>> did great. you're putting through the pace. the trump/pence thank you tour continuing today. but are taxpayers about to thank them? stocks soaring since the election. and the president-elect's economic team promising significant tax cuts and vowing major reform within the first 90 days. some here are saying that's the key to getting jobs and our economy rolling. hi everybody. i'm dagen mcdowel in for brenda butner. this is "bulls and bears." joining us, jonas, john layfield, along with emily and jul julie, welcome everybody. >> where i work young americans

foundation, we saved the reagan ranch in 1998 in part because that's the site where reagan signed the greatest tax cut in history about 25% across the board, lifted a lot of people, created an era of prosperity in this kujt. now the trump administration says they're going to improve upon that. i'm looking forward to seeing what they're able to do with it. >> gary b., at this point, why not? we have lackluster job growth, wages actually falling in the most recent months and labor participation rate is still going down. so tax cuts yeah, right? >> absolutely, dagen. look, the reason you do tax cuts is as emily said, that historically whether it's been john f. kennedy or ronald reagan who have gone and even bill clinton ended up lowering taxes, it has gone to increase the productivity, the gdp, jobs and all that. but even beyond that if you do it the right way, it's simple

and it's fair. and it does the one most important thing, it takes money back out of the government, which we've talked about a million times, spends it totally inefficiently. in fact, if anyone -- julie for example can name a program that the government spends effectively and efficiently, i will applaud, but i don't think she can. >> the united states military, there you go. >> -- hold on, puts it back into the people's pockets who spend it wisely and spend the best. and when they screw up their spending, guess what, they end up paying for it, not everyone else when the government screws up. >> julie, why aren't tax cuts for individuals the shot in the arm this economy needs? >> because i'm old enough to remember the bush tax cuts and the exactly kind of shot in the arm they provided, we had net job loss across the board with george bush. >> because we had a 2008 housing crisis. come on, julie. >> before we had the housing crisis i don't remember him creating massive amounts of jobs in the process. take 2008 out of the equation. he still didn't create a ton of jobs. with reagan, he cut taxes and

had to go back and raise them time after time throughout the course of his presidency. let's not pretend he cut taxes and never had to go back and fix it. i love hearing republicans talking about tax cuts and balanced budgets, because for the last years i've been hearing about the national debt. guess what, guys, it's your turn. you have the car keys, balance that budget you've been talking about wanting to balance, have that national debt erased you've been talking about spiraling and provide tax cuts. i would love to see you do it. it's magic math i look forward to seeing. >> well, john, we've had the slowest recovery since 1949 by raising taxes under president obama. and since the election we've had a stock market that is off to the races, hitting record high after record high in anticipation of tax reform and tax cuts. >> yeah. and look at how much taxes have been raised. you had $2.1 trillion the treasury bringing in when president obama came into power and you have now about $3.3 trillion. you have $1.2 trillion that have been added in tax increases

since president obama first took office. and we're still running a $500 billion deficit. these goofs in d.c. can't balance the budget no matter what kind of revenue you have and we're at 19% of gdp according to tax revenue right now which is a historic high. so if you're going to do it, right now is the time to do it. that's not true about ronlds reagan. 1986 tax reform gdp went to 4.2% -- no, he cut taxes in 1986, the tax reform act. that's why they call it the tax reform act. >> you're telling me ronald reagan didn't go back after big tax cuts in early part of his presidency and raise taxes time after time after time? of course he did. >> 1986 was significantly -- julie, 1986 was second term. you can make up your own opinion, but you can't make up your own facts. >> really? never raised taxes? >> are you going to let me finish? we're screaming over each other saves time but doesn't help the viewers listen. 1964 president kennedy cut the personal tax rate by 18%.

that spurred economic growth. look what happened in ireland. ireland was one of the sluggish economies in europe and now it's the most vibrant because of tax reform. is this going to spur the economy? absolutely. >> jonas, tax reform -- a complicated tax code actually hurts people who can't afford a accountants, it hurts people who have to do it on their own. >> there's a difference between tax reform and lowering taxes. >> you can have both. >> we had 90% plus tax rates in this country. when you lower those, it has a huge benefit -- >> you're talking about when jfk took office. >> it has a diminishing return. obama didn't raise taxes on most of the middle class. he left the bush tax cuts in place. the bush tax cuts is number two i'm talking about of which was already diminishing return of economic growth because already average middle class family paying average single digit drk. >> he raised it on high earners --

>> hardly anyone is paying taxes. >> you're saying it's not good for the economy. >> i'm saying to get to the 80% tax rate is a ridiculous level of complexity and the reform to your original point which we desperately need because it's such an absurd path you need to get there, that can be fixed. but lowering that absolute number is not going to magically make the economy grow like it did in the '50s again or '60s just because we go from 5% to 9% in middle class, maybe it's wealthier -- debt is going to take off. >> gary b., one thing i wanted to bring up is treasury secretary nominee, steve mnuchin, said this past week he talked about no absolute tax cut for the wealthy, which is actually at odds with the house plan. it's at odds with trump's own plan. why not tax cuts for the wealthy? they hire people, they start businesses. why are people even slightly squeamish about that? or queasy about it? >> well, exactly. i mean the one thing i've always

looked into that, "the wall street journal" has also, looks like there will be tax cuts in there for that wealthy. but again, why play this discrimination card? why is the government's job to decide what is fair and not fair? that's why i keep coming back to either a flat tax or some kind of consumption tax. it shouldn't be up to the government to decide, well, you're rich, you don't get to keep as much of your money as the person that's less -- why is that the government's job? that's what i don't understand. when the government starts making decisions -- and that's beyond your point by the way, dagen chrks is an excellent point, the rich people out there they're not all the rockefellers living in mansions, these are people entrepreneurs, small business owners actually out there creating jobs. why shouldn't they get a tax cut? it's ludicrous to me. >> if i can jump in on that. i want to say we talk about the efficacy of various tax cuts, we also have to talk about the fairness. left loves to talk about fairness. if you work really hard and make

a lot of money, that's a great thing and we should be incentivizing it and we do need tax reform in this country. >> this is a way, john, for americans to know that hard work and wealth is not dirty. >> yeah. and gary b. makes an incredible point. look at our friend chuck comes on the show many times. chuck has a small business. he pays 39% tax because it's pass through income. you add city and state on top of that he'll tell you he pays 50% effective tax. that's absolutely unfair to small business. that's why trump's plan with mnuchin is going to take that tax and put it into the corporate tax side, which is the only fair way to do it. that will create jobs immediately. you take that 40% down to 20% because you put in the corporate tax side, that goes to jobs and capital investment immediately. and then you start dealing with the personal tax code, the lower 90%, that money goes straight into the economy. i'm not necessarily for going after the super rich that are to lower their tax rate because it's not politically palatable,

but if you lower 90%, that money goes straight into the economy. >> thank you, john. thanks everybody. guys and gals. cavuto on business about 20 minutes from now, neil, what have you got? >> president-elect trump sealing the deal to save jobs at carrier, but the left is bashing him for using his bully pulpit to come. do they remember when a certain democratic president did the exact same thing? plus, the video of fox business network faces off with a union guy, going viral, or should i say vile. is it proof big labor isn't looking out for the little guy? at the bottom of the hour. thank you, neil. but first, remember this? >> they set the price of oil. if they did it in this country it would be called an illegal deal. it would be illegal. they'd go to jail. >> so you're deliberating colluding -- >> well, of course, it's opec. >> and they did it again.

oil prices surging on opec's latest move. what it means for you at the pump and trump, next.

on energy, we will pursue energy independence and cancel the job killing restrictions on the production of shale energy, oil, natural gas and clean coal. >> did the president-elect's energy plan just get a boost from opec? the oil cartel reaching a deal to cut production for the first time in eight years, sending oil prices surging. and gas prices rising. john, you say it's time for us to start producing more energy here and stop depending on them there. and i'm going to you first in part because you're from texas. >> yeah, look what happens in west texas. you talk about not needing a minimum wage, you can't hire anybody for $15 an hour out in the middle of texas right now because of the shale oil bloom because jobs are so scarce out there. that's what energy creates.

look at the monterrey shale in california, that would wipe out california's debt by itself. we need a president-elect trump to go out and figure out with the epa what is safe. if fracking is safe, they need to go in there and frac that oil and take california out of debt. if it's not safe, you shouldn't be doing it anyway and this cartel in opec, every country is a liar. look at the production that they have compared to the quotas historically, they never adhere to these quotas. they're all petrol rates companies. they have to have that oil revenue to stay in power. they are going to bust these quotas completely. none of them can be trusted. >> emily, these new technology driven oil companies here in the united states with the boost in prices by opec that actually helps them, it makes more financial sense for them. so trump gets the benefit from this, right? >> absolutely. and not only that, the americans in this country who need jobs and need relief will benefit from this. i mean, look, we have resources from coast to coast in this country. we have resources off the coast

of this country. and it's about time we start using them. i think this serves as sort of this jolt reminder of what it's like not necessarily long term sustainable to rely so heavily on an external source of oil and i think this provides a big boost for trump's america first energy policy going into the administration. >> julie, the more energy independent we are, and we only net import now about 24% of what we consume in petroleum, it gives us power over countries that hate us. >> well, first and foremost, we're on our way to being energy independent already. we're fracking the heck out of natural gas, out of oil, it's not like we haven't been doing any of that and we have under obama tremendously. secondly, everybody knows oil is a global commodity. so even if we frac to death here in the united states, we drill, baby drill, off the coast and wherever else we want to drill, the reality is if saudi or any of these other opec countries decide they want to cut production, it effects us because oil is a global commodity. demand in places like india or china that seems to spiral,

that's going to spike the price of oil here at home. if you understand macro economics, that's basically how it works. there's not much we can do on our own to e if he can wait this. >> the more we produce, the more control we have over the price of oil, jonas. >> you can say about food but we're not food independent. first of all, we're at near 50-year production highs in the united states even with the decline of 140 -- it's not like we haven't produced more oil. >> but why not more than what we're doing now? why not more? >> because first of all if opec didn't do this, which is artificially raise the price, we came very close to bankrupting half that new exploration. there were huge defaults in the debt markets. if we went down $20 a barrel again, it would have been very ugly for this economy. we want the price over $50. that leads you to more production in texas. if opec drives the price down by pumping a lot, we're this bigger trouble than what they just did. now, the major countries should get together as an oil consumption cartel and pick how

much we're going to consume -- that's another story. >> given what opec did, gary, we now have slightly higher prices benefitting our producers. and if you get government out of the way, what does that do for our energy sector? >> well, i think it stimulates it. you know, i'm going to go back and argue, you know, we like to beat up on julie because she's on the left. but she really did make a lot of very good points there. >> wow. >> when the price of oil -- what? let's not live it up so far. we still have a couple more segments. but the point that she made is that oil's a global economy. it's not just -- trump is wrong there. opec doesn't dictate the price. the world dictates the price. as it goes up, i will disagree with one thing. you know, jonas said, oh, my gosh, if the price goes too low, it's going to really hurt our economy, no, the price of any commodity may go low might hurt the oil industry, but it helps airlines, helps trucking. the benefit, it's like lowering taxes, there's less you have to pay for that.

to john's point we have massive amounts. in west texas, in john's area, in the permian basin alone there's $20 billion geologists have estimated in reserve. we're only pumping about 2 million a day out of that. so we have the resources here. the economics -- >> we got -- >> doesn't matter what opec charges. if the economics is right, we should produce here. if the economics is not right, we should import. >> texas t, two words. thanks, guys. cashin in just over an hour from now. eric, what do you have coming up? >> donald trump speaking up after the ohio state terror attack saying the refugee responsible should not have been in our country. can his immigration plan for extreme vetting help prevent terror attacks in the future? the cashin in, see you at 11:30. >> thanks, eric. we'll be watching. but up first, a message to all hollywood celebrities, stop talking about politics. and get this, that's coming from a superstar. generosity is its own form of power.

you can handle being a mom for half an hour. i'm in all the way. is that understood? i don't know what she's up to, but it's not good. can't the world be my noodles and butter? get your mind out of the gutter. mornings are for coffee and contemplation. that was a really profound observation. you got a mean case of the detox blues. don't start a war you know you're going to lose. finally you can now find all of netflix in the same place as all your other entertainment. on xfinity x1. we're opening more xfinity stores closer to you.

visit us today and learn how to get the most out of all your services, like xfinity x1. we'll put the power in your hands, so you can see how x1 is changing the way you experience tv with features like voice remote, making it easier and more fun than ever. there's more in store than you imagine. visit an xfinity store today and see for yourself. xfinity, the future of awesome. mark wahlberg has some advice for his peers, just stop. the superstar thinks celebrities shouldn't talk politics because they're living in fantasy land and can't relate to working class americans. saying in part, quote, a lot of hollywood is living in a bubble. they're pretty out of touch with the common person, the everyday guy out there providing for their family. gary b., you say he's right. >> most denitely. i don't think they're living in

fantasy land as much as living in hypocrisy land. i mean, dagen, look at hollywood, it's one of the most competitive, capitalistic, greedy, discriminatory industries. i mean, women obviously make less than men there. you all look at all the salaries per movies there. everything is based on appearance and looks. my gosh, they should -- wahlberg and his company should be railing against hollywood. so i think he's right in there. they shouldn't say anything about politics because they don't know anything. >> julie. >> first of all, i really don't care what any celebrity says about politics one way or the other, but let's be frank, nobody on this panel is living the average life of the average person in the midwest either. may have come from there or those circumstances, i didn't lose my first amendment rights to talk about that. i don't think mark wahlberg or any other celebrity has, frankly i don't care what they have to say. >> i talk to my momma and daddy every night and i don't go to galas, so i feel connected to the real world. what do you think? >> i'm there with you. i'm conservative. i like when clint eastwood

speaks up or someone like mark wahlberg, but i'm okay with celebrities speak about politics and that is only okay if they acknowledge. i have to disagree, they are living in hypocrisy land but also living in fantasy land. life resembles nothing like the average american. >> i can't think of a better time to talk, president-elect is a celebrity who vented his political opinions and now he's going to the white house. might as well have george clooney as -- >> i said i'm fine with celebrities talking about it as long as they acknowledge it. >> well, john -- >> sean penn 2020. >> john, you are the biggest celebrity on this panel, so what do you say, my dear? >> i'm with wahlberg. look, these hollywood bozos have a guy designed to bring them a cup of coffee every day, how can they possibly be in touch? they're not. if it has to do with civil rights like jim brown spoke about in the '60s, just shut up. all it does is kill your brand

and no one wants to hear it. >> followed around by a bunch of sycophants telling them they're fabulous. that's not connected to the real world. thanks everybody. and a special thanks to emily and julie for joining us. great to see you ladies as always. >> you too. coming up, holiday shopping season just getting started. our guys have the picks to make you money while you shop.

(sfx: glass breaking) (sfx:footsteps running) ♪music nice going spencer. i can't believe we broke old man hennessey's window

correction dude, you broke. i just threw the ball. this is really bad. what are we going to do? we? go to the door and ask for the ball back. are you serious? it's my ball myrtlebeck! i'm so dead. i'd run away. yeah, to uruguay. kiss your life goodbye. sorry. let's go. bye. see ya. remember me in your will. some friends you are! ♪music ♪oh. keep smiling, keep shining♪ hi ♪knowing you can always count on me, for sure♪ tell him it was an accident and we can fix the window. ♪whoa, that's what friends are for.♪ come on. i'll come with you. you go first.

predictions. gary b., go. >> the inventor of the big mac may have passed on, but mcdonald's continues to thrive. he would have loved it. it's up 20% in the next year. >> john, your prediction. >> a lower corporate tax rate benefits companies with a majority revenue comes from the united states. under armour is one of those companies, i own it, i think it's up 20% in the year. >> jonas. >> research explains why i wear glasses as a kid i was playing too much donkey kong and should have been at the beach checking out the ladies because that

makes you not need glasses. raban sunglasses. >> john, do you like it? >> i think glasses make jonas disappear. >> neil is now. companies are not going to leave the united states anymore without consequences. >> well, not bad for a guy who hasn't even started his job saving about 1,100 of them over at carrier. president-elect donald trump making good on a promise to make life difficult if the air conditioner maker didn't relent on a plan to send those jobs to mexico. but now he has helped sa eed se deal, some democrats are saying what is the deal? hi everyone. i'm neil cavuto, charles payne, kennedy, along with lanor, ben