there's any conversation about the relevance of the fed, that is going to make a difference. [closing bell rings] liz: something tells me they might not put the fed up front. guess what? we hit a new low, down 170 points and falling this is session lows folks. let me give it to david and melissa. they will parse all of this, "after the bell." david: liz, thank very much. the stocks are selling off into the close. dow, s&p, nasdaq tumbling for second is day in a row. we're at session lows. i'm david asman. melissa: i'm melissa francis. this is "after the bell." we got you covered on the big market movers here's what else we have for you this hour. a few hours before donald trump vases off against hillary clinton in their first head-to-head matchup. polls show they are locked in a dead-heat. the pressure is on with voter is

saying they will have a major impact who they vote for in november. take you out to hempstead, long island, for a live preview of tonight's big event. we have an all-star lineup including steve hayes, ron paul and david walker. david: first back to the markets. whether it is politics or earnings recession, the dow tumbling for the second straight day. ending down 160 points. looks like 164 right now. goldman sachs, jpmorgan, home depot among today's biggest drags. oil a bright spot. phil flynn, of price futures watching energy climb from the cme. lori rothman from the floor of the new york stock exchange. often times oil is up but do it is going in different direction. >> wall street doesn't like uncertainty, with the big debate coming up, a lot of anxiety ahead of that. i think it is fair to say played into pressure we saw on u.s.

stocks. the other factor was deutsche bank weekend report saying german government will not offer aid to deutsche bank to help it cover its 14 billion-dollar fines being charged by u.s. regulators for deutch bank's role in the mortgage business leading up of course to the financial crisis in 2007 and '08. have a look at financials. there was certainly spillover effect on that. financials led markets lower. jpmorgan chase down two points. morgan stanley a lot of an 3/4 of 1%. i want to talk about homebuilders. august sales were down but not as much as economists were expecting. important to note the july numbers with a nine-year high. you saw a mixed reaction. important to note kb homes with shares up 2 1/3%, rbc analyst upgraded price target on kb homes to $17. back to you.

melissa: is it about the opec meeting coming up, phil, or what would you say? >> it sure is. in fact they're moving closer to a deal and that's why the market is up. remember friday everybody selling off. we'll not have a deal this meeting. you have iran who is offering lower production company for their oil. they wanted five million. they lowered that down to 4.18 million. so that is closer. also saudi arabia is offering a production cut. but of course what are traders talking about today? they don't care about the markets. they care about the debates tonight. that is what they're all talking about. a big call by citigroup on gold, saying uh-oh you better you watch it, donald trump is moving up in the polls. if he actually wins the debate tonight we may see gold go higher. citigroup's reasoning, there will be a lot of uncertainty about a trump presidency. people will buy gold as safe haven. they're saying, if the wins the presidency we'll see gold over $1400 an ounce. we're not that far away.

i don't know what they're saying but back to you. melissa: don't forget, citi gave almost a million dollars to the clintons in speech money. there is that to consider as well, phil, thank you. david: a lot of elements there. bring in today's market panel. jonathan hoenig from capitalist pig hedge fund. lenore hawkins, good to see you both. jonathan, open up "the wall street journal," profits set to fall for a sixth straight quarter. now the third quarter was one where things were supposed to get better in terms of this earnings recession. it is not happening. i'm wondering if the economy is much catching up to the markets? >> another down day today. we ended on session lows the market has levitating act. all-time highs and despite deteriorating fundamentals. phil flynn from the cme said it best, most people these days have their eye on the election. that is what makes tonight very important.

neither candidate supports free markets. that uncertainty or proposal -- david: it is degree whether one supports the markets or not. lenore, deutsche bank a lot of focus on that bank, whether there could be a cascade of problems after deutsche bank has its problems. what do you think? >> oh, the european banking system is absolutely a house of cards and this is just the first one. i've been talking for years now about deutsche bank waiting to see what happens. look at stock, 600 euro banks, constant downward trend. you have these potential exogenous risks yet the s&p is priced really, really rich like you said the sixth quarter of declining earnings. david: but does it affect our banks, lenore? does it spill into our banks eventually. >> with the way the world is woven it will affect our banks. melissa: the maker of the life saving epipen clarifying

testimony she made to congress last week saying the company doesn't profit $100 for a pair of epipens. actually makes 160 or more than 60%. hmmm. jonathan this is the story that just sort of never ends. part of it is intricacies of tax accounting which shouldn't be this complicated anyway where they don't pay the corporate rate. it is all insane. >> why is it so bad talking about making a profit? i thought that is what companies were supposed to do, melissa? these pharmaceutical ceos are what the oil company executives were decade ago. melissa: so true. >> so they're going to be blamed for anything and that i think is too bad, especially we're supposed to encourage companies to make profits. when you see ceos having to make excuses for that very story story -- foreboding sign for pharmaceutical industry just as oil it was 10 years ago. melissa: lenore what do you think. >> the person who has epipen

this drives me insane. mylan can be outrage just as they want with their pricing. the problem is fda made it impossible for me to have alternative. melissa: that's true. david: i love the free market explanation what is is going on. verizon executives are reportedly livid over how long it took yahoo! to disclose breach of nearly 500 million users accounts. yahoo! saying the hack occurred nearly two years ago but it was only discovered last week shortly after signing a merger deal with verizon. so is this is a deal breaker, lenore? >> this is a going to be a really tough one. we don't really understand what the magnitude of this is and what's really disturbing how forthcoming the yahoo! executives have been. so if you're verizon looking at them saying i wonder what else we're not being told. this opens up a whole can of worms. david: there is also, jonathan, the lawsuits. there is no telling as to whether if verizon gets this

group of accounts, whether they are libel legally to settle lawsuits? >> david the breach itself was shocking but the fact it was not disclosed to verizon is almost unbelievable. david: was it coincidence by the way, jonathan, that it was disclosed just shortly after they signed the deal? >> it could be potentially criminal, david, if there was knowledge of this. part after capitalist system working is honesty between suitors. if this information was purposefully suppressed by yahoo! ahead of the deal, not only will there be lawsuits but perfect example of entire deal, especially twitter is now in play the entire deal would would be at risk of falling apart. david: go ahead, lenore. >> it smells of desperation, doesn't it, when you're with holding something this big. david: absolutely does. lenore, jonathan, good to see you both. thank you very much, guys. >> thank you, david. melissa: it is the moment the nation has been waiting for. we're just hours from the main event. as many as 100 million americans

are expected to watch the first debate tonight. david: we'll take you live to hofstra university in hempstead, long island. that is where it is all happening with the latest on the rules, details and who will be sitting in those front row seats. melissa: there has been a lot of controversy around that. stephen hayes of "the weekly standard" will join us as well as his take on brand new polls putting a little extra pressure on hillary clinton tonight. >> we always expected this to be close. we always said that from the beginning. hillary knew that from day one with this campaign but you know, it will be a close election. whether it's bringing cutting-edge wifi to 35,000 fans...

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♪ david: the white house is at stake. can't get bigger than that it is nearly time for clash of the

candidates in tonight's first presidential debate. fox business's connell mcshane is on the scene at hofstra university with the latest. connell? >> hey there, david, we built it up enough. it is getting close to time for the action that we've been building up towards tonight. a number of different things that are on people's minds number one, we expect to see candidates here late this afternoon, early evening for the walk-throughs as we get set for the arena behind me. a lot will be made who will be here tonight. in addition to hillary clinton and donald trump. there has been all the talk about billionaire mark cuban whether or not he makes an appearance. he is hillary clinton supporter or maybe donald trump antagonist as we put it. we're hearing conflicting things about cuban. latest from the clinton campaign and campaign officials, they tell us they expect him to be here. we'll see if that comes to fruition. we put together a list of donald trump's invited guests and supporters on hand which may speak to the values of that campaign. first on the list there is mark

geist, survivor of benghazi. as is the second name a gold star mom named karen vaughn. gold star mom, given what happened in the campaign. you pay attention to that a couple of generals given trump certainly has been courting the support of the military and polling pretty well there. generals mike flynn and keith kellogg will be here. debate taking place what is normally hofstra's basketball arena behind me will be 90 minutes. no commercial breaks. lester holt, two moderators and lick turns. that is way it happens. , they break it down into six, 15 minute segments. you get two minutes if you're the candidates to answer opening the question of each segment. after that it is ten minutes where there will be open debate and discussion that follows. so, that will be a interesting to see how lester holt handles that. the first question of the evening will go by wait to hillary clinton. that sets you up for tonight. could be one of the most watched television events we've ever seen.

i heard you talking about that earlier. 100 million is number being thrown around. 80 million is the record for debate in 1980, carter and reagan. david: i'm sure we'll bust through that number easily. connell, thank you very much. melissa? melissa: here to weigh in on the high-stakes debate, steve hayes, "weekly standard" and fox news contributor. steve, i had to sort of chuckle last week on friday and saturday morning the hillary clinton camp had been saying she is losing ground everywhere except the states that really count and pennsylvania and colorado. she is still way ahead in the two of those, those are her firewall. lo and behold, new polls from cnn showing that he is closing the gap or pulling ahead in those. what do you make of that? >> look it, pretty significant development. she is losing ground everywhere in virtually all the battleground states and has been the past three weeks. what makes colorado most interesting, clinton campaign and super-pacs supporting her candidacy pulled their ads and

much of their efforts it must be said in colorado a couple months ago on the assumption that she was in the clear, that she really didn't need to compete there. donald trump wasn't doing much to compete there. she effective had colorado won. well obviously now, the clinton campaign is contemplating going back up on the air with ads in colorado and no doubt will have to juice up its get-out-the-vote operation there in order to be competitive. melissa: can you do that? can you flip the switch back on? at the time when they said that too, i was sort of wondering how much was games manship. they were saying they were pulling back in terms of their offices or were they really doing it? first of all do you buy they stepped back and can they turn the switch back on if they did? >> that's a great point. they did step back in terms of what ad buys they were planning to do. you are right there is some amount of gamesmanship there. they have a ground operation there. one of the things we can say for sure on november 8th, the clinton ground operation will be

leagues better than the trump ground operation. he hasn't built one or built much of one is largely left over from the rnc which has a ground operation but nothing like the obama ground campaign that was usinged so effectively in 2008 and 2012 which hillary clinton in effect inherited. they have incredible operation. i think that gives her, some people will tell you a point or two advantage in those states. melissa: let me challenge that as well because i said that to reince priebus and others, people in the rnc and they say, actually the truth is that she did inherit that from president obama but they opened offices and there is not much beyond that. she doesn't have the same level of enthusiasm. even though they appear to have get-out-the-vote infrastructure they don't have actual volunteers and people going out and doing it and it isn't as impressive they make it out to be because they just don't have the people who want to come in and volunteer. is that possible? >> well, look, you would expect

reince to say that, right? he is paid to say things like that. melissa: i think it was -- you have i have to be careful. >> i think they're half right. i think in terms of her enthusiasm it is, there isn't the kind of enthusiasm there was for obama. you saw that in 2008 and 2012. the turnout machine worked in part because of that ground level enthusiasm. hillary clinton lacks that. the machine, the infrastructure, is still there. the question is whether they will be able to generate the kind of enthusiasm. i don't think anybody anticipates they will match the enthusiasm for president obama among the democratic base. one of the difficult challenges she faces here tonight and for the rest of the campaign is continuing to keep that obama coalition together while at same time reaching out to disaffected white male democrats, suburban moms, the kind of people she will need to win in places like pennsylvania, ohio, florida, et cetera.

>> steve, thank you so much. you have a front row seat. i'm so jealous. i'm making a special chile tonight. we'll be on the couch watching things. i am sorry. >> bring it to you tomorrow. melissa: bring in a little extra. fox business 7:00 p.m. eastern. lou dobbs is going to have an interview with vp nominee mike pence and coach bobby knight live from hofstra university. david: i can't believe we have arrived. we have finally arrived at this point. melissa: a few hours to go. david: wow, exciting. influence of presidential debates tonight could be a turning point for a lot of undecided voters. so what do the candidates have to say to convince millions of voters they are the one best fit for the white house? well there is one undecided voter, ron paul. former congressman, former presidential candidate sounding off next. >> you don't have to tell donald trump how to appear. this is a man who is been a master of television for 12 years. hillary is five different people. so, i don't know what we're

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david: presidential debates can change minds and change elections. it has happened before. right now a third of voters, 34%, saying three debates between clinton and trump are extremely important to decide which candidate to support. according to "wall street journal/nbc" poll. will the debate change the mind of our next guest? once a presidential candidate himself, dr. ron paul. good to see you doctor. thanks for coming in. is there anything either candidate could say to get you to vote for them? >> i used to want to be open maybe changing my mind saying if they would change their position. i have given up on that. it is not going to happen. and that's because i just don't think that we're likely to change the status quo. i think what we have now is

going to be endorsed by republicans and democrats. i know it's a big fight, the differences, lesser of two evils all these things but you know i think the spending will continue. the debt will continue. and you're still going to have a system much government, monetary policy where you monetize debt. this sort of thing will continue. david: isn't it possible, look, there is a directionality that we have to consider. are we going in the right direction or wrong direction. clearly with regard all those things you mentioned we're going if the wrong direction, building up debt, government intrusion in business, et cetera. isn't it important to at least stop that direction or slow it down, doesn't one candidate do that more than the other? >> maybe. hopefully. if it comes to spending i don't think so. trump wants to, you know, remake the military. he wants to outbid hillary on infrastructure. wants to add money to the educational system.

i think he is indoorses idea because some on wall street are endorsing him because he is looking to the fiscal way of stimulating the economy, the monetary system hasn't responded by just stimulating with more money. so i think, i think trump is in that category now because of people who like that idea. government should spend more money. where are they going to get it. david: doctor, i know you're a purist, i love the fact you're a purist on e free market. you will never have a pure free market in the united states. it is matter of degree. will you be ever be able to vote for anybody? >> it will be tough but you do have a free market. when things deteriorate there is, there is underground market. david: well that's true. >> there is still a lot of it. that is free market and it is no, it is not regulated. not taxed. david: 40% of the italy's market is free market but that doesn't mean italy is strong economy. let's talk about something we probably agree on.

wells fargo, what wells fargo allegedly did to innocent customers that was inexcusable. there is even bigger bank some say is doing what wells fargo did times a million and getting away with it for decades. i'm talking about our central bank, dr. paul. make that case. >> well, the whole system is dependent on mon tying of debt. ed fed is enabler. for domestic welfare spending or militarization that i think is excessive. that is bigger scandal. the fed is thief and taxer. they dilute the value of money and make poor people suffer the most. david: reaching into our pockets and diminishing the value of money that is in our pockets, right? >> that's exactly it. it is sinister, nobody sees it. blame the rich or you if you make profit. they tax the rich but won't sort it out because some people get rich because of the monetary system. they're in the banking system or

military industrial complex and get their contracts. david: dr. paul, one candidate, only, talking about that, you know who i am talking about? >> oh, i can't remember that one. david: donald trump has been talking about the fed and what they have been doing and criticizing it for a while but that is topic for another discussion. dr. paul, great to see you. thanks for coming in again. >> thank you, david. david: appreciate it. melissa. melissa: we're hours away from the first presidential debate with millions of young voters expected to watch. how can the nominees attract the millenial vote? as donald trump walks on to the debate stage tonight what strategy should we expect to see from him? >> the thing about 90 minutes, boy, you can't hide. donald trump likes to say, i'm going to build this wall but i'm not taking any questions about it. well you got 90 minutes. moderator and two of you on stage. you can run but you can't hide. ,

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>> don't worry about it, little marco. >> let's hear it big donald. >> don't worry about it, don't worry about it, little marco. you're lucky in ohio that you struck oil. that is for one thing. in iowa, as you know, ted, in the last three polls i'm beating you. you shouldn't misrepresent how well you're doing with the polls. for some reason he beats the rest of the field. he beats the rest of the field. see though don't like that. they don't like that. no, they don't like he beats rest of the field because they

want me. david: that was the old donald trump that we saw all through the primary season but we're seeing a very different donald trump these days ahead of tonight's debate. take a listen. >> hillary clinton calls people who don't support her deplorable and irredeemable. i call anyone who doesn't support me an american citizen who is entitled to equal representation under the law. [cheering] david: fred barnes, "weekly standard" executive editor. julie roginsky, democratic strategist join me. they are both fox news contributors. fred, a different kind of trump. there is talk today saying you're not going to hear about lyin' hillary. hear more sedate presidential if you will, kind of trump. what do you think? >> i think that is what trump needs to do. i once spent an hour with trump. he is far different from the trump you see at rallies, that you saw at debates against other republicans. he was very friendly.

we talked. i was there with rick perry, the governor of texas. that is the trump that needs to show up. the trump the way in normal life and he, if there is model for trump, it needs to be ronald reagan in 1980 in the debate with jimmy carter. reagan, he didn't jump all over carter. he wasn't aggressor when carter attacked him. he said, there you go again. it was great performance. david: i think he said there you go again about 10 times. julie, we have another little thing that came out today that shows trump may be on the right track, nate silver, no fan of donald trump, in fact he is very often quoted by hillary clinton's team, coming out with a new poll. now this is the 535. this was the old projection. what happened today was extraordinary. what he does he bets on who will be the winner. and today for the first time hillary clinton was behind

donald trump by a tick. right now she is above donald trump by a tick. but it is very significant, that even nate silver had hillary behind donald trump today. >> nate silver first of all is not part at that sawn. he aggregates the. david: he is quoted by hillary clinton. >> he is quoted because, that's why they're quotes him. i'm sure they won't be quoting him today. there is projections that nate silver done show hillary up by a tick. nato hen in "new york times" shows aggragation, shows her up quite a bit more. i want to go back to something fred said. he said donald trump needs to show up, the donald trump we saw in the calm, sedate donald trump. unlike ronald reagan, i'm sorry i was only six or seven when that debate took place, so my memory is not that great, ronald reagan, from what i recall was not undisciplined man child. he was actually a disciplined former governor. david: exactly. he had been governor several terms.

he was head of the actors union. there are issues as well that are affecting this campaign right now that are very significant. today the fbi reported that there has been a jump in the homicide rate. we've been going in the opposite direction for decades but there has been 10.8% jump in the number of homicides in the united states in 2015. this is extraordinary. this is a huge jump. it shows we may be on the wrong track in terms of crime in this country. makes his law and order candidacy seem a lot stronger, doesn't it? fred? >> well, yeah. it certainly does, no question about that. look, let me respond to, or something that she just said and that is, donald trump is not ronald reagan. he is not. you know ronald reagan always said, having been an actor came in handy in politics. it certainly did. he was great in that debate but trump has spent a lot of time on television and he knows what works and what doesn't.

and i think he will have no problem. i don't think it's a question of discipline. david: the issue, doesn't he have the perfect issue in terms of law and order in time we see crime going in the wrong direction? >> i think he on the right side of that i can issue. i think he is on right sides of a lot of issues. there is only one issue hillary clinton has whether donald trump is fit to be president. she says he is unfit. that might be a hard case for her to make tonight. david: we shall see, fred and julie, thank you very much. melissa. melissa: the nation's largest generation may be tuning out tonight's debate. millenials could decide the election with their vote but many are so turned off by two major parties and their candidates they're looking elsewhere. fox news's alicia acuna has all the details on this. reporter: hi, melissa. this is troublesome for both republicans and democrats. the biggest generation since the baby boomers is uninspired by major party choices. take a look here. in august, fox news channel showed clinton leading trump

among millenials by 26 points. a lead struck by 2/3 when libertarian gary johnson and and green party candidate jill stein is included. in battleground state of colorado, johnson and stein take 46% of the milnial vote. younger voters who tend to lean liberal but don't feel particularly loyal to any political party are unimpressed. unempressed with the party system and options at the top of the ticket. >> one has no political background. just straight up runs for candidacy because he has the money behind him. and then the second one has a political background but also has a political background that isn't necessarily honest. >> i mean i would like to see the election move into more of like a three or four party format, just to give more options because two options is kind of narrow. it can lead to not the best candidates. reporter: clinton has been

fighting to connect with millenials, hitting late-night tv, guesting on online comedy show. so far polls show it is not helping. trump is attempting the same although it has been argued he has higher hurdle with this group. turnout is the real challenge for both. depending who they show up for could turn the election. melissa i have to give you this, my favorite piece of information while doing this story. "quinnepiac poll" last year showed that majority of millenials really are not okay with being called millenials. just so you know. melissa: why? why? what is it they don't like the name? >> they don't like labels. they don't like democrat. they don't like republican. they don't like millenials. they don't like that part. melissa: i love that. alicia, great report. thank you. >> thank you. melissa: we have trump national youth vote spokesperson and get his take on all of this. so what did you think of the report that came before you? do you agree with that? do you hate being called a millenial? do you not like just two candidates? what did you find there that seemed true?

>> i think one reason we don't like being called millenials there is a lot of negative press about us being lazy uninspired because our unemployment is so high which isn't our fault. it is last eight years of a bad economy making us as unemployed numbers show not doing so well but i think that as we go into th debate tonight we're going to see completely different donald trump than has been characterized by mainstream media and hillary clinton past year-and-a-half. first time a lot of young voters have a chance to see donald trump for who he is and what his policies are and be able to make educated system. you will see polls a lot of support going from gary johnson to donald trump as election continues. melissa: interesting. i know that for millenials, they get most of the information about the debate from social media and watching things streaming online. they don't have a cable channel on all day long as much as we here at fox desperately would like them to. they're streaming. how is the whole election playing differently from the

perspective? how does it change things? >> a recent poll found out by pugh 8% of the millenials distrust the media. why they're not tuning in and tuning out all the support for hillary clinton and mainstream media. a lot of millenials go to facebook and twitter to watch the debate. donald trump has massive social media platform. he will use that with the debate to reach out to millenials as we enter the final stretch. melissa: beyond the debate what could either candidate really do at this point? it strikes me, these are younger voters. both candidates are 70ish. that could be part of the problem. look at bernie sanders, he was a favorite of millenials. it isn't just a pure age gap. what is one thing each could do to gain a little bit of ground with this group? >> well i won't speak to hillary clinton because she is not my candidate and not person i want to be president but for donald trump i think it is not age issue. it is about policy you've seen hillary clinton try to relaunch and repackage herself multiple

times throughout the campaign and every time she bombs miserably with the millenials. i think it is blatant pandering throws them off. donald trump is giving policy speeches and giving his solutions of the country without pandering to specific groups. he is look at america as one, unite us and fortify national security and foreign policy i believe in the final stretch, millenials like midterms, they will cram the night before and with the election same thing. they pay attention at the end. with policies that donald trump is going to present i think is going to move a lot of third party supporters over to donald trump's camp. melissa: we'll see. salvadore, thank you so much for coming on. >> thank you, melissa. david: no winner, no money for the winner. why the person moving into the white house will be facing some very tight money constraints. next former u.s. comptroller general david walker sounding off on who the best candidate is to get things done in our nation's capitol. melissa: plus tonight's debate could draw as many viewers as the super bowl.

what do 100 million developers want to hear? >> she has to perform, i think in a way that is of the highest of expectations. i think in the case of donald trump, look, he is the outsider. he is person never run before let alone be presidential debate but he is going to be ready. you're not a cook, if you don't cook. you're not a firefighter, if you don't fight fires. or a coach, if you don't coach. and you can't be our leader, if you don't lead. our next president needs to take action on social security, or future generations could lose up to $10,000 a year. we're working hard, what about you? hey candidates, do your jobs. keep social security strong.

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many men aren't aware their health insurance may cover cialis. contact your health plan for the latest information. i'm jamie foxx for verizon. in the nation's largest independent study by rootmetrics, again, verizon is the number one network. hi, i'm jamie foxx for sprint. and i'm jamie foxx for t-mobile. (both) and we're just as good. really? only verizon was ranked number one nationally in data, reliability, text and call and speed. yeah. and you're gonna fist pump to that? get out of my sight. (announcer vo) unlimited isn't a good deal if it's on a cutrate network. switch now and get our best deal. 20 gigs and four lines for only 160. all on america's best network. get between you and life's dobeautiful moments.llergens flonase gives you more complete allergy relief. most allergy pills only control one inflammatory substance. flonase controls 6. and six is greater than one. flonase changes everything. ♪ it begins from the the second we're born.er. because, healthier doesn't happen all by itself. it needs to be earned every day.

using wellness to keep away illness. and believing a single life can be made better by millions of others. as a health services and innovation company optum powers modern healthcare by connecting every part of it. so while the world keeps searching for healthier we're here to make healthier happen. david: we bottom break news. kite pharma soring after the lead cancer drug did meet its primary goal. shares are surges, over 6%. we'll keep you update. melissa, the. melissa: fiscal constraints for the next u.s. president. donald trump and hillary clinton set to unveil the plans for fresh government spending. oh good. no matter what promises they make both candidates face highest debt-to-gdp ratio as they enter the white house. here is david walker, former

u.s. comptroller general under president bill clinton and george w. bush. thanks so much for joining us. this is one of the issues i feel neither candidates want to talk about. all the solutions are ugly and painful. they're not things anyone wants to vote for. because they don't want to pay the bill. are all the choices hard in this category to make things right? >> they're politically difficult, melissa and you're correct, neither candidate has laid out a comprehensive and credible plan to be able to get debt as percentage of the economy down to a reasonable and sustainable level. like the committee for responsible federal budget which i'm on the board has called for. in addition, neither candidate has risen to the challenge of aarp whose board i'm also on to be able to take a stand and lay out a framework for how they would propose to assure that social security is solvent, sustainable, secure, including for younger generations of americans. melissa: yeah. that's, i mean, so you hit on the main points there.

that, the only way to really get this number down, you have to attack entitlements. there is really nothing else in the budget that takes up so much space that you could cut. all these other gimmicks taking penny off here or there or cut incremental spending, you have to really cut big ones, medicaid, medicare, social security, right? is there any other way? >> correct. 2/3 of the budget is on autopilot. 68% of the budget is called manadatory spending which congress does not appropriate. the things appropriated by congress represent all the express and enumerated responsibilities envisione the constitution of the united states. you have to do comprehensive tax reform to make it simpler, fairer, more competitive to generate more revenues. growth can help. but you can't solve the problem with that. you have to reform social insurance programs to make them solvable and secure for future generations. you have to rationalize defense spending. you also have to go around a two

with health care. affordable care act is not politically and economically sustainable in its present form. we'll have to go back at that among other things. melissa: david, you have been talking about this for so long. it must be so frustrated for you. is there a way to dress it up and put whipped cream and shock late sauce on it and make it more palatable to americans so we get something done? i am myself fearful of this. we're saddling my children for generations with all this debt. in the meantime we'll not pay any of our bills. no one takes it seriously. what would you make to make the sale? >> first, if you care about america, if you care about your children, your grandchildren, future generations you should care about this issue. we are mortgaging their future at record rates, reducing investments in their future at a time they will face a lot tougher competition. here is the good news n 2012, i went to 27 states, did town hall forums.

met with representatives of america. by 77 to 97% they agreed to broad range of reforms that get debt-to-gdp down to 60% in 2035. american people are a lot smarter than politicians realize. we need a leader to state the facts, speak the truth, bring people together to solve these problems. we need to cut some deals because doing nothing is not acceptable. melissa: you said cut some deals. you have confidence than donald trump than hillary clinton on this front? >> well i don't know. donald trump is deal maker. he is non-traditional politician. he said he wants major change, including a lot of dimensions i talked about. he needs to be more specific th. hillary clinton is pretty much stay the course. i'm not endorsing anybody. melissa: there you go. i understand. david, thanks for coming on. we appreciate night thank you. david: over the weaken we had the death after legend. iconic golfer arnold palmer died

late yesterday. he won 62 titles on the pga tour including seven major titles. more importantly, palmer opened up golf for middle-class americans who never actually played a round. he made golf a regular weekend staple for the tv viewers and changed the industry. the king of golf was 87 years old.

david: what voters want. tonight's debate is the about four hours away. our own jeff flock is taking to the streets and waterways of chicago to find out what you guys want to hear out there. jeff? reporter: the windy city as you know, david, is not so much because of wind in my face on the chicago river but the wind from the politicians.

we're going to hear a lot of it, or get at least a lot of hot air tonight. i'm wondering how many people here, anybody planning to watch the debate tonight? who is watching? no, no? you said you may. >> i'm on the fence. >> what will make your decision? >> uh -- >> what you want to be subjected to? >> yes, yes. >> have you made up your mind? >> yes. >> and? >> i'm definitely a hillary fan. >> got you. we have a hillary live. we better throw to the sound bites of folks who may have the other opinion. listen. >> well, i'm just looking for an open exchange of ideas and some real kind of policy suggestions to come out and so we can really better assess both candidates. reporter: any hope of that, do you think? >> probably be a small part of the debate but hopefully. reporter: have you made up your mind yet? >> no. reporter: you will watch it but not pay attention?

>> i will watch it but not pay attention. i don't care who wins. can't trust anybody right now. reporter: can't trust anybody right now. there you go. a lot of people, david, will watch for the spectacle. it is bizarre. you covered many presidential campaigns as well. usually hear people say i want to hear about the issues. tonight i don't hear people say that. they want to watch it for reality tv aspect. david: definitely more style than substance tonight. i agree with you on that one, jeff. good to see you. thank you very much. jeff flock in chicago on the waterway. melissa: so the greatest debate of them all. how tonight's showdown stacks you up against these historic moments. >> we have a question right here. >> yes. how has the national debt personally affected each of your lives? whether it's connecting one of the world's most innovative campuses. or bringing wifi to 65,000 fans.

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>> i planning nixon is an effective leader of his party. i hope he would grant me the same. >> mr. nixon, would you like to comment on that statement? >> i will not make age an issue of this campaign. i'm not going to exploit for political purposes, my opponent's youth and inexperience. >> what is your philosophy and position on issues, but can he get things done? >> i don't think i'm that bad. >> you're like a bowl of nuts. >> thank you. >> that was a look back at memorable moments in debate history as the nominees are gearing up for the debate stage tonight. >> hillary wasn't likable enough to win in 2008, so how do you get to be more likable? i don't know if she can turn that around. >> you know what i love about the clips they watch, the camera captures every moment, even when you're out there, it's your natural response, you can't stop yourself from

reacting a certain way, the george w. bush thing, when he gave the look, it was so him. you won't want to miss it, stick with fox business for coverage tonight starting at 8:00 p.m. eastern, experts have it all. >> i'll be there as well. for now "risk & reward" starts. >> the countdown begins, four hours away from the first presidential debate, and tonight fox business has you covered. this is "risk & reward." i'm elizabeth macdonald in for deirdre bolton. donald trump, hillary clinton spurring off in high stakes showdown, nationally the candidates are neck-and-neck, the latest "quinnipiac university poll" they're tied in a virtual dead heat. trump at 46% to clinton's 47%. tonight's debate will have a major effect on about a third of all voters. fox business connell mcshane at hofstra university in new york. connell, what do we have to look forward to tonight? what a