that looked very -- look at that. most famous people when they sign an aught grawf can't tell who it is. that's a donald. now, may i introduce neil cavuto with whom i am not going to do a bro hug. >> i think donald trump's signature looks like a geiger counter. stuart: i have 6 state years old and i don't wear glasses or con taxes and i can read it. neil: i was going to work on the italian hug are you. you hug closely, then you hear shots. stuart: that's good, that was very good. neil: i will try to top it. it will be hard but we'll do our best. 51 electors are demanding an intel briefing on to what degree

the russians hacked the election. california elector christine pelosi leading this charge out of san francisco. christine, these 51 electors, how do they break down? >> all of us are patriots, prepared to do our constitution 58 duty as members of the electoral college. when we read "the washington post" report last friday night that indicated the cia claims conclusive evidence that russia hacked our election, we thought it was time for to us step up and demand an investigation. we wanted the information declassified as much as possible so that everybody -- neil: how many are democrat and how many are republican? >> we have 50 democrats, one republican and one member of the working family party from new

york on the record and many more republicans and democrats off the record. neil: do you want the republicans to switch their votes? >> i want everyone to look at the information. i absolutely want everybody to have a chance to look at the information. if it's declassified so the public can take a look at it, too, without endangering our sources and methods in the intelligence community, that's the role of the electoral college is to look at the facts, make sure there hasn't been as hamilton warned, foreign influence in our election. neil: you are absolutely sure given the cia said it's russia is accurate? it's the same cia that said there were weapons of mass destruction. >> that was bush-cheney who said that. i don't know if these are the same cia characteristics a

agents who did the data gathering and collecting. neil: you seem to be picking and choosing your intelligence data, then. you might not aggrieve with what the cia said in 2003. the cia missed the fact that india had nuclear capability in 1998. >> why are you attacking the cia? neil: why are you picking and choosing what you want to believe from the cia? >> i'm actually not. i'm asking to get a look at the information myself. so it can be revealed to the american people. let's take a look at it. we don't know if they acted alone or blackmailed republicans or democrats. neil: let's say you found out they did act a lone and they were trying to influence the

election, not so much as to tip the election, the electors are aware of that. are you saying they should be aware of their influence or the republicans should switch their allegiance to donald trump because of this? >> i think you have to ask the republican electors what they are going to do. but we are trying to get the information declassified for everyone. and lowethe classification so we can actually take a look at it at a local facility so -- like a military base or f.b.i. office so we can make an informed decision. i'm not taking them at their word. if i took them at the word of someone who put information in the post, i would have stood up friday night and said i believe them. i want to make my own independent judgment based on the facts they present. i think that's important. i think it's unhelpful to the conversation to presume that one characteristics a agent is

necessarily d that one cia agent the -- one said i did some things i'm proud of, i did some things i'm not proud of. i think this information should be declassified. is there blackmail? let's find out. neil: i apologize for being cynical. when you have 50 of the 51 electors who are democrats. they necessarily are not going to switch their votes as a result. is this about hurting donald trump and the credibility of this election and nothing more? >> this is really about finding out the truth about the role the russians played in our election. neil: if it was reversed would you say the same thing? >> if it were reversed the congressional republicans would have held hearings first thing monday morning. neil: i don't know that. you would be urging the same

meeting of electors? >> we asked for declassification of information from this administration for years. neil: you would have the same attitude about getting this out to the public? >> i'm always for more transparency. if i thought my party was going to be subject to blackmail by russia, you darn right i would want to see that information. neil: do you think hillary clinton lost this election and the electoral vote? >> i think hillary clinton was severely damaged by the hacking that -- of her emails and the dnc emails that went on a drip, drip, drip basis for three months every day. neil: do you think she lost the election? >> absolutely. neil: you think that the

information didn't -- wants what did her in? she lost. >> i don't know that you can say that. what if donald trump lost the election. would you say the was one single factor or would you say it was an array of factors. neil: you are trying to get electors who are bound to the republican candidate in republican states too switch their allegiance. >> don't put words in my mouth. neil cavuto you owe it to the american people to let me tell the truth and not lie about what i just said. alex jones said the same thing. he said i want to have a coup and assassinate donald trump. neil: donald trump doesn't come on my show. donald trump doesn't like me. he doesn't come on this show. i have no agenda here.

>> don't put word in my mouth that you know will antagonize people and make we unsafe. you need to understand -- neil: you want them to switch their votes, yes or no. >> what i want to do is get information and i want you to not mischaracterize what i say so i don't get more death threats and online attacks than i'm already getting. part of the reason republicans won't sign on to my letter is they say i don't want that blowback. neil: you wouldn't know half the email i get when i raise critical questions. it's difficult to get any accurate word out off your mouth. >> you have gotten many accurate word out my mouth. neil: you want the electors to get this intelligence data.

i'm taking the lead that it will prove russia interfered in the election for the sake of argument. what do you want the electors to do with that information? >> i haven't seen it so i can't prejudge it. neil: this is a chicken and egg thing. >> what i want you to do is discuss accurately what i am saying. neil: i don't know what you are saying. what do you want them to do with it? what if all the republicans look at this information and vote the way they voted in their state, you would be okay with that? yes or no. >> what i want first is to get the information. i am not going to prejudge something i have not seen. i do not know what it is the democratic party or the

republican party is facing vis-a-vis possible blackmail threats, possible continuing hacking threats. but i'm concerned by the as an american citizen. neil: when all is said and done -- >> what the electors do and the senators donna their confirmation -- neil: when all is said and done, will you ever look at what happened in the election as a sign that hillary clinton didn't win it because hillary clinton botched it, because hillary clinton's message didn't resonate period? >> i think as i said before. when someone wins or loses an election, there isn't just one factor. do we say that -- i have been complaining about mistakes that were made since the beginning. neil: where did she botch it? >> i thought -- let's start i think chronologically. let's go back a year and a half

ago. i thought the democratic national officials trying to limit the number of presidential debates made a mistake and i told hem that several times. at the democratic presidential committee meeting in august 2015 when we were hoping to have more didn't to mobilize the grassroots around that message and that request fell on deaf ears. neil: that's the general election. any final -- >> staffers were accused of taking some of the information off the voter files. you might remember that the response of the dnc was to cut the entire sanders campaign off from taking a look from those records. neil: any comments on the general election? >> you can't do that. the death penalty for a campaign

the day before the debate. neil: one thing in the general election she botched? >> i felt once the -- once we had come out of the convention and done very well, i thought what we needed to do was have a more robust cooperation to help the down-ticket races. i would have liked to have seen that as much as anybody else. more calls to swing states, more phone calls, more presence by the candidate is better. i haven't looked at all of the data. but what i see, and i don't fault hillary clinton for this per se, because she is receiving information from her analyst. but one of the things we are talking about as members of the democratic national committee as we pick our new chair, what was the targeting data? did they understand the report we gave to our congressional candidate in june that talks about where trump had done well,

there were three factors in common. stagnant wages from 2004 to 2014. industries shuttered or changed due to globalization or auto yo- neil: those affected group hillary won? >> i didn't think they were targeted and taken into account as much as they should have. there will be a debate as we go forward, how to we reinforce the economic message we were talking about right before the comey letter hit. hillary came to san francisco and she got a standing ovation. neil: you were just mentioning real substantive issues donald trump had bested hillary

clinton, that had nothing to do with the russians. you mentioned james comey, that mitre might not have been a factor. but you mention legitimate issues that were shortcomings on the part of the clinton campaign. >> when we were -- this is what happened every morning. we would wake up, look and see on wikileaks to see if there was something we had said that was suddenly going to be the subject of an internet attack. that would take precious time out our day. when the comey letter hit, we were doing get out the vote calls. rather than calling and saying hey, neil, this is christine calling, neil was asked, what about this comey report and what's going on with anthony weiner and explain all the things about this investigation. so that's a time suck. so even after a 5 or 10-minute conversation.

you say thanks for the information, i'm going to vote now. i wasted time on explaining comey rather than sharing with you -- neil: donald trump had issues he was dealing with as well. >> we were calling the yeses saying go vote. the yeses were dropping undecided. and even as republicans noted, 20 million americans voted early while hillary clinton was under a cloud of suspicion from the f.b.i. the first letter was very hurtful. neil: i don't think donald trump ask -- beside this russian stuff, a factor, i don't dismiss the fact that they could have had a mis mischievous role in t.

>> i don't know which is beyond what. bannon made it clear they had a voter depression strategy. they said we have to suppress her vote among african-americans, young people and sanders voters. neil: or she just could have been a lousy candidate. >> i don't think a lousy candidate wins the popular vote by 2 million more than the opponent. i don't think we can insult all of the voters by assuming they were only choosing the lesser as opposed to the person they thought was the great candidate. there was a lot of enthusiasm among people, particularly among a lot of women and volunteers that i worked with for 2 1/2 years. neil: not enough to close the deal.

>> she won my state almost 2-1. so as far as i'm concerned, we saw a lot of enthusiasm. neil: all the candidates, more people voted against hillary clinton than voted for her. so if you look at it all, you are right, the election is over. we have got to move on. right? >> we have to take a cold, hard look at two things. number one from the standpoint of what was the role that was played by the russians. what is the cia news report. we were talking about this. neil: i gave you a lot of time to get into this. you raised a lot of solid points. christine pelosi, thank you very much. we have a lot of fallout. stick around.

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neil: do you think hillary clinton lost this election and the electoral vote? >> i think hillary clinton was severely damaged by the hack of her emails and the dnc emails that went on a drip drip drip basis every day for three months. so you think it wasn't her message that didn't reach voters who were subject to high unemployment states like wisconsin and michigan, that that isn't what did her in, this thing did her in. >> i think there are several factors in wing and losing. neil: she lost. >> no. neil: i don't get it. but this on. get electors on board and get the intelligence data and throw it up in the care and see what

they decide to do. what do you make of this argument. is it a broader attempt to delegitimize donald trump's victory? >> that's all it is. my head hurts. none of that make any sense. what that was was an i tempt to delegitimize trump's victory it's dangerous and pernicious. if this is what happens in our country when you lose an election, you seek to subvert the results of the election for coming up for reasons why and you want the electoral college to do something it has never historically done. people thought donald trump even talking about this in october -- you have the former speaker of the house, nancy pelosi's

daughter, trying success vert the electorate. it's pernicious. neil: you were there with the bush administration. there was a lot of second guessing on intelligence and weapons. mass destruction. so back then they didn't swear by that data. they later swore at it and the folks providing it. now it fits an agenda that says donald trump wasn't duly elected it's another story. >> i'm interested in the cia angle. the cia has put out what i thinks anonymous sources. north korea hacked us, china hacked us. where was president obama and the administration to protect us. you know what you get hacked? base you never push back.

you have never send the signal if you do it to us, we'll do it worse so don't even think about it. this is how ronald reagan and george hw bush won the cold war. president obama aquestion else during these attacks. we have no evidence or knowledge that he ever counter attacked. this is why when an adversary finds an open door, they just keep walking through it. neil: i north intelligence that points to russia. i don't deny whether there was a role. but i'm asking it would have been significant enough to flip it results of this election. to dlip deliberately flip it results? >> when you lose an election you have a tendency that everything could have turned it around. the democrats blamed wikileaks and james comey and fake news.

they can't accept the fact that donald trump beat hillary clinton. neil: the fed has a big meeting and we'll know in about an hour and a half the course of interest rates. donald trump not a fan of the fed. will they go up or down?

..

neil: the first guy going to the white house who is a vocal critic of the federal reserve which we had politicians who questioned fed moves but donald trump has gone as far as to muse out loud do we need a federal reserve? federal reserve president charles foster, there could be conflict growing even after the rate hike later today. will they raise rates? >> i think they will. it would be very bad if they didn't. neil: like other rate hikes. >> they will suggest that.

they will be patient. neil: well handled. you heard the criticism during the break, wait a minute, we don't need a said. they are overtly political. >> i don't think the fed is overtly political. it tries hard not to be. they are creatures of congress. neil: you are aware when you make a move. >> how can you not be? neil: do you buy the argument, i see right or left when you get in fat, you do look out for the greater good, not just blowing smoke about near 0, the cycle, the quick republican response, you benefited the democrats. >> that is not the way the fed thinks about it. i disagree with some of that but it wasn't for political reasons, not because i thought it was the

wrong decision for the economy. neil: creating a new bubble. >> the unintended consequences could be very difficult. we haven't got resolution to that yet. we are waiting to shrink the balance sheet, raise rates, get back to normality and whatever that is. neil: you look at rates where they are and start moving up a little bit if we get to 0.6 on fed funds and get to equilibrium, the markets are going to tank on that. you have to be aware of the market fallout, the rates will given the bull market we have seen. >> the fed is nervous about that. if market rates have since the election gone up 50, 75, behind the curve. it is chasing them up.

and market rates keep going ahead of them. an awkward spot for a wild, how they are going to play out, what policies are affected? >> when they make a statement, how markets have performed post election of donald trump, they way that into a statement, asking questions today that comes up, the trump play, the economic activity will pick up and have to address that? >> they will try to be evenhanded, we are aware they got different ideas how fiscal policy often evolves in coming

years, we don't know how that is going to be, we will be waiting to see how that plays out, two kinds of fiscal policies we can get from this administration or the clinton administration. is there a lot of government spending of traditional keynesian demand stimulus style or is it t fiscal policy that enhances productivity? neil: are a different beast, tax cuts even when you hear mitch mcconnell say they should be revenue neutral do you support that view or the view of other republicans who say dynamic accounting says he will have worse deficits in the near term but you get all this revenue in so you grade them differently. >> i would grade them differently. what i would look for, the right policy should be policy whether it is tax cuts or rollbacks in

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neil: the best and brightest and richest of the tech community gathering at trump tower and speak to donald trump, former microsoft ceo on what they a. they know the head of ibm is telegraphing big over the next few years. and bemoaned the fact that white-collar blue-collar, and beneficial, is that what they see on this event? >> i think it will. he will continue on that dimension today he meets with these folks, >> the biggest tech names, they

are not the type of folks, how do you think it is going to go. >> hard to tell. >> they get a lot more practical once they realize, change can be driven to washington dc or influence the change, one of the things about jobs in the tech sector, it is not a labor-intensive kind of industry. ibm hires hordes of people, most of these other companies are not labor intensive. i don't know that that is the best theme for him to work with this through. neil: going back to microsoft, that shows american ingenuity in the tech sector. since donald trump's election,

and a group of stocks and major ones. >> the notion of immigration is important, and donald trump is against immigration. the notion of the tax code and bringing dollars back and that has been in line, the expectation is those dollars will be brought back and tons of jobs, not a labor-intensive industry. neil: nevertheless we have seen tim cook with a hint of more iphones making the more expensive. others might be offering to do the same but do you see the needle changing in that regard? >> frankly i don't.

the reason the labor differential for those few companies that are somewhat involved with manufacturing, the labor differential is great but by and large it won't be a big industry issue because a lot of these companies are not labor-intensive at all. the likes of google and facebook, shocked how the employment rates are. google and 16,000 or so for facebook, these are major companies at this point. neil: good stuff, good seeing you again. the president-elect could face resistance over big tax cuts. what if i told you not from democrats, a very important republican.

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neil: there is a lot of concern about the tax cut donald trump wants. they are not going to be as big as he wants but resistance will not be coming from democrats but republicans, particularly an important one, the guy in charge of the senate agenda, mitch mcconnell, the republican leader. the new york post daniel halpern on what if anything we might see as a result. what mitch mcconnell has said is he wants everything to be revenue neutral which tax cuts at face value are not unless you are scoring dynamically. we see out of them in the first hundred days, what are we hearing? >> a recognition on capitol

hill, $20 trillion in debt and donald trump has an ambitious plan for $20 trillion interest plan, and all these things cost money and therefore we can't lose money, can't pay the bills and deal with the debt and obligations at hand. it is a negotiating tactic. and believe in tax cut and i don't think mitch mcconnell can turn down the tax cuts but there is a belief, rines priebus said earlier today tax reform will be a huge issue, top priority for the trump administration, and closing some loopholes. and offset this to allow tax breaks. >> you pay for the infrastructure. and conservative republicans, let's make it revenue neutral

over several years, and compromise revenue into washington but scoring dynamically, materialize. is that something the more establishment type republicans are willing to swallow or not be change they did that with president obama when they forced him to do the same thing. and be responsible and recognize there is a huge amount of debt and it needs to be paid off. under president obama the deficit doubled, went from $10 trillion to $20 trillion. if we continue at the same pace doubling every eight years we are in huge trouble. it is not yet a crisis and that is why no one is taking it seriously but it will be of crisis at some point and will need to be taken seriously so there is talk about it but it doesn't affect the policy in a

way mcconnell once it to, do it seriously, don't just ignore the financial obligations, there will be consequences. it is not totally inconsistent with donald trump. he talked about lowering the deficit and cutting the federal workforce and tightening of the fries of government so it is not inconsistent, just not the same language, speaking past each other at this point but trump hasn't gotten here. neil: it is odd that you have a lot of democrats anxious about the debt and deficit. >> a lot of people's political priorities have changed now that the election happened, funny how politics does that to people. neil: thank you very much. washington bureau chief, a lot more coming up. this whole hacking thing back and forth, on the left or the

right, do you think the media is going nuts on this and relying on the cia study when media was very quick to pounce on the cia for screwing up other things. why are they on this one? you do all this research

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neil: this would be a first, you want the electors to get this intelligence data by taking the leap that russia acted to interfere in the election. >> how can you take that leap? neil: i'm going to for the sake of argument. what do you want the electors to do with that information? >> i haven't seen it so i can't prejudge it. neil: this is a chicken and egg situation. do you want them --

>> that would -- neil: that went well. the media is jumping all over that russia report. no one is questioning russia had something to do with packing our election either alone or in concert with others as might be the case. russia russia russia russia. what i do find interesting, great to have you, thank you for coming. this is the same media that picks and chooses the intelligence data that it likes or doesn't like. when the cia claims into thousand 3 there were weapons of mass destruction in iraq, they later questioned that one because that was a bad report and i could go on and mention other examples. should we be cautious? >> of course we should be cautious. the one suggestion that russian backpackers, maybe not russian government hackers but russian

backpackers had some hacking presence, put out documents through wikileaks, that is one story that should be looked at. to believe in the suggestions that this is what changed the outcome of the election is essentially trying to claim trump's election is illegitimate. you had people on cbs and other network suggesting exactly that. neil: without outright saying it, by demanding that the electors meet before they gather next sunday to go over this intelligence they are more or the saying vote your conscience but you know what you got to do. >> this is exactly what journalists said would be the height of your responsibility if donald trump had lost and then tried to sew the scenes -- a rigged election. we went through this three weeks ago with the big recounts are going to change everything. they have several minutes of air

times in the networks, not laughed at or treated as a major deal but we had a recount in wisconsin and the person who gained votes in that was donald trump, he won wisconsin by more after the recount than before. it got a few seconds of airtime, not as much of the initial recount. all these hail mary passes and none are making it to the end zone. neil: one thing i find even when i try to take the argument all the way with those who are pushing it. i even give them their whole argument that russia did hack our elections and they were so shrewd at this before but they didn't take care to hide their fingerprints, say they acted alone without counter with anyone even though there have been other players in the past. do you wonder what this is about? you touch on it. want those electors to change

their mind as a result of this intelligence. that is what this is about. >> they want to put the news out that electors should change their mind. a little like the bush 2000 election where there was always a core of people on the left who said he didn't win legitimately even after all the media sponsored recounts showed he would have won florida just as he did in real life as the supreme court validated. you weren't allowed to ask questions about president obama but we are back to republican president-elect and they have to cast doubt about legitimacy. i think the suspicion is going to be there no matter how outrageous or crazy it is. last thing they want is to be really tested because that negates the whole thing. better to let it stay out as a cause for liberals to rally around over the next four years. neil: always good catching up with you.

thank you very much. the vice president-elect arriving at trump tower. the tech meeting is on and they are getting ready. more after this.

>> in america, trump tower, to talk about how to grow jobs in high-tech across the country. yesterday with bill gates and very enthusiastic that rick perry stepped forward to lead the department of energy. the momentum and the pace of this transition will continue forward all the way into the holidays as we assemble a team that will make america great again starting january 20th. thank you all. neil: that guy is sounding like ronald reagan more every single day. probably the most powerful person in this administration, donald trump promises the most powerful vice president ever,

mike pence telegraphing the big tech powwow to come. a lot of those people were not fans of donald trump but gathering now and waiting to hear what the president-elect has to say about jobs and their business in the technology world, whether it will support their cause or not support their cause. an hour from the fed decision, we are expecting the federal reserve to raise interest rates for the first time in a year, only the second time since 2006. everyone looks for what the federal reserve says and telegraphs its message at the press conference, janet yellen after that. to marketwatch, scott morrison -- what are you looking at? >> we made america great again in the stock market. the equity market is rising, credit narrowing and some amazing things. my feeling is you buy on the rumor, sell on the news and we may see some pool back to come when we see trump -- we have to put some things in place like

less regulation, hard work. neil: could the markets bear the possibility of more than two rate hikes in 2017. baked into the cake before the election. what do you think? >> what is interesting is we get that evidence in the first quarter. don't forget we had today's meeting between 2 in the first quarter of next year but by march 30th or 31st we will be there with regards to if we got a position with hikes. we have been promised these rate hikes, the hike in december, three or four more to come in 2016. we saw none until the one we see today. expectations got to check at the door. >> what is your take on this.

>> we are aloft in intervention. easy to figure out how many huggies walmart will sell next year or next quarter. what is the fed going to do? what is donald trump going to do with his cronyism and protectionism and tariffs and antitrust. that is difficult to be an investor, can't trust the numbers because government is a part of every element of this economy and will be even after trump's election. >> for good or ill, looking at a government entity, advancing this. >> one thing i can tell you, raised by a quarter of a point, say something more or less than they have in 2017. that is where you see outside reaction.

is that what you see later today. it could be negative. if you raise rates. and big surprise couldn't be that stocks fall. people are waiting for an interest rate hike, boning up dramatically. and the first mortgage, 10, 15%. that is impossible. alan greenspan himself a few months ago talking 5% or 6% interest rate. neil: market seem to be pooh-poohing all these possibilities. >> they high -- higher rates.

and if there only experience, single digit mortgage rates, whatever historical abnormality of that is if you are used to mortgages that move to four or five, that is a jolt for you. i wonder how that will go down. >> if you were an alien and came to earth in the last 20 years and looked at the relationship between stocks and bonds, that will go up together. speaking of the last 20 years. as you see the impact of higher rates coming done whether it is fed driven or in the case of donald trump deficit spending, economic growth, inflation, those are things to watch if you own stocks because stocks have thrived on low interest rates. neil: assuming if you were an alien that you knew there was a vote or a correlation but a

brilliant point. >> you saw a 2500 point hike in the dow, in a month. that just happened. we are in reality markets. once we see what happens when trump, the trifecta or hat trick, republicans in all positions of power is what people are speculating, buying on the rumor maybe we should sell on the news. neil: what do you think of that? too much? too soon? >> a continuation of the trend, the market at an all-time high. after donald trump was elected, that escalated after donald trump was elected, any historical analog, a little hyperbolic but a lot of herbert hoover leading up to the crash

of the great depression, he was a businessman who promised to save and bring back american jobs and promised protectionism. neil: thank you all very much. forget the dow 20, if my next guest is right we should be focusing on debt 20 trillion watch. the president of the committee for a responsible federal budget. there is the concept, good to have you back. focused on the 20 k claim on the dow. and a lot of excitement about potential changes that could help business, corporate tax reform.

and build unsustainable changes, and so is the debt. and the total debt, a huge reminder that donald trump is walking into office with the gdp, the highest we have seen. there are a lot of changes to keep the economy growing away that is sustainable -- neil: who is the one other president? >> truman. neil: as percentage of gdp? >> that is shared gdp, the most important indicator of the fiscal health of the economy. because we came out of a huge downturn in 2008. the result of the debt ran up and never put in place a plan that helps bring the debt back down. that is something that will fall on the shoulders of the next

administration to put in place. reince priebus was saying it was important to look at ways to balance the budget, reduce the deficit and put in place long-term debt plan. that will be one of the best things we could do with longer-term sustainable growth. neil: i do think it is about the plan but you got to show its erection for getting a handle on this. of the trump administrion can do that, bill clinton tried to do, to win over the investment community, the democrat coming in, it could go a long way. >> a lot of things you could do to increase confidence in our economy and that is putting in place a lot of reforms that will improve the business environment which is why markets are doing well and on the plus side you have tax reform, regulatory reform. on the negative side we are not sure where the immigration changes will affect the business environment which affected jobs and wages. underpinning all of this is sustainable growth plan.

that is not going to be built on deficit spending and right now the plans are in place, policies at up, increases in the deficit, the deficit is already too high and it will be hitting $1 trillion if we don't make changes. another thing to think about is linking this to growing interest rates which of the fed increases rate as we think it will this is going to be a painful reminder we have been coasting on artificially low interest rates. neil: we could add 1 trillion to this in the blink of the interest rate high. >> interest rates going up by one percentage point would add $1.5 trillion to our debt payments. that is real money. neil: if they do something on entitlements, something to curb their continued advance i don't think it would have to be a herculean moment. just something, anything to rein in its growth. still growing but take one to

7.5%. i think that would return huge evidence. >> i agree with you completely. it has to be done and if we make those changes now we can do them on terms that won't affect people who defend the programs. every year we wait, it becomes more costly. you couldn't put in place small changes today that don't affect retirees, people who depend on the programs and they can be phased in an savings compound gradually. it would be exactly the right recipe to deal with long-term debt that is growing out of control and you can't ignore entitlements. we tried to during the election but they passed the budget, three quarters of the growth of spending and the entire federal budget and the delay is political cowardice instead of dealing with the bigger important challenges we have. neil: you are exactly right. so good having you on, i always learn a great deal. in the meantime, this whole

russia income a whether they asked wade the election but i always think the next big leap you got to take, did they do what they did to the point that they flipped this thing? the election, hillary clinton would have won, she lost because they intervened, that is what a lot of democrats are pushing these meetings with electors. i could be very wrong. i doubt it. >> on the next kennedy, trump's secretary of state pick make have opposition from other republicans. greg garfield and dana perino will join me. stuart: too. generosity is its own form of power.

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>> it is so obvious the russians interfered. neil: it was so obvious a cia plan to launch an attack against cuba against castro would work, so obvious the indians didn't have any nuclear capability until it was clear they did. >> i don't think it will change the outcome. as for this information it is in

the national interests. neil: i wonder if -- denied that republican -- >> -- neil: russian hackers -- >> talked about absolutely. warner: to you think the message that didn't reach voters subject to high unemployment, wisconsin and michigan, that wasn't what did her in. >> there are several factors in winning and losing. neil: she lost, she lost. >> i don't know that you can say that was what have donald trump had lost the election. would you say it was one single factor? neil: my staff does this, lunch hour affects my appetite so i am not hungry and it works like a charm. welcome back. should democrats keep pushing the electors to get this

intelligence think? they cross their fingers and get the electors to change their mind. to ohio state senator and conservatives review jenin borelli. that is the goal here. you want to get them to change their vote. and the states that he won. >> what democrats are doing. they play the russia card. prior to the election over 60% of americans believe hillary clinton is a liar, she was not trustworthy. hillary clinton it ignored michigan, she ignored wisconsin. russia did not tell hillary to be a liar and russia did not tell hillary to ignore michigan and wisconsin. neil: when you talk in ohio, and

it sounds to me like this is there hail mary pass and their hope they change the outcome of the election and remind me in the last two days, and the popular vote. and they change what they were ready to do. and to >> democratic friends are trying to come up with any and all reasons to change the reality which is donald trump did win this election. at the end of the day if there are electors that are interested in information surrounding -- in the electoral system, they certainly have the right to ask for that kind of thing. as long as it is not classified

and something readily available to them, i believe there are two separate issues, one is the issue of russian interference in the democratic system and the other is utilizing russia as a scapegoat for loss. i think we heard and i agree with this that there is bipartisan desire to have investigation whether it is in regular order or some special committee to investigate russia's hacking into or interference in our electoral process. that is important because it is never acceptable for a foreign entity of any kind whether it is state-sponsored or otherwise to come and metal in our business. that is separate and apart from trying to fight electors. if electors want this information they should get what is available to them and they should make up their own mind, but protests and that sort of thing are one step too far. neil: i don't think we are at

the point with whatever investigations we are doing and i am in the camp that says just because the cia says something is so, the cia has made mistakes and i believe it at that but if there is evidence that russia acted alone then get it out there. evidence the russia acted in concert with other known actors in the past, north korea, china, get it out there but no one has taken the leap to say this changed the outcome of the election so i can only imagine the democrats -- >> except harry reid. >> he blamed comey if memory serves. is that their goal? to switch this election and clearly, donald trump won because the russians handed it to him? >> to change the channel, to switch everything up here, what the democrats really need to do is look at why they lost was they are blaming everything and everything for losing the election and not looking at the fact that hillary had a horrible campaign, she had a horrible message with her message did not resonate.

neil: she won the popular vote, she won the popular vote. >> blue-collar workers and a lot of black voters did not turn out as they expected. democrats need to look at what they did wrong. neil: you got to do an intervention with your friends. they are all good people but they need to look in the mirror and there might be outside influences but in the end this was hillary clinton. >> we have a lot of soul-searching to do, not just hillary clinton and her shortcomings as a candidate but we as a party, our identity, our goals, vision and message to the country. i wrote an op-ed a couple weeks ago after the leadership fight in the house for the washington examiner on this issue about how democrats of lost touch with folks that i represent that have been traditionally democrat. we have a lot of work to do to rebuild our party and reach out

and build bridges. neil: thank you very much. we have a lot more of that. so much more on this. i wore this silly outfit. ♪ ♪ ♪ how else do you think he gets around so fast? take the reins this holiday and get the mercedes-benz you've always wanted during the winter event. now lease the 2017 gla250 for $329 a month at your local mercedes-benz dealer.

neil: all eyes on trump tower and the goings-on in the richest and most successful tech titans on the planet gathering to talk with a guy. i don't think they were overwhelmingly for. that is in understatement. connell mcshane at trump tower. connell: we have seen th arrivals, this meeting at the beginning of next hour, the likes of jeff bezos who would fit on the list you are talking about of people who don't agree with mister trump on all issues, he has arrived here of amazon fame and even more so when it

comes to a meeting with the president-elect on different circumstances, washington post fame. this meeting is with tech executives, the stated purpose is to talk about jobs and bring back, transition official, jobs that are overseas to the united states but it is another example in the transition team is focused on this, mister trump sitting down with people, he doesn't necessarily agree with and to that point outside the technology world, his first meeting today was with one of those people, zeke emanuel was on the list of meetings, the first person to come in, the brother of the chicago mayor, but also more importantly one of the architects of obamacare. the idea mister trump would sit down with someone who helped draw up a program he hopes to dismantle. we have that today is another announcement from the transition team could get confused with the tech roundtable but completely different, the strategic policy forum, three new names added to

this list, elon musk from tesla, from pepsi, executives come in from time to time and give the president at the time once it was inaugurated. and a whole broad spectrum of people on this from jamie time and, these three names were added today. we monitor things that this roundtable to the extent we have this afternoon. neil: interesting to see how many go to the microphone. we are getting word ibm ceo is committed to hiring 20,000 folks over the next we 4 years, expected to ask the president-elect to do more in terms of federal retraining programs so this is an blue-collar versus white-collar or any collar initiative.

lucy caldwell on what she makes and all these guys gathering. what do you think? ^ and stick approach, hiring more workers, his part, what do you think. >> it is no secret silicon valley wasn't exactly hugging yard signs for donald trump but he is going to be president and you will see a lot of give and take. ceos like the ibm ceo want to hear donald trump say he understands that the economy is changing and those jobs so many americans feel have disappeared are not coming back. on the other hand what i imagine he will tell them is they need to play ball with americans who turned out in droves who feel they have been left behind in globalization. commitments from leaders like the ceo of ibm, she talked in an op-ed about new collar jobs, a

committed to help forge a job market in which a lot of different people participate in the high-tech marketplace is probably a good sign for tech ceos and donald trump to work together. neil: refresh why the tech guys as a group are not fans of donald trump. why? >> it could be cultural. the reality is in a lot of ways donald trump may end up being more of a friend to that industry then they might realize. he talked about the need for government to get out of the way, tear down the regulations that make it tough. on the other hand they but heads over visas, not clear what donald trump's position is on the visa front and a lot of tech industry folks, it is an essential part of hiring a workforce that is highly talented. neil: a group that is fairly

liberal minded and you would have to be in a cave, not to hear the controversial things donald trump said during the election and that doesn't jibe with them or their customers who tend to be young and liberal. >> it depends what industry you are talking about, but the reality is the guy is going to be president and these other guys are tech ceos because they are pragmatist and want what is best for america and equally importantly they want what is best for their bottom line. that is whether investors want and their shareholders want. you talked about meeting with trump earlier, everyone is looking to drive the ball forward. neil: thank you very much, good catching up with you. we are half an hour from the fed decision. up next, the most impressive resume i have ever seen of anyone watching not only from her role as vice chair of the

fed but leader of the omb widely pressure on both sides. who better to get a read about a new administration's spending priorities than someone who doesn't have an ax to grind especially when it comes to healthcare. what she says, the fix could be in on both parties after this.

neil: all right, less than 30 minutes away from the the big fed announcement whether it will raise rates. most expect it will.

broader stocks, s&p 500, like the dow down but it has been aggressive five weeks put it mildly since the election of donald trump. alice rivlin, former vice-chair and office of management and budget director. thanks for coming. >> good to be here. neil: what do you think, raise rates today? seems to be increasingly a given. i know it is risky. everyone seems to think a lot more hikes coming. do you agree? >> th will certainly raise today. it would be a shock if they didn't. i would be surprised. they have been communicating that for months. everybody is expecting it. i think they will raise today and they will raise some more more in the coming year. how fast depends on economy, how they read the situation with re speck to inflation. i don't think they're worried about inflation although it come back towards their goal of 2%.

i think their primary motive in raising is to get back to something we used to call normal. neil: been a while since we saw that. >> they could move down again. neil: let's say they get up and they telegraph in remarks later on that rather than two rate hikes, expected for 2017, we see four or five. how do you think that would go down? i know you tried not to look at market fallout. i'm sure in your days there and prior you're well aware of it. it was alan greenspan recently celebrated anniversary of iraqal exuberance speech. do you factor that in or try to be blind to that? >> somewhere in between. i don't think the fed will be particularly focused on the market reaction at the moment. they're trying to see how fast to get back to, as i said,

normal. i doubt they will be very specific about their intensions. why should they be? we're in a big moment of uncertainty what this new administration will do and how they will work with congress. fiscal policy could be either very stimulative or not. neil: what do you think of the way the markets seemed to telegraph it will be very stimulative. maybe they have gotten ahead of themselves? last five weeks have been unprecedented. what do you make of that? >> markets are wonderful. that's what the show is about, but, markets don't actually know what will happen. and think there's a tendency to assume when you have a new president, especially kind of maverick president, that what he said he would do is what will happen, but we don't actually know that. he has got to deal with a very fractured congress. neil: absolutely.

>> fractured within his own republican party. not everybody is going to be not everybody is going to be enthusiastic about a big neil: including mitch mcconnell. including mitch mcconnell. you're right about that. you are worried about what he wants to do, i'm sorry, you are interested what he want to do on health care. you have recently written, the president-elect needs to act quickly the to replace obamacare at same time to enact repeal. if he does repeal with vague promise to replace later he will have unnecessary calamity on his hands. what did you mean by that. >> right. well, iç think if they just repeal obamacare, then they have 20 million people who don't have insurance. neil: right. >> the president-elect has said he doesn't want that. he wants a transition. what they are talking about now is to repeal at a future effective date, but i don't think that is good idea at all because it risks losing both

customers, enrollment and insurance companies who are not tear -- some of them not doing terribly well in this market. you might get a meltdown in the individual insurance market. i don't think they want that to happen. it affects a lot of the people who voted for president trump. it affects workers and middle and lower income people who buy insurance in the individual market. and that isn't just the people on the exchanges set up by the affordable care act. it is other people. it could be a mess. i don't think they want a mess. if they don't, then they should work with a bipartisan coalition and say, what are we going to do to replace this? i think there is a good set of things that they could do which would fix some of the structural problems in obamacare and add

some of the republican ideas that have been floating around, and come up with a -- neil: there are a lot of good ones. you outlined a lot of good once. we have it be on our website for people to read and follow. some are very solid ideas. alice rivlin, thank you for taking the time. we appreciate it. >> you're welcome. neil: we're still waiting on that federal reserve decision and rate hike to come. seems to be a given it is coming. the question, how high mortgage rates go? they could inch up and inch up a lore more. are you ready for that? if you have moderate to severe psoriasis, you can embrace the chance of completely clear skin with taltz. taltz is proven to give you a chance at completely clear skin. with taltz, up to 90% of patients

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>> i'm ashley webster from the floor of the new york stock exchange with your fox business brief where markets are simply treading water as we await to hear from the fed just under 18 minutes here on fox business network. it is all about tech, as tech leaders meet at trump tower. look at these tech titans. all major leaders from silicon valley meeting with donald trump but how are the tech stocks done since donald trump won the presidential election? on the upside, ibm up 8%. twitter up, apple up 4%. tesla, elon musk also there today. that stock up 2 1/2% but there's another side to the story. netflix up a third of a percent. amazon down 1 and a third. facebook down 2 1/2%. alibaba group down 8% since the donald trump election.

not everyone joining in the rty. more "coast to coast" with neil cavuto coming right up after the break. ♪

neil: all right. we're about 15 minutes or so from seeing the first rate hike of the year and second since going back to 2006. mortgage rates could quickly follow. greg mcbride, bank analyst.

if you're used to, greg, to very low interest rates and hit with four something mortgage that could become a five something mortgage, in my age range that is still very low. a lot of people gotten used to really, really low, that is going to be an adjustment, right? >> you bet it. neil, neil. just like getting acclimated to the winter temperatures it would take a little while. i think in the meantime you will have some buyers that get squeezed out as rates move up, particularly first-time homebuyers and existing homeowners are reluctant to put the house on the market and move up, what does that do? the limited inventory problem throughout the housing recovery, makes that a little worse rather than having it get better where we thought it was going to ahead now that people are seeing income increases. neil: housing booms i'm told always occur in rising rate environment. i don't know if that is true. but if it is, that is not very

good news for housing, because everything is rising in anticipation of a president-elect trump. what do you think? >> well, i think it is all relative, right? we've been really spoiled by lo. but rates now are back to you know where they were in the second half of last year. so, you know it is not like we're in uncharted waters. we've seen a big move in a short period of time that is based entirely on speculation. speculation about what the policies of the new administration are going to be. at some point reality will have to meet up with expectations or markets could recalibrate again. there a lot of buy the rumor, sell the news here. this big increase in mortgage rates isn't necessarily a harbinger of what is to come. you're getting a lot of movement in a short period of time. we typically see prolonged periods where mortgage rates don't move very much. neil: sorry for the truncated time, greg. we're watching trump tower, goings on there. greg mcbride, his read on

interest rate environment. that could change about 13 minutes. more after this. your insurance company

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neil: you know i'm actually glad you're not here during the break. welcomexd back, everybody. that fed decision now less than ten minutes away. prevailing wisdom seems to be we'll see quarter-point hike in rates. charles payne, charlie gasparino, kennedy as well. kennedy, when if they telegraph more rate hikes to come? >> they are going to. they're trying to keep inflation in check. dissenters on other side will be very interesting. they see unbride daled passion the markets have for donald trump. janet yellen is quite a romantic she will do what we can to that.

i say again, central bank something very un-american. neil? neil: okay. how willing markets reabs beyond quarter point. but if the two rate hikes expected for 2017, turn into five or six, but if they telegraph that? >> if they telegraph two heights i think we hit 20,000 today. if they telegraph three, the market, wishy-washy think about it overnight. four or more the market will go down of the last december they tell grafted four hikes. here we are at last minute. wall street would like to see yellen be cautious this time. perfect scenario, growth without inflation. two more rate hikes sometime in 2017 would be music to ears of wall street. i think we surge upside to the close. neil: we're watching eric schmidt others gathering for the pow-wow. what do you think these guys want? they want to know in the middle of the meeting what the fed did.

>> i think it is a little anticlimactic. everybody knows there will be a hike. she will telegraph one more. there is almost no inflation right now. the bond is trading a lot lower, because it is starting to price in potential -- neil: you could argue she is behind the curve. >> way behind -- central bankers, i hate to sound like her you but central bankers are always behind the curve. when it comes to interest rates, markets for see the future and it's like, if trump does the infrastructure plan, plus the tax cuts, it is massive deficits, possible inflation. but my only problem with the inflation scenario is this, if you look around the world, there isn't inflation around the world. we are still the tallest midget in the room. people still buying our treasurys. no it reason for four rate hikes. neil: every time you do that we lose the midget demo. >> guess what? dow 20,000 next two days. neil: or today. >> depends on the dot plot. charles is absolutely right about that. neil: explain the dot plot.

>> if we get the sense, this is the time where they look in their closet they say, okay we need a good organization strategy. we need baskets. we need new hangers. if they go nuts and hire california closets we'll have several dots, several chances to raise rates next year. if she goes, you know what? let's go to home depot get couple things and that is on more conservative end of plotting rate hikes. neil: so the dot plot is the more dots that you're plotting -- >> more chances you have to -- neil: if that is what they do, and they're worried, of course they have had to dial back moves in the past. anything in this horizon looks like they have to dial back? >> no, no. here's the thing. two hawks leave next year replaced by two doves and donald trump gets two picks. this will be donald trump's fed with or without janet yellen next year no matter what. neil: janet yellen still has couple years to go. >> she is not going to resign. she already told donald trump i'm not going anywhere.

she will play ball. what i'm saying after today the composition of the fed will be so dovish. when maria bartiromo interviewed mnuchin he talked about low interest rates next couple years. we have to build a wall. we have to do infrastructure spending. there will be public/private, donald trump wants rates relatively low. >> speak of mnuchin, treasury should take back the role, the fed whatever -- >> are you kidding me? >> we've spoken about this, neil cavuto and i. not invited to our tea party. talk it up, gasparino. neil: no you didn't? >> i did. neil: she is implying that i agreed with her. >> floated scenario, all i'm doing is lounging on it in your pool. >> don't you remember you had needles sticking out of your arm? neil: this is libertarian argument i do want to get a handle on. if you hate the federal reserve, we're listening to ron paul bemoaning the fed -- >> wrote a great book about ending fed, hashtag end the fed. >> bedtime reading.

neil: do you think, kennedy, is it any better, you think maybe treasury -- another view 535 politicians should handle this? >> maybe this is conversation we have to have. you how do you slice up -- neil: does that get you nervous? >> -- between treasury and congress. the first thing we have to do if we're going to be conservative, everyone here is wearing a suit, we have to audit the fed. neil: liberals wear a suit. >> find out what is going on there. >> getting rid of the fed, of all the dopey libertarian ideas like, you know, legalizing some really bad types of porn, getting rid of -- neil: wait a minute. back to the fed. >> i just, i know what libertarians think about it and they're crazy. getting rid of the fed is one of the dumbest ideas. i'm not saying it doesn't -- neil: depends what you replace it with? >> what will you replace it with? congress? think about how absurd. neil: you're saying treasury. >> treasury department?

>> when you have your appendix taking out what do you replace it with? what do you replace it with? i gave you analogy. when you have your appendix taken out, useless organ, leftover vestige of bygone area, preanatomicly modern humans. >> you know how you print money. >> yes i've raiden the queen elizabeth ii. neil:ç we're dealing with fed. fascinating argument. i had no idea it would be so complicated. charles payne, i think janet yellen, no fan of donald trump, got a hand of that with alice rivlin, no fan of what he wants to do with health care, you better repeal it and quickly replace what you're getting rid of, there will be a argument, philosophical role of argument, donald trump will be a big government guy, right. >> of course, that is what i'm saying. here is another irony, capitalist, free mark at the timeer, that doesn't bother you? >> another idea, donald trump

calling out fed for wanting hillary clinton to win the election of the fact the of matter rates are relatively low. go back 30 years. look where rates have come from. this is ridiculous. neil: a whole generation doesn't remember higher rates. they see a four something mortgage -- >> end of the world. >> neil, think of it this way, fed doesn't control long return. >> look at bank stocks. the banks charge more. >> speaks to our economy, that the economy is at move. neil: where do you guys the think, the market, if the fed didn't keep rate near zero for so long? >> we had a rough, rough eight years. neil: i understand. i think, think it would be -- >> have you ever had friends you had to counsel -- neil: i don't have friends. >> okay. one of your delightful well-behaved sons got into bad relationship with a young woman

who was very toxic and was abusive relationship? i feel that is the kind of thing between wall street and fed. it is kind of gross and dirty. i think we're sick of hearing about their mutual problems. >> what is wall street to the fed? neil: what she is saying is, the fed is kind of doing the market's bidding. >> rates artificially low. >> fed did political bidding of president obama. president obama had no fiscal policy except raising taxes. how did he keep the economy going somewhat? neil: can i switch gears before we hand this off to trish riege riege -- reagan? where will we be with interest rates. >> three times higher. >> 1%, dow at 22 to 2thousand. >> calling it buck and a quarter. splitting difference. i win the showcase showdown today. neil: you have it up to 3.25. >> we're at zero to whatever, yeah. 1%. and i think the dow will be at -- >> you're saying two 25 point

raises? >> i think it will be three. he will inflate the economy so much and economy will grow, you will have to do it. neil: we'll be at 2 1/2%. i have no idea. every time i look at it. all right. fed decision oneathathathathatzí

>> .5 of half a percent to 3/4 of a percent. in the range as expected improving labor markets and rising inflation. first rate hike since december.