we've had financial crises before, and we're not in one now, that's resilience. neil: ben. >> spdr's, buy an index of america, you'll do fine. neil: profitable advice andsisi more now. >> with president trump set to touch down in texas again today, we're learning more than 100,000 home owners in the state are expected to file federal flood insurance claims. some already are finding out they don't have enough coverage. that's why someone here says it's time to privatize the market. are they right or wrong? hi, i'm david asman. welcome to forbes on fox. let's go in focus, with elizabeth macdonald, john tamny, bruce jansen, folks against privatization say that insurers would skip by flood zones like texas. what do you say to that? >> well, no, i think the big

insurance companies, the private insurance companies would price in the risk. if there was money to be made by pricing in risk, they would do it. this is what we need. it's kind of ridiculous that all of the american taxpayers should be on the hook for national flood insurance, as tragic as this situation is. look, the all time record for a flood payout was $20 billion. hurricane andrew in 1992. that was a cat 5 hurricane. had it hit miami, there are estimates it would have been 200 billion. that's a lot for even our federal government is to absorb. david: it is. and bruce, already, the national flood insurance program is $23 billion in debt. this storm could make it go up another 10 to $15 billion in debt. there doesn't seem to be any end to it. >> well, here is the problem with private insurance managing

big risks and so forth. they're only good at it, until they're not. you can look at that in other industries, whether it be aig in financial or health insurance companies that did well in the first two years of obamacare and didn't, weren't an i believe to manage it and then they got out. if you have private insurance companies and they start to lose a little money like the government is, nethey'll bail o and leave everybody holding the bag. david: i'm not sure. the bottom line is simple mathematics, john tamny. the program does not charge rates high enough to offset the costs, right? >> let's be clear. no one would ever knowingly pild in a place where they thought they would lose their house in a flood. no amount of insurance would make it worth it. the big thing here is that market signals matter. they're valuable. if the private sector were pricing in insurance, they would say, if you want to build here, it's going to cost you more, given historical flooding patterns. here would be safer and so people would be the ultimate

beneficiaries because they'd be most likely to build where they're least likely to be flooded. i'll point out one thing, houston is not historically a flood zone and that's why most people didn't get insurance. david: well, and e-mack, frankly, that's one of the distinguishing features of this storm, it did not happen in a historic flood zone. it shocked people. if there's a need for national flood insurance, maybe this is the one place where is really is needed. >> you know, this is a contentious debate. did i just hear bruce admit that obamacare is failing? i'm kidding. >> no, i did not. >> just teasing! a little levity. it's my time, not yours. this is my time not yours, just kidding. here is the thing, we're hearing from local reports is that developers went in and fought and said we're going to develop here in these low-lying coastal areas, when the officials tried to put the flood gauges in, the real estate developers put them out so people didn't know the zones they were in that could be

prone to flooding. that's the issue. i agree with rich, i think you need to have market forces here to price it correctly for insurance for these areas and you know, by the way, our hearts go out to the victims and the families who are so hard-hit by harvey right now. david: what we're looking at the on the right side of the screen are before and after shots. in your lifetime and grandfather's lifetime, it hadn't been flooded and you see the changes, the homes that everybody thought were safe, but clearly weren't, how would private insurers do better than a federal program? >> it's absolutely heartbreaking that's happening and we wish the best for everyone. e-mack is absolutely right as always, that there was a distortion here. the fact that people didn't have information asymmetry. they didn't have to make a fully enveloped decision and those $100,000 people are probably going to get a rude awakening when they see the bureaucracy

and paper work at that goes into the claims. there are all kinds of federal strings tied. anything you could imagine from requiring labor unions, to rebuild, certain, you know, demographics have to be. it's a nightmare in terms of trying to use the government as a means to protect against this. so, that's just more evidence for the need for the private insurance. that's what we need. david: well, rich, let me go back to the point that this is a generational they think. this hasn't happened, as far as we know, our records of flooding go back about 100 years in some of the areas and nobody has seen anything in that span of time. on the other hand, texas is ranked third as the third riskiest state in the union for floods. so, do you just designate the whole area of southern texas a flood zone? >> well, you know, in 1935, there was a hurricane and houston had more flooding downtown than it had this time. i think this one was spread throughout the area to a much

greater degree and of course, it's a very large population base now because it's been one of the outlier higher performing cities in the u.s. economy of late, but we have to-- i know this is -- emotions are running high and people are suffering, but at some point we have to introduce this idea of private insurance, so risks are properly priced. david: bruce, incentives do matter, don't they? >> well, sure, but here is the deal. if you're going to do that, you're going to have to have everybody buy a policy and we've seen that with car insurance and health care and everything, and you guys like people to have the option whether to buy it or not. if you don't have everybody in the pool, it's not going to work. david: john, what about the fact this is an area that nobody expected to see floods. there was an example that rich just gave us of an occurrence in flooding in houston, the swamp

was so wide it went beyond what were considered flood zones. >> there's a question of asymmetry. the story from people in houston, should we buy flood insurance, and history dictated you didn't need to. one way to look at this, it's another opportunity for the private sector to do what it does so well, is providing insurance for what is catastrophic or once in a lifetime. this would be, obviously, very cheap and it's something precisely because this has happened in houston that people will look more closely at. >> i'm from utah and people do have flooded basements in the middle of the desertsment-- desert. so i think you need to give people information. and price the building, not just insurance, higher prices if you're going to build to begin with. david: e-mack, the end of

september when congress takes up the issue whether or not to refund this program. $20 billion in debt. that's a lot of money, but i look at pictures coming out of texas, it's a slam-dunk, they're going to get more money, aren't they. >> they are and more hurricanes are in hurricane season in september. i don't see congress backing off that. david: corporate america and local texas businesses doing whatever they can to help the victims of hurricane harvey. we're going to tell you the good they're doing that you might not ♪ you know how painful heartburn can be. for fast-acting, long-lasting relief, try doctor recommended gaviscon. it quickly neutralizes stomach acid and helps keep acid down for hours. relieve heartburn with fast- acting, long-lasting gaviscon.

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i'm leland vittert. now, back to forbes on fox. david: apple, facebook, anheuser-busch, wal-mart, many more major companies sending aid or matching donations to help victims of hurricane harvey and local businesses like this one, this is gallery furniture in however, opening its doors to those in need of sheltering. carrie, you say this shows that companies are good, despite all the demonization of business by the media?

>> absolutely. you know, business too often is used as a pinata. people like bernie sanders. millennials loves what he says because he wants to find a bad bogeyman and fulfilling that role. bernie sanders has three houses and takes money from business to line his own pockets. business shows business at the finest hour. america is the shining city on the hill and that's why people are much wealthier than in europe. we allow free enterprise to come in and fill this void and give this sort of charity and goodwill to people. david: john, isn't it a good thing when private businesses do charity? we've seen a lot of it. >> it's a good thing, but i would add i hope they're doing it with good public relations. love does not build all the wealth we have, pure, rational driven self-interest does. i hope that all of these businesses come in and see economic opportunity down the line. if so, that means that houston will recover more quickly and

private sector is much better at this. david: you compare what private companies are doing with their own money and what politicians brag about what they're doing with other people's money. it's much easier to do the latter than the former, right? >> right, d.c., they act like big shots with other people's money. remind me in washington d.c. and how they spend your money, it's like old 50's science fiction movies of god sitting in clouds like jason and argonauts. we saw that with katrina, the cha-ching that was katrina. they were basically buying themselves ipads and expensive soccer balls from local officials and this can turn into a pork storm, we get it. i think that the private sector is showing the way here. wow, it's inspiring. david: another thing about the private sector, bruce, they monitor how their money is spent much more than the government does. we've seen that whether you're talking about the pentagon or

fema or whatever bureaucracy? >> yeah, i mean, i think that the private companies certainly down in houston look better than joel osteen, that's for sure. you look at the companies and a lot of foundations look like marketing arms. when you see stuff like this going on, it's a good thing and also when they do things like gouge prices for bottles of water and so forth, they get called out on social media. so they're kind of held in check as well. david: by the way, best buy did apologize for apparently what one of their businesses did do and they have turned those around. and those examples are so small and the media blows them up. and there's another point that touches on what john tamny does. isn't it in the self-interest for companies that want to be good neighbors and helps them long after the disaster is over, right? >> yes, it does. and i think it goes the other way. and this is a disagreement i have with my good friend john.

i think that pure rational self-interest without a firm foundation built on ethics as a judeo-commission variety which people step up that rational self-interest is fragile. david: john, you were called out. >> call me out all you want. because businesses want to make money, they don't have to be moral. i want to if it enhances my living standards. one great things, it makes people realize, people on houston on the ground look at how much more effective private self-interested businesses are. >> wait a second. >> mattress mack-- i'm sorry, you don't see mattress mack say i'm in it for the money. wait a second, know the everybody agrees is on that one line of thought that you described in the business world

and i'm waiting for bernie sanders and nancy pelosi and chuck schumer to say, way to go, businesses, way to go! >> don't hold your breath. david: does it matter why companies are doing it? whether it's eventually in their own self-interest or not, it helps the people in need, right? >> this is the difference between intention versus outcome, which liberals do not understand. you've got to look at outcomes and what actually matters. john, i disagree with you and john mackie the owner of whole food. that the company should only be maximizing shareholder matters and-- >> that's where we have to leave this discussion. the cashin' in gang. lauren simonetti is hosting. >> as president trump is visiting some areas devastated by harvey, some are bashing his

first visit earlier this week. is the media trying to divide us as the country unites around harvey victims. and how hurricane harvey could unite congress for tax reform. we'll see you at 11:30. david: thank you. some here say the government's response to harvey shows the president's plan to shrink the government will work. that's c oh boy. looking for adventure this labor day? holy smokes. oh man, that's pretty intense. look no further than chevrolet. this is a fast car. i feel like i left my soul back there. wow. this has power! head to the chevy labor day sales event and ride out the summer in a new chevrolet. current chevy owners can use labor day bonus cash to get a total value of eleven thousand- six hundred dollars on this silverado all star. or, get 0% financing

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>> well, the president certainly facing his first major test in crisis management this week while many of his top administration posts have not

yet been confirmed like the department of homeland security which everseas fema and the coast guard an and the head of the national oceanic and atmospheric administration. the president says he will actually leave many mid level jobs unfilled to shrink the bloated government and john tamny, you're okay with that, right? >> yes, good for president trump here. fema doesn't have any constitutional basis in the first place, but in the bigger sense, with government less there's always more. whenever there's a government shutdown in washington, i want to meet the people who feel they really notice it throughout the country that we have less government. we need to see that we're fine when there's less happening in washington. david: so, e-mack, maybe leave these jobs unfilled? >> we don't need the state department enjoy for hillary clinton transparency-- well, maybe we do. we don't need the enjoy for iran-- oh, maybe we do, hang on. for india, south korea, japan,

we need the ambassadors yet to be seated and don't have one for ireland yet. i get it about shrinking government, yeah, we don't need a lot of this extra, extra people sitting there. i'm all for that. there's some important key people that do need to be hired though. david: all right, bruce, what do you think? do we need them or not? >> i don't know. he's not specific who he wants. i think it's more about complete incompetence, he hasn't said he's going to send to fill for all we know he might be paying for more unemployment insurance for priebus bus and spicer and everybody else. david: and in congress, they're not doing their job confirming people who need confirmation. what about the idea of not filling some of the positions to shrink government? >> i think that government should be shrunk, maybe, 10, 20% across the board, but i think the top positions, i think that president trump has to take some

responsibility here. because of his tweeting, because of his anger outbursts against some of the very people he hired,s' made it very difficult for himself to recruit the kinds of high quality people that you want. david: but carrie, maybe he makes the best of a bad situation and leave these posts unfilled in order to shrink the government? >> sure, i've got to salute mick mulvaney he's made it a priority to shrink this and a lot of these spots are unfilled because of democratic intransigent. >> that's not true. the republicans control the congress. >> even the liberal media showed the spots need to be filled and held up. david: a lot of them are held up

by democrats, bruce, just like they were held up by republicans in a different administration. and congress just have one thing in mind, they want to get reelected. the president wants to go around that, is he going to be successful? >> i doubt he'll be successful. and i'm sorry, i've never lost interest or lost sleep over who is the ambassador to italy or india. i want someone to tell me who they were in these past administrations. [laughter] >> we're going to leave it at that. that. steady names ♪ ah, my poor mouth breather. allergies? stuffy nose? can't sleep? enough. take that. a breathe right nasal strip of course. imagine just put one on and pow! it instantly opens your nose up to 38% more than allergy medicine alone. so you can breathe, and sleep. better than a catnap. shut your mouth and say goodnight, mouthbreathers.

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>> and we are back with the names helping the market hold steady. e-mack, a dividend stock fund. >> vanguard has shown solid performance in shaky times.

david: rich, a biotech called gi gillead. >> a great pipeline going forward. david: prayers to those in the gulf coast. cashin' in starts right now. lauren: president trump making his second visit to the gulf coast in less than a week. he'll be shaking a lot of hands. you can bet the mainstream media won't be giving him a fair shake. take a look how they covered his visit on tuesday. accusing him of focusing on himself, showing no empathy, someone here says, instead of criticizing in the wake of disaster, the media should be trying to bring the country together. well, hi, everybody, i'm lauren simonetti, welcome to cashin' in. rachel, juan williams, larry glasier and scott martin. welcome everybody, to the show. >> thank you. lauren: the media still attacking president trump, even as america deals with the tragedy in texas