you differentiate of them? polar opposites but they're riot stuart: dictatorship for venezuela on our doorstep. you will hear a lot more about this and the days to come. our time is up, regrettably, neil, it is yours. neil: when you say regrettably, you seem to telegraph this bunion head is coming up. stuart: look, we've done three hours. i would love another three hours but they won't give it to me. it's yours. neil: but i did enjoy your memories of earth day. you were there for the first earth day. tell us what it was like. stuart: i was watching the bbc, and it was in black and white, and some kids were burr herying a car in california. oh, i remember it well. neil: wow. see you don't get those opportunities on basic cable. i appreciated that. the images are there. they can't be let go. thank you very much, my friend. we're following the same rally

you were. we're hearing there could be other catalysts. heard what financials like american express a key component in the dow. but we're getting wind they could be cobbling together a potential health care deal. we don't want to get ahead of ourselves here but connell mcshane has the latest what could be the ingredients, the second attempt replacing and repealing obamacare. what are you hearing, buddy? reporter: neil, there is definitely progress being made in the house. the market is hearing that as well and liking what it is hearing with the 143-point advance in the dow. there is definitely still work to do. gop sources told fox business, they're cost with the new amendment they could get as many as 20 additional votes. but senior gop sources they don't know if they will end up with enough. if they end up with enough to get it passed. congress comes back monday. back in session monday. they don't have scheduled time,

timetable for a vote but they do say these sources progress is being made on health care. that is helping out the market. a draft proposal is making the rounds, states obtain a waiver from the federal government to do away with certain protections from the obamacare. in order to get the waiver the states would have to prove they bring costs down. that is part of it. there is more to it. health care reform is still today, very much on the table. so we'll keep an eye on this. with fox business being told 18 to 20 nos from last time around, no votes could turn to yes. the emphasis is on the could there. republicans were purported to be more than 30 votes short. even if you get 20, doesn't necessarily mean you get it passed. there is domino effect. you talk about all this time, if you do get health care done makes it more likely an aggressive tax reform package gets passed. one feeds into the other that is

the talk today in d.c. neil: wondering connell, if you get those conservative votes from freedom caucus members, do you lose the tuesday group, the moderates who weren't keen on concessions being made last go round to the conservatives? reporter: we have to track this today, the emphasis on the could in terms of getting those votes and also on the could whether or not this means this would get passed. if anything is proven here, the president to quote partially what he said, health care can be complicated. it still is. even if they're making progress on one front, let's watch the rest of the day for any comments coming out of tuesday group. we'll see. neil: charlie gasparino will have more developments. "wall street journal" is reporting that anthem is making preliminary filings to indicate it will still be so-called part of the so-called aca plans in 2018. there were concerns that aetna

and other was jettison. the eye to cobble together a deal, they will try to get something going. i want to bring in retired lieutenant colonel allen west. a former congressman as well. from that vantage point, if you don't mind indulging me on this health care stuff i want to pick your brain a little bit, allen. very good to have you. it is always this balance satisfying the conservative members without ticking off the moderate members. do you think if they cobble together a health care deal, that that does speed up the time frame for tax deal? >> well, good to be with you, neil.that is a very important part of it but i would also ask why did they take a two-week vacation when we had pressing matters that are there? the american people and markets are looking for economic relief. the most important thing about health care reform has to be repealing 20 new taxes of obamacare. making sure that americans don't see a rise in their insurance premiums which right now the actuaries are out there working

on those rates for the coming year of 2018. neil: do you find that some republicans are frustrated though that it has to be this way? the health care thing has to be first? i certainly understand the math behind it, congressman. that you need that, you know, trillion dollars over 10 years as a new revenue base, which to start making tax reform that much easier, but they're still significantly a part of this issues. maybe they resolve them. had they gone in tax cuts, there was much more broad agreement. what do you think of that, if this fails, the attempt cobbling together health care fails, it is similarly going to do tax cuts? >> you're absolutely right. back in november, december, after the election results you should have military tiger team, sits down looking at health care reform, looks attacks reform.

looks at the right type of parliamentary procedures that have to happen. american people don't understand what budget reconciliation is. they want to see these things done. when you have new congress sworn in these first 100 days, they should been able to get right at this. let's be understanding that it took democrats some 18 to 19 months to push through the affordable care act, obamacare. if the republicans are trying to push through something that is not well-thought through within a month or two, i mean it could have some severe consequences and ramifications especially if the new acutarial prices come out next september of 2018 and the american people don't see a decrease in those insurance premiums. neil: all right. colonel, thank you very much. i apologize for this breaking news development but i would thought i would pick your brain about it. who knows congress better, so thank you, sir. meantime i want to let you know we're getting a little bit more on "the wall street journal" on this insurance sort of offer here, still participate in the aca exchange plans for 2018. if you have the likes of cigna

and aetna and anthem saying all right, we won't go, we won't quit these things, that could provide a financial bulwark behind the exchanges so that you still have those participating, you still have a framework which people can go to, so they don't lose coverage. so that delicate balance that exists here, it's all in how they execute this and details of this, and whether insurers will gouge you to stay a part of this. but, the early read seems to be that they are inching, that is republicans are inching closer to a deal on health care, repeal and replace method. that will garner more votes. they say the latest reports, about 20 votes, with would just be enough to get squeaking passage in the house n the senate they start from scratch essentially but it could mean that tax cuts, really the wish of wall street, can materialize maybe not by august but certainly this year.

one of the reasons the dow is up 157 points on this. a lot of us are charging like crazy on these things. obviously we have the apstate for more buying. -- appetite. we'll keep eye on widening target for terrorists or those that foster or condone it. secretary of state rex tillerson says iran is well on the way becoming another north korea if we don't rein them in. the retired officer sam pettis on that. what he makes of that of your coming here. if syria uses chemical call weapons we're back in there again and escalation of tensions i iran and north korea. do you think we've spread too thin? >> we put ourselves completely behind the curve. we allowed iran out of the box.

we watched as syria spirals into chaos. we have work to do to dig out from the hole we're in. neil: what do we do to get out? some are looking at this saying that secretary of state was just claiming the emperor has no clothes and iran can't be trusted. others say deals which we signed these provocations were not part of that deal. if we abdicate that, we lose something. what do you think? >> i think the iran deal is a disaster on its face. it will not stop them from getting nuclear weapons. but immediate problem here the price we paid to sign that deal allowing the iranians out from under sanctions and pressure, basically walking away, from controlling them has allowed them to spread chaos all over the middle east. from syria to lebanon, to yemen, they are on the rise, and that is a completely destablizing force in the middle east right now. neil: i found it interesting

when i was watching a lot of media coverage on this, hey, u.s., we can't renege on our word. never mind the fact it is distinctly possible we're talking about trust with a nation like iran. it seems like a collective read here that we have more to lose in the global community than iran. what did you make of that? >> we kept the iranians, basically we pursued a policy of containment and kept them in a box for basically in 30 years. in the course of eight years of barack obama we abandoned that policy, a disaster. the deal is a disaster. there is no way on earth we should continue to abide by the terms of a deal that is incredibly damaging to american national security. neil: what do you think we do? leaving iran out of it, north korea argued that our presence in korean peninsula alone is provocative act. they plan to continue missile tests. one idea bandied about a retired general told me we should shoot

down the next missile test and shoot down batteries which they launch in north korea. the russians have said, the chinese have said, those are very provocative acts. what do you think? >> so i think there is probably a range of things we have to be prepared to do in the short term. for instance, if we think they have a nuke they can put on missile, they're prepared to use it, we'll have to do our best to take out those weapons, but the real solution is long term. that starts in beijing. the only reason pongyang continues to exist as communist dictatorship because of the chinese. we have to make clear of the chinese, status quo is no longer acceptable. neil: presidents of all stripes have been urging that in the past. sometimes i begin to think, maybe the chinese can't control -- this guy is a nutcase and they can't control the nutcase? >> the first thing we do we hope they still have the capacity to apply considerable pressure. this is not a unique situation

where countries create groups or sponsor client state. neil: yeah. >> exactly as you have described all of sudden they find out the dog is off the leash and they can't control him. that will be a truly nightmare situation. neil: well-put. sam faddis, retired cia operations officer. good seeing you. >> thank you. neil: look what happened corner of wall and broad. dow up smartly. financials are a very big catalyst here but did not hurt matters from growing press reports, that republicans are closer, i stress closer, to cobbling together a health care replace deal on health care. that is something near and dear wall street want to see. they have been let down before, but right now they are liking what they see. moody's economist mark zandi on the stimulus to come with that. after this. ♪

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you know how that goes. the wireless subscriber decline was something the street didn't see. that is particularly hitting the stock although it is off its lows. the dow is off collectively -- is up collectively 156 points. all that has to do with all this fuss maybe republicans are cobbling together a deal on health care. we have moody's economist mark zandi is here. he famously predicted there would be a crash if donald trump got elected. you about he came back -- >> you pay attention to what i say. at least my wife is at amex. neil: tell me about it. tell me about it. it is interesting, i read about the trump call, you're certainly not alone, but now what is your view where things are? >> i think the economy is is fine. i think the economy, six, nine, 12 months ago was on fundamentally sound ground. i think it is on fundamentally sound ground. i think it would take a lot to

derail the train. i think the economy is in great shape. neil: first quarter, it is not in great shape. that is anomaly of first quarters, it could be under 1% f that is, would it raise concerns? >> it shouldn't. that is statistical, seasonality stuff. shaving a point off q1 gdp growth. we were growing 2% last year. neil: republicans argue we could grow a lot more with a tax cut. one of the reasons dow advance, there are many, they clear the health care hurdle and repeal and replace effort going that has more support that clears the way as well for tax cuts. are you in that camp that tax cut gives you that growth? >> i think a corporate tax cut largely revenue neutral at least on dynamically-scored basis, that is good policy. that makes our businesses more competitive.

also our corporate tax code really penalizes multinationals. it is kind of a messy systems. neil: don't a lot of small businesses pay at prevailing individual rate? >> they do. neil: don't they need one at individual rate? >> if we could figure that one out. that gets you into the personal income tax code. that is very complicated. neil: you would be against touching personal rates. >> if you could figure out in a way that makes it also revenue neutral. neil: what does revenue neutral mean to you? i have some on this show including espouse supply-sider view, art laffer, saying it is okay to run deficits in the near term because you get revenue and then some in the longer term, so don't worry about it. you say? >> well there are economic benefits to cutting taxes, no doubt about it on the corporate side and on the personal side. so there should be some benefit, they say dynamically-scored benefit to cutting taxes. neil: because you don't see the dynamic of that right away, right? >> it takes time but we need to be prudent.

you can't go overboard, it's a forecast, it is a prediction. neil: right. >> i think arthur laffer for example, i wouldn't go down, as far as he would go because he think this is would generate enormous supply side benefits. of the economy would be so much larger -- neil: i think he prefaces that by saying if the tax cut is significant. >> yeah. i, at this point, that argument kind of resonated with me back when ronald reagan first got involved, marginal rates were so much higher. neil: we didn't nearly have debt or deficits. >> exactly. that deficit was 35%. neil: that kind of hamstrings. >> it does. we need lower corporate tax. so i, we should take this in steps and make it manageable. lower the corporate tax rate. make the corporate tax system more sane. a lot of things to prove it. neil: right. >> let's do it in a way, we don't have to get all the way to revenue neutrality. we can count on some economic benefits, but let's be prudent about it.

we do, that is a win. neil: i have read, this will be shortly, with our own people here, what is keeping the dow so strong? you know, while off the levels, s&p is only 2% or so from the march 1 highs. what is doing it? >> he well, ask yourself if you sell stocks, what will you do with it? but it in deposit account at zero? no. put it in long-term bond? worried rates will rise. no appreciation there. put it into housing? we got creamed by housing. there is a question the stock market feels overvalued to me. the p-e's are high. neil: there was a day we were worried about protecting what we had. do you think it is getting a little too devil-may-care? >> the other thing going on, boomers, folks in the 50s, hanging out in the equity market to a larger degree than previous

generations at this point in life cycle. many are not prepared in the retirement. they can't get return in the deposit account. they're not in the housing market. economy is sensitive to swings in the stock prices. particularly with a lot of red on the screen, boomers will pull back very quick lift i worry about the equity market. it feels highly-valued. neil: quickly the federal reserve is out of the stimulus business, balance sheet, 4 trillion plus they will unwind. only game in town would be something fiscal, right, to goose things? >> it is not about goosing anymore. we're at full employment. 4.5%. neil: we're at meager growth. we have to get used to that? >> no. we have been talking about long-term sustained growth. corporate tax reform. immigration reform. we should be -- neil: what is acceptable growth level for you? >> anything better than two is acceptable. i'll take it. corporate tax reform under the

best circumstances will not take you to three, certainly not 4 but take you to two, 2.3. neil: that is substantial. >> over 10, 20 year period that is substantial with the debt. neil: the markets might be happy if they see it debt stop growing? >> that is why it would be nice, do corporate tax reform, we have to be prude didn't about it. we have to do it in a way that it doesn't add to deficits and didn'ts even on paper. neil: but that argues for tinge tinge -- tinkering with the tax code. >> top business rate is 35. no way to take it to 15. neil: how about 20? >> 20 is tough unless you have border adjustment tax f you don't have, that is tough. neil: okay. >> 28. that is doable. we can accomplish that. see how that works out five, 10 years down the road. neil: donald trump, how is he doing? >> donald trump, he is not doing much. that goes back to derailing of the train. here is what i worry, focus on

corporate tax reform great. focus on infrastructure great. it is anti-globalization stuff that makes me really nervous, particularly immigration. if you want to go from 2% to 3, to 4, we need more immigrants, not less. we are at full employment. skilled workers. very simple stuff like all these kids come to our universities, we train them send them back. why are we doing that? why not give them a visa to stay and work here to create jobs here. i hire these kids. in two to three years they will say zandi is an idiot, start their own business. neil: that is what the president tweeted. zandi is a loser. >> that sounds right. neil: mark sandy, thank you very much, moody's chief economist. my buddy charlie gasparino with breaking news out of washington with a revived health care push, right? >> right. the market is responding postively to headlines this thing may get passed. get back to your conversation with mark zandi.

if health care gets passed there are savings there, you can take corporate tax rate down, 28%, he likes. he works for ratings agencies, favor in less debt all the time. that is their mantra. gary cohn, head of nec is saying 20%. here is what our reporting is saying market is getting ahead of itself. senior republican aides telling us, fox business, it is unclear if the draft amendment would get necessary votes of 216. we're hearing it is still very much up in the air. problem goes back to the mainly the freedom caucus. mark med des, head of freedom caucus, congressman from north carolina is meeting with pence and others, mike pence the vice president, paul ryan the speaker of the house, to try to cobble something together. he does not control the group. he is their nominal spokesman. from we understand inside the freedom caucus they're still debating this new draft proposal. it is interesting.

gives somewhat they want, allow states to have more power over whether essential benefits should be given to everybody. that is the way health care should cover, when you're not, when you don't have your own insurance. whether new government plan arises out of this. the freedom caucus wants more state control. they will get some of that also within the proposal from what i understand, preexisting conditions, you're covered for that still. that is something some freedom caucus members, government should not decide that. that is the market, if you have that automatically makes insurance more difficult so no one gets covered. let's be real lear. what you're hearing from congress is ahead of itself. optimism about the plan is getting ahead of itself. doesn't mean it won't happen. freedom caucus is the very much up in the air. remember those were the recalcitrants that killed it last time. what we're saying is, if there is optimism be very cautious neil. back to you. neil: win over those

conservatives, moderates. >> tuesday group they call them, right? neil: tuesday group. they used meet on tuesdays. that is where that came from. >> logical, right? even i could figure that out. neil: if they met on tuesdays they wouldn't call it a wednesday group. >> i hear there is pumpkin spice latte group. neil: everyone gives one. i have latte update to give you. so many great flavor. >> i had one yesterday, it was horrible, frappuccino. neil: you don't like sweets. >> it was like nuclear waste. i love starbucks. i love starbucks. i love the coffee. this thing was so bad. it was like, it was toxic. neil: i think you have walls built around you. very good see you, my friend, a meantime a congressman that voted no on the last repeal and replace effort, how does he feel about this one? after this. [vo] quickbooks introduces jeanette

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neil: are you worried that the

agenda here is in danger? >> yeah, i do. look, republicans -- i was critical of democrats. when they had the house, senate and presidency, i was critical of republicans under bush when they had the house, senate and presidency. i thought they blew it. we have two main objectives, repeal and replace obamacare and engage in tax reform. i really believe those should happen in 2017. neil: all right, speaking with congressman jason chaffetz here, he announced he is bowing out. not running for re-election in 2018. he is concerned about prospects for republicans already this year in 2017 that they have got to move fast on things like that, health care repeal and replace and tax cuts if they don't, then he might have company leaving the house of representatives and elsewhere. "politico" playbook coauthor adam palmer on that. he says it is for personal reasons. it is a tough life. it is, we all know that. is there something else afoot or reading the tea leaves and

fearing i better get out of dodge before more republicans join me. >> we have to take jason chaffetz what he said. it is a tough lifestyle. he is definitely looking at governorship in terms of running for 2020. he left that door open. you can see him going into the private sector. talk of a potential tv deal he would be involved in. so i don't think this is his last time in public service but certainly his decision to step down at this moment was very surprising yesterday. neil: all right, you know, there is talk the republicans are close to cobbling together a health care deal here and this one has got to pass, doesn't it? >> i don't know about that. yes, there is talk of cobbling together a health care bill. one, congress is not here. it is a lot easier for them to trot out the leadership level with the house freedom caucus and moderate tuesday group to try to come together with something but they aren't going to know what the real votes are until their members get back to see what is in the bill and get a sense of --

neil: hang in there, anna. president moment ago from the white house, going after foreign-made steel. >> wilbur ross leading this critical effort. he have we'll been working on it since i came into office and long before i came to office. we'll fight for american workers and american-made steel, and that is beginning immediately. for decades americans lost our jobs and factories to unfair foreign trade. one steel mill after another has been shut down, abandoned and closed, and we're going to reverse that. other countries have made a living taking advantage of the united states in so many ways as you know. i've been talking about that for a long time. as i travel the country i saw shuttered factories and the shuttered dreams and i pledged i would take action. probably one of the primary reasons i'm sitting here today as president. and since the day i entered

office i have followed through on that pledge big league because with our withdrawal from the trans-pacific partnership, which would have been a catastrophe for our businesses and our workers. i'm very proud of that withdrawal. some people say, oh, gee, i wish you wouldn't do that. but the smart people say, thank you, thank you. that would have been another nafta disaster, nafta, believe me was a disaster and continues to be a disaster for our country. on tuesday i signed an order to enforce the buy american laws and stop foreign countries from stealing contracts from american companies and essentially from american workers. today i'm directing the department of commerce to immediately prioritize the investigation that began yesterday and really long before that because wilbur and i have been working on this for a long time, into foreign steel arriving into our markets and to submit a report on the effects

of these foreign steel products on the national security of the united states. it is not just the price thing. it is not just employment. it also has to do with the national security of our country, which people never talk about. i talk about it. maintaining the production of american steel is extremely important to our national security, and our defense industry base. steel is critical to both our economy and our military. this is not an area where we can afford to become dependent on foreign countries. we have product where we actually need foreign countries to be nice to us in order to fight for our people. and that is not going to happen any longer, believe me. especially as it comes to steel. this investigation will look at how steel imports are impacting the united states national security, taking into account foreign practices such as steel dumping.

dumping is a tremendous problem in this country. they're dumping vast amounts of steel in our company -- in our country and they're really hurting not only our country but our they're targeting of american industry and other foreign strategies designed to undermine american industry as a whole. based on the findings of this report, secretary wilbur rose will make formal recommendations to the white house in the very near future. he will be back very soon with the recommendations we will implement. from now on we're going to stand up for american jobs, workers, their security and for american steel companies and companies generally. today's action is the next vital step toward making america strong and prosperous once again. and i want to just add, i want going to do this but i was in wisconsin the other day and i

want to end and add by saying that canada, what they have done to our dairy farmworkers is a disgrace. it is a disgrace. i spent time with some of the farmers in wisconsin, and as you know rules, regulation, different things have changed and our farmers in wisconsin and new york state are being put out of business, our dairy farmers. and that also includes what's happening along our northern border states with canada, having to do with lumber and timber. the fact is nafta, whether it is mexico or canada, is a disaster for our country. it is a disaster. it is a trading disaster. and we'll be reporting back sometime over the next two weeks as to nafta and what we're going to do about it. but, what happened to our dairy farmers in wisconsin and new york state, we're not going to let it happen.

we can't let canada or anybody else take advantage and do what they did to our workers and to our farmers. and again, i want to also just mention included in there is lumber, timber and energy. so we'll have to get to the negotiating table with canada very, very quickly. again, just to tell you, this is another nafta disaster and we're not going to let it continue onward. i think what i would like to do is, ask a few of the people, if they would like to, these are some of the great steel companies of our country. now some of those companies were much bigger years ago. u.s. steel would be an example and others would be an example. these were the greatest companies in the world years ago and today they have been hurt and they will be great again. they will be great very soon. we'll impose very, very strict regulations on unfair cometics from the outside -- competition

from the outside world. perhaps i could ask the head of united states steel to say a few words. >> thank you, mr. president. the signing of this executive order clearly demonstrates the understanding of the fundamental importance our industry has not just to the national economy but our national defense. >> thank you very much. i appreciate it. anybody want to say something on behalf of your workers. >> thank you, mr. president, secretary ross, for this action to protect not only our industries, our employees, frankly our country. thank you for this bold move. >> thank you very much. >> on behalf of workers in the industry, president of the steelworkers union, i worked a long time with wilbur, we've been fighting unfair trade for years. hopefully this executive order will if i have us tools we need to put our people whack to work. i have a lot of faith secretary wilbur ross will make that happen. >> i have to say unions are working with us very closely and they have been great. so i appreciate that, thank you very much.

so we're going to sign. this is a very important signing. we'll be back over the p the next 30 to 50 days i would say, mack sooner than that, statutorilily we'll take a hard study and do something great for our industry but in this particular case for the steel industry and i look forward to it too. [cameras clicking] so should i give this pen to labor or to steel? i'm going to look at it, there will be a partnership? how about we give it to the union for a change? should we do that? come on. treat us fairly. that's all. you treat us fairly. reporter: [inaudible]. >> this has nothing to do with china.

this has to do worldwide, what is happening. the dumping problem is a worldwide problem. [shouting questions] >> thank you everybody. >> thank you, everybody. [applause] neil: okay, the white house signaling very clear they're not changing policy here as much as investigating whether foreigners are dumping steel in this country at pennies on the dollar. if they are, it is going to stop. but this presidential directive, 25th executive order on the part of this president is an indication that stops, if it is going on, that stops. if it unites steel companies and labor, saying that foreign players are taking advantage of the rules, dumping their steel again at much lower costs here. now, the only similarity i could think of is back in the days when ronald reagan was president, when the japanese were criticized with dumping

chips on our market, toshiba was a catalyst for that back in the early 1980s. ronald reagan took the rare move of citing toshiba as an example of that. the japanese changed their ways, and that ended dump chinese, or japanese chips on this market. whether the same materializes here, way too soon to tell. "politico" playbook author anna palmer on that. what do you think? >> two things are interesting what happened. one, commerce secretary wilbur ross portfolio is getting very full. the person leading on nafta and trade negotiations. he was in the lead for investigation of h1b veeses is a and buy american. today he is leading a lot of reports and a lot of investigations. practical implications right now they're not changing wholesale policy.

i also thought second thing that was really interesting to me, what he said, president trump said on china. this is not directed at china and china's steel industry and dumping in terms of that but it's a worldwide issue. neil: china is the biggest practitioner. at the time we didn't target japan per se with the toshiba chips. we cited toshiba but protected by the japanese with ronald reagan. bottom line toshiba stopped it, japan stopped it. it was done. now what do you think the fallout will be here because the president is using china as a wedge to get to north korea and holding back on any punitive actions regarding trade or currency or rigged everything until he gets some progress on that, what do you make of that? >> i think he is in a tricky position. he wants to come out 100 days, 25 executive orders, show strength and commitment to campaign promises that he made. certainly trade and china were two of the biggest things that he campaigned on every single day but you know, just as you

noted, he needs china terms of what is happening with north korea and certainly kind of backpeddled his rhetoric, that aggressive rhetoric against china particular. so i think he is trying to use a little bit of a carrot and a stick here. neil: thank you very much for your patience. all that breaking news, "politico" playbook author, anna palmer. quick look at the corner of wall and broad. dow at session highs. american express is big part of that. we've been pulling out our american express cards, those who have them, spending a lot. that is certainly a boom to american express and a lot of retailers which have been benefiting as well. the stock is up 5%. the real juice of the market. republicans are coming close, close i should say, to maybe a rework on that health care rework, repeal and replace effort, that kind of went down in flames a few weeks ago. they never even put it up for a vote because conservative caucus

members, freedom caucus members were balking at it. we have a member of congress wasn't too keen on the effort last go round. what does he make of the signs we see of this go-round? after this.

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up 183 points of the a lot of optimism about health care deal, not exclusively but partially. republican congressman dan donovan was one of the no votes if it ever came around to a vote when the republicans kicked around a repeal and replace effort. wonder what he feels about now. good to see you. >> thank you, neil. neil: so little we know, and so little you know about some of the things that were ironed out, or not ironed out but they're closer. >> there is always speculation on markets move. you hear news, people get excited. people get a chance on this we have to repair our health care system. we promised american people we do that. we have to try it again. i think the president -- neil: why? if you go back to the well last time, why couldn't you guys focus on tax cuts, seems broader agreement revisiting this? >> health care mandates have effect on tax codes. neil: you have to make that work.

>> have to make that work before you get to tax cuts. neil: why were you a no vote when it came around -- >> i'm only republican member of congress in new york city. there are 12 democrats and me. i don't think it's a fair fight. i feel bad for the 12 of them. but it hurt people i represent. as only republican in new york city, i feel responsibility for our entire city besides people in the 11th congressional district. relieving up state counties and counties of long island from medicaid payments, their responsiblities would put that burden on new york city. we would see increase in our responsiblities, our taxes, without any further benefit to the people i represent. neil: is that provision removed would you be more inclined to look at, legislation favorably? >> there was other matters too. i explained it to the president. i explained it to the vice president. when you come to tax credits, allow people paying astronomical

premiums and co-payments and, have large deductibles, they were going to be able to use tax credits to help them purchase insurance, advancable tax credits. those tax credits weren't going to be available in new york. it is illegal to use federal funds or tax credits for a policy covers abortion procedures. new york requires insurance companies to cover abortion procedures hard-working tax paying americans, new yorkers would not have those their ability to use those to help them with that burden that they have. neil: you always get a sense, congressman, that this great divide still in the republican party, even if you're able to not, you specifically but overcome differences between two conservative sides and moderate side, whatever you want to call it, that it is a preview of coming attractions even when it comes to tax cuts. there is broad agreement on there. there is not agreement on import tax, border tax. not agreement whether you limit deductionses mortgage interest, et cetera.

writing off sate sales tax, income taxes, in new york, that is a very big issue i'm sure. so where is that going? >> a lot of our differences are geographic. neil: right. >> if you live in nevada you don't have local or state income tax. they don't care we eliminate that deduction. in new york city, that is 10% of the people i represent, that is 10% of their income they're able to, that they pay into the state and city and it is important to them to be able to do that. neil: do you think we should roll back deductions for let's say upper income? >> you know what? there are ways you can do this, everyone should pay their fair share. the tax code is too complicated. it is cumbersome. people trying to file benefits for their tuition benefits in the taxes have to go through hundreds of pages of the tax code to figure out -- neil: what is fair to you. >> you have to measure that out. the other thing government has to figure out what is fair to our citizens is how much they

need to run the government. largest majority of monies we spend running government comes from personal income tax. we have to make sure have money running government. we have to be fairer to people. it is complicated. neil: some don't pay taxes. we focused on the top 1%, 5%, that is all fair game but now 35% pay no income taxes at all. should everyone pay a little bit at least? not that they have to pay 30, 35, 40%. should everyone have skin in the game? >> when you have buy-in, things seem to work better. one the problems with affordable care act passed only by democratic votes that they have control of congress and white house. now that we have control replacing it if we don't have buy-in from other side, if admin strange changes again. neil: someone has to break the logjam, tit-for-tat, tit-for-tat. you're new, a couple years. someone has to dive into the

water to reach across the aisle, hope others respond and bury the hatchet on this one's offended what this party did prior to what the other party did, stop that, but we're not at that point, are we? >> i think we can get to that point. i'm in favor of breaking some larger issues down into manageable parts so that people on both sides of the aisle can agree maybe we should allow insurance companies to sell insurance across state lines. we're told it will drive premiums down because there will be competition. let's see it happen. i don't know who can be against trying that. maybe break it down, very easy -- neil: democrats say that is not the magic elixer? >> something some could come on board to break logjams. neil: some of the conservative colleagues say health care for everyone is not an birthright. >> access to health care shouldn't be republican or democratic issue, it should be an american issue. we have the responsibility to allow people to have opportunities.

some people make poor choices. some people decide not to have health insurance. in a free society you make poor choices. one of the poor choices if the person arrives in the emergency ream we'll still care for them. neil: congressman, thank thank r very much. with all the breaking news. dan donovan lone wolf in this neck of the woods with his dozen or so democratic colleagues. stocks still popping up the 175 points, to the congressman's point largely on optimism that might be misplaced. hope springs eternal, whether you're red or blue, everyone seems to be liking the green. more after this. so those financial regulations being talked about? they could affect your accounts, so let's get together and talk, is being proactive... it's how edward jones makes sense of investing.

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neil: all right, american express is with possible deal with health care, one of the reasons why people are buying. >> we are getting detailed on the contest of that amendment that authors are happying will put repeal and replacement of obamacare off the sheets. prohibition on denying coverage due to preexisting medical conditions, another prohibition on discrimination based on gender, guarantied issue of coverage to all applicants, this is a very big deal and guarantied renewability of coverage. this has been a sticking point. republicans want to do it a different way. covered of dependents plan,

americans love that. option for states to obtain waivers from the standards so they can low e premium costs and get more people ensured. they can opt out of some of the stuff. only of the elements of obamacare that can be waived, essential health benefit that is are controversial that we talked about a great deal. now, the negotiations that you're talking about are happening even as insureds across the country are beginning to estimate costs for 2018 and general for consumers not so great. a new survey show that 3 and 4 plan to raise rates in 2018, survey gives a window into the early planning by insurers as they begin to sketch out, june 21st is their deadline and

have of the insureds plan to raise rate by 20% and as you can see here, half overall 10 to 20%, 25% say that they're going to raise rates by more than 20% and as you can see here, 25% less than 10%. overall, i was told, guess what, nobody is going to keep the prices the same, they're all going the raise and hope springs eternal that some of this material in the amendment could actually bring prices down. as you've been saying, they are hoping another 15 to 20 votes in congress would come along because of these changes, neil. neil: all right, thank you very much. it seems to me, congressman, very good to have you, sir, it seems to me that at least some of the things that republicans are telegraphing are obamacare as it is right now, renewing coverage for the same conditions, regardless, what do

you make of what you're hearing? >> well, i think we would have to see the legislation first. some of it contains things that are being reported that i could support. the problem that gives me heartburn is if this new legislation that we are hearing about and obviously nobody has read it yet, at least i don't know if any democrat who has said it, is that states would have the ability to make adjustments and -- and the essential healthcare benefits are not guarantied once they are transferred to the state to make a decision. my state, for example, has not expanded medicaid, so that would be a strong possibility that some of the essential health benefits would be left out, ambulatory, pregnancy, in missouri, it's an extremely

conservative legislature and i doubt seriously if they would have the things that they -- preserve the things that most of the people in missouri would want to embrace. neil: do you think that various states should have flexibility? in other words, you could get your benefits and insurance companies go over state lines and have things set up in different states for different folks and that might be a cost-saver that would offset the concerns that you have, for example, in missouri? >> well, yes. i think that the things could be tweaked. that could be tweaked to provide some comfort to people who could cross state line to get health insurance. you know, health insurance -- not health insurance, but insurance is generally done by the states. it's something that the federal government has kept its hands off for now, almost a century and so it's not a bad thing, but

i think in the case of health care which is quite different than the other insurance programs and states only manage, health insurance becomes a much bigger deal and you talked about it earlier. i think the question is, is health care a human benefit? should we provide everyone with health care, should that be an acceptance that, you know, if you're a human being and assisting the country, you get health care, that's a philosophical, ideological question that i think we have to wrangle with. i come down on the side that, of course, it's a human benefit and everyone should get it, but i think the whole state thing could be worked out, but, you know, one of the problems, i think, neil, is that we haven't gone -- we haven't had regular order in doing this and that is a bill is introduced, assigned

to committee, committee hearings, it goes to the rules committee, none of that happened. and so i think that we ought to have a debate on the bill. you said something earlier and i think you're right on target. at some point we have to say, okay, yes, they did it to us, but it's got to stop and i think both sides are afraid that if we stop it, then the other side is not going to respect us for stopping it, they'll run over us more. if this continues to go on, we are in trouble as a country. neil: congressman, real quickly, i have been reading about the chatter book that's out on what imploded the hillary clinton campaign, one thing that stands out, i haven't finished it, one thing that stands out is this notion that the clinton folks thought they had it won, polling stopped, they had believe that the forces of good were on their side and that things were going

all their way. there are a lot of unnamed people quoted in those were warning within the ranks to hillary clinton folks, hey, you're getting ahead of yourself, too many hollywood celebrities, cool it, cool it, i'm going onto make the point, were you among those who were telling the clinton folks, you think you're going to anialate this guy trump and you just don't get it? >> i was deeply involved in the campaign, i spoke at the convention, a long-time friend with the clintons, i was nervous the entire last inning of that contest because i think that this was something that nobody had ever seen before and the polling data just could not be trust that had much and so some of us were nervous. in fact, there were a number of people i know who were nervous the entire period as we moved toward election day and i think

we made some tactical mistakes, i think we could have done a lot of things quite different and we might -- the outcome might have been different. one of the things that we did was wrong, is we thought that the negatives of donald trump, everybody is going to be upset with donald trump because all of these things, they are not going to vote for him, i think some people took that attitude and we concentrated on him and i think -- if we could do it over again, forget donald trump, let's campaign on what we are going to do. neil: release after the infamous donald trump tape and even then you were saying, i take nothing for granted, we shouldn't get crazy and loving this right now. i remember that in retrospect. congressman, good to see you. >> good to be with you. neil: meanwhile from a possible healthcare deal to a possible iran deal, i'm talking about

undoing the iran deal. rex tillerson is warning iran that that thing we signed off on, no guaranties there. adam shapiro on the latest to a future north korea -- adam: correct. the review is now underway. there was a statement that iran was in compliance with the arms deals that the nuclear deal that had been signed in the obama administration but secretary tillerson had said that it fails to achieve the objective of a none nuclear iran and the review by the national security council is to determine if they would be able to meet the challenges iran poses with clarity and conviction, but the most recent thing that's happened, neil, comes from un embassador nikki haley who put it like this. >> while this council has paid too little attention to this growing menace, the united states will not. we are going speak up about iran and hezbollah and we are going

to act against their lawlessness. adam: and, of course, iran is responding to all of this. foreign affairs minister tweeted this statement and i'm going to read it to you, quote, worn out u.s. accusations, can't mask omissions of iran compliance with the treaty, obligating u.s. to change course and fulfill its own commitments, a mid-may deadline for the united states to -- for the secretary to finish the review of whether suspension of sanctions should remain in place, back to you. neil: all right, thank you, my friend, adam shapiro joining us from outside the white house. michael duran, bush 43 nsc director. you heard that for many reasons we want to back up from the deal or rip it off that's a dangerous one, what do you say? >> it's hard to back away from it. obama -- president obama shifted

our foreign policy so far in the direction of iran both inside the middle east and globally that just a shift back to where we were before is probably impossible, we have to do it incrementally. what's exciting here to me as somebody who thinks that we need a new balance is that, i think, everyone in the obama administration agrees with that and they're going to do it incrementally, that's the signal i'm hearing. neil: one of the things that i always wondered about is there's another level of which you make moves like this, like a move about iran, put them on notice, syria, tomahawk missile attack a couple of weeks ago, even north korea being a little bit more aggressive in the korean peninsula, that you leave them wondering that as the bad guys in this case, that what your next move will be, like ronald reagan with the defense shield in space. not that he would realistically do it or could he do it, but that he's crazy enough to want

to try and that gets people to the negotiating table, what do you think? >> that's a principle of donald trump's and that's a very good one. one of the things that president obama did incorrectly is he took military deterrence completely off the table to adversaries knew that no matter what they did, we were not going to respond with any kind of -- with our military which is our absolutely strongest asset. neil: so where is this going? obviously, we said this is what we are looking at. iran is still meddlesome as ever, they're not going to stop that, they've gotten tens of billions of the money that was frozen. there was very little impetus to stop it, right? >> president obama convinced the american people that we don't have options. we have options but we have to develop leverage over iran and what i expect the trump administration to do is incrementally increase our

leverage across the board so that we have a whole set of options to cause them pain when they're causing us pain. neil: all right. michael doran, thank you, good to see you. >> thank you. neil: we are expecting to hear steve mnuchin to reporters. normally we wouldn't be all over that but the timing of this with the health care work that might be closer, the pushback on the original august timeline that he raised with us about a month ago when i last visited him at treasury for the tax cut package, a combination of events that has us paying more attention than we normally would. we are on that after this

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neil: forget about he's not going to run out of 2018, might be sooner than that. he wants to spend more time with his family, that time could start sooner than earlier planned. my future plans are not yet finalized. i have no plans to take my foot off the gas. all right. in the meantime we are following the treasury secretary steve mnuchin.

he is ready to address reporters pretty soon. he might telegraph some of the assumed progress on health care and the tax cut thing, the deadline that is been pushed back. top economist mark zan deposition exhibit y was talking about. take a look. are-- >> let's lower corporate tax rate. let's do it in the way that -- we don't have to get all the way to revenue neutrality, we can count on some economic benefits but let's be prudent about it. >> allright. let's be prudent about it. he was against andy, go nuts part. charlie: listen, i like mark zandi, remember who he represents? rate agencies have been historically against

rate under obama. he also -- also unprecedented intervention by government to stem the effects of the financial crisis. we had bank bail-outs, massive printing of money, we had infrastructure. we had everything. they threw everything out. he still got 1.45 average, 1.45% gdp growth. why is that? as he was doing destimmulating

and making the regulatory environment for banks. neil: you're not a fan of barack obama? charlie: personally , i think he's a great man. [laughter] neil: he was the one that was saying august and now they are saying, maybe not. i agree with you. then what? charlie: then the market optimism that we are seeing today is warranted because i just got to see how much they get cleared. we are going to see a significant corporate tax cut and i will tell you, unless -- i know mark zandi thinks it's 2018, unless he's totally smoke-blown on people's rear-ends, we are going to go big on corporate taxes, 20% that could be such -- the markets, i think, will have to take off on

something like that if that does occur. neil: i had somebody yesterday talking about the fact, very few companies pay the advertised rates. charlie: they take the loopholes. neil: understood. but if you get it down to 20%, forget about the trump goal at 15%, that's a big deal, right? charlie: remember what loopholes do, neil, they skew incentives. people talk about maybe the average rich guy won't get a tax cut because he will only pay 30% marginal rate at the top, but he won't have all the loopholes, guess what they do, they force you, cause you to do things that you won't otherwise do. that's why it's important that they get down the -- the top rate down to 30% and, you know -- neil: but i worry about that and you minimized that. charlie: i never make fun of you except for the coffee, the latte stuff is a little more me.

neil: you were trying to new latte. charlie: i was forced. neil: look at this. living proof. [laughter] neil: there you go. you were with liz liz claman. charlie: every day i drink two cups of starbucks coffee, it's the best coffee in the world. that stuff, that stuff -- you know what it looked like? a combination of trump's skin color with veracose veins. it was horrible. this makes pumpkin latte like a fine brandi. charlie: she made me take a sip. liz claman made me.

she threatened me. she threatened me. it was somewhat hostile at the time and she threatened me. i did what i had to do for the good of the network. [laughter] neil: all right. we are going to monitor mnuchin, anything that gasparino says is wrong. [laughter] neil: we will have more. charlie: wrong! detect [laughter] driver assist systems can pull you back into your lane if drifting. bye chief. bye bobby. and will even help you brake, if necessary. it makes driving less of a production. lease the gle350 for $579 a month at your local mercedes-benz dealer. mercedes-benz. the best or nothing.

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neil: all right. we have been monitoring steve mnuchin. he is speaking at a washington, d.c., seminar right now. sort of the bullet points what he's saying that the administration continues to be looking forward to bringing major reform forward. he has been meeting with house ways and means chief kevin brady and others weekly. they agree l all on the same page. that might be news to kevin brady who was with me two days

ago, on "your world." maybe one of the people talking to was the treasury secretary. he says the tax reform will be paid by growth. that is about to dynamic scoring. might not be revenue neutral from the start. that is my interpretation, that it will be dynamically scored. that the revenue will come in. it will pay for itself in the longer term. that is about the supply-siders who are big advocates not getting caught up whether a tax cut will worsen the deficit near term before it improves things longer term. we're monitoring all that. we have governor tim paw lent at this, governor, good to have you. >> thank you, neil. neil: what to you think the treasury secretary is saying on a day we're getting reports that the republicans are getting toward a health care deal. >> direction alley looks good.

individual exemptions, deductions credit, get eliminated individual interest groups may get upset. directionally it looks very positive. for dynamic scoring there should be room for growth in the calculations. idea we statically score things as if there is no growth with tax cuts. they shouldn't overdo it. we should be mindful triggering additional deficits. neil: when you say overdo it, i guess that will decide this whole debate, right, governor? there are those who argue in order for a tax cut to be truly stimulative, and get the bang for the buck you have to cut it a lot across the board. to your point, and to those worried about deficits in the near term at least you can't go too crazy. we could be left with tax cuts that aren't substantial, right? >> i would distinguish two things you said. one the tax cuts can be and

should be substantial. otherwise you won't trigger the growth we all need and hope for and want, but when you talk about making sure it is paid for, you can pay for some of it i think through dynamic scoring or whatever the modeling warrants in that regard, responsible modeling warrants in that regard. do a trillion dollar tax cut over 10 years as a hypothetical i don't think you can say we're paying for the whole thing just on growth assumptions unless the models validate that. if the models validate 500 trillion in growth revenues, then you got to find 500 trillion cutting something else. neil: one of the things that the president seems to be intimating here is that he wants a big tax cut, and he seems to accept the fact that, you know, dynamic scoring to your point is the way to go here but what if we don't get that? what if it is just a corporate tax cut this year. individual rates, if addressed at all will be next year, could you live with that? do you think, for example, the markets financial companies, could live with that?

>> well, i think the, this is a once in a generation opportunity, neil, republican president, republican house, republican senate. of course corporate tax cuts by themselves would be valuable. however, if they defer the rest of it, i think there is grave risk in that. there is always other intervening geopolitical issues, domestic political issues, other issues arise that could bump this window of opportunity to the side. i would be strongly encouraging for them to do it this year in one comprehensive package. this is one of the key political holy grails for conservatives. this is a once in a generation window and i don't think they should piecemeal it. neil: governor, great seeing you again. >> good to see you. neil: i don't know if you're focusing on what is going on in venezuela. the protests are getting deadly and out of control. hugo chavez, this new guy, he makes him look like the pope. after this. [shouting]

>> maintaining the production of american steel is extremely important to our national security and our defense industrials base. steel is critical to both our economy and our military. this is not an area where we can afford to become dependent on foreign countries. neil: an effort by the president going after those countries that might be dumping steel pennies on the dollar. just looking at those accusations going on has steel stocks soaring. united industries ceo and labor unions in the industry, a rare one-two punch sending a message to those who might be thinking of doing that, that those days are numbered. we're 91 days in here, for president trump. has anything changed? larry sabato, a friend of

tweeting. that we're not one nation indisvisible, we're two nations red and blue and i wonder if it is fixable anytime soon. normallily a cockeyed optimist but sounds like he is depressed and suicidal. i want to bring him back, larry sabato. what is going on with you? >> i'm honored reading my tweets. probably your producers. i doubt you read it. neil: that is exactly right. >> that is what i figured. neil: you're creating a buzz, you're getting to be a debbie downer here. why? >> because there is no compromise. people barely talk to each other in the two parties. neil: that's true. >> there is no crossing of of the aisle. you don't have any democratic vote for democratic measures. republican votes for democratic measures. i'm old-fashioned, i grew up, so did you, neil, you're older than you say -- neil: i'm 29. i don't know what you're talking

about. >> you're 29, '60s, '70s, '80s, you had a lot of cross-pollination with two parties. that is healthiest way to run the government, state legislatures, and local government but we have less and less of that. neil: you're absolutely right. kidding aside. we see no cross over. emanuel cleaver a pastor by training we have to have this end. one has to swallow its pride and make over ture. plenty of reason for each side to be angry at the other. they can't seem to do that, the fear the rabid base is going to turn on them. what do you make of that? what would change it? >> well, that is exactly right. it's really a fear of a primary challenge. neil: right. >> since as you look across the country, the 435 districts, the vast majority of them are so one party, neil, that the incumbent can only lose in a primary. how can you lose in a primary if you're a republican? you get challenged from the right.

if you're a democrat, you get challenged from the left. that is the only way you could lose, given the sort of people who vote in democratic and republican primaries. how do you get that challenge? when you appear to compromise. you appear to be soft. you're willing to give half to the other side. we used to honor that kind of thing. now it is dishonored and criticized and penalized. neil: when i was in washington recently, one of the things that stood out, i was talking to a couple of congressman, senators, they had all muse to your point the ol' days where the other side wasn't given a scarlet letter for talking to the or the side. but it could explain what is going on with jason chaffetz in utah who says he doesn't want to run for re-election, wants to spend more time with his family. now talk there could be a special election, even prior to that, so he could leave sooner. there are always sacrifices in

public servant, i get that, but seems like a lot of people, the process itself for both parties gets grinding and they want out. what do you make of that? >> that is absolutely true and what it means over the long term you have fewer people with senority. i realize most people favor term limits, but you want some people that know where the bodies are buried. you want some people with institutional memory. it helps to make the institution work, the institution of the house, senate, congress generally. so i think that's what we're losing, and chaffetz hasn't been there that long. i think he was he elected in 2008. so, it really hasn't been that long for him, and as you say, he may leave even before the end of this term. now he he is chairman of oversight. oversight is a great committee to chair when the other party controls the white house. neil: exactly. >> not as much fun when you're being called upon to investigate your own side. so i have a hard time blaming him. neil: he got criticized for not

being zealous going after donald trump rather than hillary clinton regardless of politics. having said that the 2018 phenomenon is coming up again because of a close race in georgia, i don't know how that will factor out in june and runoff. we saw a close one that shouldn't have been a close one already. how does next year shape up as you see it? >> well, it is awfully early but i would say the house has a much greater chance of flipping parties than the senate does because of the senate seats that are up. it is just really difficult for republicans not to gain seats. forget about losing seats. they should gain some seats, maybe substantial number. we'll have to sigh. but in the house, look, it depends where president trump's job approval numbers are coming up to the election season. if he is in the 30s, democrats have a chance to pull the 24 seats they need to flip in order to take control. if he is more popular than that

i think it is much less likely. neil: all right. we'll watch, very, very closely. i will be following your tweets in the meantime. this, i'm telling you, larry, this internet will be big, big, big, big. share that with you. >> but be up, be optimistic. neil: absolutely. >> look for the sun, not the clouds, neil. i worry about you. okay. neil: i'm telling you. thank you very, very much, professor extraordinaire, larry sabato. one shocking development i saw out of venezuela is that gm is halting operations there. that wasn't the news for me. the news was, what the heck is gm doing there?

neil: all right. is there a connection between the dow at session highs, up over 200 points and steve mnuchin, treasury secretary, saying we're going to get stuff done, tax cuts, health care done by the end of this year. hard to say, this much is not. the dow is racing ahead. american express a big reason for that. financial stocks a big reason for that. growing optimism republicans can cobble something together. the latest reason for the rest of that we'll see. they're always wrong but i'm always right. in the meantime gm, i found this surprising that it had

operations in venezuela to halt but apparently it did and it has. jeff flock has all the details. reporter: since 1948, neil. you asked a good question, neil. why are they doing there in such a difficult environment? they have been the market leader in terms of venezuela selling cars for decades literally. sell a lot of chevrolets down there and it is a great place to sell cars because oil is so cheap, gasoline is cheap but not now. in the town of valencia, that is where their manufacturing operations are located. today they were seized by the venezuelan government and you know, this is one of, now "the wall street journal" estimates 1400 separate businesses that have been seized and nationalized by the venezuelan government. if they do as well at seizing and nationalizing oil industry, pretty soon they will be riding donkeys down there because there won't be any cars on the street. yesterday what was called the mother of all marchs took place

in the streets of venezuela. various towns, mainly caracas. three people killed. this country is a mess. it is looking a little bit like havana in 1959 as businesses are seized and there is widespread unrest on the streets. the government of nicolas maduro blames rightests, right-wingers are forcing this but looking more and more just like the general population in general is rebelling against no food, no liquids, no medicine, no parts for their operations of companies like general motors, and gm, we talked to them today, their statement says basically we're going to, we strongly reject the arbitrary measures taken by the authorities. we'll vigorously take all legal actions to defend our rights but right now the courts are in a bit of the pocket of the ruling government. i don't know where that is going to go. not a great place to do business, neil. neil: can't believe to your

point they were there in the first place through chavez years. >> used to be good. neil: jeff flock, thank you very much. all kennedy has to see, with socialism and problems but this is socialism is beyond the drift. >> that is what they say about every socialist model. say north korea and red china. no, this is what happens when you take socialism to its ultimate end, the government is going to perhaps get involved in one or two enterprises as a way of being benevolent and serving society. but then, when those wells sort of dry up, they have to cast a wider and wider net and it requires the government to have more control over more finances. and ultimately that means diminishing liberty and no choices. that is exactly what happens when you set the prices, you have food shortages. neil: but it is food shortages led to a lot of these riots

here. i'm thinking, you mentioned china, at least china gets a little bit of capitalism for its own people so they can participate in this. >> there are plenty of regimes. they see what happens when people don't have food. they freak out, right, this should be an oil-rich country. this should be the kind of place able to feed its citizens and have them thrive if they were participating in the economic liberty about, what happened here? >> governments and human beings get selfish. they want to concentrate money and power themselves. they fear if they loosen their grasp on it, allow the populace to participate in it will mean less for them. ultimately they squash liberties, freedom, economic and otherwise, it ultimately leads to injustice and riots. neil: like we're seeing today. switching gears, if you don't mind -- >> by the way for millenials who think socialism is a great thing, go to caracas right now. neil: see what that is like.

steve mnuchin is speaking in washington today and he seems to be lifting the markets up on talk, don't worry, we're going to get this stuff done, health care done, tax cuts done. whatever he is saying is doing its thing and helping markets. >> yeah. neil: are we getting ahead of ourselves again? >> no. again the markets are reacting with perception. it is not necessarily reality at this point because obviously the administration and congress have not worked together to pass health care. they will take another whack at the pinata but they also have to tackle tax reform. we've seen some of these conservative economists with editorials, including art laffer, steve forbes, tackle business tax reform and combine that with infrastructure get democrats on board and make biggest impact by lowering corporate tax rate and tackle personal income taxes later. i think it is interesting idea. i don't think you should couplet

interesting taking things apart. neil: but i think individual rate put off until next year just doesn't happen. >> i don't know they can do everything at once. another big loss for this administration could be brutal. neil: no, i hear you on that. real quickly, is it your thought though that if health care thing falls apart, i think what mnuchin is telling the folks in that room is go right to taxes, if it came to that we'll go right to tax cuts. holding out hope twice we failed, we're down for now. >> yeah. neil: how realistic is that? they built into all the equations revenue they get from reforming the whole -- >> it is smarter for them politically to tackle health care before they get to taxes and they know that but if that's not going to happen, it's really just an absurd prospect to continually go back to that dry well if they can't make anything happen on health care. and, you know, that i think, if they fail again on health care, i think speaker ryan is done. neil: do you think as

libertarian is health care is right for you will? >> no? neil: why? >> because it is not. government doesn't have a right to take some things from others to give them to others. people feel morally obligated to help people out. that is why we have a safety net. there is difference between safety net to help people who truly can't help themselves. like some of the older people and most destitute. they're often times last to get it when you have a net so large you say everyone has a right to health care. neil: you getting into all this tonight? >> we're getting into some of it. it is 4:20, neil. neil: i'm sorry. >> don't apologize. everyone will be in a good move. neil: kennedy, catch her on this, she gets into the issues, has views that will frighten you many times. she is brilliant. i'm talking brilliant. neil: dow isn't only thing percolating. you should see the nasdaq after this. ount, flonase allergy relief keeps your eyes and nose clear.

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. neil: all right, i hopes this put to rest the notion that tax cuts and talk of them effect and weigh on the markets. i'm not saying exclusively but largely. american express and better-than-expected news out of that key dow financial component helped the markets. better-than-expected coming out as quarterly report. a lot of the juice from the latest rally from steve mnuchin expressing confidence in tax reform talks, health care

reform talks, that both will get done before the year is out and everything will be hunky-dory. that's the gist of it. the president will be holding a news conference at the italian prime minister, he is expected to say our two countries will continue to do work together. to trish regan now. trish: grazie. thank you so much. steve mnuchin making a bold promise a short time ago, he said there will be a major tax reform by the end ever the year and the markets love the sound of that. we took off there crossing above 200 as he made the news. financials, industrials, all higher, a rally on our hands. welcome everyone to the "the intelligence report". we're hearing from president trump's chief economic adviser gary cohn, formerly goldman sachs. many folks on the left think mr. cohn is leading effort to make the administration more