moonpcñ?ñ?ñ. i say japan will be up 20% in year. >> i think jonas is an alien so he should know about space. [applause] dagen: i love you guys. neil issmñ?ñ now. they are telling the foxbusiness network that the goal for corporate tax cuts may be changing. >> corporate tax rates are not going to change or balance the help. it would be wonderful if we could get them down to 15%. i think they've come off of that particular figure recently, but i would like to get them done to 25% or 20%, this country would turn around overnight. >> right away, they added ten

points to the president's minimum plan. is there any cut better than no cutpñ?ñ?? we have been stein and [inaudible] >> i think he's being realistic. think about that. that 15% number, we don't have to go that low. >> competing ground. >> were not competing against the czech republic. 25%. >> the czech republic is glad you said that. >> retailers are paying in the high 30s like 38, 39%. they would love 20%. i would like to see taxe cuts fr legitimate small business. i think we can give them 15% of the large multinational global corporations, 25%.

eric: i don't know. i love charles painted death, but i'm just saying, you start out the gate with a number that substantially higher than the proposal that's likely coming in, it's only going to go up from there. >> it will only go up from there let's talk about why was 15% in the first place. states, on average, have a 5% rate. you add five and 35 which is the present rate, you are at 40%. to get to 22, the average of the european countries, you've got to do 15. >> and what is it in the czech republic? twenty-two.í÷ñ?ñ? i just made that up. i have no idea. >> the average effectivemñ?ñ? ri always do my preparation on business,f#ñ?ñ? 27.1%. >> so what are youmñ?ñ? saying.? >> my point is this, do we get

enough bang for the buck eliminating all the loopholes and getting it down toúmñ?ñ?ñ 2y adding in the loopholes. if you eliminate the loopholes and take it to 25, is there enough bang for the buck. i don't think so. eric: it just seemed to be another example of how the pre-compromising when they're not even in the states they have to do that yetzzñ?ñ?ñ. >> we are actually in that stage. they just came out with their estimate for the budget deficit for the next ten years and it's terrifying. >> they are way off on that because they just made the last one a few months ago and there are ready 190 billion from where they were then. >> let's just say the numbers are so large that 190 billion is a drop in the bucket. not to me or you. but look, we don't even know why there should be a corporate tax

rate in the first place. income should be taxed directly to the stockholder. the corporation is a legal fiction. we don't even know how much bang for the buck there is at all in corporate tax cutting. we do know ethically and legally it's wronnwñ?ñ?g. we have such enormous deficits that we've got to do something. something'sñ?ñ? got to happen. eric: we havecññ?ñ? good anecdol evidence that companies move to countries that have lower corporate tax rates than ourpñ? own. there is clearly a correlation. all i'm saying is, if you take the effective corporate tax rate which is at 27.1 and you move to a new corporate taxazñ?ñ? rate,u bring it down to 20 live from 27, is equitably enoughe÷ñ?ñ? fr companies.

>> all had, sorry. >> the problem is you have companies in 1 19%, 7% and othes paying 38%. no one is going to have 27%. that's fictional. >> we don't know. if you could just pipe down because were trying to have a conversation here marjori margi. >> i know. >> you get a sense that this is enough for that it's a sign that whatever's being considered and whether you agree or disagree everything is getting scale ba back, the size and scale of healthcare and tax cuts. >> because these grandiose ideas are harder to accomplish than one would think. i think it's a good thing to start with compromise and their willingness to compromise. the court of public opinion is

consumers are focused on cuts for the middle class. gallup recently reported this issue and only 38% of americans have a positive reaction to corporate tax cuts where they:ñ? have very high reaction to middle-class tax cuts. figuring out how to reconcile that with the public will be the biggest challenge. eric: if you're basing it on the air and wondering what the sentiment is at any given time, you'll never get anything done. >> if you give a tax cut to the middle class, who, let's face it, the people who pay most of the taxes are the upper and, it will be somewhat self-defeating in the deficit will go upóññ?ñ?. >> to make it up you have to do things like border adjustment tax. [inaudible] >> look, charlie is saying the

real tax rate, 27.1, i would say the european tax rate is lower than i just said. in reality, i think we should bring it down further to make sure were keeping the american companies here. don't you believe if they have a lower tax rate they will contribute more to the economy and spend more and hire more people. the bank for the economy is worth it. >> get rid of all these regulations, get a low tax rate, and be closer to the customer. that is a benefit. it's not just a low tax rate. all of our corporations are uprooting. your biggest market is america. >> there like 25 headquarters in one store in maryland. >> if you're bringing the tax rate down@bñ?ñ? and they don't o move overseas, they stay here and expand, if you get rid of.y? regulations, you might be ablewñ

to stop the healthcare crisis. they will hire more and people get insurance.;rñ?ñ that's the way it's supposed to work. >> host: when we come back, the back and forth over helping americans on the dole. they claim financial independence. ben carson has a plan to do that so we don't get in these arguments anymore. after this liberty mutual stood with me when this guy got a flat tire in the middle of the night, so he got home safe. yeah, my dad says our insurance doesn't have that. what?! you can leave worry behind when liberty stands with you™. liberty mutual insurance. hit could be the next big thing i should totally get that domain name... get your great idea online too... get your domain today, and get...

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eric: you were looking at a public housing project and noticed that it looks pretty nice, almost too nice. the argument was you don't want to make this to cushy where you never have the aspiration to leave or get out. i think that's what he was

saying. >> they were concentrating on making it clean and comfortable, instead they use their money to concentrate on getting people into a point of stability and back into permanent housing solution. that's what i was creating. neil: he says it so calmly and he is a top neurosurgeon. neil, you could afford to lose a little weight, you don't have to, but you could afford to. anyway, what he was saying, ben carson saying it will help get americans get their financial independence and not be too dependent on the goodies that the government can hand out. he doesn't want people to get to used to those goodies. ben stein, what you make of that. >> i think he's entirely) i've always liked him a lot and i think the idea that government makes life much too good for people who don't work, don't care to work, i don't care. the ones who on able to work or

sick, let the government take care of them, but we've got to give people an incentive to work. here in california we give more to a mother with no husband and three children then we pay starting teachers and even in some parts of the state, to starting computer programmers. that gives people incentive to not work and not find permanent solutions to the housing problem and all their other problems. we are making it way to cushy in some ways. >> i think it's oversimplifying the issues and cycle of poverty dramatically. i don't think any of us at the table are suffering with the realntñ?ñ?]ñ?ñ? problems of peog

in these housing situations for the cuts they are talking about, the hud will influence veterans, elderly, there's a lot of other things. are there efficiencies we can fix? absolutely. there are great models to move people out of temporary situations. most people in those situations don't want to stay there. there's not a lot of poor people who say this is pretty good, i want to stay like this. making them comfortable, that's all about humanity. we need to be careful about being able to deeply understand the roots of poverty and the issues of addiction and single mothers, the cost of childcare isn't such that you can simply >> is it really being good to be people or empathizing with them not to put some restrictions on these dollars. at the end of the day, coal miners granddaughter, full story, i've seen a lot of this up close. people get into the situation, they get used to it and it's hard to get out. it's not because they're bad lethargy that overcomes you when handou)cñ?ñ?hand up, not a hand.

let's help them in the right way. >> my mother grew up in a housing project, my cousin grew up in a housing project, i have housing. i'm to be honest. i understand the notion that this was to give people, i don't want to make welfare easy on people, you shouldn't, if you're able body you should be working. but let's be clear what ben carson was talking about. he's talking about public housing. is he proposing getting people out of public housing by making it dirtier or less fun to hang out at the projects. >> i think he was referring to the fact that it triples the inflation rate and we've made it almost too easy, too comfortab comfortable. >> too easy to get in. >> too easily get in and not get out. >> if he's saying let's make housing uncomfortable for four people, you are out of your mi mind. >> do you have friends in the project. >> you're pretty rich.

>> my cousin no longer lives in ?ñ?. >> but to the point, how do you create a pathway out. discomfort while you're there doesn't solve anything. >> i think all he was saying is there's a great effort to make these almost as conventional and real commercial housing that we have available and that is not the goal. >> with all due respect to marjorie, she's taking an academic approach. >> we don't like academic approaches. >> when i was growing up in tñjçç my building had no elevator, no was always something i climbed over, junkie, dead bodies, i was jealous of the people in the projects when i was growing up. >> the projects my cousin grew up in smell like urine, there were fights everywhere.

>> i know about the projects that i have relatives in there now. i know everything about them. of course not great. they're terrible places, but i think what ben carson is saying is that people can get used to their surroundings and if there's not sufficient, here's the problem. in my building, my mom worked and had three boys and she used to work hard every day. our neighbor had three boys and didn't work. you look out the window on saturday, guess what, were wearing the same closes her kids. she didn't work, she was on welfare. we live in the same building. she didn't work. the only reason my mom worked was because of dignity and pride but you don't have to in this country and that's the problem that ben carson is talking about. >> but everybody has a right to dignity and pride, having access to get that job.

>> you don't get it from government. when you're born in the greatest country in the world, that's the path. >> but what leaders say is the most important doctrine of our time is our budget and how we spend money and being efficient and using it the right way. understanding the roots of the problem is important. >> go to any project in the bronx and everybody's wearing gucci belt or verse archie, i'm telling you, there's a lot of things you can do your self to get out. >> ben carson should have made that point. he did not. he's talking about making life less comfortable for people in housing. neil: one thing i was going to disagree with him, but he's awesome. we have a lot more coming up, we have a lot more coming up, including tech stocks that got a

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neil: tech stocks are cooling off from their rather hot start this year. google is getting a $2.7 million fine from the european union claiming that they violated antitrust laws by boosting its own shopping services ahead of others. i guess that is something you shouldn't do.

investigators are looking at the same thing. >> biggest fine ever, but it's immaterial to google. they will get along fine. what i worry about is something coming up in another french court and it's this idea that people can have anything struck from the internet they want and there's a french court seeking to get google to do this. they have done it on the google sites based in france, but now european regulators want them to do it across all. neil: what you mean like anything bad about you. >> let's say there is a picture that neil caputo deems inappropriate of yourself on the web or something, i don't know, and you want it taken down, you can contact google and say this is inappropriate or not true or i don't like it and this is what the court wants him to do. >> google puts so much garbage on the internet about people and their personal lives. >> they don't put it on their.

>> they allow it to go on. >> here's the challenge, when a company gets so big that they become the sacrificial lamb on all of these issues of how do we regulate the internet and what is right on the internet. i will say -- >> you don't support what the french are doing? >> i do not support what the french are doing. what i will say is what they are designed to do is make the internet open and free, to give access, and they do things to combat things that are problematic like they work on anti- counterfeiting around prescription drugs and do things to protect consumers. at what point do you become the world police and what point does your tool -- >> will that's a whole another issue. they say there favoring their own retail services are companies and they want them to stop that. >> that didn't help google but more thañ?ñ?n likely they were guilty and the eu went overboard becauseícñ?ñ? there's ellis. guess what, take a look at phillip morris. at the end of the day, google

will dominate and theswñ?ñ? stol be fine. >> this is just the beginning. >> ben stein, your take on it. >> i love google, i have shares in it, this one affected at all, meanwhile while a lot of these tech stocks are slipping, our

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slide proof stocks? what you got. >> i don't think there is any thing such as a slide proof stock. i would just go and hang on for dear life. by the time your grandchildren are my age, they will be rich. >> i agree with him a thousand%.

he's right. people must own these great american companies, even íñ?ñ iu own them through a spider. >> individual stocks. >> well that's my job,;tñ?ñ butf you are not going to be attuned ñ?ñ?. >> all right, we continue withk? david. >> the worldview of america plunging. someone says this should have american taxpayers smiling. hi everybody, welcome to forbes on fox. a new poll of 37 nations around the world showing they are not thinking too highly of us. rich things that could be a good thing. also with us is steve's forbes, elizabeth mcdonald and bruce jepson. so it's good when foreigners don't like us? >> consider how it works out. president obama has s