a wall from here to the trump tower. >> and the other regulars? thank you for joining us today. i think we've probably got more regulars in the cabinet did neil cavuto does. but it's yours. neil: i was listening to what you were saying about "time" magazine cover story and hillary clinton is treated like moses or the 10 commandment. that's not an actual picture. you dr. dot? >> just a little. neil: is there any truth to the fact you covered moses 40 years? you started with the cabinet. >> i've taken up 30 seconds of your precious time. neil: i'll never get that back. a lot going on here.

united steelworkers local president chuck jones when he was taking issue with donald trump over the number of jobs that mr. trump saved. you remember this? 1100 that donald trump, you say it's more like 800 total? >> at 800. that's what the figure is. donald trump and governor pence are taking credit for 350 jobs that are research development jobs that were staying here from the start. so would feel a lot better if our tax dollars were going to try to save the company maybe that was struggling. neil: back i does a better professional wrestler voice than i do. here's the thing. he was complaining about jobs not been as many as donald trump. 700, 800, more jobs have donald trump not intervened. nevertheless, yet does anyone he spoke to the "washington post"

and added trump had lied is asked off. and then donald trump treated back chuck jones president of united steelworkers have done terrible job representing workers. no wonder companies leave the country. united steelworkers 99 as any good they would've kept those jobs in indiana, spend more time, but i'm talking reduced dues. tom sullivan, radio show host extraordinaire. indiana state afl-cio president brett. it's a back-and-forth. to me its job saved our job saved regardless how many. you say what? >> go ahead, sorry. >> i was just going to say the jobs that were saved and we commend president-elect trump for saving the jobs that he did save. but at the same time, you know,

there is false about the end got many workers hopes up high that their jobs would be saved as well and he stood in the fact rate here in minneapolis and basically sat there and lie to the workers. neil: how did he lie? were they 700 job saved. >> he said it was saving a lens that hundred jobs. >> those are 700 plus jobs that would've been saved at 700 plus families that would be looking at a pretty merry christmas had he not intervened. >> absolutely. we commend him for the job seeded eighth. for a year and a half, president-elect trump has been campaigning on saving jobs from going either abroad or overseas and said under his watch that there will be no more off shoring of jobs, that we will keep jobs in the united states. if he has a 35% tariffs on

products coming in, that's what he will do. you will not happen on his watch. we want to load into his word. neil: you nailed this. he still president-elect. tom sullivan, that amount is sent in some folks miss in this whole thing. would you make the weather is 700, 800, 1100? >> i'm just an old encounter. when you look at it, the average wage for this job saved, it 800 jobs a number i got it $30 an hour is a $50 million annual payroll that stays in indiana, stays in the united states and the state of indiana and the federal government take a third of that, about 15 million. net, not to the bottom line is $35 million the windup or take home pay to the community. and so, it is kind of the whole way that chuck jones i guess

negotiate if he wants to hold on, not part of the loan. neil: i think what happened if someone must've gotten back -- i don't know in your case. i suspect you're an honorable man as they do chuck jones. when they appear on a show like mine and all the sudden their buddies are back in the shop live in a bath of the national levels to you can't be saying something complimentary about a republican just elected president of the united states. you have to dia that back. i hope i'm wrong on that. it appeared mr. jones' case after appearing on the show attacks or the "washington post" follow-up interviews finish one gets progressively nastier. someone got to him and ted are you nuts? you're complimenting a republican. go ahead i want to hear from sarah and i will get back to you.

>> based in the carrier deal is anything but a win for donald trump. no secret labor unions were not behind donald trump in the primary and general election. we very much aligned with the left and have been a long time. would donald trump is doing at the carrier deal is twofold making it economically comfortable even for is the power of the presidency. that is making it socially and culturally uncomfortable for countries to leave the country. if you're an executive who wants to slash american jobs, not only will i threaten you with a 35% tariff on your good, but i will make his or you face the wrath of millions of people who are going to know. >> uses the bully pulpit is technically not as painfully finite, okay? >> signaling a fundamental shift whose treated this as an inevitability, not a challenge. >> let me give you some days.

there's a difference between leadership and the rank-and-file more rank-and-file union workers particularly in the battleground state like pennsylvania, michigan voted for donald trump enjoys since ronald reagan. i am wondering whether that is showing something here for the union heads are one way and the rank-and-file is another. >> absolutely. i totally admit a lot of our rank-and-file members to support donald trump and they still support donald trump. myself, you know, i was brought up in a family to be able to respect our leaders and that is one thing that i will do. once he becomes president january 20 at, you know, i will respect their leaders that i will pray for leaders because that's what i was brought up to

do. neil: it sounds like it killing you here. >> now, it's not killing me at all. i'm a man of faith and i have a lot of respect for the position whether it be the president of the united states come the united states congress for my local union president chuck jones who has been cyberbullied, by the way. i do pray for his leadership to make sure. i hope that president-elect trump does when he does take office when he does do what he says and that's keep jobs in america. >> i watch her final thought on that. >> this is a business deal and when all is said and done once we did a few years into this trump administration, there's a lot of democrats and republicans doubles scratch their heads because he's not doing a republican deal. he's not doing ideology. he's doing a business deal and it's goo for the country. it's good for those workers.

it is a net net gain and that is that a lot of people have to watch and be careful of criticism because he's going to do things they like. neil: we will watch closely. i want to thank you. as we keep discussing here, he is calling into question some very big ones. even in the media world, at&t time warner, he's not the only one questioning them. republican senator mike leigh. senator, during the campaign, donald trump was saying it was concentration of too much here and in the case of cnn may be tilted toward blended coverage of that. where do you stand on this? >> i think there's absolutely no question as to which way cnn was tilting. not just during the campaign, but also since the campaign and whether this merger will be carried out and approved by

antitrust officials at the department of justice is a different question. we held a hearing yesterday on the antitrust subcommittee which i chair here in the senate and we heard a lot of testimony on that. this is a complex deal. some of the concerns we expressed and that were expressed by others in the committee involve the concentration of market power and whether or not people will have access to this market, whether it will leave any room, for example. news upstarts are competitor to cnn. whether they have any opportunity to get onto the network. if this is something that will be worked out in time. i think it's probably wise. you are one who latched onto comcast promised to at the time nbc universal's would have a level playing field for all of their new and ancillary players. it looks like comcast hasn't

kept the end of the bargain. others will disagree. you want more than their word. >> we will continue to have a robust this done up competition in place so that people can enter into the market and so not too much of an incentive and to much of an ability of any one company to get taped a is the people will see and hear. that said, this is a vertical merger. vertical merger are typically raise fewer red flags to antitrust regulators than horizontal mergers do. here we ae talking about bringing together several companies in the supply chain to get media to the consumer. these are some of the issues that will have to be ironed out by antitrust officials at the does. neil: you know, any channel they darn well please. my big senator is they will channel 1 million. do you have any control over

whether private enterprise would do when it comes to its programming lineup on established high-tech systems? >> generally speaking, no. those who are reviewing -- neil: can you put into law but they don't put fox business on 1 million. >> yes, we will pass a special bill for that. neil: -- >> it has a nice ring to it. and i trust officials can put in place certain conditions making sure that there will be competition in that area. neil: right, i should mention that because that literally came up with the comcast thing because bloomberg tv had felt it would be shifted aside our peptide are in the lineup in those issues have not been resolved. while i have you here, your name keeps coming up for lots of things including supreme court

justice to replace justice scalia who passed away earlier this year. what do you think of that? >> first of all, i'm flattered and honored that my name would be on the list. it is very encouraging to see that president-elect trump has a list and am encouraged by the names i see on the list. neil: you're on that list. the mac as is my brother, tom who serves on utah's superb art is also one there. my brother and i can argue back and forth about which one would look better in that position. he argued wears a black robe, so he has that bragging point. neil: he might have that edge. senator, thank you very much. senator mike leigh, republican from the fine state of utah. sap takeover cabinet department department -- says who? the guy wants to take over epa and who donald trump has

entrusted. if it seen to what the epa is doing? and now, environmentalists are going not. after this. generosity is its own form of power.

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neil: another busy day at the trump tower. james is meeting with donald trump. we are also at old farmer ford ceo alan mullally will be there. increasingly a good day to be the next labor secretary. what's interesting about that, we are told -- it's a big old hamburger i recognize that.

this is confirmed in a number of sources here that donald trump's things about eight to 10 hours a day doing this to them is well briefed on the subject. when they finally get in, he knows all about them, he peppers them with question and he can size them up sometimes in minutes. if he likes what he's hearing, the quality we are told the "washington post" and "new york times" he likes, too. that person advances to the next round. so conversely, to read seems to be if he is extending the search from expanding as he has for secretary of state, maybe that is a sign he's not been impressed with the people with whom he is interviewed to this point. it does make sense, but it tells you a little bit about the way he works. certainly the trump organization and the president-elect of the united states picking a scab that. some of those pics like oklahoma attorney general was suing the epa and has done so in number of

times an overreach on the part of the obama administration for both the regulation. killing the energy industry, killing his statement killing jobs and energy expert and former obama epa staffer, dan cannon. dan, let me go to on this page. is it a given that someone who heads the epa must kind of mirror the views of prior epa heads? >> i don't think people expect the administration mirror the views of other head. how you tackle challenges to protect the environment clean air and clean water. i think it's a prerequisite to make sure you have someone who believes we need clean air and clean water. neil: how do you know he doesn't? how do you know he's not find a balance? >> 's actions have been for the valley of the oil and gas industry over and over again he's written letters on official allies that he's been aligned with.

his motivation has been to attack the industry despite the fact half of the counties in oklahoma are above elevated risk for cancer based on the epa's standards he's turned a blind eye consistently. this would have been under scuppered administration, he would've never gone there. but we would see -- neil: you don't really know that. one of the other things that comes up is what he tilts too far the other way? i can understand his concern for johnson and state like oklahoma, but would he go too far the other way and ignore all of this stuff where can you balance or do you think he's the guy to balance environmental needs of energy needs? >> i think it's perfect for this position. you can have economic growth and environmental protection and largely be driven by state and local government and that is very epa fundamentally needs to

shift. the obama administration gave the agency a long leash and attorney general pruitt wants to shorten it for good reason. this is an agency that has run amok with massive bureaucratic overreach that drive costs higher, threaten private property and do little if any environmental good. there is good reason for fundamental reform and shifting responsibility down to the status of a bit ago. >> one thing i've noticed in with always gone extremes depending on the administration. many argue that traditional fossil fuel industry and whatever you want to describe it as all environment, no iota of concern for jobs and now it's damaging weather that extends to coal, oil, anything like that. do you think the epa under this administration did that, went too far and too many regulations that could kill industries, that did kill jobs and were damaging

to the economy? >> i'll tell you at this epa did. mr. under lisa jackson, if true under mccarthy. not the most recent one and not this one unfortunately. this epa that a science in the law. the law passed by congress. science is dictated by a peer review and extensive rigorous testing to apply standards as passionately about what is best for healthy environments. i do agree it's a false choice you can't have both. you can have a robust economy. >> my concern was energy industry. crankiness to cut back on that. some of the areas near and dear for the jobs in oklahoma to your point. do you think you can go far and regulate too much for that goal? >> well, there's thousands of solar units manufactured every single day in this country.

85% growth this year over last year which is the highest the never before. you have a choice to make. do i protect and help the environment? neil: it's your standard the seller is better. >> if you grow the economy and protect the environment. neil: you obviously expressed a favorite there towards a clean industry which is not the fossil fuel industry, which is not oil, which is not coal, which is not any of that. with this big before the way? >> it would be more of a way that allows the states to regulate the energy industry for good reason. the large environmental problems in our country today aren't really federal problems anymore. but the epa is doing things like the clean power plant is promulgating regulations that are decimating the coal industry by the epa's own accord won't do

anything to mitigate global warming anyway. you have huge cost benefit analysis would the costs are extreme and benefits are minimal. neil: richard nixon even came up with that. thank you votes very, very much. in the meantime, keeping an eye on small stocks. if you listen to charles payne say around election night, you would have known is a good area to park for money. he was right in the aggregate. you should see how right he was when it came to particular stocks. charles is next.

entire days. now a lot of you are saying how did this happen? well, if you were watching on election on fbn:am and i'm sure

you weren't, because if you were out the money, i don't know what the heck you're doing. you should have listened to my buddy charles payne. he was putting pen to paper and he even came up with individual names. like this one. go back in time. stock was down pretty good like an 18 thf dollar stock hit 1690. it's been going up ever since. this is a to be that should do extraordinarily well if donald trump wins. [laughter] >> here he is. to your credit. you obviously don't follow the

hurried here. what did you see then and now? >> charles: the market wasn't surprised. wall street was surprised. the folks who never tubinged -- talked to the vendor across the streets. copper surging weeks into the election. i talked about being u.s. prime example. caterpillar. something was going on. neil: names that would obviously respond to a pickup in economic activity which you sense, i might stress in a middle of a freefall the market would readjust itself. >> right. neil: did it get ahead of itself? charles: obviously at some point it will.

my biggest fear, fear of missing out. people are saying, golly, i'm going to miss it. of course, there are going to be down days. if you believe donald trump is changing the trajectory of america, not right now but the next two, three, four years, you should be invested. you voted to make america great again and you should make portfolio great again as well. neil: is dow is up 13 points. over 2,000 points since the beginning of the year. russell up -- charles: 20%. neil: another thing you were up. a lot of them say i will wait for a pullback. charles: if you're afraid to buy when the market has gone up, are you going to have the nerve to buy when the market is going

down? of course not.i also believe the that ewe go for it. there's going to be million of donald trump voters who won't ride donald trump's coat tails. there's others that give hints that it's more than spirit. this week orders for class a commercial trucks up year over year. neil: is that right? charles: niel, we haven't seen that. they see it. they are anticipating this. charles: that's what triggered the market. that's when big money came pouring into the market. another thing this week -- neil: some program thing. charles: all based on a notion that goes back that industrial are running, transportation is

running, corroborated and it's real, not fake or phoney. something that you need an era of machines and program trading. one other thing, investors business had sentiment. ten-year high in november from november to the month before. ten-year high. neil: that can be a counter thing, though? charles: i don't think so. this was six months after 9/11. america galvanize in unity and coming together. neil: got you, great stuff as always. [laughter] neil: i can read a prompter. there you go. more after this nnecting our bras so we can share our amazing trading knowledge. that's a great idea, but why don't you just go to thinkorswim's chat rooms

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neil: some interesting news. bloomberg terminals are experiencing some network difficulties. bloomberg has not confirmed that with us. they are telling traders that they are aware of the issues, how they might or might not be affecting trading. all we know it's out there and mooning zoom of the things that we are following up today, on the day the dow is sprinting ahead to new records. now, remember it was yesterday,

almost sacramento same time that stocks were starting a significant rally. it is happening yet again and remember, you don't have to have a big leap here. about 2% to get to 20,000. little bit more than that. so we are following it and it is interesting and, of course, with every climb there's a small jump percentage and that, of course, is where we are now about 350, 8 points away from all-time high. democrats will always look at this in a political vain, republicans will always look at in the political vain. pick your political -- we are racinghead under the environment where you have the economy going just right, optimism about corporate earnings and what a president-elect trump might bring just right and adding all up and away we go. of course, that could all be reversed like in a minute. but right now that's not

happening. all right, one of the things that is happening is the cascade of several stars who want to meet with donald trump, even democrats who have seen names like al gore, mayor de blasio, democratic senator, leonardo dicaprio, mayor rahm emmanuel. al gore was the big one. i see the appointment for epa, well, that didn't go to al gore's liking, probably but what do you make about this? >> i wouldn't read too much in the meetings, talk is cheap. that in a buck will get you a cup of coffee. two days later he did appoint -- neil: we are doing a whole segment on here. i'm kidding. to make the point that don't

read -- if you meet with someone on group on the other side, doesn't mean you're getting the other side, right? >> no, i mean, i think if we are looking -- if we are considering this sweeping favorable move you would have to set your bar from the president elect incredibly low. he's talking to people who have different views on some issues from the ones that he purports to hold. i don't think this is terribly unusual because donald trump has donated in prior chapters of his political career thousands of dollars to democrats. neil: yeah. >> and ao i don't think his support during the campaign was based on his intricate policy details and in the way leaves wiggle room to go into different directions. that might prove positive for democrats. neil: there's great value in meeting with the opposition or

those not admirers of your political point of view. i think it worked for bill clinton after he was elected in 1992 and later on economics robert ruben urged him to meet with a lot of market guys too show and prove that he would be a very different type of democrat, one who would try to keep an eye on spending and you know the history there. so they withheld their fire in the early days. they were not going after him as they might normally and i'm wondering if donald trump is doing the reverse of that. these guys many of whom are probably not big fans of his, they might hold their fire just courtesy of meeting. >> donald trump is clearly good at spinning certain story and selling a certain impression and i must say there's a sense of hope that he would prove to be not quite on climate change as people feared. but at the same time once he -- once pruitt, that went out of the ndow.

actions speak louder than word. neil: wild card is showing al gore. do you think he was there not to tabout environment issues oar global warming or climate change, whatever they're cling it now, to be considered for a cabinet post? maybe a big one and we are just not paying attention, what do you think? >> that would be shocking. i know democrat why has talked about the most per -- for a cabinet post. neil: if you don't want to follow, that's your business. seriously, very good to have you. >> pleasure to be on. neil: editor. we are in record territory again. you know that. russell 2000 in and out of territory. s&p 500, you know all of that. we are getting closer, closer to a big level and keep in mind

this is an average that for 1966 to 1982, a 16-year span had a tough time breaking 1,000. a 16 year period. until 1982 to a thousand. look at this. we are almost 20 times that now. is that a big deal or what?

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>> this is your fox business brief. more older americans are unable to pay medical bills and three in four say one of the top tier in retirements is out of control medical costs. in fact, study by harris polling a third of older americans couldn't pay a 500-dollar medical bill. 61% say they will use and now use medicare as their main source to pay healthcare costs. more than half or 53% said that if a medical expense was more than a thousand dollars, they couldn't pay it. a columbus, ohio based insurance to providers. real healthcare costs in retirement are sparkly higher. the average 65-year-old will need 3500 to cover

>> restaurants have had a more difficult time lowering prices while commodity prices are gone, labor costs are way up due to different initiatives. transaction is down and the reason transactions are down, because of minimum wage, because of minimum hours, because of family leave and obamacare, if

we are going to increase the minimum wage at all, we have to keep a lower minimum wage for entry-level employees or shut out of the workforce. neil: all right, andy, carlos, jr. hamburger chain and it is that chain in his ownership and ads for that chain that might coom back too bite him as consideration for getting approved the next labor secretary of these united states. what a lot of folks are say if we can show this here, before the video of mr. trump about sexual assault, this might rekindle all of this stuff. sounds ridiculous to me. bottom line is what are they going to do, play those in a hearing, whatever. i don't know. jobs created network ceo on that

and whether the ads notwithstanding or because of the ads should be considered for this job. i knew this one was coming alfredo only because i was aware of the controversies of the ads when they came out. obviously, we have seen very models, let's put it that way, who have been advertising for carlos, jr. burgers and now this comes in a confirmation hearing or hurt him confirmation wise? >> niel, thank you for having me. when we look at andy's history overall and his record at carlos, jr. as the head of carl's jr., we need to see what he actually did in turning around the business. as a former marketing executor myself one of the things is find out what the market demands are and grow his business. that's exactly what he did and

he knows all too well. andy was the chief executive officer carl hardies. neil: i want to pass along a quote from "the new york times" story where they say the labor secretary pick may rekindle trump's women problem that women's group have been complaining about rakee ads, some which we are showing you. but they will have a platform like never before. what do you make of that? >> again, we have to look at the record of andy and what he's actually done across the firm and what he's done for a small business owners. when we look at the overall impact that we have across this country, we have about almost 30 million small business owners that employee people. a third of population, over a hundred million people that are dependent on the success of small business and what andy understands is how to get people

back to work. neil: i think what they see use this as a smoke screen to go after its use on the minimum wage, he was very much against and the healthcare related employment issues,ic they're using this as a means to attack him on that without directly attacking him on that. >> niel, i think that maybe unfortunate and that maybe a tactic that they'll use, but the reason why is they don't have a turn-around story, a way to really react to the fact that he's a turn-around at carl hardies. it's about time we actually put a job creator in the department of labor as well. neil: all right. this one i could have just scripted out. i saw this one coming. alfredo ortiz thanks very much. >> thank you, niel. neil: we should also stress that

one of the things that pusder said about carlos, jr., 70% of the customers are young men which apparently respond to advg

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neil: real quickly. bloomberg is confirming that it has issues with terminals. how it's affecting trading or volume, we wouldn't know where the dow is raising new highs but it could affect. we will check the numbers by day's end. we will have a good idea. meanwhile report that is the president elect might not completely divorce himself from businesses after all. you say at a minimum that would look bad and it could be very bad, explain. >> well, that is a problem.

but i do want to say the good news. i'm thrill today see a lot of good business people come to this administration and have a policy that's gutted by facts an not fake news which could be helpful for winning elections but we need good business people making decisions for our government and that's a good thing, but it's critically important for everyone in the executive branch including the president of the united states not to have conflicts of interest and financial conflict of interest and it's important for the president to set the right example. neil: but the president doesn't have those same conflict issues. i found that -- >> he has conflicts but that particular law does not apply to him. criminal conflict of interest. it does apply to the president and that prohibits him from receiving payments from foreign governments and corporations

controlled by foreign governments. there's a bunch of problems, the hotels, loans, bank of china, controlled by the chinese government. neil: what do you think he should do, get out of those businesses, i don't know if that would work? >> the first -- the best thing to do would be to sell off his business interest for a public offering, securities or giving some of the properties to his children. neil: he won't do that. >> but if he's not going to do that, we are going to have to go through piece by piece and solve the problems. get all the foreiggovernme money out of any businesses that he owns so we don't have a constitutional crisis over that. get his name off of buildings in places in the world where there could be a threat to those buildings from terrorists or others because the president of the united states, his name up on a building. we don't have the obama tower downtown or down town paris. neil: all right.

>> who is going to protect those buildings? i don't want to see a tragedy there. we are going to have deal with a range of problems if he keeps the businesses. i hope that we can work through this. neil: we should see. i don't mean to jump on you but we are going to a break right now

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neil: all right, a month ago she was surprisingly and stunningly elected president of the united states and the markets have not looked back since beard continuing to search all the major averages in and out of record levels, even of thought you might be a tad compromise. i doubt not that far, about 2% away from 20,000. you know the drill. they are looking forward to any business from the trump administration could bring to them including tax cuts, regulation, infrastructure spending to boost economic activity here.

obviously details are important how they go about that and what donald trump does in outlining all of that in his first start up is a hundred days. their own pics.net. dr barton and lindsay. jonas, what do you think about how this market is going and whether this is just continuing what was already in place or hasn't picked up the pace? >> first of all, just the u.s. stock darkness they keep telling clients, the bond market in foreign currencies are not doing well. it is very hot. i think there's been a major change in sentiment to the investor. a lot of people for eight years have that the market does a lot, though once that stuff so i'll come crashing down. a lot of people say that cash or commodities or whatever.

i can sink my teeth into what is going to support it when the federal reserve leaves the situation and goes back to her great environment even though that may never happen. tax cuts, infrastructure spending. that will somehow magically carried to a higher high. you get out of bonds, out of cash in the last couple weeks out of foreign stocks into the u.s. stock market in which all of a sudden went to get ahead of the next 80s like riley peered neil: lewdly common do you think we would see this type of rally, this type of surgery this type of reaction is that of reaction if it had gone the other way? >> well, i doubt it. the clinton victory would have ushered in more of the same. we would've continued to have the status quo in terms of the very clear downward trends that have been established over the past several years. neil: say what you will, whatever your political

viewpoint, the markets more than doubled, tripled under barack obama. democrats come back and remind me this is the obama rally, not the trump rally. >> remember the market was responded to the idea of that support. the underlining economy lost momentum. they would have fewer and fewer tools to prop up the market so they would eventually have a correction back down to reality. the correction we still can we still could see going into next year if the policies under the incoming trump administration don't come to fruition or place a more moderate degree of what the market is doing. neil: excited playoff win cease being fair, you buy on the prospect, the rumor of a trump presidency once he's in office, what? >> well, i think what we are most likely to see come to see,

neil, is coming into the trump administration but that's remember it's not the trump administration. it is both chambers of commerce there with him, which is to your point with clinton election we still have the stalemate there. the first hundred days is going to be critical if they can work together, the administration plus congress to get some real things moving. i think the stock market will continue to support them expect all of the good things that tax breaks which we now everyone is anticipating because small-cap stocks are leading the charge here. you have to remember smaller companies pay a higher real tax rate real tax rates and a company so it's going to affect them more. >> even with a republican congress are difficult to get policies pushed through under the original play a nice proposing. these are still politicians. they are very concerned about the political livelihood over the next two to four years. will be concerned about what voters are putting number one and number two on the list to

first and foremost, jobs and the economy. it may be easier to get through, but number two is the government balance sheet. the idea that government under trump will enact a trillion dollars in stimulus without it being budget natural really doesn't seem -- neil: i will get into it with my next guest. jonas, one thing that worries me about this and maybe it's just a sign of the times is that the market used to fear those every six week meaning that the federal reserve. this one seems to be given the fed will raise rates. they be a lot busier doing that next year. no reason to fear anymore because the economic activity is all goodness had what you think of that? >> this year they will raise rates too far is the fear being taken away by the market from the optimism of what trump is going to do next year. we are in a nice euphoric mode that could last many months if

not a year but will eventually transfer to the fear this will blow up when they raise rates. that would be the next eight years. meanwhile, markets could fight out the negativity forever. neil: they have essentially for the last eight years. if someone came to you and said, i've been out of this market this long and i want to get on this gravy train and i want to exchange fund representing the dow or the s&p, what would you tell them right now at these levels? >> right now at these levels, i understand your trepidation a little bit because i dislike i.e. new highs. we've had 12 of them since the trump election. i think that there will be an opportunity between now and the end of the year to get a couple% pullback and not will make everybody feel better about buying. there's a small chance as you are talking about before that this thing just keeps going straight out.

markets typically don't do that. that would not be the normal mood. the next time the market breaks out, gives us a 2% to 3% pullback, that will be a much better time to buy. neil: i want to thank you all. it's a weird conundrum. everything has gone upside down. they all have in various degrees this debt are we whistling past this to responsible -- [inaudible] you have always feared like we are dealing with spending far more than we are takinand issue. you can't ignore that. it is still out there and it could get worse before it gets better, if it gets better. what do you think? >> not only is it still out there, it's projected to get worse and it's actually projected to never get better. on one hand markets are responding to the short-term fiscal stimulus that is likely to calm with a lot of new deficit spending and a more

business friendly environment. what they are ignoring to their peril because it means the growth plan we are looking up won't be sustained is that this is all predicated on trillions of dollars of debt and that is not something that will be a comprehensive sustained economic strategy. neil: can you grow -- i'm not saying growth your way out, but can you grow your way out of adding on deficit in other words you chip away at them to the point where they don't get worse anymore. >> 100% you cannot grow your way out for anything close to it. you had mitch daniels on yesterday and he said it right, which is you cannot go your way out of this problem but you can't fix a problem unless you grow the economy. focusing on economic growth through things like tax reform, which are different than tax cuts means changing the way we tax in this country to make us more competitive.

smart regulatory reforms, smart shift in spending to investment and importantly a sustainable fiscal policy where these things are paid forward and we bring our debt down is that about. the comprehensive growth. who contribute willot fix anon at code. we had kind of a free lunch discussion as though there are no hard choices. that's not true. we have a lot of choices in our budget or market have to come to terms withhem. otherwise we'll create a big government debt bubble that will hurt the markets and the economy. neil: i find it annoying that you attempt to shove reality back in my face. maybe you can educate me on whether we can do this again with no clinton. he didn't instantly eradicate the debt. we ran surpluses, but the key in those early years to bob rubin point and some of the other years show that you made to get a handle on this and not allowed,nd improvement alone

would be enough to win over markets, to win over doubters, to set that train in motion. when you make of that? >> there were two huge ingredients and smart policies that we need to get the economy and the markets on track in the same way. those are confident the insurgency. people are trying to figure out what they make a administration, what the priorities will be. a lot of exuberance and excitement in the markets. it may, but certainty iseay going to be important. when you look out on the horizon and see that the debt is going faster than the economy every year and an unsustainable path of you know things have to change. until we as economic leaders know what the changes will be, there isn't enough certainty. that's the kind of recipe that's going to be important to grow the economy and the next 10 years. we can do a way to kind of a

sugar high. that's not what we should be shooting for. we need to be growing the economy back to higher growth rates in a sustained way and i will take some work. neil: great catching up with you even though you did run me out. thank you very much. merry christmas. in the meantime, the dreamers. this of course you are here and shouldn't be here and all those who push sanctuary cities. given the fact that the mayor of new york and the mayor of chicago, all of those who have such cities admitting that donald trump to arizona governor jim brewer. she's next.

neil: we are monitoring as we do every day at the white house briefing. josh russia's comment on the possibility that barack obama will pardon some or all of the so-called dreamers, those illegally here and oftentimes this refers to the children of illegals here, but whether they would be partying or not. he does not expect to ram through any pardon at the last minute. there is an established process yet he is referring to the process already in place to sort of screen illegals who were here right now and sort out the dangerous from the not so dangerous. i thought this would be a good moment to pick up on that theme with dan brewer. governor, that has been out there as you know. maybe his final day pardons a whole bunch of illegals. when you think of that? >> well, i think it's wrong.

we believe in the rule of law and he had to be the enforcer of the rule of law. i hope that donald trump, the president elect, moves them and repeals his program and replaces it with whatever they, too. but we've got to give this illegal immigration under control. neil: are you troubled, governor when you see and many of these could be courtesy visit an average on the part of the president-elect when he meets with rahm emanuel, both sanctuary cities and are going to be reversing additions to the potential threat of how the federal funding polls from them. what you think of that and does it trouble you? >> i think it's good you reach out and speak to everybody and listen to what they have to say. we know the sanctuary cities are wrong. against federal law. i personally have my state sued

because we had no bids as they say dealing with immigration and a name to me and the loss also. believe that we do have rights of states that we don't have rights as dates, but they can't keep going back and forth. such a game plan issue that is very disturbing. mr. trump, when he ran he said he was going to address that issue. we've dealt with it for 30 years and we made our borders secured. we need toertainly get rid of the criminals in the state and all over the united states and the people that of overs did their views as. we are tired. we are tired of it. neil: you know, governor, i know you've heard this before, but one of my favorite moments in your colorful gubernatorial history because it is so unlike so many politicians who say one thing behind another politicians back or don't confront them

head-on. you did confront when he arrived in arizona and you had talked about how his positions in amnesty deals, what you saw as amnesty you wanted to talk about securing borders and that looked in that famous image pointing your finger that the leader of the free world was that you didn't care whether he offended and you didn't know: you weren't afraid of the guy. but you gave a piece of your mind. he simply doubled and tripled down on all of the above. does that in retrospect trouble you because courts have since sided with you and not within and yet nothing has changed. >> exactly. it's an impossible situation dealing with the federal administration. it was unfair. they wouldn't talk to us. president obama never even visited the arizona border, the

gateway of illegal immigration in our country and my taxpayers at the time were spending $3 billion to absorb all the illegalities. >> i always want to get the back story on that. you didn't have to greet them at the airport. the president's coming to your state of course you greet them. there were a lot of bad words between you guys. people going she's going to up to the guy when he arrives. what happened? >> well, i wanted to meet them at the airport. i thought it would be a good opportunity to talk to him. i had written him a handwritten letter hoping he would at least read it and address some of the issues that we were facing and fighting here in arizona. i asked him i could give him the letter. he said yes and he wanted to know what was in it. i told him and then we got into a discussion about the border and how he was defense about my

book scorpions for breakfast. none of the data in that book has ever been questioned. it's all correct. they just wouldn't listen. they don't care. they want the borders open for a lot of various reasons. i was whistling in the wind trying to get done help for our country. now i am hopeful that president-elect donald trump will listen and have everybody at the table. neil: you are not troubled president-elect trump might be backing off from some of that, might not be across the entire border? to some of the smoke signals bother you? >> i've always said we needed our borders secure, however that gets done. our borders need to be secure and we need to get rid of sanctuary cities. the president of the united states needs to go through congress and change the law. president obama did it by executive order which was additional and wrong.

he was not emperor or ki o the united states and the people of america and president-elect trump know that because certainly he came out and address it from the beginning that that was the number one issue that he was going to bring up and the rallies that was about securing our borders. we've dealt with him for 37 years. neil: yes, you did. >> it is one of my favorite opponents. nothat i got the back story, it has completed my picture. they appreciate you taking the time. >> thank you so much. neil: be well. charlie gasparino on this expanding list of possible secretaries of state. what is going on there?

neil: limburg has confirmed is that had some issues with past immersed trading debt.

but we don't know is how this could be affecting volume are getting trade to execute trading. investment banks that use this term and all is. i want to pick charlie gasparino's braynon not. obviously not affecting the bull market run here, but it could affect the final number of players participating. >> listen, all you have to do is know two or three ithe execute and do communications. this is -- >> we don't know that to the end of the day. >> i think we'll fix it and move on. a lot of this is algorithms. >> what happened yesterday? >> listen, the program trade primarily because i believe that maybe there's another nation for this. people think banks topsail go through the roof. when you lower, two things are

going on. you will get rid of.frank which will help bank earnings and banks have been pretty lean and mean since the financial crisis. the other thing that will help as the likelihood of a fed rate increase. think of it this way it's connor counterintuitive. it hurts their cost of capital, but it's not like that. higher rates means banks will charge you higher for those. it also means that they should charge you more. you should get paid more for savings account, but that kicks in later. they first raise your costs. they get paid more money. that doesn't happen until later. hence bank stocks go up. >> thank you for clarifying that. i want to get a sense of the secretary of state position. the only thing missing is you showing in the trump tower because he's talked to everybody else. what is going on? >> is a battle inside trump

landesk u.s. secretary of state. the thin, reince priebus who is his chief of staff, former head of the rnc, mike pence and will be his vice president while romney. they think mitt romney 2012 gop candidate for president who lost, the guy who even though he donald trump and was pretty nasty comment they think it's a good face for that job. trump likes names, likes the persona. >> is he dragging them through this? >> i don't think so. you've got steve bannon, chief of staff who was coming in. he hates and then saying his campaign manager thinks that it's bad. newt gingrich, another at riser saying don't go there. once you've got romney out of the way, it became like who was left. i always thought rudy had the inside shot because he was such

a loyal player. apparently people think is not temperamentally qualified for the job. i think he would be a really tough cop on the beat for the world and that put everybody on notice. i'm not making that call. that's one of the reasons he has been named. now in this vacuum you've got everybody in their own goal. the guy from ford, mullally. you had the guy from shell yesterday. it literally is a grab bag. neil: it's a foolish thought you could dismiss it when i saw pruitt, attorney general of oklahoma, that snaled to me that they are willing to just populate here, which is not romney for secretary of state. he won a similar type character at that import model. the epa choice, especially the

guy who's resisted and reject climate change and everything else. it seemed to telegraph to me, trump is going for rabble rousing. >> of these so far. he pants point that some do. to my dogs. think of it this way. that is the ideological battle that's going on. i think reince priebus says hold on, we would like someone. we don't want mad dog is secretary of state. it's a diplomatic position. >> he also seems to think that people telling him what to do. >> he makes the final call. a couple of names for rnc chief. these names have been out here. lol is what people, mercedes schlock, good friend of ours. i think she'd be a good choice. chairwoman bruno.

mommy make daniel. a political advisor to mike pence, we hear those names. trump i hear really likes mercedes. and what's not to like about her. neil: very interesting. thank you very much. we travel the world. this one just amazes me. the president-elect might be working with this old apprentice tv producer mark burnett. very big and not duration plans that would even call a fifth avenue parade they shut him down to washington for the ceremony. connell mcshane has all these details from the trump tower. if any of this true? reporter: i don't know, neil. it may all be false. nothing surprises us anymore. we know looking at the secretary of state which quite frankly would be right. the way this whole thing came about is burn that showed up to

meet with mr. trump. he also knows from his apprentice days and after the two of them talked, the president-elect went to a fancy restaurant to the inauguration and ted burnett came in here with all these ideas. take me in the helicopter and have the parade and all this the transition officials were to say we don't really have plans to actually do any of this. these are just ideas he came forward with and some would be hard to execute anyway because it's so expensive and so hard to secure. at the end of the day we very well may have one of these hyped up stories we've grown so used to over the past couple weeks that looks like every other inoculation. absent gasparino, and he thinks a choice. >> there was a little bit of pageantry to the republican convention. paragraph but watching that from home. i had major heart surgery. while i was watching your find

coverage, one thing i notice is they have been a sll network trunk came out to introduce. not good at the moment. whatever. there was a bit of hollywood theater to die. did they do what they want to do here? reporter: that's about to some extent. as far as we know in producing it. maybe some of these over-the-top reports we've heard what exactly happened. to say there's going to be something a little bit different, cap, i'm sure there will be. at the type of thing they e good at keeping. they love to surprise us a little bit with something. neil: the fifth avenue parade one i liked. even more traffic. thank you, buddy. as always, i campaign. connell mcshane. i want to show you the dow right now. i want to show you it's well into record territory. about 373 points away from 20,000.

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>> no denying that progress is at risk, because we have a president-elect who identified

different priorities and even been critical of some of this progress. that's unfortunate but, elections have consequences. neil: all right. progress is always in the eye of the beholder when it comes to epa moves under this president. some would say a bit of a overreach there. already talk that oklahoma attorney general scott pruitt now interested and likely will take a job has been offered him to run the epa. he has been long critical of the epa. sued the epa on number of occasions. he is the top guy there, what to make of that? with us, tom price, by the way, representative tom price has commented on that as well, talking about doing things anathema to your organization. he will take over health and human services. these controversial choices are ending up. senator tom barrasso of fine state of wyoming. what he makes of takes very eager to undo the work of their

predecessors if confirmed? senator, how do you feel about all of this? >> as the white house spokesman said, elections have consequences. donald trump won and talking about make america great again and make america grow again. tom price and scott pruitt represent a lot of people who have a lot of experience at state level. tom is state legislator who then served in congress. i have had think they will do a better job than the obama administration with its one size, fits all approach that regulatory rampage that hurt our economy and put people out of work. neil: i wonder whether pruitt will have tougher confirmation hearings? republicans control both bodies, given the fact he dared to question climate change or dared to question the yawning gap between regulations that benefit the environment and those that will be balanced out with saving

jobs, that it has been more of a form of one and not enough of latter? will that come back to bite him? some people say your edict is the environmental protection agency. this is something a republican president created, richard nixon. you seem to be refuting its very purpose. you say what? >> we all want clean air. we all want clean water. i come from wyoming one of the most beautiful states anywhere. neil: absolutely. >> we dealt with epa that made it much, much harder for us with our beautiful environment to have jobs in terms of energy development, energy exmore race and epa's regulations i've seen under the obama administration have been very costly with very little if any actual benefit. i'm looking forward to having somebody in charge. epa, focuses on clean air, clean water without hurting our economy in the process. that is the key there, neil. hard to know what democrats in the senate will do in terms of confirmation. which is your question.

when harry reid changed rules of senate you only need 51 votes, it will be a lot harder for them to vote the nominees. neil: he might rue though days. stepping back from this, you're a doctor by training. do you think health care, if i could just switch to that effect, we keep hearing, senator it is going to take time. it could take up to three years. i understand the complexity of that. but a lot of people were expecting quick and dramatic action on that, if that timetable is right, i don't know if it is, it would mean that millions, maybe tens of millions more could sign up for the affordable care act, thereby making it even tougher for you guys to disentertaining gel them from it which is something else by the time you do? >> well, we plan to very quickly in the next administration, put on president trump's desk a piece of legislation to repeal significant portions of the health care law and then the replacement will be done in an

orderly manner to make sure that people who as lives are terribly disrupted by this health care law are not disrupted any further. just last week "gallup poll," eight out of 10 americans say health care law should be repealed or replaced or significantly changed because the costs to taxpayers as well as individual people in their health insurance are much too high. neil: senator, thank you for taking the time. i appreciate it. >> thanks, neil. neil: all right. and he's right about that, wyoming is one beautiful state. critics are worrying about all the generals that are in this next administration. is it really that many? is it really that disproportionate? we'll look at it.

>> good afternoon, live from the floor of the new york stock exchange, i'm lori rothman with your fox business brief. turn your attention to mortgage interest rates, highest level of the year right now. 4.13%. cost of 30-year fixed mortgage with freddie mac. this money in the stock market getting sucked out of bonds. a fed meeting where we expect to hear that interest rates will continue to rise. let's have a look at some homebuilders in relation to mortgage rates. they're up today for the most part with the exception of hovnanian down about 3%. those are higher in largely strong market. look at benchmark averages plus russell 2000. another day of lifetime highs, on track for another record

close for the dow. it would be the 13th record close since the election alone. let's have a look at dow transports. also a second day of a record. that index is economically sensitive. thinoving on the right track. get you back to neil. [vo] quickbooks introduces jeanette

and her new mobile wedding business. at first, getting paid was tough... until she got quickbooks. now she sends invoices, sees when they've been viewed and ta-da, paid twice as fast! see how at quickbooks-dot-com. neil: i'm just wondering whether this terror issue is

underplayed, or that we don't appreciate the graphtry of it? >> it is movement, ideology, neil, as you know and these kind of things are very, very difficult to defeat. i keep a close watch what is going on, the caribbean, south america, but as the expression goes we have to be 100% effective around they only need to get through once, but it is a movement, ideology that seems to be growing. neil: all right. that was general kelly at the time. you know, he was warning about the terror threat, warning about the security threat. and now he is the president-elect's choice to run homeland security. in fact there are a number of retired generals and former military types populating this cabinet and that has some worried that it is disproportionately so. so we thought we would ask presidential historian doug wead if that is the case and should we worry? what do you think, doug? much is made of that and i can

remember, you know this far better than any, many administration that had some top military types, retired military types? i guess what they're arguing here, not this high of a percentage, is that true? >> it may be, neil, but i got to tell you, give me a break. george washington was a general. dwight eisenhower was a general. andrew jackson. chester b arthur, rutherford b. hayes, ulysses s. grant, william henry harrison, we have had 12 presidents of the united states who were generals. what trump is trying to do drain the swamp and end the corruption. so his choices are academia, business and military. those are his choices. if he goes with politicians like "the new york times" and "washington post" want him to do, he will be picking people who were successful, rising to the top, working with lobbyists, quid pro quo and he is already sent the signal to boeing, he

says, hey look, i'm a billionaire. i don't need your money. boeing gave a million dollars to the clinton foundation. they did a $2 million deal with the state department for the olympics. their executives all gave money for hillary clinton to win election. now it is quid pro quo. clinton will open the covers for them. hey, clinton didn't win. the signal he sent to boeing which many people misunderstood? you want government money, come in on time with a good bid, you can get government money but the old way of doing business is over and, it is going to take generals to run those bureaucracies and business leaders bureaucracies if he doesn't tap the politicians. neil: you know what is interesting about what you said, doug, i had forgotten about all the chief executives themselves came from the military, including recent history, general eisenhower, the fear is always that it is going to assistant too much tards military types. then the separation where you

have private citizens, for wont of a better term, non-military types, running these military positions, that that is something special and in the case of america and that we don't want to, you know, we don't want to blur that. what do you think ofhat? >> well, we've never had it happen in the past. we've had great leadership from generals. all of our presidents who were generals acquitted themselves well. there has never been any attempt to do that. i find it just facetious and farfetched. when we started, we picked a retired general, george washington, to lead our country and he's one that set the whole precedent. he is the one that walked away from power. it is ridiculous and bogus argument. donald trump has been, this has surprised me, i think except for abraham lincoln, he has been the greatest president-elect we've ever had because every decision he's made, may look haphazard, call from taiwan, the deal with carrier and indiana, everyone of

them is strategic. everyone of them is making a point. he is speaking to us through these decisions, and he is showing that a president can't just sit back in the rose garden and give lectures. they have to get out front and lead. and i am very impressed, i don't know what his presidency will be like, i'm very impressed with him as a president-elect. neil: in the case of lincoln, states were seceding, no action on his part, he couldn't control that, but a little different, very activist. >> he had some input, you know. neil: absolutely. he sent a message. >> buchanan was the 19th century equivalent of a netflix binge. he disappeared. here was lincoln trying to keep kentucky in the union. those little jokes he told and things he did in speeches as president-elect were very powerful and important. neil: i remember you had covered lincoln at the time. so it is hard to believe, all that time passed by. thank you, doug. have a merry christmas.

>> merry christmas to you, neil. neil: wonderful insight this past year. what happens when the weather gets cold? you obviously put on a jacket and try to bundle up but invariably, heating oil prices rise, and anything connected with energy rises. what happens if this cold-snap stays around for a while? i'll explain.

neil: you can time it like the weather, which is just like the weather. heating oil prices move up when it looks like temperatures will move down. in this case stay down a while. could heating oil then start rocketing, all of a sudden we're looking at problematic winter to come? phil flynn, he is the genius of geniuses on all things relad

to futures and energy and all that. what is going to happen, pl? what do you see playing out righnow? >> i think it is going to be really scary, neil, i really do. not heating oil. it is hitting highest level in over a year. i'm really worried about natural gas. this is the an area where the market is taking it for granted. for the first time in since 2005, u.s. natural gas production will fall this year. if we have a record cold-snap, that means we will use more natural gas than before. that mean as drawdown in inventories that we haven't seen before. that could lead too a major price spike. i'm worried about this winter. the market is not prepared for winter. we haven't had a real winter. we decided to get rid of all coal plants, use more natural gas and export natural gas but we never thought we might need it if it ever got cold. neil: depends on the how long

the cold season, rights? we unwind the positions when it starts getting warmer or no? >> we usually do. we see big price spikes and prices come down when the weather goes down. the forecasts are mixed. only safe way to do this, get one of these. this is what we wear in chicago when it gets cold. that is what you need. that is the safest way right now because this cold is, may stay around for a while. if it doesn't you will see a pullback. natural gas we're at long-term bottom. neil: you have to so three of those hats together for it to fit over my cranium. >> somebody gave this to me. if i got a haircut it would fit better i think. neil: thank you, my buddy. good stuff as always. >> thank you. neil: see that's delivering the extra mile, right? that is taking the story and running with it. that is fox business. the other guys? they're still making hostage tapes. more after this.

: :

. neil: all right. there may be some trading issues to deal with, not as many because of the bloomberg issue but those who are, are buying stock like crazy. it's a new record. russell at a new record, s&p doing just fine. here we go again, 20,000 maybe in your hour at the rate we're going, trish regan. trish: it could happen, it's incredible to watch all. this neil, thank you so much. a businessman turned president selecting nonpoliticians for top positions in the administration, today donald trump filling out his cabinet, selecting proven business leaders and proven generals, people with a proven record of success of leadership and accountability. imagine that, in government. i'm trish regan, welcome, everyone, to "the intelligence report". the president-elect meeting with the former ceo of ford alan mulally about a possible secretary of state appointment. under mulally's leadership, ford