was convinced we would hit 22,000. we have the graphic ready to go. we have pictures of money floating down from the heavens but we did not hit 22,000. look at us now. with five second tosca view toe we're very -- to cavuto, we're close to 22-k. neil, it is yours. neil: i'm sorry. reading a tweet from trump. let me see here. neil is a fat loser, sad. liz: stop it. stop it. neil: thank you my friend. we have lot going on. i apologize for my voice. we'll get through this the dow approaching 22,000. a lot of people are saying maybe this is apart from washington? this is all driven by earnings. charlie gasparino, what do you think? >> a lot of it is. a lot of it is what we were talking about the other day i, donald trump for all the hysterics and dysfunction is better than the alternative. the alternative would be much higher corporate taxes, much

more regulations, no drilling, war on coal, everything you saw from obama hillary clinton would have done on steroids, at least that's what she ran on. neil: she would probably ram that through republican congress. would have been tough. >> you have a republican congress. neil: you're absolutely right. >> you literally have a stopgap on everything, marginally upside surprises which is health care maybe some day. who knows. neil: they don't give that up do they? >> taxes. taxes should be cut. neil: it is getting later and later. >> here is the other positive for the market. a lot of people are telling me tax cuts are not really priced into this thing. what it is working on essentially decent to middling economic growth like obamaesque economic growth between one and two, somewhere in that ballpark. low inflation, low interest rates and decent corporate earnings, put all that together

and some marginal optimism that donald trump is not a socialist, thus he won't regulate the economy. he can do a lot of things to deregulate the economy through executive orders. that is all playing in here. neil: you know, i've gotten interesting vibes from capitol hill. one was steve mnuchin yesterday, treasury secretary saying, most households paying top rate won't get a tax cut. there is a move on the part of some prominent republicans to keep them out of it, not to hike their taxes like steve bannon, not give them a cut. how would that go down? >> if that, upper rate stays marginally the same, if you have lower corporate tax rate, a lot of people think that is net positive for the economy. and for the markets. i personally think we should be giving tax cuts. i'm a supply side -- neil: corporate rate cut would outweigh whatever happens or doesn't happen for the wealthy? >> market analysts think that the corporate rate cut is more important than individual rates

in terms of helping the economy by boosting corporate earnings, by allowing some degree of repatriation of overseas money if you work that into the equation. and thus, good for the stock market. if it is good for the economy, generally booed for the stock market and good for the corporate earnings. neil: i think you might be right, marginal rates are delayed past this year, the rich don't get theirs, but the corporate rates come down maybe not as low as 15% but they come down a lot lower than 35%, maybe to 20%, we could continue to be off to the races? >> i think, when i talk to people, they will say that is an upside surprise. so it is not even that. we could get a significant boost in the market if that is what goes down. neil: did you tell me the prevailing top rate is 27 so you want to go substantially below that. >> you have to bring it down to 25 to 20.

there is psychological boost when you bring it down. does that mean the market won't sell off? of course. does that mean all straight runs up, no corrections? there is always corrections and there is always -- but when you start thinking about it, if you have decent corporate earnings now, you have a tax cut, guess what, if the fed doesn't massively hike rates and don't get massive inflation, we probably won't, that is buy for the market, good for the economy and net good. people forget that donald trump can do a few things really well, okay? in the next three, four months, and his presidency can take, go from 180 from dysfunction to wow, look how good this is. if he gets economy going and gets fiscal stimulus. neil: stay focused instead of going through personnel like me through a ponderosa buffet. >> or me at a boar, at martini bar. i'm just telling you that if he

does those things right, neil, that is what the market is saying because it is operating really without the notion -- neil: tax cuts minus core ones, because i assume they're getting, maybe not, they don't happen this year or market will hold their own? >> i think they can if corporate earnings stay up. it is all about corporate. you need earnings growth. neil: we'll have back-to-back double-digit hike quarters. >> look at earnings they are good now, minus tax cuts. throw in the tax cuts. i'm not telling people to buy stocks right now. i'm always very cautious. i don't give market advice. i'm laying groundwork why this is up now, why might get better. neil: lower third, gasparino says, buy, buy, buy? >> don't put that there. i do not give advice. when i talk to people, talk to people, institutional investors and traders, tax cuts are not priced into this market.

tax cuts are upside surprise. if you get decent corporate tax cut specifically it is really good for markets. that doesn't mean it won't be pare back, but good long term for markets. neil: buddy, thank you very much. charlie gasparino. >> you need to drink pumpkin spice lattes. i hear that soothes it. neil: you're free. >> i will get you. neil: karl rove, with us, excellent political mind, really good writer, best-selling author. karl, i don't expect you to be a market soothsayer although you're pretty good at reading markets. they seem to be oblivious what is going on with the personnel sheikh upor not too concerned about it and more focused on just big macro issues that look good as charlie said. what do you think? >> yeah. i think there is a lot of wisdom in that. i think they're focused on fundamentals and corporate profits are strong and i think they do believe there will be a corporate tax cut. i'm with charlie, i'm not

certain how much -- when you have got a personal income tax system in which 50% of the filers pay 1% of the tax, and top 50% of filers pay 99% of the tax, if you, if you are only focused on taking people who have modest tax burden and cutting their taxes, it will have effect on ability to spend but not as powerful as corporate tax side which will be more of a supply side encouraging investment in the economy particularly if we can get repatriation of some of those trillions of dollars. neil: i know we can, karl, but on this i'm not optimistic. i think there will be a tax cut to your point. it will be about reconciliation. it won't be dramatic tax reforms. my opinion rich will be left out of it. and i don't know if that is going to be everything that everyone was looking forward to when this presidency started? >> yeah. well, i do have confidence that they will get a tax cut, that they will get a corporate tax cut.

neil: i agree with that. i just don't he think it will be eye-popping off the charts? >> i agree, but i think they will get repatriation of foreign earnings. this is one of those weird moments where there is bipartisan support for doing that. if that happens then, i think we'll get a good economic bump from that. neil: you talk about bipartisan support. a number of senate democrats have put out, karl, this condition plan for working with republicans. part of their demands, 45 of 48 democratic senators signed on to this, no tax cuts for top 1%. no fast tracking. in other words, don't use reconciliation process, and no deficit finance cuts. what do you make of that? >> well, that is their opening gambit. neil: right. >> they're feeling rather bullish right now in the aftermath of the failure of republican health care effort. we'll see how it goes over the long haul. you notice that they had, you know some democrats who were privately saying to their republican colleagues we want to

work with you you on this. republicans are not going to give up the advantage of doing this through reconciliation. neil: by the way three democrats did not sign that letter. not surprisingly joe manchin of west virginia, heidi heitkamp of north dakota, joe donnelly indiana. up for re-election last year in states donald trump won last year. >> i would suspect more democrats, nelson of florida, mccaskill of missouri. maybe tester of montana, who will be saying you know what? we're not going to, we're not going to insist on the whole load. we can't to get something in return for this. they will find some face saving way, well you didn't cut taxes for people at top. i wanted to encourage economic growth in my state and the country. so i agree with you though on fundamental point that i think you're making which is, at beginning of the year we had expectticses we'll have a very big robust bit of tax reform and tax cut. we've slimmed down the expectations for amount of

reform we've got. also i suspect reduce somewhat our expectations for breadth of the tax cut itself. neil: when i have you here, i didn't have a chance to talk to you when you did this, john mccain's no vote on skinny repeal, what did you think of that? >> i mystified. first of all he went to the floor, said we need to do this in bipartisan way. i will vote to proceed on the so-called skinny reform measure because i want to have the process continue. he then joined with three other republican senators said we want absolute commitment from the speaker of the house that if the skinny reform passes the senate, that it will not be taken up immediately by the house and passed in its current form? instead we'll go to conference committee and grind through this process more. speaker of the house based himself in front of senator mccain, senator graham, and two others you have my word we won't take up measure. we'll refer it to the conference committee.

having received that commitment, mccain turns around and votes no on the floor. one thing he insisted upon he got. rather than by starting off saying i'm going to vote for something in order to continue process, turns around and votes no, stops the process. it doesn't make much sentence. neil: i'm wondering karl, what your thoughts are on changes going on within the white house? we have a lot of personnel come and go. anthony scaramucci latest. general john kelly running things as chief of staff. he has said, president backs him up, everyone goes through him. will they? >> well i hope they do because everyone inside of the white house needs to know that they work in an organization, and at the top of that organization between them and president is chief of staff. does that mean they never walk into the oval to share a thought? no, that doesn't mean that. but it means they don't use their privilege of talking to the president in order to end-run the policy process in the white house. i worked for a president who

insisted that his chief of staff, first andy card, josh bolton, be seen by all of the senior people in the white house as their boss. andy card was my boss. sure, i could tell the president something but i better make certain i was not end-running policy process and andy card was aware of what i was saying and doing. neil: it is a little different. ivanka trump saying she looks forward to serving alongside general kelly. what do you make of that? >> this is problem. in the west wing you don't want somebody you can't fire. if your son-in-law and daughter are in the west wing, it is their responsibility to go out of their way to make certain they're not seen as colleagues of the person in charge of the west wing. that is to say, they don't see it as peers of the chief of staff. they are subordinates who work through and with the chief of staff in other to advance the president's agenda. it is incumbent upon them, if they want to make the west wing first to restrain themselves. i had a long-standing

relationship with president bush. we've known each other since i was in my early 20s, and he was in his mid 20s. he made it clear, don't abuse that relationship. your colleagues, many of whom have known him far shorter time than i had, those colleagues are critical to the success of this presidency. so be a good colleague and don't abuse that relationship. and it was good advice. more important advice when you're favorite daughter and son-in-law of the president of the united states. you better make certain you're serving the president best by serving him through the chief of staff. neil: this white house now is with the whole scaramucci saga, what did you think of that? >> first of all it is sort of painful because i've known anthony for a long time. he is ebullient personality but general kelly had no other option. i was not surprised he immediately dismissed hill. i would have been surprised had he not.

anthony did things and said things that were inappropriate. i thought it was interesting, monday he explained his relationship with reince priebus saying they were brothers like cain and able. axios reported that ivanka and jared brought scaramucci into the office forcing reince priebus out. so discouraging would force resignation. that may or may not be true. if it is true, cain did kill able, like cain in the bible, who was sent out into the wilderness, anthony scaramucci has been sent out into the wilderness. neil: no prospect after white house job right? >> no, none at all. neil: my friend, good to catch up with you. karl rove. >> i want to say one thing. varney made an attempt to lay the predicate believing that if the market jumps over 22,000 it is his, that he is responsible for that, but markets are forward-looking. i think upward movement in the

morning they were looking forward to your program. neil: i totally agree. >> if it crosses 22,000, it is you and varney. neil: i so had it with that guy and the fake british accent, i am up to here. >> it is not fake, it is a real british accent. neil: you are wrong. i have the birth certificate, brooklyn, new york, you would never believe it. karl, thank you very much. >> thank you, sir. neil: meanwhile the senate is still going to be at work and will still go on next two weeks. the only question i have, what will they be doing, after this. potsch: you each drive a ford pickup, right?

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>> our objective is to pass tax reform by august recess. that is timetable and realistic and something the president and i are commit todd doing. neil: by august, voted, done, agreed. >> and signed. neil: that was the hope anyway back than, back in early march. not so now. the read on all this with montana republican senator steve daines. senator, good to have you. now the strategy to get a vote at least in the senate by november, is that doable? >> well, neil, spent 28 years in

the private sector, we used to say importance of focus, the main thing is to keep the main thing the main thing. we campaigned last seven years to repeal and replace obamacare, to move tax reform forward. we should call tax reform the american jobs creation act. this is about growing the economy. making america competitive again. this is what we've got to do. i left the private sector to enter public service for these reasons, to swing bats at the big balls. it is health care reform, it is tax reform the failure is not an option. neil: i know that. you echoed it on health care. but you failed at that one, not you specifically but is that november team table, however the urgent you feel it is, doable? >> it is. well, it is doable. we've got to do it. in fact on health care reform, remember this health care bill is like a cat with nine lives. it was given up for dead once in the house. it came back. the senate has got to be able to

walk and chew gum at the same time. we have to juggle at least a couple of balls and i think we continue to work on health care reform. this graham-cassidy idea something we need to consider. it has white house supporting it. we need to bring it to senators to talk about it. we can do that and move forward on tax reform. neil: i know you can, senator, i know you're working hard and not part of the group rejected measures to keep the debate going. how you do you feel about the surprise no vote of your colleague, senator john mccain on that skinny repeal measure. >> it was disappointing. surprised a lot of folks. i respect senator mccain greatly. he is an american hero but i disagree strongly with his vote. that was a vote to move the process forward, to continue to dialogue with our friends in the house and get a bill on the floor of the senate and house and on the president's desk in the next month. that doesn't mean you give up. when you have setbacks in life, if you have setbacks in business

you just don't fold up the tent and go home. in fact you double down on your efforts. that is what we must do. we must infinancefy and continue to stay focused on health care reform and tax reform. neil: democrats are offering a sort of like a set of conditions to got in on this tax cut work with you, but one of their provisos, senator, is no tax cuts for the top 1%. what do you think about that? >> yeah, never want to forget you can't be pro jobs unless you're pro-job creator. unless you incentivize men and women out there creating jobs, how will we be create jobs? we have a tax code that is is not competitive in this global economy anymore. that has got to change. neil: you would be against agreeing to that condition? >> i would, absolutely. you have to keep all options on table. neil: some of your republican colleagues who are nervous about granting upper income a tax cut, that it wouldn't look good. how do you feel? >> if you get nervous by every attack you get you're in the

wrong business, you really are. this is going to take courage, doing the right thing for the economy, right thing for hard-working americans. to stay competitive, to increase wages, increase jobs. that takes courage. you can't just continue to listen to attacks. talk about what the vision is going forward. this is what we get paid to do. tell you what if we can't bring this thing together, mcconnell said couple months ago, you're in the wrong line of work, find something else to do, this is about action and results. we have to get something done. neil: sorry,er is, if you stick to the november timetable, would those cuts, should the cuts be retroactive beginning of the year or start next year? >> move them retroactive sooner. get money back in hands of american people. sooner economy will start to recover. sooner gdp growth north of 3%. so i would make a retroactive 1st of january. let's get moving. make something happen. time is ticking. we'll move into the election season pretty soon.

time of the essence. let's get it done. neil: senator, thank you for taking time. >> you bet. neil: this is probably be tonic to the markets. they're up of their own accord, raising towards 22,000. cheryl casone at new york stock exchange. what is going on? >> neil, you can't take your eyes off these numbers right now. we were 11 points away from hitting dow 22,000. we're still very close. the day is young. we're at 21,983. gain of 92 points and change. that is very close. all about the stocks and stories, what got us hire especially since president trump was inaugurated back on january 20th. if you look top stocks how they performed since he took office, look at boeing, this is a stock, call it global growth, that stock is up 51% since donald trump took office. take a look at mcdonald's. this isn't just all-day breakfast, folks, this is a gain of 27%.

apple enough said, that stock is up 24% since the election. those earnings coming out after the bell. we'll have full coverage on fox business. look at visa up 23%. caterpillar up 21%. a lot of build-up in caterpillar last couple months is promise, neil, on infrastructure. can we get a billion dollar infrastructure bill passed. if we get through health care and tax reform we'll see. talk about companies account for the dow. we talk about the dow components. those names we look at. look at boeing, 562 of the points we gained since president trump took office january 20th, that goes to boeing. united health 230 points. take a look at mcdonald's. 227 points. this is the context, the reason behind this build. take a look at apple, 199. really quick that cross-section between wall street and washington, neil, it is alive and well, but today anyway, despite all the chaos happened in the white house yesterday and last week, traders are saying look the market doesn't really

care about anything going on at the white house. donald trump was inaugurated january 20th. we said his presidency would be like a carnival ride. neil, it has been. they're ignoring all of the noise out of d.c. they're focusing on numbers. hey, your 401(k) may benefit, neil. neil: helps to make money. it changes people's perception of things. thank you very much, cheryl. art laffer knows a thing or two how lower taxes can help people make money. so much so that the economy can really boom. just how much of a boom? art is next.

:

. neil: all right, we're inching closer to dow 22,000, but what happens if tax cuts are indeed the past for everybody? maybe differ on the size of them and all, but they happen. then what? former reagan economic adviser

art laffer says history repeats itself, backs to reagan years, and we get a boom going. how big a boom? let's ask him. how big are you looking for? >> a real big boom. better conditions today than the conditions that jimmy carter left us in the 1980s, it could be a large and long-term boom. let me give you the dimensions if i can, between january 31,183, and june 30, 1984, 18 months period there, during that 18 months period, real gdp in the united states grew by 12%, a little less than 8% per annum growth rates in a year and a half. got killed in the elections in 1982, we lost house seats, senate seat, reagan's popularity fell from above 70 to 30s, it was terrible. by 84, after the growth spurt,

it was a real close presidential election, we only won 49 states. all the democrats became reagan republicans and the world progressed. that's exactly what i think should happen if we only get that corporate tax rate reduction now. neil:un, you mentioned that period where southern democrats, the so-called boll weevils went to support tax initiatives, democrats are open to working with republicans on taxes, but they've got a number of demands, including no tax cuts on the top 1%, no reconciliation, no fast tracking, no deficit finance cuts, what do you think of that? >> they wanted to eliminate everything that could create growth to be honest with you. everyone knows that corporate tax rates are the biggest creators of economic growth. everyone knows that anything that has no net tax effects, these pays for, knows that we never had the 20s or the boom

of the 20s or the boom of the kennedy period. all those are literally off the table. if they're taken seriously, the democrats should be in charge. neil: interesting, three democrats didn't go along with that letter, what i call the demand letter. joe manchin of west virginia, joe donnelly of indiana. if you can cobble those three with 52 republicans, even if a few of the republicans peel off, that gives you wiggle room. >> a lot of wiggle room. frankly, they know what's coming up in the election in 2018, neil. i think what is it, 25 democrats up and 9 republicans. neil: those three are not so coincidentally states that donald trump won big. >> very true, and not coincidental which ones voted against the health care too of the republicans. these guys are politically motivated. sad that they don't look at the

country. sad, here we go, when reagan did this, we didn't get just southern and moderate democrats, ted kennedy, metzenbaum, allen kranzen, schumer, reed, durbin, all of the ultraleft-wing democrats. today on our side because they know what they did then was right and what they're doing now is wrong. neil: i did want to hear what you had to say about the shake-up in the white house, the latest one, a little order now come to play here or more to come? >> well, i hope so, neil, my view is this is entertainment as well as real serious politics, and you got to admit this stuff is -- you can't write this type of stuff, it's just, if you laugh about it and enjoy it it's like monica lewinsky and all that stuff, "saturday night live" has never been better, and just enjoy it, don't take it too seriously, keep your blood pressure under control, and the white house has always been a source of

enormous entertainment and still is. neil: do you have any -- any recollection of a presidency bedeviled by this type of turnover so soon? >> oh, yeah! you remember the elliot richardson firing at midnight. boric and all of that stuff. neil: yeah with, richard nixon. >> and went to watch all that stuff with clinton. it was amazing, al hague, al hague, i'm in charge here was pretty much in the beginning, too. all of them have different aspects, no writer can do it and just entertaining as all heck and it has no serious impact on policy. it really doesn't, neil, it's just pure entertainment, and we'll get our tax cuts, our health care through, it may not be this month or year, but we will get all of that through. neil: better not be a year for tax cuts, the health care is not going anywhere. >> i would like to see it very soon, don't get me wrong. life is a marathon, neil, not a sprint. neil: really?

i hate both, actually. >> i do, too. . neil: thank you very much, art laffer. all right, president trump wants like the dickens to go ahead and get this health care thing right. so if congress can't do it, there are steps he's apparently is taking where he will. ♪ the great beauty of owning a property is that you can create wealth through capital appreciation, and this has been denied to many south africans for generations. this is an opportunity to right that wrong. the idea was to bring capital into the affordable housing space in south africa, with a fund that offers families of modest income safe and good accommodation. citi® got involved very early on, and showed an enormous commitment. and that gave other investors confidence. citi's really unique, because they bring deep understanding of what's happening in africa.

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. neil: all right, if at first you don't succeed, you keep trying again and again and again, that's the ways at been for republicans with repealing obamacare. now senator rand paul offered a novel idea to the president. why don't you use executive orders to allow people to form their own health care co-ops, undo other parts of obamacare. to great america pac co-chair eric beach, former democratic ohio state senator capri cafaro. eric, what do you think of this? >> i think he needs to examine

all options and put them all on the table. fact of the matter is he ran on repealing and replacing obamacare, and i think one thing we can all agree on is obamacare is failing. rather than let it implode and let the american people suffer, the president needs to do, try to find solutions that help all americans and if that one example, if he's trying to go and go around the congress or do something where he can do executive order, to roll back the unnecessary regulations that obamacare has, then i think he should try to have that option on the table, i think rand paul is correct. neil: one of the ideas, capri, was to let's say you're a group like the aarp and want to get your own little medical consortium or group or your own aarp exchange, i'm probably not describing it. >> i know what you're saying, association health plans. nothing wrong with that or organizations coming together. there are a number of organizations that have

coalitions of small businesses that come together and they're able to purchase in a group setting prior to the affordable care act. so there's nothing wrong with that concept. you know, my issue is that that's not necessarily going to be a solution for the millions of americans that have been counting on the affordable care act because they have preexisting conditions, not necessarily going to affect the issue of affordability for those with preexisting conditions, not going to open up you know access to providers for those individuals, so while that might be, it's a fine idea and works for some, but i don't believe it's going to really address the issues. i mean the other part of it is this, election have consequences. trump has latitude of executive orders and can do whatever he'd like to do, but the american people deserve a congress that functions. recognizing that trump is frustrated and going to utilize the powers he has but some of

those go back to whether he has statutory authority under the affordable care act for the administrative agencies. this isn't as cut and dry as it seems on its face. neil: executive orders rarely are. this president spent a lot of time undoing the last president's executive orders so they can have a short shelf life. do you think, eric, republicans should bother? there is a political thought, go onto tax cuts, let the democrats come to you guys, what do you think? >> i've always said the most politically expedient thing is let obamacare fail and move onto other issues that he ran on. he ran on solutions, and the one thing i think we can do better as republicans is ask the democrats. do you really want to stay with obamacare in the failing measure over the last seven years or come to the table with solutions? i heard capri talk about this might not work or opening up the state lines and this is only one piece of the puzzle but haven't heard from democrats or haven't asked democrats, you know, they really have a choice, stick

with obamacare or fix it? when you get zero votes out of the democratic party to me shows their hand. >> you can hear from this democrat who has a solution, i co-authored medicaid reform in ohio, it was passed into law in 2013. we were able to increase and improve health outcomes and lower the cost of spending, we created a spending cap, legislative oversight, managed care in ohio. and i've been saying this consistently. democrats need to come to the table with solutions and a number of models across the country, innovation, waivers that have been granted to a number of states. neil: ohio is unique, you have a republican governor as well who loves that medicaid, right? >> well, because we are doing it effectively, and because managed care, it's a public-private partnership working well, always things to improve, but a good place to start. neil: we have news and i want to get your thoughts on it.

the senate has apparently set up a 6:15 tonight confirmation vote for christopher wray, the next fbi director, the vote will start at 2:15 p.m. on the heels of one congressman who is concerned, this is trent franks of the judiciary committee, concerned that robert mueller isn't going to be a fair arbiter as the special counsel, and he should resign. what do you think of that, eric? >> well, as you know, neil, we've been on this really since day one, i think you have to -- nobody questions mr. muller's integrity. we question this process, even in james comey's own words, he leaked to the new york press to start an independent counsel. independent counsels are supposed to be just that, independent. and you have to look at hirings mr. mueller has made, and the one thing they ask as an owner of the pac is simply suggest how come there's no leaks that happen about the hillary

clinton measures or anything from debbie wasserman schultz that go about whether or not they're being investigated? but the leaks are very troubling. we want the process to be fair, want it to be impartial, and from our standpoint, it's something that we can certainly inquire about. we can inquire about it. unelected bureaucrats don't have that power, we can inquire about it or ask about the process. neil: capri? >> i agree leaks are not good and shouldn't happen on either side, but i do think that mueller does have the integrity and should be able to do his job, and if there are issues in his team, they answer to him, and he's going to need to take care of the issues. we need to let the investigation take course, and, you know, washington, d.c., inside the beltway, needs to remember that main street is counting on them. we can't continue to go on circles and gotcha issues surrounding this investigation,

it needs to go and take its course. neil: thank you very much. the senate is expected to have a 6:15 p.m. confirmation vote on christopher wray to be the next fbi director. what's in store for the debate? right after this. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪

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. neil: all right, u.s. long-range missile test scheduled for tomorrow as officials continue to warn north korea, all of the missiles are not going unnoticed. we should point out and pointing out the next guest, that kim jong-un has already launched more missiles than his father and grandfather combined. and unlike others who sort of dismiss the north korean leader as just a quack, new york republican congressman lee zeldin said this quack is intent on getting better with each missile test. good to see you. >> good to see you, too, neil. neil: he does fine tune this with every launch, doesn't he? >> not just an act of aggression. he looks at the science, he's trying to become more efficient. have a longer range, there's -- it's a test, and sometimes we cover a test as an act of aggression, but there's more to it. neil: the early attacks he was getting the missiles way off the course or, you know, not

doing what they were supposed to do. he and his engineers fine tune it and get it right the next time or the time after that. >> has to do with the weight of the technology, the speed, the velocity, the angle it goes up in the air, the entry on back, the precision. neil: they are capable of going further and further and further, we have illustrations to prove it. it's not just alaska that could be hit. what is he doing? what is his goal? >> for one, there's a lot more leverage that he has. if he has the ability to deliver a nuclear warhead to the united states, and there are tremendous needs for his country that their relationship with china isn't doing enough. i mean, there's a tremendous amount of economic pressure that already exists on the north koreans. neil: china doesn't appear to be doing squat.

>> clienta doesn't appear to be doing squat. neil: in fact, china was blaming us, not the north koreans. >> we operate against the principle of dime and the economic pressure that needs to be applied, what good pressure doesn't exist that involves china. if you want to apply economic pressure on north korea but china is continuing to have the import-export environment that currently exists. neil: why would china want to do that? talk about destabilizing and getting us off our guard, and we have to be extra diligent in another region of the world, this stands to boomerang on china. >> i would hope it needs to be a red line, under no circumstances are they allowed to deliver a nuclear warhead to the united states. the whole host of options will be laid out, should be laid out to the president of the united states. i don't know if china actually

believes that chaos of that m on the dime principle is imminent. neil: what would trigger that? >> if the chinese felt like the united states was about to enforce a red line, and it would cause -- neil: i don't think we are. >> and i don't think we are, either. we're not prepared to enforce a red line. hopefully the trump administration's working really hard to be able to have all their options ready if need be, but we all recognize that is definitely not a first option, and the chinese knowing -- neil: north korea would respond, it's outright war, millions of lives. >> it is the worst possible scenario of the dime principle is having to use the military option, but what you can't do is just allow the north koreans to have this ability, and as the chinese i believe are more aware of an imminent need on the part of the united states to enforce the red line --

>> what if china can't control them? i'm giving them whacky benefit of the doubt. it's scarier. >> and it's certainly a possibility. and chinese efforts where we believe the multilateral diplomatic ideas that come into play involve china. the e, the economics, on the information campaign, the people who live in north korea, they look at kim jong-un, look up to kim jong-un. and someone told me a story they were in pyongyang and got into an elevator. the woman giving them this tour once again on the elevator, changed her demeanor and said kim jong-un once rode on this elevator. and he was explaining the story, just amazing how much they look up to the leaders. neil: i get that here. >> similar to being at fox news and neil cavuto on the elevator. neil: exactly. seriously. i wonder, we threaten, we threaten and the time for talk is over. we keep saying that, and they keep testing the missiles, testing the missiles where, is

this going? >> and again, relatively simple to understand what our options are. anything that doesn't involve the military, we've concluded has to somehow involve china. china isn't participating and we're not at point where we're using the military option and quite frankly i don't think the trump administration was inheriting a range of options as far as the m in the dime principle. neil: we don't know, we don't know. >> the strategy is not working but we got to figure it out. neil: congressman lee zeldin of the beautiful state of new york. all right, look at dow here, closing in. 22,000. more after this. where to get in... where to get out. if only the signs were as obvious when you trade. fidelity's active trader pro can help you find smarter entry and exit points and can help protect your potential profits. fidelity -- where smarter investors will always be. poallergies?reather. stuffy nose? can't sleep? take that.

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. neil: all right, the media still obsessed and reporting on the latest white house shake-ups. for good reason, they are historically eye-popping but they are not anomlies and certainly during the trump campaign, there were a lot of them and the guy ended up getting elected president. we've got president trump's media advisory board member, we saw a lot of turnover during the campaign, didn't we? >> well, we did, but you know, i think that the president's ideal that he kind of laid out during the campaign is what has resonated most with the american people, and i think that's why the president is coming back to those people who

were loyal to him during the campaign, going all the way back to the escalator moment that we all remember because who knows, those people with him through the tough times, when neil, every single pundit, all the experts were saying that this man could never, ever, ever be elected and yet he was, trump is returning to the loyalists now. >> you know, anthony scaramucci was a loyalist, but then he just imploded himself. what did you think of the way he was summarily dismissed? >> the media wants to focus all the time, you being a foodie, you understand, the media wants to focus on the sausage making rather than the great bratwurst. scaramucci came and went, somewhere in that period of time, there is a definite limit in the leakers that we were seeing prior to that. so sometimes trump is -- whether it is intentional, you know this 4 d chess or whether

it is accidental, trump has amazing instincts and the ultimate results are what matter to the american people. you look at investors right now, neil, you look at consumer confidence. look at the way the markets are going, and you go, you know what? this guy is doing something right. can we talk about that for a second? neil: you know what i noticed when anthony scaramucci did in his first press conference, he's very smart, knows what he's doing, but he talked too much. i always think for the advisories in any capacity, you want to keep it short, to the point. you want to remember who's running the show, and you don't want to make yourself the show, but time and again, countless administrations, people forget that. >> yeah, they do, and as the wife of a former state senator, i can tell you the job of those supporting the president has to

continue ally be to support to advance his agenda and not to ever make it about you, so i think that's something that comes along with leadership, and i think this president, the thing that's great about this president is he always seems to recognize when someone is going a little off the track, and he acts swiftly and decisively, that's leadership that we haven't seen in oh so long in this country, neil, it's refreshing to most americans who are out there on main street hoping we can advance an agenda, get health care prices down, insurance prices down is more aptly true, and tax reform and regulation reform. neil: they have to stabilize the ship, right? stabilize the ship? >> i think the ship is stabile though, neil. neil: i don't know. >> look at the sausage and not the sausage making, everybody wants to attack the president on how he's getting the job done, but the bottom line is, neil, he's getting the job done.

can you predict these sorts of markets under donald trump? neil: i already did. i predicted to the day. >> some of the best experts didn't, neil, and some -- neil: well, they were watching cnbc, i can't help that. >> what can you do? [laughter] >> betsy woodruff on all of this, betsy, as gina and i were touching on the craziness with personnel, i know it happens, but this is truncated in a short period of time, get in the way of the president doing the things gina outlined. >> certainly, the fact is the senate failed to pass a health care bill. the president for the most part did not prove that his much touted deal-making skills were able to change the game there. he wasn't able to get a chamber that has a republican majority to advance exact health care agenda that he campaigns on, and to make it happen. i think without a doubt, there's a lot of room that the president needs to make up for

when it comes to getting agenda to move forward, additionally, you don't fire your chief of staff or push out or have chief of staff resign, whatever the technical term, is you don't lose communications director after 11 days if things are going well and normally. based on conversations with folks at dhs and folks who worked closely with general kelly in the past. there's a high expectation things in the white house change substantially now that he's come in. neil: i agree with that, betsy. that was the change the doctor ordered and quite right in saying you don't make the changes without recognizing you need to make the changes. i should say people caught up in the moment, forget they used to say that about abraham lincoln going through generals like tissue paper or bill clinton had the rocky first two years that ronald reagan had. and they all came back through that. i'm not saying that's comparable to donald trump.

but history proves whatever impression we can, can be wrong. >> sure, and i think without a doubt there is inclination in the beltway media to err on the side of hysterics when it comes to what's going on in the white house, we have a tendency to overstate the mental drama. neil: i have never seen you do, that betsy. everyone else. you know what i wondered about, though? normally when you've gone through a great deal of turnover and left in the short period of time. that is unusual, the sheer number who left after such a short time voluntarily or kicked in the fanny out the door, you want it to calm down, and i wonder if it ever will, if it's part of the management style of donald trump, that he could fall in and out of love with you very, very quickly, and that that could be a sign of things to come. >> my understanding is one of the big challenges for the trump white house is so many of the staffers there are

constantly leaking to reporters. constantly telling it reporters about the problems, about the tensions, about sort of the palace intrigue behind the scenes. so the big question then becomes can general kelly get that sort of off-the-record concern broadcasting to be rolled back a little bit does. he get the staff of the white house to focus on making the white house function properly and got to focus on calling reporters. neil: he is the conduit through which they go? >> exactly. neil: one person violates that, it's over. >> right, exactly. and from my conversations with folks who dealt with investigations, who have managed large staff, who have to deal with this leaking problem, you have to make an example of someone. when jack danforth was running the waco special counsel probe in the 90s he immediately fired the first person on the probe he found out leaked because he knew -- neil: forgot about that. you are absolutely right. >> he had to fire that investigator because if he

hadn't, the leaks would have kept coming and the entire project of that probe would have been undermined. neil: thus the scaramucci firing, because that was a firing, and there was no-nonsense, he had to be very clear, kelly. >> exactly. neil: good seeing you, betsy. >> sure thing, neil. neil: all right. good to see you. >> good to be here, neil, how are you? >> i'm fine. i wanted to get your take on how general kelly is doing. >> and my premise and everyone has to recognize he's the boss there, he's the chief of staff, you want to see the president get on the schedule. you go through him, and that includes ivanka trump, that includes jared kushner. am i right? >> you are spot-on, neil. government's supposed to solve very, very complicated problems, and to do that, you

have to bring together a dozen people who are experienced, have knowledge, but to do so in a disciplined manner. you want to evaluate several alternatives for almost every policy you undertake, whether it's deterring north korean nuclear attack, deploying an effective health care system, immigration system, but it takes knowledge, experience and discipline, discipline, discipline. general kelly is very, very experienced in how to do that. to solve equivalent problems while he was in the military for almost 40 years, and he'll do a terrific job in the chief of staff role. neil: bud, i want to make sure i get years and timing right. when you were with ronald reagan, did you have to work through james baker? was he the chief of staff at the time? >> he was, and he was a masterful chief of staff.

he was sensitive to what is the limit to what a president can do? probably two things in foreign affairs, maybe two or three in domestic affairs. organize the political capital, how you deploy it, spend it. bring together knowledgeable people but in a disciplined fashion. neil: did he tell you, bud, that that -- i know you're close to the president. ronald reagan really likes you, but you go through me first and you have to check with me first? >> well, i did. it didn't work quite as well with his successor don regan. neil: that's right, i remember when they swapped jobs. >> in any event, you couldn't ask for a better chief of staff than jim baker, a marine by the way, like general kelly. neil: that's right. don regan ticked off nancy reagan, that was another problem there. it does get me back to family

and the role they play. ivanka trump made an interesting remark about general kelly, she was looking forward to serving alongside him. what did you make of that? >> well, it's a sign of maturity on ivanka's part. she has something to offer. others do as well. she respects peer approval of any proposal. neil: but alongside him. alongside him. i'm overlinguisting this, i guess. that doesn't mean reporting to. >> well, we'll see. i think general kelly wouldn't have taken the job if he didn't believe he had authority to deploy a disciplined process, including anybody who has something constructive to say, and i expect that includes the family. neil: every white house has internation rivalries, these ones are particularly pronounced in the first six months, but as you reminded me that things could calm down six

months from now, be very, very different, but a lot depends on the president, right? is the president going to take his chief of staff's advice to be focused, to be more discipline. or does that mean that donald trump can't be donald trump? >> well, a president does have to acknowledge what he doesn't know. president reagan had a real strength. it's unusual in politicians. however, in addition, you have to realize that it's a matter of self-interest. if you want to get something done, you have to rely upon people to give you a way forward on every issue because unless you do, you'll have the appearance of chaos and reselection not going to be happy experience, if you do that. >> what are your thoughts in having someone like the general in there who at this time dealing with north korea and

its background, very successful, as well as stewardship of homeland security being the right-hand guy in the office of chief of staff? >> it certainly gives a sense of confidence. you have in general kelly, 40 years of experience in not only knowing how to get things done, but the ability to inspire confidence. inspire confidence in a president and in the american people too, that somebody comes to the job with knowledge, experience and understands how to solve the problem. joe kelly is perfect in this role. neil: we talk about the metrics how we judge administration success largely on legislative wins and victories, obviously, executive orders, market performance in this case for this president, all noteworthy. but no legislative victories yet. if he finishes the year without a successful health care

rework, or tax cuts are pushed back, would you be worried? >> you noted earlier in the first year of president reagan there were difficulties, the national security adviser resigned. neil: right. >> and so you started a new agenda or with a clean slate in his second year, but by the end of that first term, growth was happening, and he launched the longest sustained period of economic growth in our country's history. 20 years and more. so, yes, this can be overcome. president can relying on a strong chief of staff solve problems, be they deterring north korea, dealing with immigration issues, health care, i'm confident things are going to get better. neil: bud mcfarlane, very wise words, always good chatting with you, thank you. >> thanks, neil. neil: speaking of the white house, we're hearing word they're going to have a

briefing at 2:00 p.m., 45 minutes from now. i wonder what will come up at the briefing? we'll see. ♪

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conditions to work with republicans on tax reform. president trump is expected to make a forceful push himself. we're going to get into those conditions. one of them is no tax cuts for the well to do. gasparino is going to go nuts with that. americans for prosperity president tim phillips, fox business' gerri willis and charlie gasparino. no tax cuts for the top 1%, don't use reconciliation, no fast track, no deficit finance cut, in other words, that would limit the scope of the cuts by definition. >> right, you will see marginal middle class cuts, maybe, just as a political tool, it doesn't really -- since karl rove pointed this out earlier today, 99% of the taxes are paid by the top 1%. if you cut middle class taxes, you don't get a lot of fiscal stimulus with that. neil: 50%. >> whatever. is 50 the top?

neil: yes. >> that's still a lot. the notion of fiscal stimulus, i think, comes down to the corporate tax cut here, and i think that's what they're focusing on. neil: they'll get that at a minimum. >> i think so, it depends how much. if they take it down to 30% and plug every loophole, guess what? you got a tax increase, the effective rate is 27%, that's with loopholes, if they plug every loophole and bring it down 20%, then you get a cut. you get something different. neil: yeah, they aren't making this vanilla, tim, aren't they? early reads on this? >> too early to say, neil. if you drop the rates down to 15 or 20% and clear out all the deductions or vast number of them. that's a better tax code, it's more fair, simpler, gives people confidence that when you say there's a certain rate. that's the actual rate, not the effective rate that you hear so much about.

also simplifying from seven brackets on the individual side to three and lowering those or as much as possible lowering those will bring simplification to the code and savings for people, too. the other thing is they have to sell this, explain this not just about rates and graphs and charts, making it fair for people, unrigging the system and getting job creation, they have a sales effort to explain the benefits of this. it will be part of that, neil, absolutely. neil: gerri, three democrats did not sign this letter, this demand letter. joe manchin, heidi heitkamp and joe donnelly, all from states that went big for donald trump, and they're up for election next year. if they can vote with republicans that gives republicans more wiggle room, right? >> all due respect to everybody sitting here, i just don't see much happening. we're talking about ideas and what it means and who would

sign on, talk about the calendar for two seconds. 26 days of vacation for congress coming up. i might count if i have that right. we have to get a budget, raise the debt ceiling, you're telling me they're going to get all of this done? neil: the november senate vote doesn't look good to you? >> i don't see a lot happening. you talk about making it simpler, the post card. no way in heck that's happening. they don't have time to do all those things. neil: i don't know if it will be the big reform they wanted, tim, but the november delayed and the substantial tax cut, what if it's just a tax cut, a respectable one, corporate relief, but nothing that was so revolutionary big as thought? >> reform can bring the transformation for the economy. neil: you are absolutely right. >> and i understand there is a reason this hasn't been accomplished in a generation. neil: she's very cynical and jaded. >> we were a whole lot younger. >> she wasn't even born. >> they need to make a big

effort here. you don't have this opportunity very often. neil: republicans keep watching it. >> but the payoff of real tax reform versus only a tax cut is so much bigger for americans. neil: i agree, i don't know if they're going to do it. >> i don't think they're going to go that far because of the 61 votes for certain -- to get a certain amount. listen, i think they're going to settle for something they can get. >> lower tax reform, lower taxes on corporations. >> taxes down 20%. that's a big tax cut. that's a pretty substantial corporate tax cut, and it's reform in a way that people have been talking about for a long time. 20% take it mr. the effective rate of average of 27%, you're going to see. that will move markets. that will be a very big upside tick. >> it will do more than move markets, right? we want it to make the middle class wealthy. we want knockon affects that help everybody. >> you are right to challenge me on that.

here's why it. moves markets because it adds to corporate earnings, corporations expand and you start hiring people. that's the whole notion of corporate taxes. why you should cut taxes, not just because you see the stock market go up. when you get better corporate earnings. neil: let me bounce on the marginal rates, if the rich are left out of it. >> we would argue you have cuts across the board and not pick and choose individuals. if you get rid of the deductions like for example talking about getting rid of the state and local tax writeoff, that primarily helps the wealthy. neil: yesterday most households paying the top rate won't get a tax cut. >> again, lower the rate across the board, it does help unrig things. on the point of tax reform versus a tax cut. six of the last seven federal elections have been change elections, they want things to change and get the economy

going. that's why republicans ought to go big and a way for them to. >> suppose they get rid of the state and local tax deduction, they get rid of the carried interest deduction, close a lot of loopholes. they don't move the marginal rate on the stop, they maybe tinker with it in the middle, which will probably give you some moderate fiscal stimulus, but take down the corporate tax rate. think about that. rich people could be paying for the corporate tax cuts. >> no way you would get through the state and local deduction getting rid of that. not just democrats jumping up and down on that, but republicans, too. >> high tax states. >> new jersey and new york. >> the house republicans from california are open to that. >> you think it's going to get done? >> i think they're going to get something done. >> think about it. they're going to close the loophole and keep the upper rate where it is. that's insane. >> i hope they cut all the rates across the board. >> that is painful. >> that would be a massive,

massive tax inries on small businesses too that file as individuals. there's a lot of bad outcomes that could come here if you don't play this out right. they're tinkering too much. >> you and gerri are very cynical and snide. >> we talk to people in the marketplace and you hear the objections all the time. >> i talk to people in the real world. i'll be in indiana. neil: these guys are not in the real world. >> big change in washington, d.c. wall street gets the system unrigged. that's what they want. neil: guys, a lot more after this. the dow within 19 points of 22,000, if the markets are getting antsy, as i always say, they have a funny way of showing it. after this. we actually filed a claim with usaa to replace that spoiled food. and we really appreciated that we're the webber family and we are usaa members for life.

♪ ♪ neil: it does help to have a chief of staff who is, well, steeped and trained in a lot of foreign policy issues. remember, he was under defense secretary mattis in the first gulf war, and he brings --

[audio difficulty] adam shapiro live from the white house with the latest. >> reporter: and they're keeping an eye here at the white house in what's happening in venezuela and north korea. let's start with north korea. no new developments at the united nations after north korea had launched another ballistic missile, a successful test, we're told. but the white house is keeping an eye on that. and not too long ago sebastian gorka, an adviser to the president, said this about what the president is considering regarding north korea. >> we'd like people to understand that this is a flea, north korea is a stalinist regime, but it can't feed its own people. we are the united states of america. we're not even a superpower, we are a hyperpower, and we see this as blatant blackmail, blackmail of the western community, and we don't give in to blackmail. this president is not a man who should be blackmailed. >> reporter: now, this morning

senator lindsey graham appeared on nbc's "today" show, and said the president told him a military option would be on the table if north korea threatens the citizens of the united states. of course, the other issue that they're watching is venezuela, new sanctions placed not only on parts of the government, but on the dictator there, maduro, by the u.s. treasury department. back to you. neil: all right. adam, thank you very much. adam touched on this, but now this fear that venezuela is sort of dissolving into civil war. opposition leaders taken from their homes in the middle of the night. heritage foundation analyst and the victims of communism executive director, marian smith. marian, this is a whole other level of scary when you start seeing this kind of stuff. but with little regard for the pr fallout. what do you make of that? >> well, i think what we're

seeing is the live coup and unfolding crisis situation in venezuela where the regime of nicolas maduro, backed by the communist regime -- the castros in cuba who, by the way, have thousands of embedded military personnel in venezuela guiding some of the intelligence, secret misand military actions by -- police and military actions by the national guard there in venezuela. that's an underreported part of this story. we should call for the immediate withdrawal of all cuban military personnel from the territory of venezuela. but essentially, maduro has consolidated power. the illegal election that took place was the establishment of an extra-constitutional institution that's going to allow him to amend the constitution, outlaw opponents, political opponents. they've established truth commissions which are promising to be nothing more than sham trials of political opposition

leaders. and so what is happening in venezuela is akin to the erection of the berlin wall. and if we can stop it, we should. and we can. we're not talking about a power with nuclear capability here. there's really nothing that the cuban regime or the venezuelans can do to hurt u.s. national interests than they're already doing. but the venezuelan people don't even have a fighting chance with the maduro regime and the castros in cuba conspiring to take away their freedoms and their democratic institutions. neil: anna, what happens if we see more foreign power involvement, russia like we did with cuba during jfk's time? that this accelerates to that? >> well, i think we are going to continue to see more foreign power involvement. marion brought up a great point about the cuban government's role in venezuela and what's happening is you literally have an occupational force. it's close to 20,000 members,

20,000 cuban government officials guiding venezuela's intelligence services. it's even reported that the dictator, maduro, he only surrounds himself with cuban bodyguards. and i think that's where the it's going to make the situation potentially much, a little bit worse for the united states in terms of how we as the united states and how the international community addresses the venezuela crisis. and i can only see this situation getting much worse, because maduro has made a drastic power grab with this constitutional assembly, and last night's move of arresting, re-arresting two political opposition leaders sends quite the signal that he, that he's not going down without a fight. neil: well, and it also sends a signal, to your earlier point, marion, he isn't too concerned there's going to be any repercussion for this, right? >> well, i mean, what's happening here is clear, maduro and the failed socialist policies for two decades have left what was once one of the wealthiest countries in latin america a population that can't

even feed itself. the average venezuelan has lost some 19 pounds in the last year. basic medical supplies, basic food stuffs are missing from the country. and it's for that reason that maduro -- and for good reason -- believe that he's going to lose the general election that was scheduled for next october. and this is his attempt to consolidate power, take away the ability of the venezuelan people to choose a new leader. and so far, i mean, he has the full backing of the cuban regime which even the united states for now three years has had an uncertain line on. when you have, you know, bolivia, nicaragua and cuba supporting this a action by maduro and you have, frankly, a somewhat late response by western governments to condemn this, we have a long tradition of u.s. foreign policy protecting our national interests -- neil: but i would worry about the neighborhood, you know? anna, real quickly, colombia comes to mind. anna?

do you worry about colombia? >> yep, sorry. well, no, i'm -- you know, i think colombia recognizes -- colombia shares a border with venezuela, and i think they recognize they have to step up, and they are stepping up. in the latin america alone 11 countries have stepped up and said that they will are not recognize the illegal constituent assembly. and i think the outlier in all of this and i think the decisive factor is president trump and his administration. i mean, we're seeing a significant and positive shift away from president obama's failed strategic patience doctrine where since trump has been in office, in a little over six months he has sanctioned over two dozen venezuelan government officials, over two dozen of them. all of their assets in the united states have been seized by u.s. authorities. they are no longer allowed to travel to the united states. the vice president has been sanctioned as a drug kingpin. over half a billion of his assets, of his illicit assets have been seized in america.

that's close to $600 million heed had in this country, so it's quite significant. neil: guys, thank you both very, very much. a reminder, we mentioned the white house. there is a planned briefing, on-camera briefing about 20 minutes from now. we'll keep you posted. the dow in and out of a number that gets tantalizingly close to 22,000. more after this.

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neil: you know, i know, bob, there's a real interest and respect for earnings, as it should be. and the earnings have been off the charts. in the end, that continue to drive this -- will that continue to drive this market even if tax cuts don't materialize? >> earlier i wouldn't necessarily say so. it's possible now. i mean, the market's been pretty good at ignoring bad news, as you just pointed out. in fact, earnings report in 2015 and even parts of '16, they didn't really care too much. it's good at ignoring bad news. it could continue to do that. but when you come to white house chaos, obama care's one thing, but i think raising the debt ceiling might be a different issue. neil: in other words, if they don't do that or it causes log jams like we've seen in the past, all bets are off? is that what you're saying? >> i would say so. i think it's, again, market can overlook bad news to a point, but we'll have to see here. neil: heather, across the board sectors have dutifully gone up and down.

when tech lost its wind, you know, financials came to the fore. but we, this is something that shows the strength of a bull market, when something like that happens. >> uh-huh. neil: what underpinnings are you looking at that do worry you though? >> i think, well, that worry me, the debt ceiling debacle if we come to a resolution and the government does not shut down -- although that would help my morning commute down here in d.c -- the selloff in the markets during any of these debt ceiling debates seems to be short lived. now, bob may have some other evidence pointing to a further downdraft in the market versus a one-day pullback, but perhaps his selling would be someone else's buying. i mean, sign me up. the market has just kept heading higher. every dip in the market has been bought since february of 2016 since we declined 11%. so we'll get a pullback, it's just a matter of when that timing is going to happen. neil: you know, bob, alan greenspan in an interview, i

think with bloomberg, talk about a bubble in bonds and that these low interest rates, they're unnaturally are low, severely so. and that's his big worry. is it yours? >> yeah. of course, he's a federal reserve chairman, that should be his big worry. he was federal reserve chairman. and i think there is some issue there. but i think there is still -- let's look at stocks. between 1950 and 1982, stocks went nowhere. that's 30 years of a period of enormous growth and enormous infrastructure technology change. you collected dividends, but that was basically it. but between 1982 and today we're up about 1,000%. again, i don't know if heather's right -- [laughter] boy, we're going to blow or something's going to go wrong here, but i've got to ask heather, why this massive increase in valuation during a period when economic growth hasn't been -- >> well. neil: or you could average it out for all of those decades. >> the economic growth has been

slow, but we just got a gdp print of 2.6% which is somewhat helping. the fundamentals of the market, i think, have something to do with driving valuations higher being that earnings growth is up 12.5%. but i get your point is that somewhere in the future earnings have to keep going up and up and up the sustain these valuations. but we're no 40 where near -- nowhere near the tech bubble of 2001 when it burst 2,000 levels. >> why did we not go anywhere from 1950 to 1982? you know, just dividends. so it's a very different valuation -- neil: we're way too young to remember that. [laughter] >> so true. >> i am. neil: i'll continue lying right after this. the latest on hackers hitting some very popular hbo shows and maybe more. after this. ♪ ♪ horseheadswivellychair.com

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neil: all right, well, your favorite hbo shows, sooner than you think. another major hack attack, and this time this is hbo. hillary vaughn has the latest. hillary. >> reporter: hey, neil. well, these hackers reportedly leaked some episodes online from

two hbo shows, room 104 and ballers, but here's the biggest bombshell from the breach. hackers claim to have some data, possibly a script with spoilers, from the next episode of game of thrones, set to air sunday. hbo has confirmed the hack saying in this part: hbo recently experienced a cyber incident which resulted in the compromise of proprietary information. we immediately been investigating the incident and are working with law enforcement. hbo's ceo broke the news to employees yesterday saying in an e-mail: any intrusion of this nature is obviously disruptive, unsettling and disturbing more all of us. hbo won't say if game of thrones materialing was stolen in a cyber attack, but we do know it's a big target because game of thrones is the highest rated show on cable right now. 12.7 million people tuned in the season seven premiere with at least 6 million more people watching on their streaming platforms.

the franchise is such a big draw for viewers that even cord cutters will pay for hbo's stand-alone service, hbo now, to tune in. according to the app analytics firm. andrea:ny, hbo was downloaded half a million times after the season seven premiere, and they saw revenues triple. hbo has dealt with third party leak ares before, but this is the first time the company has actually been the victim of a cyber attack. neil. neil: thank you, hillary vaughn, very, very much. all right, that white house briefing now about seven minutes away. we'll take you there. also keeping an eye on the dow, about 23 points away from 22,000. one of the quicker jumps from the 1,000-point level to another. this would just be a couple of months. more after this. ♪ ♪ potsch: you each drive a ford pickup, right?

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neil: you know, we're about 2/3, 3/4 through earnings season. apple is most scrutinized of thousands of companies that release quarterly reports. apple will be doing so after the closing bell today. connell mcshane with a bit of a preview. connell. reporter: interesting when apple reports for a number of reasons, particularly this quarter, iphone 8 and what will be part of that. let's build up to it this way. first of all the stock. it has run up to $149 and the

gains year-to-date are 29%. go back 52 weeks it is more than that, neighborhood of 48%. it has been down about 3% last three sessions until the small gains today. when we watch numbers come in after the bell tonight, earnings and revenue we normally look at will be important, how many iphones they sold last quarter. guidance for the next quarter. one we're currently in, that is what everybody is focused on. as an example, number to keep back of your head, wall street expectations in this quarter when they report it in the fall, sales of $49 billion, right? there have been all the reports written, speculation out there, maybe this new fancy iphone will be delayed. if it is, you think that number will probably be, when they give us guidance is lower than 49 billion. say it is 511 billion, that is probably a good sign for apple that things are really on time. ceo tim cook and his comment

looked back upon, newly scrutinized as well, he spoke back in may. he basically said something that, you know, in retrospect, given everything we know about apple, anticipate something rather obvious. the said anticipation of a new phone, iphone 8 may be hurting sales of curt one. -- current one. maybe people are not as excited about this report tonight. that would make sense. you're not buying a new phone now if you wait, see what the iphone 8 is all about. even if it cost $1000 whatever people are saying, they will wait until then. that might hurt result this is quarter. we'll see after the bell. neil: do you know, connell, whether they telegraph what the price range will be? some have iphone 8 as much as 1400 bucks? reporter: maybe on the call a little bit in terms of how cook answers questions. i don't know. i think we'll do a lot of tea leaf reading. if they were higher everything

is on plan and they will come out on time which obviously is always the big deal. it gets in at end of that september quarter which is their fiscal fourth quarter. price, you're right. that is the big thing. it really going to be 13, 1400 bucks, if so will people pay for it after watching apple so 78 years, seems like answer will be yes on both of those. it will be a lot of money for a phone. neil: do they pay much attention on the floor as we do, 1000 point jumps when we get to 22,000 today? >> does it look like it, neil? neil: no. >> i don't come down hear that much, when you come down here you get an grossed for markets today, not only do they not pay attention to that but not focused on politics. neil: can clearly cut the tension with a knife. thank you for bringing drama to us. >> big guns were called in today. neil: connell mcshane at new york stock exchange.

dow at 21,973, regardless at a record, comfortably so, the question whether we get over 22,000. lauren simonetti in for trish regan to see if that happens. >> we came in 10 points of breaking2,000. white house press secretary sarah huckabee sanders will be here any minute from now. the s&p is up 6 points. i'm lauren simonetti. i'm in for trish regan. welcome to "the intelligence report." we begin with a tweet from president trump. saying this, stock market could head all-time high again. 22,000 today, with 18,000 six months ago on election day.