>> i would say -- you have federal hall across the street. visiting new york it is not as crowded as rockefeller center. anyway, thank you for joining us. >> "bulls & bears" starts right now. >> hi everybody this is "bulls & bears" think of joining us. i am david asman. today we have charles payne, tracy carrasco, lauren simonetti and gary b smith. the president is on his way to argentina for the g 20 summit. he will be landing a couple of short hours from now where he will once again, be on the global stage the next couple days will be crucial with potential for some major market moving headlines. our own blake is live in buenos aires with headlines from the

president and a preview of more week and we can expect. what i'm looking forward to our hearing about blake, is a meeting where peter navarro will be in the room with the chinese president. tell us more. reporter: are one meeting that is getting expanded and another meeting that is being canceled. lots of movement before the president has even gotten here to argentina for the g 20 summit. he tweeted today canceled his meeting with the russian president, vladimir putin. he fired off a tweet say he would not be meeting with blood dripping because of the escalations in the waters off of crimea against ukraine. one meeting that is most certainly going to happen though is the dinner saturday evening between president trump and the chinese president, xi jinping. the president today though, cast a bit of doubt as it relates to any potential breakthrough. that could come at that dinner

between him and the chinese leader. watch. >> i think we are very close to doing something with china but i do not know that i want to do it because what we have right now is billions and billions of dollars coming into the united states. in the form of tariffs or taxes. so i really don't know what i will tell you that i think china wants to strike a deal. i'm open to making a deal. i would like the deal right we have right now. >> you mentioned peter navarro, the white house telling us that he will indeed be by the presidents side and be one of the attendees at the dinner saturday night along with president xi jinping and his chinese counterparts. you had with the president said going into the meeting. and i having peter navarro, the author of the book called death by china, at the meeting, certainly gives you an idea of where the president stands going into it. david: but he will not be the only one. it will be all the architects,

and others so he will have the entire team there. and so, what is the thinking out there that this could maybe be a good move that this is my team and if we could cut a deal here, while in front of peter navarro perhaps, he will not talk me out of it later. >> look, there certainly voices within the administration on both sides, right? he has the light eiser and navarro wing. and steve mnuchin and others. earlier this week we were told when it was told to us that peter navarro would not be going, do not read into that because peter navarro has not gone to any of these world forms the president has been to a handful of them by now and peter navarro has never been by his side. don't really make anything too much about that.

now we are finding that peter navarro is, indeed going. so very clearly, something happened here over the last day or so. and it probably started with the president clearly wants navarro by his side. >> when that happens, we saw the doubtful little bit. we found out that no navarro was indeed, attending. we are hopeful in the stock market is hopeful at times of a deal. it is an indicator of popularity of the president. but the president did not care about that, right? what is the likeliness that we do get a breakthrough deal, if you will, with china? what are you hearing where you are? >> for people who i speak with were as close as you get to the negotiations, i will break it down like this. in honor of the show, there are bulls and bears within the ministration. as it relates to the deal getting done. i was speaking with one quote - unquote bear he said look, the structural issues are there. there are large, have been

there for years. one dinner party is not going to change that. there are others though, the bulls who say, this is president trump, do not doubt him. this is something the president wants and he has talked about it for years. so that could potentially be some sort of breakthrough but i think of when you cut through all of that, if there is a breakthrough, the issues here are so big and so large that any sort of breakthrough would be sort of incremental and not necessarily monumental. >> i think for the market so we are looking at the risk to the upside pin markets on monday will be reactive regardless of what we do. i think a lot of the bad news is already kind of priced in. we will be watching that but i think really, neither side wants to appear weak. and we been getting mixed messages a little bit along the way this week from the president then he said it was highly unlikely that the u.s. would postpone the rise in existing terrace. then today before he left he said, i am opening to making a deal but frankly i like the deal we have now. does that mean he liked the tariffs? i mean, it is a little

confusing there. >> here is -- it is a little confusing but here is what i always go back to. people who i talked to always say, even though there is all of these voices within the administration, yes, let's go with more tariffs, no, let's not go with more tariffs. we will try to negotiate. at the end of the day, the president has this trade team and the person that makes the decision is the president. everyone will tell you that. and i always remind people, the president 's intuition and his desires will remain to lean on the side of tariffs. and we saw the president sort of throw out that possibility again today before leaving. >> but now we are talking about -- go ahead, gary. >> here are my thoughts i think tracy was saying the markets will react to it. i totally agree but my real question is, should the markets react to it? we've had these tariffs at least some of them in place now for a few months and the recent

gdp has not budged. it is still 3 and a half percent. i have always said, the full effect of the tariffs is such really, i hear the anecdotal evidence. but it is such an insignificant part of our gdp. by 0.2 percent you see them react even a whiff of the fed slowing down on the rate increases. at this point, i think the tariff talk one way or another, unless they say we have a complete agreement, tariffs are wiped away, china and u.s. kumbaya. unless we see something like that i am not sure will really matter. >> there is also the fact that china itself is going through such a downturn not only for the market which preceded what is happening in the economy but the economy itself is having real problems.

that might create some pressure on xi jinping to move. i mean he has just made a big statement trying to become president for life, there's a lot of people there who do not want him to be president for life.that might add to their arsenal against him, political arsenal, right? >> if you're asking me, i would think, yes. but on the other hand they have gone through an economic downturn for really quite a while now. so i would -- >> it accelerated so quickly because -- >> but, and i am certainly not an expert on the chinese mindset. are they at one point, and maybe blake knows the answer to this, at one point, are they going to say, i surrender! or are they just going to dig in and say look, we are basically a state run economy. let the people here suffer, we're not going to back down in this. i don't know the answer to that. >> china is looking -- >> what are you hearing? >> you know, you bring up the

point, david, about the president xi jinping being present for life in president trump has a guaranteed two years in office, potentially six and that is tops. in the chinese, there is some thinking that certainly they could just wait this out for two or maybe even six years. i will tell you this much, we were sitting there with larry kudlow the other day, earlier this week, he was asked by one of my colleagues, why should the chinese take the president seriously? essentially, why not just one of the ramifications be, one just let it all go by the wayside and kind of stiff this one out for a handful of years. and he said they ought to take the present serious. do they? gosh, i don't know.none of us get inside of that one. but that is the thinking at least from the ministration. they think the president should be taken seriously and that china should act accordingly. >> when we threatened these tariffs now on car imports from japan, from germany to allies

and we have a war with them if the tariffs go through, what worries me and i think a lot of people is that you want a lot of countries on your side together in the fight against china, the very unfair trade practices that hurt the u.s. and others as well. and if we are antagonizing germany and japan for instance, my fear is that the trade dispute with china just goes in the wrong direction. does anyone have -- >> i will say that i think we are over all of that, some of the stuff president trump south right now we have the usnca, that is working we are dealing with europe. on think those are issues anymore but i push back on the notion that we have made china this mythical economy and somehow they have gotten centuries to consider this. a century ago they were fighting a peasant war that they lost and had to go to the

rest of the world, and beg for money. either way, the revolution does drive there thinking today. the reason why -- was able to come up and xi jinping is able to tell his people hang in there, imperialists are out to get us again. make no mistake, made in china, 2025, does not suggest there looking to be great b,100 or no but they want to be a preeminent country in the world today.>> patrols you bring up a very good point and you guys have kind of maybe think of this in a new light to maybe china is not thinking 100 years, let's face it. at this point there probably too addicted to mcdonald's hamburgers to go back to the old ways. >> on the plus side, maybe they are thinking, this might just be a two-year problem. if donald trump does not win reelection maybe they say it is a two-year deal and if it is not a two-year deal -- >> thank you very much. call the republicans to stop what he is calling a socialist resurgence in america.

will ask them what is driving the call to action coming up next. hi i'm joan lunden.

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of staff writing an op-ed in the wall street journal day with advice to republicans on how to stop the socialist resurgence within the democratic party before it is too late. carl joins us now. you look at some of what people like ocasio-cortez want.she wants to end all carbon fuels, and nuclear energy in just 10 years. something that is pretty much impossible. she wants to have socialized medicine which will cost or completely eliminate any kind of hope for getting the budget under control. aren't these things self-evident? >> we need to make them evident to the american people that this is what they are advocating. another thing she advocates is that we basically make every house and every building in america energy efficient and comfortable. i mean, let's treat this laundry list, there advocating

it, and let's treat it and they will recover their momentum. on sunday in the "washington post", bernie includes a list of free calls, loan forgiveness, medicare for all, guaranteed jobs, guaranteed income. this with the energies inside of the democratic party. republicans will be well advised to not dismiss it with wisecracks and insults but take it apart systematically as bad policy for america, that economics for america and not in keeping with american values. >> karl rove, gary smith, i miss seeing you. it is good to have you on the show. >> thank you for having me. you'll notice i got a warm welcome but -- [laughter] >> i loved your op-ed piece and even throw in, they want i guess, everyone to have a minimum, not a minimum wage, a standard income if you will. here is my concern. all of this to be honest with you, like my kids are now in

their early 30s , they think this sounds fantastic! i mean, this just says mom is apple pie. and the problem has always been that the republicans do just a terrible job in combating it. so it is not that you know we have good arguments and a libertarian -- how are we getting the gop to better, more clearly, -- >> you touch on something important. the young millennials and the generation z should come after them, the animosity towards democratic capitalism and the enthusiasm for socialism is dangerously high and you know, we know how bad the socialism is. we have seen in our lifetime and with china and the soviet union and venezuela and cuba and elsewhere. and so they like the story,

they do not know the reality. we cannot win the argument unless we make the argument. we need to go back to the essentials and make and confront each one of these seriously head on and show why it is wrong for america. and with a particular emphasis on reaching younger voters for they will not necessarily become more conservative simply by getting older. they have to be confronted with the reality of what this means to their lives, their freedom, their choices. and their pocketbook, if you will. >> sir, imagine a little bit more about the enthusiasm amongst millennials and amongst generation z. what more do you carson against? why are they so enthusiastic? i talked to my friends and they are enthusiastic about the new ocasio-cortez, what you say to them? >> treated serially. they really, do you think that we can take relatively

inexpensive sources of energy and replace them with energy sources at cost two or threetim as much of the end energy we have now and not cause people jobs and many of our own pockets. people can afford to live paycheck to paycheck will now see utility bills and gas bills rising dramatically. we need to go back and talk systematically in an organized passionate way about why these things are wrong for america and hopefully out of that will also spring some positive conservative alternatives so they can say rather than doing this, we ought to be doing that. >> i have a question for gary. what are you teaching your kids? that they have all of this and think that this socialism is a great idea! [laughter] my real question would be another one for that socialism did not win in the midterm elections, right? so how is it that of references, they are pushing democrats further to left in

this, how's that possible? >> that's a good example. in june he came up for impeachment, free college, college loan forgiveness, medicare for all, very interested in federal guaranteed job, like the idea of universal income and ted cruz who was a strong conservative, did not take them head on on the issues instead he waited for the fall in then when he said i can't think of anything more american than decided to take the knee, crews hit him. and when he said think law enforcement is the new jim crow, ted cruz hit him. and those are good and easy and solid hits. but as conservatives we better step back and realize that we are going to lose the argument unless we treat these arguments seriously and it would be better in june when coming out saying i'm in favor of impeachment, if ted cruz had gone on the state saying, there's a big difference between my opponent, is a ready made up his mind he will

impeach the president. i think it's a very serious issue and we should not be playing partisan politics. and when he came out and said i'm in favor medicare for all, say you know what? i don't want the government to in charge of my healthcare. i don't want the abolition of private insurance. i think you're better off negotiating with your employer over coverage -- how will we come up with $32 trillion to pay for it. this should been made consistently throughout the campaign in a red state like the one i live in, texas, i suspect his margin despite personal shortcomings that ted has, it would have been a much bigger margin had he made on the issues and not the snappy comments that robert francis overworked has got himself into trouble over. >> not just the thin margins there but the thin margin georgia and in florida and republicans think that they pushed back to socialism that they are making a huge mistake. >> they haven't. >> is when i pet peeves i'm glad that you wrote the

article. i think is a termination of republicans and corporate america, the third quarter corporate america made 2.1 trillion dollars paid with a t. general motors had the biggest average selling price everett net income, 2.5 billion a year and they lost 3 billion. what do they tell the american public? we will fire people. i will tell you right now, these young people are looking and saying, look at the greed. even when president trump draft of the new nafta, what does the economic purist, conservative purist say? we don't like the deal, let's bring in more jobs to america and it will make that product more expensive read between the lines, you don't care about the consumer that is just some young person telling me, you're worried about the corporate bottom line that we see through it and we don't like it. >> look, gm timing was terrible. but you mention the consumer, the problem for gm was the consumers were not buying the automobiles -- [multiple speakers] >> it sounds funny when the conservatives suggested they

consider about the consumer people really believe all they care about is the corporate bottom line. >> okay, fine. my point was that companies in america will have to deal with the consumer and if the consumer is not buying what they are selling the better figure out how they can make with the consumer wants to buy. >> two different things and talk about a political point of view. how do you tell someone 19 years older 22 years out of college, may be struggling a little bit, the corporate marketing $2.1 trillion , companies are laying off people and buying back billions of their own stock in that the system is fair.how do you explain that the system is fair? >> look, it is fair because this is the decision of millions of individual consumers. and the investors in the companies. you are right, we have to make a defense of capitalism. hope you're not suggesting that socialism the government steps into determine where you're going to hire people and dictate that that is the way to

go. you have to say, just like you would not like to be dictated to in your life, a free market is a better way to achieve prosperity. look at what it has done. >> give a lot of money and people see that. we talked about this, 18 to 29 years old, only 45 percent c capitalism positive. 2010, 68 percent did. i'm trying to say that we are talking about articulating a message. i'm not advocating for socialism. but i see the writing on the wall. and this is not the first time this has happened. the reason bismarck set up a social security system, it was not that he believed in it. he did it because socialism was so powerful they had to give them something. i'm saying, what do the folks in charge of the status quo, the people who were very wealthy, the people that have it 2.1 trillion due to pushback on the ocasio-cortez of the world? >> they need to make a principled case. let's go back to what started you off on the direction which is gm closing the plants.

gm should have thought this thing through. the first thing is if you're going to close a plant that is to have an alternative what you're going to do is there something else you can do that. is there something else you can do to make sure the people have a job and if you're going to ultimately be forced to close the plant, please, do not close it less than one month before christmas. think about what that is doing mentally to all of those people. business does have responsibility to think carefully about the decisions but free markets are the way to go. >> we are going to share a cell phone numbers with each other after the show so you can continue this conversation for the next four or five hours. coming up, facebook being called out for a new batch of internal emails in which they discuss charging for personal data. but should the struggling company get credit for something that they did not do? details next.

>> facebook catching a lot of flak for the release of internal emails showing that they considered charging

companies for personal user data several years ago. the study suggest this flew in the face of the zuckerberg claim before congress that facebook quote - doesn't sell data. but shouldn't the company get credit for the fact that they ultimatelydecided against selli the user data to some of -- as some of the competitors do. >> no. there company want to try to have all this information and personal data they collected. you can understand that. the fact that they didn't do anything with it doesn't mean the intent was not there. so they should not get credit for it. i think it brings up the point with the cambridge analytica scandal, so they have all of this information from this 2.27 billion monthly users so consumers and regulars want to know, what are they doing with the information? i think it is still the question a lot of people have. and i do not think they should get credit for it. number. >> i'm going to come at it from

a get off my lawn old guy perspective. i suppose. i don't really care! [laughter] i don't understand all of this fuss about facebook, what they do with their data, what they don't want to do with their data. look at, i shopped at supermarkets for years at the safeway, they had a customer loyalty card. i'm sure they sold my data. who cares? they are a private company. i don't care what facebook does with my data or doesn't do with my data. whether they get credit for it, they make money. i can choose not to use facebook. in fact, in a lot of people out there are using facebook less and less. there are a private company that can do what they want, not a public utility. i know a lot of people in government want to make them a public utility but that is about 798 things to worry about. >> to that point, they can and do do whatever they want.i

think it is daring a company that has grown to be there size, when they were writing the emails it was post-ipo, there struggling and not as big as the users that they have now but they have consistently shown that they can be so carefree and care less, with your personal information and then not show up for certain hearings and it is just this mindset that has to change because investors are sick of it and users, they are sick of it but guess what? you're using instagram and facebook. >> it is a tough one because it is almost everyday a story of social media companies acting badly, right? and i think that since catching up to them, the empty chairs, not showing up but you are right, people put their whole life out there for others to peruse and i think it is so amazing, now one solution might be to either charge people or let them get a piece of the action. i know a lot of companies out there actually putting things together so when your information is sold, you

actually get some form of the money. i think that might satisfy everybody since there is an urge to put out there anyway might be nice to get paid for ap request next, what former president obama is taking credit for now. let's take a listen. >> suddenly america is like the biggest oil producer and if -- that was me, people. an august to remember, starts with a december to remember at the lexus december to remember sales event. lease the 2019 es 350 for $399 a month for 36 months. experience amazing at your lexus dealer. for 36 months. ...that's why i've got the power of 1-2-3 medicines with trelegy. the only fda-approved 3-in-1 copd treatment.

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speaking at rice university baker institute 25th anniversary gala in houston taking credit in the heart of oil country of the revival of america's carbon industry. >> i know we are in oil country and we need american energy and by the way, american energy production went up every year i was president. and you know that whole

suddenly america is like the biggest oil producer in the biggest, that was me, people. i just want you to know. [laughter] does he really deserve credit after he imposed some of the biggest regulations the industry has ever seen? what do you think? >> i will tell you what, i do not enjoy the obama presidency but i'm thoroughly enjoying the obama post-presidency! this guy is shameless! i mean he will say anything and you got to love him for it. i mean, talk about -- and maybe it is insecurity or whatever the fact is oil production did go up when he was president. but all on private land! in fact, he shut down the oil production on the public land, what he is talking about, the other part of his comment that i do not think we aired it, he talked about politicians being smug as if somehow, politicians

should again, this one my pet peeves, be involved in the economy. we sat back to long so again, he had nothing to do with the oil but he wants politicians to be involved with something they should not even have their hands in. >> you know, it is funny, post-presidency of barack obama has been fabulous! and he was the president of regulations, regulations, regulations. but the issue with oil, and yes, we have plenty of it here in

the us. one of the legs of his economy as he will call it, of course everyone talks about himself when their president is being responsible out of everything. president trump is or president obama is no exception. he says the same but i see he says the energy policy is one of the legs. is that true, is it one of the reasons the economy is growing so well? >> they talked about the private issue, that was something president obama would not allow drilling or exploration. listen, the regulation, the regulatory roadblocks again, you know -- the use of the climate, the clean air act and the epa as a weapon against industry, particularly the oil industry, you remove that and that is why crude oil -- one of the reasons crude oil is coming down so much. >> yeah, but i want to get back to two quick points.

charles finds it disingenuous. i agree with all of that but here is the, just on a side note. obama is owning this whole politician thing. david, you're exactly right. this is what all the politicians do.he does it with a smile! [laughter] and such joy! i mean, you are right. you scratch your head but i guess, maybe i am like i just have to laugh. the other part that trump is doing, all politicians want to seem to do something. they seem to want to manage and trump is almost, other than the trade stuff which i think is totally scoring up but on the flipside, about the only thing they can do regarding the economy is get out of the way. he has cut more regulations than almost any or probably any president that we have had. that is what government should be doing. getting out of the way. that is what obama did not do. he imposed more regulations, would put a chokehold on the

economy. that is why we went through eight years of the obama malaise economy. >> what to make of the president's twitter account? i think he influences the economy in many different respects, particularly gasoline that comes tomorrow with tweets he sends. >> he definitely, with saudi arabia it was different after jamal khashoggi. they say this came down to canceling prices maybe oil started coming down too late for the midterms but you know, most people, almost everyone in america identifies and loves cheap gasoline. >> the cheapest of the year right now. merry christmas to everybody! but i do think there are bigger issues of the global economy slowing down . >> coming up from a former treasury secretary, larry summers sounding off on donald trump bed comments. as we preview his interview with jerry baker. that is tomorrow the premier of wall street journal at large. that is coming next.

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kind of political rhetoric about monetary policies really quite dangerous. >> really the issue you basically agree with the president.maybe the fed is in danger -- >> in which the way the president has broken i don't think any economist would agree with but i do think there are more risks of over tightening then under tightening right now. >> that was former treasury secretary, larry summers talking to our very own jerry baker. the host of the wall street journal at large premiering tomorrow on fox business. what about his suggesting that donald trump is increasing and i'm quoting him now, uncertainty premiums. that is increasing by beating up on the fed. you think he's right on that? >> i don't think the president should be interfering with the central bank their job of the central bank obviously is to create stable monetary environment , the central bank is independent. the president's views should not be imposed on what he thinks jerome powell should be

doing. i think when we see that, when we see "bulls & bears" interference it does create confusion in the market. we saw that previously. we saw the volatility when he spoke up against the fed. i don't think that he should be weighing in on what he thinks the fed should be doing. >> it is funny because no one believes the fed like wall street, so -- go to december 15, 2015, -- goes from zero up 25 points, the market crashes, we have the worst start to any year the first 30 days of 2015, the third worst in 100 years! the president has a right to talk about the fed. it may not be something other president did. in fact, we should be asking more questions. how can the independent body have so much power that they can create four and half trillion dollars out of thin air? are they accountable to anybody? because our checks and balances system in the constitution makes every entity vulnerable or accountable to someone except the feds. at the very least, let's audit

them. >> i totally agree with you, charles. i do not care what the president says one way or another.the president's have always had an influence, they basically, only back to nixon having arthur burns on the telephone, if they say something in public or they say it suddenly in private or they elude to it, there will always be an influence on the fed. but charles is on to a bigger point. why are we even and trusting some nameless -- while they are not nameless face but you get my point. a body that reports number two somehow pull the levers of the economy. like they are the super smart people that can forecast the future and no one else can. the feds generally get it wrong more often than they get it right. why can't it just be an algorithm out there? >> no, algorithms are scary, gary. but maybe, president trump should have kept janet yellen on because jay powell is new to

this and when he spoke about the neutral rate and is been close to it on october 3, we saw the stock market tanked. he may have said things evenly had he seen the effect of his words. so you know, he gives an end and the market takes the yard. that is exactly what we saw yesterday when he had those comments and the dow went up. maybe he just does not have the experience in the arena as -- >> by the way, larry summers when he was working for president clinton, working for president obama, i never heard him speak out in favor of higher interest rates. i mean it is only when he's on the outside looking in that he does that. >> but here is my question, going back, why are algorithms dangerous? you are talking about people to have the same darn crystal ball as the man on the street. and the housing crisis, they missed most of the downturns,

they have called 10 of the last three recessions they generally get it wrong. why? because they're human! they are no smarter looking at the future than anyone else. >> gary, you are older than me but i am more old-fashioned than that. i like to trust human beings rather than technology. >> and it was fascinating and everyone should probably go back and watch this. he admitted, gary, that there is nothing out there they can look at to determine the impact of their actions 18 to 24 months from now. >> exactly! >> he admitted this is a shot in the dark in their part. >> microsoft scoring a big contract with the u.s. military today. while more google employees would rather work with china then help protect their own country. is it time to get our priorities straight at google?

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fisher calls regularly so you stay informed. and while some advisors are happy to earn commissions whether you do well or not. fisher investments fees are structured so we do better when you do better. maybe that's why most of our clients come from other money managers. fisher investments. clearly better money management. david: the u.s. army awarded a $480 million contract to microsoft for virtual reality headsets. twice as many google employees signed a letter protesting google's work with the pentagon than they did for providing a censored program for china.

it points to a certain kind of arrogance we get. how we become comfortable when we don't realize the blood, sweat and tears allowing someone to stroll on to the google campus and live the life they live. they need a history lesson. >> they don't have to work there if they don't believe in what the company is doing. google is at the forefront of so many technological advances. if they don't believe in that, they can leave. that's part of where you are working. google is choosing to work with the military. if you can't get behind that -- charles: were they the "do no harm" when they first started? >> yes. >> charles, i disagree with you. what you think google employees should do, i think google

employees should do what google management wants them to do, and that comes from what the board tells them to do, and that comes from what the shareholders want them to do. they can sell their shares or vote in other directors. when i was ate ibm i had to wear a white shirt. i didn't want to wear a white shirt. charles: google encourages this stuff. >> that's fine. the employees are just doing what management tells them to do. >> maybe management should take the jeff bezos management way. maybe you should do the right thing for your country. not nearly the outpouring of credit civil that's google

received for not doing this deal with the pentagon. david: microsoft to me still feels like a new tech company. by -- but i guess it's a new th company:what's going on. >> our democratic colleagues seem to come up with a lot of criticism, but have no answer. >> if there is any shutdown, it's on president trump's back. >> they don't see the bigger picture which is the drug cartels and the transnational criminal organizations. president trump: if we don't get border security, a possible shutdown. liz: the president is gearing up for this fight when he gets back from the g20. build that wall. we have two top legislato