happy new year. i'll be right back counting down to the big ball drop. the cost of freedom continues now with david on the place for business, fox. the u.n. has such tremendous potential. there is such tremendous potential, but it is not living up to it. when you see the unit t nations solving problems? they don't. they cause problems. if it lives up to the potential, it's a great thing. if it doesn't, it's a waste of time and money. >> president-elect donald trump not happy with the united nations for condemning our ally israel and not happy with the obama administration for letting it happen. well, now some republican lawmakers calling for the u.s. to cut off u.s. funding to the united nations. should we? hi, everybody, happy new years. welcome to force on fox. let's find out with steve

forbes, bruce. steve, we'll deal with the u.s. role in all this in a moment, but should this be the last straw for the u.n.? doesn't it do more harm to the u.s. and allies than good? >> this is a perfect opportunity to throw down the market. we've withdrawn from organizations like unesco part of the u.n. in the past. we should withdrew from various other organizations in the u.n. that wouldn't have any treaty violations and we've got to send the message out there. we're not going to be a patsy for these things in the future. by the way, just for the record, part of the u.n. is the international monetary fund. another subject for another time but also destructive organization. we shouldn't be using taxpayer dollars to undermine our own interests. >> bruce, let's talk money for a second. we spent $3 billion a year on a united nations the u.s. es. a quarter of the budget. voluntary contributions the last demanded to know how much that

was from the u.s. was it 2010. $7.69 billion not insignificant. >> yeah. i don't think there's anything wrong with doing an audit and if congress wants to come in and examine how we're spending our money. these outbreaks, zika virus, ebola virus, they have aid worker, they have infrastructure. we can't just go isolationist when it comes to global diseases or they will start knocking on our door. >> john, do we need, as bruce says, the u.n.? >> i don't think we need the u.n. and i would love to see president-elect trump defund that which doesn't have our best interests in mind. but he can't do that. i think the better answer is to not appoint a new u.n. head. if suddenly the u.s. is not participating in the u.n., it has no legitimacy. that's the quickest way to shrink it down the size. >> bill franklin, i live in new york city where the u.n. is

based. they get away with all kinds of -- they don't pay their parking tickets. they are out for a good lunch, aren't they? >> yes, i have to agree with you. the u.n. is a haven for israel bashers. it's a big waster of money and they don't pay their parking tickets. it's bad, but don't defund it. it's our last best chance to sit down with -- before we go to war. i don't think we should give it up. >> sabrina, you worked with the u.s. ambassador, you and jean kirk patrick. she was really strong against the bad stuff they do. >> yeah. i think that she would sympathize with trump's claim that they have the potential to do good, but i think we have to be very, very honest about what's really happening there and as you mentioned, she wrote nearly 30 years ago that the u.n. had become a vehicle for legit matizing the plo. the set remains the same but the actors may have changed and they are still a vehicle for delegitimizing israel and standing up against this idea it could be a sovereign, jewish

state. they're a leading ally for us, that's a huge problem. we definitely need to stand up. >> what's worse is when the u.s. starts talking like the u.n. which is what happened this week. we had on our secretary of state john kerry coming out of two hours of diatribe. he did mention some bad stuff that the palestinians do but primarily it was a hit on israel. let's play a little sample of what he said. >> the israeli prime minister publicly supports a two-state solution, but his current coalition is the most right wing in israeli history with an agenda-driven by the most extreme elements. >> but what kerry said led donald trump to tweet, as he normally does, he says we cannot continue to let israel be treated with such total disdain and disrespect. theysed to have a great friend in the u.s. but not anymore. the beginning of the end was the horrible iran deal and now this the u.n. stay strong, israel, january 20th is fast approaching. >> well, i think that

underscores what happened in the u.n. from once was a u.n. instigated thing but a u.s. instigated thing. barack obama had it in for israel from the beginning. now that he's gone out of office, he is letting him vent. john kerry goes along with what he is fed by the state bureaucracy which leaves in the two-state solution. gaza got withdrawal of israeli settlements a decade ago. it's a haven of warfare and missiles. i'm going to be blunt here, anti-settlement means jew free. we should not tolerate that anywhere in the world. >> well, frankly, bruce, what happened in 2005 when israel pulled out of gaza, they pulled all their settlements out of gaza, what happened? hamas came in and began lobbing missiles right into israel. >> well, this idea that president obama doesn't support israel is ridiculous.

he signed a -- there's the funding to defend them as ten years a u.s. tax dollars what is it $38 billion the united states, it wasn't george bush who signed that. it wasn't -- it won't be donald trump. it was barack obama who signed a legislation to protect israel. >> guys, sabrina, i heard you wanting to get in but before i let you go, it's not just u.s. people who are suggesting that this administration's anti-israel. the uk, the prime minister of the uk, theresa may said that she doesn't believe that it's appropriate to attack the composition of the democratically elected government of an ally, so it's not just folks here saying that. >> yeah. i'm sure that they're concerned about being attacked as well. look, i think that this is one of those instances where we can say that words matter and we've been saying that a lot about the president-elect trump, but this is exactly the same thing for john kerry. he used words like radical extremists when talking about

our major allies and a country that is surrounded by actual terrorists, actual extremists. we need to be careful on both sides of the political aisle about how we speak about foreign and domestic affairs. >> bill, it's obviously trump administration will have a very different view of israel. they announced that with the nomination for the ambassador to israel who is very supportive of the government there, however we get an idea of how bad the u.n. is when we see it sort of mocked or parodied in the u.s. >> well, i'm glad that the new administration is a lot more supportive of israel, but i have a question for steve, just how many international fights do you want the new president to pick in order to prove himself? >> steve? pick fights? >> donald trump did not invade ukraine. donald trump did not invade crimea. donald trump did not do the drone business in the pacific ocean committing aggression in the south pacific china sea. donald trump did not withdraw

troops for political reasons. picking fights? the world is picking fights with the good guys. we have to fight back. >> john, let me mention something out of past, not too many people totally defending the u.n. here. in the early 1990s, iraq invaded kuwait. the u.n. put together a coalition george bush the first was involved in that getting the u.n. to eventually kick sa dam out of kuwait. that was a good thing, right? >> well, i wonder. does kuwait have our best interests in mind? i question -- >> good point. >> the notion that we owe the rest of the world their freedom. i think there's a good argument that the world is a less safe place precisely because the u.s. is protector of the free world. what i like about trump is to some degree he is saying it's not the u.s.'s job to fund the defense of some of the richest countries on earth. that's not our job. >> bruce, let me challenge you for a second. other than unesco and there are some charity works which the u.n. does, what do they do that

helps us be more secure as a nation? >> well, if you go back to which you talked about under george bush, it is a body that at least you can find out where other countries are standing. and it puts people on record. if it goes away, we have no as bill said earlier way to promote peace around the world and work with our allies. now, if you don't want it to be a new yorker, this all to be done by e-mail, i guess that's for the next administration. >> quick last word from steve. >> the u.s. is not active in the world we get a replay of the 1930s when we nearly lost civilization. we have to be active. we make mistakes. becomes more unsafe and eventually comes right up to our shoulders. >> coming up, isis calls for more attacks on the u.s., police forces across the u.s. are beefing up security for tonight's celebrations. we need to i'll never find a safe used car. start at the new carfax.com

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day. now back to forbes on fox.

as freedom-loving people around the world get ready to ring in the new year tonight, new signs that isis is plotting attacks. nations already on high alert in the wake of berlin attack on a christmas market. sand trucks will be placed around times square in order to protect rebelers there. all of the security coming with a very hefty price. but steve says it's a small price to pay. how so, steve? >> because if you don't defend your freedom, you're going to lose it. what we're spending today even though it may be inconvenient, even though it will put strains on budget sgs a fraction of what we spend on the past in great security threats especially during the second world war or over the course of the cold war. we do it here and we do it abroad. we don't defend ourselves, no one is going to do it for us, david. >> john, this is the price we have to pay for freedom? >> um, i tend to disagree a little bit here. let's be clear that we can't spend our way out of getting rid of murderous people. if we secure times square, there

are going to be lots of places that aren't secure where terrorists can come in and do damage. i don't like the idea of giving up this much freedom for something that is never going to erase terrorism. >> well, bill, just because we don't like an idea doesn't mean we don't have to face reality. and the reality is that there are too many people who want to do us a lot of harm and are willing to go out of their way to do it. >> we'll spend whatever it takes. on what? are we going to have another million national guards men dressed in jungle camouflage stationed outside every new year's eve party tonight? i don't think that's practical. i think the inevitable result will be that over the stens you objection of the aclu and john camny, this country some day will get a national electronic identity card. >> oh, boy. that's all we need. >> scary but not as scary as terrorism. >> what do you think about that, an id card for everybody?

>> i guarantee they will find a way to hack it. nothing is perfectly secure. in terms of fighting isis, you don't have to put guards everywhere in the world or everywhere in the country, you do more intelligence gathering as we used to do before the new york police department had the handcuffs put on them. you have informers find up what they're up to and very importantly go on offense overseas so you take away the inevitability that isis believes the world's history is going in their favor. >> we'll talk about that overseas, but, john, it's the intel part that bothers you, right? >> i think steve hit on something very important about the national id card. if you institute that, those who mean us harm will work their way around it. i think that's what we're up against. if you secure the airports, if you secure times square, what about different stadiums? what about shopping malls? there's always going to be a soft target for them to hit. my view is i think the much bigger threat to my well being is a government that spends 4

trillion dollars a year allegedly to make me better off. that's a much bigger threat to me. >> let's talk about what new york is spending here for a second, bill. 7,000 police officers who are going to be on duty tonight. 65 sand trucks and 100 other what they're calling blocker vehicles so you can't have what happened in nice or what happened in germany. helicopters, 65 fueling pins, they call these pins in which they fuel the hundreds of us thats of visitors. is that enough, too much or what? >> it will keep the terrorists away from us for a few minutes. a determined suicidal terrorist will get around all those technologies. no, i don't think they can easily get around the technology behind a well-designed id card or behind a well-designed drone. >> what we said when the war in iraq began was it essentially better to stop them over there before we come here, now it looks like we're fighting a war on two fronts. should we spend more over there?

would that keep them from coming here? >> we need to do more overseas and follow through on it. we actually had beaten al qaeda in iraq. we have done away with that when barack obama took office in 2009. we made a lot of mistakes. but we finally got it right in 2006/2007. he threw away that victory needlessly by precipitously pulling out u.s. troops against the advice of our military, against experts in is that part of the world. that's when isis rose up. if you're going to do the job, complete the job instead of letting it be done and pulling back and throwing away these hard -- >> steve, keeping with you for a second, how, specifically how do you complete the job over there? >> first of all, you remove these artificial constraints that are put on our forces over there. those constraints tell the forces of evil over there and potential allies that we're not serious about this thing, call these terrorists what they are, islamic extremist terrorists instead of pretending they're something else. all of those things that tell

people you're not serious remouf and then our allies would be willing to work with us. if we have to put in more ground forces temporarily, we do it. but this halfhearted thing where we put in a few thousands and hope nothing bad happens until after the next election is a formula for telling people we're not serious. isis can be beaten very quickly militarily. >> john, what do you think of that? >> well, i wonder about that. i'm not going to defend barack obama's foreign policy, but my take is republicans and democrats just as they're inept domestically, they're invariably inept around the world. could we beat isis? there's no doubt we could beat isis, but implicit there is thomas jefferson and ben franklin are waiting in the wings to fill in for the terrorists we beat. i don't think that's realistic. once you win there, someone else is going to fill in. if terrorists want to murder us, they always will. i don't want to expand government to stop what they can't stop. >> understood. understood. thank you, gentlemen. very good discussion.

well, before eric host's tonight's new year's coverage, the gang ready to cash it. >> should the left get over it already for the good of the country? plus, why an academy awardc portray ronald ragen in a new movie. we'll explain to you at 11:30. >> good luck tonight, eric. we will be watching. up here first, the new trump team said to be considering private market solutions for the department of veteran's affairs. is that the best way to take care of our precious vets? we debate it coming next.

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i've spent my life planting a size-six, non-slip shoe into that door. on this side, i want my customers to relax and enjoy themselves. but these days it's phones before forks. they want wifi out here. but behind that door, i need a private connection for my business. wifi pro from comcast business. public wifi for your customers. private wifi for your business. strong and secure. good for a door. and a network. comcast business. built for security. built for business. privatizing the v.a. to help our vets? the incoming trump administration considering allowing veterans to bypass the government run v.a. health system if they want to, getting care directly from private doctors or hospitals. john, you say this is the best way to help our veterans. let me just be specific about how much we're paying for it. it's the largest civilian agency in our government. about 370,000 employees, a

budget of nearly $164 billion a year. that's big. >> yeah, why not privatize the v.a. any time you have the profit motive working over anything you get a better outcome. but i would just add why not abolish it? we don't need a v.a. to get health care to our precious vets anymore than we need a social security administration to make sure that people can retire normally. just get rid of it. >> bill, trump is saying something in the middle. he is not saying either total privatization or totally get rid of it. what do you think? >> i'm very much pro choice. i would give veterans the choice of either getting fully covered care and so-so mediocre government hospital or getting a voucher that would cover costs of getting care. >> a voucher like some people suggested for education. steve, we have 144 hospitals in the u.s., veteran v.a. hospitals. 1,200 outpatient facilities, 300 vet centers. what would happen to all of these if we went private?

>> well, they would have to shape up. we would right now report came out about how veterans are being badly treated in terms of opi e opiates and drug addictions like the like. they survive if they provide a service, but having a card, whatever you want to call it a card where they can go to any hospital, let the v.a. compete. we'll see how many hospitals we really need. >> bruce, what's wrong with competition? >> nothing is wrong with to competition. the veterans like the v.a. system. let's say that. >> not all do, bruce. >> no. there have been a number of big examples where that's not true. >> it's an access issue and some cases where you have states or areas that have hospitals that don't have outpatient centers and the obamaed a m ad miminists allowed doctors to get reimbursed for care, private doctors, and that could be expanded if we had lines and issues. >> what's wrong with expanding this obama idea, sabrina? >> look, i don't think that we

need a v.a. we need a competitive health care market that allows veterans to get quality facilities and quality care. but if we aren't going that direction, we need real leadership up there and sort of analogy in my mind is that the d.c. metro. we have paul who has taken this city by storm with his changes. i think if we get someone in there who is willing to fire people, willing to call out when things are being falsified and willing to really make a difference, it's possible we could reform the v.a. properly. >> steve, what about the idea of little bit of privatization and keep the v.a. if people want them? >> you can have that choice. it's very difficult to reform the v.a. they have a complex rules, work rules that almost rival the federal income tax code which makes it very hard for an outsider to come in and shake things up. so the only way you're going to get a real shakeup and get real flexibility in how these institutions are run is with

genuine competition. they don't perform, they ain't going to get the money, period. >> sound like we're coming back to what john was saying. thank you very much, gang. coming up, our informers ringing in the new year with the names they say will have you celebrating all year long. why pause a spontaneous moment? cialis for daily use treats ed and the urinary symptoms of bph. tell your doctor about your medicines, and ask if your heart is healthy enough for sex. do not take cialis if you take nitrates for chest pain, or adempas® for pulmonary hypertension,

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names they say will have you we're back with our informers new year's winners, bill baldwin. >> we'll go out and buy new appliances that work better. >> good suggestion. john? >> when ever i see the new appliances out there, i'm amazed, so i'm with bill. >> twitter? >> they've had problems. why do you like them? >> internationally known brand, some entrepreneur out there knows how to turn twitter into a

major cash cow. >> bill well, this is trading at 18 times losses. i guess the brighter side is if their losses double it would be nine times. >> that's it for forbes on fox. have a wonderful new year. thanks for watching. keep it right here, the number one business clock continues. i don't trust him. i don't believe him. i have no intentions of sitting down with him. i'm going to fight him every inch of the way and i'm going to help show the american people that they, too, cannot trust him, that this is a man that does not live up to his promises. >> a political brawl brewing for 2017. max seen waters saying she won't work with donald trump when he becomes president. she would rather fight him. democrats hurt their chances of getting things done in 2017 and beyond? preponderance happy new year's, everyone. thank you for