pence: there are criminal aliens in this country, tim, who have come into the country illegally perpetrating violence and taking lives. kaine: you want to use harsh words on mexicans. pence: good people, you keep leaving out that quote. if you want me to go there, i will go there. here is a choice on life, i couldn't be more proud to be standing with donald trump, who's standing for the right to life. it's a principle that senator kaine, and i'm gentle about this because i really do respect it. it's a principle that you embrace and i've appreciated the fact that you've supported the hyde amendment which bans the use of taxpayer funding for abortion. we can come together as a nation, we can create a culture of life. more and more young people are embracing life because we know we are -- we're better for it. like mother teresa said at that

famous national prayer breakfast, welcome the children into our world, there are so many families around the country who can't have children. kaine: but governor -- >> improve the options to families that can't have children to adopt readily. kaine: why don't you trust women to make this choice for themselves? we can encourage people to support life, of course we can. but why don't you trust women. why doesn't donald trump trust women to make this choice for themselves? that's what we ought to be doing in public life. living our lives faith or motivation with enthusiasm and excitement, convincing each other, dialoguing with each other with important moral, on the day. on fundamental issues of morality, we should let women make their own decisions. pence: because a society can be judged how it deals with the most vulnerable. aged, the infirm and the disabled, and the unborn. i believe it with all my heart. and i couldn't be more proud to be standing with a pro-life candidate in donald trump.

moderator: i have a final question, it has been the divisive campaign. senator kaine, if your ticket wins, what specifically are you going to do to unify the country and reassure the people who voted against you? kaine: that's a really important one. that may be the $64,000 question. it has been a divisive campaign, hillary is running a campaign about stronger together, and donald trump -- this is not directed at this man, except to the extent he can't defend donald trump. donald trump has run a campaign about one insult after the next. we have to bring the country together.. hillary clinton was first lady and senator and secretary of state, and i served in the senate. i'm amaze as i talk to republican senators how well they regard and respect hillary clinton. she was on the armed services committee. on other committees. she worked across the aisle when she was first lady to get the chip program passed so that 8 million low income kids have

health insurance in the country. including 150,000 in indiana. she worked across the aisle after 9/11 to get health benefits for the first responders who bravely went into the towers and the pentagon. she worked to get benefits for tricare benefits for national guard members including hoosiers and virginians in the national guard. she has a track record of working across the aisle to make things happen. you know, elaine, i have the same track record, governor of virginia with two republican houses. in the senate, i have good working relationships across the aisle. i think it's fine to be a democrat or republican or independent. after election day, the goal is work together. hillary clinton has a track record of accomplishment across the aisle that will enable her to do just that when we work with a new congress in january. moderator: governor, how will you unify the country if you win? pence: thank, elaine, and thank you for a great discussion. kaine: absolutely. pence: thank you, senator. this is a very challenging time

in the life of our nation. we can -- america's place in the world after the leadership of hillary clinton and barack obama and the world stage has been followed by an economy that is struggling, stifled by avalanche of more taxes, more regulation, obamacare, the war on coal and the kind of trade deals that have put american workers in the back seat. i think the best way we can bring people together is through change in washington, d.c. you know, i served in washington, d.c. for 12 years in the congress of the united states, and i served with many republicans and democrats, men and women of goodwill. the potential is there to really change the direction of this country, but it's going to take leadership to do it. the american people want to see our nation standing tall on the world stage again. they want to see us supporting our military, rebuilding our military, commanding the respect of the world and they

want to see the american economy off to the races again. they want to see an american comeback, and donald trump's entire career has been about building. it's going through hardship just like a business person does and finding a way through smarts and ingenuity and resilience to fight for it and when donald trump becomes president of the united states, we're going to have a stronger america. when you hear him say he wants to make america great again, when we do that, i truly do believe the american people are going to be standing taller. they're going to see that real change can happen after decades of just talking about it. when that happens, the american people are going to stand tall, stand together, and we'll have the unity that's been missing for way too long. moderator: gentlemen, thank you so much. this concludes the vice presidential debate. my thanks to the candidates, the commission and to you for watching. please tune in this sunday for the second presidential debate at washington university in st. louis, and the final debate

on october 19th at the university of nevada las vegas. from farmville, virginia, i'm elaine quijano of cbs news. good night. [applause] >> that wraps it up, everybody. i'm neil cavuto. as you can see, if the table was going to ease a lot of friction and a lot of angst between the two candidates as it has in the past, the table is more conducive to a calm and less argumentative discussion, these candidates put that issue to rest. it was anything but, it got pretty contentious, they were concise in answers but did save a lot of time pie talking over one another. the question is who won? too soon to say. questions about the role of the moderator in it. but i want to give you a good idea where we are in the spin room. and frank, my camera man has incredibly strong shoulders, but this is the scrum. this is the hoard of media reporters waiting for campaign

surrogates to come out of that stage and to talk to the press. this is also the point where they state their case, and who they think had a better performance. obviously, if you like senator kaine, you're going to come out and say he won. if you're a fan of governor pence, you're going to say he won. this is the room where they do it. i stress before, the focus seems to be on how the candidates have lower expectations and reminds how strong they are. both candidates with families, it's fair to say both comported heads of ticket very, very well. questions will be asked of the moderator in interruptions. we'll get to that first with my friend and colleague lou dobbs. he and i were obviously watching this together. lou, your quick thoughts? >> my quick thoughts are this was in many ways a repetition of two against one. i thought the moderator was

overly deferential to one side and basically talked over herself, governor pence. i think we're going to hear a lot about the way the moderator conducted herself. i think we're going to hear a lot about the first hour of this in which the fact of the matter is, a democratic vice presidential nominee interrupted, interrupted and interrupted without, if you will, interruption. had a very hard time finding an equanimity for his aggressive performance and governor pence was, i think, overly constrained, but at the same time mannered. i believe that at the end senator kaine had a, without question, a better 15 minute closing than governor pence. and i think you're going to see a lot of discussion about the moderator. >> how these two did on this stage versus the guys at the

heads of the ticket last week? >> i think frankly they quoted themselves as combatants, not particularly well. i would have liked to have seen more substance and more follow-up from the moderator, not to put this on elaine quijano because she's a terrific person, but this was one sided and terribly misjudged. >> i counted at least eight interruptions of governor pence and maybe for points of clarification, not nearly as many except one near the end with senator kaine. it's going refuel arguments about lester holt seeming to focus on interruptions and clarifications from donald trump, not so much hillary clinton. >> the american voters are smart. they know most of the mainstream media is frankly in the tank, but we have never seen in a presidential election year this kind of obvious misjudgment and i think bad

comportment on the part of the moderators. this is worrying war in should be an aggressive, balanced moderator in an adversarial relationship to these people. >> i was wondering too, certainly have to give the creativity award to senator kaine for finding any and all ways to bring up the tax issue in any and all discussions, god bless him. it worked into vladimir putin, it worked into foreign relations, a host of other issues, did it not? >> without question, and as we know, one of the favorite things for all americans is tax policy. more they can get, the more they revel in it. >> right, right, right? >> it was a peculiar take for him. they think it's a winner or they wouldn't have done it. i don't think it overcame his really bad manners. >> bad manners from lou dobbs. loul be back with me later. thank you, sir. we're here in the scrum, and you never know who shows up in these situations, governor gilmore with us now. governor, how do you think it went?

>> i sat through the whole debate, and i think that when you take away all of tim kaine's rudeness and shrillness, just interrupting people, shouting down people, shouting down governor pence is no cogent argument for economic policy. when you take a look at the argument, what came through is this, hillary clinton and tim kaine are going to double down on a bad economy, not going to allow the economy to grow. >> you say a bad economy, it's better than it was, i'm paraphrasing the governor. senator kaine's mission was to say, again, echoing hillary clinton, don't let the republicans get away saying we're in a depression. we came out of one. how do you respond to that? >> i would say coming away from a complete recession, you must judge the recovery for what it is, and it isn't good enough, and that's why trump is beginning to carry ohio, is being paid attention to in pennsylvania and virginia

because people understand that hillary clinton and tim kaine aggressively tonight said they would not change this economy. they would keep it weak. they call for open borders. they made it very, very clear, not only amnesty but open borders, open borders for the united states if hillary clinton and tim kaine are elected. and finally on international relations, there's no question with what came through in this debate is that we are weaker and in more danger than we have been before, and frankly fairly proud of the situation. >> let me ask you about the role thrust for running mates, that is to speak often of the person at the top of your ticket and explain their positions. donald trump was criticized rightly or wrongly as having a poor faring in last week's debate. do you think governor pence helped him tonight? >> the american people have to decide whether you want class and dignity and knowledge and experience as vice president, or whether you want somebody that's going to shout everybody

else down. that really has been the problem. hillary clinton and tim kaine have basically said if you don't agree with us, we're going to talk over and you stop you from speaking, and naturally that was the issue of the commentator. and i think that the american people are -- >> lou dobbs, my colleague, mentioned that. she interrupted governor pence a lot more. she would argue that governor pence was going over and talking over when it was senator kaine's turn. senator is going to argue just the opposite. it was your feeling it was favoritism? >> definitely two against one in this debate just like the last debate, and i think the time has come to really change these debates. we just don't need to have this kind of press intervention in these kinds of debates. i don't want to talk to the american people about that. american people care whether they're going to have more growth and more opportunity and more jobs wlooshgs they're going to have a complete open border and lawless situation on

the immigration issue or whether we'll be made safe and secure in the world that is increasingly dangerous. >> what do you think of the format of this? i mentioned most of the vice presidential debates certainly since 2000, with the exception of one with joe biden and sarah palin, they are at a table. the discourse doesn't turn as nasty. what did you think? >> i don't think that matters. i think you can go at a lectern or table, if you're going to be rude and yell at people and shout people down, you can do it as tim kaine did, seated or from a lectern. >> he didn't yell so much as he interrupted. >> no, no, i don't agree with that. he has a higher pitched voice which allowed him to dominate the situation when unfair to do that. >> who won the debate? >> i think governor pence showed not only class and dignity. >> you might be shocked, the senator's people think he did?

>> the main thing is that the issues that governor pence wanted to emphasize with respect to law and order with, respect to growing economy, those came through, and i think the american people saw that. >> okay, thank you very much. by the way, reverend jesse jackson is here. thank you, governor, very, very much. reverend jackson, how are you? >> hold you up, you guys got knocked down tonight. >> we're ahead of this game, reverend. >> governor, thank you so much. reverend jesse jackson. i guess you agree with it was a big victory for governor pence? >> governor kaine was more prepared and the time that pence seemed on the defenseless. second, he would not defend his president on the insults launched against mexicans or against african-americans, the birther. he chose -- even the taxes.

he chose to avoid defending his president. >> you're saying -- governor pence did? >> he avoided defending. >> why would he defend this president on those? governor pence wouldn't do that? >> because he was charged with those issues in the debate. >> governor pence wouldn't do anything to defend his president. certainly senator kaine? >> pay his taxes. >> were you surprised how many times that came up? >> i was not. it was the topic this week and, of course, taxes pay the bills of public service and one did not see -- the range of insults from mexicans to muslims to the president himself with no contrition, no sense of apology. >> the other side said deplorables, equal opportunity. >> no. >> that sums that up. more of what's going on.

this is the scrum, they're all ming in, going to make their pitch for their respective candidate. it is very, very crowded. much more crowd than it was, and you are seeing batches of groups representing each side and their interpretation of who won. way too soon to tell, but it is fair to say that this debate was more to the point and pointed than that presidential one. we will have more from virginia, right after this.

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. >> when congressman pence was in congress here, was the chief cheerleader for thivatization o security even after president bush stopped pushing for it. congressman pence kept pushing for it.

we're going to stand up against efforts to privatize social security and we'll look for ways to keep it solvent going forward, focusing primarily on the payroll tax camp. >> there they go again. all donald trump and i have said about social security is we're going to meet our obligations to our seniors, that's it. neil: all right, not exactly there you go again, but governor pence saying there they go again. welcome, everybody, i'm neil cavuto. back in the scrum, in this room where each side is going to try to pitch how they did in the spin room, and normally the rule of thumb is, as i said so many times, after the event, each side will make the argument their guy won. you might find this shocking, democratic surrogates say senator kaine won handily, and others who think governor pence one. what is clear is that the presence of a table on the debate stage which was made originally to try to keep

things orderly and with little interruption, that was the not the case tonight. it got fairly nasty on a couple of points here but there is already a sense they got into more issues quickly than was seen in the case of the presidential contest certainly a week ago. the read right now in austan goolsbee top economic adviser to president obama joins me in chicago. austan, a good deal of the back and forth especially on social security went to who is going to protect the institution as we know it? now, there seemed to be little discussion on the democratic side about curtailing its growth or fearing for its growth, something that governor pence raised. you crunched the numbers, you know entitlements, was either side realistic to you? >> well, you know, there were a couple of things going on there they couldn't quite understand. i mean first, i was surprised like you, everybody told us

this is going to be boring and these guys are the friendliest guys in the world. they came out, they were slapping each other from -- right from the beginning. neil: you're right, you're right. >> on the social security point, i was puzzled because what senator tim kaine said about mike pence's position was true. mike pence, mike pence's privatization plan was actually even more private account oriented than george bush's plan. but as you know, neil, privatization would not solve the issues facing social security. i thought the democrats were re-- neil: not to privatize the whole thing but offer young people the option of putting percentage of money in stocks. do you think that they each should have had an obligation, i'm not taking political sides

here to say the way it's going right now is not sustainable. we've got to do something. >> not really because, look, you could do either way or a combination of both. you could raise taxes and pay for the system that people expect they're going to get, or you could change the system and cut their benefits or do some combination of both, but it's not unrealistic for tim kaine to say i'm not going to cut the benefits and we're going to look at payroll tax side. that's not unrealistic. neil: what about finding a way, i know the marching orders for senator kaine to talk about donald trump and providing his taxes. you are savvy when it comes to financing, business, et cetera, do you think regardless whether donald trump should release his taxes that he should be vilified for losing a billion dollars or thereabouts in 1995, when companies lose that amount of money all the time or on the brink or in bankruptcy and come

back many, many times. if we applied that to the auto companies, they would have never been around. >> i think you're giving him too much credit. i think it's fair to criticize. i don't know if vilify is the right word, but, a -- neil: i think they were being vilified tonight. >> there's a major question this billion-dollar loss he reported are those actually his losses or did he find a way to take somebody else's losses and claim them as deductions for himself? to answer that we would need to see the tax returns. if that's what he did, it will be perfectly justified to vilify him. neil: i'm asking, it is odd, if you're talking about billion dollar list, if you apply it to list of companies that doesn't have donald trump in the name. we would never apply it to cisco or chambers lost 2

billion? >> in the case of steve jobs, general motors or john chambers, each of those people recognized their own failures. neil: and they all came back, they all came back, they all came back. >> donald trump never said yes, i failed. and he's blaming everyone else. neil: keep on a little longer with senator mark warner, democrat of virginia. austan goolsbee, real quickly your thoughts, senator. >> i think tim won the debate. mike pence did a good job, he was unable or unwilling -- neil: closer than last week's presidential one? >> probably closer than last week's presidential one. neil: could you picture either one of these being vice president? >> i could picture either one of them. neil: do you think it got nasty? >> after last week, this was not nasty. what you had, though, is mike pence and understandably not

being willing to answer some of the more outrageous things trump has said like nuclear proliferation is okay or all the comments about various groups of americans. he's unwilling to answer it because it's unanswerable. neil: i know you're a busy guy. we're in the scrum. the debate is on. it told me what other people in the area paid for the truck i want. and because we're a truecar certified dealership, i already know the truck he wants. so we're on the same page before he even gets here. -it's fair. -and it's fast. look good? looks great. this is how car buying was always meant to be. this is truecar. ♪

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>> live from longwood university in virginia this is fox business network special coverage of the vice presidential debate. here is neil cavuto. neil: we are here in the spin room where they are still spinning the debate and here's something else i noticed. in the debate hall the candidates have left. this is like i am when i get invited to someone's house. i don't leave. i start ordering pay-per-view movies and start raiding the fridge. that's what's going on here. just thought governor pence, they are still mingling with the press and the people in the room. it is divided three ways.

pence surrogates were fans are friends and senator kaine's surrogates fans and friends and are friends and our manger or student volunteers very similar to the layout at hofstra. i believe they had a lottery type system here for those who wanted to be the event to participate in it and go ahead and witness a little history. just because it was a table which normally allows people to rationally, calmly and very politely debate the issues of the day they said the hell with that and went at each other oftentimes saving a great deal of time by talking over one another. from a different vantage point a certain candidate and deed others pleading about this debate as it was going on. >> that was one of my assignments to keep track of donald trump's twitter account. it was relatively tame. candidates must have heard usa

to leave the stage after lingering for quite some time. you are right the story early on in this debate was the fact that they were so much crosstalk insomuch quite frankly interrupting one candidate or the other. here's one of many examples we pulled out. >> let me talk about this. isn't this a discussion? >> pence: let me interrupt you and finish my sentence if i can. the clinton foundation accepted foreign contributions from foreign governments and foreign donors while she was secretary of state. she had a private server. >> kaine: i get toeigh in. >> moderator: senator please. >> kaine: governor pence doesn't think the world is going so well and he is going to say it's everybody's fault. >> that again was many examples but we did see a number of issues discussed and discussed at length. there were points scored on both sides certainly with donald

trump or tim kaine able to go after donald trump's taxes and do it on just about any occasion he could possibly bring it up a pence was able to pivot and talk about the economy and seem to do so effectively on a number of occasions and again do that at length. here's part of that economic discussion. >> kaine: hillary and i have a plan that's on the table. the term plan is a u. r. fired plan. >> pence: let me say i appreciated do you are hired and you were fired thing. i think you are running a lot of pre-deadlines. >> that was something that pence did a lot as well point out the fact that senator kaine was using as he said these preplanned lines and he put an emphasis on that. in terms of the twitter reaction from the man himself you said we would be monitoring the twitter account and i don't want to disappoint you but it was really quite tame stuff. at the end of the debate mr. trump saying mike pence won

big and we should all be proud of mike. okay well there you go. for the most part what he did was he retreated and quoted what some fans were saying either bashing tim kaine or whatever the case may be. here's an example for you. this is someone else's words. not trump's buddy put it out there. kaine looks like an evil creek out of the that man movies. i'm not sure where to go with that but trump decided he would give it to us so there you go. neil: is very creative. thank you buddy very much. again still in the middle of the spin room where they are coming out and stating their case. one thing that is very clear anecdotally getting to read from a lot of folks is this whole debate seemed a lot tighter in terms of one, whatever then was the presidential debate last week. we are joined by congressman

montejano from the fine state of kansas, republican mayor. it's very good to have you. the tax issue kept coming up for donald trump again and again and creativity points for senator kaine for finding ways to wedge it in their that you have been among those saying you can get that out of the way by bringing those taxes up. >> folks don't care much about donald trump's taxes. they care about there on what you know is clinton and kaine will raise the men's trump and pencil lower them. that's what people are talking about. neil: is so late and someone leaks them out and we still don't know and it gets a going all over again. >> i think tim kaine would have found some reason to be unhappy about something. what people cared about and what governor pence kept talking about tonight was about what matters about people across

america a tax policy to get jobs back in the economy growing again. those are the things that matter to the people of kansas and all across america. neil: i understand but do you think it is hurting donald trump that this issue whatever you say about losses in business and how works and people make money and they don't make money and they have good ears may have bad years but the fact that he is hiding something it distracts from all these things that the republicans want to --. >> i served on the benghazi committee. clinton's 33,000 e-mails from the american public. she remarks from golden -- oldman sacks. there's a long list of things that clinton has hidden from americans for years now. no next week when they are going at a donald trump just ignore the attacks and focus on the things that you just did? >> american cares about jobs and

keeping them safe in the trump penske team can do that. no as we continue doing this frank has the stronger shoulders and the world. the original idea was we would be here for five minutes and now looks like significantly longer. we have got mary k. henry. you are here. i thought you were in remote. very good to see you. >> i'm here with a homecare founder. no how do you guys think it went? >> we think that working people are not fooled that might pence could not defend all of the accusations that were made and that we know that's clinton and kaine are going to raise wages and decrease taxes for middle-class and trump pence is going to eliminate wages. no how are they going to eliminate wages? >> he said he wants to eliminate

the minimum wage. no if we have an open free market wage in all states you think that would be good? do you feel the same way? >> i do. no were you surprised regardless of your views on the subject that no one got into deficits are the debt or the fact that we as a nation are running out of money? >> while he talked about that. he talked about a plan that he would stored -- restore investment in the country. when you raise wages and people have more money. neil: you think you can do that by just hiking taxes on the rich? >> the private sector and the corporations have to pay their fair share of wages where companies are earning record profits and fast food workers can survive on $7.25 an hour. no you agree with this? >> i definitely agree. the wages are one of the things that are tearing us down because everything is going up besides the wages. they rented the groceries. neil: you think all of the

programs in the events that the democratic team wants to makeinn the wealthy and some of these other search taxes that total $1.5 trillion over the next year's? >> senator kaine laid out five things that i can't repeat but the first thing was raise wages, create good jobs and he talked about creating a fair tax system where the middle-class families get a break because there's so much pressure on them and corporations and the wealthy pay more than their fair share. neil: can i ask you this to both of you? what is a fair share? when we raise the tax to 39.6% that was a fair share that we have the surcharges were the affordable care act on the wealthy another 2% and now they are talking about raising it some more. what do you think the rich person should pay in taxes? >> i think what warren buffett has said makes a lot of sense.

the percentage of his income that he pays in taxes shouldn't be more than -- neil: is calling for a minimum of 30% of the top. is 39.6% and over 40% if you include all the others. do you think it should be 45? >> i know the effective tax. i think we should work it out as a nation. we have got to come together and raise wages and make the tax system work for office. neil: do you think everybody should pay taxes when we have 47% not paying any federal income taxes and maybe some for a very good reason but should everyone have skin in the game? >> everyone should have some skin in the game but it appears to me, and i'm just going by what trump said about not knowing the loopholes and not paying taxes. no did he do anything illegal? >> is complicated. neil: it's perfectly legal what

he did. you are defending that? >> absolutely. all the waiters falling on our shoulders and he gets to get away scott free. all the weight waiters falling on my shoulders. no i'm going to put you both down on maybes as donald trump. how about that? >> you can put us at no. neil: thank you very much. you are getting a different perspective from everybody to my friend and colleague lou dobbs. you covered these for so many years as well. the democrats think the democrats won in the republicans think the republicans to get one. lou: and we stand here shocked. neil: the back-and-forth about obligation and donald trump and his taxes but very little talk about the tax structure in this country and how so many, some for perfectly valid reasons i've gotten to the point where they don't pay any federal taxes. lou: the focus size becomes what new tax is going to be raised

and what is the right rates of taxation? no one wants to talk and i talk about it in both parties, they don't want to talk about what is the or. size of government. what is the efficiency level of government? how productive should government be? how productive should our congress and our senate the? how productive? we are looking at enormous, enormous institutional issues and systemic problems and by the way they are going to be ignored in this election as well in either one of the candidates where there has been great candor will be talking honestly about the level of taxation is appropriate just as you are talking with the representatives of the seiu and the republicans will have the same failings and the reality is we still have the government so large, so tremendous it cannot be managed by either party in its current dimension and scope.

neil: an issue near and dear to you border protection all of that, how was that addressed by the economy? lou: i thought they came in a rather weak lee, frankly and obviously the greater the voice and it is the voice of donald trump who has been candid about the wall, securing the border and controlling immigration in doing so in the interest of the nation and that's as far as the left is concerned the democratic party and the democratic ticket it's an nfl mutt to consider the national interest and the value of the judgment that's being made about who will enter this country. there are a huge number of people in this country who now based on this debate that has lasted since 2006 you say oh my gosh it's very insensitive of us to even think about not simply exceeding to the wishes of the illegal immigrant and doing whatever he or she wishes without consideration of our own values and in terms of the dash

one of the great contributions has been donald trump has put forward a candid debate on all of them. neil: emitted a subject of the debate. lou dobbs thank you very much. we will have more from virginia the vice presidential debate now done. you don't want to interpret our quick on line poll so we won't. we will say that this contest, the slug fest looks a lot closer than last week's presidential debate. too soon to judge who won or lost who lost that each articulated their position very strongly. whether they served their boss as well at the top of the ticket anyone can. i should preface as well from this fine stage that b's these number twos have high approval ratings than either of their respective heads of the ticket. just a reminder though you might think it's just the number twos when it comes to their approval ratings. they are actually the number ones. we will have more in debate central here in virginia.

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>> i was listening to the avalanche of insult coming from senator kaine a minute ago. >> hold on a second. it's my time senator. >> kaine: hillary clinton said something in the campaign trail the next day. she said you know what i shouldn't have said that. >> pence: now we are even. neil: that went well. welcome back. i know what you are saying. a lot of you and i was thinking too, the crew was feeling sorry for me. we wanted to sit down hit her

camera battery was dying. so much for that love and warmth they have been a great force in great force in the republican campaign as well in the chairman of the vice presidential campaign very good to see you. it was the slug fest and the two of them going at it was something we didn't see a lot of last week in the presidential debate. >> i thought the american people ready got a glimpse of the mic pence that you and i both know. i know you all have a personal relationship and he personal friend for years is this is the guy who not only is the hard for public service but truly deep on the issues. no he had to spend a lot of time defending donald trump.

and by the way senator kaine was doing the same with hillary clinton. was that trump on a lot of issues whether it's donald trump's comments and it was a distraction for governor pence? >> neil he has been an effective partner in this process in a fierce competitor a fierce competitor since the day to donald trump chose him and i think what really shows is the mic pence is one of the best decisions donald trump has ever made. no one of the things i know this too and this is just a gut level. , that these were very likeable gentleman sitting down. you could argue you don't like this one. >> one of them came across as very likeable. neil: i think i know who you are talking about but my point was they each had passion about their position but there was none of the attention that there was between hillary clinton and donald trump.

>> i don't know if you misinterpreted or not. i was focused on the messages in the policies that governor pence drove home and i thought he was effective in tying back was a complicated situation which is just how dangerous this world is whether china building naval bases in the south china sea or iran pursuing nuclear power or the north koreans testing nukes. no what i got a sense of neck is what would a vice president or president trump due to address its? >> but let me come back to this. americans inherently know that it's a dangerous world right now. what i thought he was so effective in doing tonight is tying it back to the fact that hillary went in was the architect of the failed foreign-policy of the obama administration. arise, rule and the rain of isis. the iranians who are literally affect the way bribing the american government for hostages putting our soldiers on their

knees taking pictures of them and releasing the photos to the press. north korea testing nukes. it's all in defiance because they sense a week and fact was american leadership in the effective things, months before an election that i thought governor pence did so well tonight was tied back to the fact that this wasn't just obama's bad decision-making. hillary clinton was literally the architect of the foreign-policy that is now unraveling on the world stage and then you look in an issue like law enforcement, something that tugs at the heartstrings of every american as these these tragedies play out and communities. what you saw tonight is tim kaine come loaded with divisive rhetoric ready to blame law enforcement to suggest systemic vias and racism in the system. neil: there can be problems in any industry. >> of course there are problems with what the governor did so well tonight was the way we resolve these issues is about bringing everyone together and

overwhelmingly the american people know that our law enforcement community is a law enforcement community that is for good. there is not systemic racism and bias. no i know that books -- both spoke pass each other a lot. i'm sure you don't cling to one versus the other but for some reason there was a pattern, that after the clinton debate we have seen her solidified her position. depending on the polls she is up by six to eight points. pennsylvania, she is built on her lead. do you worry that this thing could be slipping away unless donald trump rally brings his a game? >> ibra prediction to make which is i think this race will reset. at least one more time before election day and maybe two or three more times.

neil: every week it's been like that. >> that is absolutely the case but the four weeks prior to that what was consistently showing was the trend lines were really bad for hillary clinton campaign and they were very good for the trump pence ticket. i think tonight you will see a reset in the race. i think governor pence is performance will generate momentum. neil: some said governor pence may have arrested a slight tonight. >> it's without question that his performance will generate momentum and to the american people it will be clear that hillary clinton and tim kaine want to continue to divide us. they have no policies he was championing tonight. he was focused on divisive rhetoric and personal insults and attacks and i'm almost certain historically senator kaine has been a very effective debater. i have watched all of his

debates. neil: these two were much better at keeping the issues and concise cogent arguments than their counterparts were. that's not disparaging either. but let me ask you about how this plays out now. is it your sense that governor pence at least and you touched on that, has reminded donald trump of the importance of study , the importance of really getting up to speed on this. i know he has studied for debates in the past and he's very serious about this stuff but he was sending a message as well,. >> i know he was thrilled with mike's performance tonight as we heard from him. they were obsolete thrilled and proud of his performance. think it's without question that tonight's performance in the debate will absolutely -- here's

the thing about donald trump. he likes to win and i believe he will be very focused on winning the next two debates. neil: i thank you very very much. i have republican national committee guy who like this fellow doesn't get much sleep that this guy is a lot younger than i remember. either that or i'm getting a lot older. >> i will take the younger. neil: we have a lot more coming up. it's too early to tell but one thing that is coming through again and again in interview after interview, if you like spicy aggressive debates they get to the point even though it might not be your point this was more in keeping with that than what we saw last week out of the presidential candidates. we will have more after this.

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it's also great for finding the perfect used car. you'll see what a fair price is, and you can connect with a truecar certified dealer. so, no matter what you're looking for... there it is. this is how buying a used car should be. this is truecar. ♪ >> i appreciate the you are hired, you were fired thing. you have use of a use of a whole at and you running mate has used a lot of pre-done lines. what you just heard out there is more taxes, $2 trillion in more spending, more deficits and more death and more government and if you think that is all working then you look at the other side of the table. neil: is something i caught the

vice presidential candidate comment looking in the camera talking directly to you. it may just be a cosmetic detail that didn't work wax sean spicer probably feels it does the rnc can occasion's director. he's close to being jerry lewis at the end of the telethon. sean is very good to see you. >> it's all makeup. neil: on the text make -- technique of look into the camera ronald reagan did that a lot. he quoted ronald reagan a lot. yet some of ronald reagan's mannerisms. did that help what one person said had been a slight to the republican ticket and maybe donald trump's performance and maybe your candidate arrested that tonight? >> let's take it back to the single greatest choice of presidential candidate makes as their vice presidential candidate nominee running mate will be. it says a lot about who they

chose, the kind of decisions they will make an -- neil: as you were saying that governor mike pence leaving now. they are like me at a party come the last guest to leave. >> they have a lot of people that want to congratulate them. tonight if you wonder were kind of administration donald trump is going to have tonight would be the day. my kids up oriented, strong and confident. those are the kinds of people that donald trump will surround himself with when he gets into the white house. on the debate itself look, i can't see where there was the style you were bringing up the approach or the substance for the solutions he brought tonight. tim kaine came into this thing think he gave her some one liners around. mike transport a stop to that throw quiken said we are in a substandard debate in a schooled him on issue after issue. neil: you may be stunned to leave right away as governor pence leads the facility tonight that the democrats thought their guy won.

i don't know if you agree with this. i found them both to be likeable people. i found them both to the earnest from your bootstraps. they didn't come from a lot of money and look at them now kind of thing. i think that was certainly more as an inviting type of a venue than what the presidential debate was. >> that's part of the reason they were equally chosen because of their mannerisms and electability. but look tonight was less of a personality contest i will give you that but it was a substandard contest in cane through the one-liners around. neil: wod he think about the number of times they brought up the tax thing? >> again that's what they were hers. k we can come up with 10 lines and repeat them over and over and pence wouldn't have it. we are going to have a substandard discussion and kaine was not prepared for that.

nick: you think donald trump the same issue comes up. >> i hope so. if donald trump has a performance like tonight we will roll into the white house because people are ready for change and that is what he epitomizes. they give that he is the agent of change and hillary clinton is the establishment. she is more of the same. she has been around for 30 years. if you like what you get from your government continue down that path. neil: i had no idea you were not backing hillary clinton. vp candidates tend to use a table in their debate. all the time, sarah palin and joe biden didn't. why is that? do you set the ground rules? >> i think it's negotiated among the team. neil: how does that all were? >> various organizations commissioned presidential debates that determine the site and then the two teams get together. each has a campaign representative that negotiates

whether it's going to be a podium. whether it will be a table or podiums whether or be a town hall style the length of the debate in who goes first everything down to what rooms the teams occupied during the debate. everything is negotiated. neil: how are you holding up? >> i am great. after a performance like tonight neil: it was a fun and engaging thing. >> i think if you are looking for, if you were on the fence i think you fell on our side tonight after watching mike pence. neil: this is going to surprise you but the democrats that if you were on the fence you are going to go -- isn't that so? >> that is so. neil: my buddy connell mcshane >> nael i was giving senator scott a hard time. a sign without a name on it.

what did you think tonight? you may think that governor pence did well but would you think he did well? >> e-mailed the question. i chuckled to myself when i tried to bring president bush by not renegotiating a status of forces negotiation. we did leave the force of 10,000 people there. we wouldn't have isis and the reset with russia. he was very thoughtful and methodical in talking about the economy that is reflected in a lot of the polling that shows people on both sides are saying he's right. >> on the russia questioned economic question and on social media that was getting a lot of attention and a lot of the re-tweeted comments came during a discussion. we are awaiting another presidential debate in st. louis but is there something we can take away that donald trump can emulate? >> you and i talked about the fact that there are singles and

doubles, no home runs and no mistakes in donald trump missed a lot of it easy softball reports back. i think he should sit and room and watch governor pence and watch them debate and look where the transition point is. address the question and don't over answer like he tried to do over explain every little single thing that say what he wants to say about what his beliefs are and i think you will do very well. >> nail back over to you. no connell thank you very much and senator thank you. we have a lot more reaction coming. kellyanne conway the trump campaign manager will be joining us. as a lot of folks are saying hey i can't believe i was watching a vice president of debate, found a really reverting. these are the number two guys that they will be -- that's pretty high praise. morerom virginia right after this. new clients? let's go meet them soon.

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neil: all right gone are the days that kellyanne conway and donald trump's campaign manager ken ghani where she would want and people wouldn't bother. now she is everywhere in crews are literally pulling at her. kellyanne conway give very much. how do you think you went? >> it was a spectacular night from governor pence. i think you see tonight why donald trump selected him to be the running mate. the selection of your running mate is the first decision you make as the presidential nominee and it shows donald trump's leadership and judgment in that regard. i appreciated the fact that governor pence was very tough tonight in very polite and did not have all these unhinged

interruptions. neil: you would interrupt but what was the deal with that? >> really i'm perplexed. the moderator was very good but she was interrupted by senator kaine. i don't think i was her fault. think you is being very impolite to a female. neil: so that's interesting story you raising the female card? >> only because they love to play a 24/7 and a hillary clinton world but it's a serious point that viewers out there neil they deserve a conversation on the issue. they expect to hear each person talking and giving his response and tim kaine was constantly interrupting. i thought it detracted from the conversation. i was proud of governor pence for trying to bring it back to the actual issues. neil: do you think kellyanne looking at this that if you were

to advise donald trump that there might be great guy you come looking that governor pence's performance tonight and maybe study more, having tight clear answers? to your point there's a great deal of over talking but that will serve donald trump well if he does that in the next debate. >> he was really proud of his running mate tonight. i talked to him personally and he spoke to governor pratt -- governor pence. they are two very different people and two very different people who share the same message. neil: would you agree that donald trump could have been prepared more or tightened his argument a little bit more and do more ported poorly did in the first 20 minutes of the debate? >> the vacuum that the created but there are many issues that he will give them the town hall format. m is he looking forward to the town hall format?

you don't have control of the crowd that you have it any say about who is in the audience? >> we have we have been talking to gallup about how they -- undecided voters. at town hall is a natural habitat for donald trump. just today in arizona donald trump had thousands and thousands of people there. yesterday people showed up. they got in line yesterday morning and it was quite remarkable for someone to command that type of crowd when you don't play an instrument or you're not singing. neil: she has gotten better at those kinds of formats. >> i'm not raising expectations. i'm saying that donald trump is a brilliant businessman and he obviously loves the country not to make the sacrifices and he knows the issues. i think in the first debate he was overly gracious to her and got no credit for it.

neil: do you think you will be as gracious? >> to realize he scored no points by naysayers and critics in being so respect up the her. no will he entertain a nuclear option that if he is going to go there she will go there? >> she has been there are ready. all they do is throw insults at donald trump and try to make everybody held to account for something he made six years ago, didn't he? neil: they bring up issues that donald trump said months ago or sometimes just weeks ago. >> speaking of just weeks ago we have seen hillary clinton refer to 10 million hard-working good americans that may not want to vote for her as irredeemable and deplorable and on top of that a

similar situation with donors in the fund-raiser. neil: are you surprised? >> i think this is the year that voters if they have proven nothing else as they will not be told how to think in who to vote for and what's important to them. the rise of donald trump and the rise of bernie sanders on the democratic side shows you voters are doing their own thing. i think donald trump is a natural communicator taking his message to the people through the noise. neil: he was very effective yesterday in his speech explaining how capitalism works and there is nothing illegal going on but would it behoove him to just get these facts out improve it? >> we are looking at one page from a couple of days from 1995. he got a 900 million-dollar loss.

neil: do you know whether or not he paid taxes for the next 20 years? would it not be illegal if he didn't? >> it would not be illegal. "the new york times" had a story this morning meal that said 1/2 million americans have done the same thing in the same year 1995 and that's a provision that has been around since 1918. i can remember president barack obama and his democratic league chosen house and senate saying you know what our first priority should be? that's the great in determination of entrepreneurial america. we reward people who are willing to stick with it in take those losses and carry them forward. you know darned well that donald trump made a profit and pay taxes on those profits. i am being photo bombs.

this guy interrupts like tim kaine. >> that's a good line. neil: thank you both very much. >> he works harder than anyone on tv. neil: this is sean hannity. he's just looking around for someone. thank you very much. i know you have got to fly out of here. one of the things i want to bring up you get a sense of the room and sean hannity is here and all these power players you riddle -- literally have a who's who of people continuing to push their views that their candidates won. of course that is in the eye that the holder but it's fair to say if you are in the trump campaign in looking to stabilize things right now governor mike pence might have been able to do that. congressman dennis kucinich tweeting us right now. anthony scaramucci as well. we have also got the cochair and adam schipper and all those people.

in the meantime i've got to get a sense right now from you congressman kucinich page talk about getting the message out and whether you agree or disagree with the message he was more effective in getting it out tonight? >> i think it's in a draw. what was different though is that my pence had eye contact with the audience constantly and that's something that tim kaine missed an opportunity. the other thing is that mike pence looked at tim kaine and tim kaine and kaine often looked away from him. people notice those kinds of things. the interruptions that kaine made i thought detracted from his ability to get a message across about what hillary clinton stands for and i think in that way it didn't help the campaign out much. when all is said and done i think we are looking at both candidates as the running mates of the principles.

neil: i had it explained to me something like this, whatever slight the trump campaign was experiencing, too early to tell, governor pence interrupted that or slow death or maybe even stop it. what do you think? >> it definitely helps. i sort of felt bad for senator kaine for a moment because it looked like a wild-card game where the flyball came to him in the final hour and he dropped the ball and now the game is running and it looks like he has a win on them. i thought it was thusly terrible. i'm not saying that because i'm a trump surrogate and all that stuff. it was the petulance of the camera. we both know on television a lot of television is visual and i watch it here in detroit and i could not believe his facial expressions. the condensation -- and it dawned on him i've been crushed by this guy and you could see --

neil: that is your opinion. we don't know when we will see. make up from your perspective here do you think this sends a reminder to donald trump who is actually a skilled debater and he took away the entire republican who's who and he got the nomination that there is value and prepping or maybe over prepping? governor pence is famous for doggedly doing the books that there might be a lesson for mr. trump? >> pence is a yen to donald trump yang. neil: that doesn't mean he doesn't need to practice. >> he is a politician. he will be better prepared going into the debate in st. louis.

i attended the first vice presidential debate between dole and mondale in houston texas. in 1996, 76. neil: oh the first one. >> it was a historic debate in tonight's debate was very traditional. it was riveting as you said and i really think pants came across as reassuring and kind of had this doctor's bedside manner. he was almost at times talking to kaine like he was a rebellious teenager. kaine interrupted him 64 times. neil: is that right? b we had a campaign staffer counting and the moderator interrupted once. neil: kellyanne was just saying as a woman she found that offensive. >> being interrupted? neil: and interrupting the way she did and the way she interrupted with it. >> i found it offensive and i also found that she didn't

interrupt cane. she interrupted pants and once again i call this the left-wing media mafia and it's well deserved when we see moderators not staying in bias. neil: is up to the candidates and its perception. >> well it is the right of about pence's he didn't take the bait. he rose above it and stood on ground. neil: all right. we will grade this and look at all these binaries later on but i did find them, i enjoyed this debate more than i did the presidential one taking nothing away from the presidential candidates but this just kept moving and moving. what do you think? >> was very fast pace from the start to look at some of the headlines at the headlines that are arctic crossing some of the country's major news sites. the "washington post" have been talking about this is the headline that pence kaine traded sharp words. the hill, or "the wall street journal" rather saying kaine grove pens on trump's taxes then

of course "politico" and they are saying, they're big headline is kaine struggles on trumps scandals on pence. neil: that seems to be a -- for the media. >> i would not disagree with you there but i've got to point this out because florida was 29 electoral votes is a swing state. look what's on the front page of the "miami herald". this is key. it's a hurricane. florida prepares for hurricane matthew. if you go to their web site you can barely find coverage of the debate. neil: that's a very good point. dennis kucinich i'm wondering you have to connect on an emotional level in these things. any message for the presidential candidates as they get ready for two more debates and how they have to comport themselves?

>> i think that people are looking for presidential candidates to embody a steadiness, a steal inés, and abilities to be temperate. they're looking for that and they are also looking for a compact explanation of what they do when they are president. i think both candidates still have to prove something with respect to that. we all know where the deficits are with both candidates but what we need to know is can the candidates explained directly to the american people what they are going to do specifically and do it in a way without degrading the other candidate? neil: they have run out of time to do that but you are quite right on that. anthony you are big and money raising and what this helped donald trump tonight? >> it's going to help at the money raising neil picked up after the last presidential

debate. we raised $18 million and we have created a tremendous amount of momentum. one other thing about governor pence, he's a phenomenal money raiser. neil: there is that. make a you are noticing that the last event. >> absolutely even though we didn't get a bump in the polls we got a bump in fund-raising. neil: guys i want to thank you all and thanks to my mic through here. they have worked their high knees off. the fact of the matter is this is to debates down to debates down to more debates down two more to go. annexes in st. louis and we will be there this weekend. history still in the making.in you are watching "fox news." lat, you may have a right to vote on a plan to reorganize and pay claims in the garlock/coltec bankruptcy. garlock's and coltec's products were used in industrial and maritime settings,

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>> live from longwood university in virginia this is fox business network special coverage of the neil: all right, we're here ince the spin room, they are still spinning, here is something else i noted, candidates have not left. this is like i am, i don't leave leave.

very similar to layout it was in hofstra. a table that allows people calmly, and politely debate the issues of the day, they said to hell with that often times saving a great deal of time.in colocolin mcchain has been monitoring. about it debate as it was going on. >> that is one of my assignment to keep track of donald trump's twitter account . it was relatively tame. candidates must have heard usa to leave the stage after

lingering for quite some time. you are right the story early on in this debate was the fact that they were so much crosstalk insomuch quite frankly interrupting one candidate or the other. here's one of many examples we pulled out. >> let me talk about this. isn't this a discussion? >> pence: let me interrupt you and finish my sentence if i can. the clinton foundation accepted foreign contributions from foreign governments and foreign donors while she was secretary of state. she had a private server. >> kaine: i get to weigh in. >> moderator: senator please. >> kaine: governor pence doesn't think the world is going so well and he is going to say it's everybody's fault. >> that again was many examples but we did see a number of issues discussed and discussed at length. there were points scored on both sides certainly with donald

trump or tim kaine able to go after donald trump's taxes and do it on just about any occasion he could possibly bring it up a pence was able to pivot and talk about the economy and seem to do so effectively on a number of occasions and again do that at length. here's part of that economic discussion. >> kaine: hillary and i have a plan that's on the table. the term plan is a u. r. fired plan. >> pence: let me say i appreciated do you are hired and you were fired thing. i think you are running a lot of pre-deadlines. >> that was something that pence did a lot as well point out the fact that senator kaine was using as he said these preplanned lines and he put an . in terms of the twitter reaction from the man himself you said we would be monitoring the twitter account and i don't want to disappoint you but it was really quite tame stuff. at the end of the debate mr. trump saying mike pence won

big and we should all be proud of mike. okay well there you go. for the most part what he did was he retreated and quoted what some fans were saying either bashing tim kaine or whatever the case may be. here's an example for you. this is someone else's words. not trump's buddy put it out there. kaine looks like an evil creek out of the that man movies. i'm not sure where to go with that but trump decided he would give it to us so there you go. neil: is very creative. neil: thank you very much. still in middle of this scrum here in the in room, where they are coming out, stating their case, one thing clear. getting read from folks, this whole debate seemed tighter in terms of who every thought won than presidential debate last week. with me right now, congressman

mike pompeo. very good to have you. >> great to be with you. f neil: tax issue kept coming up. give creativity points to senator kaine for finding ways to wedge it in there.dg you have been along among these saying get them out. >> senator kaine brought that up. folks don't care about donald trump's taxes they clai care about their own. we know that clinton and kaine will bring them up. neil: someone leaks them out it is -- it gets it going all over. >> i don't know. i think tim kaine would have found some reason to be unhappy about something. what people cared about and what governor pence kept talking about is what matters to people.

a tax policy that gets jobs back and the economy growing. i think people across america,tp that. i found. neil: do you think. that it is hurting donald trump, that this issue, with losses and businesses this islo how it works, people have good years and bad years, but he is hiding something, that distracts from things that republican team wants to pounce. >> i think it is funny that donald trump is hiding things, i served on the benghazi committee, hillary clintoning not release her remarks, there- is a long litany of things that secretary clinton has notth released for 30 years now. neil: you think next week that donald trump ignores tax thing and focus on things youan alluded t? >> that is the right thing to

do. neil: congressman thank you very much. my cameraman frank has the strongest shoulders in the world. we originally said 5 minutes, right. you are here, very good to seere you. >> i am here with cher lean bright wood. >> we think that working people are not fooded, mike pence could not defend all accusations that were made. we know that clinton and kaine are going to raise wages, decrease taxes for middle class. neil: how do they eliminate wages. >> he wants to eliminate minimum wage. neil: i if we have an open

free market wage that is a problem. >> i do. neil: okay. >> you file th feel the same way. >> i do. y neil: were you surprised that no one got into deficitsers on debt or fax tha fact that we as a nation are running out of money. >> he talked about a plan to restore investment. you -- >> do you think you can do that, by just hiking taxes on the rich? >> no, i think that private sector and corporations have to pay their fair share of wages to people where companies earn record profits, fast-food workers cannot survive on 7.25 an hour. neil: you agree i do. wages are taking us down everything else is going up.id neil: do you think that

programs and investment that democratic team wants to makent can be done by hiking taxes onwa wealthy and other surtaxes that total now, about 1.5 trillion. >> senator kaine laid out 5 things that i can't repeat but first thing was raise wages, create good jobs, he talked about creating a fair tax system. middle class family get a break. because there is so much pressure on them. corporation and wealthy pay more of their fair share. neil: could i ask you, what is a fair share? when we raised to 39.6% that was a fair share. then we had the surcharges for affordable care on wealthy, 2% more, now they are talking about raising it still some more. a when do you think a rich person should pay? in taxes. >> i could what warren buffet said makes sense, percentage

of his income, that he pays in taxes should not be more than -- >> 30%, but top rate is thrieve 39.6%. >> i know that the tax rate. neil: fair enough. what do you think. >> i think we should work it out as a nation, we have to come together and raise wages and make the tax system work for all of us. neil: do you think that everyone should pay taxes with 47% not paying federal income taxes. >> everyone should have some skin in the game, but it is appears to me when he talks about i am going by what trump said about being smart and not -- knowing the loopholes, if you know the loopholes. neil: do you think he did anything illegal. >> it sounds like he did. neil: what did you found out it is legal what he did.

>> i think if all stupid people are paying taxes and weight falling on our shoulders, he gets away scott freeze. scot-free. neil: i'm putting you down as maybes on trump, how is that. >> you can put us down as no, neil. neil: you cover these for so many years, democrats think that democrats won, and republicans think that republican ticket won. >> we stand here shocked. one thing interesting in this, about observation, and when donald trump and his taxes, but little talk about tax structure. how so many some for valid reasons, where half don't pay any federal income taxes. >> focus is what new tax will be know raised, what is the

right rate of taxation. no one wants to talk, i'm talking about both parties,, they don't want to talk about appropriate size ofdo government, what is the. efficiency level of government. how productive should government and congress and senate be. and executive? we're looking at huge institutional issues, systemic problem. by the way, they will be ignored in this election as well, neither candidate, will be talking honestly about level of taxation that is appropriate, just as you were talking.u and th republicans will have same failing, reality is we still have a government so large, if cannot be managed by third party. neil: border protection all that.

how was that addressed? >> i thought they came at itn a weakly. greater voice in it is voiceth of donald trump who has been candid about the wall. cure -- in the interest of the nation, as far as left is concerned, democratic party, it is -- to even consider the national interest. and value of who will enter this country, huge numbers of people in this country based on this debate could say, it is very incentive of us to think about not just exceeding to wishes of illegal immigrant and doing what he or she wishes without considering our own values, and our own considerations in terms of national interest.

one of great contribution has been that donald trump has put forward a candid debate on all of this. neil: he made it a subject of the debate. lou dobbs thank you, we'll have more from virginia, vice: presidential debate now done. you don't' to interpret quick on-line polls, we won't. but we'll say this contest, this slugfest looks closer than last week's presidential debate. let's say each articulated their position strongly. whether they served their bosses well. anyone's guess, i should preface this. that these number twos have higher approval ratings than either of their heads of the ticket. you might think it is a number two. when it comes to their apr approval ratings, they are actually the number ones. we'll have more from debate

central here in virginia. guess what guys, i switched to sprint. sprint? i'm hearing good things about the network. all the networks are great now. we're talking within a 1% difference in reliability of each other. and, sprint saves you 50% on most current national carrier rates. save money on your phone bill, invest it in your small business. wouldn't you love more customers? i would definitely love some new customers. sprint will help you add customers and cut your costs. switch your business to sprint and save 50% on most current verizon, at&t and t-mobile rates. don't let a 1% difference cost you twice as much. whoooo! for people with hearing loss, visit sprintrelay.com.

>> i have to tell you, i was listening to avalanche of insults out of senator kaine. >> hold on. >> my time. >> your two minutes. >> thanks, i forgive you. >> hillary clinton said something, the next day, she said i should not have saidpa that. >> let's -- >> two minutes. >> right, now we're even.: neil: okay that went well. welcome back. i know what you are saying, a lot ofent we you, i was thinkin. crew was feeling sorry for me, neil we looked after your health, sit down.

no, our camera battery was w dying. so much for that love and warmth they have been great. f this fellow, been a great force in republican campaign, as well. chairman of mike pence for vice president campaign. it was certainly a slugfest. already you hear that the two going at it, is something we did not see a lot of last week. >> slugfest maybe, i thought that american people got a glimpse of mike pence that we know. i know that you all have a personal relationship, he has been a personal friend for years, i thought that americanon people saw or really a hour and a half study, this guy not only has a heart for public service but she is deep on the issues -- he is deep on the issue. neil: but he had to spend a lot of time defending donald trump, senator kaine did the same with

hillary clinton.at was that tough on a lot of issues that were needlessly dredged up, whether the donaldt trump comments on the miss universe, a distraction? >> no he has -- he has been an effective partner in this process since the day that donald trump chose>> him. ioc think what tonight shows tht mike pence is one of the best decisions that donald trumpll hs made in -- >> one thing that i noticed, this is just a duck level reach. that these were likeable men sitting there. you could argue., that >> onene came across as likeabl. neil: all right i think i know who you are thinking about. but, say what you will, passion about their possession but none of tension that there was between hillary clinton and donald trump, did i

misinterpret that. >> i was focused on messages and policies that governor pence drove home. i thought it was interestingch his, how i dangerous this worlds is. you know t south china sea and iran pursuing nuclear power and north korean testing nukes. neil: i did not get a sense of, what would a vice president, pence or president trump do to n address that.nt >> let me come back to this, americans know that it is a dangerous world right now, i thought he was so effective at d doing tonight tying it to fact that hillary clinton, of theto architect of the failed foreign policy of the obama administration. rise, ruling and reign of isis, iranians who are bribing american government for hostages, putting our soldiershf

them, north korea testing nukes, that is all in defiance becauses that's sense a weak and feckless american leadership, the month before an election that i thought governor pence did well, tie it to fact that this is not just obama'sed about decisiono making this -- hillary clinton was literally architect of the foreign policy that is now unraveling on the world stage. and. and then you look at an issue like law enforcement that tugs at heart strings of everyth americansin as these tragedieses playev out, you saw tim kaine ce loads with divisive, hot rhetoric, ready to blame law enforcement toking is systemic biasen --ing is suggest systemic biased. y that governor did so well, the way, we have solve the issues to bring everyoneon together. american people know our law

enforcement community is for good, there is not a systemic racism in bias. neil: they both talked past eact other a lot. let me ask about the greater,no you follow the polls like i do. for some reasons, there was a pattern, that after the trump -- clinton debate, we have sense her solidify her position, a s slight lead in florida. in this state up by 8 points, pennsylvania, do you worry, thae this things be slipping away, unless donald trump really brings his a-game in st. louis. >> i have a predict to make, i think that this race will reset, at least one more time before election, maybe a couple more. neil: you are right about. this week has been that way. >> that is the case, you know you talk about last week could h

weeks prior, what was setting in showing that trend lines were bad for hillary clinton's campaign, and good for trump/pence ticket, we have time, tonight, you will see a reset in race, i think that governor pence's performance will generate momentum. it will -- >> someone saidnc that governor pence might have arrested slide tonight. what do you make after that? >> ine think this is without question that he his performance tonight would generate momentum. and i think that it was -- i think to american people, it will be clear, that you know hillary clinton, and tim kaine, want to continue to divide us, they had no policies she was champions, he was focused on divisive rhetoric, personal insults and attack, almost person that heftily senator kaine has been a very effective

debater, but you know. neil: so was your guy. >> true. neil: they were better at keeping and sticking to issues than i think that their counterparts were. that is not disparaging either. but let me ask you about. how this plays out now. is it your sense that governor pence at least, has stabilized. and reminded donald trumpde importance of studying of getting up to speed on this. you know, i know he studied for debates in past. he was sending a message, we can't --ve >> hig he was thrilled with mika performance, we heard from them, they were thrilled expsm proude. it will -- here is thing about donald trump,l he likes to win.

neil: okay. >> i believe he will be focused on winning next two debates.nn >> thank you verying much.xt >> t i'm already jumping to next guy. national committee guy. this guy is a lot younger than e remember. either that ore s i'm getting at older. >> i'lls take the younger.ha neil: i wisht or i was. >> more coming up from here, split reads, but one thing that is coming through again again, you have seen, if you like feisty debates, get toes to point, it -- that gets to the point, thise was more in keeping with that than last week out of president at candidates, we'll have more after this. nter this.

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>> i appreciate the you are hired, you were fired thing. you have use of a use of a whole at and you running mate has used a lot of pre-done lines. what you just heard out there is more taxes, $2 trillion in more spending, more deficits and more death and more government and if you think that is all working then you look at the other side of the table. neil: is something i caught the

vice presidential candidate comment looking in the camera talking directly to you. it may just be a cosmetic detail that didn't work wax sean spicer probably feels it does the rnc can occasion's director. he's close to being jerry lewis at the end of the telethon. sean is very good to see you. >> it's all makeup. neil: on the text make -- technique of look into the camera ronald reagan did that a lot. he quoted ronald reagan a lot. yet some of ronald reagan's mannerisms. did that help what one person said had been a slight to the republican ticket and maybe donald trump's performance and maybe your candidate arrested that tonight? >> let's take it back to the single greatest choice of presidential candidate makes as their vice presidential candidate nominee running mate will be. it says a lot about who they

chose, the kind of decisions they will make an -- neil: as you were saying that governor mike pence leaving now. they are like me at a party come the last guest to leave. >> they have a lot of people that want to congratulate them. tonight if you wonder were kind of administration donald trump is going to have tonight would be the day. my kids up oriented, strong and confident. those are the kinds of people that donald trump will surround himself with when he gets into the white house. on the debate itself look, i can't see where there was the style you were bringing up the approach or the substance for the solutions he brought tonight. tim kaine came into this thing think he gave her some one liners around. mike transport a stop to that throw quiken said we are in a substandard debate in a schooled him on issue after issue. neil: you may be stunned to leave right away as governor pence leads the facility tonight that the democrats thought their

guy won. i don't know if you agree with this. i found them both to be likeable people. i found them both to the earnest from your bootstraps. they didn't come from a lot of money and look at them now kind of thing. i think that was certainly more as an inviting type of a venue than what the presidential debate was. >> that's part of the reason they were equally chosen because of their mannerisms and electability. but look tonight was less of a personality contest i will give you that but it was a substandard contest in cane through the one-liners around. neil: would he think about the number of times they brought up the tax thing? >> again that's what they were hers. k we can come up with 10 lines and repeat them over and over and pence wouldn't have it. we are going to have a substandard discussion and kaine was not prepared for that.

nick: you think donald trump the same issue comes up. >> i hope so. if donald trump has a performance like tonight we will roll into the white house because people are ready for change and that is what he epitomizes. they give that he is the agent of change and hillary clinton is the establishment. she is more of the same. she has been around for 30 years. if you like what you get from your government continue down that path. neil: i had no idea you were not backing hillary clinton. vp candidates tend to use a table in their debate. all the time, sarah palin and joe biden didn't. why is that? do you set the ground rules? >> i think it's negotiated among the team. neil: how does that all were? >> various organizations commissioned presidential debates that determine the site and then the two teams get together. each has a campaign representative that negotiates

whether it's going to be a podium. whether it will be a table or podiums whether or be a town hall style the length of the debate in who goes first everything down to what rooms the teams occupied during the debate. everything is negotiated. neil: how are you holding up? >> i am great. after a performance like tonight neil: it was a fun and engaging thing. >> i think if you are looking for, if you were on the fence i think you fell on our side tonight after watching mike pence. neil: this is going to surprise you but the democrats that if you were on the fence you are going to go -- isn't that so? >> that is so. neil: my buddy connell mcshane >> nael i was giving senator scott a hard time. a sign without a name on it.

what did you think tonight? you may think that governor pence did well but would you think he did well? >> e-mailed the question. i chuckled to myself when i tried to bring president bush by not renegotiating a status of forces negotiation. we did leave the force of 10,000 people there. we wouldn't have isis and the reset with russia. he was very thoughtful and methodical in talking about the economy that is reflected in a lot of the polling that shows people on both sides are saying he's right. >> on the russia questioned economic question and on social media that was getting a lot of attention and a lot of the re-tweeted comments came during a discussion. we are awaiting another presidential debate in st. louis but is there something we can take away that donald trump can emulate? >> you and i talked about the fact that there are singles and

doubles, no home runs and no mistakes in donald trump missed a lot of it easy softball reports back. i think he should sit and room and watch governor pence and watch them debate and look where the transition point is. address the question and don't ov ansr litrieto d hit it say what he wants to say about his beliefs.at >> h neil back to you. neil: all right. thank you. >> senator thank you. we have i lot more reaction, kellyanne conway, trump campaign manager will join us. a lot of folks saying, i can't a believe i was watching a vice d presidential debate, and i founy it rivetting, we'll have more from virginia, right after this. i'm jamie foxx for verizon. in the nation's largest independent study

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neil: all right, gone are daysil that kellyanne conway, donald trump's campaign manager could go anywhere she's and people would not bother her.ou here happy to have her join us now. >> thank you. neil: how do you think it went. >> a spectacular night from i governor pence, i think you see why donald trump selected him to be his running mate.e that is the first big decision you make as presidential nominee,en it shows donald trums leadership and judgment in thath regard, i appreciate the fact this governor pence was toughid and polite without all of these

interruptions. neil: he didwo too, but what is the deal. >> i am perplexesed to what senator kaine did. neil: monitor.r >> she was good, she was interrupted and ignored byed senator kaine consistently. i think he was being very impolite to a female.to neil: a interesting, you are raiding the -- raising the female card. >> onlyis because they love toca play it 24/7 in the clintonie world. thewere viewers expect and desee response on the issues, tim kaine was interrupting, i thought it detracted from the substance of the conversation. i was proud of governor pence for keeping his cool, and trying to bring it back to the issues as the center of the conversation. neil: do you think if you havelo advised donald trump there might

be great value looking at governor pence's performance ano studyingki more, having tight clearance sers. -- clear answers that would o serve donald trump well if he does that? >> he was proud of his running mate. tweeted it out, i talked to hime as they say, they are very- different people, they just share the same message.y neil: i don't know if you agree donald trump could have been prepared more or tightened hise argumentth more, more of first 0 minutes of the debate. >> i say 30 or 40 minutes he did a great job but there are many issues that he could take to hillary clinton, in town hall format. neil: is he looking forward to because it is town hall. you don't have control of crowdo

notrm a donald trump trump crow. >> not by a long shot.ny we've been talking to gallup how they collect the audience, i do want is a they town hall format is ahe natural habitat for donad trump, he is out there every day with people, hillary clinton is not, today in arizona, donald trump had thousands of people there yesterdayju people showed up, they got in line yesterday morning,st remarkable for someoe to command that type of crowd,or when you don't play an instrument or not singing. neil: she has gotten better at those. >> she does more fundraisers than formats. neil: you don't want to raise expectations. >> i am not, i am saying donald trump is a brilliant businessman hes. loves his country enough ti make news sacrifices to run for president. in first debate he was overly gracious to her, and got no credit. neil: you don't think he will be

gracious. >> he should be respectful. but he got no points, for being respectful to her. neil: that nuclear option, coult it get ugly? >> she lives there. all see this does, you saw in her running mate, they justin a they insult donald trump, mike pence had it right. neil: they argue, that they are bringing up issues that donald trump said months ago, sometimes weeks. >> and weeks ago, we see back-to-back that hillary clinton refers to tens of millions of hard working, good americans, never done anything to hurt except maybe not want to vote for her as deplorable, and the way she insulted bernie sanders o voters in a similar

situation. neil: are youthe surprised thas gotten very little media play. >> i'm not really surprised. i think that this is year, voters, will notat be told how o think who to vote for, rise of w donald trump, and republican side, and bernie sanders on the democratic side. i think that donald trump is a natural communicator. neil: onor tax thing, he wasai effective yesterday, there was nothing illegal going on, would it behoove him to get the taxes out. >> lookhim we're looking at one page, a couple of pains from 19 -- 1995,. neil: do you know whether he did noton pay taxes? >> i do not know that, and "new york times" does not either,

that is why they say, he may not have. neil: it would be illegal if he didn't. >> not illegal. new york times have a story this morning that showed a half a million americans did the same thing in the same year of 1995. that a provision that has been around since 1918, i don'tt rememberha president barack obaa and democratic, control half of senate in first years he was in washington saying do you know what ouru first priority should be. neil: many companies have used it. >> we reward people, who areal willing to stick with it, carry those losses forward you know in years to follow donald trump a made a profit and paid taxes on thatd profit. >> do you know, he -- i write you, you never answer my e-mails. >> you are being photo bombed. neil: he interrupts.th

>> ridiculous. neil: like tim kaine. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> we love you, the neil cavuto he works harder than anything else on tv. neil: that is sean hannity looking for something. >> thank you.ne >> i want to go, you catch up here, i know you have to fly out of hire, give you a senseuc of room, and sean hannity, you have a who's who of people continuing to push their view their candidate won. now that is in the eyes of thes beholder, if you are trump campaign, you are looking to stabilize things right now, governor mike pence might haveta been able to do, that congressman dennisve kucinich joining us now. anthony scar -- as well, it -- in meantime, i have to get,

right now from you, congressman kucinich, theyri talk about getting message out, whether you agree or not, who was more affective getting it out? >> i think it is a draw this way, you know, but what different is that, mike penceis had eye contact with the audience. all of time. c tim kaine missedon that, months men lookhi at tim kaine, kaine look away. people notice those things, the inrepresentation that kaineokin made, igs -- interruption thatth kaine made detracted from his ability to get a message across about what hillary clintonut stands for, if that way, i think he did not help his campaignin that much. but when all said and done, i think we're looking at both candidates, quitting themselves as running mates of principles. neil: i had it explained, some

whatever side trump campaign was experiencing,en governor pence, stopped it. >> he held them, i fell bad for senator kaine for a moment, it looked like a wild card game,nt the flyball came for final out and he dropped ball, now the game is running, it looks like the other team is going to win. i thought he was terrible, i'm not just saying that because of am a trump serogate, but pet u-- pet lens of camera, i could not believe hisis facial expressiona andci condensation and anger, at 10:15:17 it donned on dawned ony

god i've been crushed. neil: i don't know that is --. what you you feel, do you think that reminds to donald trump, who is very skill debater, took away the republican who's who. that there isll value, in preppg maybe, over prepping? governor pence is famous are doing the books.fa that there might be a lesson for mr. trump ahead. >> you know pence is yen to donald trump's yang. he is a businessman, not a politician, i do feel he will be better prepared. neil: businessmen study. >> correct, he will be better prepared, i wanted to say, i attended first vice presidential debate between dole and mondale in houston, texas.

1996. 76. neil: the first one? >> 1976. and tonight, debate of traditional, rivetting. and i really think that pence came across as reassuring with a doctor's bedside manner, almost talking to kaine like he was a rebellious teenager, kaine int runed him 64 times. neil: right.64 >> we have a staffer counting, and elaine interrupted pence every time. neil: asking as a woman, kellyanne said that as a woman, she found that offensive? >> oh, buyin being interrupted?r >>up i found it offensive and i found she did not interrupt kaine, just pens. t

pence, iha called this left wing media mafia that is well deserved when we see moderatorse notn we staying unbiased. neil: it is up to candidates to counter for that. >> it c is, but pence did not te the bait, he rose above it, stood on high ground.s neil: allhe right, adam shapiro, will grade this and look at fineries later oi did find i enjoyed this debate more than presidential one, this keptak moving, what doin you think?pr >> it did it was fast-paced. but headlines crossing and ofy the major news sites washington post, been talkingha about thiss that pence and kaine trade shari words, and hill, they got or "wall street journal" sayingar that kaine grilled pence on o trumpr taxes, then there is politico, they say, that kaine

strugglesig to pin trump's scandals on pence. >> they are favoring democratic candidate. >> i would not disagree. but, you know, florida with 29 electoral votes, look at front page miami hairald. hurricane. souther florida prepares for hurricane matthew, you go to web site, a picture. you canhew. barely find coveragf the debate. neil: a good point. dennis kucinich, connecting to anh emotional level with peopl. any message for presidential candidate, as they ready for two more debates on how that have to comport themselves? i.

>> i think that people are looking for presidential candidates to embody a steadiness, steeliness. they are looking for that andto they are looking for a compacta explaination what they do if a are president. we need to know for candidates to explain to the american people, who t they are going to do, specifically, and do it in a way without den grades the other. neil: they are running out ofto time, but are you right.di anthony, you are always big inre money raising q too. would this help donald trump tonight? >> it will help. but, money raising, neil, really picked up after the last presidential debate. we raised $18 million that day, we have created a tremendous

amount of momentum, another thing about governor pence, he is a fond fundamental moneyhe raiser. neil: there is that, you noticed that after last debate. >>e absolutely, even though we didn't quite bet a bump in poll we got a bump in fundraising. we have a a>> a fundraiser nextk in texas, a great place to mine money. >> know that. all right, thank you all, thank yothankyou for your patience. y and myou crew, they have worked their hiney's off, this not too big debates down, next in st. louis, we'll be there this weekend. history still in the making. d youown are watching fox busine.

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♪music ♪yea, you can be the greatest ♪you can be the best ♪you can be the king kong ♪bangin on your chest ♪you can beat the world you can beat the war♪ ♪you can talk to god while bangin on his door♪ ♪you can throw your hands up you can beat the clock♪ ♪you can move a mountain you can break rocks♪ ♪you can be a master don't wait for luck♪ ♪dedicate yourself and you can find yourself♪ ♪standin in the hall of fame ♪yea ♪and the world's gonna know your name, yea♪ ♪and you'll be on the walls of the hall of fame♪ ♪you can be a champion ♪be a champion ♪in the walls of the hall of fame♪ ♪be students, be teachers be politicians, be preachers♪

♪yea, yea ♪be believers, be leaders, be astronauts, be champions♪ ♪standin in the hall of fame test their wings tonight. neil: to put it mildly. to put it mildly. ♪ announcer: live from longwood university in farmville, virginia, this is fox news's special coverage of the fox news presidential debate. here is neil cavuto. neil: lou dobbs said it best. both candidates will test each other and both will comport to a manner that is presidential and if god forbid something should happen to the guys that want to be president we could step into the job and do just fine. welcome, everybody, i'm neil cavuto. we're minutes away from the vice-presidential debate. a forum taking place in a universi