checks and balances in the constitution might slow the process long enough for the people to wake up. that's our show. thanks for watching. >> you are the most dangerous person to run for president. >> she speaks of a very serious crime. she should not be allowed to run. john: they are both right, these are bad people but two weeks before the election we are stuck with these two candidates who lyme. >> i do not add a penny to the national debt. >> my strongest asset may be by far is my temperament. john: we have two candidates who are eager to drop bombs. >> i would just bomb those. john: two candidates filled with hate. >> she has tremendous paid in her heart. >> racist, sexist.

john: tonight we are lied to give the latest on the presidential race. there's still room room for debate. that's our show tonight. >> and now, john stossel. john: 18 days now until the election. hillary remains the big favorite to become president. the smart money has her ahead of trump 83% to 15.9%. that's huge. still, trumps 15.9 is still nothing. underdogs to win sometimes. there's time for debate celebs have a that debate with a libertarian or republican and a democrat. matt welch the libertarian reason magazine editor-at-large, the republican trump supporter and former lieutenant governor of new york betsy mccaughey, the doma clinton supporter political consultant jessica tarlov. congratulations jessica.

it looks like your candidate is going to win. >> we don't want to get ahead of ourselves but it's looking pretty good. john: are you happy, ecstatic? you like her? >> yes, i like her a great deal. john: today oprah winfrey said you don't have to like or preach is not coming to your house. >> that's the case of mike bloomberg made for her at the dnc which i thought was a particularly powerful argument. there's a standing amongst the population are yet to be at best for the candidate and like everything about the many don't. you have to pick a candidate that represents the most policies and visions for the country that you agree with and a lot of trump supporter's don't like everything about him as well. i happen to like a great deal about her but i understand what oprah was saying. i don't love the phraseology. john: she is coming to our house with her rulemakers. betsy, giving up? >> no, not at all. he is the underdog at this point but the fact is he as a very important economic policy to offer this nation and it's

indisputable that most americans want change. the economy is sputtering along at 1.2%. americans are making less now than they did in 2007. homeownership is at a 50 year low and an economic plan that will reboot the economy and offer more take-home pay for americans. john: i wish and i assume it's a libertarian you have given up some time. >> i gave up out of the womb, john. i'm heartened by the fact that more americans will vote for a non-democrats among republicans and rightly so in this election than we have seen in at least 20 years in pop -- possibly 24 years not just for gary johnson is my candidate but also jill stein and evan mcmullen could win utah. john: utah has gone republican by an average of 36 percentage points.

>> evan mcmullen is a republican which makes sense. >> you would be this third candidate to win the state since -- these are both candidates flawed, beyond flawed as individual human beings but also their policies. we have seen a level of exhaustion for the legs they been seen for a long time. >> the reason donald trump's so popular among his basis for the very same reason, republican voters and some democrats who are supporting him are disgusted with the political establishment which hasn't listened at all to their concerns particularly on the economy. >> donald trump's favorability is going down. zimon mid-60s now his negative rating. john: let's show clips from the last debate. the big news was trump saying he would necessarily accept the results of the election. >> i will tell you at the time. i will keep you in suspense.

john: so is this a big deal? >> i think it is even though the media also has gone a bit hysterical about this. we haven't seen a presidential candidate lead before the election that strongly with a not necessarily sure i'm going to accept the results of election. john mccain did mention in the third debate in 2008 with barack obama. he said i'm worried there might a voter fraud. there's a strong belief on both sides of the aisle that when the other one is winning it might be because of a rigged system or voter suppression but he's going further than we have seen in a long time. the suspense line was the key. he is having fun. he wants us all to tune in the day after so we will learn about what his line of businesses. john: it's remarkable in america that more than 200 years power changed hands without bloodshed. in 1960 the book between kennedy and nixon was close. voter fraud in chicago may have elected the candidate.

privately nixon said they stole it from us. publicly he said the challenge would cause lasting damage throughout the country. so betsy your guy isn't being as noble as nixon? >> i like the way you framed that but the fact is i believe he intended to say something quite reasonable but he said it in a rather blundering way and that is he would abide by the outcome unless there are red flags an invalid outcome. in other words voter fraud as you just pointed out. let me point out we have had voter fraud. john: there is always a little. >> one out of it ilion ballots cost in 2014. >> the "washington post" reported in 2014 that voting by illegal immigrants is substantial enough that it can turn the election in some

cities. when we see all of the evidence of crookedness and the irs suppressing conservative groups. john: i see why there is suspicion let's go further back into history just for contrast. when the country began there was no guarantee that there would yet peaceful transfer of power. >> our first prison was offered a third term but george washington turkey down. the king of england said washington does that he will be the greatest man in the world. he couldn't believe someone would voluntarily give up our and john adams was elected but after one term he lost to thomas jefferson. the time people said it was a miracle that a president would pass power to a rival simply because he got fewer votes. adams did skip jefferson's inauguration. 24 years later andrew jackson -- jackson won the popular vote in the most electoral votes but didn't get the majority he

needed to win. other candidates combined forces and congress made john quincy adams president ray jackson said the people i've been cheated but again there was no violence. the transition was peaceful. in other countries it is and always peaceful. in kenya 20 years ago the presidential election came down to a narrow vote, 46-44% of the loser is used to accept the results and he said there was fraud. 1000 people were killed in the violence that followed. 40,000 people fled their homes. john: etsy is it important trump said a peaceful transition. >> he is rather clumsy and how he says that in effect peaceful transition of power is one of the great assets of this country but if we truly respect the democratic process we also have to make sure we maintain it as a clean system and the pew foundation reported that one out

of every eight voter registrations is defective. it's a dead person or duplicate. the "washington post" reports based on the cooperative congressional election report that in fact in some cities there is substantial voting by illegal immigrants. historians are still debating whether the daily machines in chicago, the democratic machine stole the election for jfk. john: this is true. the other big story from the campaign was the audio trump talking about groping women. trump just loves that off. >> nobody has more respect for women than i do, nobody. nobody has more respect. john: i mean, come on. >> everybody has more respect for women than donald trump would have thought that was astounding and he told milan -- sold melania third river. he she sat down with for that interview with anderson cooper

and talked about he apologized to her in schieffer gave him and he said i didn't even apologize to her. a the man has no shame and he says i have such respect for women and you are a nasty woman within a few minutes. there are just some optics that presidential candidate cannot -. >> let me point out that being body is not disqualifying. being corrupt and a profiteer at the expense of the american public is disqualifying and despite the fact that we no donald trump's have a lot of vulgar things about women, the reports that come out for sample in "the new york times" are in illustration not of donald trump but an extremely biased unfair the low standard of journalism for example the story about jessica lynch. "the new york times" reads before they ran that story never

confirm that they would have -- that they were on the same airplane. john: is a great baseball newspaper endorsements. the count is 147 for hillary clinton, six for gary johnson and two for trump. it's negative seven for people who say -- so there is no question we have never seen such a polarization between the candidate and the press. >> he does not represent the establishment. john: the sleazy things that is talking about, all these articles piling on. >> what they tell you -- lauria all read the democratic --. >> the words came out of his own mouth.

>> i agree the words are folder. >> when women came orden said he did the same you would say oh no that's "the new york times." john: at one campaign rally clinton called trump supporter's deplorables. >> you could put half of trump supporters into what i call a basket of deplorables. the racist, sexist,, xenophobic, islamaphobia, you name it. john: she has tremendous hate in her heart and when she said deplorables she meant it. john: she has hate in her heart. >> so much hate. i disagree with you. i don't think she should have attached a number to the deplorables comment. i think saying half of this wrong. we do know that there are some dark forces backing david trump and we have david duke on your side something is going wrong. >> as far as i know donald trump

trump --. john: his responsibility is with people like him. >> he knows exactly who david duke is. how many muslims, latinos, women all minority groups have to come forward and say this man is all of the things that hillary benson said for you to accept the it? john: let me go to the next thing because coming up hillary clinton has solved their debt crisis. she is going to do what every democrat before her has done. >> we are going where the money is. we are going to ask the wealthy and corporations to pay their fair share. john: apparently you are not getting your fair share now that next we are going to talk about war. you like and since those trump is dangerous. >> a man you can -- with a tweet is not a man we can trust with nuclear weapons.

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when you're on hold, your business is on hold. that's why comcast business doesn't leave you there. when you call, a small business expert will answer you in about 30 seconds. no annoying hold music. just a real person, real fast. whenever you need them. great, that's what i said. so your business can get back to business. sounds like my ride's ready. don't get stuck on hold. reach an expert fast. comcast business. built for business. >> i would just bomb those. i would blow up every single inch. it would be nothing left. john: wow every single inch.

hillary speaks more quietly but she is just as eager to go to war and maybe even more eager. >> we also have to intensify our airstrikes against isis. john: she wants a no-fly zone in syria. she is more of a hawk than most republicans. >> i was involved in a number of efforts to take out al qaeda leadership when i was secretary of state including of course taking out bin laden and i think we need to go after baghdadi is wealth and make that one of our organizing principles. john: make it one of our organizing principles to take on foreign leaders we consider a threat and bought more? how was i worked out? >> sheet to this day describes the intervention and libya which is the primary architect of best quote smart power at its best unquote. not only issue liberal hawk, she's a liberal hawk who doesn't learn from our mistakes and her own hubris. that's the biggest warning sign

about her presidency more than anything else. she talks about no-fly zones as if they are magic tricks. john: they sound good. >> planes that have bombs and guns and other people that no one people that do want you to be there. i'm afraid she's going to blunder as president which is likely to be similar types of folly we have seen over the last 15 years. john: shoot down a russian plane. >> shoot down a resume. >> shootdown were some plain common data country, bomb more countries. john: by contrast the "washington post" calls non-trump -- child a noninterventionist. >> he certainly has made a strong case that foreign-policy should be based on what's best for american interests rather than expending american lives and treasure on nation-building across the globe but i'd like to follow-up on what you said because it's so important. the fact is that hillary clinton's record as secretary of state is disqualifying.

the failed attempt reset relations issue social with the rush of the ongoing carnage in syria. more than all of that the inspectors general who work for obama and report on how these various departments of the government are working have put out some three dozen report showing that hillary clinton left the state department in shambles. it wasn't just the people at the post in benghazi they were secure, from pakistan to ethiopia lacks properly trained guards, lacked emergency training. she left the cybersecurity protection that allowed messages to be pulled from the embassy. john: is trump correct when he says this about secretary of state clinton? >> when you look at her real record, take a look at syria,

take a look at the migration, take a look at libya, take a look at iraq. she gave us isis because her and obama created this huge vacuum. >> i do appreciate that she stopped calling her the founder of isis. this could have been an incredibly strong argument for donald trump if he made it effectively throughout the campaign. the problem is he has and then there's a reason the foreign-policy establishment made of liberals and conservatives and foreign-policy magazine u.s. and endorse anyone in half a century came out for her and michael chertoff etc. means donald trump's that dangerous. i think they would be more aligned with the republican on foreign policy. john: that's a big question when people vote for the president. that person watches nuclear weapons. whose judgment is best? >> i have much better judgment than her. i also have a much better temperament than she has. john: i am no hillary fan but it

takes golf for trump to brag about his temperament. >> donald trump can even handle the rough-and-tumble of a presidential campaign. and man you can bait with a tweet is not a man we can trust with nuclear weapons. john: betsy doesn't that bother you? >> no, we know that we can trust hillary clinton because on that night the diplomatic post in benghazi was attacked she did not respond. then she lied. john: the question is about trump. stop talking about her for a moment. he's got the button. >> i know that he azhar aziz surrounded himself with very good people. >> who? >> such as ambassador john

bolton. john: e1 said he he was taking advice from himself. >> he said all the generals basically except the 200 or backing him he said icepack endorsed him. i.c.e. doesn't endorse people. >> they did endorse. i saw the endorsement. john: the candidates are family forced to address america's biggest problem, our growing debt. >> i'm cutting taxes to grow the economy. it's going to grow at a record rate. it's going to totally help you. i love getting more for less.

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>> i pay for everything i'm proposing. i do not add a penny to the national debt. >> not a penny, wow. more than it trillion new

dollars and not add to our debt. how will she do that? >> we are going where the money is. we are going to ask the wealthy and corporations to pay their fair share. john: you are not paying your fair share betsy. >> when she said she's going to make corporations pay their fair share of such demagoguery because corporations pay the highest business taxes in the world. even after although loopholes and deductions, 29% and they are leaving the country and taking the jobs with them largely because of the tax burden. john: matt, for all candidates this fantasy that you can get it from the rich and the rich are certainly rich. it seems like you could pay for everything. >> it's important to underscore how this lyme is that she repeats. if you do not propose a balanced budget you are adding a penny or more than a penny to the debt. unless i lack a certain economic imagination you are adding a

penny to the debt. she is not proposing a balanced budget at all. john: and she will raise taxes to pay for it to the budget that she is proposed, it is not balance. >> of course it's not. when she ran against barack obama she said i don't want to raise taxes to fix social security because that's a bad thing for the common me. we have two parties right now but have abandoned all pretense is add realism about her 20 chilean national debt and entitlement. john: during an earlier debate donald trump rally sounded like he was concerned about our debt when he criticized hillary spending plan. >> you can't do what you are looking to do with 20 trillion in debt. the obama administration from the time they have come in is over 230 years worth of debt and he is double that in the course of almost eight years. john: trump is right about that. but trump is no better.

he said he now wants to spend more on infrastructure, and more in the military and he won't touch entitlement. >> i'm cutting taxes. we are going to grow viacom -- grow the economy. john: it's going to grow the economy. >> it's impossible. you have to cut spending. you have to get either health care spending for social security. >> the next president will spend more money of her year on debt service than they will on the military. >> at the debate this week he said he is going up to six. he is adding $5.3 trillion to the debt. john: when chris wallace asked hillary about creating jobs she lodged onto a nauseating list of pandering. >> i want to do more to help small business, to raise the

national minimum wage and make sure women get equal pay for the work we do make college debt-free. john: jessica you say it's just 200 million? >> million? >> it's been appraised by nonpartisan group. you are going to pay more money and if i get a raise i'm going to pay a lot more money. that's what's going to happen here and the world that she is envisioning is what bill clinton did on progressive steroids. it's an updated version but it's look at the appraisals, and she had's 200 million to the 5.3 trillion. >> the big difference is bill clinton has 3.5 to 4% growth and she's projecting 2% growth. john: who cares what they predict? >> the reason he is going to achieve growth is by cutting

taxes. >> i'm really wondering what donald trump is going to do. >> raising corporate taxes who mean substantially lower growth. john: which in relation slows growth even more so the debt overhang like we have right now the congressional budget office warns us about it every single quarter. we haven't seen that level like this. we are experimenting with the national economy and what happens when you get debt at a certain level, it drags down growth and that is what we are witnessing right now. john: next come alive tonight it turns out hillary has public physicians in private physicians. she admits that. we could have a whole debate on hillary versus hillary did in fact we will, after the break. >> i'm going to be even tougher on the wall street banks.

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john: two-thirds or more the public knows that hillary clinton is a liar pitch he can be trusted and now the two faces of hillary clinton are coming out. it's her wikileaks that she says one thing [bleep]. john: bull scene and cuts off the congressman when he says hillary is a liar. actually it was probably was the glitch but the transcripts to show hillary tells different stories to different people. when she talks privately with bankers. i have public physicians in private physicians. we needed debate between hillary and hillary select try something now on the campaign trail. she said this. >> we are going to tell companies that try to move jobs out of our country that if they

try to they will have to pay an exit tax in return every penny, every penny. john: punish those companies. i don't like open trade she says trade she says and yet wikileaks reveals that when she speaks for $700,000 to the bank she said she is a big supporter of free trade. in fact my dream is the hemispheric common market with open trade and open borders. let's asked the panel what they think of this. libertarian matt welch republicans betsy mccaughey and democrats jessica tarlov. she is to face. >> first of all everyone skips over the fact that she says my dream is. we all especially politicians who know how hard it is to get things done in washington have have have to have ideals and things that they would like and be realistic about them. hillary pence needs to consolidate the democratic party

after a tough challenge with bernie sanders. she had to go against tpp to win the nomination. when trump is riding high on this you talk about a man who ran on that muslim band, no more muslim band. john: you must like her a lot. >> i love her. >> can you assure the american people you didn't say anything in those speeches that would undermine your promise to be tough on wall street? >> absolutely. john: she just light preaches that all kinds of things in the speeches that wall street loves and progresses hey. for example she's critical of some bank regulation. she said banks are not doing what they need to do because they are scared of regulations. credit is not flowing the way it needs to to restart economic growth. she was right. she said when it comes to financial regulations that banks

need to help us figure it out and make sure we do it right. the people that know the industry better than anybody are the people who work in the industry. that's true but she would never say that at her rallies. at her rallies she says this. >> i'm going to be even tougher on the wall street banks. john: i guess all politicians do that. just lie to please once you are with. >> has francesco was saying she has faced the insurgency under left flank bernie sanders. what makes me really sad notches about hillary but the state of the democratic party what makes them excited is let's pretend to throw every bank or in jail. it's not the civil liberties. it's not ending the drug war. it's not a more humble in our foreign policy approach. sadly for me and a lot of libertarians this is the only thing we can possibly like about hillary is what she says to to

bankers and even there with a caveat. i don't want thanks to write the revelations either. i want there to be regulations and much less corporatism. john: should we believe she meant it when she's being paid to speak? >> we shouldn't believe a politician period and we shouldn't certainly believe hillary clinton. when the going gets tough she lies about her on record serially and without any sense of compunction. >> the most dangerous of these wikileaks demonstrate how she sold out american interest in order to benefit the clinton foundation. for examples signing off on a deal that allowed 25% of the nation's uranium supply to be in russian hands. that's very disturbing. john: next our panelists and my best and worst moments from the debate. this man creates software, used by this bank,

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john: we are back live art in about the election. the election. i asked our panel is to tell us their best and worst moments from the most recent debate. jessica said her best moment was

hillary speaking up or abortion rights. >> i will defend roe v. wade and i will defend women's rights to make their own health care decisions. john: this is that important to you? >> is very important to me and also important to a majority of women and men in america. when we were discussing before we came back wherever you fall on the debate here i thought it was a very thoughtful and impassioned defense of our right to choose and after the language donald trump used where he said rip the baby out before it's due that it was important for a major nominee to talk that way. john: important to democrats. >> important to more than democrats actually. it's important to libertarians. john: you don't want people to have a right to choose their school? >> on the slave charter schools do not take away from the strength of public schools i'm all for it.

john: democrats are anti-choice except about abortion. >> i don't agree again i think you are twisting this segment because you rock up my moment about unions. john: you are not allowed to pay people what they want choose your kid schools. i want to work on the choice word. it's not about pro-choice. >> it's a woman's right to control her body, how about that? john: your favorites favorites, i'm in your least favorite moment. >> just because i know was going to happen after this one trump said he wasn't going to accept the results of election and chris wallace tries to give him make you made there. can you hear me? he's like no, no and do i believe anyone except the results? john: chris gave him a chance. >> chris was buried there about

that because he knew would big deal was going to be and what a historic moment because none nominee had done that. he gave them another chance of a double down on it. i think you will foment a lot of unrest after the election. john: matt said that was his worst moment but he had another one from hillary. >> i won't add a penny to the debt. i do not add a penny to the national debt. john: she said it three times. she must mean it. >> barack obama in 2000 when he talked about i'm going to enact a net spending cut and he repeated it as often and of course we didn't have anything remotely like that. to say this when you are not proposing a balanced budget just doesn't make any sense in many about it so many things, she's going to add medicare eligibility for people 55 years old if they jump -- want to join in. where are we going to cut money so we can afford this stuff?

john: you can't just pay for this by taxing people more. maybe this is just good politics because when you talk cuts you don't get elected. >> the interesting thing is in private and one of the wiki week speeches she said she supports us and some bold plan for reducing the death which in washington hasn't it in the cat food plan because elderly people that's all they will be able to afford under simpson-bowles. >> from 1995 in obama's first term there were state of the union addresses bipartisan of both sides addressing long-term entitlement and that. it's a problem we need to fix fx it. barack obama stop talking about that i'm bernie sanders made sure he stopped talking about it. the democratic party that platform said it. a horrifying thing as the next question to donald trump showed a season fantasyland too. he thinks we can tax cut our way out of our entitlement problem.

john: your cat food metaphor is bad because food costs more than people food. >> my favorite was hillary clinton when the temperament question came up and the "access hollywood" tape richie pivoted from fair to several moments throughout the campaign that donald trump has behaved appallingly about people singling them out specifically the one which is the low paint paint -- pointed point of the campaign we singled out judge curio because his parents happen to be from mexico and he wouldn't be able to judge fairly in a case. you are assigning collective guilt to an entire bunch of people. this is the lowest in nasty as part of the donald trump selling proposition. >> that's why republicans lead up finally but the judge curio comment. john: betsy said her favorite comment was about partial-birth.

>> you can rip the baby out of the womb at the mother just prior to the birth of the baby. when you can say that that's okay and hillary can say that that's okay but it's not okay with me. >> most americans believe the partial-birth abortion is not okay. what bothered me was when mrs. clinton lied on the stage and said partial-birth abortions are done when a woman's health is in danger. in fact the -- institute has shown that partial birth late-term abortions are done for the same reasons all other abortions are done. john: your best moment was hillary and your worst moment was hillary's riff on gun control. here's part of that. >> dozens of toddlers injured themselves and even kill people with guns.

john: thank you betsy mccaughey, matt welch and jessica tarlov. my favorite moment was when the moderator chris wallace pushed them on the biggest problem. >> the biggest driver of our debt is entitlement which is 60% of all federal spending. the committee for federal responsible federal budget has looked at both of your plans and they say neither a few -- john: he went on to neither of them will pull their heads out of the sand. i'm glad the audience got to see that. my worst moment was the whole debate. when we come back my further rant about how this election is not a choice. it offers us no real choice. guess what guys, i switched to sprint. sprint? i'm hearing good things about the network. all the networks are great now. we're talking within a 1% difference in reliability of each other. and, sprint saves you 50%

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john: millions of americans could run for president and we end up with these two? she is a power-hungry liar who wants to smother us and rules. he is a selfish sexist bully who loves orange. what is their choice? >> their candidate comes close to representing my views and at this week's presidential debate there was drama, nasty exchanges. there was everything except a real choice.

and i agree, this election is a trick. it just provides the illusion of choice. on that debate stage, more issues than not trump and clinton were in near total agreement. both oppose free trade. >> nafta one of the worst deals ever. their jobs are being out of our economy. >> we will have that prosecutor for the first time in history. john: a trade prosecutor, great. the benefits are not controversial among economists. yes there are some losers but there are many more winners. yet you two are so eager for panther for votes that you will deny this? both trump and clinton believe i wanted to build walls and closing our borders. >> i voted for border security in the united states senate. john: she voted for a while too and her sis 300-mile shorter than the one trump wants. neither candidate wants to end our horrible drug war. their need and want to legalize

weed. neither candidate will say a word of warning about government spying on us. both candidates want to increase bombing in the middle east. >> i would bomb the [bleep] out of them. >> we would have to enter five -- intensifier airstrikes against isis. john: to a different tone but the same meaning. finally even though entitlements are bankrupting america of these two proposed a new one, paid time off from work if you have a child. >> a national system of paid family leave. >> a crucial safety net for working mothers. john: i guess i will have to add that to all the other entitlements. both hillary and trump say that they will not not cut up any of those. in fact hillary wants to spend more on social security and other things. all for new spending won't add a penny to the national debt. >> maybe she meant that literally. john: this week the alternative to trump and clinton libertarian

gary johnson had a nice reception on the jimmy kimmel show. kimmel's audience liked this point. >> let's stop involving ourselves as world policeman. a pasta. john: unfortunately camel's audience is tiny compared to the number of people who watched the presidential debate. when ross perot ran as a third-party candidate he was allowed in the debates. perot's polling was the same as johnson's but now republicans and democrats control the debate and they don't want outsiders they are. too bad, it would have been good to have heard from a candidate who offered us a choice as gillespie put it. a democrat and republican express the full range of diversity in a country that celebrates choice in everything but politics. >> we are stuck with these two. john: they are in agreement. they will spend more of your money and take more of your freedom.

all we can do is hope that the checks and balances in the constitution might slow the process long enough for the people to wake up. that's our show. thanks for watching. charles: here is lou dobbs. keep it right here on fox business. >> it has been a big week in presidential politics and today the trend continues. wikileaks agreeing with donald trump that the election is rigged. the whistle blowing website tweeted this. there is no u.s. election. there is power consolidation. rigged primary, rigged media, and rigged pied piper candidate drive consolidation. a poll find nearly after of