companies of 20% in a year. >> crazy g, got the press hyped up about his rocket chips to china for less than 30 minute rides, get the fastest jet up 15 %. >> dagen: neil now. >> tax reform should go through regular order, it should help the middle class not the top 1% and should not increase our deficit. >> we on the democrat side are pay as you go. you want a tax cut, pay for it. we're not there to be accomplice s to increasing the deficit with a bill that does not create jobs. neil wait a minute i'm not taking sides here but now you're worried about spending about deficits forgive me but when i hear democrats lecturing anyone about deficits and things like pay as you go, isn't that a lot like me telling you, you know, all you can eat but a go slow. welcome everybody glad to have you i'm neil cavuto and does anyone see a little bit of

hipocracy here charles payne? we got amy holmes here, and back with ben stein and all right charles payne a little rich that's it. >> charles: a little rich, pay as you go, we don't like deficits we're against the debt and you know, no one takes it seriously and of course these are the same democratic party that talked about spending money like crazy as always an investment right? so what about the idea of investing in the american public and american businesses to keep more of their money that they've earned by the way and then putting it into the economy. and it's on the face of a debt it's just it's disin again use us you can't take it seriously and the idea of regular order the democrats want to play ball we know they've been obstruction and republicans have to figure out a way to get this through and not fumble like they've done with every effort to repeal obamacare. neil amy what do you think? >> amy: the one thing senator schumer said i agree with was

doing it by regular order unlike obamacare. neil what would regular order be by the way? >> i think they throwing around this $3 word. >> amy: that means it goes to committee and then committee vote and then senate. >> but there's no mystery in it. >> amy: on the calendar and then 60%. >> but the democrats won't play ball but when i was looking at the hipocracy of the democrats this issue with taxes and if you cut taxes you're cutting federal revenue. they don't seem to know when you tax something you get less of it when they want to apply taxes on cigarettes, soda, sugar if you raise the price of something you get less so of you raise the price of work you'll get less. neil who puts taxes on sugar find me that one. >> [laughter] >> it's a big deal neil. >> amy: because if you make something more expensive you get less of it. >> neil: adam i'm sure you concur. >> adam: i'm shocked that we're passing around allegations of

hipocracy in the united states congress here. i think really the interesting thing so. >> steve: so far the muted voices among republicans for increasing the deficit but more seriously, i totally disagree that the democrats won't play ball. i think they will play ball. the white house is going to hav- >> neil: who wins? can you get me a couple names because i haven't heard them. maybe donnelly in indiana the democrat. >> amy: you do have the problem solver caucus on the house side who said they would work on tax reform. >> and i think schumer is a ball player by definition. he will come and play when the time is right but by the way neil, the rebubbaly cans, the republicans party-- >> a ball player of all people. >> neil: i want to say this he is a good person and he assigns the absolute best motives to clearly politicians who might have other ideas, but you know? >> got a good heart.

>> neil: you could be right my friend. finish up. >> all i wanted to say is that i predict when this thing runs into its most serious trouble, it will be because of deficit in the republican party. >> neil: well you might be right about that but ben stein the one thing that comes through and i know you're not a big proponent of the tax cuts will create enough revenue to pay for them and there's very little in this plan thus far that shows if you're a big believer in that paying for these things they've come up with ideas to do just that, but is it your sense that this is going to happen regardless? >> ben: i don't think it's going to happen. i have the terrible feeling mr. trump is going to get blocked at every turn by the left and the democratic party and the extreme right and the republican party and by the way, the data is very very clear that when you raise taxes, you get higher deficits. i beg your pardon when you lower taxes you get higher deficits. when mr. reagan a great great man whose face should be on

mount rushmore, when he lowered taxes drastically there was a big economic push but by the end of his term, the total federal deficit had almost tripled not quite tripled but it almost tripled. >> neil: but it did generate revenues and republicans spend that money just as much as democrats right? >> ben: it did create a lot of revenues you're right. >> neil: you glossed over those. >> ben: let's remember he was in office for eight years and for seven he proposed income tax increases especially a huge one in 1986 so that-- >> neil: were they a lot lower when he left office than when he came in? >> ben: a lot lower. yes, a lot lower. >> neil: it was at 28%. >> ben: a lot of the loopholes that had been-- >> neil: understood. >> listen, ben is using a little bit of slight of hand when he's talking about the deficit being three times larger. the deficit as a percentage of the economy was smaller. i mean the economy grew tremendously under reagan so you have to look at it. it's like saying you've got a thousand dollars of debt.

i've got a thousand dollars of debt but you make $10 million and i make $200. i mean that's the difference a year. >> i'd love to make $10 million. >> that's the slight of hand that ben is using and a lot of people who attack president reagan. i will say this though and i agree with ben on this . this is probably not going to get done because charles schumer does not play ball. that is the biggest, that is the most funny thing i've ever heard that charles schumer is a ball player. >> neil: republicans are banking on him not playing ball. by the way do you know what else he is. he's a really good minority leader of the senate and he keeps regular order within his troops. >> but i bet he prevents those guys. >> amy: in fairness to mr. schumer which i rare liam, but there is an argument for him being the new york state senator >> neil: you don't have a sign for the principal argument. >> amy: that the tax plan would get rid of the state tax deduction. which chuck schumer is. >> it's against every republican s constituency but

listen even when you take that out of the equation, for him to play ball on the supply side. >> neil: i don't think charles payne i could be very wrong i rarely disagree with my good friend charlie. >> it's going to happen. >> neil: it's going to happen and happen by the end of the year. >> i think it's going to happen but it will be a shell of what we saw this week. it won't it will be tax cuts it won't be tax reform and we will breathe. >> neil: will taxes be lower than they are now? >> we'll breathe a sigh of relief and they finally got a w on the board. >> neil: but how much lower? >> not much lower. >> neil: the corporate rate will go up beyond 20%. i think it will be 22.5% ultimate mattly. >> neil: but i think we got into this talking about how democrats are making the debt a lot worse, deficit worse and a little bit rich but i do agree with the panelists talking about republicans who could hold this piece to the fire on paying for it paying for it. tax cuts by definition if you're going to make a big stink off

paying for them you might as well not offer them this is something that's a multi-year phenomenon and i think that it's a mistake to go down the road being being middle of the road. >> amy: i think republicans politically need to do it. i agree with charles on that. >> neil: but phil graham the guy who orchestrated the first wave with ronald reagan said ronald reagan wasn't going to play the class warfare game and he was simply going to say everyone is going to get a tax cut, everyone deserves the tax cut and off we go and didn't get sidetracked on these sort of class warfare arguments. john kennedy back in the early 60s was arguing with his own party over the need for that. i know a very different environment but he didn't let that argument get in the way of this and when democrats are warning him what are you doing here? >> amy: interesting we know from polling data that americans actually are not that sympathetic to class warfare arguments that they are not-- >> neil: i do think they hate the rich more than they used to.

>> amy: possibly. >> the rich are richer. >> amy: generally speaking americans politically speaking that republicans do need to deliver across-the-board tax or at least-- >> neil: they will but ben stein the biggest hurdle they says is this is something to charlie's point that he's right on and chuck schumer will pound is this fear that they're going to look like elites and deferring to the rich and all that stuff and that will haunt them phil graham says they should go full throttle and embrace it. what do you say? >> ben: well i fully agree we should have the tax cuts and i don't think we should be afraid of the class warfare. something we're dropping out of the conversation is proposal to make state and local taxes no longer deductible. that is going to be a huge blow to people like me in the state high tax states like california. i think the republicans should trend very careful on this. >> neil: oh, listen to this. ben stein, worried about it.

>> amy: but mr. are plenty of counties for trump who will also be affected by getting rid of that deduction and i would say the political matter-- >> neil: you just doubled the deduction. >> here is the tactical problem trump has with this. he put out a blueprint and did not negotiate much of it with congress and this is in these committees and they are fighting over that deduction, over carr ied interest all this crazy stuff. >> neil: it's going to happen. adam? your prediction? >> adam: i think it won't. i think ultimately. >> neil: it will it will it will to infinite. >> [laughter]. >> amy: because neil said so. >> neil: guys i want to thank you in the meantime ahead of the president's big trip to visit victims of hurricane maria is the media trying to make this you know who likes to be in control? this guy. check it out! self-appendectomy! oh, that's really attached. that's why i rent from national.

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business. >> neil: governor we're getting different reports from different folks. you're right there, has the american response been satisfactory to you? >> governor: yes, it has, neil

and i want to clarify these two points that sometimes that seem contradictory. number one, we do need more aid but the president and the administration has done everything that they can that we've asked them to do and we've gotten those results. >> neil: all right so i'm confused there you have the governor of puerto rico pleased with the president's actions on be half of the people to help citizens there so why aren't some democrats satisfied with that and why is it dividing the country at a time we can ill afford such a thing and why are we making a katrina out of this at the same time we're focusing on nfl players whether they stand or sit or kneel or just fall asleep or whatever. what is going on here? amy? >> amy: i think democrats are trying to politicize this. they are wedge issues touching on race and i think it's a way for democrats to try to then use their own dog whistle to accuse president trump of being racist that he's not sympathetic to the victims of the puerto rico

hurricane, not sympathetic to the hurricane. >> neil: he never does that with me. he agrees. >> amy: i think it's interesting that democrats keep invoking comparisons to katrina. why not comparison to the bp oil spill when president obama didn't go down to the gulf for days and days and was getting criticism and even the new york times reported the obama administration underestimated continuously the impact of the b p oil spill. that never gets brought up. >> neil: it's an interesting point. then you were saying to this she raises a good point, these other issues like the nfl and this and whether the president is doing enough for puerto rico is it meant to get the eye off other issues or what? >> ben: i think the point that i was applauding when amy was talking was that this is a dog whistle about racism. there's every possible chance the democrats have they will try to allege the republicans are racist. this isn't a racist issue at all this is an issue of how do you get aid to an island, you can't just drive a truck there or drive a car there. how do you get aid to an island

that has got very poor infrastructure to start with and now it's even worse. how do you do that? i mean, i think if the democrats had a real plan if they would just stop saying racism and say look we want you to do x, y, and z i think president trump would listen to it very carefully and faithfully. >> neil: charles one of the points they raise is the president should have known or people should have known this was turning into the crisis it was or is. what do you think? >> charles: this is one for the history books. there are a lot of lessons being learned for instance you can get 10,000 containers of oil, food and other things to the port but a bridge has collapsed you can't get it to a lot of people so the response has been strong so far, the messaging hasn't been good initially and i think that's where a lot of people jumped on president trump. you know, when these things happen people want to hear a sympathetic tone. bill clinton mastered that kind of thing like i feel your pain. >> neil: oh, boy did he ever. >> charles: there is that element that the democrats logged on to but i think for all of us there is a lesson learned a unique situation category 4

storm hits the island and we know next time perhaps we'll deploy the national guard sooner the u.s. article it corps of engineers to go out there and re make those bridges like they would do in a war torn country. these are lessons being learned on the job in realtime. >> neil: but you wouldn't know it from the media. rare to go to my colleagues here charles but one of the things i noticed is that in a press conference they were enraged by how the president was responding to this and not giving enough attention to puerto rico, two- thirds of the questions that took better than 45 minutes had to do with the nfl and not puerto rico. >> yeah, i agree, but who brought up the nfl? i mean, it was donald trump who created this thing. >> neil: then go back to puerto rico if you're the media right? >> but how about if you're the president and my one point is this and i agree with everything that is said here. first off it's very hard to-- >> neil: how can you we all have different points of view. >> no not really. there's an aspect to where we're learning from this. the governor of puerto rico is

not some sort of right wing trumpkin, right? he's presumably a democrat and so he's not complaining about this. >> neil: i don't know what he is >> i think he is a democrat but there's one thing that i think presidents do and you mentioned that clinton did well, and that's he taps into the emotion and he sets the agenda. trump set the agenda last week. it was kneeling in the nfl. >> neil: do you agree with that adam that the president compounded this? >> adam: there's no question he compounded it and in defense of the media and i don't mind defending the media, the coverage of texas and florida was positive because the administrations response was there and if they were just out to get them-- >> neil: why did they devote 45 minutes in that press conference to the nfl that they said the president was distracting from puerto rico? wouldn't all the questions be back to puerto rico? >> adam: charlie just answered that question, the media is obsessed with ratings and the president is obsessed with

ratings. >> neil: puerto rico's governor is indeed a democrat just to clarify meanwhile conservative voices shouting out on college campuses but jeff sessions the attorney general is saying not it's easy to think that all money managers are pretty much the same.

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>> neil: all right is free speech under attack so that was the assessment of the attorney general of the united states jeff sessions warning american universities this week launching a crack down to protect free speech as we see conservative voices shutout. charlie, do you think jeff sessions is right?

>> charlie: i don't see why these institutions which many of them are not even private schools and public institutions, public colleges can allow a sort of minority to force the academi a to accept only one point of view it's ridiculous and the problem is they waited so long. this thing is so, this sort of pc culture and this speech culture, it's so ingrained in colleges right now. i don't think even the federal government could change it. >> neil: neither side listens to the other, but can sessions risk going too far? >> i don't think so. you're right neither side listens to each other but on college campuses one side is completely shut out. allow voice, allow opposition allow conversations. >> neil: you're free not to go right, amy? >> amy: administrators are not just not taking action. they're actually inciting a lot of the violence and inciting the left wing thugs prowling campuses.

>> neil: how are they doing that >> amy: remember the professor of communications at the university of missouri where she attacked a student photo journalist and said i need to get muscle there. >> i went to the university of missouri. it was not an administrator. >> amy: she worked for the university at evergreen state college. >> neil: but she was an adjunct. adam hears everybody. i think a lot of people hear everybody so why can't you hear, you don't want to hear a speaker just don't go to their talk. >> adam: of course we shouldn't just allow free speech we should encourage free speech and that includes the president. he can say he doesn't like what people are saying. >> neil: i wonder how you brought him into it. all right, ben stein what do you make of that? when you were younger and going through the vietnam war and everything else and of course people were protesting, compare that theory to now, lessons learned then if we have them now , what? >> ben: in 1972 i was a teacher at uc santa cruz there were 1500 votes cast on campus in the 72 election.

there were two republicans me and my girlfriend back then, that's how campuses are especially in california. it's no free speech stallin is exactly the right word it's a very scary situation and this is how we bring up people to not tolerate free speech, very bad situation. >> neil: all right, on that happy note i want to thank amy, thank charlie. stocks are so good these guys are buying them right now with their own money, after this. my dell small business advisor has gotten to know our business so well that is feels like he's a part of our team. with one phone call, he sets me up with tailored products and services. and when my advisor is focused on my tech, i can focus on my small business. ♪ a dell advisor can help you choose the right products with powerful intel® core™ processors. ♪

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and get two months free. >> the stocks our guys are buying. charles payne. >> i love sun trust, regional bank, my favorite. neil: adam? >> charles and i agree. he have a regional banking etf. they have tax rates which could go down. neil: ben. >> spdr's, i've done well with them, thank you, god and i'll--

>> and you've got a book out. >> i love capitalism. neil: doesn't sound enthusiastic, but in the book he really is, talk with him more about that. the cross of freedom continues on the place for business. david asman. david: in the urgent sales pitch to make the tax code simpler, does president trump need to take a cue from the gipper? here is our president now. >> we're going to cut taxes for the middle class, make the tax code simpler and more fair for everyday americans, and we are going to bring back the jobs and wealth that have left our country and most people thought left our country for good. david: and now, here is the great communicator. take a listen. >> i'll start by answering one question on your minds, will our proposal high pressure you? you bet it will. how will the proposal work? the