times reports that sean spicer has resigned as communications director of the white house. and by the way, "the new york times" also reports that spicer rejected the appointment of anthony scaramucci as his replacement. that's just happening right now. and so, too, is neil cavuto right now. sir, it's yours. neil: stuart, thank you. quoting "the new york times," that sean spicer has resigned, telling president trump that he vehemently disagreed with the appointment of anthony scaramucci as the communications director. now, there had been other incidents in the past, but this was apparently the coup de grace. the president offered mr. scaramucci this job earlier, and when sean spicer found out, he believed that the appointment was a major mistake, relayed that to officials within the administration. we're told the president himself had -- and ultimately decided to leave. i don't know of any bad blood from scaramucci towards spicer, but some of these changes come on the heels, of course, of

criticism on the way the administration has been handling its press briefings, done largely without television cameras, audio and even that on a delayed basis. the reaction to all of this right now, we haven't seen much movement in the dow upon these developments. it happened just in the last couple of minutes. but if you're looking for some sort of a signal, the markets certainly are not setting it. charlie gasparino, glenn hall, alex smith. welcome to all. gaspo. >> spicer does not surprise me, leaving, because he and scaramucci would be oil and water together. neil: do you know of any history between the two? >> very little. the history is actually between sean spicer's godfather, rabbi inside the trump administration, reince priebus and anthony scaramucci. that's where there's friction. and i've heard in recent days that president trump has been asking people, including anthony

scaramucci, what he thinks of reince priebus' job, how well he's doing. so -- neil: so he's sending those signals out there, right? >> there's been a lot of talk for a while about a shake-up that was coming, especially in communications. and i think this is the beginning of that. it doesn't surprise me there would be more, and the president himself may want to make more changes. neil: if you come in as communications director, and in the case had spicer not left, would he have been spicer's boss? >> i think you consider the two styles of these men. i had the privilege to work with sean at the rnc, and to my knowledge, you know, he's been a great director of the kind of communications that came out of the rnc and the trump campaign so successfully last -- >> tough job. neil: very tough job. >> what i will say is with anthony scaramucci, you know, this is a guy who comes from the business world. when he was a surrogate for the trump campaign and for the rnc last are cycle, we heard him talk a lot about trump as a businessman, as a dealmaker -- neil: but scaramucci was

considered for every other job but liaison for the pope, right? how did this get to be the final one? >> here's what happened. here's why sean spicer left and here's why -- listen, anthony has been, anthony was out, basically, annoyed enough people inside the administration with public comments that that, together with who he told skybridge, his funds company, asset management company, he sold it to the h and a. decent company, you know? they -- neil: by the way, he sold the company at the time because it was a requirement to be considered for a job. >> they're a chinese company that's in the news a lot lately because they're overleveraged. all of that combined put him on the outside. here's why this is a crazy appointment and why sean spicer's resigning. what you have done with putting anthony scaramucci down as communications director is overdoubled down on -- you've doubled down on donald trump both on his good parts and bad parts. good parts, amazing self-promoter. that's what anthony is, one of the best self-promoters in the

world. go to the salt conference, watch him on tv, watch all the other stuff he does. amazing self-promoter. but, like trump, he goes too far sometimes. >> think about how he's played it at davos, right? >> he was all over the place. neil: why is that a a bad thing? >> he was setting dollar policy like talking about monetary policy -- excuse me, exchange rate policy -- neil: so he's not discreet. >> like i said, the best and worst of donald trump is embodied in anthony scaramucci. and i'm telling you, sean spicer sat there and said i've got to put two genies back in the bottle? neil: and that's probably why clint's phone is going off. [laughter] mine too, buddy. ap is now confirming, washington post, everyone, that sean spicer has resigned and very clear why over the hiring of a new main occasions aide -- communications aide, that would be its deemed director, anthony scaramucci. the fallout from this when you begin writing stories would be what? >> you have to remember that

this job is the internal communications, working out within the government how things are communicated, who's communicating to whom. the press secretary is still the forward face of it. but this is a lot of conflict between these posts historically. >> i would say this, go back -- for any reporter that wants to report on this -- go back from the time anthony said he was going to sell skybridge til now, look at his public comments. look at a new york magazine article -- neil: you don't need any approval for this job from congress. >> no. neil: so how do you think it would go if he's many there, if he's the director of communications. i assume he's not doing the press conference, but how will things change? >> i think we're going to see a much more aggressive tone from the white house. we know about this -- neil: pretty aggressive now. >> aggressive already. >> i think he's a fierce defender of himself and his family and the things that he's doing, and i think scaramucci's going to punch back on his behalf. >> i think this is a big mistake. i'm telling you, you are doubling down on -- what they need right now, the white house,

my view, to get policy through, they need an adult to step back, take a deep breath and put everything in the bottle every now and then. and maybe allow trump the go off, but maybe someone to say no. neil: yeah, but if you're doubling down on aggressive -- and i think alex is right about that -- >> not good. neil: you've got a pretty aggressive relationship now --? >> he's not getting what he wants. he's not getting congress to do the legislation the way he wants it to go, so putting a strong arm in -- >> any reporter that wants to do a story about anthony scaramucci, go back and look at his public comments, what he said at davos, what he said to new york magazine. he gave some exclusive interview where he was drinking a cocktail and talking to a reporter -- neil: well, you would assume the president knows all of that, and maybe he -- >> he doesn't care. neil: yeah, right, doesn't care. is it your sense, guys, that this occurs on a week that the president has stepped on his own news? i think the interview at "the new york times" and throwing jeff sessions under the bus

maybe for perfectly valid reasons, he can't get over that. but do you think that went too far, that all of a sudden the loyalty factor's going to come in? the media, i think, kind of liked sean spicer. i could be wrong. >> there's always been a kind of yin and yang in this administration between trump wanting to have his close allies, people he trusts in key positions, and a push the a bit more traditional political operatives in those roles. >> right. neil: the jeff sessions thing was a case of i demand loyalty from all my people, here's a guy that's more loyal than you could shake a stick at, and he doesn't go the other way. do you think this is sending bad signals in that sense? >> i think it sends a signal of frustration. >> i'll tell you this, neil, i don't think donald trump gives that much thought to it. neil: well, see, that's dangerous. >> that is -- here's another reason why he picked anthony scare knew chi. anthony got because he complained, two reporters from cnn got fired for writing

erroneous stories about him. when that happened, donald trump -- from what i understand -- was high-fiving inside the white house. neil: so it changed the views of scaramucci. >> absolutely. that earned him tremendous affection from the president, how he -- neil: who -- to express my ignorance, does the communications director decide who conducts the daily briefings? >> you know, that's a good question. i never could figure out -- who was the other guy, mike dub key? how much stroke he had compared to sean spice per. one thing about the trump white house, i'm going to tell you, it's a flat management structure. everybody reports to the guy. there's no -- >> yeah. donald trump will decide who goes on air. >> we mow the president cares a lot about the appearance of the television, who's on it's. he really likes the style in which anthony scaramucci was -- neil: but he also liked gorka, whose role is still unclear, to me at least, in your face, pit bull and all of that.

but, i mean, at what point do you just say, all right, i need these guys to do a job? >> well, the question is, does gorka, what he's doing, does that step on anything mcmasters is doing? does anything that anthony scaramucci's going to do, will that step on what sean spicer's going to do? one thing i can tell you right now is reince priebus, where is he in this? here's the interesting thing. anthony and reince don't get along. they talk about it. at least anthony has talked about out -- neil: well, let's say you're right, no reason to doubt you. if i'm priebus and i'm seeing that despite my protest and this guy still came onboard, my days are numberedded. >> he's got to be out. listen, trump has been running around asking people -- again, he does this periodically, what do you think about reince. and from what i understand, he has asked anthony scaramucci, what do you think about -- neil: what would spicer have against scaramucci having his job? >> i think he thinks he's unqualified for it. that's my opinion, i don't know.

but he thinks guy is adding fuel to a fire that needs to be put out. neil: alec, you were mentioning -- alex, you were mentioning during the campaign as an rnc communications guy, he was very good. he was working -- >> sean's excellent. neil: very, very good. now, very different in the role he was placed in here, i understand that. >> sure. neil: i'm not here to judge whether he was effective or whether it went too far, but where is this going? and what will be the tone we're likely to get out of communications from the white house now? >> well, i think you have to remember that sean was a communications professional long before the rnc days -- neil: you're right. >> -- long before the white house days. this is someone who's really ingratiated himself with the d.c. press. he would show up for birthday parties, happy hours with -- neil: they liked him. >> he's a good guy. neil: and they empathize with him. >> remember his boss at the rnc was reince, right?

remember who his boss is now. he had the most difficult job in the world keeping the -- i mean, he didn't know -- i bet you sean spicer had no idea that trump gave that interview to "the new york times". i bet you -- neil: i would believe that. >> i bet he had no idea. neil: also he was in that position during the -- >> very difficult to get out. neil: -- like many, he didn't see that donald trump would emerge as the nominee, but he was very careful not to criticize any of the 16 running at the time. and trump was saying if we could keep it in the tent and be good with even other, because whoever our nominee is, we want to go on to win. he was surprised at the ultimate outcome, but he's just not a nasty guy. he's just not. >> yeah. in fact, when trump secured the nomination, he moved up to trump tower and based his operations out of there. neil: is that right? >> yes. >> sean spicer would call you up in a sort of normal way and each on background explain what you got wrong and tell you here's

how you fix it. i don't know if anthony -- i don't think anthony scaramucci has that same skill set, i'll be honest with you. now, why did he resign today? this has something to do with priebus, it has to, because priebus and scaramucci are, you know, polar opposites or, you know, not getting along. priebus wasn't consulted on this. bannon really wasn't either -- neil: are they doing a briefing today? >> that's a good question. neil that would be a great idea. by the way, the fallout that none of you got into here is on melissa mccarthy. [laughter] >> who's going to play scaramucci? neil: i don't know. >> me? [laughter] neil: yeah, exactly. we need a loud italian to do that. this week now, you know, with spicer leaving and new team coming in with all the attention on jeff sessions and now next week jared kushner, donald trump jr. expected to, you know, be up

on capitol hill, where is this presidency going? >> well, you know, i think at least in the midterms when we're talking about russia, certainly it's important to the investigate. but i think it's also important to remember that this isn't really at the forefront of most americans' minds. most americans are concerned about the economy. they're concerned about health care. so even as we see these developments next week, i think that, you know, we're also going to be looking to congressional republicans, we're going to be looking -- >> but let's be real clear here. we have the potential right here, right today to have the attorney genre sign or be -- general resign or be asked to leave. it's more than a theoretical possibility. and the chief of staff, reince priebus, either leave or be asked to leave. can you imagine that? that shows you -- >> those are major changes. and only six months in. >> and it's not just theoretically possible, it is really possible. neil: can i throw out another possibility, and i'm just throwing this out there because

of the comments aye heard in "the new york times" -- i've heard, and i'll begin what you, glenn, on what he mentioned about mueller and hoped that he would not get into his business, his financial activity there. within minutes, bloomberg has a story, and you guys elaborated on it where he is, in fact, look at his financial dealings. docould you see him firing mueller? >> it's not outside the realm of possibility. this is a president who acts the way he thinks is in his own best interests and is very concerned about all of this and is very frustrated -- neil: but he would know that that would do much more harm than good, in firing him. >> i think he would do a calculus on that. what is the greater risk to my agenda. and is mueller representing that greater risk. but right now i think what we see is a little bit more of nudging, the way he has used twitter and other things in order to sort of make a point. neil: i don't know if you nudge someone who is, essentially, a prosecutor here --

>> you know, neil, he did that, he did that -- he made those statements outside the purview and the knowledge of his lawyers, i know that for a fact. neil: that's very clear. no lawyer -- >> none of his lawyers can believe that he said that stuff, because you never do that -- neil: i think that is where we potentially could be going here. if you go there, i mean, all bets are off, right? >> yeah. i mean, look, right now mueller's an effective placeholder more all of the russia talk. it's a great way to deflect if you're a congressional republican. if you are the administration, it's in the hands of robert mueller right now. let's move on to health care, let's move on to tax reform -- neil: we do know that mueller is accelerating, whether you agree or disagree with what they're investigating, we do know mueller is looking at details and telling the white house not to get rid of any documents around evidence of that famous june 2016 meeting with donald trump jr. so that does seem, i'm sure, to chafe at the president that this is accelerating and might tempt a reaction like that.

>> well, absolutely. and i think another thing that we see with this president is that he -- when he feels threatened, he's going to try to to discredit the source of the threat, and i think that's partially what's going on now. reminding everybody that the fbi directer and the special prosecutor technically report to to him. >> but the real -- neil: happening on to that. we have more developments on this. one of you go, please. we've got blake burr match at the white house just out of a meeting. what are you hearing, blake? >> reporter: neil, it appears there's a pretty big shake-up within the communications department here at the white house. let me start of walk you through the timeline of events and everything that is going on right now which is still pretty fluid, it appears. yesterday anthony scaramucci, no introduction needed, was here at the white house meeting with the president. and scaramucci returned today earlier this morning in which it is being widely reported at this point that scaramucci was offered the job as communications director. this is a position that has been open for somewhere in the area of a month or two after mike

dubky resigned. after that scaramucci went from the oval office to the office of the white house press secretary. it is no more than a 50, 70-foot walk from the oval to the press secretary office. we got word of that, we went up there standing outside of sean spicer's office, and you could hear audible. [applause] , people clapping. there was a communications meeting going on with the key players inside. as all of that was unfolding came the initial report from "the new york times" that the press secretary, sean spicer, had resigned. others are reporting that as well as all of this started to happen, a member of the communications team came out -- this was in the area known as upper press -- the office of the press secretary, sarah huckabee sanders, a few others as well, by the oval. they said, hey, go down to lower press. we'll deal with you folks there, essentially. so we made the, i don't know, 30-foot walk down to lower press, and right now that is

where a bunch of us and some of our producers as i came out to the camera are huddled, basically awaiting official word from the white house as to what is going on with the communiqueses department. official -- communications department. official word. but as it appears at this moment, anthony scare knew is in as the new communications director. they're reporting, multiple outlets at this hour, that sean spicer has resigned. and this would lead to a massive shake-up of the communications department when the white house officially announces this. i should note that every single day or every evening when the white house puts out its schedule, they've gone into this pattern over the last few weeks of saying, hey, we're going to update you in the morning as to whether or not there will be a briefing or not to. sort of slid now into the 10:00 hour or so. we still have yet to be updated as to who there's going to be a briefing or not on this day. i only bring that up just to highlight exactly how things are moving merchandise the west wig right now -- moving inside the west wing right now as the

communications department appears to be undergoing a major shakeup, neil. neil: do you know what the concern was spicer had with scaramucci coming in? and secondly, did he tender his resignation directly to the president himself? >> on the latter, with we don't know how that process played out. all i can tell you at this point is that the communications folks were inside of spicer's office. i believe sean spicer was there when this kind of huddle -- there's probably a staff of about 12 or so when you talk about official spokespeople and others. and the majority of them were in this meeting. so how the process played out with spicer, this is very fresh. we don't know the mechanics of it. as far as why he decided to make this move, i think the short of that, neil, is very clearly sean spicer, a communications -- somebody who's been doing this professionally for a while. keep in mind, this was his role at the republican national committee for years, very clearly didn't think for one reason or the next, who knows

and i'm not going to speculate, that he couldn't work with anthony scaramucci, somebody whose background is clearly in the world of markets, finance and the economy. neil: do you know, blake, whether he himself wanted that director position? >> sean spicer? neil: yeah. >> reporter: well, he had been holding. there was a dual role -- neil: right. >> sean spicer or was doing both roles. mike dubkey, a couple months anything, ended up doing the -- neil: that i know, and i'm sorry i wasn't clear, blake. do you know whether he coveted that role for himself in a sole position on a permanent basis and that no matter who else would come in, as long as he had that role, it wouldn't have made a difference? >> reporter: that i'm not entirely sure. he was doing both jobs at the moment, neil, so maybe it was that spicer wanted that specific title where he would, essentially, be his own boss. >> this is so fascinating because -- okay. so spicer's a pro. i, he could probably work with

anybody that he feels is, you know, understands what's going on. for him to the resign, i've never heard any bad blood between him and scaramucci. the bad blood was between scare knew and priebus. so he must be resigning for two reasons, that he thinks scaramucci is not qualified for this job. and by the way, you say he's involving markets and all that. scaramucci is an amazing promoter. i mean, that's really where he made his mark, you know, promoting his hedge fund, promoting his conference, promoting himself. that doesn't mean that translates into a communications director. so i think it's either that, that he doesn't think the guy's qualified for the job, he thinks we're doubling down on trump, on promotion. donald trump, it's good and bad. the bad part is he gaves interviews like he just gave to the new york times. he speaks off the cuff a lot. anthony does a lot of that stuff. it's either that or he's resigning because of what this means for priebus, that priebus is out. listen -- neil: we don't know, glenn, i'm

reminded of the pact that many and even -- of the fact that many and even the press sometimes has said fair things about them, your newspaper has been balanced in its criticism as well. also criticizing the way the jeff sessions thing was handled. but i'm wondering what signal this is sending. if charlie's right, that this could herald other developments whether it's reince priebus or others, then what? what are we looking at? >> well, you know, i think you're looking at a new direction, right? and i think that is exactly what the president is wanting -- neil: or doubling down on the direction we have in the press office. >> well, yes. this has been foreshadowed for a long time. we've been reporting for many, many weeks that a shake-up was coming, and it is now here. the question that is before us is how far does it go, which is exactly the point that charlie was making. >> the fact that spicer, who's usually a team player, came out and said not just i resign because i didn't want get the job, you know -- neil: right.

>> there's a way of doing it. the other guy gets the job, and you say, no problem, i'm out. you leave. he didn't quite do that. he went to "the new york times", and we have to see exactly what he said. and he said i'm leaving because this guy's not qualify. he went a step further. neil: do you think that was the real reason though? do you think -- and i know i'm adding this subterfuge, and i don't mean to add drama where there is none -- >> we don't know. neil: -- but if you look at the way the sessions thing was handled, the way other republicans felt the president threw them under the bus let's say in the senate on the failure of the health care effort, that this idea of standing by the president if he doesn't stand by you might have played a factor here? >> well, look, i think you have to remember the background of which sean spicer comes, a very professional, tightly-controlled communications operation -- neil: but why then? but my point is why now? the first sign he took this job must have at least signaled this was not that. >> well, of course -- >> personality. >> right.

>> the personality of scaramucci is now, i think -- neil: so you think the scaramucci -- >> i think he went to the president and said this is the last guy you should put in there. now, i don't know. i haven't done reporting -- neil: i can almost have our guys check this, during the campaign i up had east back to back or on set at the same time scare knew and sean spicer. >> i don't think it's a perm -- i don't think they hate each other. i don't think it's animus. i think it's more like we, this guy should not be in this job. and i would say if you want to know why -- neil: but you can't question the fact that that he doesn't have the smarts for this job. >>ing no, he's brilliant. he's a harvard lawyer. he's smart. but his problem is in he goes way too far in stuff. >> look, not knowing -- >> he opens his mouth at the wrong time. >> not knowing exactly what went down yet. if, though, what we're hearing is right, that spicer went in, spoke to the president and said this is what i think, this is my best advice and the president rejected his advice, that's also a clear signal that he needs to rethink his position.

>> i would just say this, if you want to know why sean spicer might object to scaramucci, it might be because he wanted that job, might be because he didn't want to be part of it, but why did he go so personal? look at scaramucci's comments. study them from the time he almost got that one job, the liaison to the business community, what he said? davos, what he said on twitter, what he said to new york magazine, what his pluck comments which sometimes were pretty out there. look at that -- neil: but here's what i'm saying, and i normally defer to you on all this palace intrigue. i do know enough owing to my age -- i'm an old fart here, you know -- [laughter] that it's not just one. others follow. >> yeah. neil: is it your sense looking at this, and i'm sure you've seen it in all walks of business, that others could follow, that this could be the start of the significant cleaning house? >> well, i think you have to remember that that when the initial white house was being formed, it was sort of an

amalgam of trump, former trump campaign staffers -- neil: right. >> -- and rnc officials and other campaign officials. neil: bingo. you just hit on what i wouldn't want to reveal, this idea that out with the rnc types, in with the trump rabid loyalists, and therein lies the direction. for good or ill. >> i don't see how reince survives. if he survives the day, i will be surprised. because i know trump was asking, i know the animosity between scaramucci -- neil: is you think there's more to come. but, glenn, what about that, again crazy musing on my part. i think when you talk about direction, the direction the president seems more comfortable is this, this direction or getting more like me, the president's saying. there's the scene in the briefing room. we're going to go there in a second. what do you make of that? >> that has been the question for the president all along, how far does he go into the normal political ways and how far does he continue down the path that

he's most comfortable with? neil: okay. blake burman is still there, there is no imminent briefing, but there are a lot of reporters that want to know what the heck is going on. [laughter] blake burman, it caught a lot of people by surprise although this had been out there, how much longer could sean spicer hang onto what some said was the humiliation of the job and the fact that he was out of sorts with the president who wouldn't communicate with him all the time what he wanted to say and then would come back at spicer for saying what he said about what he thought the president wanted to say. it's bedeviled add managerses, but particularly this one. what signal do you think the administration wants to get out? we were talking, and i was the one foisting it, so i shouldn't put on my guests, this notion that there's a battle between rnc types who were not keen on donald trump early on and the rabid loyalists who were and looked at those rnc types as not exactly loyal to the cause of team trump? is that the battle going on here? >> and there's even a story out

today in politico about the diminishing role of steve bannon. what i would say to that, neil, is we are now six months and one day into this administration, and i cannot count off the top of my head how many times we've gotten story after story after story after story about a shake-up. and i would just suggest if you just keep putting it out there, putting it out there, at some point you're going to be right over the course of a four-year administration. [laughter] if that was the case this time that, hey, six month, all right, somebody got it right. but we've been hearing it for so long now, whether it this is, yu know, a new tact -- what i would say, neil, think about the briefings for a second. they were all on camera, then it was sean spicer's going to do fewer of them -- neil: right. >> then they started going off camera, then it was sarah huckabee sanders doing most of them. the president very clearly likes the degenerative measure. [laughter] a that anthony scaramucci gives when he's on television. so now as somebody who's here

every day, i wonder are we going to start to get more of these things on camera potentially with anthony scaramucci as the one standing up there in front of the podium that says the white house, washington d.c. again, the white house has not weighed in with anything officially. we have not heard anything officially today yet about a briefing. but this is one of the many questions here on this friday afternoon as we try to project -- neil: so i know you're not in the briefing room right now, but all these guys standing up on chairs, what are they waiting for? someone to come out and say, yeah, spicer's out of here? >> do you have a live shot up right now? neal neil we do. my mother would be, get off the chairs, i just paid for these chairs. [laughter] what's going on here? >> reporter: yeah. so that's the press briefing room direct, behind the pose to yum is the area known as lower press. there's probably 7-10 folks that work there in all different sorts of capacity with the communications department.

and that's kind of where we were ushered from the upper press area which is sean spicer, sarah huckabee sanders and other folks up there close to the oval. so they said, hey, guys, go down to lower press. we'll have an announcement there. so what you're looking at right now is where i was standing before we came out to the camera, a bunch of u.s. just awaiting the white house to say, hey, here's the official word. this is a look at the sausage being made, how exciting it is here at 1600 pennsylvania. some days this is what we do, just stand around and wait. >> some new details from "the wall street journal," it was actually reince priebus who introduced scaramucci to the full communications staff right after sean spicer resigned and said he would help with the transition. neil: is it your sense that that was the first spicer found out? >> no, spicer had told his team that he was stepping down and that he was planning to help with the transition, and then after of the amaze that we talked about -- applause that we talked about, reince priebus

introduced scaramucci. neil: all right, i want to be clear. spicer found out about this, let reince know he was leaving because of this. did people find out about that first within the white house before reince announced that here's scaramucci? >> i don't have enough details yet. these are all emerging -- neil: i think the order of events is going to be interesting. i'm sorry. >> speaking to reince and scaramucci, i think it's important to remember that anthony scaramucci was a longtime gop donor. neil: bigtime. and wasn't trump his, like, fourth candidate? >> yes. first scott walker's finance chair, then he went to jeb, then he went to rubio -- neil: he was with mitt romney throughout 2012. >> on our air, he and trump were having arguments. trump leaked something about scaramucci looking to jump ship when he was working with walker. scaramucci called him a rich jerk from queens. >> yep. >> so bizarre. here is really the bizarre part, scaramucci and reince. i am telling you, there's been

an immense amount of animosity between those two merchandise and outside of the white house as scaramucci was trying to get in over the last, i would say since january. scaramucci believed that reince was the one guy that that stood in his way to get any type of job in there. even after he sold his company to h and a, the chinese conglomerate. neil: right. >> and even after he believed that he told it and h and a passed all the muster to be sold. so this'll be really interesting. i don't know how reince stays -- why would you say in a job where you can't even -- neil: let me flip it around for you now. sean spicer was always a good soldier, even the day after the inauguration, talking the point that donald trump brought him into the crowd sizes. would an anthony scaramucci do that? >> my opinion is, yes, he'll do whatever the president will say to him. in order to get that job -- neil: tell the president, mr. president, i think that's a bad

idea, you might be off to the races? if it's someone who's going to continue to do crazy stuff like this -- >> no, he won't do that. i don't think he has the cajones to tell donald trump to stop. maybe one guy, someone like mark kasowitz, who's his longtime lawyer -- neil: it's an inknockingous read from an ap article, but spicer spent many years in the republican national committee. he is close to white house chief of staff reince priebus, former rnc chair. i say that only to say that's a read of the background of sean spicer. they go through his background. what they are saying -- >> they're friends. neil: essentially, they're close friends. they both went to the white house together. reince was sort of like his internal corporate man who made everything happen for him. and now they are going separate ways. >> you know -- neil: begs the question, will reince? >> well here's the thing, neil, i think donald trump needs someone to tell him to stop doing stuff. maybe he won't listen to you -- neil: i don't know if it's

scaramucci. >> it's definitely not him. >> look, i think his most favorite advisers are his children and jared kushner in the mix. and there's another circle outside of that. and you go even further and get to the traditional political establishment. >> and no one tells him what to do. neil: yeah. so that's the deal here, and i do appreciate you indulging us and my panelists, they have tight schedules of their own to. but again, we locked hem into their seats. [laughter] apparently, they don't have the flexibility to stand on their seats like these guys do can, but they're waiting for some word this was all about changing communications, this was not communicated clearly and concisely. everyone wants to know whether there's a briefing today, who's going to do it and who's really in charge here and whether this is the first of other firings, dismissals, resignations. too early to say, but it is friday in washington. it's hot, and is right now people are botheredded. we'll have more after this. ♪ ♪ ve a ford f-150. michael: i've always been a ford guy. potsch: then i have a real treat for you today. michael: awesome. potsch: i'm going to show you a next generation pickup. michael: let's do this. potsch: this new truck now has a cornerstep built

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neil: already, in case you just

joined us here, 38 minutes after the hour we got word a little bit about half an hour ago that sean spicer's resigned as white house press secretary. he was particularly objecting, we are told the impetus was anthony scaramucci, former wall street kingpin was coming as the new white house communications director. some interpreted that as maybe taking over briefings themselves. way too soon to talk about that, but that was enough for sean spicer. he let reince priebus know, i am outta here. so he is that there -- he is outta there. there are a number of meetings going on at the white house, whether this is going to jostle the markets, it appears not. there was very little movement in the markets beforehand, very little movement afterward, so no real effect at all at this point. but again, whether this could develop into something more where others leave the administration, reince priebus himself mentioned, of course, chief of staff. there's also been talk that the president is not looking as favorably on steve bannon, of

course, his chief adviser on some of of the more political matters like a vat gist position. so it's -- strategist position. it's not as if the president is in love with one style or another. to democratic strategist, conservative comment cater gina loudon. dean, your thoughts on this and whether this is more to come. >> well, listen, people have been speculating sean spicer would be out of the white house since march. and what we do know is this type of turmoil is par for the course in this administration. it's par for the course in his campaign, and from what people say, it's par for the course in how donald trump runs his businesses. but the bigger question is, who cares? this is all inside baseball. the press loves it, d.c. insiders love it. but the fact of the matter is the american voter just, you know, doesn't care. and so the people who vote, the people who want to see donald trump do something in washington, what they have their

eyes and ears on is congress and getting health care reform and tax reform passed. neil: all right. normally when an administration sees this type of thing, gina, they're worried that the american people are not getting that message, so maybe we've got to improve the way the message is sent or who sends it, right? >> certainly. i think scaramucci is certainly a trump-style fighter, neil. and so i think that that probably has, plays some role. i think that, look, as we're moving forward, we're trying to accomplish health care, we're trying to accomplish tax reform, these are things that need to be carefully communicated to the american people. and somebody like scaramucci is somebody who has proven that he can articulate things in a way that certainly trump's biggest fans, trump's base understands well. and i think it will play well moving forward. and these turnovers are not scandals. this happens. i mean, press secretaries usually don't last real long. neil: all right, what's

interesting -- i don't want to read too much into white house intrigue, but it's all i have to go on. there are a number of reports, one from "the washington post," another from nbc news, and i'll bounce this off you, that both reince priebus and steve bannoned had resisted the scaramucci appointment, that they weren't keen on it. i don't know what their reasons were or are, it's a moot point now news the president has said his decision is final and this is what's going to happen. what do you read into that? priebus represents what i call the conventional rnc position before taking this job, and i think it's safe to say bannon is now the rabble-rousing, you know, early trump advocate. so they were both opposed to this, and yet the president overrule them. >> yeah. it's an interesting dynamic. reince is definitely also already has personal issues and doesn't get along very well with scaramucci. and then you probably have bannon being a little hesitant, because if i was him, i don't want someone to threaten my

confidentiality and relationship with trump, and somebody like scaramucci -- who was veried good in front of the media in being a trump advocate, admittedly -- could possibly do that. and clearly, him overruling both of them -- neil: but i can't see anthony in the role of a press spokesman giving briefings every day. now, maybe i'm missing something here -- >> yeah. i mean, i think every white house is different. neil: right. >> sometimes the press secretary, coms, depending on the mood, depending on the message. so i could see him being out there sometimes if they think somebody more aggressive needs to be out there as opposed to maybe sarah who i wouldn't say she isn't aggressive, but has a different style than he does. neil: doesn't this heighten the possibility though, dean, regardless of what you think's going on here is that the press, with whom you've always had an act comoan now relationship -- i'm not talking you, i'm talking this administration -- is going to get even more so?

and then maybe the scene that's developing in the white house briefing room where a lot of reporters are just waiting to be told what the heck's going on, and will there be something happening today? you know the drill. will this actually make things actually in a communications sense even more combative for the administration? >> well, i think that's to be seen. it's certainly been a combative relationship since day one of this this administration -- neil: very true. >> and while you have heard reporters now say that they had a great relationship with sean spicer, that certainly wouldn't be the case that came across to anyone who watched cable news or saturday night live on a regular basis. [laughter] of so i think, again, it's to be determined. i certainly think the bar was set low not by sean spicer's doing, but simply by combative press corps that kind of had it out or had a target on the back of this administration since day one. neil: you know, gina, i would

agree that this administration has been particularly on the short end of the stick in terms of coverage, but that it often times -- not all the time -- feeds the beast with distractions and getting off message. i think the president's interview with "the new york times" on the whole jeff sessions thing illustrated that in a week the president wanted to focus on health care and a rework and get it right. so a press director coming in is going to have to tell the president often times things he might not want to hear, like shut up, right? [laughter] so i'm -- that's not a left or right view here. i'm just saying that part of the problem seemed to be that, you know, there was no one with maybe the cajones to tell president, hey, sir, this is wacky. you have to do this. and your tweeting is fine, just stay on message in the tweeting, don't go off message, don't go into a tangent cabot jeff sessions and -- tangent about

jeff sessions. you know what i mean? can that person do that, and if he can't, does it really matter who is in that office? >> i think in the media bubble, neil, we tend to the sort of see things differently than maybe the american people are perceiving them sometimes. this has been a tremendously successful presidency. in the first six months, you look at the changes in the stock market and illegal immigration, the jobs count, i mean, we could go on all day with a list of massive accomplishments of this presidency in a short -- neil: no, no. gina, you just illustrated my point. you're right. those are successful points, if you want to argue that, then the president stepping on those headlines by talking about jeff sessions or talking about -- he hurts his own message. you need a press person -- >> but i think the american people -- neil: stay on the message because the media's going to pounce on all the negative stuff, don't you add to it. >> but i think the american people believed in trump and continue to believe in president trump because of his authenticity, because they know

he's shooting straight, because they know he's going to say things that may not be politically correct, may not be packaged by some fancy consultant, but they are what the pulse of the american people -- neil: i don't think you're getting what i'm saying. i understand the american people like ther reverence. my only thing is that the president has got to get someone to tell him when he can go too far and when he can't or advise him about discretion or when it's call for or when not. and i don't know whether a change in the briefing room is going to bring that out. maybe it might. but what do you think is really going on here? >> i mean, i agree with you, neil. [laughter] in that, you know, if i was a lawyer or i was a press guy for trump right now, i'd be like, dude, what you doing? >> [laughter] because it's sort of like -- [laughter] neil: now, that would be an interesting briefing right there. >> that would totally be an interesting briefing. we were supposed to originally come and talk about some of the pre-pardon discussions that he had with his lawyer and whether

it's possible for him legally. but now we're talking about the press secretary being, like, peace, i'm out. and in both of these instances for both of these guys, they're like why do you keep saying stuff that i would not advise you to say? it's making my life harder, you know? so it's like this is supposed to be made in america week, and in this entire week we've been talking about now don jr., now his discussions with lawyers, possibly, you know, undermining mueller or firing him or whatever he might -- is thinking of doing. neil: right. >> and now we're talking about spicer. it's like, oh, my god, you're self-sabotaging. neil: thank you, guys, very much. and i do apologize for stepping on our original intent here, a concern about the testimony next week of donald trump jr., the administration apparently the president specifically inquiring about what -- how far he can go with his pardons. he was just asked a lot of questions, but some interpret that to mean that he was considering the possibility of

seeing how much power he has to pardon maybe family members. we're told, maybe even himself. there's a lot we don't know. this much we do, sean spicer is gone. we'll have more after this. ♪ ♪ we're on to you, diabetes. time's up, insufficient prenatal care. and administrative paperwork... your days of drowning people are numbered. same goes for you, budget overruns. and rising costs, wipe that smile off your face. we're coming for you, too. for those who won't rest until the world is healthier, neither will we. optum. how well gets done.

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neil: all right. you're looking at the white house briefing room where

they're waiting for a briefing on a brief and shocking development here, that sean spicer -- probably the most recognized press secretary in u.s. history, of course, parodied on snl -- has left. he is out of there. we're told it had the back of riebs priebus and that -- reince priebus and the arrival of anthony scaramucci had the backing of jared kushner, ivanka trump and gary cohn, the national economic council head. it was that shire -- hiring that sean spicer said, that's it, that's the last straw. he is out of there. we are getting word that sarah huckabee sanders is going to brief the press on all of this. her new boss, of course, will be anthony scaramucci. whether he does any briefings in the future is anyone's guess, but he certainly brings wall street right now to that job, the likes of which we have not seen in this capacity in quite a while. speaking of wall street, i

should point out that if it was supposed to be flummoxed by all these developments that are captivating the press, not so. essentially where it was when we got word of this about 55 minutes ago. to market watcher jonas max ferris on why that is. what do you make of this, jonas? >> i definitely don't think this is even marginally a stock market event at all. it's more of just an insight of how things work in the administration and not in a way that would have an implication of how tax cuts are going to get through or not go through with congressmen. i'm not in politics, so to me, it's very weird that this is in the middle of the snl season and the next one starting. i know that's speculative, but i think trump is keen and smart about how the public perceives thingses, and when a woman part started making fun of this guy in drag, i think it was embarrassing to trump -- neil: really? you must know that alec baldwin is still going to -- >> well, he's not stepping down. he couldn't do it during the

season, it would look like he did it during -- neil: that's an interesting read. >> it had to be now. this looks like a good cover story, but i'm being totally speculative. again, no stock market impact, nor should there be. neil: the only time it gets to be an issue is when there are other firings, resignations, terminations or an administration in disarray. i quite agree with our other guest, but it does get a tad off message. maybe scaramucci's just the guy to do that. any sense where he could? >> well, i think scare knew is more the kind of person trump would want. at the end of day, he's not a career politician. spicer is a pr person, he worked in politics. he's not -- he's a little swampy for trump, and he needs to show he's moving more of a business direction. scaramucci's more of a trump kind of person at the end of the day. and like trump, your guests

brought up a few segments ago, very good at image and himself and his business as if he was a master in pr. he's got a real business interest, he's not in politics, obviously. and i think trump, who's also really good at that you have to say as a career, it's a better combo. neil: jonas, thank you very much. there is a politico article on this in which a top white house unnamed official says this was a murdering of reince priebus and steve bannon. i'm adding their first names here. they said anthony, referring to scaramucci, would get this job over their dead bodies. dead bodies not necessary. he did. ♪ >> we'll have more after this. ♪ ♪

:

. neil: all right, word to the wise, if you're ever going to put up a warning to people that over your dead body, something has got to happen or not happen and then you are overruled. you got to either leave or sneak away here. we're told that steve bannon, reince priebus said of the prospect of anthony scaramucci, the former wall street titan join in the capacity as the communications director would happen over their dead bodies. that is happening, they're still in good health and alive and working in the white house, if you put a threat like that out there, it doesn't necessarily mean you get what you want. anthony scaramucci coming in, in that capacity as communication director at the white house, and probably the most iconic if not the most

familiar press secretary we've seen to americans in history is out. so i don't know what this could mean to melissa mccarthy, but there goes that chance. i don't know who will ultimately take on these regular briefings. we're told that sarah huckabee sanders will be giving one in about an hour from now. but we'll watch it closely. in the meantime, blake burman at the white house on the fast moving developments. blake? >> reporter: and neil, the update from the white house at this moment is there is going to be an on-camera briefing here at the white house, 2:00. sarah huckabee sanders, in which they will sort of spell everything out or what they want to spell out as to how everything plays. we will see if anthony scaramucci is involved with that briefing. as you know, recently, the white house has been bringing several cabinet members. top principals to the briefings to spell out whatever the topic du jour is and turn it over to sarah sanders. to take it from there, we don't know if scaramucci will be

brought in or sarah sanders doing the briefing, either way, the white house will spell out in about an hour how all of this played out and how communications shop will work going forward? this has all developed within the last few hours, and what have you at the white house right now, neil, is a communications department whose job is solely to communicate with the media and the american public, the administration's message, trying to best figure out how to communicate what their communications staff will look like going forward? they will attempt to do that one hour from now with sarah sanders with the briefing, as the communications shop has been entirely shaken up on this day. six months and one day into the trump administration, neil. neil: blake, you did say, it is an on-camera briefing? >> on-camera briefing with sarah huckabee sanders, that's not to say that they won't potentially bring anthony scaramucci in because sometimes

they'll just say as it's been recently off camera, sarah huckabee sanders and she'll bring in somebody else. all we know that the point is sarah huckabee sanders will be there on camera and remains to be seen potentially, if we get our first glimpse of anthony scaramucci at white house. neil: are we to read anything in just that? that it's going to be an on-camera briefing, change in posture, whether this is the first directive from anthony scaramucci or, what do you think? >> this is -- this will be the first on-camera briefing since june 29th. that's 22 days. neil: wow. how the heck did you know that? you've been working a little too hard. >> reporter: one of the random stats we got from somewhere. but, look, i think they gotta do this, right? waiting on the statement. they haven't put a statement out there. so many different narratives as to how this all played out. if indeed it is anthony scaramucci, it's the first test.

if, a big if we hear from him. it's a testimony how they go about the communications shop going forward. neil: you're the best, buddy. thank you very much. also knows a lot of arcane little facts but that's what makes him so good. on the phone with us now, multiple best-selling author, i call him the father of the modern day conservative movement in a very articulate and passioned sense, the former senior adviser to president ronald reagan, president nixon, pat buchanan. good to have you. what do you make of this? >> let me speak as former communications director to ronald reagan. this is very dramatic. i agree with you, sean spicer is going to go down in history quite famously. he served as well as he could, and some ways he's become quite, quite famous. the key thing i'm looking at, neil, is this, does the director of communications, is he going to be in charge of the message from the white house, and is the press secretary

going to be under him, and will he be the go between the press secretary and the president of the united states? when i was brought in by don regan at the bottom of the second term, regan wanted me to take the press secretary's office. that would be a mistake, needs to be directly with the president and we'll handle the other communications shop. this is going to be interesting to see. secondly, while reagan often would go offscript and say what he thought, the soviets have a right to steal, cheat and lie, in press conferences, donald trump does it all the time. he's his own communications director. neil: but you know, pat, i was saying earlier with the guest. i don't know what relationship you had in that capacity with richard nixon, you were obviously quite young, or later on with ronald reagan. i always feel the press secretary, beholdent to president, the president tells them what to say, they've got

to say something back, sir, i don't think that would be a good idea. i don't know if that's going to be scaramucci doing that, and would tell the president, you know, in this case, sir, i don't think so? >> you know, that's exactly why first the press secretary needs the direct line to the president. secondly, we used to go into the president after the senior staff meeting and say here's the communications program we got today sir, you'll be speaking in the eob on this issue, this issue, we want to get this message across, and often reagan would go to the eob and say after i'm done giving the speech, i'm going to take q&a, which meant he would say what he wanted to say. he was the president and could. but clearly you would write, tell the president, i don't think that's a good idea, mr. president. neil: i guess you are in front of the eisenhower office building. >> yeah, the eob.

neil: in light of the changes, steve bannon, coming from politico, steve bannon and reince priebus were not a fan of the scaramucci appointment and it would happen over their dead bodies. it happened. >> they're on record saying that, they're going to have to accept it. but, look, you're also going to have to -- where does kellyanne conway stand? she's a communicator for this administration. you got sebastian gorka out speaking for this administration. neil: she was on earlier today, nothing in her demeanor, style or questions seemed to indicate that she was telegraphing this coming. unless she had a -- >> the question is who controls the message coming out of the white house? neil: donald trump, donald trump. >> the key guy deciding that? neil: i think it's the president. or am i wrong? >> if it's the president, who decides who can go out on the television and what they can

say and not say. neil: how did it work with reagan and you? >> i was in control of the communications shop. neil: who would go out and talk? >> no. no. no, you scheduled and program people. let me tell you, if you have a contra aid vote on the hill, we would schedule cabinet speeches, write speeches for them. you do the same thing for the nixon speeches, write the speeches, get them on the, a put people on the air, the nsc people, and schedule the president for two nights before the vote in the congress, and he'd deliver the big speech and the legislative guy would say mr. president, you got to call these six or seven guys. it was all programmed. it was a well-oiled, well-run machine. so was nixon's white house, extraordinarily so. neil: we live in different media times, as you know, pat. have you all the news networks and business networks and all want their administration guests and their takes, would

you, just if you had to offer advice to scaramucci coming in, tell him limit the number of people you fan out, get them all on the same page, because quite often, i discovered a cursory read of watching them, they're all over the map. >> that's what you need to do. what i would do, first you have to get to the president and try to get control of his message to the degree you can. secondly, ought to have a meeting of all the communicators who are going to go out and say, look, here's the message we're pushing, here is the issue, i'm sure they've tried to do this, it comes naturally, neil, but my guess is these things break down because of the tweets and because of -- you call in the "new york times," and talk to them for 45 minutes. neil: yeah, and no one apparently knew about that. [ laughter ] >> that's a problem there. >> it would be a tough job for the communications director. neil: yeah. we'll see. but again, it is what it is. >> i think scaramucci has to talk directly to the president to get some -- is he in control

of the white house message? does that mean, he's going decide obviously in concert with the others, the chief of staff and others, and send out the various people to convey the message as each of them does differently, but everybody is on the same page, as you say. neil: all right, buddy, thank you very much. appreciate you taking the time, pat buchanan. neil: to connell mcshane, what factors might be behind spicer quitting? other things missing, maybe the fact the way the president handled the "new york times" interview and throwing jeff sessions under the bus, hurt in a wound that still festers months after the fact, that maybe spicer might have felt loyalty works both ways. obviously, it's not that way in this white house, what? >> i think part of this is assessing it from spicer and a lot of other people in washington who handle

communications come from conventional communications backgrounds. and normally, if you're a communications expert, your job is to manage the message coming out of the white houser to respond defensively. the problem for spicer is that how do you speak for the man who always has the microphone? and president trump constantly set the communications agenda just by freelancing, and i think as you saw spicer go, he was the face of the administration, he was mocked regularly. he had difficulty communicating in a way that the president wanted. even from the very first press conference, we heard regular reports of the president criticizing spicer for how he was presenting himself in public, and ultimately after diminishing role for sean spicer as a public face and few press briefings. this is a communications environment not well suited for sean spicer who is used to much more traditional communications experience. neil: no one would be up to the job. >> that's right, the question is will donald trump allow

someone strong enough to go t toe-to-toe and say he is totally wrong. he was totally wrong about saying jeff sessions recused himself. he had to recuse himself because it was conflict of interest. that immediately triggers robert mueller, special counsel. neil: he humiliated the guy. >> and demoralated the justice department guys and gals. he can't fire, donald trump cannot fire robert mueller. he can maybe go after mr. rosenstein who oversees, he's the acting in this regard, rod rosenstein. if donald trump went after rosenstein for not firing mueller. that's a bombshell, an explosion. neil: can you imagine if we did, that we'd have a very different market reaction. we're going to have the debate all day long what type of white house this is. it's not normal. none of this is normal. i was struck by pat buchanan's description to you about what normal was, and what white

house being run by a communications director be it him or somebody else normally looks like. that's not what we're dealing with here, and to vince's point, sean spicer wasn't comfortable with the job, it was obvious, literally from day one, when he was asked to go out and talk about a crowd size, which seemed like a small point. if you listen to interviews and we dealt with them in the transition. sean, what's the most important part of being press secretary? the trust of the press corps. what is the first thing he was asked to do? go out and say something that wasn't true. he was never comfortable in the job. neil: you're not saying barack obama had bigger crowds at his inauguration. >> i know, but it's crazy. >> they need a james baker or marlin fitzwater who says you are completely wrong would. >> he listen to them? neil: part of what got him the job is not being like the james baker, i definitely see what you mean. vince, will anyone have that or is this a battle between rnc

types and sort of like the trump dna types that scaramucci might more reflect? what do you think? >> i think there is some of. that as steve bannon opposes scaramucci on the basis that he comes from wall street. this is not a populist thing, and the rnc side of things, reince priebus opposed to him. scaramucci is not being brought into change the communications strategy, it's the consolidated into just what trump does and offer it to us. neil: this is not a bad job for settlement. he was being bounced around for a lot of positions. basically, what other jobs to look for, a dozen come and gone. >> you are right. neil: ultimately got this one, which is not a shabby position. >> not a shabby position, again and again, it's rescuing donald trump from himself. they need adult supervision in the room and say don't talk to the "new york times" without telling the staff so we can help you not make mistakes. so many problems with the "new

york times" interview. neil: but he could have avoided it. but i understand the balance of president i'm here because i didn't listen to experts including some in my employ. if you want to succeed, you have to kind of know how to proceed here. i'm not saying totally conventional but a way to get your fiery spirit on point. >> it's not the way he looks at the world. i don't think he thinks. that the best way do it is have him being the communications director, have him set the agenda. we could sit here all day and say that's not the way it's supposed to be done. there's no reason to believe he's going to exchange in that way. neil: you think more firings are coming? >> if it's just spicer, fine, it's not important, what about reince priebus and steve bannon, that would signal a huge change for the way things are put together.

big story, yes, if it's leading to mow, much bigger story. neil: what would you know with working with an harassing old guy. >> don't get me in trouble. neil: enough said. we'll have more after this.

. neil: all right, the dow is off its worst levels, i stress worst levels, not bad levels. down about 38 points here. if they're expecting panic in the markets over sean spicer leaving, think again. it is a communications post within the administration, not a policy enacting poechlt someone else was e-mailing but the position of press secretary is one in administration's post world war ii that has seen the most turnover. press secretaries go through more positions than any other position. certainly in recent times with the exception of barack obama, that sounds about accurate. he had, what, three press secretaries? i think. and that was over eight years, but the point of the matter is over the scheme of things, it is the most aggressively turned over position, maybe because it

takes a lot out of you. to minnesota republican congressman jason lewis in all of this. congressman, what do you make, here's anthony scaramucci coming in, former wall street titan, contributor on this network, steve bannon's concern was he was too tied to the community. now an administration filled with financial community types, including at least three goldman sachs alum. but what do you make of all that? >> well, i think presidential missteps early on are about as common as the day is long. from the bay of pigs to the failed hillary care during the clinton administration. neil: you are absolutely right about that. >> it's going to happen early on. a little more intense with this administration? probably. but, look, if we can get some leadership, especially on economic issues coming out of the white house, and i mean rhetorically, i think it's a good thing and see what happens with the communications director. neil: congressman, wouldn't that mean that scaramucci would

have to be that face in front of the media, in front of the reporters for these briefings? >> i don't know what the administration is going to do on that, but the day james comey testified that was all over the news. also the day we repealed and replaced dodd-frank in the house. that didn't get covered. we're doing things, get the spotlight on the things we're doing. look, i didn't come to washington to talk about the drama at 1600 pennsylvania avenue. i came here because we have a debt crisis, a tax reform crisis, we need to do tax reform and have all sorts of problems going on. health care crisis, medicaid, entitle crisis. that's what we need to talk about and addressing. anything we can do to put the ball on policy instead of politics, i'm in favor of. neil: congressman, you mentioned about the other dreamts, sometimes they come, no offense to the president meant here, at behest of the president. comey firing, the timing of it,

and "new york times," and jeff sessions and the whole thing refestered at a time i'm sure you didn't want to see it refester? >> the reason is, it takes our focus off the policy changes we're trying to make. we know health care isn't working, and the people that preserved obamacare last week are sending us to a single payer, government run system. there's a new report in the uk that a million patients a week can't get to see their gp now. waiting lines at a record, and that is the direction we're going in health care, thanks to the failure of the senate quite frankly and that's what we ought to be talking about, neil. not the latest drama. neil: if you advised the president and talking to the "new york times" about sessions and talking about things he has to later take back or press people are trying to take back, i don't know what role scaramucci will play in trying to dial that sort of thing back or get the administration back

on message, what would you say? >> i would say stay focused on policy. president won on policy, and by the way for all the troubles the republicans supposedly have had in the mainstream press, the democrats are totally adrift at sea. which is why the republican parties won all of the special election, i believe it's 5-0. neil: yeah. >> if we focus on policy, we've got the right agenda. we passed a budget, i'm on the budget committee. out of that committee last week that addresses tax reform, addresses entitlements, mandatory spending cuts of $203 billion. if you focus on that, we win, don't get sidetracked by the drama. neil: well put, congressman, thank you very much. we are going see a television briefing, a press briefing that would be recorded live and seen live, sarah huckabee sanders doing the honors here as blake burman pointed out. the statistician, this is the

first live white house briefing on camera since june 29, definitely june 29. that's coming up. to bring you up to date on this, a lot of reporters want to know first of all, sarah huckabee sanders and what the message will be coming from anthony scaramucci whether he will be introduced there. what role he will play. what he will be doing about the briefings. and this is one of the most turnedover positions in the administration. i have not been able to validate that. we have gone through the three press secretaries barack obama had over eight years. george bush, had four, and bill clinton had five. just over the course since 1997, about 20 years, we have had 13 press secretaries. so if you think about it, we have been averaging one for less than two years. that's not a long shelf life. little more after this.

. neil: all right, markets still down pretty much as they were a little over an hour and a half ago when we first got word sean spicer was leaving the administration. john, i expect we would be different if there were a mueller firing, a rosenstein firing. this is the white house communications guy after all. but it does raise the issue whether others follow. we're told that reince priebus and steve bannon were against scaramucci coming in, said it wouldn't happen over their dead bodies. it did. so there might be othered hads to roll, what's your sense? >> i think it's a market nonevent. presidential scandals can be as bad for the country, not the markets. look at the two impeachments of andrew jackson and bill clinton. neil: there was a lot of other

stuff going on, there energy crisis and everything else that might not solely have fed to these but wasn't a great time. >> i think the oil embargo had more to do than nixon. i don't think it's going to have a negative effect from the market unless it takes away from the trump administration if they go after corporate taxes and repatriation of money. that could affect the market. neil: jonathan, who better to have a guy like scaramucci who knows the language and approach and how to sell that probably better than most, certainly better than any in that kind of position, so what do you think of it? >> i was surprised that scaramucci took the job, neil. >> i was too, yeah. >> yeah. i mean he's been critical of the president prior to this announcement in the distant past, and i don't know, i think it's a very thankless job from the political perspective. the president has a tendency to throw people under the bus.

the real issue for the markets is policy, so much money was invested, predicated on lower regulation, lower tax cuts, reforming health care, so if those can get done, i think you'll see people increasingly nervous despite the record run we've had. >> i think far more effective to the markets right now, john layfield is those tax cuts and getting delayed or denied. so i don't know if it makes a difference what happens in the briefing room, but if it looks like we've run out of room in time for those, then, you know, katy bar the door, what do you think? >> i think you're right, especially the corporate tax reform, i don't think there is the political capital to get individual tax reform, corporate tax reform is bipartisan. individual income tax accounts for 47% of total government revenue, to offset that of significant cuts would be too much and i don't think it's political palatable. if you have the corporate income tax, to me, that is the

biggest thing that's out there along with the repatriation of money. tech stocks up 30% since the inauguration and a lot of that is on the repatriation of money. >> can i just? neil: go ahead, jonathan. >> you talk about the reagan era with the massive tax cuts spurring tremendous growth from the 80s. when john talks about not being politically palatable, as an investor, i think if not now, when? the republicans run the table. if they're not advocating for the dramatic tax cuts in getting them through now, i fear it could be generations before it gets through. neil: i worry when they will dial it down, and some are saying not for the upper income. maybe take the total sides and whittle it down even with the corporate one, maybe not 15%, maybe not 20%, maybe 25%, as if going lower than what we have is palatable than not lowering them at all. i worry about that, i worry about watering down something

before they're out the gate. >> this would be a great opportunity for scaramucci to focus the president on policy, not on the day-to-day antics and tweets and all the rest. i think -- neil: do you, jonathan, agree, that the president can't stay focused on this stuff? >> a lot bugs me, neil. a lot bugs me. great opportunity here with this administration, so this is a real opportunity. anthony scaramucci could put it back on track, if the president listens. neil: that's a big question, john layfield, i hear it from people who are so anti-trump and globalist. globalist, i thought they were talking about my waist size. i'm not, i'm just pro-growth, and part of the thing i think happens when we get into the other little soap operas, they had nothing to do with an economic agenda they think could be very promising and certainly lift growth in this country, and anything that gets in the way of, that john, is going to be damaging. and that's the president gets in the way of that.

>> i think that's exactly the case and that's what's going on right now. look, you start off with the travel ban, whether good or bad, that was a complete waste of political capital, you could not get to the economy. and the biggest repeal and replace should be the gop. these guys have got the house, the senate and the presidency, and they just can't seem to get anything done. it's unfathomable. neil: i will say this, john layfield. if they can't get it done, americans would lose jobs and americans have long memories, it could be a generational thing that they never get it back. it could be very, very serious for them. jonathan hoenig, what do you want to hear? we are waiting for the sarah huckabee sanders briefing. maybe scaramucci makes a statement or two. what do you want to see now? if this is an opportunity for the administration to renew focus, to get a better message, i don't know. but what do you want to hear?

>> beyond i resign, neil? beside that? i think it's going to take a real effort to get this administration back on check. especially considering a lot of what is the media and public are focusing now are investigations in the administration. it's built on trust. whether it's ms. sanders or mr. scaramucci, they have a lot of work, i think, to put the policy agenda, which we all are rooting for back on track for the administration. neil: john layfield? >> three things, i think they're all bipartisan. lower corporate tax, which i think both sides agree with. repatriation of money, which will help business, and third, fix obamacare, forget the repeal, 100% partisan, democrats and republicans want to fix it. let president obama keep his legacy, swallow a little pride and fix health care instead of saying we're going to let you keep, it watch america go down the tubes. terrible thing for people to say. neil: all right, guys, thank you, both very, very much.

down about 46 points here. there's not been a big market reaction to this. probably a more significant one, significant player not to trivialize sean spicer, a media figure to put it mildly, if this had been rumored out there that the president had become annoyed and frustrated with the investigation of robert mueller, if he was trying to fire him or other key players in the administration, there would be a bigger response. having said, that though, it is a big deal when a familiar figure in america's living rooms and that was the case since we saw the president elected in november, sean spicer was the face, for the most part of this administration, and for the last six months of this administration, and now sean is gone. no doubt being pursued by publishers, being pursued by networks who would love his insights and takes on his boss. we'll have more after this.

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. neil: you know, washington is a strange place. not the least of which -- not only careers that are rising and then fall, but careers that look like they were over and can be reinvented. think of anthony scaramucci and all he went through to get anyone of what we're told of a half a dozen possible white house jobs that seem to get smaller and smaller and less significant and less significant and lo and behold after all of this ends up getting a pretty prime one, the communications director position where you are essentially the chief communications person for a president who oftentimes tries to do that himself. needless to say, it's an uphill kind of a struggle to win out over there and advise the president and advise how he gets the message out and takes tough news. we're not sure this president is always receptive to that. but we will be hearing very, very soon from the press secretary.

right now, to talk about sean spicer leaving, and maybe sarah huckabee sanders can give us a sense of whether, a, anthony scaramucci will be there, in the resurrection of his career and whether this could telegraph a different approach to all things team trump, six months into power. to the washington examiner white house correspondent sarah westwood and gabby marangeiello. >> i'm less than interested hearing about the rumors how the entire series of events unfolded and what changes are going to happen under scaramucci as communications director is he going on tv as he has been to be a defender of the president and his agenda? is he going to be staffing up and hiring new people to bring into this white house? you know when sean spicer was named press secretary, he brought with him a number of individuals who worked at the republican national committee.

are those folks staying on? and if not, who are going to replace them? i think that there are significant changes that are likely to occur under scaramucci's leadership in that top communications post and it will be interesting to see what those are and to hear from sarah huckabee sanders on those details. neil: you know, there is the possibility that nothing changes, that it's a different person, that this president won't change, he will still call the shots, he will still control that messaging. of course he will argue as he has in the past that he got himself elected. i'm famously saying that with steve bannon, he came forward and won all these guys over. is he right for a different message or different messenger? >> look, i think that scaramucci, again, is somebody cut from the same cloth as the president, and the appointment of him in this communications director role signals that the president is seeking some sense of change inside his communications department, and within the west wing.

this guy has been compative in introduce before. he has been a defender of the president to, you know, on every single issue and every single scandal that we've seen. neil: he's just hit on the key point here, and sarah, want to take that up with you, if you're expecting a nicer, kinder, gentler approach from the white house, it won't be, what do you make of that, sarah? right, we know the president's dissatisfaction with the communications route didn't come from the fact it was being defensive enough, it was too often on defense, they weren't getting out ahead of stories. weren't getting the press they thought he deserved and felt the messaging strategy was most successful when he was doing it himself. word is this week he conducted an interview with the "new york times." out of that interview he criticized attorney general jeff sessions, other controversial things he said, inside the white house, the word was he thought it was a

roaring success. neil: didn't anyone tell him it wasn't, sarah? >> that is the problem, no one in the press has been able to stand up to the president and let him know when the line that the president wants to push is not necessarily the one that's going to get them the most flattering media coverage. neil: by the way, i don't want interrupt you, we're hearing via sean spicer tweet that it's been an honor and privilege to serve potus, real donald trump and this amazing country. i will continue my service through august. don't know whether that will be on-camera service or how it will change what you do when you get your information, sarah. what do you make of that? >> interesting, because it seems like the ouster of sean spicer was not necessarily amicable, that he resigned in protest over scaramucci joining the west wing, so it's interesting he will continue to serve with someone he so openly dislikes. neil: also should be, gabby, may be a sign that scaramucci's start date is delayed. i can't see the two of them

together. do you know, gabby, where the antipathy began or why? so many in the administration, we feel this extended way beyond sean spicer, steve bannon and to reince priebus, they were against scaramucci coming in, at least in this capacity. the president overruled them all. >> well, a lot of these individuals inside the president's circle feel as though scaramucci is not well qualified for this position. that despite his appearances on the cable news networks over the past few months defending the president, that he has no business managing a communications operation and running something that is so fast paced inside this white house. one of the complaints we've heard repeatedly from people inside the white house is that as sarah was saying, oftentimes a lot of disconnect between what the president is saying and his press shop and communications team, and it's difficult to see with scaramucci somebody who has been loyal to the president, who the president seems to be

particularly fond of, whether he's going to be able to ameliorate that situation and make sure that there are -- there is plenty of coordination happening between the press shop and the president's most inner circle. but i do think that sean spicer, though he may have been protesting this appointment, you know, through other reporting, we've learned he is there and willing to help aid this transition and make sure that it goes smoothly as possible and he will continue to defend this president and help advance this administration's agenda in whatever capacity he serves in following his resignation. >> thank you very much. we are minutes away from a white house briefing. the first on-camera briefing since the end of june. it's been a while right now. obviously for the white house press corps, this is an unusual event, as is the departure of sean spicer, who will stay on through august. how late into august, we don't know. whether that is a sign as well, after this tweet that anthony

scaramucci starts later or is concurrent with that. anyone's guess. but right now, everyone wants to know how will things change around here beside just a changing of the people who will be doing things around here. after this. playing ] it's here, but it's going by fast. the opportunity of the year is back: the mercedes-benz summer event. get to your dealer today for incredible once-a-season offers, and start firing up those grilles. lease the gle350 for $579 a month at your local mercedes-benz dealer. mercedes-benz. the best or nothing.

. neil: all right, we're waiting

for our first white house on-camera, live briefing, sarah huckabee sanders doing the honors in about eight or nine minutes. meanwhile, we want to pass along the story of the day, we learned that sean spicer is leaving the administration. that the impetus for all of this, anthony scaramucci coming into be the new communications director of the white house. reince priebus, who we're told said over his dead body would accept scaramucci becoming the communications director. now saying to the associated press that he supports scaramucci 100%. trying to prevent the financier from getting multiple administration positions, he goes onto say, we go back a long, long way. we're very good friends. said of scaramucci. charlie gasparino, what were you going to say? >> steve bannon, the senior

adviser to president trump who said the quote over my dead body should he be named. neil: priebus never put it on the line. >> no, but priebus was against it. and let me just catch people up to this because there is interesting breaking news we have. we know this from white house sources, white house not denying it, from trump asked scaramucci in his current job in the export-import bank before he took this job. he asked scaramucci to assess priebus's job performance. he asked scaramucci what do you think he's doing? how good of a job is he doing? from what we hear inside the white house, this periodically comes up, the priebus fire watch is coming up. neil: the latest shoe to drop. >> i think there's a lot of shoes to drop. we have the whole thing with sessions which is pending. priebus, i'm wondering if maybe the communications job that scaramucci is going to take

over could be a place holder for the chief of staff job. donald trump wants somebody who understands life outside the beltway. reince priebus was excellent as head of the rnc but definitely inside the beltway. i think trump wants more people on the team that really represent the rebellious outside of the beltway attitude that he brought into the white house because priebus certainly is a creature of the beltway. >> but why? let's be real clear here. you know, six months into the administration, if you look at the issues facing the administration, it's not reince priebus's fault. certainly not sean spicer's fault. neither of them told donald trump to do the interview with the "new york times." neil: by the way, the president six months in, jfk had trouble, bill clinton had trouble. >> ronald reagan changed light of people on the staff. the one word, why?

how many times have you asked that about what donald trump has done? if you go crazy if you ask that. accept donald trump for what he is, he is a person that hates life inside the beltway. ain't for nothing, not just for the money he's living in new york. this is proof he's not going to, neil. >> david, he's not been a very good president. he's got good policy, not able to implement them. >> as far as executive decisions go i disagree with you strongly. he changed the way business is done in the country. >> do you think, do your people tell you, charlie gasparino, that this president would listen and that an anthony scaramucci in this case would be able to offer free, unfiltered advice and tell the president not a good idea? >> he'll be fired if he does. >> there, i agree with you. >> here's the problem. you can pass as many executive orders as you want, if you don't reform dodd-frank, cut

corporate taxes, if you don't reform obamacare, you are failing. neil: get reaction from you on this, sean spicer, apparently on his resignation, through the associated press, the white house is at a point where trump would benefit from a clean slate. >> we're going to hear from him, from sean spicer himself tonight on hannity. he's going to be appearing. we'll get advanced stuff. keep it on fbn, we'll run sound bites from the interview. sean spicer inside the beltway for a long time for a reason. he knows how to go along or get along to go along however you say it. neil: a clean slate, that's how things will change? >> a clean slate is more than just scaramucci. neil: i don't think the president would change and i don't think someone is going to comfortably challenge him. >> and remember, sean was just fired -- >> whoa, whoa, whoa, sean was not fired. >> please. >> he was not fired. they wanted to keep him on. when he brought in scaramucci

as the post, sean went to the president and said he isn't qualified for the job. >> how many times has sean said something and donald trump anticipated -- neil: why do they all feel that way about him in this particular job? >> anthony? >> yeah. >> look at his statements from davos, when he went there, allegedly as the trump -- neil: talking about scaramucci? >> the trump administration liaison to davos. the world economic forum. neil: why didn't bannon like him? >> all that together. look at those statements. neil: bannon wasn't anti-investment. he's the former goldman guy. >> i think they think he's not qualified for the job, they think he's a loose cannon. neil: bannon calling anyone a loose cannon is like me saying eat a salad. >> he doesn't give press conferences, though. neil: they conveyed to the president this was a bad idea? >> yes. neil: and the president said to hell with you.

>> yep. >> i didn't hear that. >> establishment, anthony scaramucci is a steve bannon revolutionary. are you out of your mind? >> they're different people. the point is he is not inside the beltway. he is not inside beltway kind of guy. >> he is a bundler! neil: in the president's eyes, he is the dna rebellious spirit. i said that without cursing. >> dna -- >> somebody say something cursing in my ear? >> bundling money for years. neil: look at the time, guys. i want to thank you both very, very much. you have lawyer on line one for you. trish regan to take us through

the next hour on this. the first press conference we've had on live tv, video rolling. trish: big day, neil. we're waiting to hear from the white house any minute from now breaking news. we have sean spicer resigning as white house press secretary. after president trump taps former fox business host anthony scaramucci to be the new communications director. welcome to "the intelligence report." we wait here on the white house. ii want to share with you sean spicer's tweet. he wrote, it has been an honor and a privilege to serve @potus, @realdonaldtrump, this amazing country. i continue my service through august. he will stay on a little bit. white house chief of staff reince priebus says he supports scaramucci 100%.