though it goes up and down with the market. >> dagen: john your translation? >> john: i have no idea what he said. you weren't even born in 1987 what do you know about charles s chwab? >> dagen: very true. neil now. neil well ahead of tomorrow's big games will no decision from the nfl be the worst decision overall? i'm neil cavuto. nfl commissioner roger goodell wants players to stand for the national anthem but he won't penalize them if they do not. charles payne says that's not only the wrong play, it is going to be a very costly one. also here with us, kennedy, ben stein, adam had, charlie gaspari no is off this week and we don't know when he will be back. charles what do you think? >> ben: wait a minute we don't know when he's going to be back? neil well i know but i don't want to share with you. you're on a need to know basis, ben.

>> i miss him. >> already. neil i'll fill you in. charles payne on this and the owners kind of between a rock and hard place here. >> charles: no pun intended, but they punted. neil i see where you're going. >> charles: i thought they hired this guy to be the tough guy to take the fall for the owners to go out there and be a public face and say and do things that collectively they didn't want to do in public instead, roger goodell listen, the good news is that ill feats like the way he kept talking about only six or four players maybe it will fade back to what it was originally through attrition but they made a huge mistake the fans have already voted on this through watching television and also some who come to the game with empty seats they don't like it. protest anywhere else except during the national anthem. neil where is this going to go kennedy because most players honor that and stand for the national anthem but the few don't it will have an impact.

>> no and goodell said some articulated really important points and my question is why now because criminal justice has been in the toilet for a long time with a lot of disparity and sentencing and mandator minimums and bail amounts and all sorts of stuff for generations, and they've had a lot of time and it just seems convenient that colin kaepernick was the in to pus so you have to make sure if you are the players this isn't just an empty gesture but now you move on to something else. move on to action go and meet law enforcement, bring together kids from inner cities with police officers so they can find some common ground and learn to trust people that are trying to keep the peace in their communities. >> neil: adam, i imagine they had these the obvious stuff where the owners tell them here is the revenue sharing deal. here is the ratings deal. the ratings are down, revenue sharing thing for you guys is going to be down. we don't know what else to tell you, but that apparently didn't work so what do you think of it?

>> adam: there's multiple reasons why ratings might be down including that the public is turning off a little bit on football with this concussion issue and what have you and cord cutting i mean broadcast television this is a problem in general. i think goodell was between a rock and a hard place and he made the best of a very difficult situation. i don't disagree with anything kennedy said. that would be great if we can move on but he didn't, he couldn't be in a position of restricting the free speech of these players. i think by the way they will move on. they will find other voices for this sort of protest then the national anthem. >> neil: ben stein? >> ben: these guys are a bunch of big babies. they don't know what they're talking about, there's no institutional racism within america at all any more. if they want to deal with the free speech god bless them let them do their free speech thing but let's ignore them from then on and ignore them like they're bad babies and we don't want to hear them crying off in the

corner. yes there's racism, yes adam there's racism i agree. >> adam: that's not my point. of course there is. >> ben: but there's no institutional racism in america any more. it's gone. garnished. >> neil: charles payne is that the case? >> charles: i think racism is still a big issue to be quite frank with you but i disagree with adam the idea that this somehow dung your job at any mome during the course o you b you can protest. management has the ability and the right to say that there's a certain window you're allowed to do these sort of things so it's not we're impinging on anyone's first amendment rights and kennedy is right if they had articulated this message i think the public would have been more receptive and in fact the public will be very receptive three didn't do it during the national anthem. >> neil: kennedy the bottom line is that we've seen the fall in ratings and i agree. i don't think it's exclusively driven by this it's not helping the matter but i don't know how they could put all of this back

and i guess they start maybe tomorrow, we'll get an indication this weekend with the games and all but there will always be a stubborn few and prominent players who not to go along with what their owners are saying they should do. >> i understand but they don't have credibility if they don't move the discussion forward. if that's all they're doing, is their time-- >> neil: let's say they continue to do what they do and they kneel and/or sit. >> go to capitol hill meet with their lawmakers. talk about specific legislation and things like that and you know i understand that roger goodell feels like he's being squeezed here but at some point, you know it's a lot of empty talk from him if he's talking about the ability for the league to unify players and fans and people from all different backgrounds. if that's real, then find a way to do that because what he's demonstrating and saying that's not doing that right. >> ben: what are they complaining about? what specifically are they complaining about? >> that's not the point ben but that's not the point.

if they had a complaint, they have a complaint and that's what's at issue here. these guys are entertainers to begin with. they're celebrities and they can take advantage of that if they choose to and i agree that it would be better if they didn't do it during the national anthem this might hurt them but that's their choice. that's their decision. >> neil: you don't think they've weighed the financial impacts of that decision? >> ben: it's their decision but up to us the viewers and citizens of the united states to say it's a lot of bs and crap. it's that the freeest country in the world and the progress of the african american is made in terms of opportunity has been breath taking. you're a young man, adam. i can remember drinking where i grew up. you're a young man you don't remember that. i remember the progress has been made is overwhelming and i think we should be grateful for it. when i see the marines who fought, fighting giving up their lives to raise the american flag

and then i think of these guys kneeling to disrespect the flag it makes me want to van meegren us. >> charles: to ben's point listen, when you have someone making $25 million a year, crying about injustice, income inequality of racism it's going to fall on deaf ears to the person making 50,000 a year and the only one thing they have is that football game. now, we've made amazing progress and i'm the first one i always say let's celebrate that let's not refight the wars we won yesterday as a nation we've got enough issues looking forward including improving race and relations even more. i'm not sure this is hurt doing it i think it's actually hurting it. >> neil: guys i want to thank you all. we're going to look now at the dow and the dow celebration on part of the president he points to it almost every time he can. now it's good reason to because its been the financial window at his back. what happens when that reverses? after this. >> today on forbes on fox, the new forbes list of the richest americans is out and someone here says this proves we can't tax our way out of debt.

plus u.s.-backed forces kicking isis out of the stronghold of syria and this proof is beefing up our military is paying off. up our military is paying off. we debate it at

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>> president trump: the stock market hit today 23,000. i think we're hitting another new high today because this tremendous optimism having to do with business in our country. just in the stock market alone, we have increased our economic worth by $5.2 trillion. that's right, since election though. 5.2 trillion. >> neil: well president trump certainly loving this market run up but what happens if it comes crashing down like it did i don't know, 30 years ago this week any of you remember that? >> well i do. >> there weren't exactly people pulling themselves off buildings but there were a near record number of people gathering outside the new york stock exchange today to sort of

witness history in the making and the opportunity to see the incredible drops in the dow right before their eyes. >> i want to see what it looks like when it's in this condition and then i want to see the stock market anyway. >> we want to see a piece of the action i guess at wall street. >> what they saw was program selling taken to the ultimate artform, as wall street's very biggest players stepped in and unloaded multi billion dollar blocks of shares. much of it fueled by mutual fund s, hard hit by individuals pulling their money out. >> city and market analysts are refusing to even mention that word crash to describe what's going on right now. instead they like to look at it as a correction that works itself out but what they don't know and in fact readily worry about is how far down that correction has to go, how long it will take and exactly how many more people will be hurt in the process before the market does decide if it decides to turnaround. >> neil: you know the killer of that only two weeks later i'd completed puberty it.

>> [laughter] >> neil: where the heck, what the? all right, but i did have a better back then so kennedy, my hair notwithstanding that time period. you had great hair, enviable. >> neil: but it is interesting markets can go down, they can crash. ronald reagan i'm told was always very leary of getting himself close to the markets up or down and he had to be dragging kicking and screaming to walk the floor of the new york stock exchange because he felt that spooky affinity that would be he would always be tied with the market. it still did very well under his eight years but what did he make of that and the fact that the president should be going slow on this? >> well i think we have to be very careful to give the president too much credit because he will also have to take the blame if the market does in fact correct itself. if we are in the middle of some sort of a massive bubble, that could be-- >> neil: even if he gets the tax cuts through and the market still corrects or falls you're saying he would have to be

careful? >> oh, that would be a doosey, wouldn't it? the hallmarks of his agenda passed by this lazy bloated do nothing congress and we saw the economy setup for great success but the market still crashed. how would he explain that? how do you explain that when you run again in 2020. >> oh, he will find a way. >> neil: now see you're such a jaded cynical young man. >> oh, i'm sorry neil. >> neil: you were building legos i was following capitalism. i remember. >> neil: okay you remember my foot. all right, charles payne i'm looking at this and wondering should the president be careful with this? now, i understand why because certainly many in the mainstream media who don't say a good word about him oftentimes he gives them amunition so he points it out again and again, but it could boomerang, right? >> charles: it's hard not to believe in the next four years or eight year term he won't have a major pullback direction to deal with.

>> neil: how about a bare market >> charles: even a bare market is possible but i do believe he should talk about some of the drivers of this stock market. give you an example over the last three months wall streets earnings consensus on caterpillar has gone up 24%. in other words the wheels of the economy are already moving and i'd love to hear him continue to talk about what we're already seeing in manufacturing, what we're already seeing in certain industries, the needle has moved and that's one of the reasons the markets moving. >> neil: do you buy this correlation, ben stein, between what's happening on wall street and what's happening in washington? >> ben: i buy the fact that businesses optimistic again. i give a lot of speeches to businessmen and they say they feel the shackles have been removed as if nobody is stepping on their oxygen tube any more while they're in the operating room, as if the skies are blue and they can't point to anything specific except no more big drastic regulations. they just point to the fact that coming out of washington, the breeze is at their back and not blowing them in the face any

more and that is a huge huge thing. the business community of america is the main engine of growth in america, it's not as warren said people building a highway or driveway or bridge. it is a business community and when they start feeling optimistic, that means everything out of mr. trump has something to do with that which i think he did. he deserves a lot of credit. >> neil: so adam why don't democrats run with that with him right and say this is all of us. >> adam: the fact is we had a multi-year expansion economic expansion and a multi-year stock market run up under president obama. that's also a fact, so and even if everything-- which is what? >> charles: the reason democrat s don't like to talk about the stock market because they say it's a reflection of only rich americans. it's not a reflection of economic growth or job growth and that's why obama never talked about a great market. >> neil: yeah what he said.

>> by the way charles they may be right about that. i mean what i just said the stock market was up. the economy was up and people didn't care they were still upset about the way it is. >> neil: who do you give the credit to that to for that because of course we were coming off a horrific level of meltdown , i mean, we were bound to go up from there but i mean, who do you give the credit to? >> it had really bottomed out. it's pretty miraculous considering that businesses couldn't borrow money to get started, yet still people found a way. i give credit to individuals who hold the marketplace and they try and fill them and oftentimes with blood, sweat and tears because they can't get capital they certainly weren't able to get help from the federal government and gdp growth was anemic so i don't want to hear liberals selectively talking about this because-- >> neil: do you give president trump any credit? >> i give credit to the fact some of his poll thinks may truly benefit the economy. >> well the regulation cuts are

working. >> i don't think there's a direct cause and effect between the president and magical super powers and wall street. >> neil: you're not giving the president credit? >> there's correlation. >> neil: all right, washington is finally working together on healthcare but is this bipartisanship deal only going to bail out insurers on the back of taxpayers that can't hi, i'm the internet! you know what's difficult? adulting... hi, guys. i'm back. time to slay! no,i have a long time girlfriend. you know what's easy? building your website with godaddy. get your domain today and get a free trial of gocentral. build a better website in under an hour.

>> neil: we're told that washington is finally coming together on a healthcare deal but it may not be the one the taxpayers are hoping for or looking for and that we get

mixed reads from the president so supporters say continues obamacare subsidies to help protect the healthcare industry so on that level o loan it could be problematic but are we advancing the wall? what do you think? >> no we're not advancing the ball if we're still propping up companies. it is a gross form of corporate welfare. the president is right to trust his instincts on this. we shouldn't be giving them hundreds of millions or billions of dollars. it's only 7% of those insured who are being helped by these subsidies and there's also no real mechanism to make sure that companies put that money, that government prop up toward low income americans who need it most. >> neil: so i'll put you down as a maybe. charles payne what do you think? >> charles: i largely agree with kennedy but we know it's complex otherwise we wouldn't have this segment they have been taking care of this months ago. >> neil: i think if it were complex we would still do the same. >> [laughter] >> neil: you're assuming everything has to be simple.

>> charles: but what happened to repeal and replace? listen, i don't even know. they booked themselves to repeal and replace or come up with something like that that risks the health companies. >> neil: ben stein? >> ben: i don't have a problem with the word bailouts i think it was a great idea and bailouts of the big financial companies was a great idea and we have to have bailouts of the health companies that's a good idea too i just i go along with the jimmy kimmel test. i don't want people to have to run out of money and have their children die in front of them because they don't have any money, call me a bleeding heart and i am a bleeding heart, but i love love love the idea of government actually saying we're going to take care of the least among us. >> neil: adam? >> adam: well i think charles articulated it very well. repeal and replace was a bad idea, fixing is a good idea and that's what this is, and if to kennedy's point if it's not a perfect fix let's make it a

better fix but i'm not concerned about propping up companies. i'm concerned with insuring americans. >> when united health reported record numbers this week everyone is okay with a company whose stock is up 500% with billions in the bank. let make sure they don't get hurt and they're okay. that's not the way it works. that's what this is about. >> neil: but it does, to kennedy 's point it does perpetuate it. >> absolutely that doesn't fix the cycle. corporate welfare is disgusting on every level. free market is the only thing that will truly drive down prices and also allow for innovation and that will save healthcare in this country. >> neil: kennedy final word and i also want to thank you very very much. great job. the meantime up next charles has you covered no matter which way the markets go. some good individual n

neil: no pain no gain. what do you have, charles? charles: software data as symbol. i love the way the stock is

acting. neil: adam, what do you think about that? >> something that's very volatile, people should be careful with it. neil: the market goes down, charles, what do they do? charles: very tight trading range. neil: ben, your thoughts on that? >> i love dividends coming in. i think it's a great company and a great pick. neil: what do you think the market is running nonstop, dan, do you think that -- >> my very smart father use today say if a thing cannot go forever it will stop and it just cannot go forever. it will stop, whether it ends in laughter and tears it's a good question. i'm anticipating a downward move and i'm participating to eat bread, water and ramen noodles and back to steak and cavear.

neil: i want to thank, continueg fox. >> what i tell people that are worried about the debt, cut spending, don't raise somebody else's taxes to balance your tax cut, cut taxes, grow the economy and if you dent like the debt, vote to cut spending. >> senator rand paul arguing that you can't tax your way out of the debt and steve forbes say it is senator is not only right but the forbes new 400 list proves he's right, hi, everybody, i'm david, welcome to "forbes on fox". rich forbes, elizabeth mcdonald, sabrina, john and bruce jackson, steve, the total net worth of everybody on your new list is $2.7 trillion.