add them up and the top three technology companies in the united states of america are worth about $2.5 trillion. liz: multiples of russia's entire stock market. stuart: about the size of europe's economy, or pretty close. our time is up but sir, neil cavuto it is yours. neil: stuart, thank you very, very much. we're keeping track what is going on at the white house. the president is meeting with chieftans. have a difficult approach how the president deals with this steel industry and how predecessor john f. kennedy dealt with that industry. we'll get into that a little bit later on in the broadcast. it is fascinating. the president is holding a meeting on school safety. blake burman, covering all that. hey, blake. reporter: it's a moving target as it relates to potential announcement from president trump selling this one short. the commerce department came back to the president a few weeks ago, recommendations proposing potential tariffs for steel and aluminum products,

potentially quotas or some sort of a mix. here is what i can tell you, last night, president trump, according to sources wanted to make announcement on that front today. that sent a scramble within the white house as to how that would go about and trying to make that happen. however, now the white house is saying it is not expected for announcement of any kind to be made at some point today. instead, the president taking part of a meeting with some executives within the steel and aluminum industry, so a meeting but no announcement. now it remains to be seen exactly what action the president might take on the matter and when. of note, today the treasury secretary, steve mnuchin, president's top economic advisor, gary cohn, head of the commerce department, wilbur ross, set to meet with mnuchin's chinese counterparts. so whether or not this was meant to send some sort of a signal to china, it is a good guess. we'll see i guess.

the president did though, kind of set this up with a tweet today saying i quote, steel and aluminum industries, many others have been decimated by decades of unfair trade and bad policies with countries around the world. we must not let our country, companies, workers be taken advantage of any longer. we want free, fair, smart trade. president trump is involved with another listening session on issue of school safety including up with of the families who had a daughter killed at step man douglas high school on valentine's day. we are expecting either today or possibly tomorrow the president roll out some of his proposals what he wants to see in reaction to that shooting. neil? neil: blake, thank you very, very, very much. ron christie and elijah collins and finally colin mcshape.

connell, potential t del not all onhe same page with the chi dea andhose abroa who might be dumping steel on rhores, wilbur ross, commerce secreryta in favor of tariffs up to 24, gary cohn, defense secretary mattis, are not. that is delaying this. what are you hearing. >> good luck trading aluminum and steel stocks. i don't envy place trying to figure out what is going on in the white house, reporting back to us. it seems circus-like, for lag after better term. the president will have a policy announced and next thing there is no announcement. the best guess we'll see some move, order of magnitude what that move will be on steel and aluminum. the concern from more and more people what you talk to what the after effect this will be. esee through the prism how will other countries react, how will china do, how will mexico do,

but in this bigger picture debate about inflation in this country, pointed out in the "wall street journal" and other places at end of the day on all this, the president knows this, he said as much yesterday, the president is looking to do a trade short term for jobs and willing to give up price it do that. we'll pay more for items if we impose tariffs on any items. higher prices something we've not had to deal with are to many years. something we'll have to with in the future many people argue if we put tariffs in place. neil: i don't know how it sorts out. i do know the president's uncanny luck has been, every time he has a good performance and good meeting with republicans and democrat yesterday in the white house was televised, freely exchanging batting back and forth number of ideas and resolutions that could go through be passible, get 60 votes in the senate, shortly after we hear about hope hicks

resigning t takes all the thunder today. this is uncanny development that happens almost every time. what do you make of that? >> that's right. it is definitely the president's luck, as he starting to make movement on policy issue, you called it a good meeting, i think some republicans in the meeting do not agree. neil: they were a little surprised on couple of things. >> exactly. he said concealed carry wouldn't work. that is big nra proposal. back to white house's messaging strategy. they always happen to stamp on themselves. this was with trump's most trusted aide, because his kids and ivanka and jared, hope hicks has been there since the very beginning. i remember in the campaign e-mailing her early on. she is leaving. that is a big deal. she is leaving the day after admitting to telling white lies to protect the president, which reporting says wasn't the same thing, but that is just all swoops up the headlines and takes away from what the president wants to talk about

which is guns or potentially tariffs today. palace intrigue always seems to super seed the policy. neil: ron, where does this go? this would not be the first white house with personnel changes with increasing nature. how will this all work out? media being media will focus on conflict or focus on resignations. that is human nature i guess, but not much said again back and forth outside of the concessions all that, on the gun thing but there was some progress made, even at that meeting, even to eliza's point, rankled some folks. what do you think? >> hey, neil. there are two things at play here, from personal aspect this is devastating blow to the president. this as eliza noted she is been trusted and been around with the campaign and worked for the family. to lose that much trust hard for a president feeling increasingly isolated.

from a political standpoint you always lose staff in the white house. in our case karen hughes, karl rove, were very close to president bush, once they leave, you get your footing, regain the footing, move on. it will be sting for the president short term. long term i don't think this will be a have impact on white house. >> isn't that a challenge, neil, to ron's point, whether you move on? you were talking about with the jeff sessions tweet. if you're somebody looking at outside of this white house now, thinking about applying for a job for lack of a bert term, why would you want to do that is it? what is the motivation to work from the outside? can they promote somebody like inside, mercedes schlapp communications director? of course. longer term as you lose people, they are losing people at faster rate than past administrations have, seems it will be a challenging to fill those rules if a president blasting you about any subject as he has done to his own cabinet. neil: he had done reportedly to hope hicks.

the reports, eliza, you are closer than i am, he got upset about the white lies comment, now what she meant, didn't serve admin vision in positive way, and that caused problems. how much have you heard on that? >> well, heard that he was upset about that he was also upset about a few weeks back the rob porter, who was a high-level staffer in the white house, who hope was actually dating, there were domestic abuse allegations. hicks was close to sort of pr, trying to cover for them initially, that caused friction about the president. hope hicks and the president have been very close from the beginning. she very rarely makes him angry, to have the two different things close together, the president turning on her, expressing anger, i imagine was a newer thing. now, reporting says that it was not the white lies comment that she had been telling the staff before yesterday she was going to leave. it was of course the day before that, josh rafael, ivanka, jared, works with gary cohn, he

is a deputy communications in white house. he announced he is leaving. close to hicks. a lot of turmoil over there at least in the communications department. neil: ron, when you're working in the white house, people go, you mentioned i believe karen hughes and karl rove, they had been there longer before their departures. this is in the scheme of politics staying more with somebody throughout a campaign is a lifetime. but it is a different sense what is long these days, isn't it? >> sure is. with this white house, seems like we had a lot more senior departures than the obama administration, and bush administration. what does that do? goes back to connell's point. a certain degree of turmoil going on in the white house. why on the outside looking in, a pre freshal, a communicator, why would you go to the white house i could be here this week and fired next month if the president's temper goes. you need a calm ship.

that is what mercedes schlapp and others in the communications shop, calm the waters, calm the store, get the president back on even keel. neil: he is the communications head. >> no question. neil: you can have people come and go. set guy, right? >> tweeter-in-chief is certainly the communications director. neil: guys, thank you all very much. the dow down 56 1/2 points. overanalysis here on jerome powell, this time back to the senate talking about the economy he says is growing very nicely, thank you very much. wage growth contained but a lot of people tend to focus on every little nuance here, things are picking up which would be good news. as i remind you often it's a conundrum for wall street because too much good news means too high interest rates. they don't know where all that goes after this. with expedia one click gives you access to

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neil: all right. now it is the senate that is taking its sweet time going over things with the federal reserve chairman. you know the drill here. with the senators though, it can be even more heated. adam shapiro with the very, very latest. adam? reporter: was a little bit heated between elizabeth warren, senator from msachusetts, and d chair jeromeowell. that was overells fargo. as elibeth warren pointed out what theyad done whe they

cheated their cusmers and what effort the federal reser would follow bore wells fargo alled to grow. an exchange took place earlier in the morning, senator brown, the ranking member on the senate banking committee. sherrod brown is from ohio. it is about wage growth. something the chair said moved markets, there is no wage acceleration right now, not nearly what the fed would like to see, given the fact they believe we're at or near full employment. so a lot of questions were about wage growth and employment. here is what the fed chair said after that exchanges. >> at this point we have 4.1% unemployment and the thing we don't want to avoid in the, we don't want to have happen is, is to get behind the curve, have inflation move up, and have to raise rates too quickly, cause a recession. to prolong the recovery, the committee's view is that we should continue on this gradual path of rate increases which

balances lower inflation and low wages against the need to make sure that we don't run too far past the natural rate of unemployment. reporter: so, and when we talk about wage growth, the fed even before chairman powell, during chair yellen's tenure was talking about the slowdown in productivity, despite being at full employment, and it is impact on essentially not depressing wages, but keeping wage growth from accelerating at pace greater than what we have seen. the jobs report next friday, not tomorrow, but a week from tomorrow, is going to be very telling because in the previous report, neil, we saw wage growth year-over-year report the ad 2.9%. the pace of growth actually slowed down to 2.4% when you dove into those numbers. back to you. neil: interesting how the market respond. i would imagine better to a low wage growth environment, even though the higher-wage one would be more welcome news for the economy as a whole. figuring that one out is

anyone's guess. adam shapiro. go to two market watchers extraordinaire. is it your sense good news will be at least as it has been deemed lately, bad news in other words a big pickup in wage inflation which would be welcome with a lot of workers wouldn't be greeted favorably on wall street? >> the chief concern is rising rates and wear inflation is going. look at wage growth and the atlanta fed numbers, 3% wage growth. to put this in perspective, in november, it was 3.6. it is not even high as in november. personal consumption numbers, those are the fed's favor measure of inflation, running well below 2%. yes the market in answer to your question is going to be worried about this, but i don't think they should be. we think interest rates end up on the 10-year treasury around 2.9% at the end of the year,

which is about where it is now. so i think as we get through the year, we'll see these fears start to calm down, and market will start to calm down. neil: if we get past 3% on ten year note, it's a matter of time, what do you think happens, what do the markets do? >> i think markets, depends how it happens. i think we'll hit 3% next few months as micro effects of the tax cut kick in. i do think it will be temporary. we have secular overhang which is technology, and making it impossible for pricing to go up and wages to go up especially for less-he had kayed workers. but you do have this micro pressure right now. i think if that occurs, it just makes equities more expensive in a relative sense. so i think what you need to prepare for is, a new normal, which is high volatility, lower overall rates of return on stocks for the next 10 years, double digits for the last 10 years. probably unlikely. it is probably single digits.

mid to higher, 6 to 8% equity returns for the next 10 years, with much higher volatility we've seen. that is because interest rates are higher. neil: i got you. this volatility, whatever shown across the board in all sectors. i guess that is the new normal, returning to what was the usual old normal but for a lot of investors it scares them off. what do you tell them? >> i tell them this is more normal than not. look, we were at, after the market sold off, we went up 2,000 points, 2400 points in 12 days. that is average of 200 points a day. it is really normal when a market sells off, after you have had a little bit of a correction for the markets to be volatile for the next few months. in fact, it wouldn't surprise me to see the market retest the lows that we saw a few weeks ago. that is the normal, that is healthy. you need to remove excesses out of the market. but i do think what we'll expect moving forward, this year we had

last year, with almost no volatility, was unprecedented. and that's not what we expect moving forward. there is a lot more uncertainty about the economy, about interest rates, about inflation, about stock valuations. we think the market is going to be fine but anytime you have a month like you had in january, up 7% in one month, you got to expect some volatility coming out of a month like that. neil: you know, joe, there are a lot of people looking at this, saying, well, you know the tax cut thing, they better bear fruit. already there is, a lot of complaining about companies that are spending lion's share of money buying back stock, not sharing it with workers, even though unprecedented ones that are doing that they didn't have to do that i'm not making a judgment call. that alone i would think would benefit the markets? just money companies are pouring back into themselves? >> yeah. that's is what is going to support the market for next six months. it is what happens afterwards.

we have trillion 1/2 expected increased deficit. you will have continued borrowing. this talk of tariffs, really dreadful for stocks. i think that is, if we go, tariffs are zero-sum game. so i worry a lot if the talk about tariffs and protectionism picks up, that is about as bad as story you could have for stocks. bad for inflation. in many ways, that talk is a lot more dangerous for the market than anything else. taxes are great for the micro story. it is macro story. interestingly enough, what we're telling people as i shared last time i was on with you, is to tell people you have to own equities but you have to be really scared with the debt side of the equation. i'm scared we could be in midst of unfolding of a debt bubble. in that you want to own actual debt, the actual bond or shorten the maturities. so i just tell people, equities are not your bigger concern. i would worry more about the debt side of the house. neil: but you sound real quickly, jim, more bullish in

that sense? you see these worries joe outlined but you're not super panicking about it? >> i think they're legitimate worries. i don't think they're right here, right now problem. if you try to time debt cycle problems, you can be waiting a really long time. in the short term, in the windshield, we have tax reform, we have corporate earnings that are accelerating. we have guidance from corporations that are accelerating as mentioned. we have record number of stock buybacks coming in. neil: all right. >> merger acquisition activities ramping up as well. so in the windshield i think we look okay. beyond this short-term volatility but beyond that of course, these problems are our problems. neil: i wish we had more time. unfortunately we don't but again i always like to make sure someone has optimistic view, a little more guarded view as thee two gentlemen did. we always try to present the argument on markets so you never miss that. we'll have more after this.

neil: if it were you, senator, in that capacity, could you stay, would you be humiliated and happily humiliated? >> i absolutely not wouldn't stay unless the president wanted me to stay. i wouldn't be under anybody's, i wouldn't be anybody's whipping boy. i wouldn't be belittled, because the president is saying you don't have any confidence in me. >> president's wrong and doesn't know his own interests. neil: explain. >> the fact is that the ig is the person who should investigate. neil: not the general? >> yes, inspector general is person who should investigate this. neil: even though the president says that is obama guy? >> obama guy, my foot. he was there when the george w. bush administration. he was an obama appointee. he is straight as the edge of that table. he is serious person who investigates things on the merits. and he is investigating other things on the merits that he will conclude when he concludes.

mike horowitz is a superb ig. i think pretty much everybody responsible person understands that. neil: two very prominent republicans say president's treatment of jeff sessions no matter whether you argue on the side the president is right to be totally exasperated by it all, whether you think that is right or wrong, is treatment, the reverberations, damaging the president with members of his own party? "daily caller" editorial director vince colignase. vince, those who love the president, still love the president, don't take any fault of this. those concerned about the effect this will have do and there is no middle ground but what do you make of the fallout from this? >> look, i think at this if the president wants to get rid of jeff sessions he should do that. he should get rid of jeff sessions if that is his goal. goes back to jeff sessions

recusal from all matters related to the 2016 election. i'm not sure that the attorney general realizes how extensive would have been. look how many investigations jeff sessions had to duck out of it. the president says i can't have my attorney general sit out every investigation of importance. why is this happening? jeff sessions trying to convince the president he is doing his solid best to make sure things are investigated. he is opening countless leak investigations. referring this look into the obama era surveillance to the inspector general. that inspector general, the reason we know about peter strzok and lisa page, all these anti-trump text messages -- neil: i was that guy. >> the inspector general of the justice department. that's right. neil: i can accept at face value what the president is saying about the sessions recusing himself but sessions did have it know to president's point about possible ties how he would have to recuse himself. of course the president never would have picked him in the first place but it's over, it's

done. it still hangs on now more than a year after the fact. i wonder where this is going because, assuming sessions doesn't step down, assuming the president doesn't fire him but just continues, you know, browbeating him through tweets, whatever, where is this going? >> at this point given we've seen this cycle before all the way back to when the president referred to him as beleaguered jeff sessions it will die down and subside and president might throw it out again. if you're president of the united states hold your fire on the i-f of the justice department. it will come out in moment or so according to all available reporting. when it does you will have to find out that whether the inspector general is doing fair one o unfair one if it is unfair and attorney general referng investigations ton ig unfaiy, ihink president blows up to tt. people are getting used to

that, they know tha does he damage relationsith felw republicans or has thatey k risd st move on? >> well,e will damage relationips with replicans if ty don't thi he has a credible case again the ig and the attorney general. neil: i see. >> if they come out of this, they think, yeah, the ig did an unfair job here, republicans will stick with the president. remember, a lot of these fights, they occasionally pop up at pretty inopportunity time with the president. people looking at jared kushner. a lot of news stories in the white house. neil: you're right. >> thepresident likes to tweet about this to get media headed off in different direction. neil: i was thinking that same thing. thank you very much. >> nice to see you. neil: we're getting a few more details. apparently the president is quite serious making good on the tariff threats for foreign countries that drop their steel, dump their steel is the popular phrase they use on our shores, particularly china, south korea, could be included. looks likes he is looking at

tariffs in vicinity of 25% for steel, 10% for aluminum products here. again we don't know the full details of that. we know aluminum and chieftans have been wanting that. he has been meeting with them today. looks like they will get their wish, maybe not today, but soon, very, very soon. more after this. alerts -- wouldn't you like one from the market when it might be time to buy or sell? with fidelity's real-time analytics, you'll get clear, actionable alerts about potential investment opportunities in real time. fidelity. open an account today. how's it going? - alright, how ya doing? - welcome! so, this is the all-new chevy traverse. what do ya think? this looks better than 99% of the suvs out there. it's very modern... sleek. maybe the most impressive part of the all-new traverse... is what's on the inside. surprise! what are you doing here? i've missed you guys. i haven't seen you guys in so long!

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neil: i want to go right to georgia republican congressman barry loudermilk. he has been in the news a lot these days meeting with the president on variety of issues. now of course waiting for the president to outline, i guess, congressman, what looks to be pretty steep tariffs on aluminum products, president says are dumped into this country. what do you think of this? >> a lot depends this is across the board tariff or they will be targeted. one of the concerns that i have we actually have some manufacturers in my district back in georgia that are

manufacturing produs here that those raw materials, or that particular type of steel is not currently produced in the united states in some cases, can't be. so, we -- neil: you fear this could go too far? the president will come up, if i leave you not ton rude but do you think that risk, starting a trade war on this? >> if you could, my more major concern for manufacturers that moved to the united states, especially in georgia, for several other factors, that may now have to scale back and leave. some. products. one manufacturer, the only place they manufacture the raw material that they use is actually in europe. so, right we're going to have to ramp up other production here. in some cases we may not. we want to make sure when this thing is tailored it doesn't hurt manufacturers here. neil: all right. thank you, sir. very much.

president talking about tariffs across the board for three countries including china. >> they will be a lot bigger again. we have the big aluminum companies in the united states and they have been very unfairly treated by bad policy, by bad trade deals, by other countries. they have been horribly treated by other countries. they have been not properly represented, more importantly, our workers in this country have not been properly represent. we'll build our steel industry back. we're going to build our aluminum industry back. and, i just want you to hear from a couple of the folks in the room. we'll have a few speak but, i might want to start with dave barrett, from u.s. steel. was a massive company years ago, got smaller and smaller and smaller. dave was with caterpillar, for 35 years now. 33 years.

and did a great job. they brought him in, therefore, been there a short while. he wants to build it back up. maybe you could say a little bit to the room and to the press about u.s. steel and, where they were, where they are going and what you think of what we're going to do? >> thank you, mr. president. thank you very much for your leadership on this issue and also commerce secretary, thank you, sir, very much. this is vital to the interests of the united states. this is our moment and really important that we get this right. the alternatives that commerce secretary presented were all good alternatives and we trust your judgment in terms of wanting to be selected. we believe that the leadership that this administration has shown on tax reform is simply outstanding. the elimination of bureaucracy is simply outstanding. we trust your judgment on this issue. having been somebody that has global views and believes in free trade we know when it is completely unfair.

we are not protectionists. we want a level playing field. it is for our employees, to support our customers and when we get this right, it will be great for the united states of america. we have to get this done. >> and for your company, and for your workers and for yourself, security of your own nation, you like the tariffs that you're talking about? you like the tariffs where, there won't be dumping on our country? what they do, they dump massive amount of product in our country. it just kills, it destroys our companies and our jobs. it has been happening for some years. and we are not the beneficiary. you feel tariffs are the answer? >> yes, sir. shipments that go on which you're well aware of, we call it the "whack-a-mole" game. it is time for "whack-a-mole" to end. it is time for fairness. it is past time. thank you. >> people have no idea how badly our country is treated by other

countries, by people representing us, that didn't have a clue. or if they did they should be ashamed of themselves. because they have destroyed the steel industry. they destroyed the aluminum industry and other industries, all car plants, automobile plants, moved down to mexico for no reason whatsoever, except we don't know what we're doing, so we're bringing it all back. john, could i ask you say a few words? >> we believe very strongly. thank you for the work that you have done. as secretary we appreciate all the work that has been done on this issue. we believe very strongly, that it is time, that the decisive and meaningful action to stem the flood of imports, inputs, imports into this country and we are counting on the administration to fulfill the promises that were made and to give us the level playing field to compete. we are confident, we have 25,000 teammates that always say we're confident they are given a level playing field. that they will help compete with

any company or any country in the world. all we want is a level playing field. today we're not getting that. the cheating is phenomenal. the amount of circumvention that takes place is incredible. just look at last year. last year, mr. president, imports increased 15% in 2017, over 2016. once we initiated the beginning of the 232, other companies saw this as a need to get in before it went into effect. worry asking for fast action and action that will last. >> i tell the story a couple months ago we put tariffs on washing machines coming into the country because they were dumping the machines all over the place. we had lost our manufacturing abilities for washing machines. now we have plants being built with a 30% tariff on. we have plants being built and nobody has seen that in many, many years. it is happening at a rapid pace.

same thing with the solar panels. we had 32 companies, which 30 were out of business and they were closed. the two were on mouth to mouth resuscitation. they were finished, they were closing pretty quickly. now the two are doing much better. they're talking about opening seven or eight of the old plants that were closed. they weren't even so old, solar panels. so a of good things can happen. the fact we haven't been treated fairly by other countries. i don't blame the other countries. when i was in china, listen, president xi, i have a lot of respect for president xi. i don't blame you, if you're able to get away making almost $500 billion a year off of our country, how can i blame you? somebody agreed to these deals. and those people should be ashamed of themselves what they have left happen. we're bringing it back. we're bringing it back relatively rapidly and we'll be instituting tariffs next week.

we'll be signing, perhaps many so of you folks will be here, when you have nucor, when you have u.s. steel, you have the great aluminum companies represented at this table. they have been desmaced. decimated in this country. aluminum say something as a great aluminum company that has been in business for a long time? how about -- >> thank you, mr. president. thank you secretary ross, and other members here, secretary mnuchin. we're in a situation where competing unfairly has meant there has been capital depression in our business, a lack of investment. and that lack of investment is reflected in a loss of jobs in america. it has all been a matter of unfair competition and we need a level playing field or we will lose our manufacturing infrastructure and national security issues that surround having a vibrant, capable, manufacturing sector.

>> we'll take care of the situation, okay? so steel, aluminum, we'll see a lot of good things happen. we'll have new jobs popping up. we'll have much more vibrant companies. then the rest will be up it management to make them truly great. if you could ever make u.s. steel like it used to be we would be very happy. i actually think it is possible but. you have a long way to go. i remember growing up u.s. steel was the ultimate company. today you have so many closed plants. nafta deal was a disaster for our country. the wto has been a disaster for this country, for our country. the rise of china economically was, if you look at it directly equal to the date of the opening of the world trade organization. it has been great for china and terrible for the united states. and great for other countries but terrible for the united states. so we're talking about it and,

two of the groups that i wanted to do some very fast action, we'll probably have everything completed by next week. we'll be imposing tariffs on steel imports and tariffs on aluminum imports and you will see a lost good things happen. you will see expansions of the companies. i know, dade, you said you would be expanding. tim, i know you said you were expanding. pretty much all of you will immediately be expanding, if we give you that level playing field that we give you that help. and you can hire more workers and and your workers will be very happy, they will be very, very happy and again what has been allowed to go on for decade is disgraceful. it is disgraceful. and, when it comes to a time when our country can't make aluminum and steel, and somebody said it before, and i will tell you, you almost don't have much of a country because without

steel, and aluminum, your country is not the same. and we need it. we need it even for defense, if you think, we need it for defense. we need great steel-makers, great aluminum makers for defense. so we'll probably see you sometime next week. we'll be signing it in and you will have protection for the first time in a long while and, you are going to regrow your industries. that is all i'm asking. you have to regrow your industries. mr. secretary, thank you very much for being here. we appreciate it. mr. secretary, thank you very much. and we'll see you next week. thank you, everybody. thank you very much. [shutting questions] >> unlimited period. unlimited period. >> 25%? >> 25% for steel. it will be 10% for aluminum. it will be for a long period of time. >> talk about jeff sessions?

>> thank you very much. thank you very much. neil: all right, you saw at the end the president detailing how long these tariffs could go into effect, unlimited period of time. he is talking about a up to a 24 to 25% tariff on steel products, 10% on aluminum products. what is causing disruption here is this was not universally supported, forget about within the republican party that is leery of supporting potential trade wars, even though benefiting all steel and related stocks right now, there was division within the white house. wilbur ross, a former steelman, commerce secretary for doing this. gary cohn, the national economic council chair and defense secretary james mattis, were not. we don't know how those differences were reconciled here. the president says playing unfair, playing unfair i will cite you. he has already done this, with those who make solar panels and those who make, you know,

washing months in this country. he targeted china and south korea respectively on those fronts. this is primarily china, to lesser degree south korea on this latest run but it is a growing, growing trade rift here that the chinese are not happy about it. in fact there is a secondary meeting of top economic officials from both countries going on in china, having nothing to do with this, but i'm sure this moves to the top of the agenda there. to charlie gasparino. i always am leery attributing any market movement to something, but as soon as we got confirmation he was goings to do this, we shot from 80, down to 160, now in the middle. market doesn't like trade wars, what do you make of this. >> not just markets is the question, or whether good economics. at expense being called globalist by our viewers, free trade generally has been good

for the united states. china buy as lot of -- buys a lot of goods from us. we produce less goods and services that are consumed across the globe, and if you put the services into trade deficit scenario we would come out way ahead. i'm saying be careful with this stuff. i'm also very dubious of his numbers. i think donald trump if i know one thing about donald trump he will exaggerate everything on the upside and on the downside. neil: these industries will push their pet interests, right? >> right. neil: they're telling him, the squeal guys, we're getting hose, mr. president and they're dumping all this stuff on our shores. >> his version, miraculously he snapped his finger, solar panels are being built all over the place in the united states. i'm dubious -- you need to fact check every single economic fact this guy says because he is usually way over the top on upside, he exaggerates the downside.

think about this, china became a world economic power the minute they got into the wto, really? they weren't moving in that direction for many years? they weren't adopting capitalism for many years. granted mercantilist capitalist system but they were -- >> you think president taking this tack, just by threatening it, it stops? >> is he threatening or is he doing it? neil: i'm just saying in light of what happened with the solar panels and chinese and south koreans have not responded. >> not yet. neil: not come up with tit-for-tat. >> not yet. that is the hope they don't go tit-for-tat. not only that, do they not buy our treasury debt? do they not buy our agricultural products, which we ship a lot to them. neil: you think it's a risky move? >> i think it is dumb. neil: you're a great student of economic history as well, but the last president who was dealing with the steel industry, dealt with entirely different perspective reining them in. the steel industry back in 1962 tried to force 3 1/2% increase

on steel prices. john f. kennedy would not individual. take a look. >> when we are asking reservists to leave their homes and families months on end and servicemen to risk their lives and four were killed in the last two days in vietnam, the american people will find it hard as i do to accept a situation in which a tiny handful of steel executives whose pursuit of private power and profit exceeds their sense of public responsibility can show such utter contempt for the interests of 185 million americans. neil: all right. very different world. now within 48 hours of that, you know, statement, was opening up a press conference, the steel companies rescinded the planned increases very different environment, very different cause, the president in that case taking on u.s. steel

companies that they were getting very, very freed ditch. they just negotiated a labor pack. labor gave concessions. very different approach. this president in this day and age, steel is fraction of a powerful force it was back then, is saying you guys it has gone the other way. you guys really need help. >> steel was a huge industry. we have to, you have to go back read exactly what was going on. they may have colluded together to race prices. neil: that ways had argument. >> that is illegal. neil: it was much more important kind of a timing issue but steel was a, big, big player then. not so much now. >> we do ship a lot of steel out. listen to roy blount. he said it, told the president to his face a couple weeks ago, talking about trade wars with china and tariffs. he was like, listen, be real careful here. they can screw us. we import a lot of stuff that comes into our factories that get built, americans build them

and we ship them out. neil: this congressman loudermilk from georgia, some of the steel we're talking about from the chinese and some of the others are special blends of steel we don't do or make here. unless it is clarified you don't know what you're getting into but this approach, this sort of, some would call it populist approach, the way he is handling guns and background checks and you know, conceal and carry, these are very untraditional republican ways, from a president who is not your traditional republican. >> not exactly free market. neil: your take on that? >> i have a problem with a president that is not free market, not for free markets. neil: he says he is not free markets because they're not free markets. >> you know what he also will say? he will say nafta caused detroit and hollowing out of the midwest, which we know, rust belt, is an absurd statement by any stretch -- i'm not saying it helped them. it helped other areas of the

country which it did. that whole industry was changing dramatically in the '70s, well before nafta. was becomings less of efficient industry here in the united states. that is bottom line. you think a bunch of steel plants open up in the midwest tomorrow? again i would like to see his, i would like to see a fact check on solar panel stuff that he said. the minute he snapped his fingers put on tariffs all of sudden all solar panel companies are opening up shop and expanding. neil: what is the fear your -- the fear is always when you start slapping tariffs, remember tariffs, government can impose them, americans pay them. if you want to buy steel but the fear is, that whatever you impose the other guy will respond? >> right. it could lead to higher inflation. because just, inflation is a tax on working class and middle-class americans. let's be real clear. they don't invest in the stock market which goes up with

inflation. they have to buy goods that rise in price while their wages remain stagnant that is the problem that we have. neil: on good news front, the haircut, delicious. >> you like it? neil: very nice. >> black and dexter. black & decker. neil: shipped off the side. >> wood blade. neil: very, very nice. down 156 points. always happens when charlie comes up here, we're doing fine and then kaboom!. more after this. :

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. neil: all right. the steel stocks are doing fine. lot of other sector stocks, including not for the time being, the dow down 155 points, things picked up steam on the stocks on the trade tariff slapdown from the president. he'll announce it in detail next week. but it accelerating, it will be fairly sweeping against the chinese, maybe the koreans and largely hit the japanese, wall street abhors the prospect of trade wars that could be reciprocated in any way, shape, or form. way too early to say that. whether the fears are realized. we're hearing that the chinese are not happy about this francesca. i don't know what they were going to do. they were not happy about the tariffs announced on solar

panels and washing machines from the likes of china and south korea. where downing this is going? >> well, like you just said, neil, may be too early to say. first, this was on, and then it was off again today and on again with the president surprisingly calling in the pool to hear his remarks on this topic and make this announcement today. something also that the president said while reporters were in the room is that he feels very strongly that without aluminum and steel industries, you don't even have a country really is what he said today. like you alluded to, we expect it to be potentially very sweeping and strong but have to wait and see what it actually says when the white house announces the tariffs formally next week. neil: we're getting word and you are more in tune to this than i am, francesca, there is division within the white house, how far to go with this, wilbur ross, a former steel

guy, and gary cohn and james mattis not. do we know any more about that? >> that's reflected what we saw today with again the president making last minute decisions on these about whether or not this was even going to happen today, and i think that is, again, a reflection of the divisions within his staff as to whether this is something that the united states should be doing. neil: the 25% and the slightly lower level for aluminum products, obviously the chinese specifically aren't going to take that lying down, especially after this other event. i'm just wondering what they do in return. as we're at the session lows, that's typically what markets fear, what starts as a salvo to make a point could turn into something much worse. what do you think? >> i think that's a concern here at the white house and why there are some of the divisions that you heard, but this comes after the commerce department determined that this was something that was a threat to

national security in the united states, even though president donald trump talked a lot about the great relationship he envisions the united states having with china in his era, certainly national security is something that's going to come first for this white house. neil: francesca, thank you very, very much. before i get to my next guest, i should let you know what's happening with the sell-off. the conventional fears of markets when the tariffs of any sort are slapped on one country is a response from the other country. tariffs by their very nature are inflationary, they raise the price of goods that come into this country, others have done it in other countries and tried to keep out competition. it raises the costs that raises inflation, and the government is benefitting from this, it comes down on consumers business ands that buy the products. whether you are on the left or the right on this, the fear is that it accelerates and

complicates things, for example, for the federal reserve. jerome powell speaking to the senate. i'm sure this issue will come up if it hasn't already, but the fear is this is the kind of thing that does not make his job easier if we have some trade war that develops and all bets are off. mark lotter, do you fear that happening here? >> i think the president is sending a very strong message since he first announced intention to run for president, that he was going to be on the side of the american worker. while we can have disagreements even among friends such as we're working together with china, south korea and others, there are very serious economic and trade imbalance issues that the president wants addressed. he wants to be serious about that. so you've seen it with the washing machines, solar panels, now with steel and aluminum. he's sending a very strong signal to them, it's time to come to the table to level the playing field, make these trade

deals and make the markets work for both sides and we're going to stop putting american companies and american workers in a bind because of actions overseas. neil: but doesn't this type of response to those actions put those workers in a bind? >> obviously this could -- this will invigorate the steel and the aluminum industries here at home, as you heard the company executives say a few moments ago with the president, it will send a very clear signal, if you want to continue to do business with the united states in these areas, you're going to have to change your trade policies, trade practices, stop putting american companies at a disadvantage to the advantage of your companies. we want it to be fair. you heard that from the company executives saying that today, that's what the president is doing, delivering on the promise. he told workers in pennsylvania, told workers across the midwest. i'm going to look out for your jobs for the marketplace. bring it back. we're seeing it happen with the

automobile industry. they're bringing automotive manufacturing back to michigan from mexico. we'll see that resurgence because the president is not going to let unfair trade deals continue any longer. neil: you know in the last three days or so, if you add up the 350 or so points we're selling off in the dow, down over 1,000 points, i know volatility has returned and all, we were clawing our way back to within 3% back of highs. now we're back in negative territory for the year. i don't know whether that is indictment or judgment call on the markets, all of the markets are concerned about the developments, but seems to have taken out the wind at the back of the companies that were enjoying the relief on the tax front, on the regulatory front and one fell swoop, boom, something like this. are you worried? >> i'm not. i think the long-term economic fundamentals are still there. they're still strong. i think you will get the dow back over a longer period of time, but it is going to

continue to grow. we just saw today, you know, unemployment claims are at the lowest level in 49 years. those are amazing numbers, the job market is still strong, and i understand that some of the strong job market with projected job growth can spook the market when it comes to inflation and those kinds of pressures. but we're also seeing increases in wages. those are the things the president said to the american people he was going to do. bring our jobs back. he was going to take the necessary steps so wages started to increase. we're seeing it happen and we'll get blips like this in the stock market and could make it longer. i think over the long period of time, that positive momentum is going to keep going. neil: you know, marc, i know typical characterization of republicans is the free market fears, they love capitalism, unfetterred trade, all of that. so when they hear reports of tariffs, and the industries

that want them generally they're in for themselves, i'm a steel executive and i want a break, i'm going to push the president all i can to get some relief. the same with making solar panels in this country and i'm on life support, i'm going to ask for that, the same with whirlpool, facing competition from lg, a south korean maker, i'm going to seek that out. what might be good for them can be very damaging to the economy. so what i'm asking you is whether this spreads. whether it's justified or not, i think we're saying it is justified. are you worried about this sort of thing spreading? >> i'm not worried about it spreading, if anything spreads, i hope it is in the world community that president trump is serious in dealing with our trade deficits and dealing with unfair trade practices. from our friends in many parts of the world. and i don't want to overstate

because in many places, that we're going to put our relationships at risk. no, we can have disagreements among friends and still be friends. this is something the president needs to look at. the president has been very clear from this from the beginning. if you are are on the world stage, the leader of one of our allies or heading up economic ministries that you're thinking maybe we need to relook at practices to make sure that our companies or other companies are not on the receiving end of this and what can we do to level the playing field for everyone? neil: all right, marc, thank you very, very much. they say that history not necessarily repeat itself but sure does rhyme, if you're hearing steel industry and the white house, and you were to google that, you'll come up with john f. kennedy, 1962, april. back then he was taking on the u.s. steel industry for willy-nilly raising prices just after his labor secretary had

helped negotiate an agreement that called for workers at the steel companies not to get raises, and then shocked to find out that the steel companies would raise prices about 3.5%. he said that wasn't fair, wasn't right, that was selfish. he made a point of announcing it to the country and within a couple of days the steel companies rescinded what the president called unexpected, unnecessary and totally selfish act. that was the president going after steel companies who were probably the most powerful sector on the planet. they're far from that today. this president, some 56 years later, coming to that industry's rescue, with tariffs that are rescuing their stocks, maybe their business, but not the corner of wall and broad. more after this.

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dow down 324 points. a lot of it picked up steam when the president said we're going to slap tariffs on steel that gets dumped in the country. something pushed by commerce secretary, but something that is not welcome by the new federal reserve chairman said earlier today speaking on the senate committee here that this kind of stuff, be careful. >> the tariff approach is not the best approach. the best approach is to deal directly with the people affected rather than falling back on tariffs. these are not measures that are consigned to us, they're really for and you for the administration. neil: all right, i think that is the fed chairman's way of saying, oh, no, you didn't. trying to make economic sense. okay, i thought it was a good line. want to get to "wall street journal" economics editor jon

hilsenrath. be care of what you ask for, you might get it. we're here now. where is it going to go? >> jay powell spoke out against tariffs on the hill this morning. we had the new york fed president bill dudley, i think he's in brazil more directly on tariffs. if you're charging higher prices on goods in the u.s. it could put upward pressure on anything made of steel on washers and dryers, that could force the fed to push rates up a little higher than they otherwise would be. so what we're hearing from the central bank today is not so crazy about the new economic policy. neil: it is what it is, and i guess in the past, the idea has been, jon, if you threaten it, sometimes that's good enough. and other presidents have done just that, not unprecedented but they're usually short lived events. by that i mean either the country they're targeting or countries ease up, do something else, make a concession and

magically goes away, but not all the time. in one case back in the late 20s and early 30s brought on the depression, what do you make of this and where it's going? >> well, we're at a point where we're going beyond threatening, right? the president is talking about raising tariffs by a substantial amount on both steel and aluminum. so the question is whether our trade partners retaliate, whether we see the chinese, the koreans, the brazilians slapping on some kind of retaliatory tariffs. you know a lot of other countries depend on us and might be reluctant to do that. china has been fairly aggressive on this front. we have to see how the chinese respond. >> you know throughout the many years he's been in business and in politics, jon, the president is clear saying we're always afraid of chinese, afraid they're going to stop buying our debt or continuing to hold our debt, so we've always been

on tiptoes, walking on eggshells. he says you got to remember they need us a lot more than we need them. they need the american people buying all their stuff and we do, and they're not going to mess with us. do you think that's the case? >> that's a really important point. you have to remember that the chinese depend on us as much if not more than we depend on themselves, because their whole economic model is built on exporting goods and we're the largest consumer of their export. this idea that the chinese buy a lot of u.s. treasury debt, the idea they would stop buying debt i found to be far-fetched because what they're doing is taking all the dollars that come into the country and recycling it back into our treasury debt. if they stopped doing that, we're talking about upward pressure on the currency which is going to make it harder for them to run and export models. i don't think they can just turn off the switch on buying our debt and pushing our interest rates higher.

there's a price to pay if they do that on their front too. neil: jon, you mentioned at the outset and a concern of jerome powell's and bill dudley and fed officials saying if that's inflationary in and of itself, the cost of goods that come into the country go higher. other costs go higher as well. or -- or people don't buy the goods at all and buy the cheaper alternative and it's not a threat. what do you see happening? >> well, you know, i think one of the things the fed would have to parse through if we see higher tariffs, they've done washing machines, solar panels, aluminum and steel, this is one of the effects of a short-term blip or more persistent effects. it would take some time for the fed to examine that. we wouldn't see an immediate response from the bank if

tariffs go up. it plays out over a longer period of time. the bigger concern in the markets today about the tariffs, this big sell-off tied to the trump announcement is that this becomes something that feeds on itself and overall slows global growth and global trade. you know, we have seen a slowdown in global trade the last couple of years and that has not been supportive of the global economy. neil: jon hilsenrath, "wall street journal" global economics editor. thanks for coming on. >> thanks for having me. neil: steel stocks are thought to be the instant beneficiaries of all of this, and indeed they are. those steel companies badly need the break, nothing like the powerful players they were back in business in the early 1960s when john kennedy took them on for raising prices. they do not have that kind of freedom today. that was the last u.s. president to deal with steel, in this case taking on u.s. manufacturers. now we have president trump

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. >> we'll be imposing tariffs on steel imports and tariffs on aluminum imports and you're going to see a lot of good things happen. you're going to see expansions of companies. 25 for steel, 10 for aluminum. it's being written now. neil: all right, you heard that 25% tariffs on steel products that will be detailed next week. 10% aluminum products and capitalist pig hedge fund manager jonathan hoenig, what do you think? >> this is a tax. a tariff is a tax, neil, 25%

tax. that's paid for by americans, and i tell you, neil, this is exactly the same mistake herbert hoover made in 1930 imposed tariffs on agricultural products and turned a mild recession into the great depression, that's exactly why we're seeing the markets diametrically lower today. you can thank the president for that. neil: started with a couple of goods, spread and spread and spread, tit for tat across the globe, boom. is that your fear now in the difference you hear from a lot of people who are taking the administration's side on this is they need us a lot more than we need them, you say? >> well, neil, the president, and i guess now the republicans, i suppose, they don't even understand what trade is, neil. trade is win-win. that's why we do it and americans have benefitted tremendously from trade with china. look around the house. everything is there. many problems made from china at greatly reduced costs.

this is cronyism, the idea that the president has to protect steel, protect this group or that group. forget the idea of drain the swamp, forget cronyism. that's what the president did. charging you and i more to buy farm equipment, a can of soda, a car to help these favored industries. i'm telling you it's the inflationary type of pressures that can really crush an economy. neil: and it's really easy to get judgmental on this. whether it's john kennedy 56 years ago slapping on the steel industry to raise prices, just as much as i am of the president trying to shield an industry from global competition whether they are being gouged or not. if it has to get up to the oval office in something like this, either way, it's a dangerous trend. >> yeah, and neil, we're not

learning from history. to learn from history, you have to read it, i don't know if the president has read it, he doesn't understand it. what's made us prosperous, neil, is we've been free, and these countries that subsidize particular industries, they're doing it to their own detriment neil, central planning doesn't work, it didn't work in east germany, in cuba. nazi germany or soviet union or japan, let's go to more recent, japan subsidized, protected workers in the 80s and 1990s. what it prompted in their economy was two-decade long lost era of low jobs, high unemployment. not more freedom, more protectionism and a much weaker economy and weaker market. neil: a lot of the companies, businesses, the whole industries have very, very good folks who push their point, push their cause. back to ronald reagan when there was concern about the

japanese dumping chips on our market, pennies on the dollar and, of course the president intervened and tried to stop that and all that, but it leads to spiraling other. so what is your biggest fear here? >> well, we're not just on the cusp of the trade war, neil, i believe the president has started a trade war. it's just a matter of time. neil: they haven't returned the salvo yet on the solar panel thing, the washer thing from korea, despite the president enacting these tariffs. they have not responded yet. >> no, neil, you don't get it. the war is the war from the president against the american people! the war is against the american people who just want to have the terrible tragedy, neil, of buying a washing machine made in south korea, maybe saving a couple of dollars. this is the nationalist collectivist idea you have to spend for the greater good.

it was wrong when the democrats did it, and worse now that the defenders of capitalism are engaging in this central planning. it's terrible. neil: let me know how you feel on this, i couldn't quite tell. jonathan hoenig, the genie is out of the bottle, and it could be ugly. i'm not talking about i dream of genie. i digress. the dow down about 286 points. stay with us.

. neil: this one, i couldn't figure out, kroger, the grocery store chain added to the list of those restricting gun sales. who knew? gerri willis has the latest.

reporter: they just don't own kroger, they own fred myers, that grocery store and general goods retailer to tighten gun sales in the wake of the florida school shootings. they carry merchandise in addition to groceries and will no longer sell ammunition to those under 21 years of age. demonstrate the need for additional action on the part of responsible gun retailers. we're raising the age to 21 in all of our fred meyer locations. the decision came after walmart and dick's sporting goods announced on wednesday they would increase the purchasing age for firearms to 21. age thresholds for sales at 21 for handguns and 18 for long guns. including the ar-15 in 2015 and

don't sell high-capacity magazines. the company said it would stop selling some toy guns, listen to this statement, we are also removing items from the website resembling assault-style weapons including non-lethal. serving sportsman and hunters and will continue to do so in a responsible way. the stock is not responding that much today. kroger is a little higher today, 1 1/2 percentage points and walmart down by the same amount. and talking to l.l. bean, bass pro shops to find out if anybody else is getting on the bandwagon. neil: i have a feeling they are. thank you very much. good report. facebook is facing critics at a safety summit in washington. hillary vaughn has more. hey, hillary? reporter: facebook is joining a panel of organizations and some of the critics from 35

different countries to talk about online safety. the company has faced criticism over kid messenger app that target kid consumers under 13 years old. facebook is providing a service for something that kids will do anyway online, it's a way for parents to get them off apps that aren't kid friendly and puts parents in control. but i asked her if this was a way for facebook to capitalize on a very young user base before their competitors. >> they want more control. so in that way we really are trying to build for families, and really if you think about it, building for families over the long run is a great business model. reporter: a new study shows 47% of parents are worried about tech use. they need to do a lot more research on tech addiction but admits facebook or instagram could be a part of the problem. that's something they're

looking into. ginsburg credits the news feed to make sure facebook is having a positive impact on users in the long term even if it causes stock to take a dip in the short term. >> so in our mind, the business interest and the user interest completely 100% align and that over time as people find more meaning in facebook thashlgs be more tolerant of ads and try to bring more ads that are relevant to people so the financial impact is one where we think there's not a split in business and user interest. reporter: the eu announcing that tech companies have an hour to take down illegal content once it's flagged by authorities. a source close to the task force i talked to think that hour time frame will be challenging but there's a lot of ambiguity around how this will actually be implemented. waiting to hear more from the eu before they implement actual

changes. neil? neil: thank you very much. another big offering coming, but this one has interesting wrinkles to it. talking spotify and talking about it with deirdre bolton. tell me what's going on? reporter: spotify music streaming service, the oldest one of its kind, there's like 71 million customers worldwide. apple music is catching up. three years old has 36 million subscribers worldwide. and the streaming service versus downloading a song by song, i think the most interesting part about spotify going public is the way that it is doing it. long story short, it's cutting out a big part of what wall street does. what investment bankers do. if you have a business, if you can cut out the middle man, you're going to hold on to a lot more money. that is what spotify is going to do. if they pull this off, this is going to change the game for

how tech companies go public. other companies like airbnb going public, they may look at spotify and say you saved $70 million in fees, maybe we will try that. spotify is trying a direct listing, list on the new york stock exchange spot is the symbol and work with users on setting the pricing. that's a big part what the investment bankers, they go behind closed doors. neil: a mystery. >> a bubbling cauldron and say this is what we're going to price at and this is what the market is going to support, sometimes they mess up, sometimes over, under, anyway. spotify is saying that's all right, we're going to do it ourselves, direct listing, the market will decide. they're going to pay the three investment banks working with them. goldman, alan company and morgan stanley about 30 million between the two. let's assume 10 million each. if you look at snap, snapchat

formerly listed as snapchat, when they listed they had to pay $100 million. neil: are you kidding? . >> no. could this be a game-changer, i'm watching for that i think that's going to be a harbinger of things to come especially for uber and we work and airbnb when they decide to go public. neil: but they are still using three investment banks. >> there does need to be some infrastructure, can't all be wild, wild west but a greatly reduced role to the tune of minus 70%. neil: that's incredible. watch that one very, very closely. deirdre bolton, apparently the social media stuff and all is going to be big. [ laughter ] >> thank you, deirdre. stocks dropping and a lot of folks saying a trade war is the reason. is it? after this.

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. neil: all right, we've got d down now over 380 points, and a lot of this built on the trade war, or trade friction, the tariffs the president is going to announce formally next week on steel and aluminum products coming to the country, largely from asia.

does he have legal standing, forget about political standing. steel markets do not enter -- judge andrew napolitano, what do you think? >> too much power in the hands of one person. he can set the tariff at any rate he wants. you know he had the meeting for 10 minutes. the reporter said what's the tariff rate. 25% on steel? as our colleague david asman pointed now the an e-mail to all of us, that's going to cause fears of inflation, going to cause the fed to raise interest rates. that's going to cause prices to go up. neil: jerome powell was talking to the senate today, not great when it happens. >> no, i think it's bad economics and bad politics, but he has the power to do it. congress gave it to presidents generations ago. neil: we know from history it can lead to problems but it depends if other countries go tit for tat. >> of course, they will. of course, china will.

neil: you know the president's view on this, judge, those countries need us more than we need them. they're not going to do that. >> when you go to walmart or costco or any of the big box stores and things cost 25% more, you're not going to be happy about it, and we all want the best quality at the lowest price. tariffs defeats that. tariffs causes a trade war, and once that trade war starts, i don't know how he's going to stop it. neil: ben sass, the nebraska senator is on the wires right now. you expect the policy this bad from a leftist administration, not a supposedly republican one. this is not going down well. >> is donald trump a conservative republican, mr. cavuto? not this week. neil: no, no, and telegraphed a lot of signals i did not think he would go. taking the weapons away and then -- >> can you imagine if hillary clinton or barack obama said that. neil: this is happening again and again.

>> it is. it is. i don't know if he said it because he was thinking aloud and not thinking of the consequences. >> i know where his heart was, he wants to cut down on the violence and all that, but seemed to reveal a position that's not only important to his party, important to conservatives, but to our constitution. >> he took an oath to preserve, protect and defend the constitution, a natural human right, government can't tinker with it. and the fifth amendment, life, liberty or property, it has to try you for it. it can't take the property first and try you second. neil: no matter the reason. >> correct. that's what he suggested yesterday. neil: on that issue, kroger the latest one to say the gun sales they stopped. others moving it to a higher age despite the federal age being 18 in most cases. so what do you make of what the

walmarts, the dick's sporting goods, what they're doing. >> the federal age is 18. federal age protection doesn't kick in until age 40. in your and my home state of new jersey, state age protection kicks in at 18. translate, 18 to 21 yeermds denied the ability to buy a rifle at dick's sporting goods in paramus, new jersey, can result in a class-action. neil: they have lawyers, right? >> correct, the youngsters will win. you can't discriminate on the basis of age in a state where age is made a protect category and in new york, new jersey, california and illinois it is. neil: they're doing this to get the controversy off them but might have engenderred more. >> correct. and varney will love this, they generated lawyers fees too. neil: correct. we know how cheap that guy is. judge, thank you very, very

much. we escalated on the selling off, down 400 points, built on fears as the judge outlined on this trade war. we're not there yet but that's usually how they go. a tit-for-tat response, we're waiting to hear from the chinese and others the subject of the 25% tariff on steel goods. you pay that. it's not a good tax and aluminum would be 10% surcharge. this follows what the president has done already to south korean washer makers like lg and the solar panel front. again, china there. those countries did not respond to that. they threatened to do so so the president is hoping they will similarly hold their powder on this. but history indicates they don't. hey, what are you guys g here?

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. neil: all right, what do these two guys have in common? both presidents, of course. john f. kennedy made steel industry the focus of his administration, back in 1962. steel industry was trying to

raise prices, kennedy wouldn't have it. stopped them from doing it. that was the first time a president went after an industry for willy-nilly hiking prices. fast-forward to today, the steel industry is under duress, and he's says they're getting gouged and almost put out of business, some on life support because a lot of foreigners are dumping steel here at way below cost and put a stop to it with tariffs, on steel products, aluminum product. enter one of my favorite people on the planet, kennedy. as a libertarian, whatever, what do you think when presidents of either side get involved? >> interesting because republicans are the ones who talk about free markets, they are free markets because they're free from government constraint. the president must restrain himself, this is why you're seeing the markets react the way they are. they will anticipate the unintended consequences of tariffs like this.

which are countertariffs. we will have a much harder time exporting the goods that we make in places trying to offload their steel. there are ways of going about that without fixing prices. jonathan hoenig is absolutely ride. this is collectivism, socialism, the wrong instinct to hopefully somebody appeal to the president's better angels to reverse course on this. neil: in the meantime, i'm curious, the argument for doing this is the administration's outline and those who favor this sort of thing say there are cheaper alternatives, american alternatives, you don't have to pay the higher price. you can buy the american solar panel, the american washing machine, the american steel beam. what do you make of the argument the inflationary fear will drive the costs up? >> we are teetering on the edge of inflationary period and only exacerbate that saying you are

forced to buy these certain products from this certain place. i love buying american. that's fantastic, when it fits in my budget and needs. but for a lot of people, these markets, our global marketplace is so interdependent it is anti-pragmatic to think you can force people through coercion to buy american products, buy american products because they are better, they're made better. neil: you read my mind, in china and the other places, i don't know how it will work out. these products in the united states, we won't buy. it hurts the american companies selling abroad. the back and forth prompts a sell-off or is the sell-off overdone? >> the market we've seen an incredibly volatile period and when the market is so high, talking about 25, 26,000 points and people are optimistically looking at 30 points for the

dow. it will be good to see if the president takes advantage of that. it's things like this that will give the market the yips, that's what makes investors, especially those with 401(k)s, small investors and people with pensions -- neil: you could make an argument that a lot of the policies and deregulatory push, and the trade positions are undoing? >> they run count tort freedom he's been capitalizing on and it is his deregulation. it is pulling back the hand of government and allowing these areas to flourish. he should absolutely appeal to that side of himself. the deregulatory side. neil: you would think he would know that and see that. i think what they're thinking, kennedy, just our barking is going to lead to them doing something. >> that may be true when it comes to twitter taunts with north korea. that's not necessarily true, and markets don't always follow

political rules and the cause and effect that may take place in political discourse doesn't always manifest in the marketplace. neil: so play this out. where do we go with this? head back to as much of a free market as we possibly can and take the deregulatory and the tax success and apply it so we don't become economic isolationists. it's the worst thing we can do. neil: put you down as a maybe on this thing. just to let you wherein we stand on this. the dow or should i say piled down when the administration announced it would slap the tariffs sometime next week. 25% on foreign steel coming into this country. and 10% on aluminum coming into this country. the hope being from the administration it won't come to a trade war because the other guys will wise up and rethink what they're doing. history proves again and again it doesn't go that way.

that there is a response and we just don't envision the response but trust me. there will be one. all right. we're down about 4 42 points. to trish regan. on that happy note i give it to you. trish: president trump announced new tariffs on steel and aluminum that could very big impact on trade. we're off 447 points. wow, near the lows of the session. pretty much near a freefall. we'll see how it goes. buckle up. president trump is tired of seeing other countries take advantage of our workers, take advantage of our industries and as a result it is time for us to get smart on trade. what is that going to mean? it is going to mean trade deals both fair and free. the president will sign new tariffs into law next week. markets are reacting. we have full coverage t