would cost american taxpayers $32.trillion over 10 years. per. here's lou dobbs. lou: good evening, everybody. our top stories, president trump's legal team going on the offensive against the russia witch hunt on the eve of the manafort trial. the first courtroom test of the special counsel and his band of angry democrats. we'll break down the latest developments. tom dupree joins us as does fox legal analyst greg jarrett. president trump issuing an ultimatum to dems and ry dems an congress. either fund the fall wall or face a shutdown of the government. >> it's time we had proper

border security. we're the laughingstock of the world. we have the worst immigration laws anywhere in the world. lou: republican strategist ed rollins tonight, weigh in on the latest white house tactics to repair america's broken borders. and deadly wildfires raging through northern california. a trail of destruction. we'll have the latest breaking news on the efforts to contain those runaway fires. our top story tonight, the president's fight against the mueller witch hunt. president trump summing it up in a tweet this weekend. the president said, quote, there is no collusion. the robert mueller rigged witch hunt headed now by 17 increased from 13 including an obama white house lawyer, angry democrats started by a garage lent dossier paid for by crooked hillary and the dnc. therefore the witch hunt is an

illegal scam. the president's attorney, rudy giuliani also making the rounds saying it's looking less likely that there will be a sitdown between the president and the special counsel. >> everything has been showing that the president didn't do anything wrong. this is absurd. the president's innocence has been proven over and over again. i would ask the special counsel to put out his report and show us what he's got. >> they haven't gotten back to us in ten days other our recommendation of thou do an interview. i'm sure they're in bad shape at this point. >> until we get, we get ironed out exactly what they want to do. right now i'm telling him no way. lou: no way. that comes as the mueller witch hunt enters the biggest challenge period. tomorrow, the trial against former trump campaign chair paul manafort. our first guest tonight to discuss the mueller conflicts,

the lack of collusion and any evidence thereof, the prospect of the president being interviewed at all joining us tonight, former deputy assistant general tom dupree. tom, great to have you with us. this is looking like a exreet ce and utter mess. with all sorts of rhetoric rising in temperature and tone. and meanwhile manafort goes to trial tomorrow. we're more that two years into the investigation of the president for collusion with russia. what gives? >> well, lou, i agree that things are heating up. to me at least it was striking that as you point out over the weekend, the president has taken his offensive against bob mueller toe a new level. he's alleging conflicts of interest. talking about how mueller might be compromised because of his busies peuts. he was denied job of the director of the fbi. my sense is that the president

knows even if he doesn't have a legal argument to warrant his disqualification, that is not the president's audience. he's planting doubts in the minds of the american public about the integrity of bob mueller and bob mueller's team. lou: and this has been going on for some time, this appeal to the court of public opinion. because the special counsel is leaking left and right, behaving like nothing so much as a prosecutor, he is more, if you will, you know, he's on a jihad of some sort and it's an' of --e profession if it can be safely called that, has simply permitted it without comment. there is no independent objective voice now whatsoever to be heard. it is appalling what has

happened and what has been permitted by the republican leadership in both the house and the senate. this is a disaster for the country and the president, frankly, has been, to me, so wronged that it is almost impossible to make it all right. >> well, at the end of the day i think it is congress that may make the call here. if you think, as i do, that there would be constitutional problems with indicting a sitting president, then the only remedy would be impeachment. as you know, that's something that would be decided by the congress. so the fact that trump, the fact that mueller, the fact that everyone is focused on the equities here, public opinion really spinning this and framing it the way they want to makes all of the sense in the world. lou: i think somehow there should be a legal action against robert mueller for taking on the political responsibility of the congress and the senate instead of a legal proceeding against

the president. you said impeachment. my god, tom, what would they impeach him for. where's the high crime? or is it even a low crime? you're the attorney. you're the prosecutor. the former deputy attorney general. how? in the hell can anyone in the justice department go to work and say what am i doing today, i'm persecuting the president of the united states and we've been doing it over two years and by the way, there's not a damn bit of evidence. what person can look themselves in the mirror and say they have any integrity at all? >> well the constitutional standard is high crimes and misdemeanors and we haven't seen any evidence of that on the president's behalf. lou: let's go to low crime. let's go to little bitty damn crime. let's keep it real. there is no evidence of any crime whatsoever, high or low. >> i think at this point mueller

has not shown his cards, if he has the cards to play. he has not linked any sort of meetings with the russians. maybe he gets trump's relative osar the people close to the president but he hasn't shown anything linking the president himself to something that would warrant impeachment. lou: what are we to do? the default here is instead of being persecuted by a damn special counsel -- excuse me for swearing but i am so fru frustrd and annoyed and disgusted with this entire process and the cowards, the cowardly fools and the leadership of our congressary our senate who have permitted this to go on, what is the -- the default ask impeachment for no crimes being found or no evidence of crimes being found during a special counsel information? that now becomes the default position now? >> the default position would be bob mueller gives the president a clean bill of health. he wraps the investigation up in

a few months and says i have found in evidence of wrongdoing by the president. lou: wrap it up in a few months? how about a few hours. what do we need, a little, you know, 400-page document full of nonsense that amount to nothing but nothing is the starting point, it's all they could report. how many pages should that be, one, maybe two. >> and as we know from american history, these independent counsel investigations are always far longer than you thought they were going to be, not shorter. but it doesn't seem to me to be out of the question if mueller gets what he wants, an interview with the president, that he would be able to bring this thing to close. lou: the hell with mueller. this is not a game. this is the president of the united states. this nation deserves full-time leadership and no further effort to subvert, to overthrow the presidency of donald j. trump.

it's ignorant open stupid beyond belief that our left wing national media can't even bring itself to be honest about what is happening every day in front of them and indeed the country. >> my concern, lou, is that if the president tells mule tore take a hike, we're going to be inviting years more of litigation. if mueller subpoenas the president and that's battled through the need rale courts for a year or two, that's going to consume the white house time and prevent the president and his administration from focusing on the things that mat tore the american people. lou: what would you rate the score at right now, special counsel versus president donald j. trump? what is the score? because it's actually special counsel robert mueller versus the united states of america. >> well, and as far as the score goes, i hope we're in the eighth inning, not in the second inning of this game. however at this point i don't think the special counsel has scored any points against the

president. now to be sure, the special counsel hasn't released his final report. he may have evidence that we haven't seen. but it seems to me if there were something, we probably would have heard about it by now. lou: i think the use of that in an elegant way. what you're saying is there is no way in the world that evidence of wrng doing i wrongde possession of the special counsel could have survived in washington, d.c. without it being leaked a year ago. six months ago. >> i would be very impressed if that kept that under wraps. lou: always good to have you here up next, president trump repeats his threat to shut down the government, calling on the rinos, the radical dems to support his plan to secure the border. >> after many many years of talk within the united states, i would have no problem doing a shutdown. it's time we had proper border security. we're the laughingstock of the

world. lou: well, it's, it's perhaps past time. we'll bring up that issue, of course, and assess its likely chance of success and much much more. the deen of political strategists, ed rollins joins us here next. stay with us. we're coming right back. your insurance rates skyrocket after a scratch so small you could fix it with a pen. how about using that pen to sign up for new insurance instead? for drivers with accident forgiveness, liberty mutual won't raise their rates because of their first accident. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ a hotel can make or break a trip. and at expedia, we don't think you should be rushed into booking one. that's why we created expedia's add-on advantage.

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saying he is willing to shut the government down to get the wall built and the border secured. president trump's statements came in a joint press conference with the italian prime minister where he called the u.s. immigration laws the laughingstock of the world. the president's words unfortunately seemed to be falling on deaf ears among the rinos in congress, as they usually do. >> i certainly don't like playing shutdown politics. i don't think it would be helpful. let's avoid it. >> i don't think we're going to shut down the government. we're going to keep the government open but we're going to get better policies on immigration. >> if the president wants to shut down the government, that's his prerogative. i think it would be a mistake and i don't think it's going to be necessary. lou: well, it would be interesting to see the over and under on whether it's necessary.

oklahoma congressman tom cole stowing the rino line as he always does saying we're going to have a challenging midterm any way and i don't see how putting the attention on shutting down the government is going to help you. i believe, mr. cole, that is the president's point. congratulations, you perceived correctly his leadership on this issue. joining us is ed rollins, great america pac chairman, fox political analyst, great american, great friend. and shut down the government. i love it. i mean i absolutely love it. >> i think the country will love it if it's on a legitimate issue and the president has laid the ground work. lou: what do you mean if it's about a legitimate issue. it's about securing the border. it's about building the dad gum wall. >> you have to let me finish. lou: i thought i heard a period.

>> the president promised he was going to build a wall. he got elected on this issue as much as anything else. go back and ask the people that voted for him, what's the most important thing, build the wall. we're in the second year going into the midterms and the congress is doing a stall. lou: they're stonewalling. they are absolutely covering up. >> and i would rather go down on principle. and then you the koch tbrorts -- lou: i would rather the other guy go down on principle. i want the enemy, the opposition, the radical dem to go down. >> my since is the republicans are starting to worry about losing. i think this ask a high-risk game. lou: do you think these rinos are made out of starnl? disbli know them. remember i ran the congressional committee. i've been around them all of my life. lou: i don't understand why you put that in a hypothetical. >> it won't be a hypothetical. if the president fights on this

issue he'll energize the base. if his base is not energized, the republican party is going to get fla flattened. lou: i would like to test this. i truly believe the american people who voted for this president, who want to vote for this president, who believe in him thoroughly and absolutely would rather president trump shut down the government if mcconnell and rye onpersist in being anti-trumpers and being subversive of the government that is duly elected. they would rather, if it would have to be, that president trump be a one-term president and show the world what these rinos have done to this great nation. because mcconnell and ryan are every bit the subversives that anyone in the democratic party is, the ships, the schumer.

s. all of these. >> what amazes me is the guy has had nothing but success on every major issue since he got elected. this was the big promise and we still don't have immigration or no closer to it. the whole premise of waiting until after the election -- lou: you had paul ryan the other day waving his little pramp let around. he is so delusional, and apparently he is, to think that is some counter point to the president's agenda that he was elected president. >> actually went out and read his agenda over the weekend. lou: oh my gosh. you've got a strong stomach. >> there's no there. lou: why don't we tell people what is in there. entitlement reform. the good speaker would like. what would he like to do? he would like to cut entitlements. that's a brilliant way to get votes in a midterm election or a general election for president. it doesn't make -- the guy is delusional and the conference is walking around like he's the

pied piper. >> unfortunately they don't understand their bread and butter comes with this president and the success they've had is because of the president. lou: how can it be a misunderstanding. this president has delivered 4.1% unemployment. he's delivered the lowest unemployment rate for the minorities in history. he's delivered, $8 trillion in the market, delivered 4.1% growth in the economy, 4% in unemployment. this is a president who has deregulated everything, he'll rolled back almost everything that barack obama could do. it's more than you would think in deregulation. it's extraordinary. >> it's a speech every candidate should be giving out there and they're not. i'm just telling you, they're not. i monitor this pretty closely. very few talking about tax reform, very few talking about the benefits of this president. lou: we have to go to this

consideration. is president trump better off with all of these rinos and ryan's and mcconnells defeated, and democratic majority in the house unlikely in the senate, or is he better off with a majority. >> i would argue -- lou: these yellow-bellied pretend republicans. >> i would argue he needs to go out and help elect them, and he will. and i think if they win again in the house it's going to be because of his efforts, not their efforts. lou: so is he going to come back then from the elections having won and have to put up with this again? >> only if -- lou: what's the percentage of that? i would rather put up with them for two years and get rid of a bunch of them and have. >> the problem get rid of a bunch of them -- you get rid of a bunch of them, we are reapportion coming.

and you don't want to lose, you want to gain. and in my sense, it would hurt us long term. we need to build a trump party. lou: that's no way to do it. you want to bring cole back? you want to see these guys come back? i don't think so. ed, you and i are going to have to work this thing through. we're going to have to develop this. >> i'm all for it. lou: all right. that's going the fall mainly on you. >> i understand that. lou: ed rollins, thanks so much. congress ron desantis' campaign has launched a new and i have to say terrifically light-hearted ad featuring his family. desantis making sure voter os florida know he's a lot more than just a trump supporter. >> everyone knows my husband rong desantis is endorsed by president trump. but he's also an amazing dad. ron loves playing with the kids. >> build the wall. >> he reads stories. >> then mr. trump said, you're fired. i love that part. >> he's teaching madison to

talk. >> make america great again. lou: don't you love it? president trump set to hold a rally with congressman desantis in tampa tomorrow. please join us tomorrow for our special coverage of that event right here from 7:00 to 9:00 p.m. eastern. hope you'll be with us. the question is, do you agree with president trump that the wall must be built and the border must be secured even if it means shutting down the federal government to wake up the gop rino leadership? cast your vote on twitter @loudobbs. follow me on twitter, like me on facebook, follow me on instagram. up next, the oldest member of the supreme court, ruth bader ginsberg revealing her retirement mance. get excited pap becaus excited g to have the details for you right after this quick break. stay with us.

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bader ginsberg. he's got three names and we get to say them all. announcing she plans to retire from the supreme court three years into president trump's second term in office, if we can put it that way. she is 85 years old. she's the court's oldest member. she said over the weekend she has at least five more years left on the bench, we did a little math, we worked it out and president trump will have a lot to celebrate in his eighth year in office. the board of directors at cbs has decided to keep les moonves on as ceo and chairman for now. but the board is not entirety confident, launching an investigation into the sexual assault allegations that they have heard against him. cbs releasing a statement today saying that the board is in the process of selecting outside counsel now to conduct an

independent investigation, no other action was taken today on the matter. joining us gregg jarrett, fox business legal analyst and author of the newly released book, wait for it "the russia hoax. the illicit scheme to clear hillary clinton and frame donald trump ." best seller. brilliant book and congratulations again. >> thank you. lou: it's a best seller. a wonderful thing. >> it was number one on amazon's best seller list. lou: and you always have to do attribution. you've got footnotes. by the way, his book is so footnoted that i haven't seen anything like that since i was in college. i mean to see that many footnotes is extraordinary. but you had to have it bullet proof. i understand your reasoning. >> yes. lou: congratulations on the book. i recommend it to you highly. as highly as highly can be. >> thank you. very nice. lou: we join others in that --

recommending the book. >> some owe people have rea othd it and endorsed it. lou: sean hannity. >> couple top officials. lou: anybody else in government? >> a fellow named trump, i think. lou: president trump? >> a couple of times he tweeted. lou: that's what we call a topper. good for you. let's turn, you know -- i guess -- i think you're probably as annoyed as i have been about this whole mess today. because it is so co conspicuousa witch hunt. it is such a wrong of a president who is historic already in his achievements. and the national left wing media is so complicit with the dems, the radical dems, the left and the rinos, that it's

nauseating. it is gut wrenching. it is appalling. >> well i think there's no question but that top officials at the fbi, the department of justice use their positions of power to ignore the rule of law, to subvert it, and tried to undermine the democratic process and then when that failed they doubled down and tried to undo the presidential election. lou: is there, in your judgment, any greater crime, any greater wrong being done to the president than by the leadership of the republican party who refuse to stand with this president, who refuse to tell rod rosenstein, the deputy attorney general, others to just step aside. robert mueller is done, we're through. >> i honestly have never seen an official, top official at the

department of justice who is so blatantly defied lawful subpoenas and treated congress with contempt. it is only fair that he should be held in contempt himself, and i think also impeached. although it's hard to get two-thirds in the senate to accomplish that. lou: it's impossible, to be honest. >> you know that. lou: but the very idea that they don't bring the weight of their positions, as leaders of the republican party -- the fact is that the democratic party is underwriting this travesty says enough that i don't know that the democratic party should want another election. >> but this is how government works. when officials engage in wrongdoing, they then engage in a coverup of the wrongdoing. and that's what roaden stei ross doing. he affixed his signature to the renewal on the wiretap without

new evidence which the regulations demand. lou: we could go through a litany of wrongs by the investigator, the nib fib, fbi,e justice department. there's not a single wrong by this president, his campaign or his administration. >> and there was never then probable cause to launch the investigation against him. lou: how do we extricate our government from the grip of this toxic corrupt government that is presided over by radical dems and the deep state ? >> you have to drain is swamp, which is what the president wanted to do, which is why they want after him aaccused him of crimes he didn't commit. they didn't want to be drained. they wanted a third ferm for barack obamterm forbarack obamay clinton. lou: what does this president do now? you heard tom dupree say it

might create more trouble than the man has now if were were to fire mueller and rosenstein. >> the moment mueller ends his ntioinvestigation presumably wia report, the very next day i would fire jeff sessions and rod rosenstein just to begin with. lou: for that reason, can you imagine robert mueller handing over a report to the american people this year? can you imagine it? >> he will either do it in september as gullian any suggestgiuliani suggestsor aftes because he doesn't want to pull a comey. lou: you're telling me he doesn't want to interview in the governance of. >> he doesn't want to be accused like comey was of influencing an election. lou: i'm accusing him of doing that already. this has no other purpose. >> i agree. james comey triggered the appointment of the special

counsel by stealing and leaking government documents and it turned out to be his long time friend, and alley and colleague robert mueller who has refused to recuse himself in the face of three major conflicts of interest. americans should have no confidence in the integrity of mueller and his investigation. lou: i don't see why they would have any confidence in the justice department or the fbi. >> i agree wholeheartedly. lou: gregg jarrett, con kratch lacongratulations on the book. nice of you to say hi to us tonight. >> here it comes. lou: up next, president trump defends law enforcement along the border, repeated attacks from the radical dems no notwithstanding. >> i have to tip my hat off to the border patrols, who are the law enforcement to i.c.e., which really has been maligned by the democrats.

they go into these ms-13 nests, nests of bad, bad people, killers in many cases, and they get them out. they either go to jail or they get out of the country. lou: we'll take it up with the national border of patrol counsel president, the border patrol's union, brandon judd joining us here next. by the way, you hear lots of politicians thanking the border patrol, don't you, immigration and customs enforcement. i can't remember a senator, no not a congressman. but we have a president who does say thankful and grateful and represents the expression of the fact is, there are over ninety-six hundred roads named "park" in the u.s. it's america's most popular street name. but allstate agents know that's where the similarity stops. if you're on park street in reno, nevada, the high winds of the washoe zephyr could damage your siding. and that's very different than living on park ave in sheboygan,

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trump administration for reunifying more than 1800 illegal children with their families. george w. bush appointee judge says the government deserves great credit for meeting his strict one-month deadline that sent agencies scrambling to reunite young children separated from their parents. joining me now, president of the national border patrol council, the union for the border patrol, brandon judd. great to have you with us, brandon. the president now threatens to shut down the government if, as he put it, the dems and the rinos who lead the republican

party don't deliver the construction of the wall. your reaction? >> i'm a federal employee. i'm not speaking on behalf of the federa fed federal governme. but as a bored patrol agent i would support shutting down the government if in fact it was going to lead to border security. this is a topic that we've been discuss, for years on end. i've been a border patrol agent for 2 is years now. this is something that comes up year after year after year. we finally need to get ahold of this. we're not talking about legal immigration. we're talking about illegal immigration and we need to finally get a handle op it and this president is trying to make that happen. lou: we's trying to make it happen. he also is opposed to the business round table, the chamber of commerce, wall street, corporate u.s. multinationals, not corporate america, u.s. multinationals and the koch brothers who announced they're spending $400 million to be sure that the borders are wide open and that illegal immigrants have a free pass.

how does that make you feel. >?>> well that's the problem tht border patrol agents face we look at it from the left and they want voters. from the right they want cheap labor. and we're caught in the middle trying to fix a problem that has existed for years on end and we're not getting the support from either side, from either the democrats or the republicans, and it becomes an impossible task. and unfortunately this is an uphill battle that the president, thank goodness, is willing to take on and hopefully he win this battle. lou: without question. and this is a president fighting the koch brothers and it's not a fight that he sought, but nonetheless, that's where we are. the koch brothers are basically saying to every working man and woman in this country, every american family, american middle class, the hell with you, and they mean it. they're putting their money where their mouth is and they're trying to dress it up as an anti-trump message when it's an

absolutely anti-american message that they are sending loud and clear across the entire country. it is one of the most appalling arrogant things i've ever seen from even the koch oligarchs but particularly charles koch it's disgusting, appalling to see that. >> what the american public has to understand is that border security is an issue of national security, it's an issue of economic security, it's an issue of public safety. lou: why doesn't charl koch understand that? >> he does. but again, everybody comes into this with their own interests. charles koch wants to continue to make more money. when is enough enough. and i'm not saying there is enough. but they're looking at how is it that they can make their pockets even deeper. and unfortunately they're doing it on the backs of hardworking americans who want a safe and

secure country, that want a country of -- lou: on the backs of every american because what they do, they change the character of the country, the culture of the country and the safety and sochty of this country. and by the way, just to keep it in context, when is enough enough? we're talking about $120 billion for the koch brothers. that's a pretty good net worth. perhaps not enough, as you applied. but that is for them to know and for the rest of us just to kind of guess about. brandon judd, great to have you with us. thanks so much. >> thank you very much. lou: up next, deadly wildfires unleashing havoc and intersection across northern california. we'll have the latest from the scene straight ahead. stay with us. we'll be right back. sarah always chooses to take the stairs. but climbing 58,070 steps a year can be hard on her feet, knees, and lower back. that's why she wears dr. scholl's orthotics. they're clinically proven to relieve pain

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fires ravaging much of northern california. the pictures that you see here are live from santa clarita, north of los angeles where a wildfire is growing by the minute there across the state more than 700 homes have been destroyed, more than 50,000 people evacuated. authorities say they've contained about 20% of those fires that are obviously still

raging tonight across nearly all of the state. "the new york times" publisher authur ag complaining to president trump about the potential for violence against journalists ists. it appears his paper aren't interested in actual violence like you're seeing here against supporters of president trump. the hypothetical and the real. not under discussion by salzburger. just last week a u.s. marine was assaulted in hollywood by left wing attackers because he was wearing a trump jersey and a usa hat. joining us tonight, republican national committee woman for california. great to have you with us. mark simone, radio personality for new york's wor. great to have you both with us. let's just start with your reaction to a scion of the salzburger family, the times die

necessitdynasty. i can see him reaching for his snuff box as he said i'm concerned about the potential for violence against journa journalists. >> these guys are totally out of touch. the crocodile tears from the media could be juxtaposed against the media that they slant lies. 90% of the stories against our president are negative. gallop poll earlier this year showed that nearly half of americans don't trust the media. in the backdrop, the only violence happening here on the national stage is members of congress and now a senator encouraging violence against trump supporters. i have a lawsuit here against san jose for violence against trump supporters in 2016. so they're not reporting on that. they're reporting on their own, you know, sort of naibl gazing concerns which are not what most americans are concerned about. lou: yeah. your thoughts, mark?

>> i thought it was the most ridiculous meeting. he was so naive. he said to the president at one point within i've had to put armed guards in front of my building. and the president said, you didn't have armed guards before? how would you not be operating without armed guards on a major skyscraper in new york. lou: the registration is seven to one democrat in manhattan. >> i love the name, ag swamp burger. it's just perfect. lou: well done, as usual, mark. let's take this business with the rinos that the president is really dealing with. he said he was talking to dems but you can see he was being inclusive. he was talking about the rinos as well, particularly who resided in the speakership and in the leader's office, the majority leader's office in the senate when he said he's going to shut down the government if he doesn't get his wall. which he promised to the american people, his supporters. and which he has made clear all

along. and where were they denying this during the campaign? they were just enjoying the benefits, i believe. your thoughts? >> yes, lou. for eight years, almost every member of congress in our party campaigned on the issue of border security and tightening up our immigration system. they raise money off of it. we got e-mail off of it. then when push comes to shove, they're nowhere to be seen. not just this issue, we saw it with obamacare and other issues as well. i've heard it stayed on this network and i agree. with 100 days left to go we really need a leader of the congress who is going to lead the forces and do what they promised and not be a lame duck who is looking to his next job job. lit's really disappointing. lou: up come pictures of mcconnell, mark and ryan. what hope do you hold that they would in any way be interested

in the middle class, working men and women and their families and the sovereignty and security of the country? >> 300 million people. and these two is who we ended up with? you wrote a great book "war on the middle class" years ago. this is world war ii on the middle class. a great book. it's an ongoing problem. and the border is wide open not due to lazines laziness or slop. it's deliberate. they're working with the two snakes in congress to keep it hop. lou: to mark's point, the koch brothers attacking really, not donald trump even though that's what their network is doing, putting up $400 million to run against in this next cycle, to run against republicans who don't obey the mighty and the wealthy and the powerful koch

brothers. it is just so stunning to see them carrying out class warfare because that's what they're doing. they're attacking working men and women, their families and the american middle class just as sure as anything. how can the republican party let them get away with it? >> well, for one thing, they're actually having it both ways, lou. a lot of the koch industrial complexes surrounding the president, a lot of the lawyers in the administration, people who are tied to the kochs in some way or another. they have their fingers everywhere. in the white house you've got lawyers who are tied to that. and so they have it both ways. you're absolutely correct -- lou: they're trying to have it both ways. >> yeah, so far they -- yes, you're correct. here in california we see that, you know, it's big business interests pushing to keep the immigration problem from being solved. both at the low-income level with agriculture worker es and at the highest level with tech workers in silicon valley.

lou: that hasn't changed in 40 years, all about labor. western growers association and on it goes. >> there's a deep state. we've got to remember there's ooh deep swamp too. >> that's right. lou: armed and dangerous. thank you both. come back soon. up next, remember when bernie sanders said this? >> today we say the function of a rational health care system is to provide quality care to all in a cost effective way. lou: eloquent. a new study has that cost effective price established now. wait until you see that cost effective so-called number. catch me tonight as well on fox news as i join tucker carlson to talk about congressional rinos, department of justice stonewalling, the trump

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would cost american taxpayers $32.trillion over 10 years. thanks for being with us tonight. kennedy: president trump's attorney rudy giuliani has come out winging questioning the credibility of former trump attorney michael cohen calling him a liar and scoundrel. he secretly recorded conversations with the president while he was still a candidate. rudy giuliani has been making waves with a series television appearances the last couple days. let's go to edward lawrence. >> sources are saying