tv Lou Dobbs Tonight FOX Business October 17, 2017 10:00pm-11:00pm EDT
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you there, lou dobbs. >> good evening, a number of breakinbreaking news stories, ms from a presidential address on tax cut, president trump will address the heritage foundation to make his case for middle class tax cuts and reductiontion in corporate rates as well, we'll bring you president's remarks when he takes the stage, also a big victory in war against the radical islamist terrorism and the islamic state, celebration in the streets of raqqa u.s.-backed forced have liberated the islamic capital in syria.
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we'll discuss what it means for the now shattered caliphate. lou: and nfl today they would take decisive action against the flag and the country. nfl players are meeting to discuss the shameful insults from the productive conversation nothing has changed as a result of that meeting in fact telling them they didn't ask them for a commitment to stand for the national anthem. we spent today talking about the issues to bring issues to the committee. >> in fact, the only thing the nfl has done in the past 24 hours is endorse a bill on criminal justice reform.
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that's right, the nfl is endorsing a legislation on criminal justice reform. you name it, driving a league inspired by the commissioner and the handful of the relatively speaking who want to make a political statement. our top story tonight, president trump about to deliver a speech on tax reform at the heritage foundation's annual president's club meeting. the president willdd address congress once in a generation opportunity to deliver sweeping pro- growth taxax reform for the american people. the event being held at the marquee in washington, d.c.. heritage telling us approximately 1,000 people in
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the room. we will be going to the president as soon as he takes the stage. and the tax plan reducing seven individual tax brackets to just four possibly, and the rates are coming down to zero, 12%, 25% and 35% if the force is enacted. it also seeks tocut from 30% to 20% and it begins to repatriate some three chilean dollars in offshore corporate profits but remain in the accounts overseas instead of being invested by corporate america in this country.
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scale legislative acteds they have to take to support the all understanding he was only accidentally the gop candidates because it was such a rank outsider so now mitch mcconnell has to step up to the plate, paul ryan has to step up to the plate is the time to support the president and his agenda, today it is tax reform. lou: i want to take up as well tax reform. the president, will take the podium in about 10 bhi minutes.
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-- now secretary of state and u.n. ambassador, and ambassador to united nations, nikki haley, are talking as if the president said, we're trying to stay in hire. this was a change of tone, rhetoric, and slightly disrespectful i thought to the president, and his remarks on friday. >> lou this is one of the issues i have spoken with president most often, i was in room the last time. we reached 35 -- recertifies, i predicted he would not recertify, that is what he did, sometimessed good cob -- citizen the good cop, and bad cop must be done. nikki haley has proven herself, i have not problem with her.
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but till irson, er son i have ne right now. remember he said, i'm not going to recertify, he said, and i may pull us out of this altogether. that is what i recommended. this deal has to be killed in the interest of national security. lou: turn to travel ban. the same district court judge in hawaii lifts his ugly legal head ahead, and blocks a president carrying out his duties too duto protect the nation. >> this is a farce, this is say joke, the laws have been clear and reiterated there is one individual who gets to decide who comes in and what standards based on national security. we vet those individuals it not
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a judge in hawaii or 9 district circus in san francisco, if is president of united states, and clear that supreme court shares that opinion and immigration moratorium will stand. lou: and one other development today, i want to take up with you, if i may, that is -- >> a big "newsday." lou: it is. we're getting it all covered. the fbi letting us know, that there was an investigation years, years in advance of the hillary clinton, if you will, explosion in terms of the fbi investigating russian interference in our electeds bribery of officials, with direct links to money going into the clinton foundation for the purpose of advancing vladimir
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putin's interest in quote, the united states. >> this is the biggest story of the day, i predict consequences of this story will be heard for years and years. sarah carter, is breaking story raan amazing journalist, from od school, this is pay for play, this is all it is. millions from a foreign government. lou: what is different, we've been reporting this story. >> what is different. lou: we have fbi sources that are releasing this material, we thought it was only deep state and the left, who were suffocating the truth, turns out there are strong patriots who have the ou courage to move forward, and point out there a great, great issue when it comes
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to clinton foundation the pay for play scandal that crossed all sorts of country, in middle east of the year -- most of the years in obama administration, difference it seems there is actually a basis to reopen uranium 1, and the investigation of that deal, in its entirety. >> a basis based on fbi sources, i have worked with thousands of intelligence agents, and analysts, they are great people in the fbi, we had james comey almost single-handedly destroy the reputation of that bureau, but there are good people, one of those people is going on record with evidence of pay for play, and people have to go to prison, this is the u.s. government decision making system, being perverted by filthy luca. and aira carter will give us evidence tonight, it will be a
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hum dinger, sebastian gorgone gorka. >> we're awaiting president's speech, quite a "newsday," much more ahead. stay with us, we'll be right back. >> president trump said he may have the votes to dismantle obamacare. >> obamacare is a disaster. it virtually dead, we're very close, we feel we have the votes. lou: we take up the president's battle to pass health care reform a tax cuts and more with congresswoman m imiwalters, and u.s. whacu.s. back forces have d raqqa in syria, we have the full report, more next here stay with report, more next here stay with us, we'll l l l l i am totally blind. and non-24 can throw my days and nights out of sync, keeping me from the things i love to do. talk to your doctor,
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the wildfires have ravaged state a wine country, one lawmaker in the state assessing damage right now at nearly $3 billion. joining us now congresswoman mimi walters of california. a delight to have you with us. these wildfires, the deadliest in california history, we are seeing some positive efforts, but it is a disarche disaster ar sense of how extensive the damage and what role the federal government could play for california. >> it is a tragedy, probably been the worst -- one of the worth wildfires in state of california, we're talking about northern california wildfires, i am in southern california, but in northern california he they e been much worse, we have seen over 40 people have died. they still have 88 people
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missing. as you mentioned, thousands of homes have been destroyed. in congress we were able to pass $576 million package to send resources to california to help with the efforts. lou: turning to congress, and all that have you before you, this is going to be a real test of the leadership of the speaker and majority leader to move forward the president's agenda in first and foremost is the budget. what do you expect will happen in the vote? >> well, in the house we did pass the budget last week. now we're waiting for the senate to pass their budget. which they anticipate doing this week. once we have both houses pass the budget, we will then move forward with the language on tax reform. and tax reform as you know is a goal was not only the president,
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but of speaker ryan, and leader mcconnell, to get tax reform, and relief for middle class americans, we want too det it done -- to get it done by the end of the year. lou: right now we have basically no understanding from ways and means, as to details about what the tax cuts will look like. can you frame that for us? as you understand it, and do have you a good sense of what is proceeding it not regular order, we're not seeing committee hearings, it is tough even with a strong chairman and a good man like kevin brady running things, we're not getting a lot of information here. >> we will get more information. i think that goal of the to get a framework that the president, the house and the senate could agree on. when i talk about framework, that is what are our goals, make sure we give middle class
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americans a break to have more money in the pockets, we want to make tax codes simple, so you don't have to hire someone, you can do taxes yourself. we want to make sure we give relief to businesses, we want to make sure that the businesses can invest in america, they can create more jobs, and get the economy going, that is the framework and goal we have agreed on. now once the budget gets done we'll be able to fill in details. lou: details are huge, among the bithebiggest is repatriation ofe corporate profits. some puf put estimate a 3 trill, some higher. but how in the world do have you any sense there plan would inentivize corporate america to invest in thetic and ex creation of american -- in the economy and creation of american jobs. >> we have one of the highest
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tax rates for corporations in an industrialize nation, the idea can key lower tax raties to bring money back to the country. they will' to do it, we need to give them an incentive. >> what is that incentive, that is what i don't get. >> we're talking right now president is talking about a corporate tax rate of 20%. small businesses 25%. he talking about for individuals, you know we'll take our 7 tax structures -- >> i understand the architecture, i am curious about void that seems to exist how will corporate america be incentivized to invest that money if it is repatriated. >> by giving them a low rate to make it feasible and them wanting to bring their money back to america, so they can
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create more jobs. lou: congresswoman thank you so much good to talk with you, come back soon. >> thank you. lou: mimiua walters. the question, be sure to vote in tonight's poll. should the nfl focus on game rather than political issues? we'll share the results with rodger goodell as soon as we tally them. follow me. on wall street today stocks closing at record highs, dow up 40. s&p up 2. they closed at all-time highs, the nasdaq fell a fraction, volumeo big board 2.9 billion shares, and the dow crossing 23,000 for the first time ever, it crossed it tweet, back just under the historic level. shares of united healthcare soaring 5%, reporting better
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than expected earnings, the insurer pulled out of b obama exchanges. a reminder to listen to my reports 3 times a day, coast-to-coast on the salem radio network. >> up ahead we await president trump's speech, we have that ahead and his remarks and a shocking report of a collusion between russia, the obama administration and yes, the clintons, we take can up with tony shaper here next -- tony shave ir,
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lou: there the president is, he just arrived at heritage foundation dinner in washington d.c., president, expected to take up tax reform a tax cuts. and the economy, here is the president of the united states. [applause] because of it i hear they had to make this room larger quickly. that is great. thank you very much.
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thanthank you, folks. and really ed's dedication and leadership, and devotion to our country has really been spectacular, we appreciate it very much. i would like to begin by providing a quick update on our economy. i don't think too many people in this room will be upset. but the stock market hit today 23,000. that is an all-time record high, so congratulations to everybody in our country. it is an incredible honor to be here tonight, to celebrate this really wonderful foundation. just a few months from now, you will mark the 45 anniversary of the esteemed institution. for nearly a half century, have you been titans in the fight to
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defend, promote and preserve our great american heritage. few people have worked harder to protect this heritage, than ed meese a fearless defender of our constitution, where is ed? where is ed? thank you, ed. because applause and mrs.s me. thank you very much -- thank you very much [applause] >> a very popular couple, i must say. i also' to express my appreciation to the great steve moore. who is with us tonight, steve, where is steve? steve has been fantastic. we have
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>> we are thrilled to be joined by many distinguish the guests including senator joni ernst and ron desantis. and thank you, joni. i want to express our gratitude to the dedicated scholars at the heritage foundation. thank you very much. great job. everyone here tonight understands. to have confidence in our future we must have pride in our history. your organization is named the
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heritage foundation because you fun our glorious heritage is the foundation of everything we hope to achieve. you understand that human progress must be built upon a firm foundation of timeless truths. these truths are immortalized in our founding documents, and the most of important truth our founders understood is this. freedom is not a gift from government. freedom is a gift from god. and that is why we are here tonight, to rededicate ourselves to the defense of our god-given rights. we are here to insure we defend this legacy from any threat foreign and domestic that would seek to weaken our values,
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diminish four freedoms or dissolve the bonds that hold us so strongly and firmly together. as our nation has respond in recent weeks to a series of heart-breaking tragedies from the storms to the wildfires animals shooting iand -- the shn las vegas. nothing is stronger than the courage and love of the american people. this is a time of great challenge for the world. but also a time of great opportunity. we can unleash the creative power of our sit southerns and usher in prosperity for communities all across our land. but to achieve these great things we must hold fast to the values that define who we are as
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a people of and a nation. everyone here tonight is united by the same enduring beliefs. we believe that the constitution is the greatest political document in human history. and that judges should interpret the constitution as written. [cheers and applause] we believe we should preserve our history, not tear it down. now they are even trying to destroy statues of christopher columbus. what's next? it has to be stopped. it's heritage. we believe that america is a nation of opportunity because we are a nation of laws. we support the incredible men and women of law enforcement.
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we believe that our great american flag should be treated with reverence and respect, and young americans should be taught to love our country, honor our an them and proudly recite the pledge of allegiance. we believe that strong nations must have strong borders. and that our most of important job is to serve the needs of america and the american people. that includes common sense reforms like cracking down on sanctuary cities, ending catch and release, and very importantly ending chain migration. the loyal hard working citizens of our country deserve a
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government that shows them the same loyalty in return. finally we believe that the basis for international security and peace is mutual cooperation among you independent and sovereign nations. this is the message i delivered in my address to the united nations. i told the leaders in that hall that just like i accept and we all understand this, and they finally understand it, because there was a great misunderstanding, that just like i expect them to put the needs of their countries first, i will always put the needs of our country first. [cheers and applause] that is why we are withdrawing from one-sided international deals like the trans-pacific
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partnership and the paris accord. devastating to our country if we had gone into those deals. my administration is working to strengthen old alliances and form new interests and alliances based on shared gold goals. we have increased defense spending. you saw that just last week. because as ronald reagan said, we believe in peace through strength. we made historic strides in the fight against isis, dealing them one brutal defeat after another. we are confronting dangerous regimes from north korea to iran. last week i announced our
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strategy to insure the iranian dictatorship never acquires a nuclear weapon. and we i also canceled the last administration's one-sided deal with the communist cuban regime. we won't lift sanctions until political and religious freedoms are restored for the cuban people. at the same time we are confronting the socialist oppression of the maduro regime. the problem in venezuela is note that socialism has been poorly implemented, but socialism has been faithfully implemented. we stand in solidarity with the people of venezuela in their
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struggle for freedom. hereby in america we are strengthening our own freedom by appointing judges to the bench who will support and defend the constitution of the united states. with your help we have not only nominated but confirmed the new supreme court justice who is doing a spectacular job, kneel l gorsuch. we have taken action to repeal the epa's so-called clean power plan and we ended finally the war on clean, beautiful coal. people going back to work. they are going back to work. over the last 9 months we removed job-killing regulations at a record pace.
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in 9 months we have done more they say than any president in history. and we are 9 months. and there is more to come. we have statutory guidelines. we have to go by a period of time. but there is much more to come. i believe in regulation. but it has to be limited to what we need. we want clean air and clean water by the has to be fair. and we also want, by the way, jobs. and our regulatory reductions are going to put more americans back to work and more lobbyists out of work. i don't know, there could be more lobbyists in this room. which is why regulatory reform is a crucial part of our drive to drain the swamp. on the economic front, we are upholding the legacy of america's greatest presidents from washington to jackson to
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lincoln by defending american industry and defending our american workers. we want more products stamped with those beautiful words and letters, made in the u.s.a. to restore opportunity and freedom we must continue our campaign to repeal and replace the disaster known as obamacare. and i have been hearing that phrase for 7 years. 7 years i have been hearing it and so have you. maybe when i sit down at that desk the first day, january 20, i'll have something to sign. not as easy as we thought. but we'll get it done, you watch. i'm pleased the democrats have
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finally responded to my call for them to take responsibility for their obamacare disaster. and work with republicans to provide much-needed relief to the american people. while i commend the bipartisan work done by senators alexander and murray, i continue to believe congress must find a solution to the obamacare mess instead of providing bailouts to insurance companies. after many, many years of government obstructing job creation, you have now an administration that promotes job creation and celebrates the dignity of work. unemployment -- this is something so important -- unemployment is almost at a 7-year low.
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gdp growth reached 3.2% last square and people said it would take years to get there. manufacturing confidence is at record levels, but our country and our economy cannot take off like they should and like it should unless we transform america's outdated com -- complx and extremely burdensome tax code. the great heritage foundation has been at the center of several incredible tax cuts in american history. working closely with the heritage foundation ronald reagan worked with them to reduce taxes in the 1980s. at the heart of our plan is a
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tax cut for everyday working americans. the first $12,000 for a single individual and the first $24,000 for a married couple will be tax-free. we are nearly doubling the zero break the and we substantially increased the child tax credit for working families which many people want, including my daughter ivanka. to save americans precious time and money we are simplifying the tax code under our framework the vast majority of families will be able to file their taxes on a single sheet of paper.
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in addition to simplification is reducing our crushing business tax so that we can restore america's competitive edge. today our business tax rate is 60% higher than our average economic competitor. this is a giant self-inflicted economic wound. that's why we'll cut the corporate tax rate from 35% all the way down to not more than 20%, way below our average competition out there in this very competitive world. and for small businesses that file taxes as sole pro pry towards, s corporations or partnerships, we'll cap the top tax rate at a maximum of 25%.
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with a tremendous reduction from what it is, and i will tell you it's the biggest reduction in taxes in the history of this country. for the more than 30 million american small businesses in america, our plan cuts their top marginal rate by 40%. this will be the lowest top marginal rate, income tax rate, for small and medium size businesses in more than 80 years. to maximize job creation for at least the next five years, we'll allow our companies and our manufacturers to expense the full cost of new equipment in the year they buy it. one year, it's written off.
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makes we want to go immediately back into business. and yes we are ending the horrible and very unfair estate tax, also known as the death tax. finally, we are going to bring back trillions of dollars currently parked overseas. you look at the money that can't come back into our country. i have been saying for years it's 2.5 trillion dollars. republicans want it back. democrats want it back, and they have for a long time. but they have never been able to make a deal. we are putting that in our tax plan. i think it will be over $3 trillion, it could be substantially more than that. if i'm saying $2.5 trillion and
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i have been saying it for a long time. we now it's a lot more now. i think it's substantially over $3 trillion that will be brought back in our plan and put to work in our country, not some other country. our framework provides a one-time low tax on profits currently sitting offshore so this money can come back right where it started, come back home to america where it belongs. and believe me, we can use it in this country. we need it so badly for so many things including infrastructure which we'll also be doing. we'll eliminate the penalty on bringing home future earnings. my council of economic advisors estimate this change along with a lower business tax rate will likely gift typical american
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household around a $4,000 pay raise. that's money that will be spent in our economy. our tax plan will insure that companies stay in america, grow in america, and hire in america. we'll lift our people from welfare to work, from dependence to independence, and from poverty to total beautiful prosperity. which is why we need the help of the hair phage foundation and everyone here -- 69 heritage foundation to get our tax cuts through the house, through the senate and to my desk for signature.
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so you have got to call up your local senator and say, senator, don't give him a hard time. don't give him a hard time. if we get the republicans we need, which is virtually every single one of them, because that's what we need, we'll get that largest tax cut in the history of our country and you will see things happen like have never happened before. we'll have employment, we'll have jobs, we'll have companies moving back into our country, and we certainly won't have companies leaving anymore. that i can tell you. get your senator, call your congressman. you don't have to call ron. i think ron's so kay. ron's good. most of of them are good. i think we'll get there, ron is
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incredible. let's give our country the best christmas present of all. massive tax relief. and speak of christmas, yes? you want to hear it? speaking -- i'm talking about christmas. i will give you a bigger christmas present. you will be saying merry christmas again. you will say merry christmas. you know, you go to the stores, and they have the red walls and the snow and they even have the sleigh and the whole thing. they don't have merry christmas. they don't have merry christmas. i want them to say, merry christmas, everybody, happy new year, happy holidays. but i want merry christmas. it's happening already. you know it. you know it's happening again.
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this our chance to truly make a difference. this our opportunity to unleash a new middle class miracle. this is our once in a generation opportunity to revita to re -- e our economy and renew the american dream. the heritage foundation can once again help make history by helping to take this incredible idea, this proven idea, this tax cut, making it a reality for millions and millions of patriotic americans. we know when the hard working people of this country huddle in the break room at the rest stop or at the ends of a long shift, they take pride in knowing the projects they work and the
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products they make aren't just building business, they are building familiesen communities and most of of all, they are building this nation we all love so much. the fact is, the soul of a country is found in its people. and we owe it to our citizens to provide them with a future of opportunity where they can earn a living with dignity and purpose. we want every parent to be able to care for their children, and we want every child to know a future opportunity and we want them to have security and we want them to have hope. we have it in our power to build this future together, and we'll build upon the firm foundation of our great american heritage. as long as we remember who we
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are, and what we are fighting for, then we will never ever fail. and as long as we have pride in our country, confidence in our future and faith in our god, then our best days are yet to come. our values will endure, our communities will flourish, our people will prosper, and america, the land we love, will thrive as never ever before. thank you to the heritage foundation. [cheers and applause] thank you very much.
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thank you very much. thank you very much. thank you to the heritage foundation and thank you to everyone here tonight. thank you to every american whose hard work and patriotism makes your country run. and again god bless you all, and god bless the united states of america. thank you all. thank you. [cheers and applause] [♪] lou: president trump urging his audience members of the heritage foundation to help him pass what he calls the largest tax cut in american history. and the president making it clear that that is precisely
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what is required for i think he said big beautiful prosperity for all americans. joining us to assess the speech and the prospects for the tax cuts, the greatest in american history. "washington times" opinion editor charlie hurt. and mollie hemingway. mollie, your thoughts on the president's speech and the her situation he brought to that crowd. mollie: it's a great location for a speech. the mayor take foundation cares about the founding. >> i deals of the country. they also care about tax policy that makes sense for the country. it was a well-timed speech. the president and his team have been doing an actual rollout on this plan of having tax reform and tax relief. there is more consistency on the messaging on this.
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just the emphasis on how corporate tax relief. other countries where there are lower taxes it helps the economy. lou: your thoughts, charlie? charlie: one of the things this president doesn't get nearly as much credit as he deserves is the quality of the speeches he's giving. this is a perfect example of this. he goes off script and starts talking about christmas and the christopher columbus statues. people love hearing that. they love it when he goes off script it's a very dangerous thing sometimes. but when he talks about something when he said at the end, when we remember who we are and what we are fighting for, that right there comes close to being what the trump doctrine is. if that is the trump doctrine
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and that's what we regain with this president, having completely lost both of those things with the previous president, then this guy stands to be a tremendous success. lou: the importance of the connection to the heritage foundation he laid out. this is a president who truly believes in the founding values of this country. he believes in the importance of our heritage. it made him and his family wealthy. it has given him the opportunity to not only become a billionaire, but become president of the united states, and right away, he is an element that will stand forever in american history just on those two ground being combined it was unthinkable before donald trump that a billion air would be leading the nation from the oval office. don't you think, mollie? mollie: it gets to the point of
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so much of his campaign and talking about the american worker and whether the american work has been well-served by the changes to the economy. this is something even conservatives have forgotten to communicate whether the principles they uphold, about the size and scope of government, how does that benefit the average american worker? how does everybody benefit from a policy that helps out the american employee. that was interesting about this speech getting to the hard-core aspect of how individual families will benefit. what the child credit will be. and other countries with lower taxes that helps increase employment and look at how in previous tax relief you could build job growth. that's something people really resonated with him during the campaign and they are anxious to see actual policies to back that
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up. lou: charlie, your point about the trump doctrine. there is something else that works here. that is a president who in the midst of what has been an economy that's growing at a rate over the last 6 months, certainly through the second quarter above 3% which we were told was not possible any longer because of structural impediments within the economy. the idea we added $5 trillion since the man was elected to the market cap of the equities market. as we look at marker after marker in this economy, things are moving in the right direction. but this is a president who is saying he not only needs to restore prosperity to all americans, but he needs to do so and to assure the future for them. that means to think ahead.
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and he's planning ahead. he's not waiting for the next recession to say we need to grow. he's not waiting for some signal from the fed to say we need to be driving this economy and giving people the opportunity to be productive, to gain wealth, to provide for their families, and to build, not shrink the american middle class. charlie: i think so much of what we see in the economy is based on improved optimism and confidence. maybe not here in washington. because people are going berserk in washington he time the guy opens his mouth. but in the real america there is increased confidence and we are seeing that with the economy. if you stop and think about the heritage he talked about, that you talk about that gave him and his family so much wealth, all those things that make america
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what america is, it's been under attack at all levels of the government. somewhat from republicans but completely by democrats. we had a president for 8 years who despised all of those institutions, all of the things this great country stands for. and it came through every time he opened his mouth. just having that replaced with a guy -- sometimes's hype ea hype. but he moves america and he wants to preserve these things and he wants to promote it. that alone does so much to inspire that optimism that's driving the economy right now. lou: there is a collision in all of this that is taking place. not only is the president driving through the establishment and the orthodoxy
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of ring i'orthodoxy -- of rigidt embraced by the left. and the business round table and the chamber of commerce and their h.r. department. he's talking straightforwardly to the american people. he's talking to mr. and mrs. america. he doesn't give much of a damn what "the washington post," the "new york times," cnn or fox news is saying. so long as his voice is being heard, he knows the messaging will be precisely what he wants it to be. mollie: i thought it was interesting the differences between his rally speeches and a group in d.c. and it is absolutely true that this guy is very good
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communicating foundational principles and his gut instinct is something a lot of politicians you would think would have good gut instincts don't have. what it means to be an america. a lot of people in d.c. thinks those things are distractions. i think a lot of americans understand we are in a place where we absolutely need to have these conversations in whether we believe in who we are as a people. whether we are special, if we have good founding principles or whether we are i ar lost and neo throw in the towel. lou: this is the president who as you elected amongst his 16 opponents in the republican party and hillary clinton. he was elected because he makes those connections. and he speaks forthrightly about
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his vision of the future. he set agenda for the entire presidential campaign. people forget thahahahahahahaha. and especially the suffocating elites of that good town in which you guys live and work. it's remarkable to see this man still have that authenticity, that vigor and the ability to say, you know what? we are going to get it done, and i don't care much about what you think of the way i'm doing it. he has in recent weeks become more constrained, i believe. he has refined his language to just for the moment at least to get through to some of the he athletes that he may have to do business with. mitch mcconnell comes to mind. but we are watching a man that is with a fiscal policy that's
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