stuart: you know what would be bigger? judge napolitano to be head of the federal reserve. not going to happen. [laughter] we are dead flat at the moment, right at 22,015, and my time is up. neil, sir, it's yours. neil all right, stuart, thank you very much. we are following up on what is coming tonight from the president of the united states. we know he's going to be in west virginia, and he is going to have a big announcement. we have no idea what that could be. it could be a lot of drama ahead of the fact sometimes these things aren't that big a deal. but we do know all eyes are focused on washington and what, if anything, gets done in the precious few weeks and months ahead of everyone wanting to see at least a tax cut. the senate is going to be out of town despite promises of working through mid august, a lot of them are gone, little opportunity to do anything in the next couple of weeks. so are they blowing it? gop fundraiser noel -- and a.b. stoddard, ned ryan. no well, leaving town.

i thought they had a lot to do. [laughter] >> they do have a lot to do, and i think you're going to see -- [laughter] trump, we were talking about this earlier, trump's base totally solid. don't need to worry about that because they're going to look at trump and say, look are, it's not your fault. congress, do-nothing congress, senate -- neil: that appears to be a shrinking part of the public. >> if you like trump, it doesn't matter what he does. like he said, he could go into the street and shoot someone, he has a very solid core base. neil: i'm sure some of them might peel off. [laughter] >> why do you take me literally? you know, if you're looking at people who when he took office said he'd be more presidential, we had hopes of this because he appointed some really great people. steve mnuchin, gary cohn, wilbur ross. but if you look at the constant tweeting, you know, i'm going to do this -- not, you know? things like that that are driving people nuts, i think you're going to see a lot of

people say why do i need to be loyal? why do i need to still have hope for this? look what's going on with sessions and what he said about sessions. neil: well, you know, a.b. stoddard, the one thing i do notice is that he could look at the senate and say, what the heck? you guys said you were going to be here over the first couple of weeks of break, and you're not. maybe it's because of the failure of that skinny repeal, but they have other things to do. there's a budget to consider, keeping the government lights on past september to consider. what happened to that? >> neil, i just think it's appalling that the congress is trying to leave. there are about 12-15 legislative days left, i believe, before the end of the fiscal year. they have to raise the debt ceiling, they have to pass a government funding bill, they have to reauthorize children's health insurance and a flood program, and they have to get rid of -- if they want to increase military spending -- the sequester caps from the budget control act -- there's no plan on the table. neil: who came up with the idea,

all right, we're going to leave town? who came up with that idea? >> well -- [laughter] i'm going to blame the leadership since they draw up the calendar. i don't know who else to put the blame on. neil: yeah. ned, it dust surprises me, because the if you commit to staying there and i understand part of that thinking was they're going to pass that skin think repeal, and they'll have a reason to stay. but there's still a lot of other stuff they can easily be doing and probably shop doing, and they're not. >> minor things like tax reform, neil. and tests amazing to me -- and it's amazing, trump's not on the ballot next year. all the house members are. senators are on the ballot -- neil: very good point. >> the thing that's amazing is they're going to have to get tax reform at a minimum. and at this point i'm not looking at even comprehensive tax reform, i'm looking at getting something done in terms of the corporate tax -- neil: i don't think it'll be reform. cuts might not be across the board. i think it's getting whittlinged down as we speak.

>> i guarantee that something has to be done by the end of the year in regards to tax reform if they're going to give themselves a chance, the republicans, on the midterms. at the end of the day, the base is with trump x the midterms are a base election. if they want the base to turn out, they're going to have to pass at least one or two items in trump's agenda, and i think he's going to have to pull them down there, you need to pass one of two of these items. if you like being leadership, paul ryan and mitch mcconnell, you're going to do some of these things and, hopefully, that'll light a fire under them. neil: i see a lot of cat fighting within the party between each other. i want to pick your brains and, noel, i'll start with you. chief of staff, you know, john kelly has been in that job since the beginning of the week. and, you know, there has been a little bit more calm. yesterday's white house briefing notwithstanding. and assurances, apparently,

coming from kelly that jeff sessions, your job is safe for now. what'd you make of that? >> you know what? i believe him. and i'll tell you another thing. this proves the theory, i thought i wonder if kelly took this position with trump to be the chief of staff on conditions. i didn't think -- neil: like keeping sessions? >> well, many concessions. meaning this is the way i want to run it, this is the way i see it. i'm very organized, and this is what i need the flow to do this, this, this. if you do not think that you can do this, i'm not the man for you. i really believe that he had a conditional contract with this. this is why you're seeing a lot of things shaping up and whipping into place. i believe when he says to sessions, you're all right. i do. neil: wow. and is that coming from the president as well? >> this is coming from kelly. neil: the president's honoring it. >> look, kellyanne conway said, you know, i saw the door to the oval office shut, we are trying

to respect kelly's wishes. they're wanting to the conform -- neil: well, the question may be, right, for how long, right? kelly clearly is getting his way, it would seem. you're better at this than i am. how long do you think that lasts? >> well, i don't know. the thing is if there's a full house clearing and kelly gets rid of everyone who's fighting with everyone and it's all a unified team, that could work for quite a while if trump really wants it. he, as we know, is impulsive, and he doubles down and doesn't want to be told what to do. so he'll listen for a while, but ultimately he does get very frustrated when people try to, quote, you know, baby sit him. it makes him very frustrated -- neil: but he does have respect for military guys, a perm fondness for general kelly -- >> that's right. neil: -- and that could make a difference, right, ned? >> no, i think he respects generals and businessmen. and i think the king kelly's going to have to do is strike that balance between, listen, at

some level trump's going to be trump. at the same time, trump has realized there needs to be more discipline. what i've said is the campaign agenda, service the winning agenda -- it was the winning agenda, let's focus on pushing this forward. i think kelly realizes trump's going to be trump, but if he can bring some discipline, focus and order, i could see this working out very, very well. neil: a.b., i wanted to get your thoughts on the president back to tweeting today, largely on message. they're not errant tweets, but referring to the markets again and these records. but holding out in a tweet, if we have these tweets, guys, the possibility that other factors could influence this down the road. in other words, someone with seems to be telling him there is a possibility that marrying yourself to markets on the upside can boomerang when they go on the downside. but your take on him embracing these markets. and it would make sense, any president would love them when they're up, not so much when

they're down. what do you think of all that? >> right. we're not surprised that this is good news and a good marker, and he is going to take credit for that. he did warn about bubbles and what comes up coming down on wall street. certainly, many times during the campaign. so i think if it tumbles down in the other direction at some point, he's going to, he's going to say i predicted this as well. but, remember, you know, the markets are ignoring politics for now. we just hope that they continue to do that in september when i mentioned all those budget deadlines that are looming. neil: right. what do you think, any one of those events hasn't happened, like a debt ceiling nightmare. every time that happens, this and around it the markets tank. and then they stabilize. what happens? >> well, i mean, you know, right now he's taking credit for a good market, rightfully so. because the market's dependent on -- neil: well, he'd certainly get the blame if it was down.

>> job creation, a relatively low gdp, interest rates that are low even though the fed's wanting to slowly hike those up and decent corporate earnings. so we can see the reasoning behind a good market up. but as far as going down, this could be bad with north korea any day looming over, you know, things like that. and d.c. gridlock. and a lot of the times with corporate earnings they're not getting the same pop in the market, you know, as they used to. neil: well, there is -- no, you know, ned, one of the things that happens with markets that run up, especially don't correct as this long bull market largely has not over these many years is that they don't defy the laws of gravity forever. >> right. neil: now, there are a lot of factors certainly going this market's way. you know, to nicole's point, stable interest rates, stable growth, not gangbuster, respectable growth, very good earnings, lean balance sheets. corporate america poised to continue this. there is always the possibility of outside events, but that also

feeds off this perception people have when they look at their 401(k), their statements, they feel richer. and the argument is they spend that, you know? if this reverses, it could reverse on the economy as well. hasn't yet, no indication that it will -- >> right. neil: what then? >> first of all, i want to address a couple things. first of all, trump should claim credit. when he had the freedom and ability and not had to work with congress, he's rolled back almost 1,000 regulations since he was put into office. so i think he should claim credit. and with regards to the debt ceiling fiasco or not, when you see mark meadows, leader of the freedom caucus, saying we're going to be raising that, you know that's a signal there's probably not going to be a whole lot of drama in september -- neil: yeah, but he also said he was open to attaching provisos to that. >> yeah. >> i don't think it's going to be nearly the drama -- neil: i hope you're right. drama or not --

>> they don't want to be distracted. they understand they have to get tax reform. mark meadows even said we have to get tax reform done by thanksgiving -- neil: no, that's a good point. a.b., meadows also said we're going to get a corporate rate that's going to be below 20%. i'm paraphrasing. what was the term he used actually? with a one in front of it, which would imply either as low as 15% as the administration wants to go or no higher than 19. what did you make of that? there's been all sort of talk that they were going to find a middle ground, maybe 20, 25%. but it seems like republicans don't -- especially on the conservative side -- want to dave on that. >> you know, i've heard from republicans for many months quietly it was going to be 25, and they knew that. they knew the border adjustment -- neil: really, 25? because they talk about that, a.b -- >> yeah. they've just conceded that publicly, but i've heard this in the spring.

they knew all along that we were looking without the bat at something -- neil: well, that would be, that would be -- >> you know what? if the freedom caucus wants to fight for their fiscal rectitude for a paid-for, permanent tax cut, that's going to be a different story. they're looking at deficits on a tax cut. things are different now. they're not going to get what they want, they're going to get what they can. >> i would agree with that. i think they're shooting for 15 and, actually, conservatives on the hill would be, all right, if we get 20 -- neil: i don't know, if it's 25 -- and i think a.b.'s probably closer the right on this, but 25 is close to what companies are paying now on average. it's not the broadcast rate of -- >> but as part of these negotiations, don't come out with a high number. start at 15. you know it's going to go up -- neil: i say no higher than 16. that's my opening bid. >> i'm with you, neil. >> this is so depressing because i can't believe with a republican house and senate and presidency that we are even talking about --

neil: i do, because i think that the way this goes -- >> unfortunately, i do too. neil: what do you mean, unfortunately that a.b.'s right? >> no -- sorry, a.b. [laughter] neil: trying to the start something here. >> thanks, neil. neil: sorry. she's right. >> that is so depressing. we should have had tax reform done, check. repeal and replace, check. we should be flying through the night, passing, checking, doing -- neil: we're not going to have it. a.b., that's my prediction, we're not going to get it this year. >> oh, that's depressing. >> that is a real possibility. >> we have 33 republican governments, 70 of the 99 state legislatures -- neil: you're right on all counts. >> republicans still seem to have the inability to to govern. they want to shoot themselves in both feet. so my hope is that they come back, come back from their break, come back in september and go we're going to pass one of these pieces of legislation, we have to for our own self-preservation.

and at the end of the day, politicians are experts in self-preservation. i hope that starts kicking in -- neil: i used to think that. sometimes they forget the preservation thing. guys, thank you all very much. the dow throughout all of this, this is how effective my panelists were, they didn't even budge the dow. their scary, mixed with reassuring words kept the dow exactly where it was when this hour started. that, that is stature, my friends. meanwhile, the media freakout over the president's immigration plan, is it justified? we started picking it apart. no, it is not. after this. ♪ rethink what's possible. rethink your allergy pills. flonase sensimist allergy relief

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right in well, i call him mr. elegant, that was such a great debate, we did such a great job. is he referencing the fox business network debate with "the wall street journal" on november 10, 2015, when he told me this in the spin room? finish. >> we had three very talented people up there asking questions, and, you know, i said somebody just asked me how was it, i said it was very elegant. you did a very elegant job, the three of you, great job. >> thank you very much. neil: or this after the south carolina debate that we did in january 2016. donald trump, thank you very much. >> take care of yourself. neil: good seeing you again. we were elegant last time -- >> i think you were very elegant. you did a great job. neil: donald trump, the front-runner in this race. all right, now, a couple of things we can eliminate here that it's not gerard baker because he's telling gerard baker of the "wall street journal" -- who is, by the way, extremely elegant -- he's referring to this mr. elegant.

so then it can't be maria bartiromo because she's a woman and just phenomenal, very elegant in her own right but not mister elegant. so, again, we went sort of all this crosses-referenced and, yes, america, you are looking at -- [laughter] mr. elegant. you are welcome. [laughter] reaction now from not mr. elegant -- >> i thought you were talking about me! neil: -- charlie gasparino. >> what was he talking about, mr. elegant? what was the context? neil: i have no idea. fixated on me. i have that effect. >> no. when he was talking about the offshore min -- neil: i don't know, i was paying attention to me. >> okay. neil: are you surprised that the search is over? >> of course. i thought it was me. either you or charlie brady. do you know charlie brady? or steve lieb -- neil: sort of a wildcard choice there. [laughter] what'd you make of that? >> i don't understand the context. i -- neil: quit focusing on the context. obviously, my questions on

offshore money got his attention, and rather than call me mr. cavuto or neil or neilster or the italian stallion -- [laughter] >> or mr. latte? neil: or mr. latte. [laughter] but in that venue, from -- mr. elegant. >> you are an elegant guy. look at a tie. neil: done. you are not. no tie. >> i've got one of these things. neil: you're dragging our people down. [laughter] so the mystery is solved for you, i am mr. elegant. you're not really surprised. >> well, you know, i've always thought you're an el quantity guy despite your penchant and i would say fetish for pumpkin spice lattes and thad steakhouse. other than that, you take those two things out and maybe -- i don't want to say it. neil: well, if you could pass it along to your friends, because i was reading this in "the washington post." love "the washington post" -- >> right. neil: -- but they go through 58

names. i mean, i can understand anderson cooper, splendid and all the rest -- >> steve bannon, was he on the list? neil: no, he was not. [laughter] john harwood at cnbc -- >> have you seen john harwood's hair? it's perfect. neil: i have not. my point is they went through all these names, and no one thought, oh, neil cavuto. i think there's an fbn bias. >> how about joe kernan, did they mention him? neil: they did not among the 58 names i saw. i think we at fbn have to let the world know that grudging as it is for the media world to accept the force that we are, i think it's safe to say we are a force. you came here when we weren't a force. >> listen, i came here when we were like, you know, we were throwing -- we were like the israeli army in the first war. we were throwing, like, molotov cocktails -- neil: right. not elegant. >> we still won though. neil: yeah. but i think that shows you a

little bit of a bias, not to even think of any, you know? >> well, it shows a bias, neil, because our debate was hands down better than cnbc's debate, it was probably -- if you talk to not just donald because he thinks he won, donald will say we were great no matter what. but if you talk to some of the other people there who i got to mingle with some of the candidates when i was at the debates, they thought it was the most substantive debates, of the debate. i mean, we stuck with economic issues, we didn't get into personalities. neil: exactly. >> we did not ask chris christie about -- stupid questions. neil: you see the three people there, he is part of "the wall street journal." so that focus on -- >> he's kind of elegant. look at him. neil: very elegant. >> for a bald guy. neil: i would have thought of him right way. and brilliant, by the way. so i'm looking at him and thinking we spent a lot of time talking about outsourcing in that debate, a lot about taxes abroad. it can't be maria although she's

beyond elegant. >> no, it's maria. he got mister with -- maria is classing up -- neil: maria's the classy person, i grant you, but throw me a bone. >> no. neil: nothing? is. [laughter] >> he was talking about maria, he got mr. mixed up with mrs. . i'm telling you, it's you and gerard baker versus maria bartiromo? dude -- [laughter] neil: i think you're jealous to. >> i'm just saying, maria bartiromo, gerard baker, maria bartiromo, neil cavuto. elegance. think about it. [laughter] i'm giving you -- listen, you want fact or fantasy? i'm helping you through this. neil: are you hearing this? [laughter] >> i'm helping you through this. by the way -- it'll be my last performance on cavuto -- neil: that's true. >> i'm here to help you work through this. maria, you. gerard, maria. neil: really?

>> it ain't happening, dude. neil: really? >> it ain't -- i'm telling you. trump got mr. mixed up with mrs.-- neil: of my stinking mind here -- >> you are elegant, the tie is great -- neil: just not as elegant. >> i was only kidding. i do your show. [laughter] neil: that's it. all right, if you see this again and you see "the washington post" or these others do this, hello, throw me a bone here, all right? cavuto, the area, the pumpkin -- neil: i'm hearing the producer, we've got to go to break! the decidedly not elegant ralph. >> all the underwear -- neil: look at the time. there we go! [laughter] i can't even tell you what we have next.ve just that we have something. after this. >> we lost them. but at home. she thinks she's the boss. she only had me by one grade. we bought our first home together in 2010. his family had used another insurance product

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people from great britain and australia? >> i can honestly say i am shocked at your statement, that you think that only people from great britain and australia would know english. it's actually, it reveals your cosmopolitan bias to a shocking degree that in your mind -- no, this is an amazing, this is an amazing moment. neil: not exactly very elegant. if you know what i mean. media reaction to the white house immigration plan. some of these requirements were in place about a century ago. to hedge fund manager jonathan hoenig and rich lowry on whether a merit-based system would work. rich, with you it does work, has worked in other countries, including australia and canada. what did you think of this back and forth? >> yeah. we are one of the few advanced countries that does it this way, lets people in, their el relatives -- their relatives in with very little thought of what

makes sense for our 21st century economy, and i thought miller was exceptionally good against acosta. it was good to see two advocates -- miller's actually paid to be an advocate, acosta's paid to supposedly be objective, something he fails at. but you look at india, there are 125 million people who speak english in india. if the idea is english is only in britain and australia is nonsense. neil: you know, again, all the charges of racism and gerrymandering here, but jonathan, the end result is other countries have in place a system where those who want to get into their countries legally have to be beneficial or seen to be beneficial to the country they're going to, right? >> well, this plan, neil, cuts legal immigration. i mean, that -- and so it's not even a question of curtailing so-called illegal immigration, that is the expressed goal here, is to cut illegal immigration.

and i think it's their version, neil, the gop's version of the command-control economy, right? they want to keep people working, i don't know, it's not on the farm anymore and in the fields or what not, they want to keep the proletariat working, in fact, steven miller talked about wages and restricting legal productive immigration -- neil: we'll still be averaging a million immigrants coming into this country either through visas or green cards which is more than any other country on earth. >> based on steve miller's criteria. so what is going to be that merit, neil? neil: you'd rather keep it open-ended, no limits, no provisos, nothing? >> well, it's always a red herring, neil. i mean, the right says they have a problem with entitlements, and that's why they're against immigration. so why not tackle the entitlements? you talked about a generation or a hundred years ago, neil, none of these into it9 elements that

the immigrants supposedly come here for were in place a hundred years ago. it's always about entitlements -- neil: i could flip it around and say the left is all about trying to keep this to be some sort of a human and humane kind of story. i look at it again, rich, as do we want to know what benefit we as a country get of the people who come here to help them, help us, all works out. >> right. i'd love to eliminate all, eliminate the entitlement state as exists. that's a fantasy. it's never going to happen. >> no not with donald trump. >> what's happening now is you have a flood of low-skilled immigrants who are at the margins at least suppressing the wages of workers who are already here. so why are we doing that? let's instead cut back a little bit and emphasize skill and higher-end -- neil: what if on the higher-end, to jonathan's point, you have a lot of citizens in this country with engineering or advanced degrees, a lot of these tech

companies want those jobs to go to lower paid foreigners who come into this country? they have the same skill set, but they don't have to pay them as much. >> well, i think sort of the temporary visas are a bad idea, because it allows companies to basically have their hooks into those workers who don't have a lot of other options and to undercut american workers. but, look, there is a small economic benefit to immigration, and what happens is you suppress the wages of people further down the income scale. that's good for consumers, for capital, and some of that benefit is redistributed upwards. but it might be wiped out from the fiscal cost of lower -- >> well, let's -- >> -- education, health care, welfare and all the rest of it. >> let's -- i think we should just have everyone back on the farm. let's get rid of -- >> that's a non sequitur. >> 100% -- >> i don't understand what the point is. >> the point is that the immigrants that you criticize people for pushing down wages, they are productive. you can get a job in this

countrying with -- country being a full-time greeter because of immigrant labor. it's just patently false, in fact, the more immigration, the more beneficial to this country -- neil: jonathan, wouldn't you look for skill sets that could not only help this country, but also advance those trying to get to this country? what's wrong with being a little selective so it could be a win-win? that's kind of what this approach is. >> who selects, neil? i think that's the whole point. >> someone has to select. unless you can have totally open borders, you have to select. we're selecting. now, there's a much greater demand to come to the united states of america than we are fulfilling, so by your standards, you're a terrible restrictionist who's preventing people from realizing the great economic gains they could have here. we could let ten million people come -- >> why don't we? >> yeah, will you go. >> why don't we? >> because there'd be an enormous economic and cultural dislocation -- [inaudible conversations] neil: guy,s, if you can refresh

my memory, the catalyst was the tech ceos who said we don't have enough american-born engineers, math mattics majors and that type of expertise, that's why we rely on those from india, some other countries, that's the way we want to go, and this was the genesis for that. >> well, neil, i don't know the if it, i don't know if it's tech entrepreneurs or whether it's anyone else, but the fact of the matter is -- neil: these tech companies say they can't find these people. >> well, and there's a benefit for them for hiring foreign people, neil. there's no such thing as a right to a job. and to be honest, if an american -- neil: but the only way they can afford them is if they get their green cards or -- >> so i agree with our guest. i agree with our guest. let's have ten million immigrants to this country -- >> well, there you go. there's no support for that. no one would ever vote for that, that's a libertarian -- [inaudible conversations]

>> certainly not from the president. why doesn't he address the entitlement state? >> you should agree if there's more labor supply, wages are going to go down. so you're advocating a policy that reduces wages of lower income people in this country for some small economic benefit -- >> you know what? they get better jobs. they get better jobs. that's your whole point. >> no. their wages are suppressed. >> working on the farms. >> no -- [inaudible conversations] >> what are you talking about, working on the farms? >> because by this -- >> you have people in all sector, construction and other things where you have lower skilled workers who have to compete with immigrants who are importedded from overseas that t we choose to import -- neil: guy, i wish i had more time, and i do want to extend this another time. we don't have to worry too much, i know you're concerned, jonathan, because the likelihood of passage -- >> it's just for the base. red meat for the base. neil: okay. we'll have more after this. perty

is that you can create wealth through capital appreciation, and this has been denied to many south africans for generations. this is an opportunity to right that wrong. the idea was to bring capital into the affordable housing space in south africa, with a fund that offers families of modest income safe and good accommodation. citi® got involved very early on, and showed an enormous commitment. and that gave other investors confidence. citi's really unique, because they bring deep understanding of what's happening in africa. i really believe we only live once, and so you need to take an idea that you have and go for it. you have the opportunity to say, "i've been part of the creation of over 27,000 units of housing," and to replicate this across the entire african continent.

neil: all right, there's a back and forth about robert mueller and whether he is compromised. arizona congressman trent franks says he is, that he's too close and too connected and has a reason for saying, neil, he's got to resign. take a look. where is the exact conflict that bothers you the most? >> certainly, one of the main investigations was a conversation between mr. comey and the president. and mr. comey and mr. mueller are very good friends, and the more you look at it, the closer that friendship appears to be. and consequently, i just don't see how mr. mueller can be a, you know, an unbiased arbiter between those two perspectives when his perspective on which one is telling the truth has a major impulse for the whole investigation. neil: should a new special counsel be appointed then? >> well, i was very much against a special counsel in the very first place because i thought

this was clearly a fishing expedition. if you look at some of the conduct of the clintons and even the obama administration, it seemed like there's such a dual approach here. and i just find it astonishing that we couldn't find a special counsel for some of these other things when there was such an abundance of information, and yet for this we do? neil: all right. so let's say the congressman gets what he wants. very, very unlikely bob mueller leaves. should he be replaced, and if he is, with whom? fox news channel anchor and legal eagle gregg jarrett. what do you do? >> replace him with somebody who is fair and impartial and not riddled with a conflict of interest. neil: where's the conflict? >> well, the conflict is the personal relationship that comey and mueller have. i mean, the literature is littered with stories about their long friendship, partners, allies, friends.

even the day mueller was appointed, "the washington post" did a story about it titled brothers in arms: the long relationship between mueller and comey. washingtonian magazine did a lengthy profile of how close the two men are. all you have to do is google -- neil: so they're that close, and mueller would feel offended by the president treated comey, he would, by that definition, be going after revenge. >> yeah, retaliation. neil: nothing in mueller's past hints at that type of thing. >> he's scrupulously honest, but even honest people can be unduly influenced in ways they don't understand which is precisely why the special counsel statute specifically says if you have a personal relationship with somebody substantially involved in the case -- that would be comey -- you shall recuse yourself. it's not discretionary -- neil: ken starr is very impressed with mueller and the team he's developed, and he was the big old clinton prosecutor.

>> yeah, well, look at the team that has been put together so far by mueller, most of them democrats, big democratic donors. the latest, greg andrews yesterday, was shocking. his wife's a federal judging appointed by obama. if there was any question about the partiality of mueller, this could erase any doubt about it. he is partial. neil: well, are you concerned given the fact the president has said some pretty tough things about mueller and his concerns about medical schooler that even -- mueller that even subliminally he would go after, for example, donald trump's business dealings? >> exactly. look, he's already violated the express directive, his mission statement when he was hired -- neil: don't they all do that, gregg? >> they do and they shouldn't, which is why everybody likes a special counsel til they get one, and they go rogue. neil: they go on for a long time. >> oh, sure. ken starr went on for four years. neil: iran contra for seven? how long do you think this goes

on? >> more than a year unless mueller is replaced with somebody who is fair and impartial. even the appearance of impropriety makes americans lose confidence in our to system of justice. neil: what if the president tried to fire either working through somebody he appoints or whatever, that would be craze -- crazy, right? >> it would be destructive for the president to do that. look -- neil: far past that point. >> there is something that the president could do, you know? he could put somebody else in charge as acting attorney general over in this particular -- like rachel brand number three. neil: right. >> because rod rosenstein is also compromised. he too is a witness -- neil: and rod rosenstein brought him in. >> yeah. neil: okay. >> if you put in a rachel brand, for example, to oversee the mueller investigation, she could rein him in. neil: okay. all right, gregg, thank you very, very much. in the meantime, we've had a billionaire become president, now another one who apparently

is seriously considering doing just that. mr. facebook, mark zuckerberg. yeah. after this. ♪ we check our phones 85 times a day.

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your insurance on time. tap one little bumper, and up go your rates. what good is having insurance if you get punished for using it? news flash: nobody's perfect. for drivers with accident forgiveness, liberty mutual won't raise your rates due to your first accident. switch and you could save $782 on home and auto insurance. call for a free quote today. liberty stands with you™ liberty mutual insurance. neil: all right, elon musk is on fire and so, too, his new plans for tesla.

hillary vaughn on that and his hyperloop, the whole thing. hillary? reporter: neil, hyperloop one just completed their first successful passenger pod test, and mow they're ready to -- and now they're ready to build. this test is a big deal because it proves that their technology works, and that means they could be breaking ground on a project in the u.s. as early as next year. the company leading the charge to deliver passengers from point a to point b at super speed says they've accomplished their goal in record time. the hyperloop technology was created here in the u.s., it's also been manufactured here. now hyperloop one is deciding where to built it, and states like colorado, f/x, florida, ohio are all on a campaign to convince hugh loop one that their -- hyperloop one is the right fit. >> we're looking at autoof those and beginning a deeper discussion as to where could we build the financial case, where is there a right-of-way that makes sense and where could we

start building here in the united states. >> reporter: the hyperloop can transport people or cargo, the first big step could be for freight first, getting semis off the road and clearing up traffic. hyperloop says they are the future of transportation, but with the pods topping speeds of 760 miles per hour, they're going to need to convince people , not just cargo, to go for a ride. neil. neil: yeah, that does look a little scary. hillary, thank you very much. hillary vaughn. meanwhile, if you have any doubts that mark zuckerberg just might be considering a political future, he just hired hillary clinton's former chief strategist, joel bennettson. to the katie fraits. i don't know, this is beginning to percolate into something. what's going on here, katie? >> right. well, who knows if it's the wink-wink, nudge-nudge, a tease here. maybe it is him saying that down the line he might consider running for something. at the same time, maybe it's

just his foundation hiring bennettson to do research work. but it could also be that 2017 is the start of the celeb-etition era. people like mark zuckerberg or to kid rock or donald trump who have conquered their respective mediums of social media or music or business, and they're looking for something else to do in their life, that next step. and they see donald trump and him conquering the presidency and saying, well, maybe i'll take a stab at politics too. neil: you know, and i think in this environment where if anything could happen, a guy with no elected experience, a lot of money, a powerful message and he gets to the white house, that others are contemplating that as well. >> right. neil: zuckerberg has an obscene amount of money, he could do what michael bloomberg did in new york, he was himself considering a potential presidential run. he just said i think it would be an uphill battle to do it, so he skipped out on that.

but it is conceivable that a guy with a lot of money and owing allegiance to no one in particular could make a shot. >> right. and that's not necessarily good news for democrats or republicans. if you have a zuckerberg or a trump who doesn't need to rely on their money, like you said, they have obscene amounts of money themselves, then democrats and republicans will hold no sway if they do decide to run and perhaps win. so i think maybe that's going to make them a little bit nervous. but i think it's interesting. i don't know if celebrities running for office is going to be the best idea, but we'll have to see what zuckerberg chooses to do. neil: you know what's different in zuckerberg's case is that he's a business titan, very, very successful. his story's rather remarkable. so you could make the argument that he would be an odd but maybe compelling kind of curiosity early on. to your point, the kind of stuff that happens this an off year -- in an off year before the big year, you know? >> yeah. and i don't really know if curiosities are the best thing i

want running for the highest office over any of the offices -- neil: well, that's interesting. you think maybe the trump experience and the people who had doubts it went too far could actually hurt him? >> who knows? zuckerberg's so different from trump, and he would pitch radically different ideas. who knows, maybe the disenfranchised that voted for trump on the other end of the spectrum might turn and say, hey, i'll try zuckerberg, what the heck. neil: so you don't think that this should give kid rock reasons to worry because he, too, is contemplating -- [laughter] >> i think kid rock potentially running in michigan is great, but i don't think zuckerberg is going to be running for anything in michigan, so who knows? we'll have to see what happens. it's nothing if not exciting. neil: you know, you never know. >> right. neither neither katie, thank you very much. >> thanks. neil: the dow not doing much of anything right now, still up about twelve and a third points

right now. mcdonald's, which had been on fire, not so much right now. a lot of questions about the momentum and the steam towards tax cut, whether they do materialize this year, and if they do, will they be that big? after this. ♪ .

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. neil: all right, residents touting the market and the economy, voters are trying to

create a legislative wins, could the house flip it if it doesn't? the senate starting vacation, despite the promise that they wouldn't start a vacation, well, concerns. let's put it that way. matt schlapp, democratic strategist and "after the bell" co-host david asman. dave, begin with you, then, they need a win. >> they need a win but i'm optimistic about taxes. i know you think it may be put off until next year. neil: if that. >> the democrats signed a manifesto about taxes. it says more of the same that the government's the best entity to spend money in the economy, better than the private sector that's now taxes. they want to continue to spend as much government money. neil: that manifesto signed by 45 of 48 democrats don't consider cutting taxes on the top 1%. >> it leaves a huge vacuum for donald trump to step in tonight, he's speaking out.

i hope he hits on taxes, and yesterday, you had a lot of people on, bill mcgern and others, needs to hit them on the base. neil: right, i need to know where he stands. >> we know that he believes that the government does a worse job. neil: i know, i don't know how far he wants to go with this. >> he better, this is an opportunity. >> you are right about that, but michael, i don't know whether democrats demanding that, you know, conditions to have bipartisan talks is the right way to go either? >> democrats are open to coming to the table. but donald trump himself -- neil: does he put all the conditions on it? >> we have things we want to see done, we don't want taxes. neil: why would you preclude or exclude anything, sit down, talk. we'll go to olive garden. >> there we go, all-you-can-eat bread. neil: don't knock it. >> we don't want tax cuts to be -- neil: bring it up when you talk. >> we, can we have things -- you don't go to the table without any preconditions, you

want things that the other side knows. neil: you'll never get them talking that way. matt, that's the concern. i don't want to leave out matt. the only thing i guess, if you are a conservative, and i know you're one of the nation's most important once, i'm telling you the message i'm getting from republicans, they don't know which end is up. they don't know what they want. they don't know what the president wants? does he want a tax on the upper income. want it to be across the board? real reform or tinkering? i've always argued just for clarity, maybe time for the president to do oval office address? >> right, three things here, there's a lot of change in the west wing and the president's staff with a brand-new chief of staff, i don't think there will be major changes on the economic team, but there will be changes if the white house, that will help them mobilize grassroots support for the agenda. that's what was missing on health care. television ads don't get it done, you need grassroots people calling offices and doing events. that's what's going to happen

in texas when. people talk about the top 1% like the democrats, neil, you know what that means it means we're fine with corporate tax reductions but do not want to allow small business tax cuts. we don't want to do anything on the individual side. that is a non-starter for republicans, that letter is a dead letter. neil: might be a dead letter, i think republicans should be worried about division among themselves. >> but there is still an overall vision. neil: let me give you one big one that's going to divide them. >> what's that? neil: should you pay for them. >> eh. a lot of republicans are talking. i would say that's a liberal position. neil: but, but, but, but -- there are five who feel that way. >> there is still a general view, when you ask a question whose money is it, the people who earn it or the government who spends it? the vast majority, a couple of stragglers say it's the people who earn it. that's where the money belongs. neil: there are those who worry

about the deficit and they're not going it budget. >> donald trump has the core messages that ronald reagan used to make in the 1980s about what the role of government is in this society. he's got to come out and say it, he's got to do it to the general public. neil: michael, do you see a case, the opposition, notwithstanding to the key tenets that you mentioned where especially the three democrats who didn't sign the letter, manchin was one. that they could form the base. work with republicans to tip this toward approval? >> i think at the end of the days, you have a gang of 8 predicament where you have democrats, republicans come together, sit down, and come up with a bipartisan bill, at the end of the day, we're coming up on the fiscal cliff and have to do something. there's issues of repatriating funds for businesses. neil: would you be for that? >> i would be, i think that we need to incentivize companies bringing back businesses, bring back the money to be taxed. i don't think companies should be allowed to move corporations

to ireland, get the tax benefits. neil: what's the problem with ireland? >> i love the beer. the beer's good. neil: all right. matt, the only thing i worry about, i know the obvious, and david mentioned it on his show, they got to do something, and they know very well that the prospects for controlling washington as they do now, next year, at least two branches deteriorates rapidly if they don't get something done. they seem to have a suicide wish. what is that? >> yeah, here's the thing, which is you're right, if they don't get the major promises they've made to the voters done. i think they are in great political risk. it is a mistake on taxes to already assume they can't get it done. i think if they should get it through on reconciliation, they shouldn't pay for it, if they don't need to and try do this as much as they can, as a republican effort with democrats, especially senators who are in the red states who for a precarious position in 2018. at the end of the day, they've

got to do something on taxes. they stood up against repealing obamacare, not popular in the states. if they stand up against tax cuts for small businesses, they are going to be the once vulnerable, and i think michael is right. some of the democrats have to break away to save their own political necks. >> can i ask michael a question? michael, president obama put together a bipartisan commission back when he was president. they said lower the corporate rates, get rid of deductions, the president just tabled, that ignored that report. it was the only bipartisan approach to tax reform we've ever had since the 1980s and the president got rid of it, put it in the trash can. didn't that disappoint you? >> it did, for all of his criticisms he went out of his way to make sure the republicans in this group and that it was not just -- >> he dumped the report. >> he didn't dump the report. there was not support for. >> a lot of support among republicans. >> the more conservative side of the democratic wing and the

tea party side couldn't get it done. it created an awkward situation he spent political capital to get it done. >> it's his fault it went in the trash. neil: can i update, getting word from the white house some of these very issues from omb director mick mulvaney via our john roberts. he's addressed, that is the budget director. some of the issues on the debt ceiling increase, mulvaney was open as you might recall to make it on the condition of either doing something on cutting spending, you know, cutting taxes, addressing the debt beyond just this temporary measure, but all those conditions seem to be gone. mulvaney right now gone of the steve mnuchin camp, this should be a clean debt ceiling race, ban the proposal to raise taxes on the very richest is dead, it's not going anywhere.

your thoughts? >> like the border adjustment tax, remember that? that eventually went no where. they've got to get it done. i think they're going to be it. this is one hump they will get over relatively easily. neil: clear the way for debt ceiling. >> yeah, and it would also -- it would clear the way for clear process to tax. i think, by the way, michael, i like to believe that two or three democrats would come on board to at least on corporate tax rates, everybody agrees that the reason why companies are going to ireland is because tax rates are too high. neil: you don't want them to be too low. the 20% figure is too low? >> that's a decent number. neil: really? >> i do. the one big thing republicans and democrats are going to do at the end of the day, it's going to be a surprise. you'll see democrats suggest we bring back the framework of the grand bargain and start negotiating from that point because it included corporate issues, it included social cuts. it addressed all the issues.

neil: but everyone got to put their own skin in the game. >> everyone is going to -- >> i think it's exactly the opposite. i think there are individual issues like a corporate tax. we're going to see just the carveouts which are very few. neil: matt, did i want to get your thought, and i know you are concerned with this stuff and sometimes in debt ceiling, you know, battles in the past, it's always been over should we willy-nilly raise the debt as we have 54, 55 times? or do something different? it looks like pushing for a clean debt ceiling increase, and moving on. how do you feel about that? >> yeah, conservatives would like to see us test this proposition that if you don't increase the debt limit, all hell breaks loose, and there are people who feel like that is not exactly -- neil: do you feel like that? >> the problem for me and a lot of us we've never tested this minefield, if you go there and

everything goes hell in the hen basket -- neil: remember the rating agency that tripled our -- s&p i think, we avoided, no, you could be right. we avoided that, but the whole parade of characters and issues, it began to look silly ultimately prompted a downgrade. you don't even need something doing, that shutting the government down. >> here's my view, i'm disappointed. i'm not saying they shouldn't find a way to raise the debt limit that brings in conservative voices. they should do that. this is all a silly proposition, you can keep raising the debt limit, if you don't do anything about entitlements, we're cooked. only way you do that is with the grand bargain. i agree with david, something is going to be brought together by the end of the year to take care of the budget and take care of tax cuts. i'm not looking for tax reform anymore.

i think it's too big, i think we'll get individual and corporate tax cuts and i also think -- neil: that will be enough to keep the party in power? . >> hold the presses, i think we're going to get a fix on obamacare. if we don't get that, i think our congressional -- neil: did you have a couple of martinis before getting here? >> no, afterwards, afterwards. you heard it here first. neil: before, during and after. david, what do you think of that? >> i think the martinis is great idea. neil: there you go. >> i don't think that health care is, i think that is a bridge too far. neil: matt's been right on a lot of this. >> he has, i'm not in the beltway, i was brought up there, i couldn't wait to get out of it. neil: i like matt goes on all the shows and argues his position quite well. >> the whole family does. neil: you are both very good at that. >> it is because of the martinis. neil: god bless your gut. go ahead. david. we're going to have individual items that are passed, and you ask if it's enough, maybe not

enough for 2018 elections but enough for the stock market. neil: if they make them retroactive. >> look, i agree with charlie gasparino, i hate to say that, it's dangerous to do. but i think that the stock market rise right now is not because of tax cuts cooked into it. it's because of what the president has done is reducing regulations because these pro business as opposed to anti-business president, and if you have a couple of tax cuts on top of what he's done about regulations, it could go up 500 or a thousand points. >> measure of getting debt increase going up smoothly. the markets will go nuts. that will happen. >> that is true. that is true. neil: so how can your friends in the democratic party help avoid this? >> i mean, we have to figure out our budget, and so democrats, they have to work with republicans when it comes to our budget and comes to making sure we're meeting -- neil: do you ever find it weird, you're a great person and a great guest. >> oh. neil: and i say that to republicans who blasted obama

and piled up under debt, piled up under bush and all sorts of presidents. sudden fixation with the debt and the overspending, like me lecturing you on the speed of the life cycle. i'm hearing chuck schumer, the debt and all -- stop. >> i think it's the politics of the game that we all want to complain about the budget when we're not there. we are at a precipice where we have to make sure that job creation with the budget that we're meeting our moral obligations. >> i can't help smiling when you say these things, though. it was from 10 to $20 trillion it went up under president obama? >> that is the collapse of wall street and -- neil: i don't think both the parties care about the debt. >> it's the swamp. it's beltway swamp. >> the political environment. >> the quicksand of the beltway swamp. your generation is the one that's going to get burned.

we're going to be fine. >> are you ever going to get social security? >> my generation accepts we're paying it for you guys. >> appreciate it! >> exactly. i want to thank michael and david and matt, always, thank you very, very much. the dow up about 12.8 points. the fallout from the immigration debate or whatever they were calling it, i always wonder when i see the arguments go back and forth, why is the reporter premic'ed? i wonder. you decide. is this a phone?

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. neil: all right, you might have caught this press conference yesterday. continued outrage over the immigration bill. republican senator lindsey graham has concerns. the likelihood of it passing, very unlikely right now, but still early, immigration expert says the outrage is a bit overblown. why? this has turned into front page headline crazy, crazy stuff, bring us back to reality here. what's really going on with this? >> thank you, thank you. you know, everything that has to do with immigration is always front headline news,

because the signature plank for president trump. but i think that what senator graham is saying is true, and many in my community would agree with him. we want people to learn english. we want people to hold jobs. we want people not to live off welfare. welcome the doctors and the computer scientists and the entrepreneurs, but the problem with this project or this new initiative from the trump administration is that it's just looking at one side. the highest skilled workers. what's happening with the low-skilled workers. the doctors and the entrepreneurs are not going to be picking up the jalapeno peppers in southern california or cleaning toilets in man man. we need people like them as well. what happens? i think he's pointed it out clearly, if we do not address what the market needs, then illegals will start coming back, brought by the agricultural tycoons and the construction moguls. that's what's happening in

texas right now. look at construction boom. i think i said it in the show last time i was invited that there is an underground railroad system bringing in illegals from mexico to lay the bricks and carry the 4 x 4's in texas. >> the genesis for all this are a lot of tech ceos who complain, and this goes back years, that there are not enough math and engineering students or qualified candidates in this country so they look for the same skill from chinese workers or indian workers and they want more visas or green cards for them, and the push they argued is we need to beat that out because we don't have enough of the skill sets here, but i thought that's improved lately. that we do have more such students with such backgrounds, and that this is just an excuse on the part of these companies

to get the same skill set for less money? >> and i agree with you, and we know that the h1-b as in boy as what you are mentioning has been extremely abused. 85,000 h1-b's, absolutely, and i think we should fine in a very robust manner the companies abusing the system. and if the american boy that graduated from the university of virginia has the credentials, he needs to be hired. absolutely. because we all live here. neil: how do you compare it -- they always quote australia and canada. when i first heard this, the english speaking countries but what the administration is talking about, these are countries that have the similar standards on who they pick to get citizenship or temporary visas or the equivalent of green cards that the procedures are in place. what do they do that we're trying to emulate? >> what we're trying to do here, i think we should

backtrack a little bit. what i think the administration is doing is trying to scratch the 1965 immigration law, family chain immigration, which i agree should be revised, should be tweeked. it's not possible that 70% of the people that have come to this country in the last 50 years are the only -- the most important requisite is because they know somebody or have a family member. that needs to be revised. so that's what australia and canada is doing, but should do it with a heart, and that's where we need to end that on top of that, not just going to the compassion. also the vulnerability of compassion is what we're suffering because we are such a great nation that we have welcomed many people. now it's time to take a look at it, and i'm sure millions in my community agree with what i'm telling you, because remember, we also pay taxes, and we don't want other hispanics to be living off welfare, living off you and me. neil: isn't that how it used to

be in this country? my parents one set from ireland, the other from italy, the requirement was at time that you had to have someone here to support you because the government wasn't going to do it. good prospects for a job and the third criteria, you couldn't have disease, if you have disease or problems, you were shipped back literally. >> i come from the same group as you, my parents cuban-american, they came. prior 1965. neil: okay. >> the difference between 65 and now, the law has been relaxed. once again, because we are the best country in the world, and we are very compassionate. regardless what people outside of the united states say. so what i'm saying is they think that senator graham, what he's trying advise is just to tweek the law, but also look at market. what the market needs. we could avoid all this immigration problem if we could sit down both parties and say this is what the moguls need,

and this is what we stand for, and then creating an immigration reform law with both parties sitting down at the table. that's what we need, not this little here and that little there. neil: and calling each other names, it's not productive. >> it's a waste of time. neil: yeah, i wanted to pick your brain quickly on venezuela, seems to be erupting into civil war, i have quite a few friends in colombia nearby and they're worried about it. what do you make of it? >> absolutely. i went to school, harvard the john f. kennedy school of government for me he's a hero. he's giving his life literally for his country. the venezuelans are fighting for their lives and democracy. we have to remember that venezuela has one of the most robust and one of the longest democracies in the americas, and, but, you know, chavez came and was following havana line

trying to create paradise on earth and that's what communists and socialists sell to the masses and look where they're now. they're basically fighting, and we, the united states, we need to applied nuclear option, stop buying venezuelan oil. we are the number one partner. if we don't pay for the oil, 71% of the oil is bought by the united states. so then you sell it to china and see what happens. neil: always great having you, great guest. thank you very much for coming. >> thank you, sir. >> elvirra salazar. speaking of sanctions and how they work, for powerful sanctions, you have to be willing as a country doing the sanctioning to feel the pain yourself. and i bring this up in what we want to do to iran and north korea and particularly china and russia, as a rule of thumb for them to hurt it's got to

hurt us, they'll go back at us, china particularly will go back at us and start slapping sanctions on what we did and start charging more for the things we want to get, and all of a sudden, when you go into a walmart or costco all of a sudden, what would happen, if the price of the goods that you want to buy doubled and tripled? it's happened before. would you do the patriotic duty and suck that up, or would you start having a problem? the flipside of sanctions, after this. f-150. michael: i've always been a ford guy. potsch: then i have a real treat for you today. michael: awesome. potsch: i'm going to show you a next generation pickup. michael: let's do this. potsch: this new truck now has a cornerstep built right into the bumper. gary: super cool. potsch: the bed is made of high-strength steel, which is less susceptible to punctures than aluminum. jim: aluminum is great for a lot of things, but maybe not the bed of a truck. potsch: and best of all, this new truck is actually- gary: (all laughing) oh my... potsch: the current chevy silverado. gary: i'm speechless. gary: this puts my ford truck to shame. james: i'll tell you, i might be a chevy guy now. (laughing)

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neil: just getting word state state secretary of state rex tillerson and sergey lavrov spoken by phone. blake burman at the white house with more on this. hey, blake. >> neil, president trump called sanctions package, eventually signed into law, seriously flawed.

but he also chastised congress a bit yesterday in the signing statement, hey, look you couldn't even negotiate your way in and out of health care reform. leave negotiating essentially he said to me. to that end president sent out a tweet, following, our relationship with russia is at an all-time and very dangerous low. you can thank congress the same people he says that can't even give us health care. the russian prime minister used signing to criticize united states and needle trump that he lost out to the establishment. he wrote, the trump administration has shown total weakness handing over executive power to congress in the most humiliating way. the sanctions target russia, north korea, iran. which a government official contended, neil, this violates the iran nuclear deal negotiated an signed by previous administration. vowed to respond in a way that

would be quote smart. neil? neil: blake, thank you, very, very much the thing about sanctions, tit-for-tat, whatever you want to call it in these type of things you have to be prepared for fallout on you. as american consumers look at this, possibility is, whether russia or particularly china, we're looking to get tough because they have not delivered goods on trade matters, for that matter on north korea, dealing with north korea, they might respond in kind to sanctions we're considering, driving up price of goods you buy every day in places like walmart. are we ready to suck that up, maybe pay twice as much for certain goods to make a political statement and support the president's tough stance and others tough stance dealing with these nations? retired navy seal commander dave sears. dave, i think that is the big tell-all. whether we're willing to do that. whether the president in this case could make a case to remind us about that? >> i think you said something

very important there, neil, can he make case what he is trying to do is going to be successful. where can he try to go? war in afghanistan, iraq, saying what do you hope to accomplish with those sanctions that will benefit the american people as a nation? personally i don't see sanctions, especially against authoritarian regimes working. it hasn't worked in the past. there is no good track record of it. it does not change behavior. you end up with trade war. american people suck up consumer higher prices for what reason? neil: think about it, they are going after china this time. sanctions on north korea haven't worked in the past. if we put them on china, punish them, then all of a sudden their, you know, their sugar daddy goes away or is in trouble. might pay more attention. you don't buy that? >> i don't buy that at all. we support free trade. we want that to occur. more intertwined economically

with somebody the better leverage we do have. if we look at china, if it didn't work against north korea, how would you imagine it worked against china. it didn't work against saddam. didn't work against milosevic. neil: amazed, grateful for your service and background and frustrates guys on front line and guys like you dealing with bad guys, how do you send a message effective. if sanctions are not, what is? >> find out what incents china to keep this buffer of north korea there, correct? when we look at that, what can we do to defang north korea. it is not sanctions. look at different things out there. if you have a anti-ballistic missile system, thaad system that works well and makes their icbms obsolete, that starts to defang them quite a bit. do you pull more japan piece in? there are other pieces of

leverage, we keep trying same thing over and over again hoping for different results. definition of insanity, right? neil: it is weird. dave sears. thank you, a matter of moments before we hear from the russians and chinese they respond to growing growing talk we'll do something about them before we get details of all of this. it could lead obviously to dave's point a nasty tit-for-tat that doesn't end well. notwithstanding, senate shaken about this, funny way of showing it. they're all skipping town today. i seem to remember they promised to work first two weeks of august. that would be a time when they would make a move on skinny health care repeal that would require them to come up with alternative with the house. that does not look to be the case. they figured, what the hell, just leave. the markets don't seem to care. should you.

♪ neil: all right. i thought they were going to stick around, at least middle of august. turns out senate leaving town, pretty fast. adam shapiro with latest on that. surely there were other things for them to do? >> yeah, that can wait until september. there is possibility we might see some movement on health care. certainly president trump would like to do that. mitch mcconnell did request for senators to delay for two weeks their august recess. they will split that in half. one week of a delay. even though there is going to be a recess per se, this will be in session pro-forma so there can't be recess appointment should something happen. recess at hand, neil, tax reform. that is what is coming in september. i want you to hear what mark meadows said about passing this major legislation. >> if we do not have a bill

we're actually debating, in sent, who, hopefully gets a vote by october, it will not get to the president's desk by thanksgiving. if it doesn't get there by thanksgiving, guys, it isn't going to happen. >> neil, we heard from members of the administration, gary cohn earlier this week, they expect mark-ups to begin on legislation and house at least early september. we could see voting come october and november. tax reform is front and center, although everyone knows we have to raise the debt ceiling. there has to be the budget resolution. so they will have a full plate when they get back from recess. neil? neil: amazing. adam, thank you very much, adam shapiro. now a lot of people are saying if the stock market were worried about this, funny way of showing it. but there is another market that shows a revealing chart here. you know we love charts here. the dollar. it has been falling since the

election. this could be proxy for those doubting this agenda gets through. the dollar looks less attractive as an investment as a result. let's get read from market watchers carol roth and jonas max ferris. carol, what do you think of that? >> the dollar like all curren is complex thing. it is not just side to economy, what is happening in congress, macrofactors i don't know if we peg perfect correlation or say perfectly where we want that dollar to be. i think though the markets are giving everybody a pass. maybe dollar is hanging in there. at some point this many about as really big problem. if we don't get tax reform. one of the things that is going to happen is that we are not going to get that fuel that is not only increase ability to sustain those high market multiples, but there is something really scary on indirect basis.

if republicans can't get things done, they get kicked out. what kind of policies come behind that? businesses can't make decisions based on tax policy. neil: maybe you can help me with this, jonas. how are currency traders then different from let's say stock traders? what do they look at, they're global by nature, but how do they play events we see every day versus stock traders? >> they're largely making trades based on different interest rates between countries and that is very related to the make america great trump policies. i would say the dollar, to some extent interest rates are the best measure of likelihood and success of fiscal policies, tax cuts, infrastructure spending. the market is up, i think like third best president since election since before the crash in 29 and george bush i. that was not getting democrat policies. we're not getting a lot what was promised. republicans are not getting tax increases and spending programs.

those won't go away because things are not getting passed. perversely this year as trump's policies proposed falling apart, possibly never going to get done, that is when you see the u.s. dollar start to fall defend. it is lower in couple years. when foreign stocks start to do better than our markets. our markets were leading since the election. foreign bonds doing better related to dollar. because interest rates stopped going up. there will not be this juice of a big tax cut. of all programs going to happen. we're seeing equalization. those traders are not favoring our inhave. s our bonds which are not-- our bonds are not yielding as much as germany, france, et cetera. there is a little boost in those economies. they are doing better than we originally expected last year. >> neil, to be fair, if you look at the dollar, part of the reason dow companies which tend to be multinational are doing

better in relation to the fact we don't have such a strong dollar. when you have the strong dollar it affects things like exports. there is a balance to be found there. doesn't mean necessarily a perfectly direct correlation. neil: dollar get more bang for your buck. >> exactly. neil: this might be helping that process but how long, guys, can they both go in opposite directions here? it what are your thoughts, jonas? the dollar with our markets? >> i'm actually glad the dollar weakened recently. it was getting too strong only on optimism. it was getting to a point where we dragging economy down. we don't have tax cuts and other things that would be kick. if federal reserve raises rates all there would happen we might have a mild recession. dollar is still very strong compared to where it was five, six, seven years during peak america is in decline thinking. euro 1 is .50 dollars. back up over 1.10 dal.

it is still strong currency. it got too strong parity with euro. it is where it should be weaker without passing major stimulus program that would be a boost to our economy relative to other economies in the world. neil: carol, what do you think, if they're going in different directions typically what happens? >> well i think the one thing, neil, that i want to pull up from what jonas said folds into what you're asking, one of the biggest unknowns out there which is unprecedented fed stimulus. they have to not only unwind the program, figure out what that is going to do. we've got this going on not just in the u.s. but worldwide basis for central banks. there is sort of historical correlations that may be completely off the table because we have something that is so unprecedented in the mix. that is why a lot of these things that you would expect certain interest rates correlations to stocks, et cetera, have been off the

table completely because of all of the fiscal policy. neil: guys, thank you both very, very much. it is weird. we'll keep eye on it. we're not ignoring one in favor of other. stocks are racing, our dollar is not. we're finding out new and rather disturbing details about this hbo hack attack. it could get bigger. it could include more shows and could affect more networks after this. who knew that phones would start doing everything?

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tripadvisor. the latest reviews. the lowest prices. ♪ neil: you always discover this after the fact but this latest hbo hack attack, seven times larger than the one that involved sony. that was a doozy. fbi looking into it. we have a security expert looking into it. paul, this is humongous. i don't understand how this keeps happening. >> it is easy prey, neil. macro to the micro, $450 billion was generated from cybercrime. it's a great business model. how it happens, we don't put up much of a fight. neil: hbo doesn't pay any ransom if asked? >> they may well get hit with ransom request. this is in the game. they don't know. they don't know how watches hit. when we talk about a terabyte, a terabyte is equivalent to five

billion pages of data. the amount of information stolen at this point is unprecedented. no question. neil: what do they do with that? they complete this, but what do they have in the meantime? >> they could have content they sell which content is king. neil: sure. >> no question about that. they could have sensitive emails from executives that could pose nice extortion matters. financial information that could disrupt potential at&t acquisition. there are a variety of different plays they could use with this. roi would be significant on this, no question. neil: return on investment. how does it happen? steel me through the process how it goes, originating from abroad, i always think you need a worm or someone inside of the organization hping out. i always see that in the movies. what is the case? >> absolutely correct. highest probability it came from inside. cover both bases, comes from the outside, means you have to get

past the firewall. hbo will have advanced firewall. next to impossible to do that. the fact internet has 65,000 open ports. so any business has to have a couple of open ports to allow internet browser. advanced hacks will do that. still low probability with hbo. most likely either rogue employee, which is possible,. neil: right. >> that sold out to allow those multiple points of access. highest probability was it was an advanced phishing campaign that got in and then went horse is on thal. hence the explanation for multiple points of access inside of their system. neil: once you're in a company, do you always have access to that company, even when they build walls later? >> no question about that, neil. the best part about that question, neil, the advanced key loggers used today are not picked up by typical i.t. scans. if companies are not promoting yearly, i mean aggressive vulnerability assessments from the cyber side, they won't pick

up the fact that is in your system. and people are reading e-mails remotely. neil: how do you warn people at a company that there is a phishing expedition going on? help us. >> you train them, neil. tough train them. it is key. neil: what do you look out for? >> we're simply not doing it. no, you put them through it. even in our firm we have people that send me phishing, to see if i will open them. they're good. i get beat a lot of times. there is no question about that. but you send emails out through organization. we do it quarterly. you too much people if you open up an email that is actually a phishing email it will tell you. neil: how do you know what is phishing? >> you don't. that is how you start to learn by looking at the header, knowing what to open and what not to open. neil: common one used to be, you and i chatted before, familiar name, bank of america, citigroup, someone you know. >> right. neil: it has even their masthead or logo is requesting information. a bank, would a company getting

that information and questioning it that way? >> no, as absolutely not. the phishing train something detailed process. teaches people what to look out for. what are the red flags. if you see x, y or z in the header or subject simply don't open it. call a person or send separate. mail, hey, neil, did you send me an email about this? no i didn't. that one step will avoid clicking, getting information that contaminating your system. neil: paul, thank you very much. he does make you think. scary stuff. getting bigger and bigger. the president will hold a rally in west virginia tonight. we hear, big announcement, we don't know what the announcement could be, we're on it after this.

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>> we had three very talented people asking questions. i said how was it? i said it was elegant job. three of you. great job. thank you very much. donald trump, thank you very much. good seeing you again. >> thank you. >> we were he will he gant last time. we weren't elegant this time? neil: i like elegant. i go for that. good seeing you again, donald trump the front-runner in this race. since we never talk anyway, the mystery is solved over mr. elegant. it is moi.

had to go through names and security guards to figure out who he was talking about. i think it is an open-and-shut case. why would some people think i'm not elegant as if. cheryl casone, i'm offended but mystery solved. cheryl: i use the word inspirational with you, neil. neil: that is nice way of putting that. cheryl: that is my description. neil, thank you very much. neil: you got it. cheryl: we have a lot to cover on fox business. we're hours away from president trump's make america great rally in west virginia where he will say he will make a big announcement. don't know what it is. can't wait to find out. at white house deals with more leaks. i'm cheryl casone, everybody. i'm in for trish reagan today. welcome to welcome to "the intelligence report." wash upon post post ad