acknowledging it takes place. stuart: we wiped out almost all of yesterday's gain, can't explain it connell mcshane is in for neil connell: the markets went down after president trump tweeted about trade, president trump identified himself as the tariff man. the market seemed to go down after this. we're trying to work through 90 days, to figure out what happens on the other side. dow down 254.

jack mcintyre is here, verdic verugi is also here. jack, go to the latest report, report out of bloomberg the last half hour or so the chinese will crack down on intellectual property theft. is it nobody believes the chinese? >> actionses speak louder than words. my view we move the ball forward. it is necessary to do this but it is not sufficient. other things impact the equity market as well. remember, you had monday's positive rally. you also had a big rally last week based on powell's comments. the market wasn't really oversole going into the trade situation and the story around it. i'm not overly surprised we're selling off. connell: that we gave back the initial rally in the asians

market this year. what about the president today? it depends on what your base case is. maybe you believe what he says, whether it is on twitter or in other venues is basically a negotiating tactic to set himself up. that may very well be the case, or, you look at one of those tweets, the one i mentioned in the middle of quote, unquote tweet storm, that says, quoting him, i am a tariff man. maybe that is what he really believes when it comes to trade. that what is your take? >> while there are questions whether the chinese are serious about this, there are legitimate questions about whether the president is serious about lifting tariffs up. because we're talking about the trade war as if the only place it is taking place is with the chinese but there are actually multiple fronts of this trade battle, however you want to call it. metal tariffs, aluminum and steel tariffs, they apply all

around. there have been some exemptions. when you have the president saying here is what i want to lift the tariffs and turns around, say, oh, by the way i love tariffs. it is bringing revenue. i love tariffs. i am a tariff man. this is not the first time he said it and i just think there sis confusion about the fact that we can actually go at the chinese or attack our trading partners with higher tariffs and do no harm to ourselves. we know that is not true. connell: right. this is the real president trump veronique says. what about the tweet where literally says i'm the tariff man, what about what he says we're taking in billions of tariffs. the other side of that, we're paying at essentially the end of the day, billions of tariffs. american companies, american consumers. what do you say? >> so i think this is part of his style of weaponizing

uncertainty. you know, he will sound very constructive one day. then in the next he will sound, hey, maybe obviously not quite as constructive. that will create obviously a lot of uncertainty in the financial markets. that is kind of the story today. connell: he has to be careful. you're hitting on something. basically to me that is the key debate. that is why there is uncertainty because there are other folks, veronique may be one, he is protectionist, this is how he feels. people like you says he will make a deal at the end of this. we don't really know. maybe veronique that plays to his advantage i don't really know. >> i don't think it really does. what have we gotten? we were made promises trade wars are easy and easy to win. so far we increased tariffs all over the place. it is true the chinese concede

they were going to be more careful about i.p. theft. this is a great thing but let's see whether they do it. the other thing, let's not forget, he caused a ruckus with nafta, the end deal we gotten is barely more liberalization and by a lot of extent on the auto side it's a ton of protectionism. connell: right. >> that is not going to serve us well. connell: final point, jack on that, that you know, that is the criticism of the president, right? that he for all the talk at the end of it you get a deal in the nafta case where the critics say it is not much different than what we had. if you do that with china, you put our farmers and everybody else through a lot of pain and wasn't really worth it. final point. >> you remember, this whole idea high tariffs to get low tariffs. if he can do that obviously will be successful. i disagree. i think the nafta deal was bigger than tweaking it. he closed the backdoor letting chinese goods come into mexico and reexport them to the u.s.

they're not able to do that anymore. connell: another leg down in the market, down 330 on the dow. thanks to both of you, we appreciate it. >> thank you. connell: oklahoma republican congressman mark wayne mullen is up next. thank you for coming on. your interviews in the past, your comments publicly in the past, you supported the president on this trade policy. >> absolutely. connell: may sound, i'm not joking when i can this, when you see him if tweets say i am a tariff man, are you a tariff man? do you identify the same way as the president? >> connell, what he is saying he is not afraid to put on tariffs. if that is our only option to have free or balanced trade, then he is not afraid of putting on tariffs. so i agree with that statement. connell: okay. so is it our only option, a, and if so why? isn't there another course of action we could take wouldn't be as painful for ourselves? i know the president says that we're taking in billions but again to the earlier point, we

were talking about with our guests, at the end of the day we're paying consumers and or companies in the united states we'll end up paying. >> but connell, how much is it costing us? when we allow our intellectual property to be stolen. when we talk about doing trade agreements and labor environment trade agreements are not being lived up except in the united states, it is costing us billions too because when they force our companies to do business with them, and then turn back around and sell the same products to the american consumer that is costing us billions. what the president is trying to do is put us on a free and balanced trade path, which is, which to me is the best path forward. you can already see the economy has responded. connell: right. >> i've seen manufacturing jobs coming back. we see we have a very competitive tax bracket now for businesses to work around the world in. now it is time to have free and balanced trade around the country. when the president starts talking about he is a tariff

man, he is saying look, if you're not going to respect our intellectual property, if you're not going to respect our businesses and our consumers, then if you want to do business about this, this is what we'll do, back to you. connell: one of the things interesting, believe me, we don't think the stock market is the be-all-end-all of anything -- >> sure. connell: especially tick by tick basis. one of the things interesting today is that we had a rally, right? after the meeting in buenos aires. seemed like people were relieved and market went up. sold off a little bit the from the highs yesterday. we went up. now that all faded it away. we've given it all back. we're down 400 even though there is a report out of bloomberg the chinese are announcing they will crack down on intellectual property theft, again on the surface would be a big win for us, for the united states. >> correct. connell: i don't know what is going on? maybe people don't believe them, you know? >> well, i don't, do you, connell?

unless they have something that forces their hand i don't think they will do anything on their own. i think what the president is doing is playing a very strong hand here and we do have the upper hand when it talks about trade because they have to have us. we can get our gadgets someplace else although we want to have a trade agreement with china. we do want to do business with them, when it really comes to it, they need us worse than we need them. connell: that may be true. we need them too. they're a huge economy, number two in the world. you don't want them to go away. >> there isn't any country out that steals more intellectual property than china, any other country, period. a lot from other countries. connell: do you think this will fix it in the 90 days, do you think. >> absolutely not but they have at least coming to the table. they were stonewalling coming to the table. why should they? they had a sweetheart deal with the united states. they can sell all the product they want and our trade deficit continues to increase and they continue to steal intellectual property from our own

businesses. what they're doing, at least they opened the door. this 90 days to me is a great sign both presidents got together, look we'll try figuring this out, because both countries need each other here. connell: good talk, congressman. good discussion back and forth. it's a big issue. >> connell, thank you. connell: thank you, congressman. mark wayne mullen with us. we're right around session lows. come back a little bit. still down almost 400 on the dow. financial stocks are down big. we'll talk about this in relation to interest rates and everything else as we continue. we're down 1 1/2% after the rally yesterday. more in a moment. ♪

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connell: the dow is down almost 430 points, 428 points lower. we've been watching i said before the last break, the movement in interest rates. the 10-year treasury yield, benchmark 10-year note, falling further below 3%. so it is down now to 2.93. money going into bonds, coming out of stocks, pushing interest rates lower. the 30 year yield which is the long bond, the 30-year yield

fallen below its 100 day moving average. when you go below the moving averages on technical basis we see movement there at 3.18. something to watch today as stocks fall further, trade concerns also out there as we've been talking about. we're down nearly 450 on the dow. former hp ceo, carly fiorina joins us now. always good to see you. thank you very much for coming on. we can, i hope continue a discussion we were just having about the president's agenda. i see you make comments about president trump's agenda overall, particularly on the trade issue. he seemed to get a bump at least in wall street's mind, putting a truce in place with china. now we're giving all that back today. he identified himself as a tariff man. what do you think of the way he handled these negotiations? >> i think part of the concern

here that is expressed itself over time is people are wondering are these negotiations show or are they substance? and what i mean by that is, of course, president trump is absolutely right when he says we have a trade imbalance with china. we have things that are going on with china are neither fair nor free and which need to fix it. on the other hand, look what happened for example, with north korea, big show, big show, not a lot of substance. i think the market responded, thought, oh good, president xi and president trump are together and they're saying the same things and we have a truce. as more details came out apparent maybe president trump's version of events and president xi's version of events are different. that suggests we had a nice show but the the substance may be quite different. market doesn't like tariffs because tariffs add costs to

companies. that costs job as we've seen with gm, ford and others. connell: you're definitely right on the key point about, maybe we haven't talked enough about it, but when the two sides put out, essentially press releases after they met in buenos aires they were completely different. if you look and compared them side by side, what the u.s. is saying went down and chinese saying went down may have both been true but highlighted completely different points. that brings up questions in people's mind if they were on the same page. on the point of tariffs, you're making policy, you ran for president, you would look at it, i'm sure, some of what china is doing is unfair but how would you deal with it? we ask this with guests all the time, if not tariffs, then what? >> so the reason tariffs don't work because they end up harming companies, consumers, ultimately workers. we're seeing that with soybean farmers. seeing that with auto producers laying off 15,000, general motors, general motors

estimate the tariffs on steel and aluminum have cost them an additional one billion dollars on the bottom line. that means jobs. so the problem is, tariffs don't work. we've seen that over and over again. what i would do honestly say to china look, you ask us to play by certain rules in your economy we will ask you to play by the same rules in our economy. what that means is, you cannot buy companies 100% as the chinese have been doing in america. you can't list your companies on the new york stock exchange. we'll prevent it from doing so in china. if you want to make an investment in the american economy, you're going to have to get the american government's approval. those are all rules that businesses are forced to play by in china. and china doesn't have to play by those same rules here. i will guarranty you that that would impact china's economic interests, and think would come to the table because ultimately, china cares mostly about their own economic interests. we know that we have allowed them to play by a completely

different set of rules. it is time their rules apply to them. connell: that is interesting. the president argues i guess they're at the table now because of his tariffs but you're saying that is not the case? >> no. i don't think that is the case honestly. i think it is in china's interests to be at the table. they certainly don't like those tariffs in some ways, but as we've seen, they have the ability to punish our own producers, perhaps even more dramatically than we can punish them. look what is happening in the midwest. our producers are being punished. the chinese know how to play that game. it is why tariffs generally lead to slower economic growth. we've seen that before with smoot-hawley after the depression. connell: right. >> tariffs generally lead to higher costs, lower growth and fewer jobs. connell: what do you, what is your overall view, a, the president how he handles the economy? that is where he has his best ratings in the polls. not tremendously popular in

overall approval ratings, some polls he is well over 50% in terms of handling the economy and taxes and next question what is the outlook for the economy next year? that seems to be priced into the markets today as we look at treasurys and some other action. >> that's right and that outlook is not all that rosy. first i would say no question that many of the things that the administration has done have been incredibly good for the economy. tax reform was good for the economy. regulatory reform was good for the economy. there is no question. i personally wish we would get to infrastructure because i think, the right kind of infrastructure programs, structured as a public/private partnership would continue to add growth to this economy. the concern i think is that the estimate laws from tax reform is abating. the stimulus from regulatory reform is already baked in. connell: right.

>> we have obviously deficits that are spiraling now, i would argue out of control. trade issues that are unresolved. costs that are going up for companies in many cases because of tariffs, threat of tariffs. the general outlook is starting to be wow, we had a great economy for the last 18 months. it is not going to continue at that pace. the economy will slow. that is what i think i see priced in. connell: get your view on one other subject before we let you go which is essentially, women in business, especially technology industry michelle obama has a new book out, talking about it a lot, but comments she made about sheryl sandberg of facebook getting a lot of attention. the sheryl sandberg book was called, lean in, sandberg is coming under pressure receiving a decent amount of scrutiny overall. she dropped out of top 10 forbes most powerful list.

the michelle obama comment got a lot of attention, using vulgarity in her comment, the whole lean in stuff, used a different word than stuff, doesn't always work. your view on that on sheryl sandberg. >> michelle obama is absolutely. i said it when the lean in book came out. it is one thing to be harvard-educated pedigreed woman, all women should take the risk of speaking out and leaning in, and everyone should aspire to the ceo's office. those are not risks every woman can take. if you're a single mom with two kids, your job is really important to you, you may think about that calculus differently. so i think the downside in the whole lean in philosophy it applies honestly to a relatively small group of women. connell: yeah. >> i think that is what michelle obama was talking

about. facebook in general is under huge pressure and i think deservedly so because while technology is viewed as a totally different kind of industry. the truth, it is like any other industry. it has consolidated rapidly. there is too much power concentrated in two few companies, google, facebook, amazon, netflix, power concentrated is power abused and people are starting to figure that out, so i don't think sheryl sandberg represents all woman. her philosophy is unrealistic in very many ways and facebook is coming under deserved pressure. if i may connell, one reason i released a podcast called, by example. people are so confused about leadership. they are so confused what is really is, who is really a leader. it is not about fame or position or title. it is actually about but about

people that solve problems. this is on carlyfiorina.com with jay bilsa, they need to start talking about people that solve problems and make things for the better and there are lloyds of people all around. connell: thank you, carly. thank you for coming on. >> thank you. connell: nasdaq down 2% plus i believe. the dow is down 4.55, down 1 and 3/4%. we'll see what happens with this market. that is a steep selloff in the last after hour or so. we're coming right back. ♪

connell: straight down we go, the dow jones industrial average lower by 479, 482 points right now, extending losses as pressurery yields have --

treasury yields further declined. yield on benchmark 10-year note, 2.92%. good to talk to deirdre bolton about stocks and bonds. she is at the new york fed where they have been talking about the economy in lower manhattan, is that right, deirdre? >> that's right, connell. we heard from new york fed president john williams. i will get to that point on the bond market in a minute. the purpose of the meeting with the press just to update us on economic conditions in the region. he more or less mirrored from we heard from fed chairman jay powell, that the u.s. economy is strong. some specific things to new york. they did confirm they're seeing upward pressure on wages, more firms increasing wages. at this moment difficult to tell by how much. to your point, connell, there was a q&a session that followed. the main question was, are you concerned about what looks to be a flattening yield curve, perhaps even one that could

become inverted? as we all know a lot of investors get nervous when they see that, it can sometimes imply there is recession not too far away? here is john williams, what he said in response to that question. >> employment and gdp growth, on, you know, from the other surveys and other indicators, consumer spend having all come in either had or strongest expectations or my strongest expectations or even better. reporter: so we do know that the rates on the longer side, right, are approaching the shorter side which essentially the definition of this flattening. as per what we've been following with the fed funds futures, it does seem as if investors are pricing in an at least an 80% chance even what we're seeing in the bond market for an interest rate hike in december. then of course one next year, same chance of around 80%, connell. connell: what level of concern, deirdre, we're down 559 by the

way on the dow jones industrial average. that is 2.2%. financials are getting hammered. look at some banks, regional banks, they're getting hammered today. talk a little more about the level of concern you're picking up or -- reporter: a level of concern in the room, a big part of q&a, more of john williams' statements was about the risk. why you're seeing the stock market sell-off in response to trade. there is a lot of vagary where exactly we stand. there is question of what does the 90 day freeze in the trade tensions between the u.s. and china start, right? there was even mixed messaging from the administration. he did speak a lot about these sort of trade risks and being ones that could potentially destablize the u.s. economy. so far we have not seen that. as we all know china seems to be at least more hurt in the trade tensions than we have been, but certainly the number one risk

they seem to be monitoring there at the new york fed, connell. connell: makes sense. the 90 days apparently starts with the meetings on the 1st of december. larry kudlow got it wrong yesterday. that is supposedly straightened out. president trump's tweet that he is a tariff man certainly didn't help. we hit technical issues, in the bond market, deirdre, and treasurys as we're down almost 600 right now. reporter: i noted this the three-year t-note surpassed the five-year counter part, right? you build on the anxiety, the idea are we heading into recession. i want to be clear there is no economist i have spoken with who is legitimately concerned about that. even from this conversation this morning all the data points were

underlined, near record unemployment, wage growth for first time in a decade, all kinds of positive strength. people coming off the benches, more people want to work, more people are able to find work. so the underpinnings are strong but yet we are seeing obviously a lot of anxiety show up, both in the stock market, and in the bond market. a lot of that does seem to be macro. seems to be a little bit focused on trade, connell. connell: no doubt. we'll be back. deirdre bolton in new york at the new york fed. former aide to margaret thatcher, nile gardiner is up with us next. what do you make of the president trump being a tariff man after we moved to some sort of a deal with china trade? maybe he is setting up some sort of negotiation, i don't know, but what is your take on that? >> i don't think it's a very good move and markets are reflecting that. when you're talking about tariffs, tariffs are effectively taxes on american consumers.

and markets are going to react very negative against tariffs. a lot of momentum with the g20 and last week as well, a lot of the momentum has been lost today. a discussion of a return to tariffs and a trade war with china this is probably the last thing the markets want to hear right now and i don't think it's a very helpful message to be sending at this moment. connell: you have a pretty good read on global economies. deirdre talked about indicators that a recession may or may not be coming here to the united states, even as we look at the last six months the u.s. is best of the bunch, other economies are struggling more, we hadn'tcations from germany, we hadn'tcations from japan those economies are are struggling. what is your take, kind of on at

global economy? >> the united states is leader in economic growth the last two years and largely because of free market policies implemented by the ad spin -- administration. if there is any reversal and we end up with a trade war with the european union or china, for example, that will have very negative impact. overall the strength of the u.s. economy is, you know, significantly better than that of america's main competitors at this moment. certainly in europe. i would say that you still have a very volatile economic situation. you have potentially looming large on the horizon major economic problems in southern europe. you look at italy, spain, for example, greece. i would also, in france, in

france itself. we're seeing the biggest riots in paris since 1968. we have a deeply unpopular government there that is implementing very, very controversial environmental taxes. connell: right. >> which i think will have a negative impact on the economy in france. so a lot to look out for on the european front. connell: is there a real threat to the, to the leadership there, to emannuel macron in france? i know that is a big move to suspend this gas tax hike. shows you that there is some, pressure was obviously building but, is there a threat to the actual government, to the people in power, especially macron in france do you think? >> well that is a great question. the next french presidential election takes place in 2022 but emannuel macron's position i would say right now is pretty precarious. ace approval ratings whoever between 20 or 30%. is one of the most unpopular french presidents of modern times and he is facing the kinds

of civil unrest in the center of paris we've not seen in about half a century. so this is a president who is you know, whose power and influence is eroding by the day. and i think what we are seeing, forces of both the left and the right now uniting against macron, you're seeing incredible levels of violence on the streets of french cities, and also we're seeing i think just widespread disenchantment, discontent in france. also at a time when unemployment remains very high especially for young people in france. emannuel macron sort of behaves as sort of imperial style napoleon who is deeply out of touch of ordinary french people, who doesn't understand the concerns about french workers, that latest carbon tax idea was politically and economic suicide. now he is backtracking on that. connell: it blew up in his face. nile gardiner, always good to talk to you. >> thank you very much.

connell: the market meantime continues to sell off. we're down 518 points on the dow jones industrial average. nasdaq, the tech stocks, down even more percentagewise. 2% decline today. president of the united states saying on twitter i am a tariff man. that certainly didn't help markets. then you have the bond market, money going in there, and the yields continue to move lower, whether 10-year note or 30 year, we'll come back and talk about all of that. nasdaq with that decline, back in what we call correction territory, down 10% from a recent high. more in a moment. trade after the market closes. it's true. so all... evening long. ooh, so close. yes, but also all... night through its entirety. come on, all... the time from sunset to sunrise. right. but you can trade...

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connell: dow down 2%. the dow is down by 533 points. gerri willis is on the floor of the exchange. president bush's funeral is tomorrow.

market is closed. i'm not sure what that has to do with the way people are playing things but what are you hearing? >> that makes a lot of sense where people can't trade and might be lightening positions that could be happening. national day of morning tomorrow. markets will be closed here. markets may decide, hey i will get out of some of these positions before that happens. they're also talking about china. you mentioned this as well. selloff is beginning 4:00 p.m. caterpillar is down 5.6%. boeing is down 3.5. apple is down significantly here. i have to mention here, apple has bad news on the stock itself. about discounting of handsets that a lot of people are paying attention to. a downgrade on the stock. dow dupont is down. what is up, j&j, coca-cola, proctor & gamble and, they are suffering, businesses are on the

downsize are ones that sell heavily into china. you mentioned before and it is worth noting again, donald trump tweeting today i'm a tariff man. so he is continuing down the path of talking about tariffs, how important tariffs are. they put lighthizer in charge of negotiations on the china deal. he is very, very hardcore, tough on china, kind of negotiator. this is finding a resolution much more difficult. right now people are talking about china as we continue to watch some kind of bottom here. down 522 on the dow. connell, back to you. connell: on top of everything else, i thought heat went out in the exchange. i saw a guy go by in winner hat. >> it is cold, get -- gerri, thank you. todd buchholz is in. you were an economic advisor to president bush 41. let me ask you about that in a

second after we talk about the markets. it is an interesting day. so the president, a lot is being made about this tweet where he says i am a tariff man. a series of tweets, it was four. he started off okay, negotiations with china. they have begun. if we make a deal, that is a fair deal. his larger point was, but, if not i'm a tariff man. i will keep putting tariffs on. we keep putting billions into our country as a result of that. that is his view. what is yours? >> my view is that donald trump is trying to get a deal, you know? if you read nobel-prize winning game theorists, they will tell you three of the main planks of negotiating, are number one, asked for the world, ask for too much, plank number two, act a little nuts, make the other side a little fearful, plank number three, round up some allies. donald trump is pretty good as plank number one and two. maybe he has allies with the new

usmca deal, but this is part of negotiating. understandably the market doesn't like this. you mentioned president george herbert walker bush who i did serve in the white house. there was one steady man. you didn't have to worry that in the middle of the night bush would send out a tweet, first of all there were no tweets at that point in history, secondly he was not the sort of guy to shake things up. this is a very different time a very different president. the stock market has to bite its nails whenever president trump goes into a negotiating session. connell: it is kind of an interesting point. remembrances of president bush there were a lot of positive things said over last couple days about his ability to negotiate with foreign countries on all sorts of different items being going back to the time he was president, u.n. ambassador, envoy to china, whatever it may be. when he was president, not only issues of national security, but issues we're talking about. president bush negotiated nafta.

the pluses and minus of those two strategies, you think it's a different time this type of strategy is more effective or what do you think? >> well, it of course is a different time. there are some people would argue the country is so divided, the world is so divided you need a leader who is icon -- iconoclastic, that is what we have in president trump. neither president trump nor president bush had the people skills ronald reagan had for instance. ronald reagan had the full pallet of colors he could draw from. he could be a tough negotiator and he could be charming. president bush was not quite as tough as negotiator. donald trump, well his charm, is a different sort. connell: too tough i would say. it is interesting because we don't know how all this will end up. so you can't grade his negotiating style on this particular issue because we have

no idea how it ends up but what is a win here? school of thought from some people we've spoken to, what the president will do hammer china on twitter and elsewhere as hard as he possibly can but at the end of the day make some sort of deal that is not 100% different where we are now? if he does that, will it be worth it? there is some pain going on now with farmers and other people in the economy? >> that's right. look i think the elections, the recent elections were rather bracing for the republican party. and i think there is a question of farmers whose income fallen 13% will be sticking with the gop in the next election. i think donald trump does need to reach a deal but the chinese need to make some concessions as well. they can't be going into their own kangaroo courts and ripping off our property. connell: did you see the bloomberg report, they claim

they are cracking down on intellectual property. i don't think anybody believes them but -- >> if you study confucius, i didn't study him in a fortune cookie but you can find a fortune cookie somewhere where con too -- confucius is lovely book to steal. it is part of the philosophy to rip off. it will be hard to get chinese to step away from that policy, getting too deep for us. >> cook whichs are deep? connell: rob part man is here with us. your state is threatened by trade war and implementation of tariffs. what is your view on the latest development today, the president identifying as a tariff man? is that his philosophy or is that a negotiating tactic? >> i think it is both. i think we had a very positive

week in trade, let's be honest. we didn't know what would happen between president trump and president xi. it set up process. we know who is in charge. bob lighthizer will negotiate for us. chinese will make some concession early sparse buying product. longer haul we'll talk about the other issues that have to be talked about in my view. changes in the relationship as far as intellectual property. second the mexico signed the u.s. mexico trade agreement with canada. it has been positive. market are the moving on a lot of different things but overall when the market, the dow hit 26 yesterday, i think that was an indication people saw the positive. now maybe they're seeing it will be hard. it is always hard, particularly negotiating with china. but it is important we're making progress. i'm very please what happened the next few days. connell: trade is complicated to your point. we'll ask but the president's identification as a tariff man is a negotiating tactic or

philosophy. you said both. you may be right. doesn't that worry you as a free trader if that is philosophy, protectionist philosophy outlook? >> i have seen with regard to the nafta deal being revamped that he is willing to figure out how to make a deal. he has done also with south korea in the last several months, which didn't get much notice. that is positive. now with the eu, we have the ability to take a breather and try to negotiate something. he seems to also want to negotiate agreements with japan and england, with the uk. so there is opportunity here i think to actually make progress even though the president may like the idea of tariffs. in his view, may bring more revenue in. the problem with tariffs, when they increase tariffs in other countries they increase them with us. you end up es coolation of higher prices for people i represent, they're trying to buy something. fewer exports for our farmers and workers in ohio. i'm a former u.s. trade representative as you know, i'm not someone who believes it ought to be just unfettered

trade. i think we ought to have strict rules that ought to be enforced but that doesn't mean you can't have trade on level playing field with countries that ought to be our objective. connell: on that idea we're bringing in billions, isn't that a flawed kind of definition how tariffs work? that is basically what you're saying, right? we end up at the end of the day as consumers or american companies paying them as a tax? >> it's a tax from an economic point of view. connell: yeah. >> i get what the president is saying. he wants us to have reciprocity with other country, if they have high tariffs on our automobiles for instance, his notion let's put tariffs on theirs, get both of us to lower the tariffs. that is a good thing. that is with regard to some negotiation the president take as tougher position ultimately with the objective getting tariffs down for both parties which helps our exporters. we do have the ability here in america now to make things with our new tax legislation, the new regulatory reforms that are in

place, things that he promoted it made america better place to do business. it made america better place to specifically manufacture something to export it abroad. connell: the other place, senator, where he has been aggressive recently at least is on the side of the automakers, really going after gm after that announcement about jobs being cut, plants being closed. i know you will meet with mary barra general motors chief executive officer i believe tomorrow. what is the goal from your point of view of that particular meeting? what would you like to accomplish? >> my goal is similar whats it has been, they closed down one shift and another shift left at lords town, hire, that produces the cruise vehicle. i understand the cruze is not selling well. that is market condition. this plant, award winning plant, got j.d. power award being effective and competitive why the plant can't continue to be used for other product.

not left's save the cruze, that is up to the consumer. let's bring in another product to be made there specifically. general motors is making over 20 new electric vehicles over next five years. connell: do you think she might be willing to bend on that? that you might be able to make progress on that front? >> we'll see, we'll see. as she told me she is hesitant to raise expectations that can't be met. she said she will keep an open mind. that is what i'm counting on, we had a great workforce there, great facility, great asset, huge community support and working together with state and local officials i hope the federal government can help her to make the right decision to bring electric vehicles to ohio. connell: how does the federal government help, senator? as republican you wouldn't be the first one lining up, perhaps your colleague in ohio, sherrod brown, a democrat would have different view on this but i would assume you wouldn't be necessarily disposed to be in favor of more subsidies or tax breaks for these companies so how does the federal government

help? >> we already helped general motors in a huge way. by the way we helped other u.s. manufacturers. we lowered the corporate tax rate to make our companies competitive so think make things here. we provided for immediate expensing. what you need to do to revamp a plant for another product. we have most competitive tax structure in those two areas. mexico has 30% tax rate for example. ours is 21%. connell: nothing additional? >> we also have electric vehicle credit very important to general motors. we can go either way on that whether we continue to help companies trying to compete with china and others. china is once again trying to corner the market on another product. they make half the electric vehicles now sold around the world. they decided to make that a priority for them. we need to be sure that america continues to be on cutting-edge of innovation and invention on electric vehicles. there are ways the if federal government can help.

not just tax abatements but we created a environment for success. that is what general motors should take advantage of by investing more in america. connell: thank you, senator portman. >> thanks for having me on. connell: we'll cover the meeting with ceo meeting senator portman and others on capitol hill. what is important today is the selloff. the stocks are down 545 points. more coverage right after this. .. the day after chemo shouldn't mean going back to

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connell: to break it is in the days or been a stop order down 2% or 570 points on the dow jones industrial average. 25 of the 30 dow stocks trading lower today. investors certainly remain skeptical or are skeptical today about the idea of a china trade deal, the rally we saw in place yesterday was about a short-lived as they come. the president was on twitter today and that certainly didn't help the market. we've also had the movement and treasury yields moving lower and when that happened, stocks further into the downside or to the downside. like berman first on the tweets of the president and everything else happening at the white house. connell: high, connell paired with a little bit bizarre with the marcus allah, you know, with other presidents to read a bit terrorist band. there might be potentially some good news on this front today coming out of china that relates

to their theft of intellectual property as you know for the trump administration is not the top of the list, at the very top of the list is trying to get china to crack down on ip theft making sure american companies can compete there because of the come in the r&d, et cetera isn't owned by the chinese government. today, china's national development and reform commission commend the institution over there outlined essentially what they declare or what they believe are ip theft violations, how they will be investigated. they laid out more than 30 different forms of punishment. for example, preventing individuals from buying real estate, preventing companies from using government land and restrict them the ability to fly. china says this implementation will begin immediately and it should be starting to be enforced by the end of the month. so far, no official response from the white house or the administration on this, but when

we heard from larry kudlow, one of the top economic advisers, of course a member of came as well also warned earlier today that if there is a trade deal with china and enforcement guarantee must be a part of that in the big question with ip theft of course when you're talking about it is how would you go about that. connell: that's the thing, if it sounds good in a dozen things in the market today that many people believe the chinese. kudlow to your point has been saying that over and over. we had to check what they're doing. >> he's been skeptical and somewhat takes yesterday. there is a lot of reasons why he is both skeptical and somewhat optimistic very optimistic for the fact they've made it this far appeared skeptical because of what the chinese have done instead over the last month and year spirit the reality is what we talked about yesterday which we'll talk about today, which we'll talk about for the next 86

days or 87 is potentially if there is still a window here is rather large and so a lot of items to get through. >> a lot has been made of the u.s. trade representative bob lighthizer been in charge of these negotiations. the guy in charge is the president. basically the message started off as we can make a deal will make a comment of the attention is going to the one tweet in the series, which is i am a terrorist man. nothing else out of the white house on that other than standing for itself i assume. >> you've been with the white house officials -- [inaudible conversations] the tweet stands for itself. i don't think we've even asked for comment per month on the streets. connell: the tweet dance for itself. thank you, blake. on that note the other thing happening at the white house, the global makers have been -- a

global automaker. john buzzelli joins us now from washington d.c. always good to see you. volkswagen, bmw, so they were friends heading the white house today to make their case and i just say no tariffs come in a. anything you can tell us in terms of progress? >> these companies you're talking about are indeed american companies as well as global companies. they are building thousands of vehicles in tennessee and alabama in their building not only for american consumers but for export around the world. that's where the trade issue is so important. this is about investment in the united states to make a more vibrant and thriving in the tree. that's what these discussions are about. connell: the trend were companies that are based in a country whether his toyota in kentucky, bmw in south carolina orifice general motors in china. that trend is making cars and

country is only going to expand given the current environment? >> yeah, i think you're right. companies like to build where they sell one year where they sell. it's good to be close to the customer to understand customer needs and wants and respond to those. it obviously makes sense to have a regional supply chain and continue to manage cost as long as you're in a competitive environment. we are making the united states and less competitive place to buy cars and trucks certainly true as steel and aluminum tariffs raising the cost of auto production here in the united dates. trying to explain to us, someone might listen and see if you can make the country come in the car and country that eliminates the terror of concern much more complicated than that. >> yeah, it really is. first of all as you pointed out, all these companies are global companies no matter where their headquarters is. that means they have global supply chains.

these tariffs are not only on the vehicles but on the auto parts. we don't want to put up walls that move innovation and investment in new technologies to auto markets around the world. we want to do that work here. more electric vehicles here. more automated vehicles here. it's important to create a vibrant environment that brings the investment to this country. connell: we talked to a lot of people in washington and you have to have some sort of a read on what is going on or what the presidents and goalies in all of this. is that his bias. is that where you start up that he wants to make some sort of a deal that would be good for free-trade. people would say this is good for true traitors -- free traders or say i'm a terrorist man number bringing in billions from these tariffs and basically that's how it has to be that's how it has to be. is that where he starts?

what's his philosophy on trade the best you can pick it up? >> that's a good question and i was a question and the administration. the concern here is there are significant issues in the trading relationship between the united states and china. we heard some of that in your previous reporting. we got to resolve those problems. the question is how do we do that. the talks are encouraging. a break in hostilities is a good thing but let's get a deal. let's move forward to american companies like the companies in south carolina, alabama and tennessee to export around the world. >> we've just been told by her team at the white house that the president will meet in person with the ceos of the three big german automakers that are there today including theodore thatcher who is apparently still the ceo. i believe is on its way out, but they are all bare. the president will meet with them in person.

john bozzella, good to meet with you. thank you for coming on. if you are missing with us last hour she waved in on the trade talks. >> the recent terror stonework is because because they end up harming companies, consumers and ultimately workers and i think we are seeing now with soybean farmers, auto producers, laying off 15,000 general motors. general motors estimates these tariffs on steel and aluminum have cost them an additional $1 billion on the bottom line. that means jobs. connell: economist brian wesbury joins us now. is she right? >> shia spray. however, we have to step back just a second. you look back over the last 20 or 30 years, what the united states did was we kept our corporate tax rates higher than just about every other developed country in the world.

we allowed countries like china, south korea, india, mexico to keep higher tariffs. we allowed them to grow. they exported their way to prosperity. right now we are in this massive change. there is no doubt we have cut our corporate tax rates kind of close to the average of the world. that brings investment back to the u.s. it stops pushing it overseas and were also fighting on the tariff thing china coming of exported your way to prosperity. it's time to grow up, bring tariffs down and be equal with us, reciprocal with us and that's what president trump is doing. it's messy getting there. we got used to this order of the way things were and now president trump is changing it. he says it's time for us to not subsidize the rest of the world and work on a friday. he's different than other

politicians. use the negotiator, a business guy. he sits across from the table and he is going to pound you until you give him a deal. i think that's what he's doing right now. investors get worried about this, companies get worried about this, but in the end if we can have an equal corporate tax rate around the world and reciprocal tariffs around the world, it is going to be a much better environment not just for the world, but especially for the u.s. economy. connell: one of the questions that is still out there and i'd be curious to get your view on it is what we were just talking about a few minutes ago. where does the president start on all this? going back 35 years plus we've are the same kind of thing. we don't hear that on every issue but we've heard it on this issue. very very very consistent on traits of people start to say he is at heart a protectionist. so he'll be okay with the world were kind of higher tariffs are here whether there per minute or here to stay that his ankle is

not as he said in the past, which is a zero tariff world. what's your view on that? >> this does worry me a little bit. even if we have reciprocal tariffs, if everybody went to zero tariffs, let's just say we do that. the u.s. still might have a trade deficit. what i would be worried about is that at that point the president still says that's bad. actually, trade deficits are bad. i have a trade deficit with my barber. i have the less of a trade deficit with my barber today than i did 25 years ago, but i have a trade deficit with the grocery store. trade deficit with my local restaurant. they don't buy anything for me. connell: he was using the wrong metric. >> i agree with that. that does scare me.

if we get to reciprocity and he is still a protectionist, then i get worried. i don't believe that the case. i know larry kudlow very well. he's a free trader. he's a reagan free trader. my believe -- i totally agree. i do believe if we get china -- you know, china is already cutting tariffs. connell: i want to stop you for one second. we have to take the commercial break here and you and i talked about that "after the bell" last time you were on. are they cutting tariffs on our products? >> they are. 1500 different goods. i do believe president trump tweeted that he and the president of china came to an agreement to get rid of auto tariffs into china. there is questions whether that is real or not. i think in the end china doesn't like to lose face. that is one thing we know for

sure. a lot of this is going to happen behind the scenes can be a little less clear. it's not going to be a big headline. the markets down 500-point today. everybody's out about it. the dow and the s&p are still up 2.5% this year. china is down almost 19%. europe is down 9%. the u.s. is outperforming the rest of the world and i get it. everybody's used to the market keep going up for nine years and now they're worried it's going to be ending. profits are still rising. pretax profits up 10% a year. they're going to do it again next year. that is what drives stocks. i'm still bullish. connell: as you know i love talking to you. i actually have to cut you off unfortunately. quick break. we'll be right back.

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my name is mike, i'm in product development at comcast. we're working to make things simple, easy and awesome. connell: the dow down six and a point spirit 587-point decline. the nasdaq is down 200. a big drop for the not back composite two by 7% talking about china being a big concern for many people out there. ceos would be included in

that. government officials gathering up "the wall street journal" ceo conference along with some of those ceos and edward lorenz. he is there with the latest. what's happening there today, edward? reporter: white house economic adviser larry kudlow spoke to the ceo saying they need to be realistic about trade with china. as you said "the wall street journal" ceo conference here. kudlow says he continues optimism here about the developments that came out of the meeting between president donald trump and president xi jinping at the g20 summit. >> it may not get done. it looks to me like the ball is being moved in the right direction much more than the past eight or nine months. but i can't sit appearance they were going to get the were going to get this command sms. >> about talking about protecting intellectual property from u.s. companies. he was asked for ceos to

change their supply chains to other countries in the region. he did not answer that question but said it would take a long time for changes to happen related to china going forward. the national security adviser john bolton said that the fact china agreed to buy more agriculture from the united states is not the goal of this relationship. >> we don't see the american future being a third world country supply natural resources and agricultural products to china. we need to see some major changes in their behavior. >> today china possibly as you heard may be acting on this. publishing an outline of what violators would be stealing intellectual property. 40 different punishments have been listed everything from barring trade to those companies who are possibly cutting off government money they give to those companies. back to you, connell.

connell: edward lorenz in washington. charlie gasparino in new york to react to some of that. [inaudible] >> either way nobody seems to believe -- they reminded me of macho man. here goes to show. as the mother talking about terrorists. >> there is literally zero thought. leather and orange hair. connell: a serious plan on not in the middle of saying i might make a deal. >> listen, the problem with the president is both sides of his brain. one side is peter navarro who want an lightheaded or just got appointed to run the negotiations with china. those are trade talks. a blunt force instrument.

i think it is hard of heart he does. and then a stocking also getting good advice from larry kudlow and steve mcgeechan icing. i like peter navarro. he's identified i believe to china as a threat. what i disagree with him is his approach and the heavy end up using trade like what tariffs on everything instead of let's focus on intellectual property. let's make sure we get other countries to prevent them from stealing their intellectual property, at least making theft of intellectual property or giving them intellectual property the right of passage to get access to their market. instead of doing not, he's doing something that will slow down the economy. i heard peter westbrook before talking about don't get freaked out by this. remember, markets you shouldn't get freaked out. the market is actually signaling something. signaling know-how potentially higher rates even though they're going to taper off.

the normalizing will be a lot less normal. connell: part of the way down to that. >> people are selling, buying treasuries and anticipating an economic slowdown. the other thing is your stimulus package may be has run its gamut in terms of stimulus and then you have a trade where potentially. when you put those together, the markets are signaling that is going to be really bad for the economy. it doesn't mean it's going to happen. so when people say don't freak out, that's not the argument. anybody that sits here, i'm going to tell you this, any analyst or anyone that sits here and says a trade war is good for your investment is full of it. >> the only argument is somehow -- as you know -- have the end of the day this is how it's going to make them come to the table and get a better result. connell: anyone who thinks that a tit-for-tat tariff war with

china will be good for markets and economy is strong. that's a mark of their businesses want. there's a reason why businesses give them intellectual property. why is that? i'm not saying it was right. they thought the endgame of access to the market was better for the economy. i'm just telling you. connell: they would make more money because there's a billion consumers. >> they would employ more people and theoretically stocks would go out. i'm telling you there was an economic rationale. not saying i agree with it. they are pernicious, but that said you have to realize an economic christ to pay. down 608 points as were talking. >> interesting to see how this all kind of shakes out. criticism of trump on the nafta styled and at the end of the day cut a deal. >> by the way, if you go through it line by line it wasn't that great for us either. certain things will hurt us. i'll tell you that's what i'm worried about what this.

markets are rational. yes, short-term they're perfect. because it doesn't reflect all the information. connell: that's a big part of it. in this case we have no idea. >> if you go this route, mr. president, one of your biggest achievements which was a stock market rally is in good economy. look at the dow from the time he did the tax cut last december until now has been flat amid this trade status. connell: is holding us back in markets at least. >> the economy could be slowing down. connell: the tariff man, charlie gasparino. apple downgraded again by hs b.c. stock today. another almost $7. the company is facing the reality of market saturation talking about by funds. we will be right back.

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to coast. i'm gerri willis life in the floor of the new york stock exchange. fill up on wall street accelerating here, just touching down 700 coming out to .75% on the broad index. the s&p down 78 points or to plan a percent. of course we had the nasdaq down pretty substantially as well. 3% or 234 points. let's take a look at the 10 year treasury yield. it is a quality going on here pushing yields on the 10 year treasury. financials down as well here. take a look at these banks talks. big selloff going in there. citigroup down 6%. jpmorgan chase, bank of america, other names, capital one downside point a percent. difficult day for financials as they -- under pressure today for a couple of reasons. the news about trade and china

obviously weighing on the company that relies on china as a customer for many in large proportions. downgrading the stock in what the analysts at its apple's hardware unit growth is broadly over for now. i am quoting his know it today on apple as we watch the selloff accelerated into the close here touching many, many sectors in the market place with the heavily reliant sales in china. a lot of talk here about what are the details of the deal with china that the president keeps on talking about. when will we get more details and comparing statements from different members of the administration about what they're saying. trying to find answers to these questions. back to you. thank you ashley webster with us now in the newsroom. this is something else. we were down, we knew that back a little bit yesterday that's one thing.

this thing has really picked up. some of the bond deals going down. stocks really started to selloff, too. >> it's interesting you have two big issues here. one is the trade deal with china and all the up msn is like is like we are talking, confident. they've gone out the window now because the 90 day discussion, the 90 day window began at the dinner in argentina and we have some tough negotiators and their and navarra mai tai is there another statements from china and u.s. kind of show the two sides are still negative for the market to believe wait a minute, does deal with china getting this done is a lot further away for further apart than we thought initially it could be. and in those fields. the difference between the tenure flattening is all very technical and again i feel like i would get the buzzer if i was on barney. it is an indicator of concerns about future economic growth.

you have algorithms these days and something crisis something and all of a sudden they pushed the sell button. connell: that is one of the larger point is they get past day moving average as we get on the long bond earlier today and then there's further selling from what we already saw. the table was set so to speak and not just kind of added to it. it is kind of interesting because then you have the president's tweet, too. when you guys run this morning the market guarded the selloff. he was basically saying i can make a deal here but if i don't i'm okay with these terrorists. >> is only the president can come he stated in such a way that three, four, five treats but it was barry's drawn. it was very pointed. it was like this instead. this is the way it's going to work out. we are hopeful that we'll negotiate strongly. as i said come in the statements we are getting from china just don't seem to gel as well. we did get some concessions on

intellectual property. the chinese with -- would publicly shame those found guilty of ip theft in china. connell: that was fine. nobody seemed to believe that. quit point and then we've got to go, ashley. is your blowing up on us? >> very quickly, we will see. macron it to the protesters. there are more planned for this weekend. by the way, teresa may have suffered three defeats, quick defeat in about seven hours today, which was not bode well next tuesday, one week from today. pmp is a british parliament today just voted that gives parliament the power to decide what happens next if the deal is voted down on december the 11th. a lot of confusion in the u.k. more protests possibly in

france. we'll have to wait and day. people are not happy in europe. that's for sure. thanks, buddy. the dow down 680. skepticism about china trade talking about a big part of this. former bush 43 deputy chief of staff karl rove is our next guest says were all of course remembering former president bush this week. it is kind of striking and maybe karl had this conversation about how a president negotiates with other countries. this president, president trump the current president is ashley was saying all over twitter this morning with a series of two weeks after the meeting he had in buenos aires over the weekend where he essentially says we started these negotiations and we can make a deal. but if not, quote, i'm a tariff man. we are now taking in billions in terrorist to make america rich again. investors didn't seem to like that but as a political tactic would you make of that?

>> lacombe investors didn't like it. in a day am not sure the american people like it because they are being in the form of higher prices in the good or by lost opportunities not been able to buy something they want for their family because it's become too expensive. diplomacy is better conduct did. if the president has a good day. it was clearly the reaction to the sense that there was going to be a truce, that they were going to work on this problem and the president could have reaffirmed to the chinese, look, i want to be clear with you about this for you enjoyed visiting with you in argentina and loved being with you in buenos aires in the spring of that country seasons. but if we can't get it in 90 days than i'm comfortable with the terrorists. do raise to 25% am happy to do

so. that delivered in private could have had the big impact he wanted with the chinese without having necessarily the negative impacts of the markets here at home. connell: this is the week as i said where we are so reflect it for obvious reasons have been mocked president bush. someone having been in politics for so long, how much of the party changed on this issue and how difficult is that for some republicans who have been, you know, talking about it in such a different way for so many years on the president's approach when it comes to trade. >> lacombe a lot of republicans are free traders. they recognize tariffs are taxes than the taxes are paid by americans, by the residents of the country putting the tariffs on, not by sending the good in. while there's a lot of concern if you want to think about this from a political perspective, one of the interesting things is from the right to the left there is a concern china is being

unfair in its practices, particularly when it comes to the theft of intellectual property in the current status quo can exist, can't continue. despite the understanding, there were different ways to get there. the president used a blunt tactic in the form of these tariffs. what's interesting is is also used a more subtle tactic. in march, the administration found an excellent brief before the world trade organization and a systematically taken apart of the intellectual practices. that's a better avenue to go. take a little bit longer to get to where you want to go, but this is where we'll have lots of allies say we agree with the united states. the germans in the french and breadth than everybody else do not like having their intellectual property stolen by the chinese, so there is a former we can win and not only when a temporary victory against china, but get clarity for the trading world's going forward regarding intellectual property. connell: the chinese say they will crack down on intellectual

property theft. whatever that is worth and it might not be worth much. the market is down 700 points for 700 pointed it out on 700 points. obviously more in that throughout the day. carl, one quick point on president bush. earlier this summer we have the video now that will show senator dole, senator bob dole pages respects at the capitol rotunda with this 95 years of age. of course a contemporary world war ii veteran who ran for president and even ran against president bush in the primary they sometimes have said someone who is a college but also arrival of president bush throughout the years. your own remembrances today as we watch the proceedings in washington. >> senator dole's visit to the capital is a reminder that these two men share something in common. they are part of the greatest generation. the men and women who is youngster is,, men and women in

their teens and early 20s literally save the world from nokia sent in as they came into middle-age, took up the fight again to defend freedom and defeat ultimately a soviet communism in what turned out to be a two generation struggle. these were people who had enormous courage, but also enormous character. they came home and rebuild our country, gave us the prosperity of the 50s in both of these men should have our gratitude and i thought it was a wonderful site to see one comrade, one political rival sometimes, but a political ally most of the time and more importantly a fellow comrade in the greatest struggle the world has ever seen come and pay his respects to his fallen friend. connell: what a moment that was. there will be so many moments tomorrow. it is not often that we do this. we haven't had many presidents in our history. it's something else to watch this week and i'm sure tomorrow will obviously be a special day.

>> 12 years ago was the last day we buried the president. tomorrow no likelihood there will be five former presidents who will be there at the national cathedral to honor president bush 41 and again that the very role moment -- where moment. a unique time. the sign of the civic religion we have of the great leader like this falls into parts us, that we gather together and remember him and remember more importantly the character and the values and the integrity for which he stood. connell: no doubt. karl rove, always good to see you. by the way, one thing about tomorrow the market will be closed. i don't know how much that means in terms of what is happening today or how much it plays into what's happening today. we are down 3% on the dow. this is a 780-point decline on the dow jones industrial average. from the washington freebie can, caitlyn allen from act! css

file. your reflections on what we see on wall street today. talk about this whole idea that we had some sort of a trade deal are moving in the right direction on trade over the weekend i was a one-day story if i've ever seen one. >> way. while waiting to see what happened on the g20 and that is where a lot of people expected they would sound optimistic about reaching a deal and i think everyone was very sick when you look at those truths that were going to stop the tears from increasing in january. of course now there is a lot of confusion and silver stocks going to tumble. it's kind of an overreaction because it's only been less than 24 hours since this truce was called. the truth i was an unraveled quite yet but it is a significant reaction we see in the market. connell: some of us has the technical background especially in the bond market as we talked about earlier the difference between a two year treasury yield on 10 year treasury yield

is getting lower and lower below 10 basis points that are titans in the yield curve, titans like that, there's concerned on the economy. that is the technical job. that is a two year. the 10 year we had earlier. the yields on treasury going lower. it is a concern about the economy. people are worried that next year as much as economic growth has been a story in 2018, a slowdown in growth not only in other countries might be a story in 2019 in trade tensions are a big part of that. there is a political reality they are. when you pick it up today? >> two things. first of all, talking about the economy, remember 2018 with the signing of the tax law, companies got a giant boost by that. we are going to see that stimulus fair enough. so much depends on what happens

with the building trade were. president trump made clear today that he does not intend to give china a pass. while we are here in the standoff with china, things could still be very tense. while we are having a 90 day relief from paris that doesn't mean we're never going to go into effect. connell: the reporters in terms of the president's mindset and philosophy on all of this now because basically what he's trying to do is the stuff on china as you can. this is what he believes he is a protectionist at heart. and that's the way we can win this. when his mood on all this someone you guys picking up? >> i can tell you trade is something that trump is very serious about.

there aren't a ton of policy areas where he isn't persuadable , the trade is one of them. he is focused on getting america first. he hates the gap in the trade deficit. he really wants us -- he wants to see these numbers change. i think he's just going to give up one day without getting some serious concessions from china. i don't know if that's very realistic. connell: i would agree with that. the investors whether he would be likely to cut some sort of a deal and i wonder whether as a politician because the president is of course with the united states, these market drops when he sees them that we had that before boyne sra is the marker was all jittery. he seems to make some progress and it bounces back on monday in the next day he comes out with tweets in there some questions about what's going to happen.

>> i think we did see some signs the president and the white house were concerned about the market. it's down lately this fall and i think he wants to still show a strength on this issue because that's caitlyn that this is one of his big issues he ran on. i think immigration was number one in trade was really number two and he thinks americo breitling in some ways has been very taken advantage of with bad trade deals. it's a crucial issue for him and with that deal, some people thought that this is just going to go away. he wants to still project strength on this and say hey wait a minute, china's not going to get away with everything and not have to change anything. he wants to still have that leverage thereby threatening the terrorists to come back in place. connell: i'd probably see arena on earlier. what would she do? she ran for president.

what would you do if it's not the tariffs, then why. try to make chinese companies play by our rules coming into the united states similar to how u.s. companies have to play by their rules when they go in there and go to the wto, the conflict that that we've heard about. it's not necessarily whether china is it fair or not. how do you go about bringing them to the table. if there's a message in the markets, and the message being sent, mr. president, the tariffs, that may not be the best way. what do you think? >> it remains to be seen. we shouldn't forget china's economy has suffered in part from these tariffs already. so it has been ineffective method to get other countries to the table.

certainly president trump likes to use. there's other avenues to go after china and that's what the market is worried about that were not going to take this other avenue. down 700 now. so that is the state of play. money map press chief strategist reflections, thoughts, concerns, comments. would he think of today? >> boy is probably a good place to start. connell: will go with that. i don't know if they all saw this coming. if you think about it, this week and we did million interviews going in and said what is the best case to come out of the g20 a lot set up will solve everything that if you put a framework in place. that was all right for about half a day. >> yeah, it is about half a day. there's an awful lot of details

saying the devil is in the details are to me this is all about program selling. the interest rates in the bond vigilantes as opposed to the dow vigilantes you're hearing about. connell: okay, explain that a little bit more. a big decline they are. what is the message in that decline by the way that an economic slowdown is coming. >> historically that is the case. traditionally a recession will fall. it's often years away after the signal happens. and this case is about long-term and short-term getting out of alignment. the sector this pressure is most of the banks, which drives the financial industry. that is what's really going on. financial sector saying we've got problems here. people are leaving into it and once again trying to get ahead of something they don't know for certain is happening.

in today's computerized market that's really the bugaboo because it means program selling comes in and lots of volatility. all the things i hope for aren't happening. connell: oscar really short temple question that may or may not have a simple answer. why today? >> i don't think there's been a good reason. it's all about psyche and emotion. for individual investors to do right now is take a deep breath believe it or not this stuff does blow over. the question is how you handle it in the meantime. the key is not to do anything rash. let the institutional trader do that to themselves. they have the lower hand on days like this are in a position of strength believe it or not. >> a good thing to remind ourselves over the long-term stocks go up. >> growth may slow. never in the history of time has it ever stopped and that is the

key. that's a take away. connell: what you think next year will look like? that is the concern and people have theories about how much growth will slow. what is yours? >> you know, i think it is still going to be there. we are going to have to be more selective and stick with good quality companies that are backed by consumer brands, must-have products. we will have to look to things the world can't live without. that is the spending that will not slow down. if you've got ceos driving the boat, they're already positioning for that. nevermind politics and nevermind china. ceos test with real money and this is where it takes faith in the market. a big leap of faith on days like today. history shows very clearly that the big ceos know exactly what they're doing and they will get through this to why you want to be with them, not necessarily the headline. connell: final point, should we be worried about how they're handling the negotiation today or are we making just way too

much of that part of it? >> you know, having spent a lot of time in the global market in asia in particular, helping those in exceptionally brilliant move. you don't want to bluster and to bluster and opponent has just come to the table. on the other hand i wasn't at the meeting so i don't know what exactly transpired that i didn't hear the language. to me not a brilliant move. connell: cute, always good to talk to you. we appreciate you hopping on the phone with us to the market down 700. 712 right now in the dow. a lot of the tech stocks getting hammered. financials have been very, very weak today and a lot of this in the interest rate sensitive world is being driven not only by the china concerns in the idea of some sort of a deal may or may not materialize after buenos aires this weekend but also to the point keith was making some of the algorithmic program trading markets in particular in the bond market that seem to trigger some points when they got below certain level interest rates and a 10 year yield now at 2.90%. so comfortably or maybe

depending on your point of view, uncomfortably below 3%. south carolina gop chairman dan had was with us next today. good to talk to you. you know, we have a lot of people voicing a lot of different concerns about what the economy might look like next year. is there anything you would tell them that would calm them down or you just as concerned? >> i am concerned, but i look at where we've come over the last couple of years. by and large this president has put america back to work and it kept us safe. connell: the idea of how he's negotiated nontrade here there's a big deal about his approach because he goes then and does what is a smart move and smart move and find themselves sometime in 90 days to negotiate the deal. if we can make a deal, and i want to make a comment xi jinping wants to make it.

he says were taking in billions in paris and that seemed to rattle some people. the president has usually come up on the short end. it's like a chess game and he's usually two or three moves ahead of you. this president knows how to negotiate. he's brought china to the table. connell: he has been at the table. how do you do at the chinese now? >> will see what happens in the next 1690 days. particularly in cyberand artificial intelligence. it's one of the greatest threats we've got right now and want in cyber. let me tell you, whoever wins this race will need the cyberwar.

and the major military conflict. connell: what is the best race, the most important of the races, why is the best way to win not in possession of tariffs? is there another way? >> terrace had been affected their as far as the chinese have been trying to steal intellectual property from u.s. companies. they've got all kinds of business schemes in place where they had some american companies to set up joint ventures with them. you lose the american market and then they take over the chinese market. i'm a big fan of dr. peter navarro and what he's done getting it to this point. connell: we have to convince a lot of wall street traders about that. >> the china threat is a very real threat to this country. connell: you know what's funny about that, a lot of people agree as we were talking about earlier it is how do we get from point a to point b.

like for example today china has a report coming out that they will crack down on intellectual property theft and put up a statement that as point after point after point and it just doesn't seem people reading that actually believe them. >> go back to prior administrations. did anything work in our dealing instead by the way, don't forget about the south china sea. 5 trillion tons of cargo go through there every year. it is vital. commerce through the south china sea is vital to the economy of the free world and the rep to all kinds of shenanigans down there. connell: always good to have you on. thanks for today. we'll wrap this up a little shorter than we'd like down at the new york stock exchange from t.j. i'm about what's happening today. take us through it in terms of what your . connell: what is happening intraday? >> we started out a little bit to the downside.

i don't think people were that upset by that, given we had a 6% move over the last six trading days. we were down a little bit less than 1%. then just a whole, collection of things started to hit the market that investors were a little bit unsettled by. some, a little bit after tweet storm from the president. connell: by the way the market didn't collapse, tank on that initially, tim. it went down a little from where it was. to say the dow was down, another 200, but another huge leg down started around noon or so, what happened there? >> right. i think what happened there was we had a number of tweets from the president on trade, showing an aggressive posture. we had some conflicting statements coming out of different administration officials as to, as to what the real next steps were, what china

had agreed to, what they hadn't agreed to. there were a number of reports about china's report on the dinner on saturday night being very different than the u.s. administration's report. connell: yes, yes. >> we had the story out of the uk that the may administration had been in contempt of parliament which is very unusual procedure. certainly somebody like ashley would have more insight on that than i would. you know, just, a number of negatives. in addition, there was report that some major bulge bracket firms, equity strategists were cutting their equity exposure to 50%. they could see a sharp selloff. connell: what about the close, tim, i wonder? we would ask ashley he is so distraught about the market selloff. he is already at the bar, otherwise we would ask him. [laughter]. the close, tim, almost at 2:00, we have couple hours to go,

what's the chatter down there? >> there is not much -- we don't really get real numbers on market on close imbalances until after 2:00. connell: okay, fair. >> so you know, look, is anybody's guess what that would be. clearly a lot of people looking at this as a buy opportunity. a number of points of uncertainty creating anxiety in the market, obviously the old saying, market can handle bad news, it just hates uncertainty. if people use this as buying opportunity. all of sudden, a billion or two billion to buy, you expect to recoup maybe a third of these losses. if the imbalance is the other way that will put a weight on the market. taking the perspective we had a 6% rally over the last six trading days, we're down 2 1/2 to 3%. so we're right in the middle of what lows had been a couple times over the last two months

and what the highs have been on three other occasions including yesterday, s&p 2800. connell: we're in quite, not just today, what we're seeing today is obviously volatile but we're in for quite a ride at least for the next 90 days? >> look, volatility if there is one thing new normal it is volatility. you know, the numbers are big and the market just throws these 1 1/2% moves around almost like it is commonplace. clearly interest rates not being near zero has an impact on that. you know, the story, 2 1/2 three years ago before we started raising rates, it had been six or eight months until we, we had a 1% move. connell: that's true. >> now we have them couple times a day. connell: got to wrap it up. tim, thanks for hopping on real

quick, short notice, tim anderson down at the new york stock exchange. we're down 660 on dow jones industrial average. i will see you at 4:00 with melissa. "after the bell" will cover the market close. from now a guy until then, a guy that knows the marketing on tick by tick basis, charles payne. charles: i know those ticks and drinking a shot. connell: you and ashley. charles: for the cold. i'm charles payne. this is "making money." stocks sharply lower as treasury yields decline. looks like sales program kicked in big time, meaning one program trips another and get us the real bloodbaths we're getting right now. investors react to the latest tweets from president trump, he says, i'm the tariff man. white house advisor peter navarro in one minute. all that and much more on "making money." ♪