story. we have to go with the gold in california. there is gold in them there hills. stuart: lying on riverbeds, treasury revealed. ashley: sparkling in the sunshine. stuart: i'm leaving new jersey. our time is up. charles payne in for neil. it is yours. charles: thank you very much, stuart. we have a very busy two hours to kick off. i'm charles payne in for neil cavuto. right now president trump prepping for a big trip to michigan where he he is expecting to keep a campaign promise. jeff flock is in the plant. reporter: this is a big airplane hangar in yip sill lant at this. these are auto workers and interesting to hear what the president has to say about the fuel economy standards.

by 2025, the average fuel economy for every vehicl be 54.5 miles per gallon. the market is demanding because of cheaper oil and cheap gasoline bigger cars that don't get quite as good fuel economy. ford expedition sales up 40%. gmc yukon up double digits. sales of small cars like for the focus, few sippers down double digits. the automakers make their case to relax the fuel standards. the problem if the president and epa relax them, states like california which have the ability to have their own fuel economy standards could keep their more strict standards. it would force automakers to make two different kind of cars that would not be good.

president says this will help revital ice the auto industry. look at the stocks. they have actually pretty well been revitalized. even today, gm announcing they will retain and add new jobs as well this positive spirit in places like detroit lifting all boats. people can't wait to hear from the commander-in-chief. charles? charles: jeff flock. thank you very much. president trump meeting with ceos of big-three automakers. as ford announces plans to build lincolns in china by 20189. one of the main reasons they want to avoid a 25% tariff. meanwhile the border tax is a hot topic here. are we about to see a very dangerous tit-for-tat over tariffs? narc sear rain know and democratic strategist richard fowler. -- mark serrano. good news for ford they're selling a lot of products in china. bad news they can't export them from here and they have to take

on a chinese partner. that is not the definition of fair trade. >> this is a great case study, charles, what's terrible wrong with our trade in china. it should go to the top of the president's agenda when meets with chinese president xi xinping at mar-a-lago. ford is caught between a wall and a hard place. they have to sell market with the middle income growing in china but at the same time they are forced to take on a partner on the ground in china. this is, you know, a perfect case study example what's wrong, why we have $347 billion trade deficit with china of the president will have to threaten new tariffs just to get them to back off of these tariffs they have already had in place for years. charles: richard, president trump, the first republican to win michigan since 1988, will go there and take a victory lap and probably deliver more good news for the locals there. how do you see it all shaking out? from your point of view, and

from the democrats point of view? >> i tell you i think it is a idea if he can't go after china, listen we're upset at your tariff but at the same time he wants to put a 20% border tax on mexico. charles: why can't he do that? you have got me confused. >> because two different type of policies. you can't zoo say we are against tariffs for us but we're against tariffs when it is against us. that is where the president is. it is teetering balance whatever the trump trade doctrine will be and it can't be campaign slowing dance and one-liners. it has to be larger conversation how he plans to fix trade or equalize trade between the united states and other global trading partners. charles: pete, we do have a tariff already but it is only 2.5%. it es relatively low. a lot of people say these other countries, china and mexico have a value-added tax which is

rebated. in other words when their exporters send something to this country they get money back or get money off of their taxes giving them a distinct disadvantage. >> sure it is government subsidies. this is something that donald trump campaigned against. look, he has been talking about a border a adjustment tax. i don't think he believes in it. i think donald trump knows it is going to be bad for american consumers, bad for american retailers but he is using it on leverage for mexico. he wants them to go back where they were supposed to be on value-added tax period. it is all leverage. donald trump knows how to play the gameike anyone ee, better than anyone else. we'll never have a border adjustment tax in this country. charles: i hope we don't. i'm not for that. i think the idea is pry open foreign markets, not punish american consumers. having said that, mark, i got in early started going through the world trade organization. 39 cases brought against china. most were resolved. there are four new ones from

last year and this year. makes me think i don't have a lot of confidence in the world trade organization or outside entities making this a level or fair playing field. >> exactly, charles. the entry into the world trade organization by china 15 or so years ago really sort of gave them credibility they didn't deserve. this is centrally-controlled economy. they, and their economy right now is sliding back a little bit so they're looking for new ways to stimulate growth. so they are going to do it on the backs of american workers and at the expense of american workers. the reality we can't trust the trade organization. we can't trust china. donald trump is the kind of guy that will sit down with the chinese president, lay out all the issues and will expect some change. they are centrally controlling their economy. their workers are half starved as it is. we need labor reform over in china. it is okay for him to demand these things. they're cleaning our clock. politicians accepted this fate of ours against china for years and years.

trump can change it. he has to threaten tariffs. i don't want to see tariffs either but he has to threaten it. they're throwing tariffs on all sorts of categories on ours right now. charles: go ahead, richard. >> one point here. i understand what you're saying. we also have to find ways to counterbalance with china beyond this conversation with tariffs. what you notice china is investing foreign direct investment all over africa, all over parts of asia, all over eastern europe and the united in africa we're not playing at all besides our dep promat tick work through pepfar. beyond taking them on in tariffs we need to take them on where they're investing all by themselves. they're in a market all by themselves in africa. we're not playing that game. >> richard, how about you and rest of loonie left instead of protesting donald trump in every city in america focus on human rights violations in china. practice what you preach that will put pressure for the consumer. >> wait a minute.

before you connect me to the loony left, remember i was first people when he got elected how we work with africa to counterbalance china. piece in "the daily caller." you should check it out. >> i think that is great but the think the left focus on china and instead of the -- >> does not only mean negotiating in tariffs. focusing on china going to where they are act selling taking on fights. charles: you know what? here's the thing, guys. donald trump has been in office 50 something odd ds. you're right, richard, china is aggressive around the world cutting amazing deals. japan woken up to that. they pledged 25 million to africa. we would be smart to do. we don't have the lead on rest of the world we did before why we have to be tough to protect our markets. we agree on something. blake burman. because he is at the white house. he has news on health care. blake. reporter: hi, there, charles, what you have going on really at the white house two different tracks. first the sales pitch from

republicans. paul ryan within the past few days saying this is binary choice, basically take it or leave it. sean spicer white house press secretary yesterday saying this is it. this is the moment that republicans have been talking about to try to get this done, to repeal and replace obamacare. however, there is also the sales pitch that is most certainly going on here as well. trying to figure out that sweet spot between the white house, republican leadership and conservatives on capitol hill who aren't fully behind what is going on. earlier today, paul ryan, house speaker spoke with maria bartiromo on "mornings with maria" and said look, they are still trying to work through this thing. one of the things that we were told by spicer yesterday is so-called managers amendments are being possibly worked on which would allow tweaks between now and when the bill is put to the floor. and the house speaker told maria also that it could be in the senate, could be up to the folks there to kind of tweak what needs to be done to get this past the finish line.

listen to paul ryan from earlier today. >> i would say just to senators wh it comes to over toheir place they have to voter rama where they can have the different amendments where they want to make changes or improvements to the bill they will have the opportunity because that is how bills become law. we're going through the process here. we feel very good where we are. we are making refinement that make the bill better. reporter: charles, members of the house freedom caucus to get over that 216 number. when you move on to the senate there is still work to do there. bottom line, this is our moment, but we're willing to listen to changes to get this thing done. charles: blake, thank you very much. the blizzard was not the only bust yesterday. last night on msnbc rachel maddow signal attacks return bombshell for president trump. instead revealing a two-page document that he paid millions in taxes from 2005. want to bring back the panel.

mark, what is your take of it. it looked like a huge bust? >> i say with a little bit of shame i actually tuned into her show last night. it was the worst partisan drive i have ever seen on television ever. it took rachel maddow 24 minutes before she even revealed anything. once she did the white house had already peter to the punch. it was a total bust, even among fellow liberals it was among total bust. when liberals act this irrational and unhinged we need to call it maddow disease. charles: all right. hold on one second. >> she is leading the charge for the loony left. charlehy it was a st. it was built up perhaps there was something nefas, dald trump hadn't paid any taxes. he is receiving income from the russians. turns out very successful year for donald trump, 153 million. he paid 38 million in taxes. 25% rate. higher than a lot of his critics including bernie sanders and even president barack obama. so richard, you know, you know, she built it up and a lot of

people tuned in. she will have one great night but a lifetime of regret for this one. >> i don't know if she will have administration probably leaked it, because it showed a year he was paying taxes. >> that is silly. that is just silly. >> why would he not. best political strategy ever. one it shows he paid taxes. two, only three pages. three it is client copy and most important by -- >> violation of the law. charles: let me bring you into this, peter, as i sifted through it and looking at the political implications, for me economically i tell any kid, dream the american dream go for it. as political aspect of it, forgetting about the leak part, alternative minimum tax is something i will talk about tonight on my show it is insidious tax, put in place to go after a handful of families. donald trump paid 31 million for it.

there are millions of americans, relaamericans crushed by the tax that could be the mortgage of the story >> i agree 100% agree with you. the only thing nefarious in trump's account what trump's accountant was doing. you don't pay 25% taxes. bernie sanders pays 13%. that guy has got to go. that is only thing wrong. charles: richard, will they continue to pound on this, the left, the loony left, i thought that was a little disrespectful. plus after last night you guys need a boost. what now? what is the angle on president trump as businessman? i want to see 40 years tax returns. >> she has been a government employee the whole time. >> getting elected. the man got elected -- >> wait a minute. i don't think he is going to do it with that being said the intelligence committee, a lot of things we want to see. this tax return wasn't one of them this was a big nothing burger. i think that you know rachel

maddow overplayed her hand. charles: mark, your last word. >> corporatist elites are behind this they can't learn. >> donald trump is behind this. >> rachel maddow leading the charge. i want her to continue to do it. it plays into donald trump's hands and strengthens his support among americans who were left out in the cold for eight years in economy. charles: whether it was a trap or not, rachel maddow went for it. that is what happened. she got caught. the fed meeting right now. decision coming down shortly. the big question, will yellen and company, what are they going to hint about for the future? we know about today. wall street on pins and needles how many rate hikes may happen in 2017. we'll have a the story right after a quick break.

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charles: the justice department announcing charges against four people in connection to the massive yahoo! breach. the suspects include two russian security officers and two hackers. one suspect was arrested in canada. they are accused of stealing the personal information of hundreds of millions of users. we're awaiting a key decision right now from the federal reserve on interest rates. we're expecting a hike today but could there be more hikes in the offing? that is what investors are really anxious b.

want to go to lori rothman on the floor of the new york stock exchange with details. lori? reporter: charles, the first tip today when you're listening to fed chief janet yellen and reading the accompying ste of the fed decision which will likely be for a interest rate hike, whether or not they ditch the word gradual. in the past that statement has said expect interest rates to rise gradually. so that is the key thing. couple other factors, the economy is doing pretty well.w t friday, february was good, wages, non-farm payros, came in stronger than expected. inflation. inflation on annual level or rate is moving ahead of fed expectations. we did get the consumer price index for the month of february which was okay. it improved a little bit. but if you look at cpi year-over-year, it is above 2%. as you know the fed's inflation target is 2%. there is another indicator we follow, called the price consumption expenditures.

the fed's preferred so-called, preferred inflation gain. that is running at 1.9%. so just a tick below what the fed is looking for inflation. then of course, politics. a lot of optimism, especially here on wall street for how president trump will reform tax policy and another key thing today for miss yellen, fed chief yellen when she gives her comments today, does the press conference, how she responds to questions how the trump economic policy will affect monetary policy. back in december, she kind of deflected, didn't give a definite answer but still really key to hear how the fed is planning on that. treasury yield 2.57, down a couple of basis point. that's a key barometer. after we get the information 2:00 p.m. this afternoon, what wall street thinks will happen to rates in 2017. back to you. charles: lori, thank you very much. president trump's budget is due out tomorrow.

charlie gasparino is reporting rift among high-ranking staff. once again the same idealogical fault lines? >> i would say yes and what we will see here in the budget, and it will be interesting to see what survives and what doesn't. does the border adjustment tax survive this? does a carbon tax make its way in? those are things debated inside -- charles: who is pushing those things. >> i will tell you in a second. those are the things being debated. it is the biggest showdown yet of the trump administration. a lot of people thought it was reince priebus and steve bannon. that was on more picayune personnel matters. this is between steve bannon, national advisor, nationalist, former chief of "breitbart," with gary cohn number two inside the administration would consider a liberal. how he got in there is whole another story. donald trump has interesting and unique management style. he had a gut feeling from what i

understand about cohn, about how he is. wanted to bring him in. now you see the idealogical fault linesman fessing themselves inside of the budget -- charles: let me ask you though. is that unusual? particularly when you surround yourself with ceo's, generals, a-type personalities, alpha males? president trump dealt with this situation before in private life. ultimately he is going to be the one that makes the final decision. >> yes. i think when you throw in key mick positions and power positions people of such diverse idealogical persuasions. you know, in the obama administration, i don't think there were any subside economists around, right? charles: right. >> in bush, in gw bush administration i don't think there were any far left liberals or very few in policy-making positions. what you have here two people

diametrically opposed the way the government should be run. steve bannon, a nationalist, not a ee trader. for lower taxes and less government. gary cohn, a free trader who is essentially a globalist. charles: but he likes low taxes too. there are things that tie them all together. >> we don't know that. charles: really? >> i think gary cohn would like lower business-related taxes but not on other issues. here, let's be real clear, gary cohn supported president obama's, the first four years. he only changed afterwards after obama attacked banks with regulations. he supported universal health care and because obama ran on taxes on the rich, he supported higher taxes. charles: so then how do you see it shaking out? because right now i think betting is still against the border adjustment tax. i haven't heard much about a carbon tax although i know president trump has unique ideas on the climate that may be different than traditional

republican orthodoxy. >> you hear no on the border adjustment tax. charles: absolutely. >> that would be from pressure from congress. tom cotton and a lot of states where there is high retail presence don't like the border adjustment tax because it hurts walmart and retailers. charles: business roundtable was not keen on that. >> trump is not a big guy on the business roundtable. i don't know. i just can tell you this, if you look at trump publicly, gary cohn and steve bannon are both there all the time. it is not like he is taking sides just yet. here is the thing -- charles: we'll know a lot more when the budget comes out, right? >> we'll know a lot more as it manifests itself. here is another thing. this thing has a potential for blowing up into a showdown where one of them leaves. there is no doubt about that, given personalities involved here. they both -- we should point out there is whole write-up about this on foxbusiness.com which gets into the nitty-gritty, these are two let's face it, two wicked alpha males who have very

strong opinions about the way this country should be run and they're that close to the president. charles: by the way the trump administration brought on another goldman person. >> i saw that. charles: you have a dep hety treasury secretary. >> unlike gary cohn, donovan is a long-time republican. he was a big romney supporter. charles: right. >> they all have similar dna. charles: same kind of dna hopefully they have great ideas and know how to put a blueprint together to get the economy going. >> they make a lot of money at goldman. hopefully they make a lot of money for everybody else. charles: we learned that today. rachel maddow promoted it inadvertently. look at google stocks. do you own the shares? i will not rub it in. it hit a all-time high earlier before dropping. we'll get to that on "making money," 6:00 p.m. on fox business. coming up house ways and

means committee chairman kevin brady will preview that big budget. we expect that from the white house. stay here. you're watching fox business network. maybe you should've done more research on them. for drivers with accident forgiveness, liberty mutual won't raise your rates due to your first accident. liberty mutual insurance. due to your first accident. you may sometimes suffer from a dry mouth. that's why there's biotene. and biotene also comes in a handy spray. so you can moisturize your mouth anytime, anywhere. biotene, for people who suffer from dry mouth symptoms.

charles: two feet of snow. really? overall, at least in new york city, many are calling this snowstorm a dud. we're hearing reports that the fed knew it wouldn't be as bad but they didn't say to at least publicly out of abundance of caution. this has a lot of people raising questions whether or not to trust future disaster forecasts. the boy who cried wolf. meanwhile conservatives cruz, and paul are joining a rally that says promptly repeal and reprays obamacare. gerri willis with what to expect. hi, there, charles. big gathering, call a day of action sponsored by folks at freedomworks a conservative organization. front and center people from

congress not liking the ryancare so-called bill, the bill to repeal and replace obamacare. they want to repeal all of it in one fell swoop. one of the major folks speak tag, rand paul. what has he says about ryancare? it is obamacare light. it's a bandaid rather than a fix. it's a missed opportunity. woe should keep the promise to the american people, his words, not mine, to repeal ryancare. the two bills, one from ways and means and energy and commerce both go to the budget committee tomorrow. what will happen there? they will bring the two bills together into one piece of legislation. bottom line the folks on the budget committee really can't change it a ton but they can add things they suggest to the rest of congress to also put in that bill. so we'll be watching to see how folks vote. obviously the folks from the freedom caucus voting against it. this gives house republicans

just one vote margin of error here if they lose anybody else. they are in big, big, trouble. what is interesting, charles, i wonder if you agree, if you stand back and look at the totality of the republican bill that has been put forward by republican leaders in congress, it really does a lot of things that conservatives love. net-net, it lowers spending by the federal government by 1.2 trillion. think about that. a cutback in the obamacare entitlement means $1.2 trillion not spent over 10 years by the federal government. it reduces the deficit by 337 billion. i mean, you got to think that at least some of this should be appealing to these guys but they have all kind of complaints. mike lee says it was rushed. ted cruz says, hey, i don't like the fact that premiums are rising. lots of complaints. you will hear it all about 1:00 when this thing getting underway. charles? charles: agree, there seems to be something in there but to

your point not enough for really dyed-in-the-wool fiscal conservatives who really, really are sticking to their guns at least so far. gerri, can't wait to hear how it all goes. appreciate it. >> you're welcome. charles: meantime the white house says the health care plan will be open to negotiation. mitch mcconnell says the senate is open to changes as well. a former cbo director dan crippin how this shakes out. seems in the last 24 hours, dan, less sabre-rattling with the republican party, understanding hey, the world's watching us make the sausage and the outcome could be, could have serious impact on the party as well as the nation? >> i think that is absolutely right, charles. the first vote of any, first major vote of any administration is very critical. of course it will portend the future both for the republicans and congress and equally importantly the president himself. when i worked in the senate, ronald reagan's first votes were

fortunately were successful, put him on a track to be successful legislatively. you're absolutely right it is a very important note. charles: it has been noted that the lasted a administrations tried to tackle this ended up in the long run hurting their political parties. so, there is some concerns that maybe it was rushed. there wasn't enough conversation beforehand. there has been a lot of quibbling about this three-stage process. you were, you were with the cbo. what do you make of the attacks on your former agency, that it is really faulty and it could be played and gamed and people saying it is irrelevant? >> i object to that and i'll tell you why more in just a moment but let me start with saying some of things they're not saying. cbo estimates are non-partisan. they weren't done to favor any party or the other. they're all professionals and these are hard things to do. there's certainly a lost leeway

in here for what the numbers might be and cb recognizes that itself in talks at the end of their report which most people probably haven't gotten too of uncertainties involved with the estimates. there are a whole lot of assumptions. equally important the states have a great deal of control how this new plan will work and how many people will be covered. cbo will always be relevant. they need a neutral score keeper and can't rely, even if it is this administration or any other, can't rely on administration estimates to run their process. charles: the assumptions i think what people have the problem with. the cbo originally assumed all 50 states would go into medicaid expansion and they based certain future, their modeling based on that one assumption thus far hasn't come through true. so it gives a lot of people pause when five million people come off of medicaid and two million become off of employer-based health care because of that new plan which,

it doesn't seem to jibe. why would that happen? >> well the medicaid estimates of course are different if you will but medicaid, recall, charles, was the biggest piece of all of the insured versus uninsured, of those we count now as having gotten coverage, 19 million seems to be the most common kind of number. 11 million were medicaid, people who got coverage under expansion and other things. so medicaid always has been the biggest piece of this. making those assumptions is very hard to do and they have to take their estimates and do their analysis off current law. they don't have a choice and shouldn't be in the business of making political determinations. there were seven states thinking about expanding before this bill was introduced. some of those seven may still expand. those who had expanded may take it back but they may not. charles: right. >> so it is really a tough business especially when you're restricted again as they should

be, to current law and then basing this bill, measuring this bill versus current law. charles: yeah. it is tough and thankless task, that's for sure. dan, thanks for coming on this afternoon. appreciate it. >> thanks, charles. been a pleasure. charles: president trump by the way, that's him, at least that is air force one. he just arrived in detroit. soon he will head to the meeting with auto workers and executives right outside of the city. he is expected to make announcement about easing fuel efficiency standards. we're all over it as the news comes in. small business optimism is positive but that news comes with a major warning. hear it yourself right after this. ♪

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charles: president trump just arriving in detroit. he is about to head to autonomous driving facility there.

owe will make comment. he is holding a big meeting with the big three automakers, easing fuel regulations among the big topics there. but a border tax is on everyone's mind. stocks have soared under president trump and so has business optimism. business roundtable showing executives are more optimistic about sales and hiring. national federation of independent businesses which are small businesses reporting a similar surge in optimism, but warning a big drop in confidence if health care and tax discussions continue without action. to that group's president and ceo, juanita duggan. thanks for joining us. i thought that was a pretty clear warning if you will to washington, d.c., don't blow it! >> well, this is an historic first opportunity for the administration and the republican congress to make good on the agenda that the american people and small business owners voted for this year. this bill, the obamacare repeal and replace. is going to eliminate the

massive taxes and individual and employer mandateusstngling small business since the beginning. and you might remember, that nfib was the group that sued to overturn obama care at the supreme court. i think this is our i told you so moment. everything we said would happen, happened. the obamacare health market is in shambles. charles: it is in shambles. you did call it. what we saw too is a amazing slump in entrepreneurship and the kind of businesses that ultimately grow big enough to be part of your organization that we consider heartbeat of american commerce. small business took the biggest hit on this, didn't they? >> they most certainly did. and the worse part it limited choices for small business owners and employees. we're not just talking about small business owners. small business has half the payroll in the night. when you mess up the health care market for small business owner, you really hurt those employees. charles: juanita, the business

roundtable, your larger brethren had their business conference yesterday. they laid out three things that must happen to propel the economy. in addition to repealing and replacing obamacare. they talked about tax reform. they talked about infrastructure spending and repatriation is on the list as well. do you rank any of the potential items on the trump agenda as the most important that you would love to see happen sooner rather than later? give me one second because we're watching as president trump departs air force one. he is in detroit right now. he has a lot of meetings lined up. it is really exciting today. we must remember donald trump was the first republican to win the state of michigan since 1988. it's a big moment for him and all the people that voted for him as well. all right, juanita, let's pick up on there. what is the most important item next on the trump agenda that you would like to see go through? >> you asked if we poll our

members. we certainly do every month in the small business economic trends report we've been doing for 40 years. for the last 30 years our members have been extremely consistent. it is tax reform and lower taxes, lowering health care costs and regulation. and we think these are the three things that this president has agreed to champion. he already has done an enormous amount of regulatory reform. if you look at number of executive orders, it is quite impressive. congress agreed to do tax reform for him. the biggest problem for small business in this tax reform plan is we need parity between rates of small businesses and large corporations. charles: right. >> that is going to be one of our biggest priorities for nfib. charles: that has been a big, big sticking block. i think a lot of politicians overlook that. i do have to ask, in detroit today, a border tax or border adjustment tax is one of main topics. how does your organization feel about that?

>> we don't take a position on boarder taxes. our main priority is get the small business tax rate down and they have parity between small businesses and large corporations. we'll not allow exxonmobil to have higher tax rate or he lower tax rate, excuse me than the auto mechanic on the corner. that is just not fair. charles: before i let you go, juanita, i mentioned how entrepreneurship and small businesses really spiraled almost in a death spiral the last eight years, particularly the last four. do you sense beyond your optimism index that you've seen, do you sense this kind of groundswell rejuvenating or even a renaissance for small businesses? >> certainly we think so. the optimism index is at an all-time high and whenever we see that in our small business economic trend report, about three month later we actually see the capital expansion and the growth and the hiring. we think we're very strong harbinger of a recovery. so we would agree and hope

that's the case. charles: congratulations, juanita. really appreciate your time this afternoon. president trump, meanwhile his budget is due out tomorrow. stick around. we'll give you a sneak-peek. house ways and means committee chairman kevin brady, you see him right there, is here also. president trump's tax returns, reportedly publicly last night. the big question, does anyone care? the judge will weigh in himself. he is next.

charles: the state department just issuing a warning for college students asking them to stay away from certain parts of mexico this spring break where rampant crime has made travel dangerous for americans. meanwhile dozens of high-profile twitter accounts in europe have been hacked in a large-scale cyberattack connected to a dispute between turkey and netherlands. twitter stock down nearly 3% right now. it was rachel maddow's big tax reveal a bust? many on the left hoping msnbc had a trump tax bombshell. instead, what they learned how president trump paid 38 million in taxes in 2005. my reaction on twitter to this, getting a lot of attention.

i heard rachel maddow opened al capone's vault and found out donald trump paid millions in taxes in 2005. [laughter] but it was this tweet, getting a lot of attention from the white house, msnbc's joe scarborough suggesting that the president is behind the leak. now the president's attorney demanding proof for that claim. all rise, the judge is here. judge andrew napolitano. >> man as you were saying during the break everybody demands proof of everything these days. charles: it's nuts. there are some different questions though with respect to how she got these and, you know, some of the theory is because it has his stamp on it, client copy it, had to originate from president trump himself. >> it did have the stamp on it. you and i have seen that stamp in our own lives when our accountants give that to us, sort of a standard stamp. i don't know how she got it. if it came from the irs, whatever human or group of humans did that, committed a felony. if they put it into the mail, the president's tweet said in

the mailbox. i don't know if that means u.s. postal service. if they put it into the u.s. postal service, that is second felony, using the federal government's own mail system to deliver a stolen document. charles: right. >> there is nothing in the government short of top secret classified secrets that is corded the legal protection of, as irs returns. so if this came from the government, that thief committed a crime. obviously it is a, not a crime for the publisher, who has received it, in this case rachel maddow, and nbc, to publish it, because it is a matter of material interest to the public. you have and i can publish it and talk about it openly on fox news. how she got it? i don't know i don't know that we'll ever know. it backfired. it showed that the president is patriotic, tax paying and rich, all these things he claimed to be. charles: the guest earlier said he might look for new accountant

because he paid too high of a rate. most people making that kind of money would not pay that kind of rate. we've seen comparisons to mitt romney and other folks in that stratosphere. 25% is relatively high rate. >> yes. charles: it really is. more than bernie sanders paid. it is more than barack obama's paid. but what about joe scarborough, these allegations? again it is not just that, we live in a world now of allegations thrown like hand grenades. >> scarborough's allegations are very interesting, if his allegations are true, it is no crime. that is if the president himself authorized this to be leaked, and make it look like someone pilfered it, he can do that. he is the one person that is not obliged to keep it secret. charles: what if the president did not authorize it and scarborough saying it is obvious in his mind that it was leaked, does he have to offer any proof? is he --

>> i don't know what proof joe -- charles: does this hurt the president's image enough or is it enough attempt to hurt the president's image that he has a claim -- >> against scarborough? charles: yes. >> no.