whether that bears out or not, we don't know. you can see the decline on your screen. >> that is some drop. >> good news for the drivers out there. >> that's true. thanks for joining us today. >> bulls and bears starts now. >> hi everybody this is bulls and bears. thanks for joining us. i'm david asman. joining me is morgan, francis, stacey and steve. another wild day for markets with the dow closing down 507 points. we have now lost more than a thousand points over the past two trading days over concerns about global growth. the president once again putting the pressure on the federal reserve not to raise rates on wednesday tweeting out quote it is incredible that with a very strong dollar and virtually no inflation, the outside world blowing up around us, paris is burning and china way down, the

fed is even considering yet another interest rate hike. take the victory. i'm quoting the president here. joining us now from the white house the chairman of the council of economic advisors. kevin, great to see you. always a pleasure to see how optimistic and positive your face is in these things. you know, you said earlier on this network that there's about a 0% of a recession in 2019. but you've also said that markets are the best forward indicators we have. what are they forecasting right now? it's not good. >> well, i think that, you know, you nailed it in the intro, what's going on is that the european economy has slowed down significantly. china's economy has slowed down significantly. and u.s. multinationals get a lot of their revenue from other countries, you know, not quite half. and so i think the bad news relative to last spring that's had a big effect on markets in the fall and now, you know, heading into the winter has been that coordinated boom that we saw last spring is turning into

a kind of uniquely u.s. boom, and that's bad news for markets, but i think that what's going to happen is the u.s. will continue to chug along and the other countries are going to get their problems worked out and we'll return to kind of more coordinated global growth in the next year or two. >> kevin, steve forbes here. >> hey, steve. >> good to see you. the federal reserve has been signalling in the loudest way possible that this rate hike that may come in a couple of days, that's been out there in the markets for months. so what set the market down? it couldn't have been the fed, that news is almost old news. >> yeah, you know, i'd be as rich as you, steve, if i knew what was driving markets up and down. you know, i honestly think that you are right, that the futures markets have you look at the federal funds futures have had a pretty clear idea of what the fed was going to do, and, you know, so that can't be the thing that's moving markets. and i think that, you know, day-to-day movements are really hard to call, but if we look at the medium term, clearly the bad news for the global economy relative to last year is that

growth is a lot lower in europe and asia than we thought last spring, and that naturally would cause global markets to, you know, take a pause at least. >> kevin, this is morgan ortegas, what do you say to the critics who say that the president is being too forceful in his criticism of the fed chair? how do you answer that? >> you know, i think that people voted for president trump because they really longed for authenticity. they wanted a candidate who says what he thinks and, you know, doesn't go through focus groups before he, you know, interacts with the voters. and i wouldn't advise the president to change his style, but, you know, we respect the independence of the fed, look at the caliber of the people that the president has appointed, and, you know, i understand that the president has a strong opinion here, but that's really what the president supporters expect of him. >> kevin, it is robert wolf. nice to see you. >> thank you. >> so we're talking a lot about a government shutdown over the last 24 hours, 48 hours, and the market has had significant down trade based i think a lot has to

do with the possibility of a shutdown, going into christmas week. you know, what's your view of this? it feels like we're at an impasse here. i know there's some rumors of a deal, but it feels to me kind of being on the other side, it feels like we're at an impasse. how does that move? why wouldn't we just put a two-week resolution in place so we can get through at least the holiday season? >> right, you know, to be clear, i'm not involved in the negotiations there, and you're right, government shutdowns have historically had a negative impact on markets at least in the short run. it's something that there's academic literature on. i expect in the end it is all going to work out somehow, it always does. exactly what's going on right at the moment, imo'm not involved the negotiations. >> i haven't heard anything from the white house specifically on the balance sheet reduction. and i know that trump has commented a lot on interest rates, obviously reducing the

liquidity and unwinding quantitative easing is an unprecedented thing, trump has been keeping things very liquid with fiscal stimulus. what's the discussion around the balance sheet reduction and the fed and what trump expects? >> again, i have to respect the independence of the fed. they have made the decision to do that, and i think that, you know, if we abstract from the current decision that we're going to see this week and the current movements, i think that what we've delivered with president trump's policies is the old normal, not the new normal. we have wage growth that's back up to levels we haven't seen in a couple of decades. that old normal is something i think will have an impact on financial markets too. in the end, we ought to be able to move back to normal everything normal policy because we have a normal economy. against that backdrop, imagine if you look at all of the difficult monetary policy management that was given to chairman powell, if you can imagine, if he gets all of that stuff fixed, and the economy continues to hum along at 3%, then you will have to say that

that's really quite a combined policy accomplishment for everybody in washington; right? i mean no one would have expected that it could go that smoothly. david: kevin, i have to ask about trade. in addition to the worldwide slowdown, looking at what's happened in france and germany, they have to answer to their own policies, but there are very strong indications that the tariffs and other trade policies initiated here are slowing down world growth, particularly when it comes to supply chains. these supply chains around the world have tang sometimes -- have taken sometimes decades to arrange. isn't that at least partially responsible for the global slowdown? >> i think that if you look at -- let's take the case of china, you know, last year, we documented and i'm sure you guys on the show have talked a lot about the fact that china is actually stealing a lot of our intellectual property -- david: understood, but this is beyond that. this is in terms of the supply chain.

>> let me just finish. so president trump has taken a strong stand against china and it's certainly been disruptive for chinese markets, and even investments in china because people are worried about u.s. tariffs on their production over there that they might have planned to ship back here, but the end game is trade reform. the endgame is that china lowers its tariffs on our products and lowers its barriers and allows our firms to have access to the markets without transferring their intellectual property to them. that's a big plus for markets, if we accomplish it. you would have to admit that without the tariff move that the president made, then there would be zero chance of getting china to reform, but now the chinese economy is slowing. chinese markets are down an enormous amount. and the chinese are at the table. and we're very very hopeful. we're hearing good things about the negotiations. we're hopeful that we will make a lot of progress that will be good for their economy and our economy too. >> kevin, i'm all in support of us making sure we protect our intellectual property. as you know, i was a supporter of tpp. i think it should be brought back on the table.

no one can tell me china slowing or china markets down is good for the global economy. i'm a little confused on that. our market is down 12% since this all began. we're down for the year. so it hasn't been good for us as well. i'd also like to hear your views of a strong dollar. considering we're very low on exports, manufacturing slowing, that can't be too good for us as well. i know the president tweeted about success of the strong dollar. so i would love to hear your views on that. >> really what i'm saying is if you go back to our estimate from last year, let's just say, i will pick a number, china, if they are stealing 500 billion dollars a year in ip from the u.s., that's a heck of a lot of benefit we can have; right, from getting a new deal with china. for sure, there's been turmoil in china, especially because of our, you know, desire to change the game. and that turmoil has been bad for their markets, but it's it's showing them that president trump is really serious.

if we move towards the better world where their markets are open to us and their tariffs are zero and we reciprocate, then that will be good for everybody. that's the sense in which you know i think i was making the point that for sure there's some disruption now, but the old status quo was unacceptable really to american voters and to the american president. >> kevin, let's say the u.s. economy does well next year, the trade thing gets resolved and everyone is happy, what do you do about the federal reserve still holding to that obsolete belief that prosperity causes inflation, the old phillips curve, you know, that prosperity is bad for us, people get heated up if they make too much money? how do you get the fed to realize that's an unreal world they live in? >> well, you know, again, i want to respect their independence. let's talk about economists; right? so the problem is if you've -- you know, too much committed, to keynesian then you think the ebb

and flow of the economy comes from demand side. the phillips curve describes inflation pretty well. what's happened this year, this goes back to something that steve forbes has been talking about for decades we've had a big supply side tax cut and that increase in supply has put pressure on prices so we have a boom without inflation. that kind of thing can happen from the supply side but not the demand side. >> do you think the federal reserve is going to -- can you re-educate them? [laughter] >> i'm not going to respond to that. [laughter] >> this phillips curve -- there's a trade off between inflation and unemployment, that's nonsense. how do you get them off of that? >> it is sometimes true. again, like if we had just spent a trillion dollars on cash for clunkers or something, then we'd have maybe more economic growth in the short run and inflation. it is possible to be in a phillips curve world, but we're not in that world right now. >> i feel for you. this is morgan. i understand the treasury is

totally different. i want to pick your brain on something totally different. the administration hasn't been vocal about this. the chairman has always had a positive opinion. we know they fluctuated wildly this year. does the administration have a position on that and their development? >> there's been policy meetings and discussions on crypto-currencies and people are watching them. right at the moment we don't have a decision on those currencies to announce. >> okay. >> we're following it closely >> what's the white house's opinion on the market volatility? i know that trump is largely blaming the fed. and the fed is largely blaming trump and saying that trade is creating chaos. we know the liquidity in the system is a leading indicator what's trump's viewpoint on the recent volatility and particularly if we take out these technical lows that we're sitting on here?

>> again, the president speaks for himself and it is something that you guys see practically every day. you know, he talks about these things. i think that in the end, the day-to-day movements are really hard for economists to predict. but in the end, what happens is if you have economic growth and earnings growth and then dividend growth, then you have very strong equity markets, and the economic growth in the u.s. is very very strong. but in the rest of the world, it is not. and i think that if you look at the change in the earnings outlook that comes from slower growth in europe and china, then you would expect the market to be flat this year. >> we have a news flash from you. the president speaks for himself. [laughter] >> thanks for being here. >> thank. >> merry christmas. >> a federal judge ruling obama care unconstitutional. could that ruling backfire on republicans?

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david: a federal judge in texas ruling obama care unconstitutional because of a recent change in federal law. but the "wall street journal"'s editorial board calling the decision a quote blunder that could backfire on republicans as democrats prepare to fight this all the way to the supreme court. joining us now is arizona attorney general who is representing one of the 20 states that joined the lawsuit challenging the obama care law. general, good to have you here. general, even those who don't like obama care have gotten used -- or accustomed to certain parts of it. what would you tell americans who have grown accustomed to insurance for preexisting conditions who are now worried about losing it? >> well, first and foremost, this challenge was based on constitutional grounds, and i'm a lawyer. so we want to talk about the law. we want to talk about the constitution. i will make you a very strong argument that after 2017, this was unconstitutional. nothing, nothing about this

decision prevents anyone, whether it's congress or whether it's individual states from passing laws to protect those with preexisting seasons. -- preexisting conditions. i'm on record saying that i think congress should do its job or state legislature should do their job to make sure those protections are in place to make sure people know that's not going to change. let's not forget, when obama care passed, we were promised that if we liked our doctor, we could keep her. that didn't happen. our premiums have skyrocketed. a lot of small business owners are paying tens of thousands of dollars in addition to premiums. there were a lot of promises made that weren't kept. i think if you summarize this, we have a law that's not working in reality, and you have a bunch of people in the media or congress on the left that are trying to figure out if they can prove it a working theory. >> general, we thank you for saying that you are a supportive of preexisting conditions.

i look forward to hearing more of that, but we just had the mid terms, whether people think there's a blue wave or not, it was 40 congressional seats, seven governorships, 350 in legislation, and certainly in arizona, incoming senator beat mcsally and the number one concern was healthcare, which it seemed like most voters brought the senator to it. it seems that arizona spoke as did the country. how do you square the circle on that with respect to where you stand for arizona? >> well, ironically i was on the ballot as well, and the california bay area billionaire tom styier spent nearly 6 million dollars attacking me, and i'm pleased to report not only did i win but i got more

votes. if you want to use that kind of logic, i think what arizona voters said is they are willing to trust hardworking elected officials that are going to protect hardworking arizona taxpayers. we here in arizona have a great tradition of being very skeptical of the federal government. i mean, the reality is that historically especially in the last couple of decades, washington, d.c. has been where good ideas go to die. we all know whether it's border security, whether it's healthcare, nothing seems to get done. there's a lot of name calling. i think as justice brandeis once staid, the states are the 50 laboratories of democracy. i think a lot of this, just what happened in the 90s with welfare reform, it is up to the states to come up with creative and market solutions to address these issues like healthcare and even the environment. >> general, this is steve forbes here. speculate why the g.o.p., knowing this issue is coming up, you make a good point, this is a constitutional issue, so you're right to fight it on those grounds. but why didn't they deal with this issue before the campaign instead of letting the democrats

hammer them over the head? why didn't -- you work with these candidates. what was going through their heads? they think people wouldn't notice that there might be a change if the democrats were hitting them hard on the issue? i don't get it. >> steve, i don't get it either. i think part of the problem is that, you know, i always say i'm a prosecutor, not a politician. and part of the problem is i think -- >> -- should prosecute the g.o.p. for stupidity. [laughter] >> as i said, i think congress is where good ideas go to die. i think what's happened is you have quite frankly a permanent political class in washington, d.c., and, you know, earlier in my career, i was never a big fan of term limits, but i am now. i think what's happened is as you get a bunch of people on the right or the left that have a permanent interest in their own reelections. there's no need to compromise or move forward on any issues, and they are constantly kicking the can down the road.

there's quite frankly a vacuum in leadership. steve, i agree with you 100%. i'm not a policymaker. i'm a constitutional lawyer, but i i do this it is incumbent -- think it is incumbent on republicans in congress to come up with solutions and get stuff done. i think going back to the previous question, that's part of the reason why there was so much frustration and angst. people look at what's going on and they don't like it. and so if you're going to be the party of small government. if you're going to be the party of, you know, classic economic theory and, you know, libertarian or liberal ideas when it comes to the economy, that means you've got to do something. that means you've got to fight for lower taxes, for less regulation, for limited government and you have to come up with market solutions. i mean, you know, the reality is that we've heard since even the 2016 campaign, you know, republicans talking about doing more to make sure this is a more competitive market. >> sounds like you need to run for the senate next time. >> the reason why the

republicans didn't do anything about it is because they had no plan clearly. the only thing i think that is still viable on the table is perhaps a graham cassidy bill that came out halfway through this debate. you talk about states being able to have solutions. is there a state solution in arizona that you are advocating? >> well, i always say i'm not the policymaker, but i will be the first person to step up that i believe very strongly if our legislature and governor proposed legislation that would protect those with preexisting conditions, i would be the first person in line. i think that's very important. i also think it is incumbent on our congressional delegation to do things to make sure there's as much competition as possible, to work on issues like health savings accounts. we have heard people talk about these things, but not enough is being done to advance those ideas forward. i'm not a policymaker, and so you know, as a republican, i'm not here to defend the republican party either because quite frankly i'm very disappointed to say the least. i guess i can't use even harsher language of what those guys are

doing. stuff isn't getting done in washington. >> i love this guy. i'm going to quote him. >> what do you -- >> go ahead. >> thank you. what do you say to the ocasio cortezes who say we have to have united healthcare. what do you say to the economy, to the business cycle? what do you say to these people when they want the ideology and maybe we can't afford it? >> comrade, welcome, but, you know, all kidding aside, what i would tell her is that look, i think i agree with her in the sense that this is a great country. it's a very prosperous country. and we should have elected officials in washington, d.c. and a president that could figure out how to deliver goods and services when it comes to healthcare industry in a free market kind of way. as i started to say, one of the

things that not a lot of people are talking about, the republicans have talked about in the past, is legislative reform. we know there's a lot of doctors out there, practicing defensive medicine. that has an impact on insurance costs. david: it wasn't touched in obama care. we know that very well. general, i have to say, you have won at least on term limits, hearing from a democrat over here, so congratulations. >> that made a lot of sense. >> i appreciate you being here, general. thank you very much. getting heated in switzerland today with the led of the world trade organization and other -- with the head of the world trade organization and other nations for blasting the u.s. for causing what he calls a deep global trade crisis. but shouldn't we all be uniting against china? we will debate that, coming next. ♪

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chinese disagree -- except the chinese disagree with that. why are the european diplomats at the wto joining with the chinese in condemning the u.s. for our trading practices? shouldn't the world be uniting against the violator in chief which are the chinese communists? >> i would hope so. trump is the ultimate disruptor, right,? what he's trying to do in enforcing reform at the wto especially relating to the dispute settlement process is uncomfortable for everyone involved the chinese and europea europeans. he's done it not only in washington, but he's doing it at the u.n., the wto where he's saying this has not worked for decades. i'm going to force change, and i'm going to do it -- listen, he does it with a hammer; right? it's not very comfortable. it makes people angry. that's his style. but he feels he needs to break all the glass in order to reform the institutions. the europeans have made progress with the u.s. as it relates to

bilateral trade with us, but it is not surprising to me that some in europe are upset with the president for messing up the system that they are comfortable with. >> yeah, i agree with you, morgan. frances newton stacy here. i think though the most interesting thing is you have a couple of things going on with trump. first of all, his voter base are some of these displaced manufacturers when manufacturing moved over to china. i think a lot of things people don't consider whether they're pro, free trade or global trade or not is there's a lot of displacement that occurs and there are some unintended consequences. i think the trump administration says well look the u.s. has always gotten the short end of the stick because we've always over compensated and paid for everybody worldwide and he's kind of firing up that voter base. any time you want to change the status quo, you're going to have some chaos occur. i think overall he's doing a great thing. however he also has to point on this point because the fed is saying look some of this trade noise is going to cause the

markets to go down and cause economic sort of chaos and he's saying the fed is creating this. so he has a point to prove here. >> the fact of the matter is, though in terms of job loss, some of it is due to trade, but most of it is due to technological change. i come from the print industry. i can testify to that. in terms of what you do about chinese trade abuses, why do we put taxes on ourselves? a tariff is a sales tax. so we're hurting ourselves. why don't we do what we did by arresting that cfo in canada or taking after cte which we almost put down a couple of months ago -- >> david: you have no problem with that? >> pick a couple of situations where our europeans would be with us because they suffer from some of these trade abuses. you pick a company or a bank or something and you hit them hard, that gets attention without hurting american businesses. >> i know where you are on trade, steve. do you also have a problem with the administration forcing these reforms at the wto? i mean can't you be sort of for free trade and also for reform

at the same time? >> what reforms does he want? at the wto we win 85% of the cases that we bring there. so if he wants to reform it, say you've got to bring to it the digital age, we did that in 90s when we got rid of that general agreement tariffs and trade in world war ii. reform in the 90s. reform in the digital age. he did not put something out there saying in the digital age this is what we should do. instead it was we're going to put tariffs on. we're hurting ourselves. i think his diagnosis is good but the medicine is hurting us almost as much as it hurts -- >> just to answer frances, but i agree with steve. there's a big difference between politics and policy. the policy of tariffs is not a good policy because it hits us the most, and we're 75% consumer nation. so it is a tax to us. with respect to policy and china, we should be going after them for criminal espionage. they are stealing our patents --

david: haven't we been doing that for decades? and we have been trying -- >> we have not. go ahead. >> -- in a serious way where yes don't do that, but they never suffered consequences for the misbehavior. >> the ftc can implement regulation, okay, that enforces criminal espionage. you can also have ip compliance, okay, so if we're selling fake goods, then that person selling them here also is noncompliant. there are ways to get around this that is not about tariffs. david: let me ask you about the wto because here is an international organization. we have seen far too many, steve, you and i have talked about the imf and the world bank all these international organizations, is what the wto has become? >> no, the wto is one organization that hasn't gone the way of the imf, the world bank who should go to north korea and the imf -- [laughter] >> but if terms of wto -- but in

terms of wto, because of technology, we need a new system to judge these things, these abuses and bring real penalties more quickly, fine, put it on the table, but in the meantime, you take a chinese bank that's engaged in laundering, we know who they are, and you kick them out what they call the swift system which means they can't operate internationally, that sends a real message. david: got to be the last word on the subject. iconic tech journalist announcing today he's quitting facebook. why he says he will no longer be using that site or any of its platforms. details coming next. the hard work you put into lowering your

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david: well, the iconic tech journalist walt mossberg making this announcement on twitter today, quote, some personal news, i've decided to quit facebook around the end of the year. i'm doing this after being on facebook for nearly 12 years because my own values and the policies and actions of facebook

have diverged to the point where i'm no longer comfortable there. mossberg added that he will also be quitting facebook-owned instagram and messenger, but he's going to remain on twitter, e-mail, i-message and sms. you have one of the biggest names covering tech, and he is dropping facebook. how bad is this for the social network? >> this is actually devastating and i think -- frances stacy here, i think trust is the key. there are so many competitors for social media. once these bigger guys come in and they say look, we're not doing it anymore, so many people are going to follow their lead because if these people who are in the know, who know tech, don't trust facebook, don't trust their ideology anymore, that is a real threat, and i think that these large companies are not infallible, and that this is the way that you create change and let these companies know that they have to respect basically their consumers which is the basis for all their revenue. >> i hate to totally disagree

with the other woman on the panel, but i totally disagree with you, francis, and here's why. i don't think the average american knows who walt mossberg is. i didn't know who he was until about two hours ago, in fact. i think when you look at the average american, they are using facebook because their family and friends on facebook. growth has stalled. users on facebook hasn't declined. 2 1/2 billion users, i think it is somewhere in there worldwide. i think what americans should be much more concerned about than a few of their selfies being stolen is the fact that companies like marriott, with their data breaches you are getting your credit card, your address, your phone number, your family information stolen. that's far more dangerous to your private security than, you know, your selfie with your grandma. david: by the way, a note to millennials, walt mossberg has a lot of influence with older tech junkies like myself. he used to explain tech for dummies like me. that's who he is. steve? >> i feel like i'm in jurassic

park right now. [laughter] >> what is astonishing about this, so to speak, including facebook, is how politically dead they are in the head. in the old days, at&t, before the breakup in the early 80s went out of its way to advertise in every newspaper, make sure every politician was happy, have the best service, when these problems would come up like discriminating against the conservatives or the like, they would respond quickly. and these people don't. they have this sort of arrogance, and so they take on a lot of political heat. so it's not moss berg that's a threat. -- it's not mossberg that's a threat, it's uninformed political regulation. >> when congress thinks about should we be regulating facebook like a media company and you have someone like walt saying he's not comfortable. it has to put antennas in the minds of washington. >> i don't think it's good for

facebook. how to avoid a partial government shutdown. we're going to ask the house budget committee why it is coming down to the wire and where things stand. that's next. and while your pants struggle to support the heavier you, your roof struggles to support the heavier me. [laughter] whoo. [crash] and your cut-rate insurance might not pay for this. so get allstate, you could save money and be better protected from mayhem like me. mayhem is everywhere. so get an allstate agent. are you in good hands?

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david: a shutdown stand off just days left now until a potential partial shutdown could go into

effect if democrats and white house can't make a deal over border wall funding. but will the president's incoming chief of staff mick mulvaney who pushed for a government shutdown over obama care in 2013 make a shutdown for likely? joining us now is indiana republican congressman house budget committee vice chair. good to see you. mick mulvaney was known as the leader of the quote shutdown caucus, that's what a lot of critics called him. there is some indication that he will be more encouraging of a shutdown if the democrats don't compromise with the president than his predecessor general kelly was. what do you think? >> well, i tell you, i know mick mulvaney, he's a good friend. we served on the budget committee together. the shutdown caucus wasn't so much that. we had some reasonable expectations just like we have now. he is in a different role and he will do what's best for the country. but i'm telling you, this is real simple. it's about whether republicans and democrats, all of us, want to put the interests of our own

constituents, our own citizens above the interests of the illegal aliens. it's just about that. and for the life of me, we have politicians, mostly democrats, even some republicans, who are saying no, i'm for the illegal aliens. it's just wrong. budgets are about priorities. it's come to a point where this is the priority. if we can't make protecting our citizens, our voters, our taxpayers the priority, then frankly nothing else should be a priority. >> congressman, steve -- >> and therefore a shutdown. >> steve forbes here. what would be a good compromise? splitting the difference on the wall? doing something for the dreamers? democrats get the dreamers. we get the wall, something like that in the works? >> no, i don't think -- this is about border security. we shouldn't even have to bring dreamers into this. first of all, we've already compromised. you know, the wall cost 25 billion dollars. what the president has asked for and i think he's being

reasonable about it he says just give me the money i need to work on it for this fiscal year, the length of the spending bill we're talking about here. that's about 5 billion dollars. there's already, steve, been incredible movement and i think a very reasonable request that i fully support. >> so congressman, last year there was a billion that was given to the wall. and that hasn't been spent yet. so you would be willing to shut down the government. you would vote to shut down if you didn't get 5 billion dollars? >> well, i will tell you, because i'm a logical person, you know, i'm hearing news that there's negotiations going back and forth, maybe it's 2 1/2, maybe it's this, maybe it's that, maybe there's some sensors we add in, if it moves the ball forward, i'm going to be supportive of it. we're quibbling about what in budget terms quite honestly and i'm doing this respectfully because individually it is a ton of money i understand that but from budget terms it is this much difference.

i mean, it is nothing. >> right, it is like 5 on 850 or something. >> right, and just because that amount wasn't spent last year, there's a lot of setting up. there's a lot of studying. we don't want to do this twice; right? we want to get it right the first time. there's going to be an increase in the amount of money needed every fiscal year going forward. that's where i think the 5 billion makes a lot of sense. at the end of the day, if it is meaningful movement forward in protecting our borders, border security, the idea we're a sovereign nation. i mean every other nation on the face of the earth is allowed to have its borders. why can't we? it is not an unreasonable request. >> this is morgan ortegas. the president has indicated if he doesn't get the funding he wants for the wall in this budgetary process that he could potentially use some of the budget from the military? is that legal, can he do that? where would the military play into this? which part of the military

budget would go towards wall funding? >> i can tell you because this is an emergency situation, we have a caravan of thousands of people who are crashing our borders. by the way, the reason they are doing it is because the borders are relatively open. if we had a strong border wall system, they wouldn't be so encouraged to come. these children -- the parents wouldn't be so encouraged to drag their children through the deserts and along these hundreds, maybe thousands of miles like they have been, putting them in danger. the most humane thing to do is to have a border wall. because this is an emergency, yes, the military is authorized, the commander-in-chief can use the military to do this. what particular part of the military budget it would come from, i don't know that off the top of my head, but it's there. it's there. i mean, the reason for the military is to protect our borders. i think they could be used to do that in this situation. >> has the white house, congressman, made very clear to pelosi and schumer that they will shut the government down? republicans before have shied away because they felt well they

always lose these battles, the media beats them up. is the president this time just going to say the heck with it, we're shutting it down? >> well, you know, talk to the president just one time, see him on tv one time, go to one of his rallies, and there's no doubt, however you feel about him personally, there is no doubt that he loves this country and is putting america first. he's putting the citizens of this country first. i fully support that. let me tell you, it is a great question, this is unlike other shutdowns that mick and i and others have been a part of because guess what? nearly 80% of the government is already funded. we've got 5 of our 12 bills done already. this is not going to affect the military. this is not going to affect -- excuse me, our troops. this is not going to affect our veterans. health and human services programs have already been funded. so we really have deleveraged the open borders crowd on this -- david: we should mention by the way in every other shutdown, every penny has been paid to the people who were supposed to get a paycheck eventually. congressman, i'm sorry to do this, we have to leave it at

that. we have other news. we appreciate you coming on. we have new developments on les moonves, the late breaking details just coming in. we will share them with you, when we come back. eir clients cookie cutter portfolios. fisher investments tailors portfolios to your goals and needs. some only call when they have something to sell. fisher calls regularly so you stay informed. and while some advisors are happy to earn commissions whether you do well or not. fisher investments fees are structured so we do better when you do better. maybe that's why most of our clients come from other money managers. fisher investments. clearly better money management.

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david: cbs says it will not may les moonves any of his $120 million severance package after

reviewing the result of an investigation that he assaulted multiple women over the years. they say he breached his employment contract and intentionally refused to cooperate fully with the investigation. $120 million. if that doesn't send a message, nothing will. >> assault is a serious investigation. i assume they were able to back up the assault accusations. they better be able to because i'm sure mr. moon versus will be coming after them for this finding. it sends a clear message for what you will and will not tolerate in the workplace. >> i think this sets a

completely new standard for media going forward. i think these guys if they messed up or have taken advantage of their positions of power. i know media corporations don't want to be making them wealthier when it cost them a lot in terms of reputation. >> offices now have open space. we have it at forbes. maybe we should have that in hollywood and ban couches. i think this was a tough day for any ceo or chairman who lives in that gray area. i'm sure they are look at this legal and speaking to their executives and legal counsel to make sure there is a fine hard line between right and wrong. david: hasn't the gray area shrunk? >> warren buffet said when he came in to help us, he said if you won't like it on the front

page of the paper, don't do it. >> that's a great standard. david: are there any more casting couches in america? has hollywood changed its ways for good? >> it's like saying racism no longer exists in america because president obama was elected. but by know means does it mean women will not experience sexual harassment in the workplace ever again. that's not where we are as a society. but we are continually evolving and bettering ourselves. >> it's like what jefferson said about eternal vigilance. if you want freedom and decorum, you have to fight for it. david: isn't it just a matter of common decency, being a

gentleman and gentle woman in the office place? >> yes. david: that does it for "bulls and bears." we'll see you again next time. >> the president said he would shut down the government to increase funding for border security. >> i want to be chris tall clear, there will be no additional appropriations to pay for the border wall. >> at the end of the day there will be ways we need to insure we get to the over $25 billion for overall border security. >> it's done. >> president trump has been focused on protecting american communities. that's what we'll look at while the democrats continue to push forward an open border agenda. liz: pr