spdr's. and that means a $3 saving on a $10,000 investment. >> ben, quick. >> any dollar helps, i'll take it and thank you for thinking of me. >> many, many more years, thank you, ben stein. here is dave. >> thank you very much. david: from russia to the rush on stores, which one do you think matters most to everyday americans? hi, everybody, i'm david asman, welcome to forbes on fox. while washington continues the endless rush of probes inside the beltway, life is going on outside the beltway. a record holiday spending this year and with those tax cuts, goldman sachs now predicting a boom for the economy next year, is that the news that really matters most to americans right now? let's go in focus to find out with steve forbes, rich, mike, elizabeth mcdonald, john tamny and david mercer. steve, doesn't a stronger

economy have greater weight to folks than what the mainstream media focuses on? >> absolutely, people are happy that the economy is picking up speed. on the russia thing is more fake collusion than actual collusion despite the hearings and accusations and people want to turn that off. they know that vladimir putin is a bad guy trying to upset our political system here and they get that and know he used propaganda online, on the cable stations and the like, but, they're focused-- americans are focused on, times are getting a bit better. david: they are indeed. and david, even a democratic pollster like peter hart, he had a focus group recently and talked to a lot of clinton supporters who were condemning trump on everything except the economy. they did give president trump credit for a growing economy. >> well, i think that we have a new normal, wouldn't you say? in that we have the first time, a president with a strong economy inherited, i might add,

with the lowest historical modern day poll numbers. there's a disconnect there in that not enough people are giving them enough credit to give him overwelcoming or a majority, if you will, of approval ratings. so, something is off. i don't know if it's because of the mueller investigation, or mueller investigation or because he hasn't passed one piece of mainly-- major legislation. we'll see if he can change it to confidence on the economy. david: e-mack, i don't think that they'll ignore that the economy is doing well and goldman sachs says it will do better. 2017, according to goldman sachs, is shaping up to be the first year of the expanse in which growth surprises to the upside. we expect 2018 to deliver more of the same. >> yeah, so does deutsche bank and credit suisse. the new normal, europe growing

faster than the united states. crabgrass growing faster than the united states at 1 1/2% growth. that was the new normal, i don't get what is going on with the democrats today. you would have better luck getting a cracker out of an alligator's mouth than getting our tax dollars from the walter mondale tax and spend democrats right now. david: it's not only the stock market which has been booming trif terrifically, but the unemployment rate. goldman sachs says by the end of 2019, 3.5%. we haven't seen that since 1968. >> i think what's most important about that 3.5% number, david, is that it's coming with a higher percentage of the labor force actually working, so the labor participation rate has also been increasing, that's very important and i think that people are starting to feel better about trump. because as low as his ratings are. they're better than his counterparts in france, germany, and the u.k. david: and john, we are at the beginning, john tamny of the

holiday spending season, but already we are getting record numbers, so, there's really a lot of good news afoot. >> well, yeah, spending is always and everywhere an effective production, people are producing more and they're productive and that's economic growth. i'll add that with americans, it's always-- and this is what steve said, it's always about economic growth. americans aren't terribly political people. look how many vote in american elections. americans are thankfully about producing things and let's end the nonsense about russia, how embarrassing and focus on growing. david: we look back to the clinton era and bill clinton was president and got embroiled in this controversy that led to his impeachment, in the midst of that he had a tremendous tax cut that led to tremendous economic growth. he cut the capital gains tax. >> whatever think of bill

clinton, i applaud his centrism. if the democrats want to get back, go to peace and prosperity, why would that be a bad thing? i think the economy is on-- it's really on a roll. trump didn't inherit butkus from obama. obama didn't have 3% growth in one of the eight years of his presidency. if we've got anything left over of the turkey soup of a tax plan and an honest to god across the board tax cut, i think we'd get to 4% growth in 2018. david: steve, even with a watered down tax cut, and everybody has to admit it's watered down from what it originally came out as. is that enough to get us moving even more as goldman sachs says? >> yes, it will help, certainly better than what we have today, overall. and what the republicans should make clear, this is the first of many tax cuts to come, after next year's elections. great issue, saying we'll do more, you like these? we've got more coming for you. david: david, if democrats don't join and there's no sign

that any democrat would join in cutting tax rates, they think that if that leads to disaster for them, in the mid term elections, will they change their attitude and be more tax cutters like bill clinton was? >> what's going to lead to disaster is what's facing the republicans and that is a tax cut that's favoring the wealthy and hardly anybody else. that's one. second of all, you know, in good times, you don't need to stimulate the economy per se. you just went over a litany of positive indicators. what we need to address is the wealth inequality, et cetera, and go for additional growth, but we have a lot of growth already. >> okay. >> and this president is not looking to work bipartisan. there were 30 senate democrats or more that voted for the reagan tax cuts. >> david, i come from a long line of democrats. i come from a long line of democrats. >> so do i. >> and reagan democrats.

my grandmother campaigned for al smith. jfk said the best form of fixing income inequality is work. that's the best way. that's the best form of welfare. we have no democrats now supporting tax cuts. when you had ted kennedy, al gore, john kerry, joe biden supporting the reagan tax cuts. i trust half priced sushi sold by a gas station than i trust the democrat's party today and noneconomic policies. >> (laughter) >> when it comes to jobs we've created 42 million jobs since '61, you have created half of those jobs. >> small businesses collapsed under obama. david: okay, guys, to john tamny, john, it's clear that the democrats are focusing on this class warfare thing that-- saying that the tax cuts are nothing, but give away to the rich and so on. how far do you think that's going to get the democratic party? >> well, i wish you'd get them

very far as if i wish republicans would embrace that and say, yeah, we're all about reducing the penalties on those who achieve remarkable things and also reducing penalties on those who invest in them. that's the problem with the proposed tax cuts, they don't reduce taxes, but i don't think it matters. i think the genius of this economy is inaction in washington. never underestimate the genius of gridlock for boosting growth. david: mike, do you agree with that? >> inthe corporate tax cut part of this is huge. the corporate tax is nothing, but a pass-through tax, it hurts employers and employees and getting it down helps the economy. >> guess who supported corporate task cuts? president obama and john kerry. david: and we've got to leave it at that. a lively discussion. coming up next, remember the former irs executive lois lerner? she wants her deposition sealed

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decade. that's a look at the news right now. i'm kelly wright. david: as we all know, the irs will hunt you down for your taxes and personal info, but don't ask them for theirs. that's what some critics are saying this week after former irs official lois lerner asked a federal judge to keep her tea party targeting testimony sealed forever. now, most of us write a check directly to the irs every april. don't we have a right to see what they're doing with our money? >> of course we do and is there a more screaming obvious admission of guilt by lois lerner than she wants her testimony by prosecuting conservative nonprofits thrown into had a deep dark hole and poured over by cement. in fact, there's nothing more corrosive to the idea of a democratic republic than to know that our federal

government has its fingers on the scale. david: and particularly the irs we pay a personal check to every year. david, the justice department admitted now that the irs did target conservative groups, there is apparently a fine being paid out to some of the groups, and now, they say that lerner actually failed to tell her superiors that this was going on. so, don't we deserve to see the details of her testimony? >> you may want to see the testimony. it might bring curiosity, you know, satisfy that, but the fact remains, a democratic administration justice department, a republican administration justice department, a house government oversight committee and three other committees in the senate and the house have looked at this and the case is closed. you add that to the fact that she could be intimidated as she was before the decision was made that the case is closed and why open the file when the

case is closed and has been investigated and the only result is that she might be intimidated or others intimidated. david: the fact is that the case wasn't closed when the obama administration left town, that it was reopened again and the justice department, mr. sessions, the head of the attorney general of the u.s. says there's no excuse for this conduct, hundreds of organizations were affected by these actions, they deserve an apology, but she is afraid, as david said, of retribution. she says, her lawyers say public dissemination would expose her and her family to harassment and violent and physical harm. that's what she says. >> she's been a target since this came out four or five years ago that she the villain trying to suppress an election. they talk about russians manipulating the elections, the irs did in 2012, but not allowing the group to get the tax rulings they needed to

participate in the process. rich is right. she's as guilty as all get-out. we should see what she did and why didn't sessions prosecute her and her cohorts, that's what i want to know. david: when she's talking about fears of intimidation and she mentions mark meckler, one of the founders of the tea party. i had a chance to talk to him. she said he called her a thug. he was kind of unapologetics. >> they behaved like criminal thugs, not like government public servants so i think it was a deserved comment. the reality is this, they don't want people to know because what they did is so bad. they must have said something on the record in those depositions that will make people angry and they're trying to keep it secret and that's outrageous. david: and that deserves to be done. >> given everything out of washington recently and all the lies, i certainly don't trust the bureaucracy there to tell us that this doesn't need to come out. we deserve to know as others have said.

by the way, if she's really bothered by somebody calling her a thug, she really should have thought of all of that before she did those actions that she committed. david: great point. and john, the fact is, again, you're big on ownership. we own the irs. they don't own us. therefore, we have a right to look into their papers, right? >> yeah, what is "the washington post" say, democracy dies in darkness, we should know everything about what they were doing. my one frustration with this is this is exactly how congress wants us to respond, to blame them. the irs exists to do congress's bidding, to reach into our pockets for congress. we should be directing our anger at congress. david: e-mack, you have spent a lifetime looking into the irs, looking into the way they operate, what they do. did they feel unaccountable to us? >> you know, it's interesting. i've been studying them and reporting them since the '80s and testifying before congress about the abuse of taxpayers.

irs doesn't like what congress is asking them to do. this echelon asking them to get into pockets. i don't agree with vigilante justice. i don't want to see lois lerner physically attacked and that's wrong. and the tea party says, the irs is a collector for bigger government. a danger since fdr using the irs to go against your opponents and never should have gotten into that. david: the cashin' in gangs. trish, what have you got. >> geraldo: north korea back on the list of state sponsors of terrorism. will this get them to halt their nuclear ambitions. plus, what was just found inside the g.o.p. tax bill that could mean a lot of illegal immigrants won't get a tax refund. see you at 11:30. david: we'll be watching. thank you.

first, amazon setting up a secret cloud for u.s. intel agencies. now, you think the forbes gang would like a private company handling that, but think again. details coming up.

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comcast business outmaneuver. >> jeff bezos' amazon launching a new cloud service to help intel agencies host their secret materials. do we really want the private market to handle top secret material? >> david, we absolutely do. this cloud is making the intelligence community a lot more efficient.

this is going to work out a lot better than if the government was having its own infrastructure handle this stuff. david: and john, you think that the private sector handles things better than the government. what about this? >> i don't like that because amazon is too important of a company. government spending cripples good companies simply because government spending does not represent the market, it sends them-- has them doing things they wouldn't normally do in a free market. amazon should stay away. david: rich, what do you think? >> i think china and its military technology is a great threat to the united states going forward and if we don't have the best players on the field, you know, we're going to lose that race, a race we can't afford to lose and companies are doing the best predictive analytics and stuff like that. david: should we trust the private company with this information. >> it's a question, hacked,

irs, pentagon, state department, i'm leary of it, but how pourous the government has been with data. david: that's true, there's history with government contracting out to private services, right? >> that's exactly what i was going to point out and from policing the streets to building roads, et cetera, and i think this is a viable public-private partnership to ensure that we're providing for the best in our national security. why not work together and bring the best minds together in doing that, rather than working in silos? >> and steve, i would hasten to add for those who have forgotten. sometimes the government doesn't handle top secret information that well, just ask hillary clinton. >> yes, and lizzie is right about the hacking going on.

and millions have information into the hand of the chinese. and a company like amazon, i think they'll do a better job than the government trying to reinvent the wheel. david: john, don't you think that amazon is so imbued in the private sector? they have so well thrived in the private sector, they're not going to be infected in your eyes by the government service? >> i disagree, long ago, blackberry was seen as impregnable and it became too needful to survive government spending, that distorts businesses and why would amazon go-- >> is that a danger, mike? >> only if it's not an arms length transaction, if amazon was forced or coerced into doing it. i don't know that's the case. i think it's going to help amazon and our security. david: you know these people in silicon valley, rich, what do you think, quickly? >> the brightest people on earth when it comes to security and when it comes to the clouds. david: will they be affected by their government service? >> well, that would be a drop

in the bucket. amazon is a huge company. might be the first trillion dollar company. david: black friday, cyber

>> and we're back with the bargain stock picks and mike, after the holiday meals, you love to stretch out and you like the company that makes the things to stretch out. >> soft carpeting and a hard dividend. >> mike is right. it's a strong play, i like it. david: you like a mutual fund, why? >> this cap, decent names and double digits returns. >> if you're like me this is

perfect for your indigestion. david: everybody is so agreeable on the holiday weekend. that's it for forbes on fox. thanks for watching. keep is here, the number one business block continues with trish regan and cashin' in. trish: explosive new revelations about the uranium one scandal. a new report says a fbi informant warned the justice department how russia was scheming to gain control of the world's uranium supply, including ours. and yet, the obama administration still approved this deal. why did it? and why is this important now? hi, i'm trish regan, welcome to cashin'. rachel camp rach rachel, and gary, what do you make of the uranium one revelations? >> it adds to the inconsistence that we've been hearing about on this deal and