connell: hilleary von amped up salty mode. while we are thinking people, thank you cheryl for staying up late. we will see you there. 5:00 a.m. "bulls & bears" comes right now. >> hi, everybody. thanks for joining us. i am david asman. joining me on the panel today we've got the a-team, gary b. smith, steve lee and chris morris is with us. we have art laffer titled trump annan makes inside the america. first plan to revive our economy. our market needs revising. the dow plunging 551 points today dragged down by a tech wreck. the dow and s&p completely erasing their 28 teen and here's what the president said about the markets a moment ago. take a listen. >> is a country were doing

great. our unemployment is at a record low. look at all of the different statistics. i think that tech stocks have some problems but that will come back. i think we're going to do very well. >> is the president right? when you think? >> no, i don't think so. this is a correction in a bull market run. a lot of money out there. just through to other sectors come utility, and that if you really want to see a bear market, money has to come off the table and i haven't seen not just yet. >> i must ask for the long run guy. that might be right that the market has a bit to fall so, but if you buy stocks at the prices and hold on for five years will be very happy. >> i worry we are going to be three in a row and that means we will be definitely on the wrong side. i think susan said, you know, we are just in correction mode. kind of have to agree with that.

times like this i going to kind of ostrich mode. the worse it gets, the less i look. i'm not even going to look at them now. one of the stocks i own a few years from now, so i'll stick my head deeper into the sand and pull it out and hopefully all this carnage is over. i think the fundamentals are strong. >> that's one way to do it. bury their head in the sand. it's a lot of turmoil in these markets. when morgan stanley analyst out there who think the bull market is already over. here we go, singing and writing, and i quote, we are in a bear market. the market is speaking loudly. the bad news is coming. i'm going to say first of all, i think there is occasionally this divorce between the markets and the economy overall. we've got low unemployment. which is finally going up a

little bit. gdp growing at a decent clip. what this analyst is the fact way saying is there's more bad news coming. the economy or the market. they are kind of different. >> there was a report earlier this week at goldman sachs who says it will be less than 2% next year. i think that's completely false. looking at the fundamentals of the economy and they look so strong. manufacturing is good. you know, why would there be the slowdown. one area where i agree with donald trump by the way, i think he was exactly right. the fed tightened too much and the scent they are talking about in the interest rate i think that spooked investors and i think the fed overplayed it. >> i'm wondering if the fed is completely blind to the stock market. it wasn't certainly during denver naki. it is clear they were paying attention to what the stock market was doing and acted

accordingly. is it likely that this fed is going to do the same or not? >> i hope it is. i hope the fed is blind to everything except inflation out there. unfortunately, i don't think that the case. the fed feels now its mandate to somehow pull the strings and levers and be like the "wizard of oz" behind the scene, micromanaging the economy. >> they've always felt like that. i don't think that's anything new. >> absolutely not new. as they become more and more embracing their powers if you will, they care more and more about all these other things that are going on. >> how many more bull markets will the fed kill? >> the answer is look, my fundamental disagreement with the fed is their growth of the acts.

they believe that growth causes inflation. you and i devoted her whole life trying to dispute that. growth does not cause inflation. >> the overheated economy. >> you remember reagan. >> i have a question for you. so what really does cause the inflation? >> i'm old-fashioned. i go back to paul volcker. he is essentially a commodities index to indicate whether inflation -- commodities are what we should look at. maybe the rest of you can dispute this. if you look at commodity prices they are falling, not rising. someone tell me how that's an indicator of inflation. i don't see it. >> you've got wages a little bit. i would argue, we all deserve a little here. america doesn't have any for 30

years. >> i definitely agree. you look at the three pillars of the economy. i was think it's housing crisis, which are still in jena. wages which are growing and the unemployment rate. you have those three things. the economy is in good shape. it sounds like you're coming from my perspective. they can plug all these numbers into an algorithm and have one guy in there pushing a button on their ibm computer that would take care of the fed funds. >> i'm an hundred% agreement. any time the commodity prices rise, then you need -- >> by the way, what's wrong with one economy? >> i'm not a gold guy. why not use a market basket of commodities and follow those. by the way, volcker used that rule in the 80s. it was an official, but you could tell by his actions he was looking at the commodity price index. >> the fed has been unable to

sadly say engineer a soft landing when winners over employment in the economy which is where we're at at this point. there's no inflation. i mean, how do you gauge inflation at this point? the reason the wages have not gone up in the past 10 years is because inflation hasn't gone up. so what is the fed reacting to? >> let me just add something. i hope that the trump economic plan together. our whole goal was higher wages. how do we get higher wages if every time we get an increase in wages the fed says we've got a poll that. >> used to be an economist agreed on one thing and one thing only which is the definition of inflation. too much money chasing too few goods. the only danger i think is the trade situation got so bad -- that could cause inflation. >> i may understand the market may have some i look at the selloff and the reacting to concerns about that. that is not in the here and now.

i look at mr. powell there at the fed and i just question whether he feels using a certain amount of pressure to move no matter what because the president beginning i think in his interview with me about five weeks ago said that the fed was his biggest threat. >> the irony is he didn't get what he wanted. i agree with 95% of what you said. the one area i am concerned about you mentioned it's housing. the housing numbers don't look good to me and i thought you said you thought they looked pretty good. >> i guess it depends on what you feel good. there was an historic -- well, no. look, housing has leveled off. i think we are out of the bubble. home prices still increase. that is why my definition of

good. i want to get back in touch on one point, that inflation point. what people forget is they look at a fixed basket of goods. i think what a lot of people are forgetting is there's so many choices for people. they don't have to buy that basket of goods. back when we all were shopping in supermarkets, when we were growing up, you didn't have 25,000. you had a very limited number. if we find out -- >> can you see me holding my hand? it's a flip phone is probably 15 years old. this costs $159 now you get an iphone that's 1000 times the power of it and get consumer price index thinks this is the same as the iphone. >> that's just a prop. that's not actually your phone? david: we do have different people saying different things.

different people talking down about the economy right now. jamie dimon was last week saying he thinks 2019 is going to be a stronger year than 2018. >> that's what he said. david: are we going into year that stronger than this year? >> that would be nice. economically. >> that is still pretty darn good. obama gave us 2% growth. >> was gone to leave it at that. it wasn't just tack. retailers getting hammered after an earnings down. is this a bad omen for the holidays? who would know better than the former head of wal-mart. and he is here next.

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david: major retailer slumping big-time after same-store sales disappointed the street target, kohl's, t.j. maxx among the stocks getting hammered today. black friday just around the corner, does this signal a lousy holiday season ahead? former wal-mart ceo bill simon. what is happening to these retailers? >> first, how are you all doing?

happy thanksgiving. it's time to go. i think the sales reports are actually quite good today. target had their best seems our sales and a long time. a little schizophrenia going on in the marketplace because they delivered us on sales growth with investment in e-commerce and had some operating profit impact. amazon does that and they get rewarded in the market just needs time to flesh itself out. they're doing a good job at target and eventually the stock will bounce back. i expect a very, very good black friday. >> though, quick question. we are using retail as too broad an umbrella. it seems to me so many different niches. it's like saying takiff amazon and facebook when they're just two entirely different companies. that brings me to the polls and t.j. maxx. they just seem so different right now. do they need to be more segregated if you will when we talk about retail?

>> yeah, probably so. they operate in different segments a different market and different times. some other things going on. if you take the growth coming out of amazon. wal-mart putting on topline numbers. those three big retailers, they up a lot of oxygen. there's not a lot of room. you can have a robust consumer with those three guys growing there's not a lot of room for other people to grow, too. you've got a look at it and pull apart as he was going on. >> hey, bill. trish regan. very good to see you. in this sort of trump the economy if you would, we've gotten indications out there that the consumer, your average american consumer is feeling more confident, feeling a little bit better. does that continue? you look back to maybe this time last year where people were getting donna says, the letter read in part because of the tax plan. is that momentum going to continue or are you worried about the coming start to the

year? >> thanks, trish. i think it continues. the consumer is really buoyant right now. the tax changes gave them some sort of a jumpstart. incomes are going up. i heard you talk about that in your last segment. i think the consumer stays strong. there's a caveat to that. the crazy stuff that happens in the political world, the geopolitical implications of them can sometimes change things. i don't believe the ups and downs in the market impact the consumer very directly. i think they sort of look at that and goat easy come come easy go, let's press on. i expect the consumer to remain buoyant. >> hi, bill. steve moore here. bernie sanders doesn't like wal-mart too much. you've seen the bill he has to rein in wal-mart. so, and what you make of that? is this holding back the stock value? either way, wal-mart just

recently raised the minimum wage. not sure what he so angry about. >> i think this is bernie trying to get press. he feels like it worked for him with amazon although i'm not sure he directly impacted just decision either. getting some headlines. wal-mart's not pay much attention to it. they stated their plan and they're executing their plan and bernie is grabbing headlines. >> you are not too worried this will become a movement were the retailers have to raise their minimum wage to save $15. that would put a huge dent, with net on the profitability of these companies? >> i don't think it's a movement. the bigger implications are for may which perspective is they've got to compete in a marketplace where wages are going up. you see companies move their minimum wage up not in response to political pressure, but market pressure and that's actually really good thing. i used to tell people all the time i'd love to pay $15 an hour if that's what it took to fill my stores. that would mean we had a buoyant

economy and 4% gdp growth. we have to be happy about it. >> i'm going to continue on steve's line of questioning because recently amazon announced their second headquarters will be between north virginia and also here in new york and long island today. new york mayor bill deblasio was question wide open arms for amazon and then criticize wal-mart for being antiunion, job killer of paying unfair wages. >> yeah, imagine not. you know, wal-mart in new york has had sort of a challenging relationship for a long time. you know, it is surprising to me that, you know, they did fall for the amazon headquarters scam that everybody else seemed to fall for her. the most predictable outcome that you could've imagined. were going to walk at

headquarters and have a beauty contest and it comes down to who's going to pay the most money and we end up in the two most likely places anyway. >> bill, are these people that are running the cities by just raising taxes and raising regulations except when it comes to individual companies like amazon, are they ever going to get it? they keep getting voted in. i can't stand my mayor deblasio. i feel like he's doing just the wrong things. on the other hand, when are voters going to catch up with the reality that the higher you raise your taxes and more regulations you have come in the fewer companies still have working there. >> well, if i could answer that question, maybe i would run for something. i haven't figured that out yet either. the reality is you sort of see it with all the regulation they put particularly on job creators in seattle, and they moved out. while the voters who live there

might keep voting, they are also voting with their wallet and moving out and without real substantial incentives from the city, and i doubt that amazon would've moved there. >> we got more in a particular subject coming out. thank you so much for being here. we really appreciate it. fascinating. >> y to be with you. happy things getting. david: oil down and not as% as president tram makes it clear he's standing with our allies, saudi arabia. impacts on investment and business. stay with us fact is, every insurance company hopes you drive safely. but allstate helps you. with drivewise. feedback that helps you drive safer. and that can lower your cost now that you know the truth... are you in good hands?

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david: really taken it on the chin. a massive 7% today as president trump made it clear that he was sticking by her saudi arabia an ally even after the brutal murder of saudi dissident "washington post" columnist jamal khashoggi. the president saying our economic and military interests in the kingdom are far too

important to abandon. for more, edward lawrence joins us from d.c. edward. >> the president's taken by saudi arabia in the 17 people the u.s. sanction in connection with the death of jamal khashoggi, the white house releasing a statement today saying maybe the crown prince knew about this, say maybe he did, maybe he didn't. the statement goes on to read, our relationship is that the kingdom of saudi arabia. they have been a great ally in our important part against iran. the united states intends to remain a steadfast partner of saudi arabia to ensure the interests of our country israel the crown prince related, stating that he is changing the debate talking about america first aired money, jobs. buying a lot of military equipment from the u.s. >> because it's america first in

me. it's all about america first aired were not going to give up hundreds of billions of dollars in orders and let russia, china and everybody else have them. it's all about for me very simple, america first. reporter: the president saying it's important for the u.s. to stay very close to saudi arabia to stabilize the price of oil. he says that's extremely important. the saudis for their part have five people facing the death penalty. they have 11 facing years in prison and another five in jail. the prosecutor deciding to see whether they will charge are not for them the book is closed. we will see the congress has to say. david: edward lorenz at the white house. so dan, did the president make the right call? >> that's a tough one. this shows you why i wouldn't want to be president. these are the tough decisions because we historically of the country have always stood for something. the united dates of america we have been effectively the world's policeman if you would hear the hegemonic power that

works to enforce what good. this crown prince and what he did is not good. this president certainly did not need this on his plate right now with everything else that's going on. but i think he is struggling because the money involved, sad to say, but that's the reality of it all. your way in the money involved in all those contracts. and what that means for american jobs, i spoke with him about it going back a few weeks. he was concerned. was concerned. he said look, this could be 500,000 jobs were talking about in this country. you weigh those american jobs against what they did to this one individual. i mean, it is a tough thing to wrestle with. the saudi's are some really bad actors and we have to think about do we really want them. what are we going to do with it. >> this is a foreign policy based on realism, not idealism.

i agree with everything you said, but you get rid of the saudi crown prince, would he think of it as an alternative. it could be much worse in terms of human rights. >> i'm going to quote mike pompeo, secretary of state and he was very frank about it. it is a mean, nasty world out there and we have to protect american interests, business and military. there you have it. that's realpolitik. >> i want to go back to something the church said and that was boy, i wouldn't want to be president. rock and a hard place right now. the fact is trump is coming out of a firm his perspective than i understand not. i think that thing you have to weigh, and church said it so appropriately is that for decades we've been the world's policeman, which implies that we put our moral -- we become morally superior to what other

countries think. you look back and more often than not, that's gotten us in trouble. we were morally superior in vietnam in the korean war with so many countries we've imposed our will. it's probably cost us. i know it's cost us billions in military expenses and it's probably cost us business along the line. is this the morally superior judgment he's making? most people would say probably not. >> are used to be in oil relationships. i'm not sure that's part of the equation as much as it used to give in the u.s. is pounding so much oil. in fact, half the world's energy needs in just a few years time. for me it's probably still a political relationship. and long-time ally, one in the middle east today than someone providing a lot of jobs and buying billions of dollars worth in u.s. defense goods.

david: by the way, to that point particularly its $450 billion in outstanding contracts over the next couple years. senator feinstein has weighed in and says she wants to cancel all those contracts. the president then weighed in and said if i cancel those military contracts, guess who's going to sell them? the chinese or the russians. do we really want the chinese to supplant our role in the middle east in terms of saudi arabia in arms? >> no, we don't. i think i can answer that pretty simply. sometimes the simple answer, dare i say, your gut might be the right answer. i mean, this is complicated stuff. i don't envy him having to make these decisions. but he is trying to do what he thinks is vast for the united states and from a military perspective with these alliances and from an economic perspective with these jobs on the line, he's determined that those things are more important than

what they did as heinous and awful as it was to this one individual who was an american citizen. i think this is the dilemma he is confronting. >> the white house street team doubling down on their terms for u.s.-china trade deal. is that another reason why the markets tanking? >> you're not going to get a deal unless it fits american interest or that the key point that president trump is making. the day after chemo shouldn't mean going back to

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david: just 10 days until president trump and chinese president xi made in argentina. there are new concerns in the deal is in jeopardy. so what happens to the already brutalized market if the deal turned sour by november 30th. >> well, i'll tell you what, david did this must be tricky

topic night because it's impossible to guess what these topics what's going to have been. if we definitively, both sides walk out and we have no deal, i guess it depends where the market is at that point. i hope it doesn't drop any further, but it certainly could. larry kudlow white house economic advisor with his thoughts on these talks. >> in a deal between the two countries has got to be an american interests without any question. and it's got to include ip fast. it's got to include changes in ownership. it's not the forced transfer of technology. it's got to go to zero tariffs in 09 tariff barriers. it's got a happen for stability. it's got to have strict timetables. it has to have frankly more than we've seen so far. >> i tell you a comment that sounds like a christmas wish list i put together when i was

about five. i thought he would throw in and we need a pony in there, but i don't think were going to get bad. this sounds again like they are trying to micromanage this trade here. i know especially steve would probably say, we'd be better off with no tariffs between the countries. i just hope these two superpowers can work this thing out. >> this may surprise you. i'm kind of a hardliner on china. i'm with trump on this. david: have you always been? >> china in the last six or seven years has moved in the wrong direction. they were moving more towards capitalism and democracy in the last six or seven years they moved more towards being aggressive and militaristic. much more mercantilist it. they do cheat and steal with impunity. i think this is the battle of our age really.

trump, everything he's asking for here is very reasonable. they should open the markets. they should stop stealing intellectual property. you know, these things are important. knowing trump and i've talked to him a lot about this. pa backing down here. david: what bothers me is we are the ones doing the heavy lifting. there are other countries, other regions like europe who have just as many complain as we do. >> they've got to get these trade deals done and that's why i feel better about where he is today than six or nine months ago. the canada, mexico deal despite some of its flaws is a big deal. if he cannot take europe and britain and japan and these other countries on our side, they are the bad actor here. no doubt about it. >> yeah, for sure. it's just not right. i sound like what we've heard him say that they really have taken so much advantage of that. i think that the problem is too many corporate ceos have wanted to have business over

there. you think about a ceo and his or her obligation to profitability in a given quarter. so they are not thinking tenures out. they're not thinking 20 years out. the chinese are, but our corporations are thinking quarter to quarter to quarter. that is when you need government. this is where government comes in kind of handy. comes in and says let's think about this strategically. where do we want to be as a country 10 years from now. whatever quarterly profits we can get out of china is not worth it. it's not worth it because they're going to steal our technology and our technology is what's going to power our future. >> but my question to both of you is this. let's stipulate that everything you said about china, we will put them in the bad guy category. bad guys. and then we have trade on the other side. how are the terrorists going to

fix the bad guy problem? >> i'll tell you what donald trump has told me many times. he basically thinks that china can't grow without access to the u.s. consumer market. he's right about that. i've always said, you know, if we can trade with china, they catch pneumonia. their economy has been hit hard by these terrorists and it comes down to almost a question of what's their pain threshold. david: there's one person here who lived there and that is susan li. it is a dictatorship. there's no for your elections every year for the leader of china. i want to point out that it came out today bears a research report that came out to say that basically china is feeling the brunt of these terrorists at this point. they are feeling it because it's not inelastic for chinese made

goods. >> the media never reports that. >> we talk about it a lot. >> you don't see them. "the wall street journal" doesn't cover that. "the new york times" doesn't. david: susan li does your >> you're the only one thank goodness. >> as gary said there might be some downside risk as they walk away from the table but there's potential for a lot of upside risk if there are simulations in some sort of what comes out next week. david: let's hope it happens. thank you. is amazon sending a warning shot to all the cities raising their taxes? we will debate that next.

david: everybody knows by now new york and virginia are amazon's big winners in the age to? announcement. a seattle turned out to be a loser already since the announcement of home sales are falling? is amazon sending a warning shot that they could bolt from seattle at the city keeps raising taxes on them? what do you think? >> they should. it's not rocket science. you want to be at the business and the environment favorable to business. this is the reason why it's so

important the president was able to lower the tax rate, the corporate tax rate. remember all the shotgun corporate marriages where you had an american company getting together with a company in ireland and had nothing to do with actually wanting to buy that company. it was all about getting the better tax rate. this happened whether it's on the national level, international level or local level. it should be a warning absolutely. >> i write a book every year old rich states, poor states. we have an index of where the best places to invest are in for companies to move to. you're not going to be surprised if florida, texas, tennessee, utah and bottom of the list i hate to tell you this, connecticut, new jersey, new york. does this stuff matter? a thousand people every day are moving out of the liberal high tax blue states and moving into the low tax states. david: suzanne.

>> i thought it was scary. david: i was waiting for you. >> i was thinking about the taxes here in new york. i think new york is pretty uncompetitive when it comes to the corporate tax rate. on top of that, the restrictions on the laws. if you're not getting 48,000 from the new york government i have no idea. >> well, i guess my perspective after thinking is a little bit different. i think seattle is doing themselves harm of course by raising taxes. on the flipside, i think seattle should be allowed to do what it wants to do. look at the history of cities and towns that have tied themselves to accompany. inevitably it ends in june. i was looking at endicott, new york. it has a smaller population than it did in the 50s.

of course titusville to bethel and steel. only now has a population that is equal to what it was in the 60s. seattle is making a mistake and we kicked it off here. amazon should feel free to go. that's the capitalistic. >> i want to show us a counter example there is cities who lost their population, lost their businesses like pittsburgh and has made tremendous comebacks because they find out what incentives are. it's all about incentives. if you believe in incentives, if you make it easier for businesses to do work there, you'll get more businesses. as you said, not rocket science. >> specific enough for per se amazon. we are going to lower the corporate tax rate. i would like to see that because it's an equitable environment as

opposed to the government picking winners and losers. >> but it's not going to happen? >> look, very clear it's exactly what trish said. the states that are winning, you know, the race for businesses and investment capital are the states that have a good regulatory climate. this stuff is not complicated. in new york, new jersey and connecticut i was so disappointed what happened and the connecticut governor's race because new jersey is in a change or die situation. my home state of illinois. david: connecticut by the way was a republican governor who is one that instituted state income taxes. it's a bipartisan thing. enough blame to go around. >> where i grew up and live free or die new hampshire. and they're right. they can all agree on one thing. i'm not kidding. anybody you talk to a democrat

will tell you government has the government will spend. there's a sense of fiscal conservatism and they have no interest in him are allowing >> new hampshire spends one half on state and local government. >> in at the services are better. >> we came just a hair's breath from having a governor of florida who would want to raise corporate taxes and probably eventually want to institute a state income tax. >> that's what a scary about the world in which we live right now. going back earlier, my only point was yes, cities, states, countries should level the playing field. when you start coddling to one specific -- i worry to be honest with you about crystal city. they have spent billions of dollars. who knows that amazon's even going to be around 20 years from

now. that's how slippery these things change. >> that is actually the mobility of our economy is one of the winning points but that's for another discussion. bernie sanders tried to steal president trump center and drug races. will his plan to kill any new drug development forever in the united states? wait until you hear about this coming next. so a tree falls on your brand-new car and totals it. and as if that wasn't bad enough, now your insurance won't replace it outright because of depreciation. if your insurance won't replace your car, what good is it? you'd be better off just taking your money and throwing it right into the harbor. i'm regret that. with new car replacement, if your brand-new car gets totaled, liberty mutual will pay the entire value plus depreciation. liberty mutual insurance. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ and now you know.ed- jardiance is the only type 2 diabetes pill ..

david: bernie sanders trying to one-up the president on patents if they have priced that are excessive. is eliminating patent rights on drugdrugs going too far? >> yes! >> alzheimer's, ms, epilepsy. parkinson's. you want to give companies an incentive to run the "race for the cure." trish prr my goodness. this is the reality of socialism. they don't get that people actually have to work hard to

come up with these things that everybody loves. why would you work so hard to create a drug if you don't get something for it. if somebody else can reverse engineer it because you have no copy right or patent protection, then it's not worth it. we won't have that creativity and fuel to our drug industry if we don't have the patents. >> i can't believe i'm going to say this. in one small respect sanders has it right. not that the government decides the price. but the reason the drug prices are as high as they are. it's not the patents. it's the length of the patents. they are exten extend -- they ad

sometimes two or three years. you can't have them extend for 50-60 years. sanders has that part right. but not the government deciding based on the price. >> i'm in favor of 15-year patents. >> a lot of these drug manufacturers have in perpetuity. >> you are spending billions in research and r & d. it will bring down drug prices, but not in america it's happening elsewhere. david: price controls cause shortages. stripping away patent rights would create and d.e.a. rth ne.

>> american pay the full cost of the drugs and the other countries are free riders. trump has to get tough with these companies and say you have to honor our patents because that leads to more innovation. david: the idea of what is excessive. we have seen examples of it. we have seen drug companies that take advantage of their particular expertise or patent. but that's the role of the press. if you have a committee that decides what a drug or other product is worth, you will have a mess. trish: for sure. you will have a mess. steve mentioned the countries need to start paying and honor

our patents. what about the drug companies themselves? why are they selling it on the cheap? david: i am not going to give him a chance to answer because i want to promote "trish regan primetime." 8:00 p.m. tonight. president trump: i'm extremely happy with our country. it's maybe it best economy we have ever had. >> these policies with weaken our economy and explode deficits and ultimately steer us in the direction of a great depression. >> in terms of the bonus corporate america received versus the crumbs that they are giving to workers to put the schmooze on is so pathetic. >> don't let a