being concerned about what his net worth is, by the way, reduced 800 million by forbes he has to stop thinking about championing himself and championing american people. >> great panel great to see you all thanks joining us "varney & company" now stuart take it away. stuart: good morning, maria everyone jam-packed show here is what we have, wells fargo, is about to be harm erred again by politicians it will be grilling number two for john stumpf elections 04 odd days away republicans and democrats the jump on the bank bashing bandwagon is that justified in two million phony accounts hoped some customers put through hell top management kept it on the wraps profited mightily justify you may well ask. >> going to be a banking takedown part two and you will see it all including questions from maxine waters cleared of ethics charges in another banking scandal. there is a banking crisis in

europe, german's biggest brought to to mes by american authorities either way we will be affected, welcome to the world of systemic risk ♪ it's back. >> opec a deal to get oil prices up will they stick to it jury out oil prize down a faction today. and, of course,, "varney & company" is all over the election the story this morning number one, media, more apoplectic attacks on donald trump number two, liberate barrierian gary johnson another aleppo moment, three trump goes into attack mode follow hillary's money that crooked woman he says. >> just wait till you see what amazon is doing you are watching it now, i have been around a long time, you don't every see anything like that "varney & company" is about to begin. ♪ ♪

stuart: get out of the way from get-go slightly other opening for stocks today, economic growth is still well below 2%, that was news this morning, oil consider this please. the saudis opec agreed to production cut, just as 9/11 victims get right to sue saudis a coincidence? we are on it oil down 7 cents, now the astonishing amazon, set to open pretty close to another record high. ashley here we talk about it every day, and -- we do -- what is driving the latest amazon rally. >> constant growth and expansion, looking for new ways to generate revenue, and it does, and this is a stock up 267% in the past five years. taking huge chunks, and continues to innovate, this is a stock that no stopping the company, for the longest time

catalyzed for spending way too much money not generating revenue, now it is doing that, but also spreading into all sorts of areas we talk about it daily, and by all accounts most analysts say this stock could very well hit 1,000 dollars -- >> -- we will see doubled in the last 16 months, what else you got to add. >> 400 billion dollars market cap about fifth largest in the world it is a crashing into all sorts of areas, now possibly auto markets beauty products digital photo printing astonishing, a bookseller two years ago. >> a bookseller that is what it did look at it now let's go, donald trump, right after the debate he goes right on to attack, three speeches yesterday, there will be two more today, his advisories are telling him hey look you got to practice more, for the next debate. will he lessen. >> a ceo advisor to the trump

campaign you are telling him i presume, hey you lost the first debate. >> no. stuart: b, you got to practice for the second one. >> no, not telling himmet of those things. stuart: why not. >> he is -- the first debate american people saw scripted candidate tried to lie her way out about tpp. stuart: countless opportunities, and you know it. >> look at polling this will fit right into the trajectory of this race donald trump winning, ohio,pennsylvania, florida, we are going up and up and up all those states this will fit into that trajectory, and be able to continue it i am very confident into town hall. >> of course, you are campaign team. >> i am really worried about it -- >> watch out. >> i have been on this program you said your brave you said you are overlypositive look where i am now he is our nominee to victory positivity. >> i think you got work to do work to do that in a second

debate a different format like a town hall questions from audience i think in prime, because he relates very well to audience that is what he is going to have to do. >> she does it she had scripted little joke like a robot out there. >> -- turning to it other side. >> we are -- he will do great in town hall in last debate about 3 innings in two innings in out of nine, baseball, and you are going to talk about this, follow the money, look at hillary clinton look at 1 hundred million dollars received from wall street in this cycle alone 22 million -- stuart: he has said really nasty things, about women, called them very nasty names, being about labeled sexist how does he come back from that. >> strategy. >> look at his campaign manager kellyanne conway wonderful so impressive, look at his family, she is promoted through the his career some woman wander positive smear

him look what he has done throughout career actions speak loudly. stuart: i think you have to come out of the box real strong is he racist no, he is not, sexist no, he is not. >> again, his actions trajectory his business, relationships business experience show that you know what else american women don't care about a beauty panelent from 1990s they care about national security having food on the table they care about jobs, that is what they care about. that is what we want to be talking not distractions clinton is trying to push out there. >> sunday october st. louis you going bab there. >> yep. >> you are under arch everything. >> okay. >> we will see the you before then, thank you appreciate it. stuart: bernie sanders, yesterday, joined hillary rodham clinton on the campaign trail, she joined him i'm not sure which way in vermont a major problem courting young people their solution is well watch for yourself he they double down on free college watch this.

>> now, some people will say our critics will say well you know good idea making public colleges universities tuition free but it is expensive, cost a lot of money the truth is it is an expensive proposal. but i will tell you what is even more expensive and that is doing nothing. we must invest in our young people, and the future of this country. stuart: i do apologize not vermont very close it was new hampshire colin hill with us a former bernie supporter, i am going to say that was pure buying of young people's votes are you going to contradict me. >> yes, they attempted to not going to work look when we supported bernie sanders the first go around, it wasn't to support a good -- that is not what we wanted to elect that is exactly what he is being he is cau towing to hillary clinton the democratic establishment do whatever it takes to vans his own career apparently i am wondering at this point what did she

promise him, to get him on the same stage. >> guess what do you think. >> on in. stuart: you guess. >> i am not going to speculate something there is. >> stay out of this -- >> this is -- >> by now. >> look donald trump spoke about bernie during the rally of his own this is in iowa listen to this. >> bernie sanders could have gone down in record books as being a great, great man. but when he made that deal it was over. now he goes and he has crowds 100 people. nobody wants to watch him nobody wants to listen not that they dislike him, but he doesn't draw anybody he doesn't draw anybody. and it is a whole different things, had he not made that deal he would he have been legendary. >> what do you see us do people sell-off bernie sanders feel betrayed by him i saw it

in philadelphia dnc convention i saw people crying, because this is this is an emotional thing for them they believed that he was their last best hope and here he is, capitulate to go most entitled corrupt destructive candidate for the president united states ever. stuart: are you saying all those tens of thousands if not marine layers of young people who flocked to bernie sanders vigorously supported him you are saying most will not flock to hillary clinton and support her is that what you are saying. >> there is no question, not just millennial voters are not going to supporter hillary clinton it is entire obama coalition they are going to stay home if they do, there is no way she can win in november. >> are you -- are you for trump or just i really antihillary. >> no, i am for trump. >> positively. >> absolutely i came of age during obamanomics -- we remember good times, the stagnant growth, you know

median house thold income flatter down depending how ask 1% first half of this year, i mean we need to grow our way out of this offering free stuff isn't going to fix the economy long term. >> you learned a lot on "varney & company" you really do -- i am proud of you i really am harlan hill everyone thank you, sir. ! . >> i know, great. >> could be grandson. >> no, no. >> check this one out congressman sheila jackson-lee democratic texas wore hillary clinton pin during house judiciary hearing featuring fbi director comey during hearing accused republicans for slilg for trump what do we say so that. >> this is the judiciary. >> [laughter] > company. >> this is oversight this is judiciary academy oversight fbi law enforcement the courts to be wearing this i know rules say don't really cover pins but she is asking questions, about hillary

clinton's private e-mail scandfitch bi how they hammed it tough house trying to move to holding in contempt brian pagliano that vote in a couple days. >> interesting see what he does all kinds of stuff for you on the program including this. tim tebow former nfl quarterback now on the minor league team first pro baseball game of his career steps to the plate, look at that hits a home run, on the first pitch thrown, way to go tim tebow not bad way to start would i say more fallout from wells fargo phony account scandal california banning them from handling transactions for the state john stumpfing riegz right now hearing begins 50 minutes' time california ban on doing business with wells fargo will last for at least 12 months. the banks chief john stumpf you see him there arriving for his grilling, part two you are

going to see it going to be atri outrage from all sides one congressman asking questions today will be with us next. ...as a combination of see products.. and customers. every on-time arrival is backed by thousands of od employees, ...who make sure the millions of products we ship arrive without damages. because od employees treat customer service...

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. >> you didn't tell customers you were sorry? >> that have right to be intellectualitied. >> have you returned one nickel of millions of dollars that you were paid while this scam was going on. >> 1% of a big part of your business is over fraud but that doesn't rise to your level. >> have you resigned as ceo or chairman of wells fargo. >> do you promise to pay back every single extra dollar these people are going to incur next 0 years. >> i have been on this committee nearly 10 years now, you have done something that is never happened in the last 10 years, in united the committee on major topic not in a good way. >> those were some fireworks at wells fargo hearing last week, we are going to expect more same 45 minutes from now, congressman republican will be

in that room, and will be asking questions. congressman, now john stumpf already lost the 41 millions taken off it there are umpteen lawsuits, going after wells fargo. and wells fargo has lost the the business of california for at least a year. what more do you want? >> well, first of all you are playing clips on senate plan was that a rough hearing, mr. stumpf did not go great job we want to know what did wells fargo know when did they know it information goes back to 2011, when 1,000 bank employees were fired for fraudulently activity, that means the story goes well before 2011 we want to to know how wells fargo has taken care of customers, again, about 22 to 25 dollars per individual per account defraud wasn't huge amount wells fargo stealing money from their

employees. we want -- are you going to call for him to resign. >> listen, stuart things happen in business, the question becomes, what does the leadership team do to change the culture in the business, to make sure you turn this corner, and are now a good corporate citizen and good to your customers. >> would you -- >> but wait a second would you consider putting some regulators on stand where were they don't we have onerous regulation of banks bankers looking over shoulders a regulator looking at what they are doing when were they. >> next part of it what were regulators doing starting with "l.a. times" no regulator with l.a. city attorney prosecutors office where was it is cfp.d., opc are in to be found o-- when they tarted to investigate with wells fargo, after that, then wells fargo

self-reported to the cfpb the bureau have come on said we are greatest agency protecting consumers bottom line they came in when this case was over, this was done, at the put a bow on it in a package said we're great fined him for the purpose -- millions the regulators absent through process. >> congressman we got to go breaking news but we will see the you the top of the hour, you are on that committee we will be watching thanks very much that breaking news, we have a commuter train crash in new jersey. ashley i think it was in hoboken. ashley: yeah train strayings new jersey transit train crashing into terminal with force at least one train some pictures one car on train is actually sitting on the platform suggests it came in very fast rate of notches they say reports injuries possibly mass casualties from somon scene, obviously, about rail service in and out of station

has been suspended for now, but emergency services getting in there trying to aassess the damage get those injured people who were on the train tweeting out i feel lucky to be alive no idea on extent of injuri injuries. stuart: i don't know whether i should say this or not my daughter takes train into hoboken every morning, a little earlier than this, but -- forgive me take a break during commercial find out what is going on. >> understandable rush hour. >> we will show pictures when ready for air to markets price of oil this morning i believe down a couple cents may be up a couple cents there you go, 47 bucks a barrel as of now mcdonald's raising the dividend not much 6% raise stock will be dead flat. how about this one samsung, first it was exploding smartphones okay? now they are problems with replacement phones, and got another problem too. with washing machines we are

on it, attorney general loretta lynch now being mentioned as a possible supreme court pointe if hillary clinton is elected. how about that. we will try to explain. and we tried to show you 'on this show in new jersey a deer revenge on a driver who clipped it by accident. car stopped driver opens door deer starts to attack took kick in the chest to get deer out of the -- whoa. video. we will be back. a tough. >> i'm jamie foxx for verizon. in the nation's largest independent study by rootmetrics, again, verizon is the number one network. hi, i'm jamie foxx for sprint. and i'm jamie foxx for t-mobile. (both) and we're just as good. really? only verizon was ranked number one nationally in data, reliability, text and call and speed. yeah. and you're gonna fist pump to that?

get out of my sight. (announcer vo) unlimited isn't a good deal if it's on a cutrate network. switch now and get our best deal. 20 gigs and four lines for only 160. all on america's best network.

stuart: well, how about this, unofficial short list of hillary clinton's ppick to fill supreme court vacancy out name on it you will recognize here it is attorney general loretta lynch. harlan hill still here i want your reaction now. >> yeah. you know, it is clear that the clintons are bragging with this they are saying hey look what we got away with. and you know what? they are right bill clinton met with loretta lynch on the tarmac clear that they talked about something more than just their grandchildren, because hillary clinton was above and beyond the law with this investigation, loretta lynch

you know i cannot believe she has to denounce this this really damages her long term i think. >> let's remember, as you said it was on the tarmac in the phoenix airport, that bill clinton arrived in his jet and held a meeting with loretta lynch, loretta lynch was that moment investigating or in charge of the investigation of bill clinton's wife hillary clinton. that is a direct conflict of interest nobody with any experience in law should ever have gone anywhere near that meeting but she did. >> absolutely, the appearance of i'm propriety their bragging saying look at what we got away with we don't care if you know harlan hill fired up fired up, doesn't like hillary clinton. >> deposit onlied works if fate in theism americans don't have faith clirnz giving american people every reason not to have faith. >> good start thank you very

much look at samazon was 789 last technique now 829, 830 this time last year, it was four -- 486 that stock is taken off watch it go, the opening bell, moments from now. ♪

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stuart: before the opening bell

i want to show you this. a commuter train crash in new jersey. these pictures just coming in to us. there are reports of multiple injuries. i do want to take a brief moment to say my daughter is okay. she had arrived at work in the city before this train accident occurred. we'll have a lot more on this coming up. bingo, it is 9:30 eastern time. that opening bell, well it has rung. [opening bell rings] we're starting to trade on this thursday morning. earlier today, latest reading on growth, 4.1% on annualized basis. we opened down is. most of the dow 30, most of them in the red. price of oil, it was up 5% yesterday. up big time, a little bit higher this morning. opec agreed to a production cut. can they actually come through with it. 4on oil. amazon opens at another high, 832. 834 yesterday. we're on this.

a lot more on amazon in a second. deutsche bank, big story, it's happening over there. they're in deep trouble. it could affect our money over here. again a lot more on this company and this banking crisis in europe. here we go. how about wells fargo? politicians forcing private enterprise to give you up money. the hearing, the second one, less than 30 minutes away. wells fargo stock, hardly under pressure, down 12 cents. another day, another high for amazon, yes. 833 is where it is now. 834 i'm sorry. it went up a little bit more. joining us full screen, ashley webster, liz macdonald, john layfield. dr, amazon, 833 we speak. too expensive for you? >> at 833 i always love to buy things on a pullback, stuart. you know that. stuart: where is the pullback? >> that's a tough thing for amazon. they have two aces up their sleeve meaning you want this in our portfolio going forward.

when they tell us finally how many prime members they have. when they finally announce a number to tracking that, the stock will get a huge pop. when they tell us how much clothing they are selling and find out they're america's number one clothing retailer surpassing macy's they will get another pop. stuart: really. >> more data will be more upside. stuart: john layfield, we can't get enough amazon. will you buy this at 832.65? >> i will probably regress in is a years. i wait for pullback. i think dr is right. i think it is one of the bests companies on earth. think it winning one of the most profitable companies on earth but i will wait for a pullback before i buy it. stuart: larry levin, you wait things to come down a bit before you buy. is that your situation, larry. >> if i can be, i will, stuart, but sometimes you have to buy things on high. amazon is good example.

dr mentioned another thing, cloud storage is huge thing for amazon. another kind of feather in its cap. stuart: i'm blown away by amazon. really am. straight up. never seen anything like it. except for apple a few years ago when it went straight up and doubled in value very quickly. latest read on economic growth. we got it first thing this morning. 1.4% annualized economic growth. larry levin, what do you say about that? >> unfortunately a bad number. it will keep the market going higher, tie the fed's hands. even if they raise in december, they can't keep it going. it will drive the market higher. more of the same. stuart: that's the story. weak economy. stocks go up. is that the story? >> bad news is good because of the fed props. that is the whole story. that's the whole story. stuart: sitting there in sunny bermuda, are you going to tell me that bad news is good news? are you going to tell me that from the beach? >> yeah. we had a hurricane here last weekend.

fortunately it passed. it is sunny right now. the fed right now is looking for something sunny. but they're not finding it. i'm not sure bad news is good. i think not good news is good. this is kind of in the middle. 1.4% gdp compared to 0% gdp is good. when you have 4.9% unemployment it is not very good at all. it is just bad enough that fed will keep rates low. ashley: under president obama, since 2009, average growth for the economy is 1.8%. that's it. stuart: you did the math. 1.8%. ashley: charlie brady. stuart: stock is not moving very much this morning wells fargo. 20 minutes time, john stumpf getting grilled on capitol hill. news, the state of the california suspended business dealings with the back for at least 12 months. what is the story? liz: major parts of the business relationship. they will not use them as

broker-dealer on government bond offerings. not buy wells fargo own debt security. john chapping, running for governor in 2016, state treasurer, he will push california's big giant pension fund to demand clawbacks from other executives. stuart: jumping on the bandwagon. don't blame the guy. liz: connecticut might be going down the road too. stuart: would you buy wells fargo at 45? >> we're seeing muted response, stuart, last year 2015 they only did $4 million of revenue out of $90 billion in california municipal bonds. this is the first shot across the bow. who will follow suit? stuart: got it. there is really a banking crisis in europe. that is not an exaggerated expression. it is a full-blown crisis in europe. regulators have germany's biggest bank, deutsche bank, got its on its knees. here is the question, do they bail them out or don't they bail them out? if they do bail them out, what

are the consequences? layfield in bermuda, what do you say about bailout or no? >> i think they will bail them out. look what they did with greece, when they bailed them out they were bailing out german banks. they already did it with commerzbank. it will be unpopular. this is something that the angela merkel will feel she has to do. stuart: larry levin, do you think there will be a bailout? >> i don't think there is any question there will be a bailout. they can follow our road map which isn't a good road map but it is one to follow. they wait for the economy to get better and they're waiting like we're waiting. stuart: i will break away from our financial coverage at the moment. i have more pictures coming in from a train crash into a platform we believe in hoboken in new jersey. this is major rail commuter line. it brings people into new york city from suburbs much new jersey. extremely active. a train failed to stop as it

came into the station. ashley: pictures we're seeing, stuart, came in at prem does case. at left front car ends up on the platform. concern about structural integrity of the building. concern part of the roof collapsed. stuart: really? ashley: this is major transit hub that links new jersey to manhattan, across the hudson river. obviously the station is shut down. reports of multiple injuries. we have not had any recent word on that but obviously authorities are trying to get in there, secure the scene and get anyone out that needs help. stuart: we're not suggesting for one moment there is financial impact from this. there is not. we're simply bringing it to you because this is happening now. this is major incident right there at hoboken station. the train crashed right into the platform. multiple injuries reported. no details as yet. what do we have pictures from outside you say? ashley: outside the terminal. stuart: show them to me please. that is outside live shot. authorities arriving in force obviously.

this is happening right now. handheld cameras. wobbly, herky-jerky stuff no doubt. this is significant incident. again, thousands and thousands of people take this train line from new jersey getting into new york city. there was an accident. a train failed to stop. plowed into the platform. i believe the front car ended up on the platform. ashley: sitting on the platform. stuart: questions about the structural integrity of the train station itself. look at damage. multiple injuries have been reported. we're on it. we'll get updates on it throughout our program, a significant event. back to the markets. we're going nowhere on the market i got to tell you. we're down two points on the dow industrials, 18,340. we have individual stocks making some moves here. let's take a look. we brought you amazon which is now up a buck at $830. i think that is the stock of the day. show me wells fargo.

john stumpf getting another grilling 20 minutes now, down only a fraction. here what you have to consider about banks, will they be allowed to continue crossselling? wells fargo got into trouble, oned accounts for current customers, opened other accounts without customers knowing. that is crossselling. obviously you're not allowed to do it if the customer doesn't know you're doing it. crosssell something feature of modern banking. if authorities say you can't do that, that leads to fraud, that is a big problem the banks. am i right? liz: they do $4 billion securities underwriting in california. 11% total issuance. second biggest underwriter in california. stuart: they're cut off from that 12 months or maybe longer. what else have we got? individual stocks making a move. show me please. show me the market scan. all 30 of dow stocks, get a sense of overall market. did i do a little shimmy? ashley: you did.

stuart: watching debates too much. ashley: feeling your mojo. stuart: i have got eight of the dow stocks up and 20 of them down. we've got a little bit more info coming in on the train crash. let me repeat here. ashley: hearing from reuters, stuart, more than 100 people were injured in the train crash. there was a big fear mass casualties. there you have it. over 100 injured. we're continuing to get more and more information. stuart: we have to wonder about the future status of that train line, and bringing tens of thousands of commuters into new york city in the future. we mentioned earlier that the structural integrity. train station itself is in dispute. look at that. the roof has come down. ashley: yes. stuart: there will be questions whether you can use the train station and if so, how much you can use it. this will be a significant story in the northeastern part of the united states affecting commuting into new york city. live shots there.

this is how the authorities are cordoning off the area. they have to get casualties out. they have to figure out what to do with the building. they have to figure out what to do with that train and what they're going to do tomorrow morning. this is a big deal. back to the markets please. we don't have significant movement in. stock market thus far. we're down 18 points, 19 points on big board. thanks for everybody participating what we got going for us here this thursday morning. we'll be back. this woman owns this house,

with new cabinets from this shop, with handles designed here, made here, shipped from here, on this plane flown by this pilot, who owns stock in this company, that builds big things and provides benefits to this woman, with new cabinets. they all have insurance crafted personally for them. not just coverage, craftsmanship. not just insured. chubb insured. stuart: everyone, you are looking at hoboken train station, that is in new jersey. a commuter train crashed into the platform at the hoe -- hoboken station. we understand there are a lot of casualties. 100 people plus injured. that is the number coming in to us. left hand screen, live shot, i

think train passengers evacuated from the station. we do know that the train plowed into the platform. it hurt the structural integrity of the entire station. some of the roof came down. what else have we got ashley? ashley: looking at aerial footage. you can see the roof of the structure buckled in where the train crashed. looks like it hit a support beam and that brought the roof down. not only trying to help people get out of this, but they're concerned about the structural integrity of the building. stuart: this train services the valley line. i'm sure not most people are familiar with that. it comes through bergen county, a wealthy suburb of new jersey. a lot of people on the train this morning will be people that work in wall street on the financial district. that's what that train line does. tens of thousands of people every single day commute into new york city on that train line. and this morning it crashed.

this took place, i'm thinking about 45 minutes ago. is that -- liz: reported possibly more than 100 people injured. looks like new jersey transit reported that multiple passengers are trapped. that is issue as well. stuart: now we're in rescue operation. ashley: the structure above them that is very tenuous at best. stuart: this is indeed a serious developing story. i'm not trying to imply that there is any relationship to the financial markets. there is not, period. it doesn't exist. but this is a developing story right now and it is very serious. you're looking at live pictures as people approach the train station. they're looking what is going on. this is coming in from private videophones. we do know that this occurred about 45 minutes to one hour ago. the train did not stop as it approach ad terminal in hoboken. it plowed into the platform. we understand that the front car of the train ended up on the platform.

and as we said, part of the roof of the station collapsed. 100 injured. as liz reported from new jersey transit, there are people, we believe, who are trapped on the train. a very significant accident. as i said, this brings tens of thousands of people, commuters into new york city, each and every morning. the train station is damaged. the train is now having to have people rescued from it. this suggests that hoboken train station and the whole commute into new york city from wealthy suburbs of new jersey, that, i don't know how this is going to work out for the rest of the week. clearly they have a very serious problem. reports of over 100 injured in that new jersey train crash. reports that people are trapped inside. ashley? ashley: happened around 8:30 this morning. so that will be a very crowded train for people trying to get into manhattan before 9:00 a.m. packed.

stuart: some of those trains i would guess carry 500 people. i should not put a number like that because i'm really guessing at this, but it has to be in the several hundreds of people who are on it. live shots now. law enforcement and rescue authorities arriving in force. as liz mentioned a moment ago, new jersey transit said there are people trapped inside of the train. you're looking at rescue forces going into action as we speak. see how far the camera shot is allowed to go. clearly approaching the train station. at some point authorities stop the camera guy, say hold on, you can't go any further. rightly some you can't have camera people getting inside of a building where the integrity of the structure is in question. so we got new jersey train crashing into the platform. ongoing situation in new jersey. again, nothing to do with the financial markets. we are indeed a financial program. when something like this happens we bring it to you. you want to see this.

this is a big deal. also happening today, and this also is a very big deal, about 12 minutes from now you're going to see wells fargo, the chief there, john stumpf, he is going to be grilled all over again by politicians. left-hand side of your screen. john stumpf already arrived on capitol hill. he is in that building. he stand momentarily. you're going to see it. you're going to see politicians absolutely outraged what wells fargo has done. to some degree they will be grandstanding. he have one of those politicians is a house member. all of them up for re-election in november, 40 days away. they will take the opportunity to bash this bank. maybe it deserves it. wells fargo started over two million phony accounts without the account-holders knowing about it. some of those people went through hell.

john stumpf, the leader, has already given up $41 million worth of stock that has been taken off of him. we believe there are more taking off him still to go, whether john stumpf or other executives. there is our guy on the left-hand side of the screen. that is our guy from fox news being told to get out of here, move backwards. he had to retreat from the new jersey train station, hoboken where a train crashed around 8:30 this morning. hour and 20 minutes ago. i did take a personal note. i did say that my daughter might have been in that area. all-clear. she is fine. she ariffs at work, 8:30. that is mr. leventhal, our guy. rick leventhal. live pictures. keeping him from the train station. he is walking around to get view elsewhere from the train station. ashley? ashley: we have a witness saying train never slowed down. plowed straight into the terminal.

crashing on to the platform into the reception area. stuart: we're not going to speculate what middle east happen, if that is accurate, it didn't stop, it plowed into the reception area. ashley: yes. so it jumped the tracks on to the platform, slid into the reception area. so questions remain were people injured that were not on the train but just standing near the platform. liz: indication, ashley, we were reviewing overhead shots of helicopters, force of it was so powerful, looked like at least five train cars were buckled and looked like they were off the tracks. you see the force of it in those overhead shots. stuart: you reported earlier that new jersey transit says some passengers are trapped? liz: possibly multiple. stuart: that explains all the rescue vehicles we see piling up there. on left-hand side of your screen, what you're see something a fox news camera live following you are own reporter rick leventhal. he is told to get away from the station. don't go any closer. approaching authorities from a different direction. he is trying to get a close look

at the train station where this accident occurred. let's see how far he gets. we'll keep the camera on him. right hand side of the screen, pictures from inside of the train station, taken shortly after the accident occurred. again, the lead car of the train plowed into the platform, did not stop. the witnesses say it didn't even slow down. ashley: didn't slow down. stuart: plowed into it. people trapped. 100 injured. ongoing situation here. looks like, say that again, producer? okay, we've been told the last of the injured have been pulled off the train. as many as 100 have been injured. is that accurate? ashley: that's -- stuart: many people on the train. there would be hundreds on the train. many did in fact walk away. ashley: yes. stuart: there may well be serious injures at front of the train. ashley: you can see parts of the roof sitting on top of the car of the train. stuart: we're getting this

information from the police scanner. it is very preliminary information obviously. as you might imagine. at a scene like that, when this kind of thing happens right in the middle of rush hour, that's when it happened, you can expect a degree of chaos and confusion. you can expect that the full details and perfect he details are not yet known. but you can be absolutely certain this is a major trainee vent in new jersey. and we'll have a very significant impact on that station and on commuting into new york for some time to come. may i draw your attention to the bottom right-hand corner of your screen. that is the amazon stock price, obviously totally unrelated to the train accident. look at this thing go. $834 per share. it is up $6. it is up 6.28. 835 on amazon. trading began 18 or 20 minutes ago.

that thing has gone straight up. that is the stock. day if not the stock of the year. may i remind you amazon was $400 a share 16 months ago. it is now 835. may i remind you, it was at 250 four years ago. it is now 835. and still going up. what an extraordinary situation. ashley: incredible story. stuart: on your screens, main part of your screen, that is the accident at the hoboken train station. we'll keep our cameras on that and give you updates whenever we can. that is a significant event in new jersey. commuters coming into new york city. in a moment we're going to get an expert on the phone who knows something about what happened right there. we'll have him in a moment. don't forget, five minutes from now, you will be watching another grilling of the top guy at wells fargo. he is on the stand again. politicians will go after him. because, his bank started two million fake accounts. didn't tell customers.

some of them were put through hell. he is already being grilled by the senate banking committee. this morning it is the house that has a go at him. it will be political theater on the screen. you can watch all kinds of politicians go after the head guy at wells fargo. got it. look at your screen again, now it is up 6.50. amazon, 835, still going up. what extraordinary stock. left side of your screen. live pictures coming to us. taking injured off the train and out of the station. we understand over 100 people have been injured. again a personal note, my daughter who uses that train station got out of there way before the accident occurs. i'm sorry to bring you personal details. this is a big deal today. i have to tell her mom what is going on here. we're hearing as many as 100 people injured. how seriously i don't know.

we're following the police scanner. ashley: the height of the commuter rush hour. which in turn it brought a section of the roof down. stuart: that was from a witness. ashley: yeah. stuart: we're getting other information from the police canner which we're following very closely. there is a report maybe there has been a fatality. okay, that is just taken off the police scanner. it is a very preliminary suggestion that there may be one fatality. that is on left-hand side of your screens. the other picture was taken after the train plowed into the platform in hoboken. ashley: we know this is commuter train, stuart but the front two

cars are especially crowded this thursday morning standing up. they get from the hoboken line to the path line which goes across manhattan getting to work. unfortunately the front two cars are the most grounded. stuart: train right the station, you want to be at front to get to wall street. ashley: exactly right. stuart: you are packed into the front there. all regulars will be. they want to jump out as soon as train stops. hurry off to the path train and hurry off to new york city. ashley: every morning. stuart: this train crashed 8:30 in the morning. prime time for financial district commute years to get in by 9:00. stuart: what a tragic situation. it is unfolding as we speak. it happened 87 minutes ago. already the authorities on the scene, loads of them. i'm sorry to draw your attention to the bottom right-hand corner of your screen again, drag you away from events at hoboken. look at amazon go. it is up $7. it is reaching $835 a share.

remember, please it has more than doubled in 15 months. extraordinary performance. moments from now we'll take you to capitol hill where grilling of john stumpf continues all over again. john stumpf runs wells fargo. he have already had to disgorge $41 million of income he earned during the period they were opening two million phony accounts. all of this is going on as of this morning. john stumpf just sat down. it is 9:58 and a few seconds. he is due to begin at 10:00 eastern time. on the right-hand side of your screen, there is john stumpf, the ceo ofwells fargo. very unpopular banker at this point. momentarily, literally within 90 seconds the chair of the house financial services committee will gaffe svelte committee to order. that is jeb hensarling, republican.

it is his committee. he no doubt will have opening statement. maxine waters will follow. she is the ranking member of the house financial services committee. she had problems with the banking services industry in the past. we'll see what she has to say to john stumpf. it is almost 9:5950 seconds. the hearing will open. left-hand side of the screen that is the fox news camera trying to get a good look at the hoboken train station where a train plowed into the train platform. we understand there are 100 injured. early reports from the police scanner of maybe one fatality. we understand that those injured people have now been taken off the train. the train is now empty. a witness says it never stopped. ashley: never stopped. stuart: didn't slow down. ashley: right into the terminal. stuart: if you know anything about trains you know they carry a great deal of weight and have extraordinary momentum and force. if they plow into a platform,

that is a very big deal. you're watching it live. all right. trying to explain viewers what we've got. left-hand side of the screen. listen to this please. >> give us another update please? >> i will do it shortly. >> what happened? >> still being determine what happened. we have 100 plus injuries. most of them critical. we have some injuries to our crew. there were approximately 250 people on the train this time of day. 83:8 into hoboken terminal. still determining cause of accident. not going to guess. >> heard more than 100 plus. >> that's correct. more than 100 plus. >> all of them on the train? >> yes. >> many of them critical? >> many critical. jennifer nelson new jersey transit night multiple, comfortable with multiple. >> most of them? >> multiple critical injuries.

>> reports that train was going full speed when it went into the station? >> i can't tell you that right now. ongoing investigation. i will not guess on speed or anything like that. >> you have well over 100 injuries? >> correct. >> misdemeanor critical? >> correct. do you have another help here? are there -- >> multiple law enforcement agencies responding. ems task force is activated. local area hospitals bringing staff in. we have at least 20 ambulances staged if knot more. left with some. injure personnel. ashley: wells fargo. >> active rescues, people still down there? >> i can't tell you that. >> how many hospitals are -- >> get that number for you. i don't have it. from the area, newark. stuart: if you're listen in to this, the critical piece of information which we just received from that lady, new jersey transit laid i did i, i do believe, she said there are multiple critical injuries. that is very important point from the train accident at hoboken station in new jersey. do we have mr. russell quinn on the line? >> i'm there.

stuart: russell, you're a rapid transit accident investigator. we understand this train plowed into the platform. didn't even slow down. now that would suggest enormous force at the critical point of hitting the platform. are you there with me on this? >> i am but i don't think the speed was probably that great. probably as low as 10 miles per hour, maybe less. stuart: but we do have reports of multiple critical injuries? >> yeah. you're going to have a lot of secondary impacts. people inside of those cars, probably getting ready to get off the train, standing in the aisle, hitting other folks and seeing things of that nature. stuart: have you investigated accidents of this kind before? >> yes, i have. i have worked for the national transportation safety board for 22 years. stuart: okay. >> i'm retired from them. stuart: now we have got structural damage to the station. obviously structural damage to the train itself. how long do you think is this station going to be out of

action? that's a critical question for commuters coming into new york city. >> well, they will probably get, the train, is damaged as it probably could be. a lot of structural damage. that is going to be the key factor here. they will be able to pull the train and get cars out relatively quickly. they're going to have to wait until the safety board probably gets on scene and takes measurements and things like that. stuart: russell quinnby. i have a huge busy news day today. thank you for being with us. we're much obliged to you, sir. this is on going situation. again the news is this. a train plows into the platform at hoboken train station. multiple critical injuries. that is the state of play there. bottom right-hand corner of your screen, amazon keeps on going up. also at this time, we're going to capitol hill where there is a hearing. wells fargo's chief john stumpf is facing the music from the house this time.

what have you got, liz? liz: 100 plus injured. 250 people were on the train. stuart: yep. liz: problem was they were packed into the first and second cars because that is easiest access to the terminal. so very crowded cars right there. stuart: jeb hensarling, chair of the house financial services committee, opening proceeds in the vision of wells fargo and john stumpf. listen in please. >> all charges must be thoroughly investigated and all culpable individuals must be held accountable. while the fine wells fargo will pay, roughly 3% of the bank's second quarterly profits is tiny by wall street standards, the harm caused to consumers and employees is from the. to the factory worker who had her credit score dinged because of the fraud wells fargo perpetrated, the cost is big. to the waiter at the local diner living paycheck to paycheck who had to pay fees associated with fraudulent account, the cost is big.

to the wells fargo employee with kids to support, who lost her job because she refused to participate in the scheme the cost is big. we will make sure those who were betrayed by wells fargo are not forgotten. it is on their behalf that our committee has launched an in depth investigation, mr. stumpf, of your bank's activities. let me be clear, today's hearing is just the beginning of our investigation. it is not the end. as i speak our committee is gathering thousands of pages of records and documents from both wells fargo and the relevant federal regulators. in the coming weeks we will be questioning wells fargo executives. if necessary i will not hesitate to issue subpoenas because we will do what is necessary to get to the bottom the of the matter. mr. stumpf, we don't yet know what you knew, when you knew it and what you chose to do about it but we know it happened on your watch and we hold you

accountable for the answers to why this happened. at last week's senate hearing, you were uncertain of many matters. in the intervening days we trust you had a chance to refresh your recollection, to review your records. therefore we hope and expect you will provide more complete anticipates today. we need to know exactly when and how you and other executives at wells fargo found out about this endemic fraud. we need to know what you directed others to do about it when you found out. we need to know today who in management is being held accountable. we already know as far back as 2009, former wells fargo employees started filing wrongful termination lawsuits alleging fraudulent accounts and improper sales tactics were taking place. approximately 5300 wells fargo employees were fired over a

five-year period for these improper sales practices an perhaps as many as two million unthorpe rised accounts were fraudulently opened. based on these facts we will also be asking serious questions of our regulators in the course of this investigation. if occ had examiners on site at wells fargo during the time when these fraudulent accounts were opened and cfpb was conducting regular examinations why did it seemingly take "the l.a. times" to expose the fraud? once exposed why did it take almost 18 months for the cfpb to initiate supervisory review. today i don't know the answers to the questions. perhaps our federal regulators deserve a pat on the back or perhaps they deserve a swift kick on the backside, we'll find out witch. we launched this investigation ultimately because it is our job to hold both wall street and washington accountable and protect consumers from excesses

of both. true consumer protection is the preservation of competitive, innovative, free markets that are vigorously policed for force, fraud and deception. mr. stumpf, i know that wells fargo represents an iconic brand. i know that your bank has a very rich and proud heritage. i also know that you have hundreds of thousands of good employees who had nothing to do with this sordid affair. who do good work building their communities. but this sordid affair does remind me why i trust markets and i do not trust individual companies. mr. stumpf, i rye gettably have a mortgage with your bank. i wish i didn't. if i was in the position to pay it off i would because you have broken my trust and you broken the trust of millions of others and it will be a long, long time to earn that trust back. i now recognize the ranking member for five minutes.

>> thank you very much, mr. chairman and i thank you for agreeing to hold this hearing so we can examine the fraudulent activity that occurred at wells fargo. mr. stumpf, the word games stop today. barring -- stuart: on right-hand side of your screen, full screen, we'll update you on the events in hoboken new jersey. a commuter train crashed into the platform of that station. we have one confirmed death. we have multiple critical injuries. up to 100 people on the injured list. the train around 8:30 this morning carrying commuters from bergen county, new jersey, came and hit the platform. didn't slow down. didn't hit. plowed over the platform, hit pillars report supporting station. hoboken train station.

you have one confirmed dead, multiple confirmed critical injuries. that is the state of play there. meanwhile, on the other side of your screen you're about to see, maxine waters opening up testimony, her questioning for john stumpf at wells fargo. that's where we are this morning. watch, listen to maxine waters. >> even bragged about behavior amounting to widespread fraud. today i hope you came prepared to explain both how and why. while you personally told me you were prepared to take full responsibility we're seeing your testimony in front of the senate banking committee and there are still answers that need to be given. the testimony that we have witnessed in the senate trying to explain what happened is not satisfactory and we still do not have all the information we need to understand how this happened.

when the sales culture turned toxic and who knew about it and when. despite your statements to the contrary, any legitimate investigation shows that executives at wells fargo knew, either knew or should have known much earlier than 2013 these practices were taking place. i think that executive conduct at wells fargo deserves a thorough investigation by the department of justice. someone is responsible for the broken culture that led to this behavior needs to be held responsible. not the lower level employees that have been left to bear the weight of the mistakes that have been made. this issue is personal for me. the size of wells fargo's footprint in california means that many, if not most of the employees and customers who were victimized by this are my constituents and neighbors. they don't deserve to have their trust violated by wells fargo.

no one did. i'm still receiving calls in my office complaining about wells fargo now. and one caller described how he went into the bank, complained about excessive accounts that he knew nothing about. employees called the police on him and he was arrested. yet violating the public's trust to drive up profits is exactly what wells fargo did. in the senate hearing, it was revealed that even you benefited from that, mr. stumpf. your own bank account benefited from that deception. i know you said you take responsibility for these practices, and that you are conducting your own investigation, and that you and other managers are forgoing some of your compensation. that is welcome. but let me be clear it is not enough. unfortunately this is not the first time we've seen abusive practices at wells fargo. we thought that you were working

on these practices six years ago. your mortgage executives said right here in this very chair, reassuring my subcommittee you were committed to fixing wells fargo's forge remember i of mortgage documents. yet we haven't seen the problem fixed. we've seen it migrate to another part of your bank. so i hope today we can hear from you, mr. stumpf. because the american public deserves to know what happened at wells fargo. why customers were ripped of so blatantly and repeatedly. you can rest assured this is just the beginning. that we will be demanding more information until we get to the bottom of this. and of course i urge your cooperation. i must tell you, that i have known you for a while. i have communicated with you. at times you have been very helpful to my constituents. so i'm very disappointed and we must get to the bottom of this. and i want to be able to receive the documents and information

requested from you. i have been told it has been refused. i think it is in your best interest to come forward with the documents. mr. chairman, i yield back the balance of my time. >> the with respect till lady yields back. we receive the testimony of john stomach, chairman and ceo of wells fargo and. he held a number r number of senior management positions at wells where he has worked for 34 years. mr. stumpf, rise and raise your right hand. do you solemnly swear or affirm the testimony you are about to give will be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth? thank you, please be seated. let the record reflect that the witness has answered in the affirmative. without objection, the witness's written statement will be made part of the record. mr. stumpf, you are now recognized for five minutes to give an oral presentation of your testimony. >> chairman hensarling, ranking member waters, and members of

the committee, thank you for inviting me to be with you today. i'm the chairman and chief executive officer of wells fargo where i have worked for nearly 35 years. it is my privilege to lead this company which was founded over 164 years ago and played a vital role in the financial history and development of our country. i am deeply sorry that we failed to fulfill our responsibility to our customers, to our team members and to the american public. i am fully accountable for all unethical sales practices in our retail banking business. and i'm fully committed to fixing this issue, strengthening our culture, and taking the necessary steps and actions to restore our customers trust. we should have done more sooner but we will not stop working until we get this right.

this morning i will update you on a number about steps taken to address our retail bank sales practices problem, and make things right for customers who may have been harmed. at wells fargo we have new leadership in our retail banking business focused on insuring all team members in our retail bank provide the best service to our customers. secondly, we recently announced the elimination of product sales goals for everyone in retail banking effective january 1. today i am announcing that we are accelerating this process and ending all product sales goals effective at the end of this week. we want to make sure nothing gets in the way of doing what is right for our customers. also we now send out to all customers a confirmation email approximately one hour after opening a savings or checking

account and an acknowledgement letter after a customer applies for a credit card. we're also making it right for customers. we have begun contacting the customers with open credit cards identified by pricewaterhousecoopers to determine whether they wanted these credit cards. it's a early in the process but so far we have reached more than 20,000 of these customers and talked to them about their credit card accounts. fewer than 25% have told us they either did not apply for the card or they can not recall whether they applied or not for the card. for those customers who want the card, the card will remain open. for any customer who does not want their card, we are closing the account and informing the credit bureaus. any fees these customers may have paid already has been refunded, and we are developing a pros test to deal with --

process to deal with any other forms of harm. for deposit customers we refunded fees and contacting every single one of them across the country to insure that we have a full understanding of every customer affected by this problem. in addition, we are voluntarily expanding the scope of the reviews we have done to go back in time to 2010 and 2009. while these issues we will discuss today are deeply disappointing, and will take time to repair, they do not represent the true culture and nature of wells fargo. some have suggested that the problem was cross-selling, but that is not the case. at its core, cross-sell something all about deepening customers household relationships with products they want, they use and they value. it is not about improper sales practices used to create unwanted accounts. that's not good for our

customers, and not good for wells fargo. if we take care of our customers they will deepen their relationships with us and trust us more with their business. that is good for customers who have benefited from lower costs we pass on and that is cross-selling done the right way. in closing i would like to talk about my commitment to accountability. of the when i say i am accountable referring to the actions our board took at my recommendation to forfeit stock awards the largest part of my compensation for the past three years and any bonus this year as well as my agreement to work without salary until the board completes its investigation. i respecter and accept the board's decision. and when i say i'm accountable i also mean accountable for leading wells fargo as a company that restores the trust of the customers, team members and investors. thank you for this opportunity to testify today. >> i want to bring you some new information what is going on the

right-hand side of your screen. if you're just joining us, the news is this. a commuter train plowed into the platform at hoboken station in new jersey. they are commuters coming into new york city, often to work in the financial district downtown and wall street. update on the situation. one woman is confirmed to have died. two people have now been extricated, that means rescued, from the wreckage. about 100 people have been injured in total. some of them, multiple critical injuries. the train jumped on to the platform, hit the stands which support the roof. part of the roof fell down. this looks like a very long-term problem for hoboken train station and for the tens of thousands of commuters who use it every day to get into new york city. back to the hearings on capitol hill. jeb hensarling. >> who is the highest person in the management team who has been dismissed because of these

activities? >> well,. thank you, mr. chairman, for that question, as you know, or maybe you don't know, within the 5300 there were managers and managers, and managers of a manager. we're doing a full review. >> were these branch manners? >> yes, 10% or more were. >> nobody above of the branch manager level? >> there were branch managers of the branch managers and managers of those within the line of business but we're doing a full review of other control functions within the company. that process has already begun. the board will be involved. management will be involved. as i mentioned we -- >> and when will this be complete? when will your own internal investigation be complete to hold management accountable? >> i can't give you a specific time frame, mr. chairman, but i will tell you we're moving on that directly and we'll get dot bottom of this.

>> anybody at the bank holding company level being held accountable? >> people will be reviewed across the board at holding company activities, corporate activities. anybody who is involved in promoting or supporting this behavior will be held accountable. >> but own holding people accountable, isn't it true, mr. stumpf, the settlement agreement that they entered into with the occ, l.a. attorney's office, no individual admits guilt, is that correct? is that part of that settlement agreement? >> we either admit or deny. so the facts there are the facts that we agreed to. >> mr. stumpf, let's go back to 2011, which i think is the first year we know for a fact that these fraudulent activities were taking place. the records that i believe your bank has shared with us show that 939 employees were terminated from the retail

banking sector for improper sales practice in that year. does that comport with your memory? >> yes it does, mr. chairman. >> so in 2011, isn't it true that wells fargo entered into a consent order with the federal reserve that required wells to cease and desist from certain practices in the mortgage-lending department and that you paid an $85 million civil penalty? is that true? >> mr. chairman, that's true. that was in a different business area but that is a true statement. >> it is in a different business area but i will read from the consent order. quote, wells fargo's internal controls were not adequate to detect and prevent instances when certain of its salesperson nell in order to meet sales performance standards and receive incentive compensation altered or falsified income documents and inflated perspective borrower's incomes to qualify those borrowers for loans that they would not

otherwise have been qualified to receive. this sounds eerily like the retail banking division. so, also as i understand it, the fed required wells fargo to submit a plan to investigate and to change policyies and procedures. so i think you testified on the senate side that you were not personally aware in the problems in the retail banking division in 2013. certainly you're aware of the problems in the mortgage lending division in 2011, correct? >> that is correct. mr. chairman, we shut that division down. that was even shut down. >> if you saw the problem in one area of the business, why didn't you thoroughly investigate in the other? there is no question, mr. chairman, we should have done more sooner. >> it just seems, mr. stumpf five years later your bank is being fined for exactly the same

transaction. again it feels like deja vu all over again. i hope and trust, please tell me the fines are not a cost of doing business for wells? >> mr. chairman, this is not cost of doing business. this has been a serious. i want to say, 268,000 people came to work this morning at wells fargo trying to do their very best to serve customers. they do wonderful, every day, and i don't want our culture to be defined by these mistakes. and we take accountability -- >> i understand that, mr. stumpf, but appears to be a little late. particularly when you get caught doing it five years ago. you get caught doing it once again. somebody has to be held accountable. i now yield to the ranking. >> thank you very much. mr. stumpf, you have said

repeatedly you were not aware of this widespread fraud in your bank until late in 2013. it appears that there were activities going on you may have known much earlier than that. for example, in 2007, just months after you became ceo, the sales quality manuel for the community banking division was updated with your executive guidance, as the manuel states. that sales guide reminded employees of what should have been obvious. that they needed to obtain a customer's consent before opening accounts. and so am i to understand that you discovered that there was something going on and there was a need for you to do this? that manuel also said that sales practices that showed quote, questionable activity, unquote, would be sent via high priority to bank executives.

so it appears that you knew something in 2007, that unauthorized accounts were big enough problem that you had to correct your employee manuel. and as early as 2008 i have documents from court filings showing your employees were contacting your ethics hotline reporting bank fraud and complaining to managers over unauthorized accounts. and so it looks as if you certainly knew in 2008. once more, i have here a consent order with the fed from 2011 that puts your company on watch for sales quotas and compensation screams that pushed employees to break the law. does this sound familiar? >> i, ranking member, i acknowledge that we had a 2011 order from the federal reserve. and i think we've always known, any sales organization, you're going to have to be diligent

because not every team member will do everything right every day. so we have controls built in. we have ethics lines, and i knew, around i still know that you know, you put people to work every day and mistakes are going to happen. it when i learned that this problem has been growing, it had been more prevalent and in a certain part of the country which happens to be in the wonderful part of california which you live. so these are things we've been working on. all of our strategies around training team members which get two weeks of classroom training before they go out into a branch is about doing things right, about ethics. and i i also just want to remind the committee that there are the vast majority of our people who had the same opportunities, the same training, the same goals who did it right every day for our customers. in fact, our customer loyalty scores now are the highest

they've ever been in our company's history. >> let me just point out some other activities that should sound familiar to you. while you were under the consent order for the mortgage arm of wells fargo, this fraud was surging in the retail arm of wells fargo, but you didn't connect the dots on these high-level trends across the bank. do you or doesn't you know in 2011 that perhaps your sales incentives were driving this fraud? >> congresswoman, i knew that -- at least i know today that we should have done more sooner. but maybe -- and not only maybe, some of our people -- and, again, it's 1%, but that's a big number for a big organization. anytime, any one time we have

100,000 people in our branch network, and if 800 people for whatever reason either misunderstood or used this as a way to be dishonest and break our code of ethics and do something wrong for our customer and something wrong for us, that's why we're removing sales calls. they'll be gone as of this weekend. in fact, we don't even think they're an important requirement anymore for us to continue to grow. >> mr. stumpf, some people assume you changed your agreement to add forced arbitration clauses and that these clauses proved to be incredibly helpful when you used them to dismiss multiple customer lawsuits. is that true? >> that's actually not true. in this case for any customer that might have been harmed in this situation, we're also paying for a mediation process so they have a mediator. now, we will keep an eye on the

hearing, left-hand side of your screen. stuart: the real action this morning is in that train crash at hoboken, new jersey. when i say train crash, that's a little -- that's not quite right. what happened was a train coming into the terminal at hoboken did not stop, didn't even slow down as we understand it, plowed into what's called the concourse area. i'm going to break away for a second. my colleague, james freeman, with "the wall street journal" is with me. he has used that train station on multiple to occasions. now, you know the station well. let me just try to have you take me through this. the train plows into not the platform, but the concourse area with which you're familiar. >> right. it's an area where you have a lot of the train tracks have dropped people off, and people are walking, essentially, right in front of where this thing hit. they're walking from their trains that have brought them in from the various new jersey suburbs to the path train which will take them to lower manhattan. so especially at rush hour, a lot of people moving through

there. they're walking to the path train, they're perhaps stopping at a newsstand which is right in front of where the train hit, various shops and restaurants. and as you mentioned, the waiting area right there too. so as you mentioned, very different layout from a lot of train stations. thisit is not a big separation between the platforms and where you have concourse areas and people walking around. stuart: and it was train number 1614, as i understand it, coming in from bergin county, a wealthy suburb of new jersey, delivering commuters to what's called the path train. they get out of the train, they get onto the path train, and they head straight into the financial district of lower manhattan. >> due in at 8:38 into hoboken. it was running late, from what we understand. stuart: so the actual accident, the crash occurred -- >> closer to 9:00, yeah. stuart: now, there were 250 people onboard the train, that's according to new jersey transit. up to 100 of them were injured.

new jersey transit says that there were multiple critical injuries, and we have one confirmed death at this point. james, most of the people on that train would have been packed right onto the front, the part of the train that went straight into the concourse area where the major impact occurred. >> that's right. you'd have people who wanted to, obviously, get as quickly as they can to that path train, so they're gathering up front, they're hoping to take a quick walk, basically, right in front of where it hit, go down the stairs and then into the path trains that are waiting there to take them to the world trade center or to other places on that jersey shoreline opposite manhattan. but you'd have a lot of people standing up front. and is as is often on these commuter trains, at rush hour you'd have a lot of people standing, period. the seats are filled, and then also often areas between cars in the walkway is filled as well. so could be really devastating for people up front.

stuart when you put it like that, you can understand why there are and have been confirmed to be multiple critical injuries. >> right. >> yes. >> and an official on the scene telling local reporters 250 people on the train, if there's 100-plus injuries, that shows you the severity and the force of the impact. stuart: one more point. the train jumped over the tracks, jumped onto the concourse area as james described, hit some of the -- what is -- >> pillars. stuart: the support, the roof of the train station. >> yes, which brought the roof down. you can see pictures, parts of the roof is sitting on top of some of the cars of the train. so a lot of force. pushing the first car into the reception area. to james' point, we don't know the extent how many people could have been injured waiting or walking around on the platforms heading to that path train. >> that's right. there would be a lot of people walking through that area this time of day. stuart: yes, indeed. that's on right-hand side of your screen. left-hand side is the hearing on

capitol hill with the ceo of wells fargo. wells fargo started up two million upon theny accounts, didn't -- phony accounts, didn't tell customers what they'd done. some of those customers went through hell with their credit rating trying to sort that out, some of them lost a small amount of money, and the authorities, the top guys at wells fargo didn't come clean very quickly and profited mightily from what happened within their bank. james, they are piling on to wells fargo -- >> bigtime. stuart: all the politicians, they've just gone right overboard to hit them hard. do you think it's justified? >> i don't. and i think what you have to realize here is that wells fargo did not benefit. they were basically getting ripped off by employees which they fired. they've got 100,000 people who work in their retail branches from a period 2011 to 12015 -- 2015, they were firing 1% of them each year because these people were creating the accounts to, basically, rip off

the bank. be this was a move that did not benefit wells fargo. what it did is it triggered payments from wells fargo to these employees, whom they fired. >> john stumpf at the moment is being asked when did they know what was going on. let's listen in. >> but i do think there is some question here whether, you know, in this particular situation whether the company would be better served with those roles being separated. yield back. >> time of the gentleman has expired. the chair now recognizes the gentlelady from new york, ms. mama loney, ranking member of our -- ms. maloney, ranking member of our capital markets subcommittee. >> mr. stumpf, we know now that whistleblowers first contacted the board about the fraud at wells fargo in mid 2013. and you said in your senate hearings last week that you first found out about the fake accounts in late 2013.

and the l.a. times article about the scandal was published in december 21st, 2013. i have right here your form for filing which i'd like to submit to the record? >> without objection. >> that shows that on october 30th, 2013, you sold $13 million worth of wells fargo stock on the open market. that is by far the largest open market sale of wells fargo stock that you made in your nine years as ceo. so my question is, did you dump $13 million of wells fargo stock which you did through your family trust right after you found out that your bank had been fraudulently opening hundreds of thousands of scam accounts ripping off your

customers? >> thank you for the question. first of all, i -- the vast majority of our people go to work every day -- >> excuse me, that was not my question. >> but i'll get to -- >> excuse me, excuse me. my question was did you dump the stock after you found out about the fraudulent accounts? because it seems that the timing is very, very suspicious, and it raises serious or questions. >> i did not sell shares at the time because anything related to -- >> but your form says you did sell the shares. >> today i hold four times as many shares as i'm required finish. [inaudible] >> did you sell these shares or not? >> i sold those shares, and i sold them with proper approvals with no view about anything that was going on with sales practices or anything else. >> well, it seems very, very suspicious that your largest sale was right after your $1.8

trillion bank was turned into a school for scoundrels. you acknowledge that your bank fired over 5,300 people who got caught willfully defrauding your customers, and a recent lawsuit alleges that you fired even more people because they refused to willfully defraud customers. and then you blame the low-level people, you fire them. you make profits, then you dump the stock. so i just have to say that it seems that when you found out about the fake accounts, instead of helping your customers, you first helped yourself. so moving right along to the next question. mr. stumpf, you've said that wells fargo is conducting a review of all accounts going back to 2009 in order to identify any scam accounts.

but last week in the senate hearings you were asked if you would extend the review period to before 2009, and you refused to commit to extending the review period back to even earlier. so if you were, if you were presented with hard core evidence that wells was engaged in some of these practices, these illegal scams prior to 2009, would you change your mind about extending the review? >> thank you for that question. we have agreed with our regular haters to go back to 2011 -- regulator to go back to 2011. we voluntarily said last week that we'll go back to 2010 and 2009. i've told our team to leave no stone unturned, and if we find a situation where a customer is harmed that goes back prior to that, we will make it right for

that customer. >> thank you, because i have the evidence right here, and i'd like to submit to the record a court case in montana in which six wells fargo employees were fired. among other things, ordering debit cards for customers without their permission which is clearly illegal, and according to the court documents, these illegal sales go back to 2007. >> without objection to. >> so now we have evidence of illegal sale practices going back to 2007. will you degree to extend the review -- agree to extend the review period back to 2007 to cover this evidence that we are submitting today? >> again, congresswoman, we're going to go back to 2009. if we can find -- and we're going to contact every customer -- >> but this is evidence that it went back to 2007. my question is -- and we thank you for going back to 2009.

my question is, we have clear evidence that it goes back to 2007. will you live up to your commitment of helping your customers that were defrauded with clear evidence back to 2007? >> we will go back, and if we find any evidence of any customer that was harmed to 2007 through our review through 2009, we will take care of each customer. >> the time of the gentlelady has expired. the chair recognizes mr. mchenry, vice chairman of our committee. >> thank you, mr. chairman. so i have the honor of representing the suburbs of charlotte, north carolina. north carolina had an incredible banking culture over decades. you had, in charlotte, first union. home-grown bank, great reputation. went through challenging times in the economic crisis, as you well know. but before that time, they teamed up with a bank based in

winston-salem, wachovia. and as you know in acquiring what was then called wachovia which is really first union in what coe ya -- wachovia, the pitch was that your culture from california was very similar to this north carolina culture, banking culture. you know, you -- and as you well know, john grimes midland who's a great chairman of wachovia sort of imbued in wachovia this culture that a banker is a civil servant as well. there's this obligation to society they have and their community. you eulogized him. >> yes. >> paid tribute to that culture. >> yes. >> so i want to think about that culture. because what is so sad to me is that pitch of culture doesn't conform with my experience with my constituents in north carolina. it doesn't conform what i know about first union, what i know about wachovia, and this

cultural pitch that you had in acquiring them in the financial. i know you have huge head count in north carolina, and we're grateful for it. but what's sad to me is the impact of this on them and those employees you have in north carolina. so i wanted to look at your code of conduct that you tout. so let's look at your code of ethics and business conduct. you said in your message as ceo, we are all responsible for maintaining the highest possible ethical standards in how we conduct our business and serve our customers. the code of ethics, in fact, says: our code applies to all team members including officers as well as directors of wells fargo and company and its subsidiaries. it also says: we are all accountable for complying with the code as well as all company policies and applicable laws. and finally: it's critical that all team members have a solid

understanding of our company's code of ethics and business conduct and understanding that noncompliance with the policy may result in disciplinary action up to and including termination of employment. you clearly have failed. you clearly failed in your own ethical standards internally. you have broken and your company's broken longstanding law. you've broken longstanding ethical standards that you have within your company. this has nothing to do with this debate about dodd-frank or anything else. you've broken a long tostanding law, and you've -- longstanding law, and you've defrauded your customers. how can you rebuild trust? how can you rebuild trust, and how can you get through this thing? what standards are you holding yourself to that sends a message to the rest of these folks in your organization that look to you for leadership and guidance? what are you doing to restore that? >> well, thank you, congressman.

the culture of the company is strong, and i don't -- i know -- >> it's really hard to say that when you're before congress for the second time, and behind you was all the settlements you've had for problematic relationships you've had with your customers by taking their money. right? counter to the law, counter to your ethical standards. so it's great you say you have a strong culture, but why are we here today? how are you addressing that? >> yeah. we are addressing it. first of all, with respect to culture, you know, we have 268,000 people who have made their life's work and careers out of helping customers. there's people today who are out with -- >> that's why i raise this in the way that i do, by severe disappointment, severe disappointment. that's all. you broke the law. we make the law in congress. this is not new stuff that all of a sudden congress changed some rules, and you can't have

your employees create fake accounts and take fees from customers unknowingly, unwittingly. that is, that is -- there's never in human history when that has been an ethical okay, right? >> congressman -- >> so for you to say the culture's okay, this seems to me you're just tone deaf to me. the final thing you need to think about and your board of directors need to think about is : the impact you have is not simply on your institution, but the wider conversation on how my consumers can access credit. and the implications on what you've done and your leadership has done has this broader societal impact that is very negative. >> time of the gentleman has expired. the chair now recognizes the gentlelady from new york, ms. ve ms. velazquez. >> thank you, mr. chairman. mr. stumpf, now that you were on the senate side and you testified and we -- the senators

asked you whether or not the 5,300 wells fargo employees that were fired for their misconduct, how many of them were fired because they failed to meet sales quotas? at that time you said you didn't know. now that a week has passed and you have had a chance to consult your records and speak to your staff, are you prepared to tell us how many employees were fired for failing to meet their sales goals? >> thank you, congresswoman. of the 5,300, which is about 1,000 per year out of our team -- and i don't want to minimize it, it was 1%. we have about 100,000 people in our branch at any one time. all of those people through our investigation were terminated

because of their unethical behaviors. we found them, we decided that we don't -- we can't have them here. they are not consistent with our culture and our ethics. >> out of that 5,300 employees, were there any employee that was fired because they didn't meet their sales quota? >> they were, from my understanding -- >> i'm to not talking about the 5,300. outside of that -- >> oh, outside of, outside of that my understanding is that people should not be fired, terminated for missing sales goals. i'm not saying it didn't happen -- >> how should i trust that that was the case? >> and we're doing a review of whatever, whoever might have been terminated for that. >> okay. so my next question is if your review shows that there were employees that were fired

because they didn't meet their sales quota, would you be rehiring those individuals? >> yeah, well, first of all we don't have sales quotas. we have goals. and there's other goals that our people also had as part of their performance management. we're reviewing that, and we're going to try to make it right for every team member. >> mr. stumpf, i'm sure you are aware that wells fargo is the most active sba 7a lender in the country. >> correct. >> as ranking member of the house small business committee, i am very concerned that the legal practices uncovered by the cfpb on the consumer side may have spread to the small business side. were your front-line employees under similar pressure to cross-sell products to -- stuart: all right, everyone. two screens. on the left-hand side of the screen, the hearing looking at

wells fargo. the politicians are going after john stumpf, the man who runs wells fargo. so far a republican has said he is severely disappointed in wells fargo. a democrat has said it is, the bank is, a school for scoundrels. so far it has not been as fiery as the senate hearing ten days ago. right-hand side of your screen, a developing story of significance. a train crashed into the terminal, actually, at hoboken train station. so far we understand there are multiple critically-injured people, up to 100 people injured in total. we understand that one person has been confirmed dead. we also have on our news line right now congressman albio suarez who is the representative for the hoboken district. mr. congressman, welcome to the program. can you hear me okay? >> yes, good morning. stuart: good morning, sir. i understand that you have you have some detail on how the crash went down, what exactly

happened that. tell us, please. >> well, i spoke to one of the executive directors at the north hudson regional fire and rescue, and he's telling me that there were 100 people on the train, one confirmed dead, two critically. apparently, the train went airborne and crashed into an empty store. he also mentioned to me that the conductor is still alive and they're hopeful that they can get information to see what happened in this accident. stuart: congressman, i want to repeat that. you say a witness said the train went airborne. could you get into that a little bit more? because that sounds dramatic, indeed. >> no -- yeah. this is not a witness, this is one of the executive directors of the north hudson regional fire and rescue who's present on the site. so he's in charge of, basically, trying to find out what happened. stuart: i'm just trying to describe the scene for our viewers. it seems to us that the train

came into the station, did not slow down, crashed into the barrier at the end and then, according to the person that you spoke to, became airborne and literally plowed into the concourse area which is right at the very front, in front of the train, is that -- that's accurate, sir? >> yes. he tells me that it plowed -- run into an empty store. stuart: can you give me any understanding of how long it just might take to get that train station back in normal working order? i understand that part of the roof has collapsed and that the structural integrity of the station may have been challenged. can you give me an update on that, sir? >> i don't have an update on that. right now we're worried about how many people are hurt and making sure that everybody gets to a hospital. that's my understanding. but as i get news during the days, i'm sure he'll give me an update on that. stuart: congressman, thank you very much for joining us, sir. that is your district, and we

appreciate you being with us. thank you very much, sir. okay, right-hand side of your screen, late developments in the train crash in hoboken. one dead, a hundred injured, 250 people on the train, many, multiple critical injuries. we now have sound from some of the passengers describing what happened. they were on the train. roll that tape. >> that was life or death. it was no indication of whether or not the train was going to actually stop. we didn't know we collided into something, we just thought something exploded. stuart: okay. it might have been difficult to cash exactly what she said there, but she didn't know for some time that the train had crashed into the far end of where it was going to. she thought there was an explosion. i mean, that's entirely understandable. it must have made one enormous crash -- >> reports coming in that the train came barreling into the station, hit the concrete barrier and then went airborne and hit the roof. so that's just addenda to what

the congressman was telling us. stuart: this is an extremely important story because that train line carries tens of thousands of people a day. >> yes. stuart: from new jersey into primarily lower manhattan, into the financial district of manhattan. james, you used to take a similar train, i believe. >> that's right. and hoping right now my neighbors are okay. these are coming from bergin county. i'm in union county but, obviously, a lot of people that we would know in the financial community take those trains every day into the city. and i think what's really chilling when we look at those pictures and we hear that it jumped over the barrier and hit a store, i can only guess that means it went airborne across about a 30 or 40-foot wide area of concrete where lots of commuters are walking every day. so if it really i ends up being only one fatality, that's quite amazing, and that may have

something to do with timing. i don't know if people who were walking in the area could hear it coming, maybe they saw it, were able to run out of the way or maybe just fortunate that another train hadn't just unloaded people who would have been walking through that area then. but it would suggest a really horrible situation. >> maybe you could speak to this. it's unusual it was traveling with that amount of force to enable it to hit the barrier and jump onto the platform because normally the train's calling into the station -- >> it's what's called a pusher train, and that's why the front calls may have derailed. hoboken sits just 7 miles west of new york city and is an extremely important transportation hub for wall street. stuart: which means what happens to the commute for tens of thousands of people tomorrow morning? this is a pure guess, but i can't see that train station being back up and running in normal condition, operating condition by tomorrow morning. >> no. stuart: there is a commute problem into america's huge city, new york city, the center

of america's financial world. there's going to be a huge problem getting in to work and probably getting out from work this afternoon. >> yes. stuart: now, may i draw your attention, please, to the bottom right-hand corner of your screen. that is where amazon's stock is quoted. we're keeping that -- we call it a bug. we're keeping it right up there. $834 per share was the all-time high. it's still up nearly $4 at $832. we're putting that on the screen because the performance of amazon's stock has been absolutely extraordinary. believe me, it has doubled in less than 16 months. that is an extraordinary development. a company of the size of amazon, liz, i think it's the fourth or fifth largest -- >> yes. it's pushing on $400 billion. it's bigger than berkshire -- in market cap. bigger than berkshire hathaway and exxonmobil right now. stuart: we're keeping our eyes on it simply because it's a remarkable company. the ntsb is sending a go team to

the crash site as expected, that's perfectly normal under the circumstances of this crash in hoboken, new jersey. look, there is absolutely no financial significance to what's going on in hoboken at this point. none whatsoever. be we bring it to use because it is a serious and developing accident situation in new york city and in new jersey. the market itself doing absolutely nothing. we're down 12 points on the dow jones industrial average. it's amazon, that is the stock that we're watching. left-hand side of your screen, the ongoing grilling of john stumpf. i have to say that thus far in the proceedings it's been nothing like as fiery as what we saw previously when the senate was having a go at john stumpf. that was a very big deal. we have heard john stumpf -- one republican said they were severely disappointed with him and -- oh, i want to go to him now. this is brad sherman, democrat,

southern california. going right after wells fargo, let's listen. >> to ask what new account opening quotas they had for their bank tellers, how many people they fired for not meeting their quotas or how many people they fired more opening phony accounts. we have wells fargo before me, but i don't think, mr. stumpf, that you should be alone in this joyous experience. your colleagues should at least come forward with some assurance. we are now engaged in an important national ritual where the ceo comes before the representatives of the american people to apologize, to the take full responsibility -- to take full responsibility, to do so humbly. mr. stumpf, welcome to washington. what plane did you fly on, what airline? >> virgin american. >> and when you came to the

senate? >> i think it was united, but it was one of the two. >> okay. it shows wall street's learned something. thank you. >> thank you. >> now, you've got these forced arbitration clauses in your agreement with your customers. you've said, oh, they can have mediation too. some of them want their day in court. are you going to hold them to these forced arbitration clauses and screw them again out of their day in out court, or are you willing to waive those clauses and say if you're caught up in this, you get your choice whether you have arbitration or not? >> thank you, mr. congressman. i believe in arbitration, i think it's a fair way to -- >> but your customers may want something else. are you going to deprive them of that? >> no, we're not. we're going to have them -- we're going to pay for a mediator -- >> what -- they want their day in court, are you going to screw

them out of that? >> this is not -- we're taking this very seriously. i told our -- >> you let them go to court if they want to go to court -- >> we're going to -- >> yes or no? >> no, but with an explanation -- >> no, but. okay, thank you. that's a no. this sham was not an attempt to steal a few million dollars in fees from your customers, although that's important. because you could say that few million dollars wasn't material. what was material is the price of your stock. you opened two million phony accounts and then went and told -- and it had to be material, because you were bragging about it to the people investing in your stock -- that you had higher penetration rates, more accounts per customer, that the number of banking customers that had credit cards had grown from the mid 20% up to 42%. so it had to be material you were talking about it. the peak firings, according to your own documents, was in 2013. so you knew you had a problem

then -- >> correct. >> why didn't you tell shareholders our penetration rates are phony, our new accounts are phony accounts, and when we tell you we're deepening our relationship with our customers, we're doing so by putting them through the wringer? what internal audit system did you have that you that you didn't have a material problem? >> congressman, i have to to push back here. the, this is the behavior of people that we found that we did not want, and the majority of everything we do is right by our customers. >> mr. stumpf, you were brag -- you were firing, according to your own documents, the highest number of people in 2013 but bragging about your penetration rates, the number of accounts opening in 2014. so you knew it was material to shareholders, and you knew it was a phony number that you'd fired people from, for falsifying. >> congressman, may i just have a second? because we've gone back and

looked -- the two million accounts could not be rule ared out. we don't know if those are good accounts or not good accounts because we've already looked at 20,000 credit cards -- >> reclaiming my time, sir. you fired 5,300 people, you took 5,300 good americans and turned them into felons with a system a you created, benefited from and drove your stock price up by brag about your levels of new accounts. >> congressman, i have to disagree with that. >> i'm not surprised. the -- we have institutions that are too big to fail. in 2008 we pound that they were too -- we found that they were too big not to bail. eric holder has told us they are too big to jail saying that he fears for putting them -- for bringing a criminal indictment. we now learn that they're too big to manage, too big to regulate, it's time to break them up. >> time of the gentleman has expired. the chair now recognizes the gentleman from missouri, mr. luetkemeyer, chairman of our housing and insurance subcommittee --

stuart: split screen that our view arers are watching. left-hand side of the screen, obviously, that is the hearing on capitol hill where john stumpf, the ceo of wells fargo, has been facing some very hostile questioning from politicians. not that many fireworks thus far. the senate committee hearings was much more rowdy, shall we say, last time around. that that hearing continues. right-hand side of your screen, the train accident in hoboken, new jersey. one confirmed dead, multiple critical injuries, up to 100 people ininjured. -- injured. the structural integrity of the hoboken train station in some doubt. the commute from new jersey into new york city, again, in some doubt later on today and, certainly, for the rest of this week. an ongoing situation there. back to wells fargo, and joining us now is john chang, he is the state treasurer of the state of california. mr. chang, welcome to the program. as i understand it, you have banned the state of california from doing business wells fargo

for at least the next 12 months, is that accurate, sir? >> good morning, stuart. it's a pleasure to be with you. i have suspended three lines of business, the most highly profitable business lines for wells fargo in their engagement with the state of california, so that's correct. stuart: that is a form of punishment of wells fargo, is it not? >> yeah. we want to incentivize much stronger, better behavior by wells fargo. they breached a very important trust with the customers of california and elsewhere. people put their hard-earned dollars in trust with hem. they want to grow, they want long-term strategy for financial security and, unfortunately, what we witnessed was otherwise. stuart: are you setting conditions on wells fargo before they can get back to doing business the state of california, and if so, what are those conditions? >> yes. we want to make sure that they comply with all the appropriate penalties and enforcement regulations provided by various agencies. we want to make sure they improve their practices.

clearly, something went wrong with their dedication to their mission. you had a culture that ran amok and what happened to the values of protecting and enhancing the financial security of their customers. so we want to make sure that progress is made on that front. stuart: do you want wells fargo and other banks to stop cross-selling? let me explain to our viewers how i think about this. if i open an account with a bank, the bank then tries to sell me other facilities, other services like a credit card or a mortgage or an ira, for example. that's what gave rise to this abuse of selling, if you like. do you want to see that practice be stopped entirely? >> they have to have a better culture as to -- there's a difference between sharing information and applying pressure, frankly, misrepresenting and creating accounts that aren't, are not needed. but i do want to make sure that in today's day and age especially with technology but just as importantly personal

customer services that they get the information so that they can make a better informed judgment as to what they need in their own individual or business case. stuart: okay. what -- can you spell it out for us? what would you like to see wells fargo do? >> first of all, the admission and then, secondly, what they're going to do to change their culture to make sure they have best practices. and at the heart of this, they have to reestablish trust. we know that it takes a long period of time to establish trust, and so that's by engagement, that's by practice, that's by spoken word, that's by being an example of great behavior, good service, community participation. and they broke it. and they broke it bigtime. people are incredibly disappointed. they were impacted severely, and so they're going to have to immediately address all those issues, admit to the problems they concerned and come up with a course of corrective action. stuart: well, just moments ago,

mr. chapping, john stumpf -- mr. chang, john stumpf said that all selling goals, in other words, attempting to increase sales by putting goals to the sales people, all sales goals halted at the end of this week. so they really are making a big change there. they've also said that all fees have been and will be refunded to anybody who had an account opened without them knowing about it, all fees refunded, and all customers will be contacted. sounds like they're going part of the way to do what you want them to do, would you agree with that? >> yeah. those are, those are three good initial steps. we ought to think about what you did to the employees who were making $12 an hour on average and today are on the unemployment lines, you have to think about the compensation packages that were paid to the executives in the past despite this misrepresentation to the public and as a california investor to us, how you

establish trust. and, you know, we took you by your word. so they have, they have a way to go, but i appreciate those three initial steps, but we're looking for far more. >> mr. chang, i have to ask a difficult question. there is some political grandstanding going on here. banks are unpopular, politicians up for re-election are eager to pile on and beat up a bank like wells fargo. i believe that you're up for re-election. i know it's a pejorative question, but are you to some degree politically grandstanding? >> so the answer is, no, i am not up more re-election. stuart: sorry, i didn't know that, sir. >> i want wells fargo -- stuart: i'm sorry. >> oh, no worries. i want wells fargo to do extraordinarily well, but we have to make a meaningful statement. we have to take important action to make sure that they progress and do the right thing. i don't benefit by wells fargo not doing well. we bank with them. we have a very serious

relationship. so i want them to succeed in making sure that that i provide capital for the for small businesses in california, that they help finance affordable housing, but you can't do it on the backs by charging fees of individuals who have no sense and no financial security and no trust mihm. stuart: mr. be chang, i do believe you're running for governor in 2018, is that correct? >> that is correct. stuart: got it. thanks very much for being with us on a very important day. i'm going to switch back to the hearing. congressman meeks is asking questions of john stumpf, it's getting fiery. let's listen in. >> because that's how you get your bonuses, is that not correct? because x amount of dollars come in. but yet are you telling me you don't have the responsibility of losing your position when you have a culture of being fined and costing the bank year after year, month after month, there's no responsibility, you can just stay to be the chairman and the

ceo? is that what you want us to believe? >> congressman, that is not the case. i serve at the pleasure of the board. i'm willing -- >> and the whole board needs to go if they're going to allow someone to be in charge when time after time you just talked about you fired 5,300 employees. when you found to out that they were doing something wrong, they were fired. >> correct. >> because they were doing something wrong. well, something is going wrong at this bank, and you are the head of it. so shouldn't the board, from your own admission, if the buck stops with you as you came out here and said i apologize, the buck stops with me, and you have to also admit that criminal activity was going on in your bank, then you should be fired because it stopped with you. >> well, again, congressman, the board has that power. that's their -- and my energy right now is to lead this company forward. i also want to remind -- >> but you came here and you started out by saying i

apologize, etc. if somebody walked into wells fargo tomorrow and robbed your bank or defrauded your bank and then after they're caught they say, well, i'm sorry, i'm going to take full responsibility for robbing this bank and i am sorry that i robbed this bank. so, please, don't prosecute me because i am sorry now that i robbed this bank, would you allow the person just to walk out after robbing your bank because he is now sorry that he robbed the bank after he took the money already? >> congressman, i see something very different between being honest and breaking our code of ethics and taking advantage of -- >> you didn't break code of ethics? i -- >> do you realize, would you admit this, that not only your bank have a black eye, that your bank, wells fargo, has given the entire financial service industry a black eye? your responsibility. >> yeah, i'm -- >> you heard mr. sherman, he

wants -- and i agree with him -- he wants everybody to come in here. why? there's only one reason why. your bank, you, ceo, chairman, basically for me, was on top of what's basically been a criminal enterprise. because when i look at consistency, time after time after time and time again you have to get fines. now, it must mean that you're making a lot of money because it's easier to pay fine because you know that nothing else is going to happen to you. so you pay the fine, you get away, you make a lot of money. now, i'm upset. i'm from new york. a lot of times i believe in financial institutions, that's why i'm so mad. i believe they make our country better until they rip us off. and they ripped us off tremendously. taking advantage of customers and consumers when we had the financial crisis. i've got individuals right now who are on the street, on the street. they're not back in their homes. they have these fraudulent mortgages. nobody says, oh, i'm sorry that

we gave you these fraudulent mortgage, we're going to put you back in your home, and we're going to make sure that everything is okay. no one has done that for them. you haven't volunteered to do that. will wells fargo put people back in their homes. >> congressman, if i could just respond for a second, please. there's no question we don't do everything right. we make mistakes, and we're upping our -- >> who should pay for it? who's accountable for it? >> we're going to make it right. >> your vp made a $125,000 bonus package. who is paying for it? who's taking responsibility for it? don't come tell me you're sorry. >> we're taking care of every one of our customers who is impacted. >> time of the gentleman has expired. the chair now recognizes the gentleman from wisconsin, mr. duffy, chairman of the oversight -- stuart: okay. let me explain again split screen, left-hand side some fireworks from congressman greg meeks of new york really going after john john stumpf with thes

fargo bank. right-hand side of your screen, the aftermath of a train crash in hoboken, new jersey, where a commuter train plowed into a concourse area. one dead, 100 injured, many critically injured. we have some sound now from somebody on the scene, new jersey transit worker. roll that tape, please. >> yes, sir. i was about 30 feet away from the train when it pulled into the station, and i on observed them coming in at a high rate of spied. it went over the bumper block, basically through the air, traveled about another 40 feet, came to a rest. when it mitt the wall of the -- when it hit the wall of the waiting room. stuart: the train hit the terminal, launched into the air, spewed across the concourse area and hit a store. the gentleman there from new jersey transit confirmed that's what happened. on our news line is jim finen

who was on the train, i believe, jim, you were in the first train car right at the moment of impact. tell me, how did you get out of that train? >> luckily, i was able to get out there true the doors. they got the doors owned pretty quickly. you know, the jersey transit workers respond toed pretty quickly to the accident. stuart: so take me through this. you're in the front of the train, it didn't stop as it came into the station. you heard what, a huge bang, an explosion, you're thrown off your feet? what happened to the other people? take me through it, jim. >> correct. as we're coming into the station, you felt that we were just coming in too fast. you could feel it. we were coming in at full tilt, at full speed. there was a, you know, there was a very loud boom when, i guess, we hit the barrier at the end where that typically stops the train. and at that point, you know, it was like you were bouncing up and down in your seat.

i was, luckily, i was sitting. the people who were standing at that point were being tossed about the train car. and we were bouncing around for a good 30, 40 seconds until we, what i know now, we crashed into the wall. and that's really the only thing that stopped the train. at that point, i was sitting by the emergency exit, and myself and another gentleman, you know, popped the window out, he jumped out the window, we began helping the few of the passengers who were right there, i think two other people exited through that window. and at that point the jersey transit workers had the doors open, got the doors open so everyone was able to exit the train through the doors. stuart: well, jim, what's interesting here is that normally, of course, as you well know, these trains slow down as

they're approaching the terminal. as you've described it, this train did not. were you, were you ware of this? -- aware of this? you figured out -- you were being bumped around before impact, right? >> you know, it was just coming in fast. i mean, typically what happens is the train will -- i take this train every day and typically what'll happen is there's usually some traffic, so the train will stop, you know, 100 yards before it even gets to the platforms, waits for traffic to pass through and then it comes in relatively slowly. and that didn't happen this morning. it just kind of came straight in and never slowed. stuart: from what you saw, jim, the damage to the train, the platform, the concourse and the roof of the station, can you imagine commuting into hoboken train station tomorrow morning? can you -- is it likely? >> no. i mean, i would imagine it's going to be weeks if not months before, before this is rea

paired. i mean -- repaired. i mean, the damage is pretty extensive. and plus where it hit, it was -- it kind of hit right by the staircase that leads down into the path station which is another commuter train. so, and the structural damage looked pretty significant where the roof collapsed and it hit a building. stuart: do you consider yourself lucky to be alive this morning, jim? >> i do. definitely. especially sitting in the first car. i mean, it's -- stuart: i bet you sit in the first car every day because you want to be first out of the train to get onto the path to get to work in nile, is that right -- in new york, is that right? >> it's true, and it's also the quiet car, no cell phone use, no talking. so it's the more pearsful ride usually -- peaceful ride usually. >> well, it wasn't quiet this morning. jim finan, excellent description, valuable to us all, and we appreciate you being with us, sir.

>> you're welcome. stuart: left-hand side of your screen, sean duffy, republican of wisconsin, going after -- >> time of the gentleman has education pyred. the chair now recognizes the gentleman from massachusetts, mr. capuano. >> thanks mr. chairman, thanks mr. stumpf. i want to thank you particularly for doing something here today that no other person has been able to do in the last four years. you have brought true bipartisanship to congress. [laughter] we're all together on this. we are not happy. last couple -- oh, they already started, but the last few minutes they've been running a graphic in the back, and my colleague went through some of them. i think it's important to know what some of the other things you have done, what they were. they weren't just fines. you screwed student loan holders, credit unions, fannie

mae, fredly are mac -- freddie mac, african-americans, hispanic s and on and on. i understand this isn't material. just five months ago you paid $1.2 billion in a fine. this is only 15% of that. who cares. we're pretend to be fire, we're get through this. you know what i heard that before? the guys who ran enron. the guys who ran arthur anderson. we can't criminally prosecute you. hell, you're your own boss. you are the ceo and the chairman. hold yourself to accountability. oh, my god, you've been bad.

oh, no, you haven't. that's ridiculous. your problem is coming. you think today's tough? it's coming. when the prosecutors get ahold of you, you're going to have a lot of fun. so i want to thank you for that. i want to ask you, you've got the graphic up here. do you know this guy? see, i'm not a real good researcher. i'm not a prosecutor. this is simple internet research, that's all i'm capable of doing. google it, wells fargo. boom, whole bunch of stuff shows up. this is mr. robert holmes who apparently robbed your bank in lancaster, pennsylvania. he did not use a weapon. he got caught. they got all the money back. he's in jail as we speak on a

$750,000 bail. you, on the other hand, have run an enterprise that has a culture of corruption, you encouraged subordinates to abuse existing customers by opening fake bank accounts, you charged those victims illegal fees, interest and late charges and then you send some of them to collection agencies because they didn't pay them. then you fired 5,300 workers -- as if you care concern -- to cover everybody's tracks. in my opinion, you and your entire leadership team are clearly and unequivocally guilty of at least conspiracy to commit fraud, conspiracy to commit identity theft, clearly racketeering which is something a lot of my friends know something about, and probably a dozen other crimes. only simple question. what the heck's the difference between you and mr. holmes?

why shouldn't you be in jail? he doesn't use a gun. you got the money back. i understand that at his arraignment he said he was sorry. what's the difference? why shouldn't you be in jail right along with mr. holmes? >> congressman, i think that when you do something unearth -- unethical or dishonest which i've tried to exercise my duties as -- >> you haven't done a real good job. you've had 16 violations in five years. that's a good job? this is only the seven largest fine you've had. you've had since others that are a lot bigger. i forgot, you're the one judging yourself because you're also chairman of the board. i actually think i'm the greatest congressman in the history of the world. i should be speaker, president and maybe emperor of the world. that's my judgment of myself. sound good to you? >> there's no question that we've done things that we need to improve on and we've paid fines, and we're trying to get

better in every one of our businesses. >> so mr. holmes pays a little fine, you know, few bucks based on the amount of money he stole and the victims he had. you think he should be let out and have no criminal record? >> again, being dishonest and breaking the law is something very -- >> oh, so it's not breaking the law stealing my identity and opening an account that i didn't ask for? >> and our culture is about not doing that. we train for that not to -- >> i don't know -- [inaudible] 5,300 employees that you say -- >> time of the gentleman has expired. the chair now recognizes the gentleman from california, mr. royce, chairman of the house foreign affairs chief. >> thank you, mr. chairman. mr. stumpf, the idea of a cross-selling target of -- stuart: okay. well, there were some fireworks right there. let's call it a fiery statement from democrat, massachusetts, that's mike capuano. he said you're going to have a lot of -- addressing mr. stumpf,

you're going to have a lot of fun when the prosecutors go after you. he said you are guilty of the conspiracy to commit fraud, to commit id theft and a whole bunch -- and racketeering which is, perhaps, the most important of all. we have with us katie pharynx a former prosecutor -- fang, who knows something about prosecuting. she's been listening to what's ooh going on here. what do you make of this, katie? go after the man for conspiracy to commit fraud, conspiracy to commit id theft if there is such a crime and conspiracy to racketeer. what say you? >> my vote is to make sure that that representative gets his seat back because, stuart, as you know, pigs get fat but hogs get slaughtered. today is not the day of reckoning for wells fargo and john stumpf. there is at least three class action lawsuits that have been filed, two by former employees and one by those people who were not a part of the 5,300 that got terminated for the alleged bad

conduct. they're employees who never met the forced quotas of ten accounts a day by the allegations. it is going to fell wells fargo. that is the civil litigation, stuart. the criminal prosecutions that can come from the doj, those also carry not only jail terms, but they also carry he hefty fis as we just heard that could be paid more than the 185 million that's already been paid. stuart: but is it likely, katie, is it even possible that john stumpf himself could be accused -- could be charged with conspiracy to commit fraud, conspiracy to commit id theft, conspiracy to be part of a racketeering organization? i mean, are such charges even possible against that man, that individual? >> well, that's a great question and why. because as we know, it calls runs downhill -- it always runs downhill. there's been insinuation that these are rogue team members at wells fargo committed these crimes or fraudulent acts.

but you know what we need, stuart? we need litigation. discovery happens. the who, what, where, why and how comes out. and if we can show the liability, if we show the involvement and the participation goes as high up the food chain as possibly john stumpf, then the answer is, yes. so let's hope and keep our fingers crossed, stuart, that the doj actually does its job, because we haven't seen that happening lately, and they really go after the people that ordered this to happen. this came from -- this is a directive that came from up high. this is not just some rogue group of employees that decided to do this one day. stuart: all right. katie fang taking a hard edge there. hold on a second, more from you in a moment. left-hand side of the screening the hearing continues, right-hand side, train crash at hoboken, new jersey, one dead, hundreds of multiple injuries. >> this is from the jersey city medical center, they are saying they have three critical

patients right now, eight serious and more than 40 what they describe as walking wounded, those that are not in serious condition but do need help. stuart: that's what you're seeing right now on the right-hand side of your screen. that is the, that's the information we just received from that news conference that's going on on the right-hand side of your screen there. >> yeah. stuart: moments ago we had a witness to the accident, a man, jim finan, who was actually on the train. he was in the front car. fortunately, the man was sitting down, so he was not injured. he managed to punch out a window and jump out and help other people get out, but he described the scene as where they knew the train was going too fast. they were bumped around, an enormous crash. they hit the terminal, it went sailing into the air, the front car, and plowed across the concourse as described by jim finan who was on -- >> we believe the engineer and conductor on this train are alive, so they will be a big help in the course of the

investigation. stuart: let's not forget the engine was pushing this train, so it wasn't at front, it wasn't pulling it behind it, it was at the back pushing the train, pushing those cars right onto the concourse there. i can only imagine the mayhem when that train hit just before 9:00 this morning. all right? adam shapiro is with us live on the scene. adam shapiro, you're there. tell us what you're seeing, tell us what happened as best you can, sir. >> reporter: the most important thing at in this moment, stuart, i'm going to step out of the shot so you can see the train station and the emergency responders, is what ashley was just confirming. fox business got that confirmation from new jersey transit that the engineer and the conductor are arrive. now, they were taken out of the train after the crash, obviously, but they are -- according to new jersey transit -- alive. the reason this is important is that there is only one confirmed death at this point. local tv in new york has

reported three people dead, but new jersey transit insists at this point only one dead and that the engineer and the conductor are alive. of course, it's going to be crucial for investigators to speak to those people to find out what they can about the leadup to the crash. the only other thing as i come back into the shot, stuart, is that the national transportation safety board has dispatched what they call a go team. whenever there is an accident of this magnitude whether it's a train, sometimes involving trucks or buses or an aircraft, they dispatch the go team to begin the investigation, and that go team is on its way here. stuart? stuart: adam shapiro, before you go, i want to give viewers in other parts of the country a sense of just what happened there in hoboken. over your shoulder, adam, our viewers are seeing the train sayings. it is a huge -- train station. it is a huge train station with, i believe, tens of thousands of people coming through it every day on their way to new york city. >> reporter: yes. stuart: adam, i know you're not in position to speculate how

long it'll take to get that train station back up and running, but confirm for our viewers that this interrupts the commute in a very big way for some time, correct? >> reporter: absolutely. to give people who may not be familiar with what happens in metro new york, this is one of the busiest train systems, the new jersey transit system along with the new york city mta which you all know as the subway, one of the busiest not only in the country, but in the world. this particular station, people commute from different parts of new jersey into this station, and then they will go downstairs to what we call the path train, and they go under the river, under the hudson river into manhattan. for thousands of people every day,s this is the way in and out of new york city. but that, of course, is closed. you have the pictures, stuart, and i think we can show those, of the train station because the train as it came in actually caused structural damage to the station. so what new jersey transit is doing at this point is offering people who rely on this form of

transportation buses as well as ferries and, of course, the train passes will be good for that. but it is, and this is no lack or it's hardly hyperbole to say for commuters from new jersey into man at man hat can -- and that's in the tens of thousands of people -- this will be a nightmare commute going forward for the next couple of days. stuart: adam shapiro right there telling us precisely what happened roughly 90 minutes ago in hoboken, new jersey. we'll be feeling this for some time. left-hand side of your screen, the hearing continues. john stumpf on the witness stand, again if i can put it like that. he's the ceo of wells fargo. that bank created two million phony accounts, didn't tell the people that they were opening accounts in their name, charged them fees, put 'em through hell when they tried to get back their credit rating. i'm sorry, say that again producer, what? okay. i want to bring in judge andrew

napolitano. the esteemed judge from new jersey. nothing to do -- we're not talking about hoboken right now, even though you know it very well. >> saddened by it. i'm sure i have friends that were on that train. stuart: i'm sure you do, i do as well. i thought for a moment, and i don't want to be too personal, but i thought for a moment that my daughter, because she travels through hoboken, gets on the path -- she's fine. >> adam's description of the centrality of this station to mass transit was right, spot on. stuart: okay. now, moments ago at that hearing, left-hand side of your screen, we heard from from democrat, massachusetts' mike capuano. >> sounded like he was out of his mind. [laughter] stuart: i'm glad you pointed out the pronunciation -- >> not exactly a british name. stuart: no, it's not. [laughter] my name ends in a vowel sound, okay? [laughter] he looked at john stump. , and he said when the prosecutors go after you, you're going to have a lot of fun.

you are guilty, he said, you are in line for a prosecution, for a conspiracy to commit fraud, to commit id theft and racketeering. now, that was grandstanding, obviously. >> well, he's actually not very far from the mark. stuart: but the man himself, john stumpf, will not be accused of all of that, will he? >> it would depend upon what the ed -- the evidence is. the bank would be accused of racketeering because racketeering is the development of a body of wealth by illicit means with two or more criminal acts. we have thousands and thousands of criminal acts here. if that is the case, the government can then get from the possessor of that body of wealth three times the value. so do the math. how much money did wells fargo make because of all these phony accounts? triple it, that's the fines the government can get. that's before you get to criminal sanctions. stuart: but what you're talking

about is a prosecution under rico. >> yes. remember, there's civil rico, and i'm sure the plaintiffs' lawyers are preparing it already, and there's criminal rico. three times the amount of the increase in wealth that the bank enjoyed because of its illegal activity. stuart: well, look -- wait a second, wait a second. then the regulators have enormous and the authorities have enormous leverage on wells fargo -- >> yes. stuart: because you charge them with rico and you get them through the court, they're dead. >> you would know how much or our people would know how much wealth they experienced from this illegal activity. stuart: oh, now, that's very interesting because the stock price went up significantly. >> so now we would have -- stuart: and that you could say -- >> okay. so now that's a jury issue of exactly how much increase in wealth they experienced. can you tie the increase in stock value to the illicit

activity, or is it just the fees that they got from that illicit activity. stuart: but if you could, that bank's out of business. >> and what is it, the second largest bank in the country. stuart: it is now. >> so, look, as a practical matter, there will be a grand, large settlement of a huge amount of money being distributed to each of the individuals who wants to opt in and who suffered. will there be criminal prosecutions? it depends on what the facts show. but remember, there's a clause in the constitution, your favorite document, that prohibits bills of attainder. the parliament loved bills of attainder. it's where the legislature declares you to be a criminal. can you imagine if everybody in the legislature felt like congressman capuano -- stuart: but that's not necessary. >> -- mr. stumpf would be arrested tomorrow. stuart: that's not necessary. the lower courts could file the charge of rico -- >> correct. which is why stumpf has little to fear from this grandstanding,

and it's just grandstanding. stuart: i noticed a couple of the questioners, in particular greg meeks, confused what wells fargo had done in this instance, the creation of phony accounts, with the mortgage mess of 2008. they're rolling it all into one. >> since when do you expect members of congress to have their facts straight? stuart: but my point is they're going right after the bankers -- >> yes, they are. stuart: deliberately, because they are a pretty target. >> this event is a political stunt intended to get us to talk about them and their constituents to say, hey, they're talking for me out there. but it's legally meaningless. stuart: okay. thank you very much. >> nice necktie, mr. varney. stuart: stop it. i want to g left-hand side of your screen, that is the hearing going on -- against, about wells fargo, left-hand side of your screen. the questioning, frankly, has not been add harsh, there have not been as many fireworks as we saw, what was it, ten days ago when elizabeth warren decimated

john stumpf and really called him out bigtime and had enormous impact. you're seeing a great deal of political grandstanding -- >> yep. stuart: all of these house members are up for re-election in november. >> of course. stuart: they're all piling on any bank, this bank in particular because they've been found out. it's a theater. it's political theater in the extreme -- >> yes. [laughter] >> and it's now cutting into wells fargo's business, because you had a candidate for governor, 2018, john chang, california treasurer, cutting back business wells fargo. stuart: that's correct. >> that hurts. stuart: at least 12 months. >> and connecticut may do the same thing. stuart: i'm not going to mention t.a.r.p., judge, so i know you don't approve of that, so i'll move on. [laughter] nothing funny about this, that's the right-hand side of your screen, that is hoboken, new jersey. about, just about two hours ago now a train supposed to be pulling into is station around 8:38, it was a little late, it pulled in. in fact, it plowed in just

before 9:00. went straight over the barrier, plowed across the concrete concourse area, hit a store. 100 injured. we now have that, we have eight seriously injured, three critically injured, and i believe we have a witness to what happened on -- i'm sorry, repeat that, producer? matt is with us, a witness to what happened. matt, would you just take us through it from beginning to end? go through it, tell us what happened, please. >> sure. as i had pulled up to the station at kind of the opposite end of the terminal as i was getting off the train, i heard a woman yelling saying, you know, the street was blocked off, you couldn't get through, there was a train crash and something had happened. i wasn't sure what she was, you know, the validity of what she was saying or if it was legit. and then i turned the corner to go into the terminal, and i just saw -- it was cay yoict. you could see the train had crashed through the station totally and had ripped apart,

you know, the infrastructure. the ceiling was caved in and pipes were leaking and wires were hanging, you know? pillars had collapsed. stuart: let me interrupt you there for a second because what you're saying now about the structure of the building, that the pipes were wrecked and that some of the pillars supporting the roof had been damaged and that the roof had fallen in, that's very important because long term we want to know when that train station will be back in action to deliver the tens of thousands of people from new jersey to their jobs in new york city every day. the way you're describing it is significant damage to the station. repeat it, please. >> yes. i was just thinking the same thing. i mean, that line where it had crashed, it had taken out, you know, a couple pillars, taken out the ceiling, it took out pipes and wires and everything. and, you know, it blocked off a whole large section of the

terminal where there's a ton of people every morning, and that's a pretty busy line that serves, you know, parts of north jersey, so i don't know -- stuart: did you see the injured? >> i did see some people injured, yes. i saw some people getting medical attention as i was walking through, and then as i was walking through to go to work, there was a huge, you know, influx of medical personnel and first responders from all over. stuart: what's your description of the scene as you first saw it? utter chaos with significant damage? >> chaos and damage, yes, and just a lot of people just stunned. i think everybody was really surprised because this is such a routine day, and this is a commute that everybody makes every day and thinks nothing of it. you don't expect this to happen, and then something just shocks you like this, and you're just thrown into, just, mayhem. stuart: do you think you'd be able to take a train out of there tonight? >> as of right now, i think they have shut down the station and, you know, i'm not sure if

anything will be up and running tonight. obviously, some of the lines are still, you know, undamaged, but just with the whole scene and with everything, i imagine it'll be shut down for the rest of the day. stuart: okay. matt, thank you very much for joining us. we really appreciate your input today. we really want to find out exactly what happened. >> no problem. >> have we heard about the conductor and the engineer? because the ntsb requires immediate, immediate blood and drug tests. so if they're incapacitated, it's a draw of their blood. they're not even asked for them. >> yes. saying that the engineer is in hospital being treated but also being questioned. stuart: i believe the expression was the engineer and the conductor. >> yeah. they're both alive -- stuart: both are alive, both being questioned. as you said, there is an immediate test for what's in their blood. >> precisely. stuart: okay. now earlier, we had an eyewitness, a man who was on the train. he was literally in the front car as it came into the station, and he said, look, there's no question about it, this thing was going much taos.

very conscious -- too fast. very conscious that it had not slowed down. >> which brings up an interesting point. none of the transit trains have this positive train control which became a big issue outside of philadelphia because it was going too fast on a curve. congress had said all trains in this country should have this system that overrides the engineer's settings on a train if it's going too fast. this train does not have it. congress said all trains should have it by the end of 2015. a lot of rail lines said we're going to have to shut down entirely. we can't do it. we don't have the training in place, the money to put it in place. that deadline's been extended to 2018, and as a result, many trains in this country don't have positive train control which overrides an engineer if the train is going too fast. stuart: got it. that's what's happening, right-hand side of your screen. please return to the amazon bug, can we? for much of the show today, we had amazon up in brand new record territory. it then subsequently, it came down a little bit.

right now it's still -- it's about flat. almost at $830 per share. we've been simply amazed at the performance of amazon recently. it has doubled in 15 months. you rarely see that. went to, i think, 834 -- >> yes, about $10 billion away from being a $400 billion market cap company. jeff bezos is pushing on $70 billion in net worth. stuart: i want to repeat that. jeff bezos, owner -- founder -- not owner -- is now worth almost $70, 7-0, billion. >> and it was 20 years ago it went public as a bookseller. stuart: do you have any idea what the ipo price was? >> i have it in my head, but i want to be sure. >> it'll make you cry, i'm sure. [laughter] stuart: i wasn't going to buy no stock -- >> it was $18 a share. >> oh, my god. stuart: twenty years ago today,

sergeant pepper taught the band to play. that stock, become right-hand corner of your screen, was $18 -- >> i want to get in my time machine. >> you're bitter, aren't you? stuart: yes, i am. [laughter] let's go back to john stump on -- i hate cliches, but he really is in the hot seat here. >> each account, we're going to take care of it. i don't care where there was -- and, you know, the biggest thing here is secondary harm. i think it was asked by another congressman or woman about that issue. we take this very seriously. >> my time is scratching down. here's the fundamental question i want to ask you: do you think what you did was criminal? >> you know, i'm not a criminal attorney -- >> no, but do you think, do you think that? >> i led the company with courage and with -- >> if another bank president had done this or chief executive officer, would not you say it's criminal? >> i didn't break our code of

ethics, and i didn't do any -- >> thank you, mr. chairman. >> time of the gentleman has expired. the chair now recognizes the gentleman from new mexico, mr. pearce. >> thank you, mr. chairman. thank you, sir, appreciate you being here. i suspect it's not all fun. the -- so you talked about the 5,300 that were terminated. how big a percent of the people in the company that were terminated out of 268,000 people, you'd get more than 5,300 terminated, so what percent of the terminations did that actually represent? >> you know, i don't have that. i can work with our team and see -- >> ah, don't worry about it. that's okay. >> i don't have that. >> so just looking at this from the 30,000-foot viewpoint and keep in mind i'm like mr. lucas, live on a small five-acre farm, dad was a sharecropper before he went to work as a roustabout. we had a blue collar company just working there in the

islefields -- oilfields of southeast new jersey so the numbers that get thrown around here are pretty big, but i can't fathom that you've got 5,300 people terminated, and that doesn't come to your attention as a ceo? you get calls on the ethics line saying, hey, we're doing unethical stuff, 2008 -- according to one of the other people -- according to your comments people inside your company are breaking the law, they're creating criminal acts, and that doesn't come to your attention? you get $10.8 billion in settlements, and that doesn't come to your attention. so what -- i mean, if i'm sitting here thinking about this stuff just coming in in a clear, just quiet room, seeing these things at some point somebody's going to say, houston, we've got

a problem. but it doesn't appear that anybody ever said, houston, we've got a problem. l.a.'s city attorney brings charges, and nobody on the board says, houston, we've got a problem. what, in your assessment looking back, what was it that would cause all those things to go under the radar and not be recognized, not be seen? >> thank you for that question. as we learned more about this issue, we made investments. we made investments in training, we reduced sales goals, we brought in a regulator -- >> no, i understand. you've been through that. >> okay. >> what kept you from seeing, what kept this from rising to the -- i'm sure that today that you probably consider the problem somewhat different than you did in 2011, '12, '13, '14,

'15. why did not you see the importance that you would attribute to it today at any stage of the process? >> congressman, it's a good question. i've said in my testimony, identify said -- >> i read your testimony. i did not see the answer. what? so since you appear not to want to see it, i'm sitting here and a balanced scale as a business manager is always there. do we want to take that job cleaning out that well, then we can't clean it out and we get a bad reputation? that's worth -- maybe we will. or maybe we won't. are we going to overlook the numbers of terminations? we're getting the calls, don't we really want to investigate? the stock price is doing okay. my compensation is okay. you get the balance is there. your compensation in that period of time is approximately 200 million. that would cause one to say i think things are running okay, yeah, maybe we got that little problem over there.

but another thing on the side of the scale that says i don't want to look at this or i can't see $10 billion in settlements that it just doesn't come to my attention. 5,300 terminations doesn't come to my attention because my -- we got 260,000 employees. obviously, we're doing things 99% right. forget the two million people that we defrauded. mostly we're doing okay. and so i see size and complexity being a great problem when you can't see 5,300 people being term mayed -- terminated, when you can't see $10 billion in settlements, then you've got a problem with complexity. and there is no community banker in this country that would not have seen people doing illegal acts. so maybe it was your stock compensation, maybe it was the size and complexity. but, sir, i think today listening to things that everyone has said you have

proved that you did not offer leadership in this, you have kind of shirked around and said the board can do anything it wants at any time. i, sir, think you ought to submit a resignation, and your board cannot hold off action on that. thank you. yield back. >> mr. chairman, may i just make a comment about that? >> witness may comment. >> we did take accountability, we did invest in things to help reduce this, and we saw the numbers coming down -- >> problems continued, sir. the problems continued right on through your actions. 2011 you did this, 2013 you did that, and the problems continued -- >> time, the time of the gentleman has expired. chair now recognizes the gentleman from texas, mr. green, ranking member of the oversight and investigations subcommittee. >> thank you, mr. chairman. i thank the ranking member as well. i'm grateful that you have given us a very positive response, and

we are holding this hearing. mr. chairman, with $5.6 billion in earnings in the second quarter, wells fargo is not in this because of need. this is about greed. it's about the same kind of greed that created credit default swaps, that created negative amortizationing, that kidded no-doc loans, prepayment penalties that coincided with teaser rates, the same kind of greed called exotic products that created the housing bubble. this greed has caused this cross-selling to become the equivalent of an exotic product.

a product that has now created a cross-selling bubble for wells fargo. the cross-selling bubble exists because you were marketing yourself as a company in a growth mode by virtue of the new products you were having with your customers. you had customers that were coming in, and you were growing. this enticed investors, it enticed consumers to buy your stocks. when your stocks were bought, it benefited you and top-level executives to the detriment of lower-level entry employees. they get fired, top-level executives get golden parachutes, and it's business as usual. well, mr. chairman, this will not end by simply having some

lower-level employees go to jail. if top-level executives go free and lower-level employees go to jail, it doesn't end it because there is no reason for this to cease and for top-level employees to be more mindful of what's going on. so we've reached a point now where the public expects to see more than lower-level people punished. 5300. 5300 working people who, by what i seem to read were encouraged to the point of having themselves coerced to engage in this activity, these were people who were trying to make a living, not trying to make a big bonus and a big payday. these people deserve a fair day,

not just an exit from your company. and what do i mean by a fair day. i think they deserve an opportunity to be heard in terms of what happened at wells fargo to cause them to do what they've done. i think that they ought to be given an opportunity to come before congress, they ought to be given the opportunity to explain. and i would also add this: we have to find out how pervasive this bubble is, we have to. we have to bring before the overnight committee top-level executives -- oversight committee, top-level executives, and i think we have to start with you. so tell me please, sir, how common place is this cross-selling in the banking industry? >> thank you, congressman. for our company cross-sell is a good thing because it represents the depths of -- >> if you would, i'm going to have to i to intercede, because i'm asking

about the industry now. >> i have no idea. >> you have no idea how pervasive the product is? >> i don't know what other companies use. >> are you saying you have no belief or no idea that other companies are cross-selling? >> i do not have that. >> i must tell you, i cannot believe your answer. you're telling me that you have no idea as to whether or not they even engage in cross-selling? >> i don't know their performance measures -- >> but you do know that they engage in it. >> i -- every bank, every retailer out there has some motivation, some way to make sure they recognize their people. >> do they engage in cross-selling? >> well, i don't know, i don't know their situations. i'm honest with you. >> you, you don't talk to your colleagues? you don't talk to other bankers? you have no idea as to whether they engage in cross-selling? >> i don't know what they use. >> well, listen, i thank you for your answer -- let me finish -- because, mr. chairman, this is the evidence that we need to bring the others in. we have to ask them what they're doing given that this gentleman refuses to give us what i believe to be a correct answer.

>> time of the gentleman has expired. the chair now recognizes the gentleman from florida, mr. posey. >> thank you, mr. chairman. stuart: okay. we just saw congressman al green who, basically, wans bank executives -- wants bank executives to go to prison and, in particular, john stumpf, to go to prison. what we've seen consistently this morning is the confusion of two issues. the first is what wells fargo did by opening two million phony accounts. the second issue is totally extraneous. they're trying to link him to the 2008 collapse of the mortgage market. >> yeah. stuart: they're trying to link the two, bring him into it, and there's no link whatsoever. >> none. >> yeah. stuart: i really have to settle this about cross-selling. congressman green moments ago is infuriated by the idea of cross-selling. i walk into a bank, open a savings account and they say, mr. varney, would you like a credit card? that is cross-selling. is that the demon that's

infected the banking industry? >> no. stuart: i don't -- sorry, i'm on camera now. i don't think so, ladies and gentlemen. [laughter] i'm sorry, i don't think so. cross-sell me, please. i'd like a credit card with my savings account. i'd love to get a mortgage if you give me a decent deal. that's cross-selling. there's nothing wrong with that. do these people really want to knock it out of the park? that's a disgrace, that's awful? what sheer nonsense. how am i doing, judge? >> fabulous. i cannot improve on that. you're terrific when you're angry. [laughter] stuart: you see -- >> says do it. stuart: misguided criticism of wells fargo and john stumpf. it is political theater because these people want to be reelected. >> and we have the democrat from massachusetts, congressman capuano, who said so what about the clinton foundation? that's what friends do, they network. [laughter] stuart: he's the one that wants to get john john stumpf chargedh

prosecutors. >> racketeering. stuart: monica controlly has -- monica crowley has sat here for an hour, we've got 15 seconds left. [laughter] >> the core pillar of the democratic party is beating up wall street because they're now a socialist party. stuart: two seconds, one second, 12 noon. here's neil. neil: thank you very much. what's going on in washington, imagine the reaction we're already getting to this train crash today in hoboken, new jersey. already without even knowing the details and without even knowing what exactly caused this, nancy pelosi, the house minority leader, urging congress to quit delaying something called the positive train control act; that is, the means by which a train's speed can be adjusted automatically if something is happening to the conductor or the conductor is riding the thing like a banshee. so we don't even know what happened there, but nancy pelosi saying it no doubt has to go