job on the planet will be in their place. ♪ announcer: live from hofstra university in new york, this is fox business network's special coverage of the first presidential debate. here is neil cavuto. neil: game on from hofstra university in hempstead, new york. all 1100 seats just about filled there. everyone who is supposed to be here is here. except those that will be going to the podium. the pressure is on to perform tonight and for these candidates the first time a man and a woman shared a stage vying for the presidency of the united states. well it doesn't get more historic than that the numbers you heard well telegraphed this could break a lot of records, at least debate records.

i'm with my friends and colleagues trish regan and lou dobbs. the one to break is the 1980 debate, one and only debate for jimmy carter and ronald reagan. that one had 80 million viewers. i think it is safe to say unless this football game is big, they will do that. >> what football game is what i'm supposed to say? i think you're right. what is at stake here tonight is the future of the country. even though we have records that show that these debates do not influence necessarily the turnout or margin of victory or level of support there is a sense about this one, that this is a special moment in history. that these are special candidates, historic candidates. he, because he is only candidate who has ever not served in public. had a government role, elected role before, and she because obviously she is the first woman

nominee of any major party. it is amazing what's at stake. all of the attention that it's garnered. >> that is such a positive. think about the people engaged in the political process. i don't think we've had an election quite like this. this is all anybody wants to talk about anywhere you go. neil: what is interesting you talk about it, trish, lou is largely right, that they don't move the needle much but at key times they have. jimmy carter, ronald reagan, that race was almost even. reagan did so well up seven points, went on to landslide. one and only debate and days before the election but it dramatically change. by and large to keep the momentum going. >> reagan was painted as a bit of a crazy. got up on the stage in the debate and presented himself in a way that made everybody comfortable. they were hemming and hawing, they got very comfortable with a president reagan that night.

the question is -- neil: usually with the challenger, that is what it is. john kennedy had to prove he was up for that task. ronald reagan famously had to prove -- >> incumbent party initially seems to defining the challenger. the challenger breaks through when you see the incumbent upset. neil: either reinforce the image or not, or not. the crowd we're told limited to three sets of applause throughout the night. >> probably good though, right? it can get a little rowdy. neil: indeed. they all know. >> will they vote on when to applaud? neil: can they call a friend? we'll see. we're five seconds away. this pressure for the candidates is obvious and for lester holt, wow. here we go. moderator: good evening from hofstra university, i'm lester holt, anchor of "nbc nightly news." iii want to welcome you to the

first presidential debate the participant are donald trump and hillary clinton. this debate is sponsored by the commission on presidential debates, a non-partisan, non-profit organization. the commission drafted tonight's format an the rules have been agreed to by the campaigns. the 90-minute debate is divided into six segments, each 15 minutes long. we'll explore three topic areas tonight, achieving prosperity, america's direction, and securing america. at the start of each segment i will ask the same leadoff question to both candidates and they will each have up to two minutes to respond. from that point until the end of the segment we'll have an open discussion. the questions are mine and have not been shared with the commission or the campaigns. the audience here in the room has agreed to remain silent so that we can focus on what the candidate are saying. i will invite you to applaud however at this moment as we welcome the candidates. democratic nominee for president of the united states. hillary clinton, and republican nominee for president of the

united states, donald j. trump. [cheers and applause] clinton: how are you, donald? [cheering] trump: good luck to you. [applause] moderator: well i don't expect us to cover all the issues of this campaign tonight, but i remind everyone there are two more presidential debates scheduled. we'll focus on many issues voters tell us are most important. we'll press for specifics. i am honored to have the role but this evening belongs to candidates and just as important to the american people. candidates, we look forward to hearing you articulate your policies and your positions as well as your visions and your values. so, let's begin. we're calling this opening segment, achieving prosperity

and central to that is jobs. there are two economic realities in america today. there has been a record six straight years of job growth and new census numbers show incomes have increased at a record rate after years of stagnation. however, income inequality remains significant and nearly half of americans are living paycheck to paycheck. beginning with you, secretary clinton, why are you a better choice than your opponent to create the kinds of jobs that will put more money into the pockets of american workers? clinton: thank you, lester. thanks to hofstra for hosting us. the central question in this election is really what kind of country we want to be and what kind of future we'll build together. today is my granddaughter's second birthday, so i think about this a lot. first we have to build an economy that works for everyone, not just those at the top. that means we need new jobs, good jobs with rising incomes. i want us to invest in you, i

want us to invest in your future. that means jobs in infrastructure, in advanced manufacturing, innovation and technology, clean renewable energy, and small business because most othe new jobs will come from small business. we also have to make the economy fairer. that starts with raising the national minimum wage, and also guarantying finally equal pay for women's work. i also want to see more companies do profit sharing. if you help create the profits you should be able to share in them, not just the executives at the top. and i want us to do more to support people who are struggling to balance family and work. itch heard from so many of you about the difficult choices you face and the stresses that you're under. so let's have paid family leave, earned sick days. let's be sure we have affordable child care and debt-free college. how will we do it?

we'll have the wealthy pay their fair share and close the corporate loopholes. finally we, tonight, are on the stage together, donald trump and i. donald, it is good to be with you. we're going to have a debate where we are talking about the important issues facing our country. you have to judge us. who can shoulder the immense awesome responsibilities of the presidency. who can put into action the plans that will make your life better. i hope that i will be able to earn your vote on november 8th. moderator: secretary clinton, thank you. mr. trump, same question to you. about putting more money into the pockets of american workers. you have up to two minutes. trump: thank you, lester. our jobs are fleeing the country. they're going to mexico. they're going to many other countries. look what china is doing to our country in terms of making our product. they're devaluing our currency and nobody in our government to fight them. we have a very good fight and we

have a winning fight because they're using our country as a piggybank to rebuild china, and many other countries are doing the same thing. so we're losing our good jobs, so many of them. when you look at what's happening in mexico, a friend of mine who builds plants says it is 8th wonder of the world. they're building some. biggest plants anywhere in the world, some of the most sophisticated, some of the best plants. with united states as you said, not so much. so ford is leaving. you see that. their small car division leaving. thousands of jobs leaving michigan, leaving ohio. they're all leaving. and we can't allow it to happen anymore. as far as child care is concerned, and some other things i think hillary and i agree on that. we probably disagree a little bit as to numbers and amounts and what we're going to do but perhaps we'll be talking about that later. but we have to stop our jobs from being stolen from us. we have to stop our companies

from leaving the united states and with it, firing all of their people. all you have to do take a look at carrier air-conditioning in indianapolis. they left, fired 1400 people. they're going to mexico. so many hundreds and hundreds of companies are doing this. we can not let it happen. under my plan, i will be reducing taxes tremendously. from 35% to 15% for companies, small and big businesses. that is going to be a job creator like we haven't seen since ronald reagan. it is going to be a beautiful thing to watch. companies will come, they will build, they will expand. new companies will start. and i look very, very much forward to doing it. we have to renegotiate our trade deals and stop their companies from stealing our companies and our jobs. moderator: secretary clinton, would you like to respond? clinton: i think trade is an important issue. of course we're 5% of the world's population.

we have to trade with the other 95%. and we need to have smart, fair, trade deals. we also though, need to have a tax system that rewards work and not just financial transactions. and the kind of plan that donald has put forth would be trickle-down economics all over again. in fact it would be the most extreme version, the biggest tax cuts for the toppers of the people in this country than we've ever had. i call it trumped up trickle down because that is exactly what it would be. that is not how we grow the economy. we just have a different view about what's best for growing the economy. how we make investments that will actually produce jobs and rising incomes. i think we come at it from somewhat different perspectives. i understand that. donald was very fortunate in his life and that is all to his benefit. he started his business with $14 million, borrowed from his father and he really believes

that the more you help wealthy people, the better off we'll be and that everything will work out from there. i don't buy that. i have a different experience. my father was a small businessman. he worked really hard. he printed drapery fabrics on long tables where he pulled out those fabrics and he went down with a silk screen andumped paint in and took the squeegee and kept going. so what i believe is more we can do for the middle class, the more we can invest in you, your education, your skills, your future, the better we will be off and better we'll grow. that is the kind of economy i want us to see again. moderator: follow up, mr. trump, if i can. you talked about creating 25 million jobs. and you promised to bring back millions of jobs for americans. how will you bring back industries that left this country for cheaper labor overseas? how specifically are you going to tell american manufacturers that you have to come back? trump: well, for one thing, before we start on that, my father gave me a very small loan

in 1975 and i built it into a company worth many billions of dollars with some of the greatest assets in the world. i say that is because the kind of thinking our country needs. our country is in deep trouble. we don't know what we're doing when it comes to devaluations countries all over the world, they're the best ever at it. what they're doing to us is a very, very sad i think think. so we have to do that we have to renegotiate our trade deals. lester, they're taking our jobs. they're giving incentives, doing things frankly we don't he do. let me give you the example of mexico. they have a vat tax. we're in different system. when we sell into mexico there is a tax. when they sell, automatic, 16% approximately. when they sell into us, there is no tax. it's a defective agreement. it has been defective for a long time, many years. but the politicians haven't done anything about it. in all fairness to secretary clinton, yes, is that okay.

okay, i want you to be very happy. very important to me. but in all fairness to secretary clinton, when she started talking about this, it was really very recently. she has been doing this for 30 years. and why hasn't she made the agreements better? the nafta agreement is defective because of the tax and many other reasons. moderator: let plea interrupt for a moment. trump: secretary clinton and politicians should have been doing this for year not right now because of the fact we created a movement. they have done doing this for years and our jobs and our economy generally is look, we owe $20 trillion. we can not do it any longer, lester. moderator: back to the question though, how do you bring back specifically how do you bring back jobs, american manufacturers, how do you make them bring the jobs back? trump: first thing you do don't let the jobs leave. the companies are naming, there are thousands of them, and they're leaving in bigger numbers than ever. what you do you say fine, you

want to go to mexico or some other country. good luck. we wish you a lot of luck. if you think you make your air conditioners or cars or cookies whatever you make and bring them into our country without a tax you're wrong. once you say you're going to have to tax them coming in and our politicians never do this, because they have special interests and the special interests want those companies to leave because in many cases they own the companies. so what i'm saying is, we can stop them from leaving. we have to stop them from leaving. and that is a big, big factor. moderator: let me get secretary clinton in. clinton: let's stop for a second to remember where we were eight years ago. worst financial crisis, the worst recession since the 1930s. that was in large part because of tax policies that slashed taxes on wealthy, failed to invest in the middle class, took their eyes off of wall street, and created a perfect storm.

and in fact donald was one of the people who rooted for housing crisis. he said back in 2006, gee, i hope it does collapse then i can go in and buy some and it did collapse. trump: that is business by the way. clinton: nine million people lost their jobs. five million people lot of their homes. $13 trillion in family wealth was wiped out. now, we have come back from that abyss. and it has not been easy. so we're now on the precipice of having a potentially much better economy, but the last thing we need to do is to go back to the policies that failed us in the first place. independent experts have looked what i have proposed and look what donald's proposed and basically they have said this. that if his tax plan, which would blow up the debt by over $5 trillion, and would in some instances disadvantage middle

class families compared to the wealthy, were to go into effect, we would lose 3 1/2 million jobs. and maybe have another recession. they have looked at my plans and they have said, okay, if we can do this and i intend to get it done, we will have 10 million more new jobs because we will be making invests where we can grow the economy. take clean energy. some country is going to be the clean energy superpower of the 21st century. donald thinks that climate change is a hoax perpetrated by the chinese. i think it is real. trump: i did not say that. i do not say that. clinton: i think it is important that we grip this and deal with it, both at home and abroad. here is what we can do. we can deploy half a billion more solar panels. we can have enough clean energy to power ever home. we can build a new modern electric grid. that is a lot of jobs. that is a lot of new economic activity. so i tried to be very specific

about what can and should do. i am determined that we're going to get the economy really moving again, building the on progress we made last eight years but never going back to what got us in the trouble in the first place. moderator: mr. trump. trump: we talk about sole lan panels. we inspreaded in a solar company. we lost plenty of that on that one. i'm a great believer in all forms of energy. we put a lot of people out of work. our energy policy is disaster. our country is losing so much in terms of energy, paying off our debt you can't do what you're looking to do with 20 trillion in debt. the obama administration from the tame they come is over 230 years worth of debt and he topped it. he has doubled it in the course of almost eight years. seven 1/2 years to be semiexact. so i will tell you this, we have to do a much better job at keeping our jobs.

and we have to do a much better job at giving companies incentive to build new companies, to expand. because they're not doing it. and all you have to do is look at michigan, and look at ohio and look at all of these places where so many of their, their jobs and their companies are just leaving they're gone. hillary, i just ask you this, you have been doing this for 30 years. why are you just thinking about these solutions right now? for 30 years you've been doing it. now you're just starting to think of solutions. excuse me. i will bring back jobs. you can't bring back jobs. clinton: well, actually i have thought about this quite a bit. trump: for 30 years. clinton: i have, well, not quite that long. i think my husband did a pretty good job in the 1990s. i think a lot how it worked. trump: he approved nafta which is the single worst trade deale. clinton: incomes went up for

everybody. manufacturing jobs went up in the 1990s, if we will look at the facts. when i was in the senate, i had a number of trade deals that came before me. and i held them all to the same test. will they create jobs in america. will they raise incomes in america. and are they good for our national security. some of them i voted for. the biggest one, a multinational one, known as cafta, i voted against. and because i hold the same standards as i look at all of these trade deals. but, let's not assume that trade is the only challenge we have in the economy. i think it is a part of it. and i have said what i'm going to do. i will have a special prosecutor. we're going to enforce trade deals we have and hold people accountable. when i was secretary of state we increased american exports globally 30%. we increased them to china 50%. so i know how to really work to get new jobs and get exports

that help to create more new jobs. moderator: very quickly. trump: you haven't done it in 30 years or 26 years. you haven't done it. clinton: i have been a senator. trump: your husband signed nafta which is one of the worst things that happened to the manufacturing industry. clinton: that is your opinion. trump: go to new england, ohio, pennsylvania, you go anywhere you want, secretary clinton, and you will see devastation where manufacturers are down 30, 40, sometimes down 50%. nafta is the worst trade deal, maybe ever signed anywhere but certainly ever signed in this country. now you want to approve trans trans-pacific partnership. you heard what was was sayings. you know if you win you will approve that. that will be almost as bad as nafta. nothing will ever top nafta. clinton: that is not accurate. i was against it when it was finally negotiated.

the terms were laid out. trump: you called it the gold standard. the called it the gold standard of trade deals. you said it finest deal you have ever seen. and then you heard what i said about it and all of sudden you were against it. clinton: donald, i know you live in your own reality but that is not the facts. the facts i did say, i hoped it would be a good deal but when it was negotiated, which i was not responsible for, i concluded it wasn't. i wrote about that. trump: so is it president obama's fault? is it president obama's fault. clinton: before you even announced. trump: secretary, is it president obama's fault? because he is pushing it. clinton: there are different views about what's good for our country, our economy and our leadership in the world. and i think it is person to look at what we need to do to get the economy going again. that is why i said. new jobs with rising incomes, investments. not in more tax cuts, that would add $5 trillion to the debt. trump: but you have no plan? clinton: oh i do. trump: secretary you have no plan. clinton: i wrote a book about

it. called stronger together. trump: that -- moderator: folks it. >> pick it up at bookstore or airport near you. because i see this, we need to have strong growth, fair growth, sustained growth. we have to look how elp families balance the responsibilities at home and responsibilities at business. so we have a very robust set of plans. and people have looked at both of our plans, have concluded that mine would create 10 million jobs and yours would lose us 3 1/2 million jobs. and. trump: you are going to approve one of the biggest tax cuts in history. you are going to tax increases in history. you are going to drive business out. your regulations are a disaster and you're going to increase regulations a you will over the place. by the way, my tax cut is biggest since ronald reagan. i'm very proud of it. it will create tremendous numbers of new jobs. but, regulations, you are going

to regulate these businesses out of existence. when i go around, lester, i tell you this, i've been all over, when i go around, despite the tax cut, the things that businesses and people like the most is the fact that i'm cutting regulation. you have regulations on top of regulations and new companies can not form and old companies are going out of business and you want to increase the regulations and make them even worse. i'm going to cut regulations. but i'm going to cut taxes, big league, and you're going to raise taxes big league. and end of story. moderator: we'll pause right there. we're going to talk -- clinton: that can't be left to stand. moderator: 30 seconds. >> i kind of assumed there would be a lot of these charges and claims, and so. trump: facts. clinton: we have taken the homepage of my website, hillary clinton dot-com, we turned it into a fact checker. if you want to see real time what the facts are please go and take a look.

trump: take a look at mine also and you will see. clinton: it will not add a penny to the debt. and your plans would add $5 trillion to the debt. what i have proposed would cut regulations, and streamline them for small businesses. what i have proposed would be paid for by raising taxes on the wealthy because they have made all the gains in the economy, and i think it is time that the wealthy and corporations paid their fair share to support this. moderator: you just opened the next segment. trump: can i finish that -- trump: you go to the website and take a look at her website. she will raise taxes $1.3 trillion and look at her website. you know what, no different than this. she is telling us how to fight isis. go to the website to tell you how to fight isis on the website. i don't think general douglas mcarthur would like that too much. node mode next subject. clinton: at least i have a plan to fight isis. trump: you're telling the enemy

everything you want to do. clinton: no we're not. trump: you're telling the enemy everything you want to do. no wonder you've been fighting isis your entire adult life. moderator: folks -- clinton: go, please fact check terse. get to work. moderator: unpacking a lot here. we're sill on issue of achieving prosperity. i want to talk about taxes. fundamental difference between the two of you concerns the wealthy. secretary clinton, you're calling for a tax increase on wealthiest americans. like you to further defend that. mr. trump you're calling for tax cuts on the wealthy. would i like you to defend that. this next two minute answer goes to you, mr. trump. trump: i'm calling for major jobs because the wealthy will create tremendous jobs. they will expand their companies. they are will do tremendous job. i'm getting rid of carried interest provision and if you really look it is not truly a great thing for the wealthy. it is a great thing for middle class. it is a great thing for companies to expand. when these people will put billions and billions of dollars into companies, and when they're

going to bring 2 1/2 trillion dollars back from overseas, where they can't bring the money back because politicians like secretary clinton won't allow them to bring money back because the taxes are so onerous and bureaucratic red tape. so what is so bad. so what they're doing, leaving our country and believe it or not, believing because taxes are too high and because some of them have lots of money outside of our country and instead of bringing it back and putting money to work because they can't work out a deal -- everybody agrees it should be brought back. instead of that, they're leaving our country to get their money. because they can't bring their money back into our country because of bureaucratic red tape. because they can't get together. we have a, we have a president that can't sit them around a table and get them to approve something. here is the thing. republicans and democrats agree that this should be done. 2 1/2 trillion. i happen to think it is double that. probably $5 trillion that we can't bring into our country, lester.

and with a little leadership, you would get it in here very quickly and it could be put to use on the inner cities and lots of other things and it would be beautiful. but we have no leadership. around honest think that starts with secretary clinton. moderator: two minutes the came question to defend tax increases on wealthiest americans, secretary clinton. clinton: i have a feeling by the end of this evening i will be blamed for everything that is ever happened. trump: why not? clinton: why not. just, join, join the debate by saying more crazy things. now, let me -- trump: there is nothing crazy about not letting our companies bring their money back into the country. moderator: this is secretary clinton's two minutes. please. clinton: let's start the clock again, lester. we have looked at your tax proposals. i don't see changes in the corporate tax rates or the kinds of proposals you're referring to that would cause repatriation, bringing back of money that is

stranded overseas. i happen to -- trump: then you didn't read it. clinton: i happen to support that in a way that will actually work to our benefit. but when i look at what you have proposed, you have what is called now the trump loophole, because it would so advantage you and the business you do. you have proposed. trump: who gave it that name? moderator: sir, this is secretary clinton's two minutes. clinton: the benefit for your family. when you look at. trump: how much for my family, lester, how much? clinton: trumped up trickle down. trickle down did not work. it got us into the mess we were in in 2008 and 9. slashing taxes on the wealthy hasn't worked. and a lot of really smart, wealthy people know that. and they are saying hey, we need to do more to make the contributions we should be making, to rebuild the middle class. i don't think top-down works in america.

i think building the middle class, investing in the middle class, making college debt-free so more young people get their education. helping people refinance their their debt from college at lower rate. those are the kinds of things that will really boost the economy. broad-based, inclusive growth is what we need in america. not more advantages for people at very top. moderator: mr. trump. trump: typical politician. all talk, no action. sounds good, doesn't work. never going to happen. our country is suffering because people like secretary clinton have made such bad decisions in terms of our jobs and in terms of what is going on. now look, we have the worst revival of an economy since the great dough depression. and -- depression. believe mere we're in a bubble right now. the only thing that looks good for the stock market. if you raise interest rates a

little bit that will come crashing down. we're in a big fat ugly bubble and we better be awfully careful. we have a fed doing political things. this janet yellen of the fed, the fed is doing political by keeping interest rates at this level and believe me, the day obama goes off and leaves and goes out to the golf course for the rest of his life to play golf, when they raise interest rates, you're going to see some very bad things happen because the fed is not doing their job. the fed is being more political than secretary clinton. trump: moderator: mr. trump, we're talking about the burden americans have to pay, yet you have not released your tax returns and reason nominees have released their returns for decades is so that voters will know if their potential president owes money, who he owes it to and any business conflicts. don't americans have a right to know if there are any conflicts of interest? trump: i don't mind releasing. i'm under routine audit. it will be released. as soon as audit is finished it

will be released. you will learn more about donald trump going down to the federal elections where i filed a 104-page essentially financial statement of sorts, the forms that they have, it shows income. in fact the income, i just looked today, the income is filed at $694 million for this past year. 694 million. if you would have told me i would make that 15 or 20 years ago i would have made that very surprised that is kind of thinking our country needs. when we have a country doing so badly, that is being ripped off by every single country in the world, it is the kind of thinking that our country needs because everybody, restter, we have a -- lesser, we -- lester , very a trade deficit of everybody which do business with $800 billion a year. that means who is negotiating these trade deals? we have people that are political hacks, negotiating our trade deals.

moderator: irs says audit of your taxes, you're perfectly free to release your taxes during an audit. the question does the public's right to know outweigh your personal -- trump: i told you i will release them as soon as the audit. i'm been under audit for almost is a years. i know a lot of wealthy people have never been audited. i said do you get audited. i get audited almost every year. i don't complaining. it is a way of life i get audited by the irs and other people don't. i will say this, we have a situation in this country that has to be taken care of. i will release my tax returns against my lawyer's wishes, when she releases her 33,000 emails that have been deleted. as soon as she releases them, i will release, i will release my tax returns and that is against my lawyer's, they say don't do it. i will tell you this. in fact, watching shows, they're reading the papers, almost every

lawyer says you don't release your returns until the audit is complete. when the audit is complete i will do it. but i would guess against in they release emails. moderator: it is negative gauchable? trump: it is not negotiate. there. moderator: ask the audience we asked to you be silence. clinton: you see another example of bait and switch here. for 40 years, everyone running for president has released their tax returns. you can go see, nearly, 39, 40 years of our tax returns but everyone has done it. we know the irs has made clear there is no prohibition on releasing it when you're under audit. you have to ask yourself why won't he release his tax returns? i think there are may be a couple of reasons. first, maybe he is not as rich as he says he is. second, maybe he is not as charitable as he claims to be.

third, we don't know all of his business dealings, but we have been told through investigative reporting that he owes about $650 million to wall street and foreign banks. or maybe he doesn't want the american people of you watching tonight, to know he paid nothing in federal taxes because the only years anybody seen, a couple years he had to turn them over to state authorities when he was trying to get a casino license, and think show he didn't pay any federal income tax. trump: that makes me smart. clinton: zero, zero for troops, sear sierra leone row for troops, zero for troops, for vets and zero for health. i think he is not enthusiastic the having the rest of our country see what the real reasons are because it must be something really important, even terrible that he is trying to hide. and the fine r financial disclosure statement, they don't

give you the tax rate. they don't give you the details, tax returns would. and just seems to me, that this is something that the american people deserve to see and i have no reason to believe that he is ever going to release his tax returns because there is something he is hiding. and we'll guess. we'll keep guessing what it might be that he is hiding. but i think the question is, were he ever to get near the white house, what would be those conflicts? who does he owe money to? well, he owes you, the answers to that. and he should provide them. moderator: he also raised issue of your emails. do you want to respond to that? clinton: i do. i made a mistake using a private email. trump: that's for sure. clinton: if i had to do it over again i would obviously do it differently. but, i'm not going to make any excuses. it was a mistake and i take responsibility for that mode mow mr. trump? trump: that was more than a

mistake. that was done purposely. that was not a mistake. that was done -- purposefully, when you have your staff taking the fifth amendment, taking the fifth so they're not prosecuted. when you have the man that set up illegal server taking the fifth, i think it is disgraceful. and believe me, this country thinks it is, really thinks it is disgraceful also. as far as my tax returns, you don't learn that much from tax returns, that i can tell you. you learn a lot from financial disclosure. go down and take a look at that. the other thing, i'm extremely under leveraged. report that said 650, which by the way a lot of friends of mine know my business, boy that is not really a lot of money relative to what i had. buildings were in question they said in the same report, which was, actually wasn't even a bad story to be honest with you, but the buildings are worth $3.9 billion. and the 50 is isn't even on that but it is not 650.

it is much less than that but i could give you a list of banks. if that would help you, i would give you a list of banks. these are very fine institutions, very fine banks. i could do that very quickly. i am very under leveraged. i have i have tremendous income and the reason i say that is not in a braggadocios way, it is because about time that this country had somebody running it that has an idea about money. where we have $20 trillion in debt and our country is a miss. you know it is one thing to have 20 trillion in debt and our roads are good and our bridges are good and everything is in great shape, our airports. our airports are like from a third world country. you land and laguardia, you land at kennedy, land ad lax, and you land at newark and come in from dubai and qatar, incredible, come in from china, see the incredible airports and you land, we have become a third world country. so, the worst of all things has happened. we owe $20 trillion and we're a mess.

we haven't even started. we have spent $6 trillion in the middle east according to the report that i just say, whether it is six or five, but it looks like it is six, in the middle east. we could have rebuilt our country twice. it's a shame. it is politicians like secretary clinton that have us caused this problem. our country has tremendous problems. we're a debtor nation. we're a serious debtor nation. we have a country that needs new roads, new tunnels, new bridges, new airports, new schools, new hospitals and we don't have the money because it has been squandered on some of your ideas. moderator: respond. clinton: maybe because you haven't paid any federal income tax for a lot of years. the other thing -- trump: it would be squandered too, believe me. clinton: if your main claim to be president of the united states is your business, then i think we should talk about that. you know your campaign manager said that you built a lot of

businesses on the backs of little guys. and indeed i have met a lot of the people who were stiffed by you and your businesses, donald. i have met dishwashers, painters, architects, glass installers, marble installers, drapery installers like my dad was, who you refused to pay when they finished work that you asked them to do. we have an architect in the audience who designed one of your clubhouses at one of your golf courses. it's a beautiful facility. it immediately was put to use. and you wouldn't pay what the man needed to be paid, what he was charging you. trump: maybe he didn't do a good job and i was unsatisfied with his work, which our country should do too? clinton: thousands of people you have stiffed over the course of your business, not deserved some kind of apology from someone who

has taken their labor, taken the goods that they produced, and then refused to pay them? i can only say that i'm certainly relieved that my late father never did business with you. he provide ad good middle class life for us but the people he worked for, he expected the bargain to be kept on both sides. and when we talk about your business, you've taken business bankruptcy six times. there are a lot of great business people that have never taken bankruptcy once. you call yourself the king of debt. you talk about leverage. you even at one time suggested that you would try to negotiate down the national debt. trump: wrong. clinton: national death -- debt of the united states. sometimes there is not direct transfer of skills from business to government. but sometimes what happened in business would be really bad for government. moderator: mr. trump respond. trump: i do think it is time.

look, it is all words. all sound bites. i built an unbelievable company. some of the greatest assets anywhere in the world, real estate assets anywhere in the world beyond the united states in europe, lots of different places. unbelievable company. but, on occasion, four times, we used certain laws that are there, and when secretary clinton talks about people that didn't get paid, first of all, they did get paid a lot but taking advantage of the laws of the nation. if you want to change the laws, you have been there a long time, change the laws. but i take advantage of the laws of the nation. because i'm running a company. my obligation right now is to do well for myself, my family, my employees for my companies and that's what i do. but what she doesn't say is that tens of thousands of people that are unbelievably happy and that love me. give you an example. we just opening up on

pennsylvania avenue, right next to the white house, so if i don't get there one way i'm going to get pennsylvania avenue another. but we're opening the old post office. under budget, ahead of schedule, saved tremendous money. i'm a year ahead of schedule. that's what this country should be doing. we build roads and cost two, three, four times what they're supposed to cost. we buy products for the military, come in cost so far above what they were supposed to be because we have people that don't know what they're doing. when we look at budget the budget is bad to large ex-extent because we have people that don't know what to do and how to buy. trump international is way underbudget and way ahead of schedule. we should be able to do that for our country. moderator: we're well behind schedule i want to move to our next segment. we move into the next segment talking about america's direction. start by talking about race.

share of americans who say race relations are bad in this country is the highest it has been in decades, much of it amplified by shooting of african-americans by police as we've seen recently in charlotte and tulsa. race has been a big issue in this campaign. one of you will have to bridge a very wide and bitter gap. how do you heal the divide. secretary clinton, you get two minutes on this. clinton: you're right. race remains a significant challenge in our country. unfortunately race still determineses too much. often determines where people live, determines what kind of education in their public schools they can get and yes, it determines how they're treated in the criminal justice system. we've just seen those two tragic examples in both tulsa and charlotte. and we've got to do several things at the same time. we have to restore trust between

communities and the police. we have to work to make sure that our police are using the best training, the best tech -- techniques, that they're well-prepared to use force only when necessary. everyone should be respected by the law and everyone should respect the law. right now that's not the case in a lot of our neighborhoods. so i have ever since the first day of my campaign called for criminal justice reform. i have laid out a platform that i think would begin to remedy some of the problems we have in the criminal justice system. we have to recognize in addition to the challenges we face with policing there are so many good, brave, police officers who equally want reform. so we have to bring communities together in order to begin working on that as a mutual goal. and we've got to get guns out of

the hands of people who should not have them. the gun epidemic is the leading cause of death of young african-americans men, more than the next nine causes put together. so we have to do two things, as i said. we have to restore trust. we have to work with the police. we have to make sure they respect communities and communities respect them. we have to tackle the plague of gun violence which is a big contributor to a lot of the problems that we're seeing today. moderator: mr. trump, you have two minutes. how do you heal the divide? trump: first of all secretary clinton doesn't want to use a couple of words, that is law and order. we need law and order. if we don't have it, we're not going to have a country. and when i look at what is going on in charlotte, a city i love a city where i have investments, when i look what is going on throughout various parts of our country, whether it is, i could keep naming them all day long.

we need law and order in our country. i just got today, as you know the endorsement of the fraternal order of police, just came in. we have endorsements from, i think almost every police group, very, i mean a large percentage of them in the united states. we have a situation where we have our inner cities, african-americans, hispanics are living in hell because it is so dangerous. you walk down the street, you get shot. in chicago they have had thousands of shootings, thousands since january 1st. thousands of shootings. and we say where is this? is this a war-torn country? what are we doing? we have toe stop the sly lens -- violence and bring back law and order. chicago, thousands of people have been killed over last number of years 4,000 have been

killed since barack obama became president. over 4,000 people in chicago have been killed. we have to bring back law and order. whether or not in a place like chick you do stop-and-frisk which worked very well. mayor giuliani is here. it worked well in new york, it brought the crime way down. you take guns away from criminals that shouldn't be having it. we have gangs roving the street. in many cases they're illegally here, illegal immigrants, they have guns and they shoot people. we have to be very strong. we have to be very vigilant. we have to, we have to know what we're doing. right now, our police in many cases are afraid to do anything. we have to protect our inner cities because african-american communities are being decimated by crime. moderator: two minutes expired. i do want to follow-up. stop-and-frisk was ruled unconstitutional in new york because it largely singled out black and hispanic young men.

trump: you're wrong. it went before a judge who was a very, against police judge. it was taken away from her. and our mayor, our new mayor, refused to go forward with the case. they would have won on appeal. if you look at it, throughout the country there are many places. moderator: argument it's a form of racial profiling. trump: argument is we have to take guns away from people that have them and bad people shouldn't have them. these are felons. these are people that are bad people that shouldn't be -- when you have 3,000 shootings in chicago, from january 1st, when you have 4,000 people killed, in chicago by guns, from the beginning of the presidency of barack obama, his hometown, you have to have stop-and-frisk. you need more police. you need a better community, you know, relations. you don't have good community relations in chicago. it's terrible. i have property there. it is terrible what is going on in chicago.

but when you look -- chicago is not only one. go to ferguson, so many different places, you need better relationships, i agree with secretary clinton on this, you need better relationships between the communities and police, because in some cases it is not good but you look at dallas where the relationships were really studied, the relationships were really a beautiful thing, and then five police officers were killed one night very violently. so there is some bad things going on. some really bad things. moderator: secretary clinton -- trump: lester we need law and order and we need law and order in the inner cities because the people that are most affected by what is happening are african-american and hispanic people. and it is very unfair to them what our politicians are allowing to happen. moderator: secretary clinton. clinton: well, i have heard, i have heard donald seay this at his rallies and, it is really

unfortunate that he saints a dire negative picture of black communities in our country. the vibrancy of the black church. the black businesses, that employ so many people. the opportunities that some families are working to provide for their kids. there is a lot to we should be proud of and supporting and lifting up. but we do always have to make sure we keep people safe. there are the right ways of doing it and then there are ways that are ineffective. stop-and-frisk was found to be unconstitutional. and in part because it was ineffective. it did not do what it needed to do. now i believe in community policing. and in fact, violent crime is one-half of what it was in 1991. property crime is down 40%. we just don't want to see it creep back up.

we have had 25 years of very good cooperation but there were some problems, some unintended consequences. too many young african-american and latino men ended up in jail for non-violent offenses. it is just a fact that if you're a young african-american man, and you do the same thing as a young white man, you are more likely to be arrested, charged, convicted, and incarcerated. so we have got to address the systemic racism in our criminal justice system. we can not just say law and order. we have to say, we have to come forward with a plan that is going to divert people from the criminal justice system, deal with mandatory minimum sentences, which have put too many people away for too long for doing too little. we need more second chance programs. i'm glad we're ending private

prisons in the federal civil. i wish we would end them in the state system. you shouldn't have a profit motive to fill prison cells with young americans there. are positive ways we can work on this i believe strongly that common sense gun safety measures would assist us right now. this is something donald has supported along with the gun lobby right now, right now we have too many military-style weapons on the streets in a lot of places, our police are outgunned. we need comprehensive background checks and we need to keep guns out of the hands of those who will do harm and we finally need to pass a prohibition on anyone who isthe terrorist watch list being able to buy a gun our country. if you're too dangerous to fly, you are too dangerous to buy a gun. so there are things we can do and ought to do it in bipartisan way. moderator: secretary clinton,

you said last week we have to do everything possible to improve policing to stop implicit bias. do you think police are implicitly bias against black people. clinton: i think unfortunately too many of us in our great country jump to conclusions about each other. and therefore i think which need all of us to be asking hard questions about you know, why am i feeling this way? but when it comes to policing, since it can have literally fatal consequences, i have said in my first budget we would put money into that budget to help us deal with implicit bias by retraining a lot of our police officers. i met with a group of very distinguished, experienced police chiefs a few weeks ago. they admit it is an issue. they have a lot of concerns. mental health is one of the biggest concerns because now police are having to handle a lot of really difficult mental health problems on the street.

they want more support. they want more training, they want more assistance and i think the federal government could be in a position where we offer and provide. trump: i would like to respond to that. moderator: please. trump: first of all i agree, and a lot of people within my own party want to give certain rights to people on watch lists and no-fly is also. i agree with you when a person is on watch list or no-fly list, and i have the endorsement of nra i am very proud of, they're very, very good people they're protecting the 2nd amendment we have to look strongly and no ply lists and watch lists. if people are on there shouldn't be on there, we'll help them legally get off but i tend to agree with that quite strongly. i do want to bring up the fact that you were the one brought up the word super predator about young black youth. and that is a term that i think was a, it has been horribly met as you know. i think you apologized for it. but i think it was a terrible

thing to say. and, when it comes to stop an frisk, you are talking about taking guns away. i'm talking about taking guns away from gangs and people that use them. i don't think, i really don't think you disagree with my on this if you want to know the truth. i think maybe there is political reason why you can't say it but i don't really believe. in new york city, stop-and-frisk, we had 2200 muisk brought it down to 500 murders. 500 murders is a lot of murders. 500 is supposed to be good? we went from 2200 to 500 and it was continued on by mayor bloomberg and terminated by the current mayor. but stop-and-frisk had tremendous impact on the safety of new york city. tremendous beyond belief. so when you say it has no impact, it really did. it has a very, very big impact. clinton: also fair to say if we're going to talk about mayors, that under the current mayor crime is continued to drop including murders. so --

trump: you're wrong. no i am not. trump: all right. check it. clinton: new york has done a excellent job. i give credit, give credit across the board going back to mayors to police chiefs because it has worked. and other communities need to come together to do what will work as well. look, one murder is too many. but it is important that we learn -- trump: true. clinton: which learn about what is effective and not go to things that sound good but did not have the kind of impact that which would want. who disagrees with keeping neighborhoods safe? let's also add, no one should disagree about respecting the rights of young men who live in those neighborhoods. and so we need to do a better job of working again with the communities, faith communities, business communities, as well as the police to try to deal with this problem.

moderator: this conversation is about race. mr. trump, i have to ask you. trump: i would like to respond if i might? moderator: 20 seconds please respond. i have a follow-up. trump: look the african-american community has been let down by our politicians. they took good around election time right now. after the election they said, see you later. see you in four years. the african-american community, look the community within the inner-cities has been so badly treated. they have been abused and used in order to get votes by democrat politicians because that is what it is. they have controlled these communities for up to 100 years mode mow mr. trump. trump: unbroken. look at inner cities i just left detroit and philadelphia and i've been all over the place. you decided to stay home. that is okay. but i will tell you, i have been all over. and i met some of the greatest people i will ever meet within these communities. and they are very, very upset

with what their politicians have told them and what their politicians have done. . moderator: mr. trump for five years you perpetuated the claim that the president was not a natural-born citizen, you questioned his legitimacy, you acknowledged what americans accepted for years, the president was born in the united states. can you tell us what took you so long? trump: well, i'll tell you -- very simple to say. sidney blumenthal works for the campaign and very close friend of secretary clinton, and her campaign manager patty doyle went to -- during the campaign,

her campaign against president obama, fought very hard, and you can go look it up and you can check it out, and it you look at cnn this past week, patty solace doyle was on wolf blitzer saying this happened. blumenthal sent mcclatchy, highly respected reporter to kenya to find out about it. they were pressing it hard. she failed to get the birth certificate. when i got involved, i didn't fail. i got him to give the birth certificate. so i'm satisfied with it, and i'll tell you why i'm satisfied with it, because i want to get onto defeating isis, i want to get onto creating jobs, because i want to get onto having a strong border, i want to get onto things that are important to me and important to the country. moderator: i'll let you respond that it is important, the answer here, the birth certificate was produced in 2011, you continued to tell the story and queson