tell me? >> dagen: the dogs are a lot cuter [laughter] >> i would agree. >> dagen: thank you so much everybody. the number one business block cost of freedom continues neilll cavuto is now. >> neil: lawmakers very hopeful that a cut for some could mean a boost for all hello welcome i'm neil cavuto. the grand old party seems very confident that bringing the corporate tax rate down will pry business investments up but billionaire ceo mark cuban says not so fast. >> competition drives what i do in my business is a whole lot more than tax rates. worrying about what amazon, it will impact a whole lot more, companies and futures as will microsoft and facebook and google and other big companies a lot more than the marginal tax rate, so they're shuffling a lot of respects shuffling deck chair s on the titanic.

>> neil: it would be a cheaper titanic because the corporate rate would slide from 35% to 20% whose right to charles payne? charlie gas and we've got kennedy here along with ben stein and adam leshinsky. charles payne? >> clayton: i don't know why he made it either or proposition. competition drives cost and goods like that but every company struggles and looks for the lowest tax domicile. even amazon is looking for someone to give them $10 billion in tax breaks, lower taxes don't mean anything to corporate america or the bottom line and to the economy. >> neil: and obviously companies rich with this stuff. i mean, apple comes to mind. they certainly seek out low taxes. >> listen i like mark cuban, nice guy. it's funny that he earned his billions or billion or whatever he's worth 2 billion and now he wants to deprive other people of potentially earning a billion by

listen, the bottom line is this. innovation does occur no matter what the tax code is like generally, as long as we have a generally free market but you've got to look at it this way. if you do give people an incentive to save and invest with lower taxes generally innovation grows from that and i think that's what he's missing here and by the way a great debate would be tim cook versus mr. cuban because tim cook is liberal on most issues would argue with his analysis of that. >> neil: kennedy? >> kennedy: well why not a good environment creates freer markets why not have a great market create even freer markets because not only does that benefit corporations it benefits workers and wages go up and there's also more room to invest in innovation and hire more people, so lowering this corporate tax rate does more than just cushion what we think of as these corporate fat cats that people like hillary clinton have always played to. you know, smaller corporations

are still lumped into that and those are the ones who will hire more people and pay them more money and then the money they've got left in their pocket-- >> with all due respect this tax bill, listen, he would have been on firmer ground if he said this tax bill didn't give enough benefits to the small businesses which it doesn't. he would have been on much firmer ground if he turned around and said let's be clear lowering the corporate tax rate -- >> kennedy: and that the the senate version of this bill doesn't do enough. >> there's a lot of stock buybacks at first but the bottom line is lower the corporate tax rate generally companies will stay here instead of going away. >> neil: and by mentioning some of these off the chart type companies like amazon they're very different than some of the other companies more standard for the rate reduction of this magnitude would make a difference? >> adam: if what you're saying neil is they have such complicated tax departments that can go all over the world in search of the lowest tax rate that's absolutely true.

>> neil: i don't think that's what i said but sure i'll go with that. >> adam: [laughter] anyway, i think the political point that charlie, that everybody is missing and cuban is making we know cuban can't stand donald trump is that people are going to be disappointed if they think oh, let's lower this tax rate, that's going to solve everything and excuse me charlie got this right. it's no panacea, and people will be disappointed if they're hanging their hat on this. there are way more important things. >> adam that's not the argument he made. that's the problem. >> adam: i agree. >> neil: ben stein what do you think of this back and forth the corporate portion for which you were in favor not so much the individual stuff but that diminishing expectations here for that and that if companies don't hire more workers or investment plant and equipment you could make an

argument that better than full employment and balance sheets is clean and thorough as they've ever been there isn't much more room for that and they might just plow it back into their stock or buying outcome petty fors and temporarily cutting the number of jobs available what do you think? >> ben: what i think is i don't understand why mr. cuban a smart capable guy said we're shifting around the deck chairs on the titanic. this economy is not heading for an iceberg or sinking. this is an incredibly strong economy and prosperous economy. we have a labor shortage which is a sign of a very very strong economy and by the way, i would be fine if corporations used the money that they give back from the tax cuts to buyback their stock. that means the stock market will go up, that means peoples pension plans will go up, university endowments will go up , hospital endowments will go up. >> neil: fair enough. >> ben: we don't have a sinking stock market but i recent

calling economy the titanic. >> kennedy: the economy will do even better if republicans are finally capable of cutting spending. that's where you're going to be. >> neil: they're not capable of it. >> kennedy: but that would create the most hospitable market that charlie is talking about. >> ben: nobody can cut spending. >> part of this is the president listen, it is fashionable at this network to say oh, it's all those swamp dwelling guys in congress but let's be clear about where they go. they generally go where the leader of the party takes him. the leader of the party basically said let's do the tax cut, the personal side is insane you're essentially raising taxes on middle class people in new york and new jersey. >> neil: you're just angry they're raising taxes on you and you're taking it out on the president. >> in california, i just talked to ben about this he's not so happy and the small business tax

is negligible and by the way the notion of spending cuts generally comes from the president and does he ever talk about cutting a program? >> neil: well they can't do that we'll explore that on the cost of freedom but i mean you're right. they may never make progress on that but i am wondering about this view of the tax cut portion of this. i mean remember charles when all this started, that was where and i could even pre date this administration that was where the obama administration of congress was cooking up maybe a middle ground sort of a corporate relief that would be transformational and never got to that but keep to that, in fact the only part of it was going to be corporate really now we've got the corporate relief. what do you expect from it and we don't have it yet. >> charles: bottom line is i've already seen enough evidence that the wheel of commerce have begun to move in this country because corporations have got back to the natural knitting and that's grown their business, expanding building better mouse traps. >> neil: but will they continue

doing that? >> charles: its already begun. after eight years of being in a foxhole corporate america is back and eager to get going and they hire it and build factories but they could do more with lower taxes. >> i agree i wish it was lower taxes for small business which create most of the jobs. >> kennedy: amen. >> but you remember what trump did brilliantly and this is the best part of the trump economic plan so far is he's deregulated the economy. i spent some time with tim scott the governor from florida one night. >> neil: who? very impressive. >> governor of florida and he ran a healthcare company back in the day, and he basically explained how deregulation is a tax cut. >> sure. >> kennedy: that's also critical to healthcare because you have to get more drugs to market and more cancer treatments and other innovations that will help people live longer, better, healthier lives the fda has to get out of the way one thing the president does understand and that also un

shackles the economy and businesses and it's that feeling that the government is getting out of the way that i think is bolstering a lot of this movement on wall street. and now if you could have-- >> ben: feeling is a lot of it. >> kennedy: you could have the actual companion they could walk hand in hand into the sunset of glory and prosperity we would all win. >> neil: what? >> ben: feeling is a lot. the business doesn't feel it if the government is trampling on them any more. feeling is a lot of it. >> i've been told to shut up. >> neil: really. [laughter] >> not the first time i'm sure. >> neil: forget coming together. is this the new theme at thanksgiving dinner? you might want to look at the extra stuffing.

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>> neil: all right, it's not going to happen this year. forget the kids, is that what adults are going to be doing at the dinner table next week? a recent study out of ucla, so you know its got to be right. that politics could be ruining turkey day, politically divided families cutting thanksgiving short but get this, an average of 20 to 30 minutes in my family that would be the entire dinner they wouldn't have it. kennedy what do you think? >> kennedy: this is a great rou se. so if you can't stand your family for non-political reasons all you have to do is cut the evening short and say to yourself how great is america, whose sick of winning at the table? it's going to be done in 15 minutes. go ahead and schedule your tinde r dates now. >> neil: ben stein, i can't

imagine that this still exists a year later but i guess it exists >> ben: i, your humble servant who loves you and is your servant, lost my two best friends in the whole world who live in san mateo, california because i voted for trump. they were my thanksgiving companion for decades and they don't even speak to me now because voted for trump. theyon't even sak t me and it breaks myeartnd this is typical on what's happening all over the count.ry i have so many friends and relatives that don't speak to them. >> neil: can you say their names and we'll pay them a visit? >> ben: i better not say their names, but they're dear friends and i see it happening all over the country. you know, it's a very very sad thing. trump is a great guy. i don't know why people get so upset about him. yes you can disagree with him boheas a great guy. >> neil: but you know i'm wondering-- >> i wouldn't have called him a great guy. >> ben: but adam most families, you know, cut both ways

politically and my own that way. we all just get along and just eat food and even if there are arguments that ensue, fine. i even have family members who watch cnn. >> wow. >> ben: oh, though don't say that. don't say that. >> neil: but my point is, yes, my point is that is it really that bad? i mean can't we handle our differences a little better than just opting to leave? >> i mean, i think so. i'm extremely thankful. i'm extremely thankful every thanksgiving. >> neil: so is president trump. you do that every year. >> what a great country we live in and how great our country has been for my entire lifetime and yes, i think that we need to avoid certain topics to have a nice day. we deserve one. >> neil: i agree with all that. what do you think? charles: yeah, i agree with it. >> neil: not the way you answered. you immediately said i agree with it. >> charles: i love talking politics with 25 and under.

once you get above 25 particularly north of 30 forget about it because it will never be a good conversation. everyone is already has their own-- >> neil: that's a crucial demo for us. >> charles: i thought we were going for the 25 and under. they don't buy it. >> neil: [laughter] >> kennedy: and gold. >> neil: [laughter] stop it. you never know. you never ever know. >> i love having this conversation with younger people because they are open minded and it is refreshing. >> you know, my family-- >> neil: is it a large group? >> yeah, and it's my brother-in-law generally has thanksgiving, and you know, here is the interesting thing. i've always grown up this way and my brother-in-law is mostly thanksgiving is playing football , watching football and playing football with the kids, and you know, we stayed away from politics. >> neil: do you really target the kids or try to hurt them in

football games? >> by the way, my nephew is no one to mess with. >> neil: is that right? >> but, even my niece, we throw the football around we have a good time and try to do that but my brother-in-law did pass like judgment last year and said listen, no politics, just in case because we do have some radical trumpkins in my family. >> neil: i kind of hate that though when you can't argue or discuss things. >> kennedy: can you imagine where everyone has a really strong opinion and they're all interrupting each other and they all want to say something? >> neil: but has it gotten to the point though that we just rule out conversations? no talking politics because we might hurt each other? that's sad. >> kennedy: but people feel that way they will physically hurt each other if they disagree so that's why it's best to-- >> but why can't you have one day where you focus on not the stuff that we argue about all day here and focus on hanging

out. >> kennedy: don't want to fight >> neil: but the cavutos were debating money supply at thanksgiving. it's the most boring thanks give on record. >> kennedy: one year we had a one very station what do you want your future to be like and it's fascinating because when people talk about that you don't talk about politics and you think it's uncomfortable but when you overcome those, then you can get into politics. >> neil: let's move into funeral s in the meantime mac and cheese, ritz crackers you name it, i call it my food pyramid but it looks like wal-mart is raising its online prices, and get this the retailer thinks that this is going to help sales and guess what? it already has. i'll explain, after this. >> today on forbes on fox the senate republicans tax cut bill repeals the obamacare mandate tax and democrats say that's bad for america, but actually, it's great for america, they will explain, plus calls growing for a special council, we'll look at the times between the clintons and the russians. hillary clinton says that would

be an abuse of power. the taxpayers deserve to know what really happened. what really happened. we'll see you at the top o

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>> charlie: i don't shop much online. i don't shop really. >> neil: i kind of admire that. >> charlie: it seems like it's stupid. >> neil: you walk by the outside of the stores? >> charlie: thank god there's a clothing program here at fox. >> kennedy: you and jeff bezos. >> charlie: won't you just go to another online thing and buy it from them? >> neil: amazon is lowering the prices on these items. >> charles: but they have to do something to get people in the stores and they're doing a lot of other things with grocery delivery so on certain things people will be drawn by the fact that you can save money. ultimately the wal-mart shopper is about saving money. >> neil: wal-mart and amazon at these levels right now, with the broke undown money one or the other which would you pick? >> charles: i'm in amazon still i'm not in wal-mart i missed the huge move. they bought jet.com and i didn't think it was a big deal. >> neil: don't you dodge my

question. >> charles: at the very moment i'd stick with amazon. >> amazon is smart enough to undercut wal-mart online and people who are savvy to shop for their stuff online it's a different level of consumption. they are going where the bargain s are and there's not enough brand loyalty at wal-mart to go the mac and cheese is $ 0.15 a box more on line. >> neil: what do you do ben stein? how does this idea look to you? >> ben: it looks ridiculous to me because of the amount of savings that you get by buying for something for a few cents less as kennedy so happily said compared to the value of your time is trivial, so much much better to shop online, get it delivered to you just open the door, let the mailman and step on your dog and get bitten by your dog and just be happy that you saved the time. time is money. time is money, neil. >> neil: you sound a little eliteist there. adam what do you think of this? >> adam: i think it's a head scratcher. wal-mart has done a good job of

make long term investments like raising what they pay to their employees. this strikes me as a short-term move of shifting people into their stores where they have such a big investment. >> neil: guys, put you down as a maybe on that plan. in the meantime, i want to thank kennedy, i want to thank charlie , meanwhile here is a wake up call total u.s. household debt is near it $13 trillion and our guys have the stocks to pay a lot of that down, not all of it. can't pay it all down. we're going to pay a

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>> all right, the stocks that will help you pay off your debt. charles, what do you have. >> occidental, a pure play. neil: wow, adam. >> iwo, a basket of small stocks doing well right now, especially with the tax reform. neil: ben. >> the spdr's, stick with the index. neil: you see the indexes doing well? >> over long, long periods yes. if warren buffett thinks it's

right, it's righ il: this warren thing is borderline fixatnith you, i'm just saying. david asman-- >> nothing borderline about it, all right. [laughter]. neil: here is david. david: house republicans just passing tax reform, senate republicans adding a big bonus to the package. a repeal of the obamacare mandate. so, will all republicans buy into it? the vote is set for just after the thanksgiving break and someone here says that americans are finally going to get the break they deserve. hi, everybody. i'm david asman. welcome, find out which, bill ball, john tamny and rich, is this a smart move? >> yeah, i sure hope the republicans in the senate line up together like people like