we do and i know you do. thanks for being with us. see you tomorrow right here. good night from new york. kennedy: rudy giuliani flips the script on robert mueller accusing him of collusion and claims the investigation will soon blow up in the special counsel's face. the former new york city mayor has been one of the president's fiercest attack dogs. giuliani says there are two questions that are totally off limits if bob mueller wants to interview the president. first why trump fired fbi director jim comey and what he said about michael flynn. according to legal experts it's unlikely the mueller team will

agree to those terms. but rudy giuliani says it doesn't matter because the holt investigation is illegitimate. >> the case will blow up on them. there is a lot more to what they did that nobody knows about yet. in is a lot more to the obstruction of justice and the collusion, to the fake dossier, trying to bring steele back in after he was completely discredited abu omar al-shishani discredit -- and then feed it to mueller. kennedy: giuliani is going to investigate the investigators. is it opening up the president's legal problems? joining me, the legendary

alan dershowitz. this is a different tactic the trump legal team is take. do you think it am good one? >> i don't want to see anybody criminally prosecuted. i don't think the mueller people should be prosecuted for obstruction of justice. i don't want to see the law obstruction of justice expanded. i came into this and wrote my book about the impeachment of trump, i believe if they had gone after hoik report same way i would have made the same arguments. i'm against the impeachment system against anybody. i think when you call for the prosecution of other people, you essentially strengthen the. the strategy to make muler an offer he can't accept. that is, an offer that's to

paraphrase the "godfather," then the president can announce wanted to speak, but mueller turned down the offer. it's he who is being unreasonable. i think that's a brilliant strategy. but to talk about prosecuting other people. it's not consistent with my approach as i civil libertarian to narrow the scope of the criminal law. kennedy: why trump fired james comey and what he might have said about going easy on michael flynn. rudy giuliani down played those on "hannity" last night. is that fair to avoid? yes. and i think they will win if that case comes to court. i don't think the constitution allows them to question a

president under article 2. the question, did you know about the meeting in the trump tower before you were elected president. that i think the president can't claim executive privilege over. if he answers it truthfully that he didn't know. there is a witness, michael choan sai -- michael cohen who d he did know. so the prosecutor has a basis for charging the president with lying to mueller. and that would be a perjury trap. he could walk into that perjury trap for telling what he believed the truth to be. kennedy: what happens then? what happens as far as indicting the president? that doesn't seem to meet the threshold or high crimes and misdemeanors. does it? >> i agree. but he unless clintonland. clinton didn't meet the

threshold for high crimes and you misdemeanors either. i don't think this would be high crime either. but there is the possibility he could write a report saying the president committed a crime, citing the testimony or the public statements by michael cohen that contradicts it. a president can be indicted forward any crime once he leaves office. president trump, mr. trump, former president trump could be indicted weren't statute of limitations. so he has to be very careful. any good lawyer worth his or her salt would recommend against him testifying. 53 years of practicing criminal law, i have never had a client sit down and talk to a prosecutor. prosecutors aren't there to help one they are there to trap you. kennedy: hillary clinton spoke

with the fbi. that seemed like a hospitable environment. i think the president's first legal team was so acquiesce end to mueller's legal team thinking they could generate goodwill. i don't think that will happen here. >> he ought to make one phone call to martha stewart and ask if she thinks he should meet with a prosecutor. her lawyers walked her into an interview and she was indicted for make statements the prosecutors believe to be untrue. it's always a non-start i are. you are -- a non-starter. you are not going to talk them out of anything. they just waiting for you to fall into a trap. kennedy: there is the political side.

looking at it from rudy giuliani's side web's half politician. -- he's had politician. how do you play to your strength. >> rudy giuliani is doing the thing from his point of view. he's giving president trump the option of going on television and say together american public, i have nothing to hide, i am innocent. it was muler who wouldn't give me the opportunity to talk. kennedy: he has some bad cops to his good cop. what would a news day be without a presidential tweet on the mueller investigation. today the president gave us a whopper reminding us hot scoundrels really are tweeting this is a witch hunt run by

people who are totally corrupt and/or conflicted. 17 angry dems. stay tuned. should the president stay on the offensive or be a little bit more low key. let's go to tonight's panel from town hall.com. katie pavlich is here along with her coworker, guy benson, and "reason" magazine editor and editor at large matt welch is here. this is such an exquisite smart panel. we have some save plenty of time and get right into it. what is the president doing right here and what is he blowing? >> i don't know what he's blowing per se. i think alan dershowitz is right. a lot of this is happening in

the public arena. mueller does haven't a public face here. but they are both engaged in a public negotiation. what is the moment people don't want to see. they don't want to see, does a subpoena request go to the supreme court. this is the place a constitutional crisis lives. they are dancing around each other. kennedy: we have been brought to the brink of constitutional crises several times in this modern era. first with richard nixon and again with bill clinton, then with the 2000 presidential election. what would happen if there were in fact a subpoena issued and it went to supreme court? is that why brett kavanaugh is such an attractive choice? >> i don't think so. we night and our institutions will be tested and they would endure fit got to that point. for now, what giuliani appears

to be doing is what we heard from professor dershowitz. they want to optically look to openly cooperate. i think president trump in his gut would love to talk to bob mueller base thinks's not guilty of the central charge of collusion and he wants to show the world, i'm not afraid of this guy. kennedy: if it were a one-question interview that were televised. are you guilty of collusion? he would say no. >> 20 minutes later -- i think dershowitz is right. what rudy and company are trying to do is seeming like the reasonable ones. we are willing with a few exceptions to do this thing. if they say we tried.

we are at an impasse it's their fault. >> it is a p.r. battle. but you are only hearing from one side. could you imagine if floyd mayweather and manny pacheo were going to fight? the president and his team have been very vocal. they are maneuvering. they interviewed so many people, whatever they laid out we have given them. how does the mueller team counter that? >> the white house is taking that to their advantage. the mueller team is not going to comments on all the attacks that are happening. their strategy is to stay focused, be professional so when they do go into a court of law or issue any indictment, that they have credibility as legal

professionals. instead of getting buried in the politics of what they are accused of. the clinton victory party on election tonight. if you look at the strategy coming from the white house. giuliani is saying one thing on one side and one thing on another side. he's trying to confuse people because the special counsel cannot respond it comes to the constitutionality of his authority as president. they won't ask about private conversations between the president and other members of his cabinet or staff on michael flynn. those come down to issues of what the president's job is. kennedy: i understand that and you make a great case of that. but it looks to independents on the outside they have something to hide. >> they try to appear to be reasonable and then there are

witch hunts. here is where that comes to a problem. the political climate which this will play out is going to change. the calculus is going to change. control of capitol hill will change in november and that becomes more of a millstone. kennedy: we kind of know what the parameters are of this investigation. but there are areas where it's so broad. you know there is a shark swimming around somewhere, but it's pitch black. >> and we don't in how it began which is a relevant question we speculated about. and the trump team said it's illegitimate. but those of us who haven't seen all of the unredacted information, we are just guessing here. another point to your question that materials winds made was -- question that dershowitz made was the meeting at trump tower.

that's why i maybe was not flabbergasted because this is how he rolls. the fact that he was tweeting last week with a new explanation of what that meeting was about. that is the one thing you should not be tweet being, especially if it's not just a tweet reiterating your official story. kennedy: it's interesting. so many people who want to bring down the president say this is it. stormy daniels. this is it. the wolf book. michael wolff. this is it. fire and fury. it's going to end his presidency. >> there is a lot we just don't know. special counsel has been very quite. but they said there has bean lot of disinformation in the press. so, you know, there is a lot of stuff coming out. kennedy: the on thing he didn't say is hashtag fake news.

bring back the fake news. we'll bring back the panel later in the show. first up. space force it's coming and the trump campaign wants you to help pick the new logo. fantastic choices. we'll show you all of them after the break. the republic canning party barely squeak out wins tuesday night. it's easy to think that all money managers are pretty much the same. but while some push high commission investment products, fisher investments avoids them. some advisers have hidden and layered fees. fisher investments never does. and while some advisers are happy to earn commissions from you whether you do well or not, fisher investments fees are structured so we do better when you do better. maybe that's why most of our clients come from

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running by the end of next year. >> two communications satellite and nearly a billion dollars for the defense space programs. today we renew the president's call on the congress of the united states to invest an additional $8 billion in our space security systems the next five years. reporter: the vice president says this bran' is necessary to carry american ideals into the expanse of space. secretary of defense jim mattis says he's on board. >> to be clear, the space force will not be built from scratch. because the men and women who protect and run our nation's space programs today are already the best in the world. since the dawn of the space age america has remained the best in

space. reporter: in the department of defense report creating this branch, it specifically calls out china and russia saying they are pushing warfare capabilities to neutralize our capability. kennedy: the trump campaign sent out a bunch of logos asking for to us choose one. what do they look like? >> this is from the campaign to re-elect the president, not from the official white house. you can see a number of them very jovial is the best way i can describe it. they look like they belong in a buzz lightyear package. they are there for you to vote on. not official. not official. they will not be on side of any planes. kennedy: which one do you like?

reporter: i have got to be honest with you. my vote would go to the united federation of planets logo. i don't like any of these. kennedy: i have a rocket tattoo, i like that better. this week's crazy elections are til not over. we still don't have a winner in ohio, and the governor's race in kansas is down to 91 votes between the two candidates with kobach holding on to his razor-thin lead over coyler. kobach was endorsed by president trump. many candidate are asking an important question, hitch their trailers to president trump or go their own way. let me ask dan henninger.

let's discuss this. i think it's interesting that obviously some people really love the president, some people hate the president, it's the ones in between who seem to be deciding these elections. how are candidates going to use his wattage in the mid-terms? >> the record shows if you are running in a district -- the record shows if you are going to run in a district it that was carried overwhelmingly by donald trump, you want him to campaign for you. that said, kathy rogers running in a district trump carried by 12 point could not get her vote above 50% in the jungle primary. there probably is -- you would be hard put to find another district more heavily weighted toward the republican than ohio

12 near columbus and troy balderson finishes in a virtual dead heat. the question is, is trump driving votes toward these candidates or se siphoning them away? kennedy: you inject another element. fair-weather trumpers. not never trumpers. >> i think you are seeing a development of fair weather trumpers. they live in the suburbs around columbus who like trump's policies but they don't care for the president's personality. he rubs them wrong way. he rubs some people the wrong way. it works for him. he has 35% of the votes locks up. but if you are --

kennedy: you are saying they are not passionate enough about anything, and they are not passionate about the president's personality and thrrve it could be a liability? >> i think it may well be a liability. but keep in mind, this is august, it's not november. you have got several months to convince these republicans what the stakes are. you are staring count barrel of nancy pelosi and an impeachment circus. kennedy: you are going have one more full quarter before the mid-term. >> economists are looking for 3% growth, and the economy is booming. the stories one after another. we can't find enough workers in the united states. that should appeal to most of voters. but the republican candidates will have to get throughout and drive that idea. it works for donald trump in

noise question by the. but for these other candidates, they can't do trump. kennedy: coming up, the problem for democrats. ocasio-cortez made another stop on her train wreck policy tour last night. she she really claiming nobody will die if we socialize healthcare? our monologue is next. stay right here. [music playing] (vo) progress is in the pursuit. audi will cover your first month's lease payment on select models during summer of audi sales event.

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kennedy: alexandria ocasio-cortez is like the deli of the month club. her interviews are like the gift that keeps giving the whole year. she clarified where the slaiftion come from. no more funerals. >> we are paying for the system. americans have the sticker shook of healthcare as it is, and we are also not talking about why aren't we incorporating the costs of the funeral expenses because of those who die because they can't afford access to healthcare. that's part of our system. kennedy: what? messiah bernie is going to keep people from dying because they only die as a result of private healthcare is telephones. sow canadians are i am, so

canadians are immortal. people will still die when bernie is president. and there is no guarantee people will live longer or better because of anything in this utopian stomach churner. what is proposed is a 40 person * pay cut for d a 40% pay cut for doctors and providers. if you like your doctor you won't be able to keep your doctor because your doctor won't be a doctor any more if you cut their peso dramatically. '. ken from had to take -- if you had to take that of a bath doing more work for less money? voters may be confused to about the future of healthcare. but the dysfunction won't be

cured by the pill of socialism that can't provide answers to critical questions like how do you pay for it? not enough people are dying to find out. tom perez, the president of the dnc says alexandria ocasio-cortez is the future of the democratic party. i hope so because she is entertaining. the panel is back. katie pavlich, guy benson and matt welch. i think this young wofnl and is fantastic because she doesn't put herself in a position where she is truly challenged. even margaret hoofer who got the best of her on israel. >> i would love to see ben

shapiro debate her. she is not barack obama. she doesn't have the charisma if she is peddling something that she doesn't back up with any plan at all. i want to comment on the funerals. exactly the opposite happens. hundreds of people die every month in britain as at result of the nationalist healthcare system prompting more funerals. when it comes to her moving forward. i think democrats are trying to get her off the global, international stage. all the moderates running in districts trump won are dying to get off the question whether they support socialism. kennedy: you have publications like vox saying her plains untenable. i know she had a big victory over an establishment democrat

and it was an exciting moment many were hoping would be pivotal. but there is something missing here. >> knowledge. i watched the funeral thing. and it took me a few re-runs to make sure she was advancing this argument. i just wanted -- i guilt was cnn. if it happened on our network. i would want a fox news alert to swoop in, bomb, everyone dies. that is a fact of life period. kennedy: what are we work those costs into? >> i think if she were a conservative woman with this exact skill set and degree of knowledge she would be an object of universal ridicule. but she is on the right team. kennedy: she is like a beauty pageant contestant. >> when is the last time

democrats had someone under the age of 75 getting people to the polls. 's part of it. you go to the democratic conventions with me. and it's sad. they don't have young talent. by the shows i think that bernie sanders has taken the party, he crystallized a sense there, an untethering from any sense of realistic policies. bill clinton had a great line. the problem with republican economics is math. democrats have stopped talking about that. they stopped trying to get this stuff to add up. hillary clinton criticized bernie sanders for not having his medicare add up. then by the end of the campaign she was adopting that same language. kennedy: ocasio-cortez dismisses

the study saying this is illegitimate because the kochs paid for it which isn't true. vox and the urban institute came up with the same number. >> they don't want to talk about the reality of what there is costs the country and the detrimental care the patients would get piments one thing talk about the numbers and debt. they aren't acting as if you access better care, we have seen evidence in other countries, cuba, venezuela, canada, the va. kennedy: bernie sanders's vermont, they couldn't afford the program. in california, it's $400 billion. in koilt's $25 billion -- in colorado it's $25 billion.

ocasio-cortez appears in a new film by her extremely wealthy socialist friend michael moore. it's so clever. it looks like a beaut. >> how did this snap. >> the american dream is dead. stop resisting. >> the president's powers here are beyond question. ladies and gentlemen, the last president of the united states. [♪] kennedy: that's so deep. it shows people the grave danger of the trump presidency. will this latest project flop as much as his broadway show?

>> no. we'll step back and say are we being grifted? this chum bait being served. a lot of people are making money by tweaking the levers of people's passion and hatred. he should have called the last president. but that's repeating a title he has gone before. >> it can't be a grift if the marks want it. let me shell over $20 to see this nonsense tblim. part of trump's super power is he creates lunacy among the people who oppose him. kennedy: does this buy into that lunacy? >> yes, when you are saying this is the last president. this is the fever dream that elections will be canceled because of the evil people who

are currently in power. come on, man, we'll have another president one dane he or she will be elected properly and this only serve -- kennedy: meathead rob reiner said the mid-terms will be the most of important election of his lifetime. >> maybe not. i don't think that's probably true. i think we have seen enough of michael moore on camera. he should thank the president for keeping him employed. his goal is to show the danger of donald trump it's nothing new. kennedy: michael moore is the one who called his election. he said there were so many voters who were underserved, and was right. the city of chicago is in

crisis. hundreds killed so far this year. president trump says poor leadership is to blame. , wells fargo has supported community organizations like united way, non-profits like the american red cross, and our nation's veterans. we knew helping our communities was important then. and we know it's even more important today. so we're stepping up to volunteer more and donate over a million dollars every day. so our communities can be even stronger. it's a new day at wells fargo. but it's a lot like our first day. ♪ hawaii is in the middle of the pacific ocean.

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of office. this past weekend 12 people died and 70 others wounded. 60 people have been shot this year. so what is the solution? let me bring in campus reform editor-in-chief lawrence jones. you are from a part of the country where there are a lot of guns. but people aren't killing each other like they are in chicago. what is going on in chicago that's causing so much carnage? >> part of it is the gun laws. there is so much poverty and gang violence. part of it is there is a lack of leadership and people think sending the federal government in is going to somehow improve the relationship in those communities. at the end of the day, rahm emanuel and the city council need to do their job and just

lead. i don't understand how these people continue to get elected. kennedy: is there a disconnect between the community and its leaders. >> i think enforcement is part of the problem. but there have been other issues. i'm not going pretend like to hasn't been corruption in the chicago police department. but there have been corruptions in is a poor relationship between the community in is a no snitch policy that results in a lot of young people hat look like me dieing in the community because there isn't a relationship. people keep saying towrnt faith-based leaders, but they have been silent on this issue. at the end of the day, the officers need to be embedded within the community. they shouldn't be just showing up when there is a crime.

they need to be there before a crime is ever committed. kennedy: people need to have conversations about the sanctity of life. we have to find out how much prohibition is causing this and exacerbating this. gangs spring from something. >> that's right. the poverty, the hopelessness in the community. that's why i think those proposing. -- there are a lot of people on the right proposing sending in the national guard. that's shortcut. and there is no shortcut to improving the relationship. >> it doesn't address the causes. and i talked about this on outnumbered. when you have prohibition of guns and drugs and you have a state and a city run by corrupt unions, and you have got people leaving in droves, you have got a recipe for detroit. >> it's a trash fire there,

kennedy. and until they improve the community at large, not just the police issue and gun violence issue. they have to tackle the heart of the problem, then you will see the community improve. the lexus performance line is tested the equivalent of up to 24 laps around the world. experience an unrivaled feel for any road at the lexus golden opportunity sales event. experience amazing at your lexus dealer. you shouldn't be rushed into booking a hotel. with expedia's add-on advantage, booking a flight unlocks discounts on select hotels until the day you leave for your trip. add-on advantage. only when you book with expedia.

kennedy: the department of homeland security busted five people trapped in counterfeit air jordans. the internet is furious. lace them up. this is the "topical storm." topic number one. we begin in the fun house that is florida. where even the bears are now getting trashed. look at this. this little fella broke into the garage after local tv host and stole her trash. if you google tv host and trash, every story is about samantha bee. i'm kirgd. but this guy isn't. he broke through a bear-proof garbage can, smashed the lock and ran off into the woods where

there was nobody to take it from him except hillary clinton. police say it's a miracle nobody got bit. topic number two. chicago may be the second city. but they are about to get the first piece of the pie. i'm talking about the first ever united states pizza museum. new yorkers are furious with the location and claim they got robbed. but if we are being honest, no one has been robbed more than comi chicago's pizza delivery guys. it features pizza memorabilia. and it will have items from woods like pizza. little ceasars. if you plan on going, you should know there is no restaurant on the premises. because it's not like people would be hungry after look at a

mile of pizza. visit their gift shop where they have dozens of playboy magazines that only contained the articles. the internet is divide over which city should host the museum. new york or chicago. topic number three. speak of burgers. the arizona cardinals are selling a 7-pound hamburger. they have never won a super bowl. but who needs heart-stopping plays when you have got heart-stopping food. this is called the grid iron burger it contains one pound of beef patties, five hot dogs and 20 slices of cheese. anyone can kneel for the national anthem but it takes a real hero to kneel for the whole

game. estimates put the burger at 8,6700 calories. not that it mattered, because if you cared about your well-being, you wouldn't be rooting for the cardinals in the first place. the gridiron burger, $75. topic number four. we do a lot of side criminal stories in the this segment. but this fella is a real dummy. police apprehended this guy after a group of pranksters left him in the road to scare drivers. from what i hear, his wife is an absolute doll. while it is an odd story, it's

nice to see a dummy making headlines besides alexandria ocasio-cortez. topic number five. they say a broken clock is trite twice a day. which is a few more than the jerks who write to the show. and then there is you. this is viewer mail. debbie kicked things off with no everyone gets your sense of humor. i know i don't. mike tweets, montgomery, quit bsing us, you are not as smart as you think you are. jim writes. turned on kennedy top watch led zepplin and had a flashback and woke to politics. gop soccer brings it home with some advice.

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hundred roads named "park" in the u.s. it's america's most popular street name. but allstate agents know that's where the similarity stops. if you're on park street in reno, nevada, the high winds of the washoe zephyr could damage your siding. and that's very different than living on park ave in sheboygan, wisconsin, where ice dams could cause water damage. but no matter what park you live on, one of 10,000 local allstate agents knows yours. now that you know the truth, are you in good hands? kennedy: thank you so much for watching the very best however your day. you can follow me on twitter and instagram. email kennedyfbn@foxbusiness.com. and i wanted to say a special thank you to our college

associate kirks a rice who knocked it out of the park. she was a delight and such a hard worker. and it shows dreams can come true. you can work on this show. she was the oonlt one who did. what is going on?" >> ...a norman rockwell shocker. >> is it a fake? >> well, this was the question that was in everyone's mind. >> oh, if these walls could talk. >> i want you to put your hands like this, and we're going to pull it toward me. >> aah! >> there you go. >> oh, my goodness. >> keep going. ♪ [ door creaks ] [ wind howls ] [ thunder rumbles ] [ bird caws ] ♪ >> i'm jamie colby in arlington, vermont, once home to norman rockwell. it was also home to a man who left hld