trading range. more to go. >> charles, this rally itself. >> the housing component is taking off like crazy and that's going to drive the gdp. >> okay. david asman with the place to be on fox. david: after losing two central elections, ten r centrist democrats, tweeted out they should work with the republicans not only to save the economy, but to get themselves elected. is it right or wrong? i'm david asman, welcome to forbes on fox. let's find out with steve forbes, elizabeth macdonald, and mike, you say that democrats are going to help themselves on us taxpayers as they help the g.o.p. pass tax cuts? >> the tax cuts would help the

economy and get it growing again. the democrats if they worked with republicans could take some credit with that. look, smart people in government know that if you have a good idea, it's better to attach yourself with it than detach yourself. they worked together in the '80s, democrats and republicans on tax reform, in the '90's on welfare reform. this he can work on this. david: john, would it help if the democrats and republicans got together? >> no, this is not the 80's. this would be a bad idea. the simple truth is, democrats do not believe in tax cuts. any kind of bipartisan planning between the two parties would amount to something symbolic, but does nothing to enhance individual freedom by reducing the burden of government. why would republicans get in bed with the very party that will neuter what will make them great? >> steve, in the '80s, reagan got together with tomorrow democrats for tax cuts, right? >> yes, but at the time the public opinion was in favor of it and a portion of the

democratic party then wanted tax reform, getting rid of tax shelters and republicans wanted lower tax rates so they were able to come together. the key thing is, what do the blue dog democrats want? and the key thing would they be able to bring along eight democrats in the senate so you don't have to have the filibuster problem? >> the answer is no. it will be watered down, weak tea, not like the robust tax cut we got under ronald reagan. david: mark, one thing the democrats got this week was a wakeup call. the obstructionism just being against any kind of tax cuts is not helping them at the polls. >> the thing is, david, we don't need tax cuts. we need to raise revenue. we're going to lead to higher deficits and we have to make massive spending cuts. we're limited where to cut spending. our tax rates are low in this country globally so i don't know what the big press is to lower taxes other than the rich want lower taxes.

david: and not compared to where they used to be, because barack obama jacked them up pretty high. >> that's not true. >> they're high, federal, state and local they're very high and we saw under the eisenhower era, when we have high taxes, we have recession every other year. this is not our parents democrats. it's one size fits all socialism. >> they're not left at all. >> yes, they are. politics is local. you have to consider how to get the moderate northeasterners in with the conservative southerners, you do that via tax cuts. jfk knew that and mike is right. and-- excuse me, mark. and reagan had a sign on his desk that said, there's no limit where a man can go so long as they give the other guy credit. that's what reagan knew and clinton knew. >> and america used to be the cheapest place to set up a business. and right now we have the highest corporate tax rate in

the industrialized world. and we're a tougher place to work than anyplace else and a lot of democrats understand that, don't they? >> there's a lot of gunk in the system that prevents us to 3% economic growth right now. when i think of a blue dog democrat i think of a red-haired democrat from my state heidi hi hidecamp. you can work with her because the people in north dakota want economic growth and there's a lot of pressure of her being on the side of economic growth. david: mike, blue dog democrats, the phrase you use for more moderate democrats, they used to be a pretty big part of the democratic party, as much as a third. right now there are only 18 people in congress that call themselves that, but that might grow as a red light of the election losses from the left, right? >> consider me an optimist, david. if you look at the last eight years, the republicans gained

more governorships, they've gained more state legislators more local political positions, they've gained congress, gained the senate, they've gained the presidency. at some point, even the democrats, a light bulb is going to go on and say, hey, do you think higher taxes and more spending is not the way to win office. david: john, i see you shaking your head. i know that you believe as i do that incentives are the most important fact of behavior, the politicians believe in incentives and number one incentive is what, getting reelected whether they're republicans or democratsment democrats have been losing as a result of being against everything, including tax cuts and maybe now they'll change because their incentive is to get reelected. >> we can hope for that, but let's get back to reality precisely because republicans have taken control of so many aspects of government, why would they then get in bed with the very party that will neuter what has put them in the majority.

david: i'm going to answer that, steve, because they want to get reelected. because individual politicians, individual democrats have one more important goal than any other, which is to get reelected and that's why they might go with republicans. that's my hope anyway, what do you think? >> mike talks about the bulb going over their heads, but unfortunately democrats gave us regulations that give us dim bulbs, why hold much hope there. they may worry about general election, but they fear primaries. if they work and being accused of working donald trump, they're going to get primary and only a handful to go along. go for a big tax cut, get it done and they'll come around when they actually see it working. david: mark, you may not like tax cuts right now there are 18 blue dog democrats working with republicans to talk about tax cuts. wouldn't that push the majority into the tax cutting mode in

congress? >> no, the only thing tax cuts are going to do is lead to bigger deficits. and empirically tax cuts do not create jobs. there's a long list of research papers that show that tax cuts don't work and our tax rates are not the highest in the world, they are stated, but when you figure in deductions and figure in freebies that corporations are giveni. david: i agree with you on one thing, the deductions that corporations and republicans and other tax cutters want to do is eliminate those and flat rate for corporate. and eliminate the deductions. >> the reality check in this conversation, tax hikes have demolished small businesses over the last ten years notably under obamacare. and next small business creation is upsidedown and we've never seen that in this country.

the little guy, small guy they don't have a seat at the table. and we have to think of them, the net job creators in this country. david: one thing that paul ryan mentioned when he talked about tax cuts this week, he said most of the people that have businesses in the united states are not incorporated. they pay their eight out of ten businesses pay their taxes as individuals and therefore, the high individual rates are what kill them. that's why they want to bring down both corporate and individual rates. >> congressman ryan is right mack has it dead on. the small business, the retraction and the formation of small businesses, a lot of it is in the states are where blue dog democrats live. they support democrats, they don't want a level playing field with everybody else. we want a level playing field. give small business the same opportunity. david: last word. up next, the president wants to make it harder for immigrants to

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now, back to forbes on fox. >> i believe the time has come for new immigration rules which say that those seeking admission into our country must be able to support themselves financially and should not use welfare for a period of at least five years. >> president trump this week calling for stricter limits on welfare for immigrants. now, we should note that laws have already been on the books since 1996, but they haven't been enforced much recently as welfare benefits have exploded the last years. steve, you say it's time to derail the gravy train. >> in 1996 when you got welfare reform, you worked for your benefits if you're able bodied.

work. the welfare roles have collapsed in this country, wisconsin on they went down over 85% and so, this is the humane way to go. they should do it for food stamps, welfare, so go back where we were on immigration, five years. it worked then, it can work again today. david: and mark, we do have this history in the united states of people coming here with no money, through the sweat of their brow, they managed to make something of themselves, it's the american dream. doesn't welfare take away from that? >> well, premise that immigrants come here to be on welfare is just incorrect. david: not all do, absolutely. not all do. >> the welfare exploded through immigrants and the poor is not true either. we've turned welfare over to the states and dramatically cut benefits and 23% of people eligible for welfare are getting welfare. so, the fact that there is a lot of immigrants running around on welfare is just not a correct

assumption. david: well, sabrina. >> or that it should be limited. david: i hear you. some forms have exploded like food stamps, for example, but we also have a figure, this is by the senate for illegal-- for immigration studies and this is for legal and illegal immigrants. as a conservative group, they estimate 6 $6,234 that go to immigrants in this country. >> certain, we have a problem, but the problem is much bigger. it's sort of a failed immigration system in general. we ought to be able to sort of decide on a better immigration policy because the last thing that we want is for people to come here who want to have a better life for themselves, and to turn into sort of second class or third class citizens who don't have all the rights of americans, and i think that that is sort of eyebrow raising with the comments, it's true that we ought to not encourage people to be on the welfare roles, but we want to make life-- if you're coming here, you ought to come here and become a true

citizen and an american like the rest of us. >> the problem, john, we've got this toxic mix of bad immigration policies on one end and bad welfare policies. they come together and it's a terrible thing and hurts people. and mick mulvaney omb director. office of management and budget, spoke to this and play it and get your reaction. >> we're no longer going to measure compassion by the number of programs and the number of people on those programs, but the number of people we help get off those programs. david: so it's more compassionate to try to get people off of welfare than to put it on it. >> i think that mulvaney speaks to how trump gets it backward. how is he helping the native americans saying you will have access to what which is debilitating. i think he's helping immigrants by saying you will not have access-- >> wait a minute, john, he wants to stop that or at least cut it back. >> precisely. david: the availability of welfare for immigrants. >> you know, no, which is a

great thing for immigrants. trump once again gets it backward. why are you helping americans by saying you're going to get access to something that's not good. and i think in a broader sense we've got to say, we do not have an immigration problem, that's the beautiful thing whereby people come here to make their lives better. we have a problem of too much government handing out things which is unnecessary. u.s. is where poverty is cured not where it festers. david: i think we have an immigration problem, a lot of good people can't get in and bad people can get in. >> i want to address your first point. i think that donald trump said really good thing about that, we need a pro skills, pro talent-based immigration policy. look, this week it was reported that china had a break through in quantum communications, leap-frogging on. we can't afford to lose a race like that. we need the brightest people in the world and they're not going to want to go to on welfare.

the best anti-welfare policy is to bring in people who aren't going on welfare. david: on immigration, if you put the question to the people, would you like people who come here that are just going to work. >> i think that people need help. we're a giving nation, we want to help the poor and we do. i'm interested in australia and u.k. having appoints based immigration system, based on your talents and whether you're college educated. what trump is saying is what australia and u.k. have been doing. david: cash n-- cashin' in gang. eric, what have you got. eric: president trump's china's efforts to rein in the rogue nation are not working. is it time to take action. and amazon's taking all with the

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>> well, talk about a crash crunch. illinois, the latest state facing a possible financial meltdown. the governor warning that the land of lincoln headed to banana

republic due to costly pensions. and one says don't bail them out. why not, rich. >> and you encourage this behavior across the united states. whoever promised these kind of pensions were imbeciles or liars. you can't come to the conclusion when you pay the outrageous pensions for 20, 25-year careers. david: so mark, don't pay off the damn liars. >> look, i think this needs to be put in context. illinois is not a high spending state, but it has monumental pension liabilities as you mentioned and it's going to have to raise taxes to pay those off and cut spending. i think it's going to have to do a combination of both or a situation where the bond market is going to collapse. david: well, steve, already we've had examples of illinois raising taxes and people vote with their feet, by the way.

illinois has lost more residents in 2016 than any other state. people want to get out of there because they think they're being charged too much by the state. >> yes, david, and this is the third year in a row that has happened. companies are leaving illinois which is why they have to throw tax credits and try to bribe them to stay that. if you want to see what's right two neighbors, wisconsin and indiana. they've done fiscally, cut taxes and they have a booming economy. look at the midwest, look at their neighbors. david: or zero income tax, like florida or texas. florida, they're getting 1,000 new residents every day, that's over 300,000 new people a year because people don't want to pay the taxes to their state. >> they sure don't, david. i asked my husband if we could move there, sunny weather, too. illinois is the bottom of the barrel. they truly have been wildly irresponsible. they only fund about 40% of their pensions, leaving the

taxpayer with unfunded liability of over $80 billion. so i feel for the people whose pensions are not going to be paid out, but i feel for the taxpayer, too. david: a bailout would encourage the wrong type of behavior? >> exactly. you want the investors to be burned and that states and cities can default so hopefully they don't invest so much precious capital in waste. they put it in things that do good things. david: mike, you've been doing comparison shopping with regard to states and fiscal policies. >> some of the bad news, where i live in new jersey we're starting to look more and more like illinois with the pensions and so forth, but it's the function of spending far more than your revenue can take in and the reason why people are leaving is, they don't want to have to fund this largess that's going to bureaucrats and that's why they're leaving. david: the bottom line, the tax increases are not really the answers, quickly.

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streaming of movie and content. >> market share. >> and mark-- mike is absolutely right, a great stock. >> that's it for forbes on fox. have a great weekend and keep is right here, the nr one business block continues with eric bolling. >> north korea still testing the world's patience. u.s. officials telling fox news the rogue nation conducted another rocket engine test that could be used for missiles capable of reaching our shores. and it comes the same week president trump says china's efforts to rein in its neighbor have not worked out and the sad news that the american college student released after 17 months in a north korean prison passed away. so, is it time we take more drastic action to stop north korea's aggressive behavior? hi, everyone, i'm eric bolling. our cashin' in crew, gina, david mercer, welcome, everybody. check this out. the workout post