing five counts of attempted murder, stabbed his brother, we do know he has previous arrests, a fingerprint on 27th street helps police identify the man he wanted, he could face charges federally, his first appearance in court in state for ahmad khan rahami will take place as soon as friday, perhaps tuesday. neil: why did the fbi dismiss the charges? looking like a family argument?

>> reporter: there were two issues going on. ahmad khan rahami had gone to afghanistan, pakistan, the fbi has not said why not? presumably they have to say whether there is a connection or evidence but they told the father his son was not a terrorist. there will be members of congress who want to know why that was there. neil: i would be remiss if i didn't tell you chuck schumer is questioning the wells fargo ceo. >> good reputation or the reputation of your bank, the value of your shares. i would urgently urge you not to allow those bonuses to occur and urge compensation committee you sit on to do that. that is a statement for the

record. i would like to talk about the cfpb because they have done incredible work over the last five years but this case exemplifies why the cfpb was created, the consumer financial protection bureau is formed to ensure financial institutions that harm consumers through unfair, deceptive or abusive practices were held accountable and consumers were made whole again. over the course of short history has gotten $12 million in relief and restitution. today's hearing reminds us why it was formed, we need the beat, incentives and practices, in wells fargo, were very very wrong and bad and i am sure you said they infected the work environment the branches in the country and including in new

york. beyond the financial damage wells fargo's actions violated consumer trust. wells will have to work long and hard, those americans can rest assured knowing there is cfpb, given what you have been through, it has not been a pleasant experience. do you agree federal regulators like cfpb serve valuable role in promoting safety and stability and protections, a lot on the other side of the aisle to get rid of the power of the cfpb. >> we are working with all of them. >> you think it is a necessary thing. >> accredited by congress and we

agreed to work closely in this manner with them. >> do you believe the reforms -- let the answer speak for itself. we think the cfpb has done a good job, however it happened shows the need for. okay. do you believe the reforms wells committed to required under the consent agreement you signed with the cfpb allow well -- neil: we will keep monitoring this. was that a tony soprano move, don't you think it is a good idea the you should like the cfpb, consumer financial protection bureau, the wells fargo ceo under heat to say yes, it is the law of the land, i have to follow it but an interesting moment because that has divided republicans and

democrats, the we don't need that sort of oversight, plenty of oversight, but this very oversight that triggered an investigation into loaded accounts, a big fan of government, to be involved and that funny, and -- >> very clever of senator schumer, and the ceo agreed to be interrogated for three hours. judge napolitano: could have expressed fifth amendment privilege but in the long run, and the executive officer, defined the bank so if anybody, a ton of litigation, what you have here, you can't.

and locked the whole bank into answers he gave. he is in danger of perjuring himself if he wants to give a different answer to the same question two years from now. judge napolitano: easy for the ceo in the heat of the moment to say i forgot i wasn't aware and i got this information but i recalled such a hands-on ceo could over the years be so out to lunch and not know about these comments, elizabeth warren wants to keep pounding. >> i hope so too. thank you very much. i really appreciate your holding this hearing. we sent a letter about the board's plans to clawback compensation to senior executives responsible for overseeing this scam. wells fargo provided a response,

i sent a letter to you the the response came from someone else in the company. i want to focus now on mysterious circumstances surrounding carrie hallstead's retirement in july, ran the community banking division where this scam occurred for the entire time the scam took place, she was in charge of all the 5300 employees who were fired and oversaw the creation of 2 million fake account. in july of this year just two month before the settlement was announced and before those facts became public, she retired at age 56. you indicated in the letter, responding to our letter that she walked away with over $90 million in stock, stock options

and awards. fortune magazine said it is $125 million. here is the key part. according to fortune, if she had been fired instead of retiring, she would have had to forfeit as much as the $5 of that award. mister stump, the response to a letter confirms that you knew of this scandal before missed hallstead retired. it said from the letter senior management and board were aware of pending litigation, investigation and discussions with our regulators relating to sales practices when she indicated her decision to retire. is that accurate? what this letter said? where you personally aware of the massive problem that occurred in july when she

announced her retirement? >> we were involved in discussion with the city attorney and cfpb. >> you have some indication there was a massive problem. >> we had some indication we had 1% of people -- >> also known as a massive problem. if you knew this did you consider firing her before she retired? >> at the time according to our president and chief operating officer -- >> a simple question would you knew there was a problem, did you consider firing her? >> no. >> seriously? you found that one of your divisions created to million fake accounts, fired thousands of employees for improper behavior and cheated thousands of your own customers and you didn't even once consider firing her ahead of her retirement? >> when i look at her full body of work, looked at the customer

loyalty improvement. >> are you sure those were not fake? >> all the work that was done and i would like to make another comment. >> you never considered firing her. now missed hallstead has apparently retired but is also staying with the firm through the end of the year and in response to our letter you state or the person writing it states, quote, missed hallstead is eligible to be considered for a 2016 annual incentive award, and incentive award for doing a great job in 2016? mister stump, that is unbelievable. you are chairman of the board and the ceo. in those roles, you think it would be appropriate for missed hallstead to get another bonus on top of the millions she has

already gotten as a reward for her role in this massive scam? >> the board will consider that but i don't want to prejudice the board. >> i don't understand that answer. you and your board have already made changes. you made changes to the compensation scheme for thousands of employees, you sat here today and talked about that, removed sales quotas, reformed incentives. why can that be done quick as a wink across the entire bank but a question about cutting compensation for a highly placed executive who oversaw a massive fraud takes long deliberation? why is that? >> there is a board government process we want to work properly and whether carrie was retired or fired, there would be no difference with respect to how the board can deal with that.

>> if she was fired it is my understanding she would not be entitled to large parts of her compensation. she doesn't get them to begin with but you let her walk out the door with a retirement. i don't understand. how do you explain this to your own shareholders? >> there is a process the board goes through, they -- >> the board, the board, as if these are strangers you met in a dark alley. under the bylaws of wells fargo, i am quoting, the chairman shall preside at all meetings of the board. if you were able to make changes why can you not make a change here? >> i'm not on the human resources committee of the board. they have their own governance and structure. we want that to proceed in the process we have.

>> we will do this your way with our letter asks a number of questions about clawbacks of miss told said and other executive pay including yours is wells fargo's answer to the letter is you punted, the decision would be up to the board, so you are the chairman of the board. let me ask it this way. would you support klein back all or part of miss told said's pay? >> i am not going in anyway to try to prejudice the board. >> you have absolutely no opinion on this? >> i will not opine on that. >> you are going to say get out there and defraud, cheat, lie, steal and i have nothing to say about whether you are still getting a bonus. >> i never said and never would say go out and do any of those things, we try to do the right thing. >> if you do, you can count on

chairman stump not to stand up and say you shouldn't get your incentive bonus? >> the board has a process. >> i think you started this whole thing by saying don't tell me what you say, tell me what your actions are. your actions are people do this and you are not going to take a single step to shut it down. i can ask this question again. will you support klein back any or all of the pay for the person in charge of compliance? when we haven't talked about much today. the person who is supposed to be responsible to make sure they are following the law. do you have recommendations about that person? >> i will have the board do -- >> you will have no recommendation at all ever at any point in this process? >> whatever the board accepts, whatever they do i will accept and support. >> you are not passive here. what are you doing serving as chairman of the board? if you have no opinions on the most massive fraud that has hit this bank since the beginning of

time, how can it be you get to collect a paycheck for being chairman of the board? >> i disagree with the fact this is a massive fraud. secondly the board will do their work and i will not prejudice their work and i will accept what they come up with and be supportive. >> you accepted all along as this fraud built-up, massive fraud. you accepted all the performance based on cross-selling at the heart of this, you watched your own stock go up by $200 million based on this massive fraud, you pumped it to wall street and you said to wall street we are doing such a great job cross-selling at wells fargo you should tell everybody to buy our stock and now you turn around and say i shall remain passive and accept

what wells fargo wants to do. in 2008, wall street promised change but it looks like it is business as usual. a giant bank cheats the little guy and the executives line their own pockets would you make it clear that wall street won't change until we make it change, thank you. >> thank you for appearing today. we have questions. neil: that is why he is in a heap of trouble, pr and otherwise and maybe legal trouble. the woman you heard being talked about was carry hallstead who oversaw retail operations that included oversight of the 6000 pumped accounts of which those

customers had no idea and a very nice bonus, she retired, fortune magazine put it in the name of $100 million. as head of the company, john stump had to approve that. i had to approve the departure and what elizabeth warren was getting at, why did you do that? a lot will keep coming up here. at issue here, whether the consumer financial protection bureau, which was a creation of hers did the job, brought this to life. judge napolitano: the testimony has a political success uniting the senate banking committee, every single one of them is taking heavy pot shots at the ceo because behaviors are reprehensible. neil: she reminded republican governors you were against this. judge napolitano: she raised the

specter of criminal prosecution, nor did she waste a moment to raise the specter of class-action. what she didn't mention. neil: what would become a? lying about it? judge napolitano: each of those falsely opened accounts was an act of criminal fraud depending on the state in which it was committed. you have 50 state attorneys general, each of whom wants to be the governor of that state, all of whom could bring huge actions against this bank which operates in all 50 states. they alone put aside the class-action, put aside a group of lawyers suing on behalf of everybody, those 50 attorneys general alone could do to this bank what they did the big tobacco, extract a huge amount of money theoretically to distribute to the people that were harmed, should harm the shareholders and banks but benefit politicians. on top of that the potential class-action, a group of lawyers

will file a lawsuit, one representing millions that were injured here and you have injury upon injury upon injury of people paying mortgages at higher interest rates than they should because they have an artificially high credit score based on their failure to pay a credit card bill which wasn't really there is which was created by this bank. multiply that by tens of thousands and you see the scope of damages. neil: you were on stuart varney's show, a woman whose daughter was caught up in this and when stuart varney asked what are you going to do, she said -- suing, my daughter's college education. judge napolitano: that is one person. you will get an enormous amount of litigation and the problem for the bank, the plaintiff's case was laid out by the answers given under oath so he can't

deviate from these answers nor can any officer below him deviate from these answers without the bank having a serious ability problem. neil: a ceo pleading ignorance, the largest on the planet, and compensation all the time, give me a break. neil: boasting about the number of accounts per person. neil: ceos take course at quarterly conference calls that analysts follow stock and it was in those conference call dating back years that he would brag about this sort of thing. judge napolitano: did he know they were being done fraudulently? neil: put such pressure on staff to come up with numbers that some pushed into illegal activity. judge napolitano: we now know

the activity was illegal. what we don't know is whether he was aware of it. neil: do you have proof for those who cite the the council, what the credit scores were? downgraded or their credit ratings were being -- or they missed getting an auto loan? judge napolitano: if someone files an individual complaint they would have to prove direct cause but a class-action will walk away with many billions, a judge or mediator or core agent will distribute among the 2 million people who were armed. neil: a lot of people were wondering about mister stump, and other members, and a good day for a man who runs wells fargo, considered a clarion leader and financial heavyweight.

and jamie diamond, and that man is in a heap of trouble. he has gone from visionary to soon forgotten. ♪

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the rest is up to you. call now, request your free decision guide and start gathering the information you need to help you keep rolling with confidence. go long™. ♪ neil: left the witness stand or whatever they call it is not a great performance, wells fargo facing a battery of questions for republicans and democrats, elizabeth warren was back to the nixonian question, what did you know and when did you know it? i want to look at stock, when we got the reports of bogus accounts, stock took a hit and it refers to the hearing.

and elizabeth warren's questioning was relentless, hit wells fargo but stock is up by 10%. it hurts causeway republicans and democrats are grilling you in unison. >> morgan stanley or somebody said it was a deal, may have played a role in that. just because both sides are on the same side doesn't mean they are right. it is difficult to take wells fargo's side on this but let me be clear, the employees were cheating management. customers were mere ponds in a scheme to not lose your job and had a sales target, like the play where you come in third you are fired. neil: assuming management was totally ignorant, the provision

was that, we didn't know. >> at this stage they were only guilt or of failure of imagination like in the 2008 crash of not believing customers and mortgage brokers would make up stuff to generate volume. we find a looking gun, and email that they knew this, they want to take the stock price going up in touting these numbers and that is another level but everyone is asking like that are it happened, that is not here at this point, swindled by their own employees who should have been fired anyway, and think -- neil: more or less reward compensation on whether you meet those quotas. >> they are trying to spell this into the pay differences. the real story is how aggressive a sales system, is it okay to cut 1% of your staff all the

time? is that worth going after management? is that hard on low end employees are too software their own pay practices but this stage, give them a little bit of a break. neil: not a good day for wells fargo, more after this. (announcer vo) that's right, keep rockin'. siriusxm's free listening event might be over, but now you can turn us back on with packages starting at $5.99 a month, plus fees. just call 855-874-7746 to keep hearing all the things that make you love taking the long way home. ♪

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dream to albright. wells fargo ceo stopped up hot deep, but john stubbs is still stunned. many people beginning to wonder whether his days are numbers ahead of this institution. certainly a man deemed to be a visionary more than a few months ago could now be out on his tiny. peter barnes telegraphed this with elizabeth warren mr. lim the misgiving questionnaire today that contributed to a lot of troubles. peter barnes, what have you got? reporter: neil, i don't know if

i seem know if i'd seen it know if i seem to really bat toss in my entire time covering congress and business 25 years. that's about as tough as it gets. john stumpf on the hot seat stadium he was deeply sorry for the failures at wells fargo that caused these fake accounts to be open, some 2 million of them. he accepted full responsibility for all the sales practices at the spades and said there were reforms be put in place already and as you know repeated at the bank has fired since 2011 and discovered transgressions of about five dozen people. senator warren really went after him hard. listen. >> you should resign. you should give back the money that you took while this scam was going on and you should be criminally investigated. this just isn't right. a cashier who steals a handful of 20s is held accountable,

but wall street executives who are most never hold themselves accountable. >> whatever the board accepts, whatever they do i will accept and i will support. >> you are not passive here. if you have nothing to do, what are you doing serving as chairman of the board. if you have no opinions on the most massive fraud that the hispanics in the beginning of time, how can it be that you actually get to continue to collect a paycheck for being chairman of the board? >> she was specifically asking and he was responding to the question of clawback the bonuses as tens of millions of dollars have been that critics say were awarded based on aggressive sales practices, a culture of hard selling cross-selling products at the bank that generated profits and generated a higher stock price. senator warren and others in their say in some of that money should be clawed back 479 and

top deputies. he left the hearing just a few minutes ago down the hallway. we were yelling questions at him. are you going to resign? will you accept clawback, pay back some of your compensation. he walked by a stonefaced almond meal. a stonefaced beard neil: i would imagine why. thank you, peter barnes very much. donald trump is speaking right now in north carolina i believe, one of this state he has broken into a bit of a lead. i wanted to get this for a while because all of this comes on the heels of someone's -- someone's dad to concerns that his son was radicalized and was already a terrorist spirit the fbi upon hearing that dismissed the charges and said his son was not.

donald trump began linking this to an overall refugee crisis we still got going on worldwide. let's listen in. >> altogether if there are nearly 1 million individuals in the united states with deportation orders who have not yet been removed. in the 20th century, the united states defeated fascism, not csm and communism. now we must defeat radical islam ex-terrorists and shared [cheers and applause] get my opponent won't even say the words radical islamic terror. in fact, hillary clinton talks tougher about my supporters than she does about islamic terrorists. [applause] she caused a patriotic american to support our campaign, many of

them cops and soldiers, deplorable and irredeemable. [booing] did she ever talk that way about radical islam or those who oppose and murder women overseas? no. has hillary clinton never call people who support these practices deplorable or irredeemable? no. in many cases overseas, nonbelievers face the death penalty, whether it is hillary's condemnation. i mean, where is it? where is their condemnation of these people? where is her nation of these countries question mark let's ask hillary how many people who subscribe to radical islamic views and support the oppression of nonbelievers would you call deplorable or irredeemable. that's a terrible word that hasn't been reported, but that was the word she used. are those words reserved for hard-working americans that truly support us and truly love

our country? seems that way. america can never elect a president like hillary clinton with the choice of words thinks that if things are a bigger threat than radical islam. can't do this. anyone who cannot name our enemy is not fit to lead this country. remember. [cheers and applause] and if you can't name your enemy, you don't know what the problem is that if you don't know what the problem is coming your never going to fix the problem. anyone who can not condemn the hatred, oppression and violence? the moral clarity to serve as our president. the commander-in-chief of this nation must speak with moral clarity and conviction. our system of government is the best of the world and as your president, i will defend our

values and speak out against those who assault our values in any way, shape or form. [cheers and applause] right? [applause] it is also time to remember one very important word. accountability. all this disaster with isis happened on hillary clinton watch, happened with her. her bad judgment, her bad decision-making, her policies in iraq and libya and syria are responsible for the rise of aces. her attacks on me are all meant to deflect from a record of a regime this monstrous evil upon us. all she does is attack me constantly attack, attack. everyone says you should never be successful in run for political office. but that's the kind of person you need. hate to tell you that is what we

need. [cheers and applause] all of my life i have heard a few never run for political office, but it's time. we have to bring our country back and make our country great again. we have to do some thing because it is not working right now the way it is. [applause] this is so true. her timetable and withdraw from iraq, her push for regime change in libya and syria, her open border policies, these are the actions that unleashed the isis disaster. so she will say and do anything to distract from that record of total failure. and let's see how much she changes her policies over the next couple of days because she's been for open borders. she's her people poured in from syria. she is for all of these things. it's getting very hard for anyone who is rational or even

sane. how can people believe this way? how can they do that? how can people believe this when they see what is happening all over the world. look at germany. look what happened to burkle in the recent election. look at what's going on. we have to use common sense. we have to be smart, tough and vigilant. her claim that my opposition to radical islamic terrorism is a recruiting tool. i am beaten path. why is that recruiting? much tougher on her on this horrible situation. she goes around saying it's a recruiting tool. madison avenue is advertising. they gave her that and said let's call a recruiting tool. because i'm tough as a recruiting tool? it demonstrates a level of ignorance about the terror threat there really is disqualifying for a person

seeking the presidency. when she says my opposition to radical islamic terror provides aid and comfort to the enemy, we know that hillary clinton has once again demonstrated he's really unfit for office. [cheers and applause] her comments are not only reckless, the basic dignity of the office she seeks. isis is torturing, murdering, executing people in a campaign of genocide and what is hillary clinton suggestion? you know what she's suggesting. let's let more people come in. that we should censor our vocabulary so as not to upset these butchers. i have news for hillary. refusing to call out radical

islam will not lessen the danger. it will only increase and embolden the danger just like we have seen does during disasters and failed term as secretary of state. it emboldens him. [applause] just like iran is embolden. if you look at iran, they made this deal and instead of becoming a thread, it looks to me like it's gotten worse. the clinton foreign policy legacy, one of them, and many others that are not good. secretary clinton has helped to topple regimes, displaced millions and open the door to isis potentially to enter this country. you think of this, it's a disaster. how is this policy a smart policy? clinton's decisions overseas have left us with the threat we face today and immigration policies will abide this threat

as soon as -- as sure as you are there standing, watching that's going to happen right onto our shores. we must stop the massive inflow of refugees which hillary clinton did his training to drastically increase. she may change her mind because this is what has been happening for a long time but it's getting harder and harder because how are you electable when you have policies like that? who should temporarily suspend immigration or bridges were safe and adequate screening and i mean extreme dieting could not occur. [applause] pew polling shows that many of the countries from which we drew large numbers of immigrant, extreme views about revision such as the death penalty for those who made the faith are common place the death penalty. it is the job and really of

government to the bit windows and only those who we expect to succeed and to flourish here and become part of our incredible country and home. [applause] hillary clinton disagrees with the common sense rule it is why she will not win the election on november [applause] it is trying to break with the corruption the bad judgment and the values of the past. it is time to have a new american future. we are going to change our immigration system to reflect american values. [applause]

we are going to stop the policy of regime change overseas and instead focus on working with our allies on military camp paid to utterly destroy isis and defeat islamic terrorism. [applause] this will not only require military warfare, but also financial warfare, cyberwarfare and ideological warfare. to win this struggle, we need to be strong at home. we are going to rebuild our country. our infrastructure is a disaster. our country is a mass with $20 trillion in debt. think of it. $20 trillion. at the center of the effort will be in fact the rebuilding of their inner cities. nearly four in 10 african american children live in poverty including 45% of african-american children under the age of six.

58% of african-american youth are not working. violent crime rose in america's 50 largest cities last year. it went through the roof. homicides are up nearly 50% in washington d.c. and more than 60% in baltimore. more than 3000 people have been shot in chicago since january. think of that. since january. 3000 people. that is worse than the war-torn nation are looking at. that is worse than afghanistan. the schools are failing at the jobs are leaving and millions are trapped in poverty. to the african-american community, i say vote for donald trump. i will fix it. i will fix it. [cheers and applause] i will bring back your jobs.

i will fix your schools and i will fight for your safety. you will be safe. it is time for new civil rights does and one that promises safe communities, grade education and a good paying job. now i say this and i say this all the time. what do you have to lose? your education is broken, your communities are unsafe. there are no jobs. neil: will continue to monitor donald trump. hillary clinton taking the day to focus and get ready for the big debate next week. the bullet went has been on its back. he's been gone a few weeks ago now up by a few points. this is played out in the so-called battleground states. others propel that or not. too early to say. in the meantime, we are getting more details on the red flag

that should have been raised on the guy who's behind those attacks in the new york metropolitan area, namely from his own family. >> terrorism could edit the entire 26 an 26 election in wake of a new york city bombing. plus i learned survival training. hope you are therefore it.

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[inaudible conversations] neil: that is true and the suspect in the attack over the weekend in the new york mr. politan area was deemed a terrorist by his own death and the sky had alerted the fbi to the fear that his son was a terrorist years ago. what happened? former u.s. navy reserve. >> like we thought in the

attacks in parisnd san bernardino can particularly in orlando, there has been a connection for law enforcement had knowledge of an data and intelligence. when you start to treat all these individual attacks in isolation. this is an aversion to the end of the clinton industry should work hobart tower, tanzania come the uss cole are all treated as separate incidents, not part of a larger campaign. as law enforcement in the only actor of this and the first response responder you put a mud owners to defeat and prevent an attack that is now inside the wire naturalized u.s. citizens. the campaign and the war opposed to an individual in the isolation that law enforcement has to deal with. you're giving them a no-win situation.

>> there must be algorithms use cross-referenced. the kid is doing some of the bizarre things in the last two gears rather than just a white umbrella that takes an everyone. >> you have to also have the political will. every successful campaign throughout history, military camp paid. you have a political will to deal with the enemy and deal with them on terms that you can actually combat the enemy. it makes a lot of sense based on what the white house press secretary said yesterday about a narrative battle that they are treating this in isolation. again went back to each individual incident as a law enforcement action and doesn't have a component where you combat overseas. neil: everything is like an episode of l.a. law here. thank you very much. the political fallout from this. the bad guys are getting in and keeps happening again and again

to the hill editor in chief. >> this is a big opportunity for trump what a terrible august and hillary clinton has had a very rough september. i think her comment on the plane after the bombing was very unemotional trump speeches are getting better. he's saying less and less controversial things with the basket of deplorable as which is not a top issue in the polls. it's in the top five or six. terrorism is higher. i'm been tough not because i need but because i'm trying to protect you and that's a winning argument. >> everything adds to the pressure for monday today and never went has said donald trump but i always believe in you are the expert. i read a prompter. one thing i've noticed is debates often turn i'm not what you know, but how you say it,

how you share that. in other words be few sometimes more than i.q. trump has his finger on the pulse of that angst more so than she. i am not damning her knowledge or his lack of knowledge. on that, he seems to be resume. >> without a doubt. overall foreign policy knowledge, hillary clinton is more partially because she was secretary of state. as for his debate skills come debate skills coming debates debate they're all about moment than when there's a lot of famous debate moment in history in we are looking for someone one day. trump is very good on his feet. he can come back as he said, counterpunch. hillary clinton got better as a debater. she was better in 2016 and she was in 2008. at least not as good a trump. she has the edge of the overall knowledge and intricate policies, but this year as you know, no one cares about a 10-point plan. this is the year of the outsider.

that's why think it's going to be riveting television. neil: thank you, my friend. we are getting word breaking for the security exchange commission investigating exxon over climate change and whether the value project due to climate risk. the concern as it does not. it gets even more slippery after this. 32 years at this place and now i've got 9 days left before retirement. we've been planning for this for a long time and we'll keep evolving things. so don't worry. knowing you is how edward jones makes sense of investing.

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neil: if you're a fan, you know he has a great voice. he's no one may not voice to something he's been warning about for the better part of a decade. the latest incident ahmad khan rahami illustrates his point. trouble could be brewing an extensive neighborhood watch i guess. it's a good point. >> flight 93, three weeks after 9/11 in honor of them i started to think, why don't we have civilian control 93, which is a more extended neighborhood.

i spoke to tom ridge. i expect him to embrace the idea in me being at the rose garden: civilian control 93. call your communities here in this whole thing. what it would do is the reaction was silent. because they thought it would be profiling. they thought it would be the civilians getting involved in a certain way, but it was background checks. i've got to tell the community season income is safe and innocent that is to say no to drugs. i was on 26 streets saturday, said a night. i came in from l.a. for the radio show that i do. twenty-third street, 27 street blocked off. people at eating. i'm looking at people, listening to the thing, relaxing. i put my carry bag just to see

safe and they. neil: a boozy they might've been intimidated. >> now i put it back in the corner. that's my bag. >> you're right about that. the one weapon. there is only one in full view. >> civilian patrol is a program across the nation whereby volunteers in the community get a small background check. they then can this particular communities to know who their neighbors are. >> how do you know they don't get a little power hungry? they also give subsidize upon force the in the fbi. all day long but conduits who's afraid to be called racial profiling when she knew something was going on. a woman like that called up civilian control because otherwise this happens right

after 9/11. i was coaching my daughter's softball team in doing the show profiling so everyone thought i was fbi. everyone -- how would we help law enforcement at the same time weeding out what may be a threat of critical infrastructure. >> inside you coach her daughter's softball team. when he reaches out question dark neil: our ancestors were always profiled. >> one of the greatest cop from the community in the 10s developed a technique they and the anti-terrorism. and was killed in sicily. i went before the grand jury because i had lunch with an interesting character who i did not know was an interesting air.

neil: you look wonderful. thank you for your kindness. not a crazy idea. we seem crazier things happen. stick around. strategy the same way to create a financial plan built to last from generation to generation. we'll listen. we'll talk. we'll plan. baird.

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neil: you do this is eventually going to happen because so many state attorneys general made a point of it. 21 days into the president's

overtime rules. those are the ones that required workers earning less than $40,500 year to kick in and allow the to get overtime double where was earlier. their argument had had this would force can be a small come in medium, large businesses alike to rejigger payroll to decide who is a full-time worker or not just to pay that overtime. we will see how that goes. 21 states not challenging it. in the meantime, a new poll out of ford does is hillary got a hurt back and got back on the stone. the state of florida seems to be doing the trick here she is up over donald trump right now soon after she was reported to have the lead in the sunshine state. now 46-41 clinton over trump in the latest poll in the state of florida. volatile polls in that state will probably see others in battleground states show similar

swings back and forth with another seven weeks ago. in the mean time, president obama suggesting the country has a problem with powerful women say there is a reason we haven't had a woman president. we as a society grapple with what it means to see powerful women in silk troubles us in a lot of ways and that expresses itself in all sorts of ways. "washtington examiner" sarah westwood is here. cat, i always think of making a generalized statement if your candidate loses in this case because she's a woman and would have a problem with women when we've got at least 100 of them in congress. we've got six republican -- i'm sorry, six female governors. 25 or so fortune 500 ceos who

are women. i think we are over if you assume the president's right, thanks we have about putting women in charge. >> i think we need more women in positions of power, but i hate when people say that means we need hillary clinton in particular. because she is such a bad candidate. if she does it when you can't say it's because she's a woman because she also has so many issues if that doesn't mean woman could have one. no other candidate has had these scandals. it does mean that's does mean that's the thing that's the issue. it's ridiculous. trade to the raptor is not the she's a woman candidate that if she does go on to get the issue is about candidate. >> let's be clear. iraq obama was saved lay made the faction was a woman. he was pointing out some event happens to be sure. we've never had a woman president and we've never had anyone come close. let me take off my partisan hat and say that the way hillary clinton has been talk about, the

way the sarah palin in her time when she was a vice presidential candidate was talked about his ways men were never talked about. neil: have you seen the way donald trump has top two women? >> lippi is bernie sanders is an example. he was not someone who was reticent. he was a screamer when he would talk at the microphone. donald trump doesn't come across as cheery all the time. people focus on the fact that hillary clinton yells. when was the last time you saw donald trump got a big smile like this. neil: people say i don't smile enough. i don't buy it. 30 years ago that might've been a valid point. there might be some who have a problem with a woman president. given this day in age and maybe you can help me. i just date given the numbers that i stressed at the outset of this, we've come a long way here.

i don't know what the president is going and surmise that if she doesn't get elected that's the next week i'm taking is because she was a woman and we could grapple with that. what do you think? >> i objected and sexism into the conversation, president obama is further in what has become hillary clinton's entire campaign strategy to make voting for donald trump is socially an extent of the lack because she can afford to 13% undecided voters come in many whom are skipped over public and to break in a trance favorite overcome their doubts. president obama, hillary clinton did and her allies are trying to scare moderates away from lighting up behind the nominee. >> i don't doubt for a minute that a number of women, pioneers for those decades ago in israel, it encountered a lot of this stuff. the fact of the matter is i think we are past whatever initial shock or jolt or chauvinism might have been

present. elections will turn not on whether she's a woman, but whether she was teamed up to the task and manage women voters. >> let me just say one thing. market thatcher were both that of political parties but then became -- >> i could go on. >> that's very different. you're actually not for a political party. you're asking someone to cast a vote for an individual. lupin ever have that you have to wonder why. >> hillary clinton not winning would not mean that we were not in a place where women could win. >> i think we are insulting a lot of people. the same who argue will never elect an african-american president, we did twice. i think when we go back to the argument that if you don't back barack obama your races. i think that is the implied message here and not part really

bothers me. >> )-right-paren president obama had a winning combination good but the transformational message and historical implications to candidacy. hillary clinton only had one of those. even democrats are starting to criticize her for running a substance and focusing solely on the fact donald trump tweets controversial things sometimes. president obama has seized on what seems to be strategy as the race tightens up and down the ballot which is to hammer home the fact hillary clinton could be the first woman president could close the double digit in tuesday as an gap that way. neil: ladies, i don't know. we will see. it will be decided one way or the other on the candidate rather than their error. but that's just me. i didn't mention the two-day meeting of the federal reserve is underway as we speak. tomorrow we will know whether they pull the trigger on interest rates. the betting is they will not. we are on it.

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has a workaround. a bypass has been completed. they could be pumping again as early as tomorrow in places like georgia at the levin%. tennessee at 7%. in indiana, the refinery behind you to bp for finery. a bit of a problem with maintenance issues as well. we cannot gas shortages here in the midwest as well. gas problems. coast-to-coast with caputo. i'm jeff flock in a bp refinery. the u.s. largest inland refinery in indiana.

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when you only have one shot, you need a whole lot of ingenuity. neil: stacked up nominally today. the value not quite what it normally is good people participated because they wait to see what the federal reserve does when it wraps up the two-day meeting which of those seem to be betting the federal reserve will not hike interest rates. the former host greg rayburn is the time to start was a while ago but here in the middle of an election year. greg, it is interesting. they are behind the curve and that's the point. they are doing to market bidding and i don't know if that is such a good thing. >> they are inflating the market artificially. that's why i say they should have started this process long ago. it is your interest rate that

cripples retirees and people who depend on interest income. i. the artificially inflate the market. neil: their argument is fine if inflation. we don't see it. it's a big distinction. >> the dots -- who knows the dots they're lucky not. there is a difference between the real economy with interest rate policy. neil: if we didn't have zero interest rate for all these years, where do you think would be? with the first sign things are picking up and instead started hiking. do you think the economy would be where it is. >> i think the economy is doing better. it is different than what you see in the stock market.

if they raise rates, the market will correct. there's not going to be a market in the state. there will be a market correction. the economy and links from non-other than the financial and editions. there's no ceos visit out there and do their strategy and planning and investment decisions based on what the fed is going to do. >> i've been so used to rates so low. >> that's a great point. there are a lot of speculative businesses that require easy access to capital arrays to meet their business plan run. that's not good for the economy. those businesses should get flushed out of the system. they sustained job growth over a longer period of time. that's what you want to have happen. >> watch any of these?.

>> i sure did. >> tough day for him. i've dealt with crises in a lot of different stances and you get one chance. you get one shot to do the right thing. if you doubt you pay the price. he's paid the price today because they've not done the right thing in the circus dances. they certainly haven't done what i would have done. neil: the hearings are over. he's going to get a shot at him but he did not comport himself while today. much more on the fallout is that it did it. ♪jake reese, "day to feel alive"♪

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>> i started out today by accepting full responsibility.

>> full responsibility for establishing a culture that the people an impossible situation would be to resign as my colleague suggested. >> the only way wall street will change his bed jail time when they preside over a massive fraud. >> your reaction. >> that's the kind of day it was for the wells fargo basu really cut down to size and a lot of people say will probably see his days numbered all over the account by thousands of them unbeknownst to some of the customers. dagen mcdowell was watching this. >> just to correct you, the technical term is whipping. >> surely he must have figured. >> in the comments that senator warren made, she essentially warned him.

there are a lot of bigger picture issues at play here because the regulators in washington governing bank executive pay have just an april handed down regulations about that and flying in no-space relations is about those clawback permissions. they want the clawback permissions to go back seven years. once compensation is vested with stock was up option, it's hard for a bank to go back. this goes right to wed they want the regulators to do. they were pressing on the letter that these five democratic senators sent to wells fargo and stumpf. you've got clawback permissions so that is why they are putting pressure on him. by the way, it carried tolls dead, when she retires at the end of the year, she is taking with her at least $113 million.

>> he argued it would be a grown-up stuff stuff going on that people were taking advantage in doing things she didn't approve of. there were a lot of questions around her visit nation at the time and she got this great retirement package. the question is how can a guy who prides himself on being very hands-on now claim ignorance and if you claim ignorance, your people are running amok because of incentives put in place that may be led to this. either way not good. >> a culture created by the people at the top of the bag. whether you like elizabeth warren, she came loaded for bear. she took out everything that she wanted to take out on those executives are in a financial collapse. neil: when he gets home and says honey i'm home. (announcer vo) that's right, keep rockin'.

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neil: i passed on the biggest news of the day, angelina jolie filing for divorce fighting irreconcilable differences, one wants to watch fbn, the other not, joking, it is very tacky, asking custody of six kids. >> said stuff, very sad indeed. john stump blasted on capitol hill for opening 2 million phony accounting customer names in an effort to rake bankruptcies and meet sales goals. i got to tell you it was unbelievable to watch today, tipple court capitol hill hearing, the ceo gets raked over the coals, his expense for lawmakers so they can take a victory lap but this was all that and some more.