it is interesting, that that when you don't have a whole lot of room here, it just take as few peeling off like we had here before you just see the whole thing explode. >> take your point, neil. make the judgment that democrats

are better at politics. easier to be in the opposition party. republicans united universally, no pun intended on this to object to obamacare, affordable care act, every single one voted against it then. every single democrat has been a no vote on any of these initiatives now. but it is interesting to point out sometimes it's a lot easier being opposition. but again i'm not making excuses for these lunatics. the fact of the matter is, they still botched it. >> i repeat something have been better than nothing. neil: let me write that down. butted did i, thank you very,ç very much. i hope to continue the momentum here. as stuart pointed out they will not get the something. so they are left with nothing. more to the point they are left with the affordable care act. as you have been hearing here. likely this will stay in place for a couple years, assuming all republicans agree on a repeal effort. that is not a slam-dunk.

georgia republican congressman doug collins. congressman, we notice markets coming off their lows here, convinced maybe solemn moneyed can be made out of these legislative lemons. what do you think? >> that's a possibility we have to look at now but i think the real possibility here there is action, what you were talking about, you and others the fact, obamacare is miserable failure. it is in a death spiral. everybody talks about that and what i'm trying to reconcile with voters how we do it up here, taking this not moving forward, that is the problem we're confronting right now. when we look at that, there is the hope we can get this done. maybe looked at abus, don't like to see and senate comes back and say here are things we need to do. i have to go back remember, frankly if we look at this, i heard comments, maybe we can do democrat and get democrats on board with this. the reason obamacare was a

failure not republicans voting for it. the reason obamacare was failure it is a bad bill and we have to keep reminding people of that. neil: you keep trying, congressman, and you come up buptkus. i wonder if repeal effort where moderates concerned waiting couple years for alternative leave people in limbo. how do you address that concern among moderate colleagues particularly in the senate? >> that is real concern. the problem i come back with, we understand difficulties in house. we confronted difficulties. with overcame the difficulties. we found something to move forward on. what i'm frustrated, senate was vocal telling us not to do what they were doing, because they realize they didn't want to deal with it. now they have to deal with it. this is not issue you can simply let go. at end of the day, cut off all the politics just talk about who is this is hurting. this is hurting young couples in

my district, older folks in my district, all over this country lost their insurance. they don't have the doctors they used have. neil: were you surprised congressman, a lot of people looked at what you were coming up with, not you specifically as being more hurtful. ironically you were losing pr battle you were trying to convince you offer better alternative? >> when you look back on it, there was lot of pr hype for obamacare, when they looked later on it was failure. this is what matters. this is looking at medicaid reform for the long term. we're looking at it from taking folks able-bodied putting them into actual plans they can use. we have to continue to make the case. american people understand that we have to do our job. neil: who is doing it? you tried. come on this show, always grateful for that, but very few of your colleagues articulate what is going on here. that is a death spiral might be strong, but it is math, it is not sustainable certainly on

this. triple digit premium increases. that is not sustainable. but that, no one is stepping back saying, for the efforts to gain millions more health care coverage, tens of millions of more paying a hell of a lot more? why are you not able to make that argument? makes me wonder how you handle the tax cut argument there they're framing it here come republicans looking after their rich buddies giving them some bonuses? what i have to remind members, being in congress is not just making a statement of no and not have solution. when we have solutions we agree upon, you have to learn, study, make your case. we're making our case with you. i'm making it home. i do town halls. neil: sadly, sadly, this might shock you,. >> yeah. neil: all of america does not watch this show just yet. we're working on it, trust me, over time. >> we're definitely working making that happen as well.

here is the issue. this is not easy job. neil: you're up against mainstream media called you heartless and mean. you're used to that. i know you can take that. how can you make the pitch that look, this is out of control government, just sustain it? at the very least would mean curtailing benefit or hiking taxes considerably, just to sustain it? >> exactly. let's flip this as we go forward in, nip this in the bud this way. we're going make the case, this is death spiral. i want to flip to my democrats friends against this, what is your solution? what is your solution. neil: they don't need one. you they will let you blow up, and be on you. >> this is case we have to make case to american people. neil: are you looking at tax cuts this year? what do you think? it is not looking good. >> we're focused on getting health care. tax cuts are things we'll move and work on. those are areas that some have

said they want to work on. we'll work on those. get those together. neil: this year? this year? >> you i hope so. i think it can be. look, i'm a realistic optimist. we're in town where you have divide and lot of times people react off the last person in their ear. i'm optimist we have to put the country first and understand our people and make the case even when it is not popular. that is it what leadership is. leadership is making case to make reforms and make something happen when you know it is best thing to do. it will take the time to actually make the case. that is my encouragement. neil: you had seven or eight years making case. you've been working your heinie off on it, but american people are saying man these republican, they can't see straight. r&c% >> that is issue, you talk about numbers that we have. we have to realize we're a team. this is not individual sport. we have to work these things out. neil: congressman, good sport. appreciate it. just reminder. thought it's a good reminder for the congressman's point and president might forget himself.

he was trying to rally a number of key democrats, republicans to his side last night on health care when he was stunned by these developments of two more senators peeling off. republicans simply don't have a lot of wiggle room, folks. the fact of the matter is, this whole thing passed in the house, back in 2010 by a vote of 219-212. that shows you there were enough defections, 34 democrats defected and still they won it by the narrowest of margins. they had more wiggle room in the house. they certainly had more wig billion room in -- wiggle room n the house and that makes a difference. i point this out, we're going into the next battle to repeal it, that is whole another debate and going into the whole tax cut thing where margins are narrow as they can be. despite majorities, how big of a majority? they don't have a big one, to charlie gass how that plays out what do you think?

>> i don't know why the president was so surprised mike lee defected. we were getting word, i sent you an email from my congressional sources -- neil: i think timing of defection. they thought they could rope him in. >> mitch mcconnell was allegedly good at that. he was making noise this is weekend he was a no vote. what they were trying to do get someone like susan collins a yes vote which was huge leap. neil: never going to happen. >> never going to happen. neil: she was at a cyndi lauper concert, did you see that. >> while this was going down? well. you know, i would have -- neil: i digress. >> i would have gone to a black sabbath concert. neil: i can see you there. what is happening now, charlie? what are you hearing on tax cut thing. they want to move fast. congress wants to move. what do you think? >> talking about pivoting to tax cuts. neil: they have to pivot fast. >> neil, here is the thing, during the campaign president trump said, told, we're going,

obamacare is disaster. i'm going to get you a solution that is going to make your head turn. remember he used those terms, make your head spin. going to be the greatest thing in the world. neil: gasparino will be surprised i'm doing so great. >> he had no plan. he farmed it out to the senate didn't do anything -- neil: he did entrust them, they have been dabbling this for seven years, surely you guys had something ready. >> what was legislative agenda. president obama, obamacare is disaster. it is socialism. it is moving towards socialized medicine. neil: put you down as maybe. >> think about it, he pushed it pragmatically and sort of overa period of time where he was able to get what he he needed to get. neil: but i think, much like a new president comes in, jfk famously trusted all the generals who said this bay of pigs thing new idea. east send hour wrote off on this. i'm not meaning to make excuses

for donald trump. he came in, look, mr. president. we have a plan to do health care. there is reason for this. we need trillion dollars revenue, you know the whole drill over 10 years. we have to do this first. we're well along. we have a plan. he might have trusted them. you think -- >> did he really have a plan? there was no plan. neil: there wasn't, right. my point i think those days are gone. i don't think he is going to put trust in these guys anymore. i think he will come up with his own tax plan and ram it down their throats. >> hopefully. one advantage on taxes he does have a plan. it was written by art laffer, larry kudlow and steve moore. it is right there. it is about 15% corporate tax rate. neil: it mimics brady's, not too far off from brady's. >> bells and whistles they have to to debit but there is a plan. why didn't they go with their best hand? their best hand was taxes. neil: absolutely. >> there is budget savings in

obamacare. you will never unravel this monstrosity in a day. neil: where i give the president some slack. i think he thought, this is you how congress works. he is a new president. no experience. comes in, trusts all these, we've been working on this for seven years. we've got something ready to go. we've got a plan. >> they never said that. neil: well, but they had something they felt could unite the house and senate which it never happened you're right. i think now he is going to have like this jfk awakening i can't trust these guys. i have got my own idea on taxes. the question then going forward, will it work? will we see some action this year. >> he will need them. they want to do it. everybody in congress is talking about pivot towards tax cuts. neil: these guys can't pivot to save the day. >> i tell you, better thing with tax cuts, maybe why the markets are not going insanely down today, there is a plan. markets like that, 15% corporate

tax rate. and they like lower taxes. now there is a plan. push it. here is the thing. if he doesn't get tax cut or health care, by the way, that is, with republican congress -- neil: oh, inexcusable. inexcusable. i'm just saying there are moderates who are very, very much against sweeping tax cuts, big tax cuts. these are the same ones pushing keeping these taxes a key part of obamacare in the health care alternative. there are still ones who are pushing for going slow on easing taxes on the rich and -- >> okay but i think there is some unanimity on corporate tax rates. there is no doubt, u.s. has highest corporate tax rate. neil: you saw this months ago, in the end they might just get corporate tax thing which it better than nothing. etter than nothing. probably good for the economy. neil: we'll see. not everything that we want. >> no. i have already bought my maserati on my personal tax cut. neil: personally won't affect

your business expenses which are extraordinarily. >> you see them all the time. neil: buddy, thank you very, very much. he was way ahead of a lot of these trend. i did mention not necessarily slam-dunk on the tax thing. something could it will graph, moo reading between the lines and weeds here. house budget committee has already looked to submit a budget of its own, sort of a telegraph where their thinking is. it calls for a lot of cuts in government programs and all which conservatives like. a number of moderates say this is going nowhere fast. we don't like it. does any of that ring a bell with any of you? this is not a slam-dunk. more after this. i'm ryan and i quit smoking with chantix.

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neil: getting impression with this donald trump, jr. meeting last year, did they hold it at a convention center? they have identified what appears to be the 8th man in trump, jr., meeting which has gotten interest, a number of russians are there. count this as fourth russian. john roberts is reporting that attorney scott balber, the 8th man in the donald trump, jr. gathering is a fellow named ike kaveladze. works for the crocus group.

fourth russian at that meeting if you include i guess the translator. what to make of that. how significant that is, i'm going to let the wonks pick apart. it has not done anything to affect the dow one way or another. they are concerned, investors more concerned with undoing of that health care repeal and replace effort. they're going to revisit it. that seems to be more pressing concern so they get moving on tax reform, all of that, to blake burman at the white house on that. hey, blake. reporter: lost on this day, somehow all the drama involving health care reform is pretty big document that was put forth by house republicans earlier today. that is the budget resolution that they released on this day. here is why this is important. it has a direct link to the fate of tax reform going forward. here is how. when you work through the mechanisms of all of this. in order to use reconciliation,ç the process we now know because of health care reform, for senators to get 51 votes

theywill try to use reconciliation. the only way to do reconciliation if a budget resolution is put forth. that is the first step that the house enacted or at least triggered on this day. the house has to put forward its budget resolution. the senate as well. they have to come to some sort of a compromise. that ball started rolling today. however there are already concerns in the house that this doesn't add up, doesn't measure up. for example the leader of house freedom caucus mark meadows from what he saw he doesn't think there are enough votes for the thing. concerns that he cites, not enough spending cuts and that he wants or he wants, at least other members as well want better idea how tax reform would look going forward. in fact, neil, i just received an email about a minute before coming on air with you, from spokesperson of another member of house freedom caucus, that that member is an deed leaning no. i was told this is meaning the

budget resolution and how the house freedom caucus moves forward is certainly an outstanding issue going forward. as i mention this all ties in with tax reform and how that moves going forward. the vice president mike pence was out front earlier today, outlining administration priorities. >> we'll cut taxes across the board for working families, small businesses and family farms. we'll simplify the tax code by cutting seven brackets down to three. we'll eliminate the alternative minimum tax. we'll make the code flatter and fairer and simpler for everyone. president trump's plan is to slash business tax rate to 15%. reporter: but first to get reconciliation you need a budget resolution put forth by house republicans today. going forward there is a mark-up tomorrow and likely a vote will happen in committee on thursday. neil? neil: wow, they're having divisions on this already within a committee. can you imagine how tough of a sell this whole thing will be.

blake, thank you very. much. blake, thank you. freedom caucus has issues with the budget plan, they argue not cutting spending enough, so-called tuesday group they say it cuts it too much. to cns editor terry jeffrey, what this could be telegraphing? terry, could this be the health care thing all over again? >> it very well could be politically, neil. conservatives are on the right side of health care and on the right side of this. if you look at the budget document that the house budget committee put out they're aiming to balance the budget 10 years from now when many of these guys won't be in congress anymore. by the way 10 years from now they balance the budget, will only do it by $9 billion. they will spend 5 trillion and have a $9 billion surplus. that assumes they don't spend a

single penny on war on terrorism. it is completely unrealistic. yet at the same time in their budget, excessive spending the government is doing is immoral because replacing this massive burden of debt on future generations we'll have a crisis, they are absolutely correct in the way they describe the fiscal situation the country is facing but they're not realistic in proposals they're making to solve it. neil: you know the worst thing, terry, you know you alienate everyone when you offend everyone. whatever initiatives taken kick off conservatives and moderates you wonder who is left? they're making a good-faith effort to get spending somewhat curtailed, should stress growth in spending, 200 billion over next 10 years. to call for a surplus in the 10th year in 2027 of about $9 billion, when we're looking interim, looking at 6, 7,

800 billion-dollar deficits, that is a stretch. >> well it is. the republican leadership does understand the fiscal situation facing the country. they understand it is dire. they describe it accurately in their budget but there is absolutely no way to bring liberals or moderates along in a gentle political process to achieve the kind of solutions we need to achieve. there has to be a massive fight over this. we need political leadership in washington that goes out and tells the american people what the republicans say in their budget. we're headed toward a fiscal crisis. because the federal government is spending too much. because their economic growth is too tepid. we need policies that seriously cut federal spending at the same time increase growth. and that is going to take a national debate that is going to be intense. it is not clear that the republicans want to go out to have that debate. they need to do it. neil: you know, i almost get a sense that republicans are

afraid of their own shadow. there is always division within the party. the numbers as i stressed at the beginning of the show, they don't have enormous wiggle room democrats had in 2008 election and had almost 60 senators and at least 20 more congressman than republicans in their majority. they could afford to lose people and they did. it is interesting that there are moderates against almost any cut in programs, even growth in those programs, yet that could, water down whatever tax cuts, for example, we see, what do you think of that? >> i agree. i think it is because those moderates fear the liberal press more than they fear their own voters. even those moderate republicans were not sent to washington, d.c., to grow the government, to excessively tax the people, to hold down economic growth. thatç is not why they were sent to d.c., but they fear that the way this will be defined will be by "the washington post" and

cnn. and they think that they will go back and have debate they can't win. that is why republican leaders and conservative leaders need to come forward, force a debate, let's have a national fight over this, that really clarify what is at stake. if you do that, you win. but it is up to the republican leaders to do that. if they lead and they fight, they can bring moderates over. but if they are passive about this, unwilling to take on liberal media they will lose. one thing president trump has done extraordinarily well, go after the liberal media. paul ryan and mitch mcconnell should do it too. neil: they will never like you, so don't ever trying to get them to. very good seeing you again, terry jeffries, cns news editor. you heard by now netflix and off the chart numbers they have, five plus million more subscribers, people who joined up worldwide, why if you're a cable company, that could be hello for you, after this. i joined the army in july of '98.

our 18 year old was in an accident. when i call usaa it was that voice asking me, "is your daughter ok?" that's where i felt relief. we're the rivera family, and we will be with usaa for life.

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neil: man, oh, man, remember this company was given up for dead? it was hiking monthly rates, it had to roll it back matter of time before you stick a fork in it. that was then. a few billion in market value later, netflix hitting all-time high on easy earnings beat, likes of amazon, hulu, facebook, ramp upstreaming efforts as well, let cable companies no, hello, we're out there? tech analyst peter shankman and shanna glenzer. peter your view, traditional cable companies better wake up, right? >> take a step back 10 years. sitting in cable meeting hbo, they're going what is our biggest fear? saying things like tivo and dvr.

i guarranty it you would be kicked out of the room saying amazon getting 16 emmy nomination. anyone can create content. if content is good enough they can bring over big name stars and convert users. cable companies should be scared to death. neil: owing to peter's point, when "house of cards" came on netflix, i love kevin spacey, i oh, what happened kevin, what is going on with your career? look at him now. it is all the rage. i'm wondering what the message will be. not as if traditional companies like this one, and destiny of course, that have a lot of content, don't have options. what are the options now, in light of what netflix is doing and amazon and others? >> i think traditional companies need to look the way they're packaging great content they already have, making it seem accessible, making seem high value, low cost.

and for companies that are in this streaming space or in any space, producing this buzz worthy content, right, that is gets attention, whether people, controversial content, like "13 reasons why" on netflix or getting emmy nominations that is creating a buzz, getting people of all ages, across the world now to tune in. neil: so i'm netflix and to peter's earlier point, i'm sitting at a board meeting, i'm wondering about the landscape, who is my threat? >> well, i think your threat is going to be your budget, neil, because they are bringing in, as you said hoards of new subscribers, 5.2 million just last quarter. 4.1 million of those offshore outside of -- neil: who should netflix worry about? who should they worry about? they they are the masters of

their little universe. >> they have to worry about the golden age of content. this is the golden age of television back in the '40s, '50s has nothing what is going on right now. they have to worry about amazon. they have to worry about, they have got to worry about hulu. they have to look at all these smaller stations like fx putting out like like great content. those are people nipping at their heels. they're doing good job cutting back. they cut five shows in the last, two shows in the last two months. only five in the last five years. so they're getting better paring back their content, neil. neil: go ahead, shanna. >> i think one of netflix's biggest challenges is the platform, the platform itself, innovation. there is this overwhelming amount of content. i go to netflix, i'm like, if i don't know that i want to watch a specific show, i go to netflix, what the heck do i do on here? it is not like flipping a channel when you're tired, just want to watch some television.

that is, making that even more intuitive in their platform, letting people who don't know what they want to watch, watch a few minutes of a show will be important for them going forward. neil: we can also learn, at times all this programing will cost money. hook up and get these stars. i am thinking disney problems with espn and runaway costs made up, in other areas of the business, don't mistake what i'm saying here. peter, eventually not only going to be content after, what does netflix be aware of not get too arrogant? >> netflix has to look at facebook, facebook has one billion, two billion users what can we do get in front of regular users. i was binging nurse jackie, had it on one screen, one tab through netflix. on other tab i had my email. if something sounded interesting i should been watching, opposed

to interestings, i flipped over. facebook is almost open on everyone's computers. 70% of the people have facebook open on browser almost all times. what can netflix do to get to the audience. not a question going somewhere else to deliver that content. neil: interesting, interesting. guys, thank you all very, very much. again snapshot in time. a moment in time. ever he one has its dominant player in time. remember prodigy, aol. all that could change. history proves that. we are in middle of this earnings season. biggies coming out ibm, united, "after the bell," watch all of that after the closing bell. these guys are great at it. will give you a running count where we stand in this. i think overall earnings are averaging about 6 to 7% growth year-over-year, which isn't off the charts but it beats underwater, doesn't it? ari fleischer was telling me the media lost all of it is credibility. we might have just seen the proof after this.

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get started for free at ancestry.com. >> the problem now anything russia the press runs to scandal. my problem the watergate comparison, enron comparison, everything is a scandal comparison. one of the reasons the president lost credibility with the american people, everything is a scandal. neil: they're brought up on that, you're right there is no comparison yet, dismissed by administration, later on to come to find there is more there there. >> we found the press overreacted and there was less there there. neil: ari fleischer is saying all this hullabaloo, about another scandal in the making or collusion crisis or watergate in the making everyone calm down. that is not view widely shared in the media which is sniffing something, especially these latest developments of an 8th guest at that donald

trump, jr., meeting and he was a russian. so "daily caller" news foundation editor chief chris bedford says everyone step way, way back. chris, good to have you, but the media won't let go. what do you make of that? >> they won't let go. for conservatives and republicans looking at this may seem familiar over the years, when president barack obama was president we had a lot of different scandals and small things, something that conservatives almost always did was massive, massive overreach. lost interest of the american people. now today you see that coming from democrats. don, jr., in this meeting, donald trump, jr., was the meeting stupid? yeah. was it suspicious, even more suspicious than the average opposition research meeting which is always kind of weird? yes it was. people start throwing around accusations treason. american people tune out, that is really clear, that crime is defined in the u.s. constitution. it is clear it is not treason. neil: i agree with you on that, way too early to start talking like this?

does the media complicate the cause or when administration, chris, by arguing that there were no such meetings? lo and behold from donald trump, jr., himself, acknowledgement not only were there at least one, but he arranged it? >> this is another thing that should look familiar to conservatives looking at the other side. the donald trump administration is kind of doing a little bit what hillary clinton's campaign often, often did, sit on all the facts, let things drip out bit by bit. when that happens, even most innocuous thing -- neil: i agree. when this comes out, get it all out. everything that even hint, had a salad with russian dressing get it out there, you know what i'm saying, get it all out there. >> absolutely. if you wait too long, "new york times," "washington post," one of these organizations uncover that for you. they will paint the narrative. they will say how this looks and decide what it is. trump administration instead ought to come completely clean, tell people this is what happens. some will look stupid and

embarrassing like this last meeting did but it will not look like treason. neil: meantime i want to switch to health care. we're getting a -- from the white house, rework on senate health care, disappointed republicans did not repeal and replace obamacare. goes on to say we were very disappointed because we had been hearing about repeal and replace for seven years but said republicans who came out against the health care plan were not being disloyal. he is walking a bit of a fine line there, frustrated, not taking it out on the team just yet. what do you make of that? >> he is frustrated. people read a little in, wow, donald trump attacking gop. we know what a donald trump attack looks like. it is really obvious. this is more gentle pushing. what is interesting, i have never seen conservatives quite as energized as they were by republican failure as i have seen today and late last night. my phone started blowing up around midnight.

i had to jump out of bed to write a story. conservatives always want to go with clean repeal. they thought the horse trading necessary for the senate to do repeal and replace would total water it down. guys like rand paul and heritage action have been arguing. now they have mitch mcconnell, president trump and vice president pence all in their corner. neil: do you think they will be a little more on point on the tax thing? i'm getting a sense from the reaction from conservatives and moderates to what the house budget committee come up with on a budget over next 10 years, they both hate it for example? that they are still a long way from unanimity there? >> they are. tax reform is something that a lot of people in the senate wish they tackled first now. tax reform is likely going to be even harder than obamacare. i think what things the republicans have going for them here, moderates, as well as conservatives, if they get repeal done from obamacare. get it off the table, put two year long runaway, accomplish this come up with a solution.

without has trading or grand assistanting, they can bring moderates an conserve activitieses to come up with a true republican health care plan and get to tax reform before the next election comes around. neil: we'll watch it very closely. business bedford, "daily caller" news foundation. >> into this had repeal effort is not just a slam-dunk. republican senator murkowski is not keen on it. susan collins says you don't want to leave people hanging. that doesn't indicate she would not vote against repeal effort. it was only susan collins voted against republican repeal effort. the argument might be the same as moderates causes too much disruption. i would point out if you think the repeal is a slam-dunk, think again. more after this. ♪ ♪

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taking it out on all republicans here. mcclatchy newspaper white house correspondent joining us now. i'm sorry if i completely bashed your name, franco. >> not at all. you actually did good. neil: republicans had truth be told, seven, eight years to come up with something and haven't. >> indeed. it has been seven years when republicans pushed all that time. most ran on this measure. donald trump talked about it throughout his campaign. he was the great deal maker. promised this would happen. it has been setback after setback. there were times they thought something could happen. it has been a challenge and today's news, his coming out and kind of criticizing or expressing some frustration with the republicans i think is very telling. neil: it is interesting too, everyone thought at least a repeal vote would be a slam-dunk.

lo and behold republican senator murkowski would vote against any such motion. others of a moderate bent might feel the same way. that would be a different cue from 2015 when they voted minus susan collins of maine. there might be more that concern this would be disruptive. what do you think of that? >> i think it is very interesting. there is a little bit of change in the message. i think so much of the concern over the last seven years was about the escalating prices of health care. the concerns, i'm not sure if republicans really jumped on that message. i think there was concern in the republican party that they couldn't make a promise that this new health care plan would actually lower people's premiums. and i think there was fear that wouldn't happen. and then obviously you had the cbo report. neil: didn't materialize. we'll come back to you, my friend. i want to go to the president. this is the spray from the meeting going on at the white house.

>> disappointed, very disappointed. >> [inaudible] >> i don't think it is dead but certainly disapa pointed for seven years i've been hearing repeal and replace from congress. i've been hearing it loud and strong. when we finally get a chance to repeal and replace they don't take advantage of it. so that is disappointing. i would say i'm disappointed what took place. it will go on and we'll win, we'll win on taxes. we'll win on infrastructure and lots of other things that we're doing. we've won, and are winning the war on the border. we're very much decimating isis. you can see that. you see that better than anybody sees he it. soldiers with us today. we've had a lot of victories but we haven't had a victory on health care. we're disappointed, i am very disappointed, again even a civilian for seven years i've been hearing about health care. and i've been hearing about repeal and replace, and obamacare is a total disaster.

some states have over 200% increase, 200% increase in their premiums, and their deductibles are through the roof. it is absolute disaster. i think you will also agree that i've been saying for a long time, let obamacare fail and then everybody will have to come together to fix it. and, come up with a new plan and a plan that is really good for people with much lower premiums, much lower costs, and much better protection. i've been saying that, mike, i think you will agree for a long time. let obamacare fail. it will be a lot easier. i think we're probably in that position we'll just let obamacare fail. we're not going to own it. i'm not going to own it. i can tell you the republicans will not own it. we'll let obamacare fail it. democrats will come to us, say how do we fix it, how do we fix it, or how we come up with a new plan. we'll see what happens. there are some other things going on right now as we speak. but i am disappointed because, for so many years i've been

hearing repeal and replace. i'm sitting in the oval office right next door, pen in hand, waiting to sign something and i will be waiting. and eventually we're going to get something done and it will be very good but obamacare is a big failure and it has to be changed. we have to go to a plan that works. we have to go to much less expensive plan in terms of premiums. and something will happen. it will be very good. may not be as quick as we had hoped but it is going to happen. okay? [shouting questions] >> well they were not disloyal. they had their own reasons. i was very surprised two folks came out last night because we thought they were fairly good shape but they did. everybody has their own reason. if you think about it, you look at it, we have 52 people. we had no democrat support which is really, something that should be said.

we should have democrats voted for a great plan for a lot of people. we had no democrat support. we are 52 people, we had 4 no, sir. we had another one in there, the vote would be pretty close, 48-4. that is a pretty impressive vote by any standard. and yet you have a vote of 4-4 or something like that -- 48-4 and you need more, that is pretty tough. in 18 we'll have to get more people elected. we have to go out and get more people elected that are republican and we have to probably pull in those people, those few people that voted against it. they will have to explain to you why they did. i'm sure they will have fine reince. we have to get more republicans elected. we have to get it done. we have to pass it in the house. you can't use his head as a stand, right? we don't want to have that happen.

you're messing with the wrong guy here. we want, we want, i think we'll do very well actually in 18. i would not be surprised if something were done long before that. in any event because the margin is so small, the majority margin is so small. we'll have to get more republicans elected in '18. i will work very hard for that to it happen, okay? it would be nice to have democrat support, really they're obstructionists. they have no ideas. they have no thought process. all they want to do is obstruct government and obstruct period. in this case, think of it, so many good things, we didn't get one vote and their plan has failed. and by the way, obamacare isn't failing. it is failed. it is gone. so i think something is going to happen. we'll find out, stay tuned. thank you very much. neil: all right. frustrated president trump indicating right now that he wishes it could be another way but it wasn't.

he was referring to disappointment last night when senator mike lee and jerry moran of utah, kansas respectively came out as no votes. that made it 48-4. there was very little wiggle room. we mentioned outside of the show, republicans did not enjoy nearly 60 vote margin case for democrats when they concocted this in the senate in 2010. they had a more wiggle room if people peeled off. republicans not so fortunate. nevertheless the party falling apart on this, very optimistic the president said, democrats will come back to republicans after this falls weight of its own math. adam shapiro latest on what happens now. hey, adam. reporter: hey, neil, the question now, it is apparent repeal something is not going to happen, i want to go a little out of order. . .

.. it's not over, as you heard the president say. there were the tweets this morning which gave us to a precursor to what he just said, first in a tweet with only a very small majority, the republicans in the house and senate need more victories next year since dems totally obstruct, no votes. as i have always said, let obamacare fail and then come together and do a great health care plan, stay tuned. and then republicans should just repeal failing obamacare now and work on a new plan that will start from a clean slate. dems will join in.

maybe, maybe not. here's how mitch mcconnell said the future looks as far as health care reform. and then you're going to hear from minority leader chuck schumer who says dems might join in. >> a majority of the senate voted to pass the same repeal legislation back in 2015. president obama vetoed it then. president trump, president trump will sign it now. >> the door to bipartisanship is open right now. not with repeal, but with an effort to improve the existing system. the door is open right now. republican leadership only needs to walk through it. >> reporter: so, neil, let me wrap up for you. we heard mitch mcconnell two weeks ago open that window that perhaps they would have to do a plan with the democrats. you just heard chuck schumer say they're willing to work, but repeal can't be on the table. the democrats have said if you say repeal, forget it.

how they get to the next step is anyone's guess, but perhaps this failure because lisa murkowski is now the third vote for just repeal, that would give mitch mcconnell political cover to say, look, we tried it this way, we have to do something. but the president said let it collapse, then the democrats will have to come to us and rebuild this health care system. neil: so it sounds there are what he's also saying, adam, if that math is true on the three no votes here, i have no reason to doubt it, that there's no interest certainly on the president's part to going back to the well here, the health care fix well, that they would go right on to tax cuts. is that doable? >> reporter: it is doable to go on to tax cuts. i don't want to get into too much of the weeds, but right now we're operating under the 2017 budget resolution. that allows for the health care reform through the reconciliation process. forget that track. we have to get a 2018 budget resolution, and then we're off and running on tax reform. so two separate tracks but, yes, they

this can now be pushed to the side, and they can put full focus on tax reform. neil: to that a budget resolution, the house budget committee starts that process rolling, submitting today what it calls a building a better america blueprint, if you will, a $4 trillion blueprint at that that will call for the balance in the budget by the tenth year so that now averaging 5, 6, $700 billion deficits by 2027, a $9 billion surplus built on some spending cuts that would total better than $200 to billion. a lot of these in food stamp-related programs that conservatives are saying already is not enough, and moderates are saying it's too. too much. also forecasts growth of 2.5-2.6% well under what the president thinks could be 3% growth. the fact that conservatives and moderates are already disagreeing over this can give

you an idea of what's to come over this. red alert politics editor ron meyer and lauren zell on what happens now. lauren, whatever differences we saw emerge on health care could pale compared to what we're seeing already on the budget setting the stage for tax cuts front. >> right. well, you know, we've seen all spring as tax reform has been discussed divisions within the party. but what's important to remember is that when he was elected, president trump promised tax reform for americans to help businesses create jobs and to get our economy going again. so we can't lose sight of the goal. yes, there is some discrepancy in how we're going to get there. you know, all spring we've been talking about the border adjustment tax and whether or not that would with be a provision of the plan. that seems to be on to its last legs. you saw vice president pence this morning speaking at the national retail federation

talking about tax reform, the border adjustment tax was not a part of his discussion, nor is it a part of the white house plan. so, yes, we do have divisions. i think the important hinge to do here is to focus on reforms, on ways we can eliminate government waste and spending. but we will be able to come together on this. it's critical. the president made a promise on it, and especially after what we've seen with health care in the last 24 hours, it is going to be critically important to get this done for the american people. neil: logic would dictate that to your point, lauren, but, ron, the lead that's kind of buried here is that even the repeal effort that most thought would be doable, because they all thought, even supercollins agreed -- susan collins agreed, and now three have been peeled off. what do you make of all of this? >> when trump said we have to mean america great again, i think he also meant we need to take it back to a time when republicans and democrats worked together. in 1986 when ronald reagan passed health care reform, he got 74 votes in the senate.

we had bipartisan support for tax reform. we got almost 300 votes in the house the same year for tax reform, and now we're talking about this whole resistance movement. and it's not only dividing the democrats and republicans, it's dividing the republicans amongst themselves because they can't work with democrats or this resistance mentality. neil: they can't work with each other. one of the things that surprises me here is the fact that conservatives are saying the 200 or so billion that the house budget committee has come up with, that's not nearly enough. and now the two-state group, largely moderates, are saying, no, no, you're going way too far. >> yeah. neil: so the conservatives and the moderates aren't on the same page with themselves -- >> well, it's all a negotiation. neil: i understand, i understand, but they're negotiating with themselves. >> it wouldn't be like that -- it took time for the reagan tax reform to come together, right? there were disagreements and people were brought together, but they were brought together by a president who took the initiative and led it.

president trump says he supports this and he supports tax reform and he supports obamacare. he's got to take -- neil: he's got to take the initiative -- [inaudible conversations] neil: to his point, ronald reagan did take that initiative. we know the president, this is an issue near and dear to him. he's very familiar with tax cuts, he knows his business and what they are. all hopes happening on him, right? >> that's true. one thing i want to talk about too and go back to your point about obamacare, i think republicans moving forward need to be very, very wary of any promises they hear from the democratic side on obamacare. i saw chuck schumer this morning about how it was time for republicans to come together and work with democrats. here's the problem with that. democrats understand that obamacare is going to fail. it is in a death spiral, and they know that moving forward things are only going to get worse. they're interested in moving towards a single-payer system. so while i understand that we want to work together on health care, i think that everyone just needs to take the words of senator chuck schumer and others --

neil: well, you might be right, but, ron, my biggest worry right now with republicans is republicans. that they don't have their act together, that's my thing. >> yeah. here's the thing, mark begich, senator from alaska, lost re-election because he supported obamacare. now lisa more i kousky, a republican -- she ran as an independent and won the write-in campaign, you have to remember she's saying right out the gate that she's not for repealing obamacare even though mark beg itch just lost his election because he voted for obamacare. i think this is tough waters for her to be going into, because i don't think alaskans are happy with the way obamacare's working, and her killing repeal, i think, is bad news for her and her future re-election prospects. neil: obviously, they're weighing all of this stuff. i want to thank you very, very much. in the meantime, stockings are down about 100 points here. it's the dollar that took the real hit today, of course, going into today's trading it was tanking, at a ten month low. that's a global read on us not

having our proverbial governmental act together here. that can be short-lived, because technology stocks are doing just fine, thank you. is in the beginning -- is this the beginning of a market letdown, tax cuts are delayed, maybe even denied? to todd horowitz, what do you think? >> hi, neil. you know, i think that we're seeing, you know, trump would like to see a lower dollar, yellen would like to see a lower dollar, so they're continuing to try to push the dollar down. now we've seen a market that's pushed itself down to probably the lower limits. 94 should be about the low of the dollar. you tie it into everything that's going wrong here, and we should let the senate and the house put themselves on obamacare instead of their own private health plan, and we might get it solved. in the meantime, tax cuts look way off in the future because they can't get together. they're not going to get a vote and put the package together. how are they going to get the package to go? neil: all right, let's talk about that. already we're seeing, and this is something that can telegraph

where the whole tax thing can go, but the procedure the house budget committee has to come out with its idea for a budget for the next fiscal year. it's not a guaranteed blue print p it often changes. sometimes markedly so. but already conservatives are saying it isn't cutting enough, moderates are saying it cuts too much, and that within the republican party. so i'm wondering, like man, oh, man, just these broadest of blue prints, and you're not remotely on the same page. how are you going to get on the same page when it comes to the tax cuts? some in the party want sweeping, big ones, substantial ones to make a difference, others saying they've got to be paid for right up front because we don't want to go crazy on the deficit. how's wall street going to react if they have a flop on that? >> i think wall street has priced in all the good news, so i think that wall street will have a very bad reaction. but i think it's fairly obvious that they're never going to work together because there's so much on opposite sides. trump, i think, is doing a

terrific job at trying to put together, but he can't even get help from his own party. the ones we know about and the ones that don't know about are back stabbing a little bit. we can't get together on anything. i don't think they could get together on having a cup of coffee -- neil: but, todd, you said the markets are kind of factoring some of this in. are they factoring the possibility we get no tax cuts at all or no tax cuts this year? >> i think right now they're still factoring that they do get it done. i think if we don't get it done, you'll see these big tech stocks, the market start to fall apart. we're already seeing pressure on the bankings. they just made new high, but they're coming down. we have five stocks that continue to drive the market every day, amazon, netflix, tesla and the like. but at the end of the day, the markets are not really that strong underneath. and certainly, the economy is not that strong. these earnings are being built through contraction, not being built lu growth. that's a real problem. neil: all right. todd, thank you very much. >> thank you, neil.

of. neil: to add a little bit to the selling pressure here, not much, on news that even a repeal effort would seem like a gimme is not a gimme anymore with three republicans dead set against the idea of repealing obamacare even though the republican plan was to come up with an alternative the next couple years. some of the concern among susan collins, lisa murkowski, is you'd leave people not knowing what the status of their health care is or for their own health security. so that's going nowhere. not only did the health care effort to come up with an alternative fail, but even the repeal effort is going nowhere. everything now, everything, i'm telling you, hedges on get -- hinges on getting something done on taxes. can they? will they? after this. ♪ ♪

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neil: all right, it looks like that repeal effort failed really just so soon after it lookedded like the effort to replace obamacare failed. now three republican senators against any such move to do that right now, saying it would be disruptive to the system with just three peeling off. that shows you the very narrow wiggle room republicans have with their 52-48 margin in the senate. you've got three peeling off, it's off. so that repeal effort fails.

they're going to have to revisit this another day, the attention now focused on whether they can get any progress on taxes. to noel -- [inaudible] for how that is falling out among the fundraising set and daniel halper. welcome to both of you. noel, i'm sorry, you're looking at drama building on the hill, and i keep reminding myself, wait a minute, republicans, you run the show here. you have the white house. you have the house. you have the senate. i know in the case of the senate by narrow margins, but how do they go back to their constituents and say, remember the health care thing? can't do it right now. remember the repeal thing? now we can't do that right now. this is not good. >> no, neil, this is actually horrible. and we don't really have an excuse. and if we have one, i would really like to see it. i mean, we've each got the rnc chair coming out and saying, look, we got voted into office for this. you know, people voted on repeal and replace obamacare and tax

reform. and this is bad. but i think the problem is bigger. look, you know, the democrats unified, and they got together, and they passed obamacare. and like nancy pelosi said, they didn't even know what was in the bill, but they had one thing over us, they're in unity -- neil: and they did have bigger margins. i'm not making excuses for republicans, they did have bigger margins. but the fact of the matter is they did stay united. it's easy to stay united in the opposition now. republicans then, democrats now. dan, where is this going in the next phase, the battle over tax cuts? >> that's the key question, right? can they actually get anything done? there hasn't been much movement, right? and there's not much coming from the white house as far as actual, tangible actions and following through on things that they promised. i think with obamacare it sort of goes to the side because there's not much they can do. there'll be some sort of bipartisan groups forming, some sort sort of talks, how can we do it a third way.

but in order to get that done, they need to have some action on tax refomenter, as you suggest -- reform, as you suggest. if they had tried this approach to repeal it and sun setted it, they could have done that the first week of president trump's presidency. now it's obviously way too late to get any sort of momentum. neil: you know, noel, one of the arguments is there's far broader agreement on tax cuts than health care. i'm not entirely sure of that given the reaction that the house budget committee has gotten to its blueprint for a budget that conservatives are already railing against for cutting not nearly enough even with $200 billion in largely, you know, the government programs, domestic programs, and and moderates saying you're going way, way, way too far. so i guess the point being if health care was tough, it looks like tax cuts are going to be even tougher. >> well, you know, we'll never know because i think a lot of people i know, you know, i've

come on your show, and a lot of your guests have said i wish paul ryan would have started with tax reform, but he did not. neil: right. >> this sets up a bad play for what's coming up next, which is we're going to work on tax reform. we've got a lot of pressure. we've got a lot of pressure, you know, with markets to get tax reform right. we can't mess around with tax reform. we can't mess around on health care but, obviously, we fumbled the ball on it. so mow we're going to push that aside and head towards tax reform. we've got a lot of other pressures, you know, with tax reform that we don't have with health care. if we fumble the ball on both of this, i mean, i don't know -- neil: game over. no, game over, whether it's justified or not. it's game over. dan, we are waiting to hear from senate leaders on what next on health care. i have a pretty good idea if the president's indicating anything, that they just, you know, wait for the obamacare to just implode, or at least that's what he seems to think is going to happen. even a repeal effort will likely fail. what do they do? what's your sense of what they do on that?

>> they're going to try to, yeah, as you say, move it to the side and try to move on to other business, i think. that's my guess because there's no action on these other two proposals. neil: right. >> and so, you know, they need to do something on tax reform, obviously. i don't know if it's radical that they need to do -- neil: i think every today that goes by, dan, i'll defer to you and noel on this, every day it goes on, it gets less radical, you know what i mean? >> that's probably the case. and it'll probably with a simple tax cut because it'll be the easiest to pass, but it'll effect less and come short of their promise to radically reform the tax code and shorten it. neil: they're not going to do anything radical. i hope i'm wrong, noel, but my feeling is they might do something on the corporate front. the individual front, i don't know. that might be dicey. if that's the case, what do you think? >> you know, on tax reform and health care, both of them together, i will say one thing. the democrats are sitting back and kind of smirking and laughing and saying, oh, you know, the gop's going to fail.

but guess what? when they're up for midterm elections -- and people are going to look at the democrats. they're going to be like, well, you sat this defiance. you said you're not going to work with the republican party even though schumer says, you know, we're willing to work with you, door is open. they're not going to give a little, though, we know that. i think when it comes down to -- actually, i think if the republicans can't get along with health care and tax reform, i think we're going to have no choice but to go to the other side and work with the opposition like, you know, joe manchin and -- neil: well, there's nothing wrong with that, by the way -- >> but we're going to have to get it done. neil: we'll see. guys, i want to thank you very, very much. we are waiting for some of the leadership to get to the microphone, the republican leadership, i should say, what their next option is on health care. we are told right now that the votes are simply not there for the repeal effort, so within a span of a little more than 18 hours, the effort to come up

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neil: all right. we are waiting to hear on capitol hill from senate leaders. they're having their policy lunch and they'll map out their agenda after the apparent failure of coming up with a rework on a health care alternative to obamacare, the affordable care act. they were going to pursue immediately to a repeal effort because that is where they thought they had almost unanimous agreement. it turns out, not the case. again, this is where narrow margins in the senate can work against them as well. they can't afford to lose any more than two members, and when a third member said i don't think this repeal effort is a good idea, that was it. that torpedoed that.

they can always wrestle to try to get some votes and get that going, and the idea being that it would be a couple of years this they come up with a replacement, butst problematic. it sets the stage for dealing with individual taxes, a budget, trying to avoid running out of money in september with a clean debt ceiling agreement that the treasury wants to see. but not everyone, not all conservatives, for example, want to just let go without some spending riders or attachments or provisos there. markets are sort of taking this pretty much in stride, if you can call about a 90-point selloff in stride, but it would be a lot worse if you think about typical reactions to initiatives that wall street would like to see that don't pan out. charlie gasparino on why that might be the case. charlie? >> you know, neil, talking to institutional investors and traders today, the bottom line is this: neither the health care redo and not even the tax cuts are essentially priced into this market. so that's why you have the muted response to the health care, i guess, debacle.

we're not going to get health care reform, we're going to get something that doesn't really reform, maybe just repeals it. and that's why even when, you know, you talk about putting off tax cuts to next year, not happening soon or maybe not happening it, markets aren't totally going nuts on that because they're just not priced in -- neil: wait a minute, i'm sorry, i do want to continue that thought with you. i thought the runup since the election was based on we're going to get lower taxes, maybe comprehensive tax reform. no? >> some of it is yes and, you know, listen, there's a lot of reasons why the runup in the market, including the fact that you have a much more positive, business-friendly administration who's not heaping regulations on them. and you have relatively low interest rates. and on top of that, corporate earnings have been pretty good. neil: good point. >> that's all net positives. and maybe you get some tax cuts. but the notion of a 15% corporation tax rate, which is what a lot of business, a lot of investors want, is not really fully priced into this market. neil: do you think that's coming though?

do your folks say that's coming? >> there is a good chance. and i can tell you donald trump, the head of the national economic council held high-level meetings, i know people that were in the meetings, about pushing for that 15% corporation tax rate -- neil: that's what they really like, right? that drives them like anything else, right? >> even more so than the spring rates. they believe -- than the individual rates. they believe it'll be a positive for the markets because, as you know, the markets react to the economy growing and corporate earnings growing . be you're the average investor, this is where it gets interesting. there's going to be upside surprise if they get any tax reform. markets will likely rip higher, and that's when you have to make your determination when you say in or -- stay in or leave. because there's going to be a pullback. you know, it takes time for these, for corporate taxes, lower corporate taxes to filter into the economy and earnings and all the stuff that will lead to higher stock prices eventually.

there is a potential huge upside surprise if they get something. and remember, it's all negative now. but i just -- keep your eye on the corporate tax rate. that is a big thing. if they can get that, these markets rip higher. that's the conventional wisdom. neil: all right, buddy, thank you very much. charlie gasparino. let's bounce that off congresswoman marsha blackburn. thank you for taking the time. >> sure. neil: what do you make of the fact that the markets seem to be betting that at the very least they're going to see lower corporate taxes this year? do you believe that? >> i believe the markets do believe they're going to see lower tax rates this year. and one point that i would make is i think they're look at both the individual and the business side of that. of course, business has more impact for what they're looking at. but, neil, when you take it to the consumer economics side, what you get is individuals being able to reset their withholding. going back to the first of the year, they are able to take home more every pay period. that means they're going to be

spending a little bit more as well as, hopefully, saving some. neil: you know, congresswoman, we're just learning that senate majority leader mitch mcconnell says he still wants a vote to proceed with a straight obamacare repeal -- >> yes. neil: -- even though it looks now with three republican senators coming out against such an effort that it would fail. what do you think of that? >> leader mcconnell should put it on the board and go forward with something so that we can get into conference on this. the house made a commitment to this. we have to meet our promises. the senate made the same commitment. and we would like for them to proceed and go to conference with us on this. neil, the health care insurance marketplace is imploding. if we do nothing, 44% of counties in this country next year are going to have zero or one -- neil: oh, no, you're right. you sound like you're frustrated with your senate republican colleagues. >> we are a little bit.

you know, they do to need that honey-do list and a deadline so that they can get in there and get this work done. and we need them the come to the table. when my kids were growing up, we called it the family call. you had an issue, you had a problem, you call the family together. we sat at the kitchen table until we got it worked out. and that is exactly what our friends in the senate need to be doing, is to get this done. the american people expect it, they're right to expect it. we want to get on the path so that everybody in this country has access the not only affordable insurance, but affordable health care. they can see the doctor when they have insurance. neil: but, you know, interesting, congress woman, to your point here, the president seems to be as frustrated as you were and are by saying, look, let's just move on here. i'm parafraigz, but the white house indicating let this thing implode. he was referring to to obamacare, the democrats will come back to us. is that his way of saying, maybe

your way of thinking,, that the health care thing, you don't do anything until the democrats come to you? >> no. our door is open. we would love for the democrats to work with us and make this a bipartisan bill. but here is the thing with me and so many of my colleagues. we don't want it to implode. we do not want people and families to be put at risk. neil: well, he seems to be okay with that. he seems to be signaling -- >> i'm not okay with that. neil: so you disagree with the president on that. >> yes. i am not okay with putting people more at risk. i was talking to a constituent at a visitation on sunday, and i have to tell you, they've been through five insurance providers in four years. they're spending about $30,000 a year out of pocket before the insurance can kicks in to any good. neil: i think what the president is saying though, congresswoman, is, you know, democrats built that disaster. let them -- >> yes, they did. neil: that's what he's saying, you fix it. >> i don't want people to be put at risk. neil: okay.

>> i want individuals to have certainty. i want there to be stability. health care should be centered on the patient, the individual. and they and their doctor should be able to make those decisions. and i don't want people to be put in any more unstable environments in health care than they're already in. i mean, they're already suffering through these premiums. they can't buy the insurance without a subsidy. they are watching these costs go up. tennessee, the cost on insurance has gone up -- neil: you don't want to let go. >> you can't. you've got to fix it. neil: thank you very much. >> thank you. good to talk to you, neil. neil: all right. amazon, you're not imagining this, yesterday blue apron, it was tanking that stock because it's getting into that make your own meal motif here, just like with whole foods. is it getting a little too arrogant, a little too in your

face that it's going to get the government's attention? you know what that can mean. so does judge andrew napolitano, after this. ♪ ♪ experience uncompromising performance

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neil: all right. my friend, the judge, is back from italy. so it's good to see him. no sooner does he come back, than our whole country seems to be falling apart. [laughter] i want to get into that, but i'd be remiss if i didn't mention amazon. a lot of people think it's getting a little too big for its britches, trying to go into everyone's business here and closing out a lot of companies and whole sectors as it does. blue apron, the latest. of course, it hit the retail sector hard when it was looking to scoop up whole foods. judge andrew knoll low on all of that. that's the kind of stuff that gets the government's anticipation. >> it usually does, because the antitrust laws have a rule of thumb.

there's no numerical rule of thumb, but the general, stated rule of thumb is if the acquisition of bigness diminishes competition to is that the big guy can control price and flow of goods at the same time, horizontal and vertical, then it's time for the government to interfere. so is amazon that big that the government should interfere? i happen to like amazon because i get what i want, i get it efficiently, it arrives when it's supposed to arrive. but it has put other people out of business. i've got to tell you, this doing research for this, i came across amazon's latest which hasn't even been announced yet. you go to your physician, and the physician gives you a prescription, and he scans it in. and the prescription is at your home before you get there. neil: get out of here. >> he scans into it amazon which delivers it by drone -- neil: the whole pharmacy industry would to go -- >> correct. if amazon controlled the entire pharmacy industry, that would be

an exponential expansion and would almost certainly attract the attention of federal regulators. neil: i worry when they break into the tv news business. [laughter] i'm an amazon shareholder, just disclose that, but this kind of aggressive behavior -- obviously, i know what jeff bezos is rying to do, create this conglomerate that controls the whole world, but at what point does it get regulators' attention? >> there's no numerical point, it's just when they think the bigness gives too much power to one entity to control price and supply and movement -- neil: do they focus on the market fall? when it bought whole foods, the whole retail sector suffered. when it got into blue apron's business with packaged meals, it hit blue apron and other smaller players. do they focus on that or say, okay, that's a short-lived bump? >> i'm sorry to say it's sometimes political. and the classic case is the break-up of standard oil.

john d. rockefeller, by his acquisition of a lot of small oil companies lowers the price of oil so dramatically, it increased the standard of living for the wealthy, the middle class and for the poor. lowered the price of oil. they still broke it up because they didn't like one guy having that much control. neil: he still found ways around it with holding companies -- >> yes, he did. the point is even when the monopolist creates good for everybody, the government will sometimes still interfere if it is it is politically unwise not to interfere. neil: so if you are a republican president, you don't like to think our institutions respond politically there, but he does own "the washington post," not a friend to this administration -- [laughter] or perceived that way. what do you think? >> i would hope that the justice department would not make a decision on that basis, but they're human like the rest of us. neil: yeah. >> so i don't know where it's going to be go. neil: i was listening to you

earlier on my friend, stuart varney's, show, and you were talking about this whole health care back and forth. and outcut back to the very premise, does the government have an obligation, and you caught something brilliant, and i hope i got it right. when people now know that it is and and does and it's in that business, it's very hard to extract that. >> yes. when the public treasury becomes a public trough and the public knows that, they will only send to washington people that promise to bring back the biggest piece of pie. the constitution to the contrary not withstanding. former vice president biden had an interesting piece in today's washington post online arguing that health care is a right, not a good. and the government has the obligation to provide for it. i would have said, mr. vice president, where's that in the constitution? neil: well, they used that argument kind of to do all these mortgage rescues. housing became -- >> yes. so joe biden and barack obama have succeeded in establishing as a premise, as a baseline this federal obligation to get everybody health insurance

coverage. it doesn't exist in the constitution. neil: but it's too late for that, right? >> because we have given away so many goods. you get people accustomed to the federal trough, and you can't get them off it. neil: you can never unwind a government program. >> correct. there's nothing more permanent than a temporary government program. milton friedman. neil: yeah. ronald reagan, i'm from the government, i'm here to help. where is this all going? republicans look very amateurish. i know their margins are such, and we tried to point out that they have narrower margins than, for example, democrats enjoyed when they come up with obamacare, so much so that they could afford losing 39 representatives in the house who voted against it. but the republicans aren't so fortunate. >> you know, the concept of giving somebody a benefit that you can't take away is so strong that there are republicans in the senate who fiercely fought obamacare who are afraid to vote to undo it. because they want to get reelected.

neil: already been made on it, right? >> yes. you and i were talking during the break, we're going to see the same with tax reform. the more traditionalists, the small government types will say let's lower the tax rates, but it's got to be accompanied by spending reduction. the president's not going to do that, the the democrats are not doing to do that, two-thirds of the republicans are not going to do that, so it's not going to happen. neil: your friend rand paul, you must hate him now, right? he's destroying everything. >> i think he's a hero. and mike lee and ted cruz -- neil: you're not in the camp that says it's not perfect, but it's better than what we have -- >> if varney hears me say that, he's going to kick me off the show. neil: it's not that great a show. [laughter] i'm kidding, stuart! your point is anything they would have come up with would have been better than anything we've got, and now they'll never change it. >> they at least force debate.

rather than mitch mcconnell, and i don't want to blame him, crafting something in secret that none of us knows about, when these small government republicans say where is in this the constitution and they force the establishment to answer, we at least have a debate. that's a step in the right direction. neil: all right. this is the kind of crazy things they taught you at princeton, right? [laughter] >> that's why you have me here. [laughter] neil: all right. thank you very much. and as the judge and i are speaking, we're waiting to hear from senate leadership. this is interesting, they're still going to go with this vote on repeal even though it's a foregone conclusion it's going to fail. >> why would they do it? neil: i don't know. it's a mystery wrapped in a conundrum. more after this. your insurance company

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neil: all right. we're just getting word now the trump administration is announcing new sanctions on iran targeting ballistic missiles and support for terrorism. even on the heels of saying technically the country is honoring that nuclear deal we made under president barack obama a few years back. so this sounds a little confusing to me but fortunately, fred nice is here to educate me -- fred fleiss is here. we're not quite trusting what you're doing on the ballistic missile front, but we are, i guess, on the nuclear front?

educate me. >> well, neil, yesterday was a wild day at the white house. every 90 days the president has to certify that iran is in compliance with the 2015 nuclear deal and that the deal's in the interest of the united states. early in the day there was a decision for the president to approve that said we'll certify compliance, but we'll add sanctions. but then later in the day the president said he didn't like this agreement, and there was a fight through most of yesterday until late last night when the president finally said, okay, i'll certify, we'll go with the sanctions. but this pattern is not going to continue. so i've got to tell you, neil, this nuclear deal's in trouble, and these sanctions are just window dressing for what i think is a very bad decision. neil: how do we know they're complying? i know sometimes even if we want to visit some of the sites in question, we're lucky if we get there days, even weeks later. that's a lot of time to hide stuff. but how do we know they're up to something? >> well, senators cotton, per

due and cruz p sent a letter that made it clear the violations are significant, they're not miles per hour. iran is not allowing the iaea access to facilities, and that's where the nuclear weapons work is going on if it's taking place. it's producing too much heavy water which is used to produce plutonium. and i wrote about this and ambassador john bolton wrote about this, and apparently the president saw ambassador bolton's op-ed in the hill over the weekend, and that's when he tried to change his decision yesterday. neil: all right. but, you know, you're fighting this rush of diplomatic sort of blah, you know, that sates this is how we -- says this is how we do things, and you don't want to rip up or tear apart or redo a deal that's already been done, it's not the way the global players do it. what do you make of that? >> well, i mean, there's several arguments we can't get out of the deal because it's international, the european wills get mad -- europeans will get mad. europe didn't vote for this president.

we can put sanctions back, especially on allowing iran to buy nuclear missile technologies. and whether the u.s. can't back out of this deal because it's international, the u.s. is not obligated, the trump administration is not obligated to honor an agreement that is, frankly, a fraud. it does not actually stop iran's pursuit of nuclear weapons, and it was designed to go around the senate's authority to ratify treaties. is basically, these arguments we can't back out of it, i think they're absolutely illegitimate. neil: fred, i'm justin wondering this on top of what we're trying to get going on north korea where we have, you know, the world condemning that country's actions but doing very little to follow up on that, donald trumped had said, his secretary of state, rex tillerson, had said if we have of to act unilaterally, we will. nikki haley at the united nations saying much the same. what does that mean? that what we're going to do might mean doing something militarilien our own, alone -- militarily, on our own, alone? that could cause problems right

there. >> well, the europeans are going to be angry if we back out of this agreement, but i think we can forge a new alliance with europe, china, russia and our middle east allies. you know, saudi arabia and israel were very angry over this nuclear deal and, frankly, the obama administration hasn't explained why they negotiated this agreement with no input or approval by the nations most affected by it; the middle east states. let's put together a new alliance against iran that includes our middle east allies, not just europe, china and russia. neil: all right. do you think that sends the message to countries like north korea, you know, we can revisit you as well? >> i think so. and, frankly, i think this nuclear deal with iran is so bad, north korea would like one just like it. neil: oh, i'm sure. >> that's why i think we have to throw this agreement out. the president has to say, look, this is a bad deal, it's a fraud, and i'm not going to stand behind a fraud. neil: we'll see what happens.

fred fleitz. again, the sanctions is on ballistic missile work that technically are not in violation of that nuclear deal can, but offensive just the same. as fred indicated, there are other measures for which we really can't be sure the iranians are complying. what a world. more after this. >>

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neil: couple of things for

cheryl casone in for trish regan. waiting to hear for senate leadership what they're going to do. this whole senate attempt to rework obamacare failed. now apparently even idea of repealing it, which was considered a gimme, that looks like it will fail. the votes are not there. they will hold the vote anyway. a lot comes down as i said beginning of hour, republicans are getting bashed they have the run of the show, but they don't individual by much. their 52-48 margin in the senate isn't quite what it was for democrats when they had 60 yeas in 2009 versus 39 nays. we could see them lose 39 votes in the house as a result, 39 democrats and still come up with a victory. so of the margin does matter, especiallily when it gets close. we'll talk about that. what are options when it comes to taxes 4:00 p.m. eastern time. your world fox news. house ways and means chairman,

kevin brady. he is toiling hard on the tax alternative. is it still ready to go. when do they want to see it, and a lot going on there. cheryl casone with the dow down 72 points. markets fairly tame through all of this which is remarkable. >> that is remarkable, neil. will it hold up. that is the question. neil cavuto. thank you so much. neil: you got it. >> we are waiting to hear from senate leaders to talk more what is happening with the fate of health care cheryl: dow is down 71 points. we started session with better numbers. the more you delay health care