>> the government is too big and it spends too much money. john: they cover his mistakes but ignore much of the argument. they ignore his good ideas. >> parents get a choice where their children attends school. john: the media talk about donald's and hillary's health but never talk about gary. john: they praise donald trump's

business record but ignored gary's. >> new mexico is a state that's 2-1 democrat. john: who always gary johnson. that's our whole show tonight. who is gary johnson? we know he's the libertarian candidate for president. but recent polls show 40% of americans don't even know he's running yet johnson has more governing experience than any of the other candidates. people say hillary is so experienced. but experienced at what? lying? raising money? manipulating people? as a senator the only bills she got passed were renaming things like post offices. as secretary of state she didn't accomplish much that was good.

in the white house she was polite and smeared hour husband's critics. donald trump has at least run things and built successful businesses but often in nasty ways. by contrast gary johnson was governor of new mexico for two years. he was republican, elected twice in a democratic state. he veto the bad bills and held a line on spending. why don't more people take him seriously? one reason is he has been made to look stupid when fielding questions from the media. >> what is aleppo. john: two weeks later he called this an aleppo moment.

>> house your favorite foreign leader. any country. name one foreign leader you respect and look up to, anybody. >> shimon peres. >> i was talking about living. >> i guess i'm having an aleppo moment. >> but i'm giving you the whole world. >> i know. john: i turn to insight to my favorite magazine, "reason." what's going on here? >> i wish that gary johnson had answers to those questions. anybody should be able to pull an angela merkel out of their pocket. john: why would he admire merkel? >> he set himself up. if he hadn't had the first aleppo moment he wouldn't have been called out for the second. but he's rarely given an opportunities to explain this

broader foreign policy platform. john: it wasn't like they were talking about syria, they were talking about something else and suddenly he said what would you do about aleppo? i would have said what, a leopard? it's coming from nowhere and he gets smeared. >> it's charitable of you to give him the benefits of the doubt. i think this notion that in this particular cycle the libertarian party is the party looking seriousness. it's one i struggle to accept in the face of donald trump. >> what a smear. gary johnson has done a lot of good stuff. i covered him after he vetoed the excess of his legislature. when he was governor of new mexico he kept saying no. >> i vetoed half of the legislative product. john: they mist have had it you. >> they did.

john: a fellow republican called him ignorant of the legislative process. >> i said i'm vetoing this legislation because it's way too long and we don't even know what it says. john: many of those bills sounded wonderful. establish a pilot program allowing the state to reimburse grandparents who take care of children and welfare families. pilot program i think is the key word there. john: it sounds good. we'll test it before we funds it. >> the agenda was about growing government and spending more money and not making a difference. john: but all the spending -- >> i vetoed a dog and cat exercise bill. but for my signature it would have been law in new mexico that pet stores exercise their dogs

and pets two hours a day three times a week. then i have to establish the dog and cat exercise police. where does government end and personal responsibility begin? reporter: it's nice to hear that from a politician. >> i first encountered gary johnson when i was an inherent for reason magazine. i was set out to transscriebt world's longest interview. wow, this guy sounds like he's kinds of principled and pretty unusual for a politician who actually got elected in a democratic state. john: it's impressive who gary johnson who isn't the best speaker got elect the twice in a democratic state. he did it by laying out good ideas. >> i have children, too.

john: he touted his use of the veto pen. >> this pen made gary johnson unpopular with professional politicians. but he doesn't mind. john: i wish he were allowed in the presidential debate. >> he's promising everything to everyone. one two things is going to happen. either he doesn't deliver on the promises to everybody that he's making or we are going to have the largest tax increase the state has ever seen. citizens of new mexico, guard your pocketbooks. >> public built versus private built they have the same efficiencies of efficiency and organization. we are comparing apples and oranges. john: i wish he would say that to hillary when she says government can do it just as well. >> i like that he talks about tradeoffs and cost benefits which is something that's absent

from the debate right now. when you hear them compare thank plans for maternity leave and childcare it's a question of the details of the plan. they get everything they want, exactly. >> johnson as governor he added new mexico added 90,000 jobs when he was governor. cato called him one of the four governors proposing one of the biggest income tax cuts. all good stuff. >> you are seeing pushback. the idea that national review conservative. >> never gary johnson. he's not conservative. not even all that libertarian. johnson become governor.

the budget grew at 7% a year. he had no control over. i understand people better at parsing these numbers say the actual growth and spending was much smaller. let's not get carried away. gary johnson is not libertarian jesus come to save us all. but the idea that somehow because spending grew during a relatively flush time in a democratically dominated state means he's not a real libertarian. it basically never happens. there was a feature we did in "reason" magazine where we looked for times when government had been cut anywhere in the world, anywhere in history. the research for that piece was tricky. we did not find much. john: yawn on ha -- johnson's ot

said things like this. >> liberty means our bodies and mind belong to ourselves. that's clear. understandable. but here is now johnson began. >> i would like everyone to know i have a wonderful family, son eric, daughter, granddaughter, and fiance, best friend kate. it's best to be in love and i'm in love. john: i'm happy he's in love but i can't believe that's the first thing he said when he had an opportunity to introduce freedom to people. >> on one hand i think that's a missed the opportunities. on the other the reputation of libertarians is we are basically robots that say the word liberty over and over.

maybe he's not wrong to talk about the cheesy part of the family. he's a politician and politicians will always break your heart. particularly if you are a libertarian. when he was governor he either was a little bit of crony capitalism under this administration. he increased the tax credit for fill makers to come to the state. john: he cut the income tax and capital gains tax and state tax. >> he was dr. no. he said that's not okay and i don't approve of that. 750 vetoes shows gary johnson understands the same things at the same time. john: i don't think most

americans like that. they think they can get free stuff. >> if you ask them, the reason foundation did a pooling project. we asked people, do you think we should increase spending on entitlement x? then we said do you think we should increase spending if it means we should decrease spending elsewhere or raise taxes? when people understand there is a trade-off, they think more critically about it. a lot of it comes with the framing of the question. and i like the idea that gary johnson being in the race helped reframe some those questions a little bit in 2016. >> i bet the legal amount in mayor kay was allowed to bet on gary johnson. obviously i'm going to lose that. are you surprised he didn't do better? >> i think he did pretty well. he's polling at 8% somewhere thereabouts. i think the idea he got 1% in

the last cycle and we can expect him to do significantly better than that this time around. john: how much better? >> i will put him at 3%. john: i'll put him at per. did you know governor johnson used to run a marijuana company? not you chairman of the company is a former judge. a judge who used to lock up users. he will join us next.

>> let's legalize marijuana in this country. john: let's legalize more than marijuana. prohibition, the drug war has done' more damage to people than even the drugs do. but gary johnson won't go that far probably because politically it's too' of a shock to people's brains. johnson's opponents say he wants to legalize weed base's pot weed. johnson says he stopped getting high when he ran for president, and he stopped running his

marijuana company. it sells marijuana-based health and beauty aids. he turns his company over to others. and the chairman of the company is a former superior court judge from california. you were a former drug warrior. you used to lock people up for using drugs. now you are running a marijuana company? >> i first met gary johnson when he was the sitting governor of new mexico in 1999 and he came out in favor of regulating the control of marijuana. he got me into the business and i'm proud to be there. john: how did you go from jailing people? >> you know, i saw in my own courtroom that we were churning low-level drug offenders through the system for no good purpose.

controlled substance is the biggest oxymoron in the world today. as soon as you prohibit a substance you give up your control. people who use these substances don't do any harm to anybody. as an adult, it makes as much sense to me for the government to control what i as an adult put into my body as i put into my mind. it's none of their business and gary johnson agrees. john: many police chiefs you say love the marijuana laws because it i am prove their statistics? >> police are bureaucracies like anyone else and they are aware of their crime solving statistics. with drug crimes it's a sophisticated approach. but as soon as you see a drug crime many automatically solved so it increases their solve rate by 10% to 15%.

another one of course is money. we have the federal government literally bribing police departments around the country and giving them criminal justice grants but they have to be used for drug who hi business crimes. >> both trump and clinton want to keep the drug war going. in california there is something called proposition 64 which would legalize recreational marijuana. would that be the end of prohibition if your big state california passes it? the odds are predicted 87% california will. >> as well it should. it's time to regulate, control and tax marijuana. i think personally it will be such a finger in the eye to the federal government that if they lose california, i think it rest of the country would go along with it. then we basically go back to what our country was found on. a concept of federalism where

each state can decide how to best serve its people. another governor gary johnson attitude and he's absolutely right. john: you mention taxing it. gary johnson says some states have taxed it so much, it's still black market. >> colorado was a pioneer on this. i'm told legal marijuana in colorado costs twice what legal does. so the black market is still a problem. they are dealing with edibles which is a serious responsibilities problem. but we are feeling our way along. but anything is better than marijuana prohibition. and we haven't talked about the hem' industry that is a viable industrial product. john require's been band for no reason and it doesn't get people high.

but your candidate gary continues name a famous foreign leader and didn't know what aleppo was. people say his brain is fried from years of using marijuana. lyndsey graham says gary johnson set back the legalization of marijuana 30 years. >> it's always easy to second guess. i can tell you gary johnson tells the truth. if he don't know something, he will say. i can tell you he may not be certainly the best politician, maybe not always the best candidate. he will always be the best president of the united states. he has shown that in new mexico. worked well with people, re-elected as a republican in a democratic state. if you elect either of the other two we'll have more gridlock than you have ever seen before.

gary johnson is the guy. people have that as an option right now. on the ballots in all 50 states. look into him, he's the real deal. john: donald trump and hillary clinton are old. they are my age. but gary johnson is younger and healthier. he even climbed mount everest. >> it was a wonderful day.

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>> i'm also an athlete and adventurer. i have climbed the highest mountain on each of the 7 continents. john: when he said that i thought who cares. i wants to know how he's going to make our country free, not how many mountains he claimed. but maybe it does matter.

it shows johnson unlike hillary and most politicians has a life outside politics. unlike most politicians, gary johnson reamizes the earth doesn't revolve -- realizes the earth doesn't revolve around government. >> after i was the governor new mexico, id to get myself super fit. i was into being ultra fit. john: instead of make money by becoming a lobbyist. he did iron man races around the world. he once ran a hundred miles through the rocky mountains, hardly stopping. he did the whole 100 miles in 30 hours. later he went to climb mounts everest. >> my mother's mantra was reelects gary so he won't go climb mounts everest.

john: people die climbing everest. >> welcome to everest. welcome to the ice fall. some of them were so wide you had to lad early into them and leards back out it was incredibly dangerous it was crazy. reporter: the climb took months. >> 4:00 there the morning, oh, man. dave and i whipped out the new mexico flag. it was a wonderful, wonderful day. john: but being a successful entrepreneur was a main selling points in his first run for governor. >> i with my wife started a business as a one-man handy man operation.

and we have grown that into one of the biggest construction businesses in new mexico. i learned about sharing in the process, showing up on time, keeping your word. reporter: johnson was elected in a state where democrats outnumber republicans 2-1. so why isn't he doing were in the the presidential election? if people hate donald trump and hillary clinton, why don't they turn to johnson? 40% of americans have never heard of johnson. they don't even know that he's running. also i think he's not doing well because he doesn't answer questions crisply. he stumbles around. i hope that's the reason. not that people don't like libertarian ideas. how could you not like libertarian ideas once up hear about them. next we'll left a conservative

and leftist attack our ideas. >> in my lifetime i cannot think of one single instance where our supporting a regime change has resulted in things being better guess what guys, i switched to sprint. sprint? i'm hearing good things about the network. all the networks are great now. we're talking within a 1% difference in reliability of each other. and, sprint saves you 50% on most current national carrier rates. save money on your phone bill, invest it in your small business. wouldn't you love more customers? i would definitely love some new customers. sprint will help you add customers and cut your costs. switch your business to sprint and save 50% on most current verizon, at&t and t-mobile rates. don't let a 1% difference cost you twice as much. whoooo! for people with hearing loss, visit sprintrelay.com.

john: if you lean left you probably vote democrat. hillary opposed gay marriage for most her career. she supported the drug war and she doesn't want the feds to legalize weed. she has been a hawk. there was never a war she didn't want to fight. i want folks to support gary johnson. one group tells bernie sanders supporters. if you want to vote for john southern instead of hillary, you need to see this.

this ad shows a bunch of things gary johnson has said that most democrats don't like. >> should we take a long-term view when it comes to global warming? the sun is going to grow and encompass the earth, right? it was co-founded by nate lerks rner. eventually the sun will encompass the earth. he was just saying to obsess about global warming now makes no sense. >> i would disagree with that. i think global warming is an issue. we are seeing stronger hurricanes and record temperatures and we need to respond. john: because of man made global warming? >> we can measure the number of greenhouse gas and carbon dioxide in the atmosphere and they are the highest they have been in centuries.

john: we have had a quieter hurricane season. in your ad you criticize him for saying repeal obamacare. obamacare is a big success any would say so yes. john: insurance companies are dropping out. >> overall it acheefds its goal. more americans have health coverage than at any other points in our nation's history. it was to show the generation that elected barack obama that this candidate gary johnson does not side with him on this issue. john: let's turn to the minimum wage. hillary clinton wants a higher minimum wage. right now it's $7.25. she wants sit to be $12 or maybe $15. johnson said this about president obama's push to raise it to $15. >> i think he's missing the boat.

why doesn't he raise it to $75 an hour? of course he can't raise it to $75 because pricings would go way up. let the marketplace arrive at that. >> minimum wage, it's so easy to simplify it to that. but when you look at what's happening now, an average worker work at walmart has to go on welfare to support their family. that's not right. minimum wage is not the perfect solution but it's the best one we have right now. >> it doesn't have horrible, unintended consequences killing jobs? >> if you look at seattle they are doing extremely well and their minimum wage is very high. >> it's popular but it's dumb economics and seattle isn't doing very well. seattle doesn't do badly, but the wage doesn't help. we are not going to resolve that here.

hillary voted to invade iraq. she pushed for regime change in libya. approved drone strikes in pakistan. one to arm rebels in syria and enforce a no-fly zone in syria which might mean shooting down russian planes. >> this is where gary johnson and i do side. but the alternative of donald trump as president is where foreign policy gets scary. that's our main concern. we want to prevent donald trump from becoming president. if that means going after gary johnson, so be it. hillary clinton is so much better in every capacity to donald trump as an alternative. the economist, a conservative magazine named him one of the biggest threats to the world order and global economy. jaw * the democratic coalition's

anti-trump add lists a lot of things he supports. he doesn't want more gun control, he doesn't want to lower the cost of college. that's a smear. he would be happy to lower the cost of college, but your way screws taxpayers. takes from poor people and gives it to the affluent. >> it was hard to fit that in the small screen. but if you look at the issues in general, they don't line up. i can't fathom how a bernie sanders supporter can vote for someone like this. in my opinion you are not a real bernie sanders supporter if you vote for gary johnson. john: bernie wants bigger government and yawn on wisely doesn't. there are issues we agree on

about immigration, civil liberties, gay marriage, pro-choice, criminal justice reform, a lot. >> absolutely. he's a likeable guy and there is a reason so many millennials have been drawn to him. but when you look at his overall policy points they so strongly contradict bernie sanders's progressive campaign jaw * thank goodness. next i'll debate a conservative who doesn't like it when libertarians say something like this. >> in my lifetime i cannot think of one single instance where our supporting a regime change has resulted in things being better than not worse. bla

john: many people say youlibertt conservatives who wants to legalize weed and gay marriage. our most important policy continues is we don't believe flexing our military might is the best way to keep america

safe. >> i think our military interventions have made things worse. the fact that we put troops on the ground and drop bombs and drone flights kill thousands of innocent people making the situation much worse. john: that argument appalls conservatives. doesn't he have a point? >> to a point he has a point. my concern with johnson is that he doesn't seem to understand a lot of the issues. i think the biggest concern for me with johnson -- i was willing to vote for him until a week ago when he equated our actions in syria to the assad government's actions in syria. that to me shows an unnuanced understanding of foreign policy. john: he said that droning people, killing innocent people is similar.

he didn't say it was equal. >> to drone a hospital, for example is a mistake. what assad is doing in syria is not a mistake. he's intentionally killing. john: do you dispute there is blowback. by having our troops in all these countries, it doesn't make people want to murder us? >> i think all these mistakes are hurting us in the foreign policy realm. >> we station troops in our country. if north korean troops were stationed outside my door, i may want to murder them. >> we keep a presence in south korea because if god forbid the government decides to declare war. we can go in for force and protect our ally. >> why can't south korea protect itself? >> when north korea -- its

entire economy is militaristic. and it's based around starting a war with its southern neighbor. i don't think that on its own south korea can necessarily push that back. it's in our best interest as americans to pushback on north korea as well. first we'll bomb seoul and they will bomb l.a. john: people are also unhappy with gary johnson's stance on marijuana. do you admit to using marijuana? >> i'm one of 39 million people in that category. i haven't had a drink of alcohol in 39 years. i maintain legalizing marijuana will lead to less alcohol abuse. >> i think the drug wars is badly orchestrated.

but my issue with johnson isn't necessarily his policy positions. i seems to cheerlead for marijuana use in a way i find inappropriate. he was the ce to of a medical marijuana company. there is a lot of disagreements with scientists how effective medical marijuana is for almost any disease outside of a handful. >> so what. alcohol does much more harm and winston churchill said i can't live without champagne. >> but that was winston churchill a long time ago. i wouldn't feel comfortable with any candidate saying i drink through the night to get through the night. johnson did say until very recently he was smoking marijuana. and it doesn't seem clear he had a medical reason for that.

marijuana is illegal. we had a presidential candidate admitting to breaking the law. john: he enjoys altering his mind as millions of americans do. how, i do have an argument with johnson where i think we agree. should a christian baker have to bake a wedding cake for a gay wedding? part of freedom in our private business you should get to serve or not serve anyone you want. >> i think you should be able to discriminate for stink or you are not wearing shoes. but if we discriminate on the basis of religion that's doing harm to a big class of people. john: it could do harm to a big class of people. that's why the lunch counters that wouldn't serve blacks, they were forbidden to do so. >> i think of it from a personal standpoint. the bakers who were forced to bake a wedding cake for gay couples.

if i had -- i'm jewish, if i had an anti-semitic baker not want to bake me a cake, i would say okay i will take my businesses where and i will tell all of my friends that you don't like the jews and we'll see how it goes. john: rather than gary saying everybody must sell the cake. >> i don't understand forcing people to go against their conscience for no good reason. it's not like we have an absence of bakers in this country or florists. john: next, gary johnson finally gets angry about being smeared as a foreign policy idiot. >> angry people would be callin me out on the names or geographic locations, names of foreign leaders when the underlying policy has thousands of people dying and that is unacceptable.

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♪red roses too ♪i see them bloom ♪for me and you ♪and i think to myself ♪what a wonderful world ♪music ♪oh yeah >> it's awfully good that someone with the temperament of donald trump is not in charge law in our country. >> because you would be in jail.

john: donald trump was probably right about that. people have been jailed for doing what hillary did. she got away with it because she is a powerful politician. of course, trump is a deceitful bully who is disgusting on many fronts. >> when you are a celebrity they let you do it, you can do anything. grab them by the [bleep]. it's bad enough that they are liars and nasty. but even worse, they have bad ideas. she'll speed america into bankruptcy. he will start a trade war, who knows what he will do. if ever there were an election that's smart to vote for a third party it's this one. send a message to the big parties we don't like what you suffer. that's why i'll vote for gary johnson next month. not only does he have better ideas, but he is a better person

than trump and clinton. he vetoes 750 times as governor. he stands up for limited government. he's not the perfect candidate. he looked dumb when he was asked about form leaders and aleppo. but i'm angry that the media is so smug with their gotcha moments. >> i'm angry people would be calling me out on the names of geographic locations. names of foreign leaders, when the under lying policy has thousands of people dying, and that is unacceptable. john: the is unacceptable. for the media to near he doesn't understand foreign affairs is misleading. he's not a foreign affairs specialist but he understands our constant interventions make us less safe.

but johnson would tell them the first answer isn't always to bomb as hillary seems to want. our defense department would be used for defense. it's not just libertarians who think johnson would be the best candidate. a bunch of well-respected newspapers have endorsed the libertarian ticket. >> the paper out with its endorsement of gary johnson. shreveport detroit news endorsement called johnson the most responsible of any of the candidates. the richmond times says he's realistically presidential. man the dark times, johnson and weld are a bright light of hope and reason. they are. they are reasonable. but when i asked you on social media what you wanted me to say on this show.

one tweet was votes for johnson are votes for hillary. i reject the idea that a vote for johnson is a vote for hillary. he's pulling votes from hillary and trump. trump and hillary have come nowhere close to earning mine. a johnson vote could make a big difference in the future. they qualify for federal funding, maybe $20 million. principled libertarians would probably refuels the money, but even if they refuse, more votes this year means more votes. and more people who know that there are other better options. who is gary johnson? he's the one presidential candidate whose principles, experience and fights for individual freedom. he gets my vote. that's our show.

thanks for watching. >> no wonder he doesn't like talking about his plan. i love talking about mine. john: she sure does. she wants to put us bet deeper in debt. but trump loves to talk about his. >> build a great border call. john: then they pretend to have a plan to pay for their schemes. >> we are going to make these investments and pay for everyone of them.